Transcript
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Hey there, this is James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media and one
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of the cohosts of the show.
For the last year and a half I've
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been working on my very first book. In it I share the three part
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framework we've used as the foundation for
our growth here at sweetfish. Now there
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are lots of companies that have raised
a bunch of money and have grown insanely
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fast. We've talked to a lot
of them on the show. We've decided
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to bootstrap our business, which usually
equates to really slow growth, but using
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the strategy outlined in the book,
we're on pace to be one of inks
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fastest growing companies in two thousand and
twenty. The book is called content based
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networking, how to instantly connect with
anyone you want to know. I'm thrilled
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to tell you that the book has
officially launched. If you're a fan of
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audio books like me, you can
find the book on audible, or if
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you like physical books, you can
find it on Amazon. Just search content
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based networking or James Carberry. That's
car be aary in audible or Amazon and
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it should pop right up. If
you're listening to this between January seven and
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January ten, you can snag the
kindle version of the book for just ninety
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nine cents. All right, let's
get into the show. Welcome back to
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be to be growth. I'm Logan
lyles with sweet fish media. Today is
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another episode in our hy podcast work
series where we're talking to be tob marketers
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that are using a podcast as part
of their content, marketing and thought leadership
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efforts. For there be to be
brand. We're actually joined by a repeat
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guest, Rebecca Kelly Jiras. She's
the VP of sales and marketing over at
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pragmatic institute. We had her back
on episode one thousand one hundred and twenty
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seven, talking about what marketers wish
they could say to their CEOS. As
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a great one. You should go
back and check the show notes for that
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episode if you want to check it
out. Today we're going to be talking
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to Rebecca about her role as the
host of the pragmatic live podcast. Rebecca,
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welcome back to the show. Thanks, log going to thrill to be
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here. Awesome. We are going
to be talking a little bit about your
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podcast journey. You guys have been
doing a a regular show for some time
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and we're going to talk about what
the show is, who it serves and
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what your experience has been like.
For folks who haven't heard you before on
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the show, give us a little
background on yourself and the team at pragmatic
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institute to kick things off today.
Thanks, Logan. So I have been
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in marketing and product marketing my entire
career and most of that career I have
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spent in the technology space. Back
in two thousand and five, the company
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I was working at, we were
growing very rapidly and it was clear that
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we needed to evolve our product in
our product offerings, and we didn't have
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a lot of clarity on the best
way of do that. So I thought,
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you know what, we need a
product management team. Let me start
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a product management team. The CEO
was all in and I thought, yeah,
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this is great, and then I
thought I'm not entirely sure how to
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do that. I should go to
a training and I did and I went
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to this amazing training and absolutely changed
the trajectory of my career both within the
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Cup News in and then as I
left. Moving forward. Turns out,
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and in a wonderful moment of kisnt
six years later, that company was hiring
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for the someone to lead their marketing
group, and so that's right. So
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I met pragmatic institute. This is
what we do. We teach companies how
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to build and market products that people
love and that they buy, and to
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do this in a way that is
far more predictable and dependable than we often
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see. We see a lot of
you know, it's like ninety two percent
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of new products fail, and that's
across startups and large company. So making
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sure that you're doing the right thing
for the right people at the right time
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is really, really important and we
are passionate about teaching people that and that's
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what we do. Awesome, Rebecca, I love it. So, as
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we move on in your story,
after you were at pragmatic institute for a
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while, at some point you guys
decided to start your own podcast. Can
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you tell us a little bit about
the show that you guys have now,
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your role as a host and kind
of the journey to getting there? What
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made you guys want to start a
podcast as part of your own marketing efforts?
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solutely so. Our show is called
pragmatic life and what we do is
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collect stories from product marketers and product
management professionals about their journeys throughout their careers,
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right from when they started to tips
and tools that they can share with
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people, how they've implemented what we've
trained them, the problems that they've encountered,
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the solutions they've come up with,
and we let them kind of share
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their passion and share their story and
then we send it out to the audience.
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That that's our goal, right as
how do I capture stories from practitioners
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in the field, share that with
others and provide it's not only real world
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trench stories, but actionable advice that
people can start to use immediately. So
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that's the goal of our podcasts and
really the genesis of it. One of
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the things we teach, one of
the things we're passionate about, is you
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know what you build and how you
market it is all based on an understanding
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of your market, and so,
as that, we drink our own champagne,
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as we like to say, and
we go out and talk to our
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market very regularly, and one of
the things that came through very clearly was
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one that they wanted more of these
stories and they wanted them in a way
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that was easy for them to consume. And then when we surveyed and ask
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them about how they liked to consume
information, podcasts we're showing a real trend
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and in an upward direction. And
it wasn't anything we had experience in and
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it wasn't anything we knew how to
do, but we could see that this
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was going to be a bigger and
bigger choice for the market and a bigger
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avenue for them that they wanted to
hear from us, from so we just
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said, you know what, let's
just jump in, let's do it,
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let's give it a try. Yeah, I love the way that you guys,
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you know, asked your audience.
I'm a big Fan as I'm talking
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to folks about their own podcast strategy. Well, we're not sure if you
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know our audiences really, you know, engaging with podcasts, and my you
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know, my response is will ask
them, because the macro trends that show
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that we're all listening to more podcasts
and more audiobooks. I was listening to
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Gary v SPEA could a do a
keynote presentation, and he said how many
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people are listening to podcasts, and
large number of hands go up. And
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how many people when you watch a
youtube video, half the time you put
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your phone down and just listen to
it, and even more hands go up
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right, and so the macro trends
are pointing in that direction. Take some
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time to pull your audience. I
mean we're big fans of, you know,
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repurposing content from a podcast because you
can create content more quickly, which
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is something I think we're going to
talk about in your story, and so
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it may feed into it, even
if podcasts are aren't high on your list,
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but I like the way that you
guys went into it with a bit
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of a data driven approach. Rebecca
is, you and I were chatting a
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little bit offline. You mentioned some
specific areas where you guys have measured and
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seeing the benefit of your podcast.
One of the things that was kind of
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surprising to you is how much it
kept people engaged. Can you speak to
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that a little bit? In you
know, you saw people saying, Hey,
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we want audio content. This would
be an easy way for us to
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consume it, but had some other
benefits of keeping them engage with your content
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over all. Right, yeah,
I think it's a really great medium for
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that. So you have to hook
them with just one episode and then you
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get to watch them kind of go
through your whole backlog of episodes and and
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it's it's a really easy way for
them to consume different episodes, to flip
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through different ones. So it's all
the work you've done in the past.
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Isn't like, oh, those are
old, no one's going to hear them,
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those are in the past, they
ran once. It's just a library
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of topics for them to explore and
it's so it's really it's far more evergreen
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content than I think you would necessarily
expect it to be and because we capture
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these real stories in the vignettes,
it's it's it's evergreen in terms of the
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media but also in terms of the
content. So you really have something that's
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got legs and it's not unusual for
us to see a real sort of renaissance
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of an old issue or old episode
that comes up that you know, eight
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months after we really said it's got
this killer week because it just sort of
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sort of penetrated through and people found
it, and that's really fun to watch.
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Yeah, absolutely. You know,
you talked about telling the stories from
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in the trenches and that's, you
know, part of our tagline, our
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typical intro here on bb growth as
we're telling stories from in the trenches and
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trying to unpack tactic. So we
approach podcasting very similarly to the way that
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you guys do at pragmatic institute.
Something I've talked with other marketers about here
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on the show and offline is the
fact that, you know, I've heard
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Dave Gearhart at drift, you know, kind of echo this that we're trusting
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marketing lesson. He talks a lot
about being more human and authentic in your
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marketing and you know you guys have
had some surprising ways that a podcast has
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helped you do that and reach people
with that authentic voice, but also kind
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of surprising in how it accelerated the
creation of that authentic content. That didn't
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take you longer to do. Can
you speak to kind of the double sided
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benefit there, since you guys have
been running your podcast for a while now?
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Absolutely so. The tone of our
podcast is very much meant to be
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conversational, right. So it's a
very organic conversation between myself or one of
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our other hosts and the the guest, and I think that authenticity of that
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conversation absolutely shines through and that's why
it holds so much weight. Right.
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This is not, you know,
there's no way I'm telling the the CTEO
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of box or the chief product officer
at bay or any number of other places
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what to say and so to hear
it and hear it in their own words
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the powerful impact that is so meaningful
in an environment today we're always looking for
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customer reviews and customer feedbacks, so
that that's the benefit that was expected and
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has absolutely been seen. The part
that is lovely is in capturing customer stories.
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The traditional way of doing it are
these written case studies and those take,
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you know, lots of interviews and
a really long legal review process,
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and the podcast really don't. We've
seen that executives at some of the biggest
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companies there's there's a lot of comfort
and ability for them to pop onto a
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podcast and there's there's not that review
cycle. Sometimes they want to hear it
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before it publishes, but that's that's
the minority by far. And so the
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cycles and the and the the quickness
at which you can release these stories and
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the type of sort of authentic,
organic conversations that you can capture in this
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medium, to me is just extraordinarily
different from not only sort of the written
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case studies or a really produced video, but even a Webinar tends to be
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more structured and more blocked down so
that's been a really great advantage to the
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podcast. Yeah, I love that
you guys are covering two bases. They're
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right. You're infusing more authenticity into
the marketing if everyone I talk to is
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talking about utilizing the voice of the
customer in their marketing podcast, seems like
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a kind of on the nose way
to do that. And at the same
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time, so many marketing leaders I
talked to, whether they lead a team
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of five or five hundred, they're
trying to accelerate their content creation process to
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produce more of quality that can be
used in and do it more quickly.
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The other thing that I'm hearing,
you know, on the sale side of
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the house is that everybody's telling sales
people and sales teams you need to add
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value. You need to be able
to demonstrate that you understand your prospects point
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of view. Have you guys been
able to kind of bridge the gap between
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marketing and sales with some of your
your podcast content and seen the sales team
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use it in different ways? Absolutely, our sales team loves the PODCAST.
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I think one of the you know, it's if you've got a customer and
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they want to know if you've ever
worked with a company like them. That's
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a very common thing where people want
to make sure you really understand them and
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their industry and their problems. So
when they can pull from a library and
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here a conversation in a related field, in a related industry and share it,
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that's an excellent way. Sometimes what
they do even is with existing clients
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is they'll be you know, they'll
know someone who's been struggling with maybe an
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implementation of safe or with sales enablement, and they know that from their conversations
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and they'll just, like I just
wanted to, you know, share this
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with you. This new episode came
out at this thought might be some great
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feedback that you can use. So
and it both helps them in sort of
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lead qualification and lead nurturing, as
they help with sort of like minded problems,
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but also in account management and relationship
development, as they use those to
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kind of highlight and topics that they
know our part and it just also think
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it makes us feel very like we're
constantly evolving. Right one of the things
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as a training company that's the biggest
one in the field but also twenty five
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years old. You know, some
people might think of that. You know,
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are you modern? Are you fresh
and the podcast content that comes out
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weekly really reinforces that we are continually
evolving and changing and have our fingers on
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the pulse of the market in a
way that I think really helps our sales
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team as well. And what we
do to try to we do a weekly
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company stand up and so when we
have a podcast that we think will be
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of particular interests, we always highlight
that and the guests, and then we
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also do sort of a monthly digest
of the the sort of best podcast from
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the month before that they can send
out and the ones that are coming up
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that they can tease, and so
we try to keep them top of mine.
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That's so what's what's available. I
love it. Sales and marketing alignment
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in real life, as much as
we talk about that here on the show.
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Any specific ways that you guys have, you know, gone a step
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further to get that podcast content into
the hands of your sales team as sales
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enablement content, either, you know, building in and snippets to your you
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know, sales engagement tools, or
baking it into your sales enablement platform.
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Anything else you would recommend to folks
to just making it easily accessible for their
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sales team. So one of the
other things that was really great that one
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of our content members did was sort
of built a cheat sheet of to get
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sick a spreadsheet. Maybe not the
sexiest execution style, but the the the
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top and it divides and tags podcast
by topics if you're looking for a specific
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industry, if you're looking for a
specific topic, using some of our internal
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language, it's a really easy guide
for them to find the most relevant ones.
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I love that example. Sometimes it
doesn't have to be a super sophisticated
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integration between these different pieces of your
sales tech. It can be as simple
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as a well thought out database or
Google Sheet, if you take the time
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to make those links easily available and
kind of tag them based on industry topic,
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those sorts of things I love that
you guys are doing. that.
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Is anything particularly surprised you were about
to you mentioned, you know, the
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willingness of customers and people in your
community to say yes. was somewhat surprising,
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it sounds like. You know,
you mentioned people kind of staying engaged
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with the podcast and going back and
listening to older episodes. was was that
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one of the the key things that
kind of surprised you through your own podcasting
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journey here. Yes, I don't
think I realized how evergreen that content would
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be. It's a great benefit,
for sure. One thing that I also
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don't know if it was a it
was a surprise, it was a very
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pleasant surprice, is they're fantastic to
do logan. I mean I am I'm
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passionate about my field and I am
fortunate to be at a company where we
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sell to people who are in my
field, and so some days I think,
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Oh, look at me, I'm
getting paid to talk to people about
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things I love talking about and sharing
ideas, and I think that my because
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I really am enthusiastic and passionate about
this. I think that does come through.
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So it's really, really fun for
me and then I think it also
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makes it fun for the listeners as
well. So, I mean, what
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a delightful surprise, but it's a
really it's a great part of my day.
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Yeah, it's absolutely true. I've
been, you know, a cohost
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on this show for a year and
a half now and it's it's so much
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fun for me. I kind of
live at this intersection of Sales Marketing in
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journalism, I feel like most days, and combining three of my passions so
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I'm right there with you, Rebecca. Rebecca, if you were, you
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know, in front of a room
full of BB marketing leaders who are thinking
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about starting a podcast, what would
be some of your advice for them?
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Is, as we wrap up today, you've been very gracious and sharing some
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of the things along the way that
you guys have seen, what you've encountered
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in some of the surprises, to
kind of wrap with some advice for other
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BB marketers out there thinking about a
podcast for their own brand. What would
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be some of the things you'd share
with them? Absolutely so. The first
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is to invest in the technology.
PODCASTS are huge these days. There's so
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many sort of mainstream podcast that are
very well produced. People will stop listening
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if the sound isn't what it needs
to be. And this is like it
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sounds so obvious, and yet you're
still like, well, now, this
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is fine and we'll figure it out, we'll go from here, and you
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just put it off and it's telling
you it's less than five hundred bucks to
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get a really nice set up.
You can't always control what your guests sound
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like, but you can control your
own environment and it really is priceless,
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because if the sound quality isn't strong, if the volume isn't where it needs
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to be, doesn't matter how good
the story is you're capturing, and we
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have some really great episodes from early
on that really really struggled with sound quality
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and it's like a shame, right, like it's sad as go spend it
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for five hundred bucks. You're going
to get a really nice set up,
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not just an okay one, and
you're worth it absolutely well, I mean
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I can I can echo that here. You know, the the equipment that
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we usually help our customers get set
up and get going with and podcasting is
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is not more than that. And
we actually have a how to podcast episode
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on how you can get, you
know, started on a pretty lean budget
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with some of the basics. Will
try to link to that in the show
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notes, but I completely agree with
you. They are Rebecca. It doesn't
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take that much. You don't need
to have in PR style production quality,
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but you want to be better than
you know recording on just your phone,
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on anchor for your brand. Put
Your Best Foot forward and you can do
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that. You know, obviously we
help teams with that, but even just
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on your own, it doesn't take
a Tenzero podcast studio to have a podcast
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for your brand. Other pieces of
advice you want to leave folks with today,
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Rebecca? Yeah, two more.
One is that your guests are and
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can be your best advocate and make
sure you leverage those. I think often
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we're so thankful that they were on
this show and then you just take their
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information and to really missed opportunity.
The best thing to do set some expectations
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about when their episodes going to air, keep them informed at that thing.
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If it's going to change, send
them a link as soon as you can,
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because they will send to their network. As you know what you're excited
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they're on the show. They were
flattered to be asked and they will spread
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that news and that just helps you
spread the spread the story, spread the
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podcast, get new listeners. So
how they really defined process of how you
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communicate with them afterwards so that there's
not a void and that you're really leveraging.
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And then the final one that I
would absolutely say, and I is
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just start right. I mean honestly, even if you can't get four or
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five dollars worth of equipment, just
start, because the way to learn is
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to cut, is to start doing
some episodes and it's a forgiving medium.
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Right. You can go and you
can do some and you can figure it
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out and you can get some muscles
around it, but you're never going to
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get better by just reading more about
it or listening to other people's podcast or
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you should to listen to mine.
But you're really going to get it when
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you start doing it. So just
start doing it and I think then you'll
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start to see. Are you a
good host? Is this something that your
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listeners want? Do you have a
format in mind? All of that's going
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to evolve as you practice, and
so it's the best way to do it.
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So don't wait, do it now. Absolutely, I mean it echoes
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some than that. You know Gary
v's been talking about you know so many
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people, you know consume a lot
of his content and he's telling people go
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create, go create, and you
know he's doing the Hashtag Gary v Challenge
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Right now encouraging people to stop consuming
content and start producing it, because you
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can get into this mindset of well, I'm consuming it, so I'm making
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steps forward. And the parallel here
is, you know, I'm reading up
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on podcasting. I'm you know ourselves
here at sweet fish, we put out
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a lot of content on how to
podcast and how to think about getting started,
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but take those first steps, and
that's what we encourage people to do.
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Is You know you can get better
along the way, but you're not
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going to get better if you're still
standing still. So thank you for echoing
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that and for sharing your podcast journey
with us, Rebecca. I love the
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way that you shared some specific surprises, you know, like the ability to
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book guests that you wouldn't have been
able to get a case study with the
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speed at which that helped you create
more content. That the stickiness of podcasting.
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It's something I talk with folks a
lot about. The unsubscribe rate is
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just ridiculously low with podcasts, and
so you know your experience is definitely very
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common, where a lot of downloads
start to come from those legacy episodes and
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somehow. Think we've talked about a
lot on this series is how you can
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use it for sales enablement content.
You give us some really good examples of
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how to make that easy, keeping
it in front of the sales team,
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cataloging it so they can use it
in specific instances. Rebecca, if people
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listening to this would like to stay
connected with you or find your podcast and
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subscribe to pragmatic live. What's the
best way for them to reach out and
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engage the more with you guys?
That's a great question. So the podcast
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is pragmatic live. You can find
on Itunes, pod beans, everywhere you
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want to be, and the best
way to reach out to me is really
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linkedin. So if you find Rebecca
Colli Jaris on Lincoln, it's a it's
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a complicated name, so no one
else has it, which is really very
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convenient for being founder. But I'd
love to connect and I'd love to hear
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your stories about your podcast. Awesome
or Rebecca, thank you so much for
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being a guest on the show again
and contributing to the why podcast work series.
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This was a fun conversation. I
really appreciate it all right. Thanks,
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Logan. Thanks for having me.
Hey, everybody, Logan with sweetfish
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here. If you're a regular listener
of BB growth, you know that I'm
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one of the cohosts of this show, but you may not know that I
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also head up the sales team here
at sweetfish. So for those of you
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in sales or sales offs, I
wanted to take a second to share something
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that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead Iq
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for the past few months, and
what used to take us four hours gathering
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contact data now takes us only one, or seventy five percent more efficient.
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We're able to move faster without bound
prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much
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easier than before. I'd highly suggest
you guys check out lead Iq as well.
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You can check them out at lead
iqcom. That's Elle a d iqcom.
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