Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah,
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all right, welcome back to VTB Growth.
My name is Leslie Cruise with Sweet
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fish Media and if you're new here, we
have spent the entire month of april
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covering the topic of demand generation.
I'm very excited to be joined today by
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john Ladue of Gianluigi consulting. We
connected on linkedin and I thought he
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would be the perfect person to talk to.
Um he is very, very knowledgeable about
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this topic and very passionate too. So
um john thanks so much for joining me
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today. Thanks for having me on.
Absolutely. So the first question I
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always dive into when I start talking
to someone about demand generation
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because it is such a, I feel
controversial topic and everybody kind
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of has a different definition of what
it is. My first question is always how
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do you, in your own words, define
demand generation? Yeah, can I give you
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a little bit of background on, on where
I'm coming from? So I studied marketing
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in psychology at University of
California Berkeley and immediately
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after that jumped directly into two big
sales roles for about 2.5 years was
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picked up A couple years later by a
little start up company that adopted
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Marcato and this is back in 2008. So I
came from drinking the market oh kool
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aid right one demand generation even as
a term was starting to come to the
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realization and so my background there
was work that startups started doing
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consulting fortune 500 companies and
then really owned the demand gen
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function for the last 12 years, 14
years. So start the consulting practice
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about four years ago and have heard a
lot of opinions on what demand
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generation as a role is. And I will
tell you in a very long winded way that
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it really does depend, you know,
company has demand generation as a
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function. It's probably a relatively
small company because to me, demand
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generation as a role covers a few
different places. First, demand
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creation number one, So creating demand.
The second part of it is capturing that
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demand. And then the third part of it
is essentially the enablement of the
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sales side to then continue that story
that you have created and then captured
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that audience. So to me, demand
generation is the function of creating
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the demand and also shepherding that
demand through the pipeline. And I see
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a lot of companies that are much bigger
attempt to do this with a singular role.
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It doesn't really work out that way
very well, but usually this is for
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companies that are much smaller,
somebody's gonna wear a lot of
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different hats, they're involved in
operations, they're involved in sales
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enablement, to a certain extent,
they're involved in content creation,
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they're involved in operations and
putting the hooks out there and the
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carrots out there to try to capture the
demand at the right time and place.
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Absolutely, and I think that's really,
really good because what I always I
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always think about demand generation is
just generating demand and really it's
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like you said it's creating but also
capturing that and then enabling sales,
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which is really important. I think
people kind of tend to forget that
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especially marketers in this space
because it's like let me just do it all,
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let me do it all myself, but got to
have that sales enablement or it's not
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gonna work out. That's right, Yeah,
absolutely. So I wanted to talk to you
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a little bit about what what you feel
B2B marketers tend to get wrong in this
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space and I feel like there are a few
different ways we could go here because
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there are a lot of you know, demand
generation is new, it is growing and it
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is so broad, so what are some things
that baby marketers either should stop
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doing or should you know, really start
doing here. Very good question. I think
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the biggest flaw that I see in B2B
marketing is starting your go to market
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strategy with limited to what you know,
so what do I mean by that? It's very
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common to see B two B marketers moved
from one company to another,
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particularly here in the bay Area where
like the revolving door of sales and
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marketing is one that never stops
spinning. But what I see is these
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individuals go to from one company to
another and what they bring is an
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expertise in a few different channels
and that's where they start. And it's a
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really big problem because it doesn't
take into consideration that each buyer
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is very different for every single
company, even if you've got two of the
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same industry, two of the same product,
the buyer is oftentimes different, so
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starting from the customer first, the
prospect first and understanding how to
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reach that audience and how what kind
of messages work, what kind of content
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works. One of the things that they like,
the things that they enjoy, I think you
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should always be the very first thing
that A B two B market or does, but
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instead what you see, especially if you
jump on length and you'll see what are
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the best channels to use and B two B
marketing, it's like, you can't have an
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answer to that question without telling
me the company that you're doing it for
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the audience, that you're doing it for,
um etcetera. So I think to keep this
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short really about it's all about the
customer and understanding what that
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customer journey is going to be and
working from from that point to the
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types of channels the types of lovers
that you should be pulling. Absolutely
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that's that's really good because I
think a lot of times marketers tend to
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focus on linkedin and it's like okay
but not everyone is on linkedin. You
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know not your ideal customer might not
be on linked in your ideal customer
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might be on reddit. You know they Might
be somewhere else. Yeah 100%. You know
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it's funny there's a lot of these
length in sort of quote unquote
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influencers people that like to talk
about what they think marketing best
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practices and it's great if your
audience is marketing people if your
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audience and salespeople, if your
audience is recruiters they live eat
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and breathe on length in. But for let's
say companies who sell into the I. T.
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Space who sell to engineers uh those
folks do not live eat and breathe in
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lengthen. And so while there is the
power of hey I'm on this and what
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you're talking about works for me. It
doesn't necessarily work for your
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business. And it's very clear when you
see folks commenting and folks chiming
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in on that. Those people don't work
with a variety of companies in a
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variety of industries because that
approach would look dramatically
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different. I want to shift gears a
little and talk. I really want to talk
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about your your consulting business and
kind of you know your core areas of
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expertise and we talked off line a
little bit about you know those three
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areas are demand creation, marketing
operations and reporting. And I think
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the last one is what I really want to
touch on because I think that the
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reporting aspect is very, very
important since demand generation is
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really difficult to measure sometimes,
you know, oftentimes it's organic. So
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um can you just talk a little bit about
those kind of like you know, maybe
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share some examples with clients that
you have or something like that? Yeah,
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100%. So I work with a variety of
different clients from, you know,
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pretty series B two I. P. O. Companies.
And I think the most common theme
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across all of these companies when it
comes to measuring marketing is doing
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what makes sense for the maturity of
the marketing organization at the time.
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So for companies that are sort of pre
series B that are really focused in on
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getting out there creating demand
capturing, demand building pipeline.
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Not that every other company doesn't
want to do that, but for those
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companies that are young where that is
the priority, I would say that
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neglecting things like multi touch
attribution models, things like trying
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to figure out, You know, which of the
50 things that you've tried is working
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the best and doubling down on that,
because you're just not going to get
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those kinds of answers because you're
probably so resource constraint that
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you don't have the operations in place
to scale up that kind of reporting. Uh
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and that makes all kinds of sense
because you really should be focusing
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on winning better be fit customers so
that you can go out and use the voice
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of the customer to show that story. But
for companies that are much more mature
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in their marketing, they do have 100
different things going on and they do
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need to know what is working and what's
not working. All of that said,
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sometimes these companies don't do a
great job of understanding what is the
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point that they need to be measuring so
that they can double down on it. And
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what I hope clients do is just think
about all the various data points,
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right? There's such thing as too many
data points and what are the data
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points that matter the most of them?
And you know, some companies and say,
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oh we want to measure all the things.
Well, uh there really aren't great
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tools and great operations in place the
vast majority of the time to do that.
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So what are the few things that we want
to measure about, say, a particular
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campaign or a particular channel that
are gonna help give us leading
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indicators about whether or not that is
working. So when we talk about things
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like multi touch attribution, you know,
some companies do that very well
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because some companies, they don't
change their go to market approach,
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they're not going to be product led
growth, they're going to be very sales
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oriented and that model is not going to
change and that's great because there's
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consistency over time and then they can
develop a model for, hey, we think that
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U shaped W shaped model might be best
for our business. But the most
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important thing that comes out of that
is that it's all relative whatever it
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is that you're measuring is relative to
the model that you choose is relative
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to the metrics that you're choosing the
measure. So you have to understand that
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in the context of everything, when you
report it up to the C suite or you're
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talking about it to the individual
contributors in the marketing
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organization, that it's hyper
contextual to the way that you're
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measuring it. Not that hey, this is the
end all be all for how we should be
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measuring this thing. The only right
way to be doing it. And it means
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everything because X data point. So I
know that may have sounded a little
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meadow now that I'm thinking about it,
but the truth is it is all contextual.
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So, a prime example of that is
reporting at an individual contributor
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level is very different than reporting
at the C suite level, the executive
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level, the board level, Each group
wants to see it a different way. The
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most important thing is that you're
measuring it for it to make sense for
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that group. Absolutely. A lot of people
that I've talked to have said, you know,
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attribution is so overrated,
attribution doesn't matter. What's your
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opinion on that? You know, I think sort
of like I mentioned before in in much
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smaller companies where revenue impact
is much more important than trying to
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fine tune a machine. Yeah, I totally
agree with that. That the first thing
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that you shouldn't be doing is probably
building out your reporting operations.
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You know, unless you have a board that
says, hey, we need to know everything
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that's going on. You're going to say,
all right, we're going to sacrifice a
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lot of demand creation time to focus in
on reporting operations, but for much
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larger companies, you know, I find that
there's a lot of lengthen chatter, but
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most of those folks don't engage with
companies that are serious C plus where
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we're talking about companies who have
perfected their go to market strategy
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and are really scaling up. You know,
these are teams of 20 to 40 marketing
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people. It becomes very important not
just for the visibility of the business,
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but really to understand our their
individual contributors within that
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marketing or that are pulling certain
lovers, those lovers believe it or not
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do have some level of attribution that
needs to be accounted for, whether
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that's uh click through rate or or
impressions or, you know, the lift and
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overall organic search, traffic,
whatever that might be. There is a
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metric, there's a story to be told
there whether or not it fits into this
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tightly packed idea of needing some
sort of B two B tech software to throw
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into the mix to say, oh, well this is
the end all be all for attribution. I
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don't know about that, but you know,
probably something that aligns a little
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bit more with the role and the types of
channels that they're pulling the
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leverage and for sure, what are some
specific tools that you would maybe
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recommend to? Someone who is
implementing demand generation into
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their organization? Maybe they're, you
know, they're new or they're starting
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their own business and they just kind
of want to implement that, but they're
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just, they have no idea where to start.
Um, what are some tools, some advice
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you might have, where would they even
start? So I'll go back to my answer to
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your very first question about what
matters most and B2B or demand gen
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marketing and that is understanding
what are the needs of your customers,
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how to reach your customer. I think
companies that are sort of just getting
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started should probably really evaluate
the technology or whatever tools they
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need based on costs and what the level
of impact is going to be there. I don't
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think, I think there should be some
sort of automatic, hey, you should go
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out and get a marketing automation
platform or an email platform or some
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sort of other conversion tool because
I've seen companies that ignore a lot
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of that and go straight to third party
li jen, companies that are going to,
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you know, send, send individuals who
have consumed content may be warm leads,
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maybe high intent, whatever it might be.
And so what I would say is listen to
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the customer. If the customer says, hey,
we use mostly email, you're gonna reach
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us only an email. We don't use linkedin.
You know, we don't use social channels,
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you know, whatever that might be that
should really guide your decision
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making. Product marketing person is
going to be really key obviously and
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getting a lot of that data. But in the
absence of that person, you as a demand
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gen person need to go out and learn
your market and then from there you can
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start building a go to market strategy.
Your tools need to fit your go to
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market strategy. So if somebody says
hey linkedin and these awareness
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channels are the only place you're
going to be able to reach us then go
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out and build an engine and a muscle
around you know podcasting or you know
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video production or media maybe some
length unpaid there. If you're talking
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about hey we consume most of our
content on vendor websites which is
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very common in the I. T. Space, the
engineering space, then you should
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probably figure out tools that are
going to optimize your website and
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optimize for conversion there and
building the kind of content that that
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audience is going to create. So I think
it depends is probably the most
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consultant type of answer I could give
you but it would really depend on the
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market and the industry. So that's how
I work with my clients is figuring out
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what that looks like. Yeah, that's
great to know this. Fantastic. This has
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been really great, john thanks so much
for coming on the show. Tell us where
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can listeners find you online if
they're interested in learning more or
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may be interested in your consulting
business? Yeah, Great question. So two
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ways first on linkedin, do a search for
john J O H N Ledoux, L E D O U X I am
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the demand gen consultant. You can also
go to john Ladue dot com and find out
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more. They're perfect. Great. Well,
thanks again for joining me on GDP
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00:15:10.020 --> 00:15:12.050
Growth. Thanks for the time. Leslie
cheers.
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Is the decision maker for your product
or service at BBB marketer, are you
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00:15:18.450 --> 00:15:22.660
looking to reach those buyers through
the medium of podcasting? Considered
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00:15:22.660 --> 00:15:27.880
becoming a co host of GDP Growth. This
show is consistently ranked as a top
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00:15:27.880 --> 00:15:32.030
100 podcast in the marketing category
of apple podcasts, And the show gets
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00:15:32.030 --> 00:15:37.610
more than 130,000 downloads each month.
We've already done the work of building
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00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:41.640
the audience so you can focus on
delivering incredible content to our
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00:15:41.640 --> 00:15:46.060
listeners if you're interested, email
Logan at Sweet Fish Media dot com.
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Thank you.