Why The T-Shaped Marketer Idea Is Misleading

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.600 Welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm Dan Sanchez, and today I want to talk to 2 00:00:08.600 --> 00:00:14.690 you guys about the concept of the T shaped marketer and why it's a bit 3 00:00:14.690 --> 00:00:18.570 misleading and what you should do instead. Now, if you haven't heard of 4 00:00:18.570 --> 00:00:22.560 the T shaped marketer, it's been around for quite a while within marketing, 5 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:26.240 especially digital marketing circles. I know I was introduced to it by Rand 6 00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:30.600 Fishkin on his white board marketing Friday's that he was doing for a long 7 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:35.600 time, probably 567 years ago. I can't remember actually, when I was first saw 8 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:39.050 it. But it's been it's been a while. And the concept is this is that 9 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:45.070 marketers should be equally broad as they are deep into a specific specialty 10 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:48.580 of some kind. So they should be generalists, both generalist and 11 00:00:48.590 --> 00:00:52.980 specialist right? They need to have a broad working knowledge of multiple 12 00:00:52.980 --> 00:00:57.840 channels, and a specialist in goes really deep in one, because marketing, 13 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:02.320 as we all know, it is getting mawr and Mawr complicated. So he was making the 14 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.380 case that in order to be successful as a designer today, in order to advance 15 00:01:06.380 --> 00:01:09.400 your career, you need to take this route. You need to understand how 16 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:12.280 everything played together, but you need to go really, really deep in one 17 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:17.020 particular topic. And I actually found this concept goes all the way back to 18 00:01:17.020 --> 00:01:23.680 1991 when David Guest, as a part of Tim Brown's IDEO design consultancy company, 19 00:01:23.690 --> 00:01:28.280 was using it. Is it a way to do recruiting and to pull the right people 20 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:31.690 into the company? As an industrial design firm? They were very focused on 21 00:01:31.690 --> 00:01:35.090 trying to find well balanced people because creative and well balanced, 22 00:01:35.100 --> 00:01:40.210 interdisciplinary teams intended to produce the most innovative results. So 23 00:01:40.220 --> 00:01:44.050 that's what they used is recruiting as a way to kind of measure how good ah, 24 00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:47.320 potential recruit would be for their company. And now it's being applied to 25 00:01:47.320 --> 00:01:51.130 marketing all the time. I hear people talk about it on Lincoln every once in 26 00:01:51.130 --> 00:01:55.850 a while, and it's still a popular concept today, But I do find that it is 27 00:01:55.850 --> 00:02:00.060 misleading for a few different reasons. I've seen people apply this to their 28 00:02:00.060 --> 00:02:04.140 own careers and seen some of the results that have happened because of 29 00:02:04.140 --> 00:02:08.160 it. So here's why it's misleading, and then I'll go into what to do about it 30 00:02:08.169 --> 00:02:13.200 instead. But first y, it's misleading. It's misleading because most of people 31 00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:16.420 I find applying this principle does not lead people to becoming marketing 32 00:02:16.420 --> 00:02:21.350 superstars. It usually leads to people honestly being mediocre specialists. 33 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.890 They think they have a broad working knowledge. They don't. They just kind 34 00:02:24.890 --> 00:02:30.850 of understand Conceptually. All the different channels and usually usually 35 00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:34.290 don't go is deep. Is you would hope like they. That's like there's a 36 00:02:34.290 --> 00:02:37.200 specialty there in email marketing, but they're not. They don't have a deep 37 00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:41.080 domain knowledge on email marketing. They are just email marketers, so 38 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:44.440 they're pretty good at it. They're just normal. Specialist on The problem is 39 00:02:44.440 --> 00:02:48.520 people don't study that specialty to aim to be in the top 1% of the people 40 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:53.350 doing it. They just do it and read about it. Blog's about it every once in 41 00:02:53.350 --> 00:02:56.160 a while, a couple times a week and read a book about it once a year or 42 00:02:56.160 --> 00:03:01.050 something and they're just to me that's just a normal specialty. And that's 43 00:03:01.050 --> 00:03:04.460 just generally what I see most people doing with the T framework. And they 44 00:03:04.460 --> 00:03:09.950 would say there t shaped marketers, but they're not quite there yet, so I think 45 00:03:09.950 --> 00:03:14.110 it gets a little confusing. So let's talk about what to do instead, and why 46 00:03:14.110 --> 00:03:18.270 the T shape as a metaphor doesn't actually work in my In my opinion, it's 47 00:03:18.270 --> 00:03:21.410 actually if we're gonna make a shape out of it. It's more of a pyramid 48 00:03:21.420 --> 00:03:26.570 because you're never quite. I don't know. You're never going to be equal in 49 00:03:26.570 --> 00:03:31.130 your strength and all the different channels equally as a general listing, 50 00:03:31.130 --> 00:03:35.610 just go really off off the charts in just one or two. It's not gonna be a t 51 00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:39.840 shaped. It's always gonna be a range of skills and one and honestly, 52 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:43.330 specializing in being really deep in one usually means that you're gonna be 53 00:03:43.330 --> 00:03:47.590 pretty dang good in some ones that are complementary, and I'll get into some 54 00:03:47.590 --> 00:03:51.240 examples in a bit. But this is what I would recommend doing instead that I 55 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:55.340 think will lead to a much more robust marketing career. And honestly, I think 56 00:03:55.340 --> 00:03:58.310 a much more interesting journeys. You develop your own skill sets as a 57 00:03:58.310 --> 00:04:02.830 marketer. This is something I've been applying myself on, and I found it that 58 00:04:02.830 --> 00:04:06.770 it's actually gone very well. I will say I spend a lot of time reading and I 59 00:04:06.770 --> 00:04:10.510 don't have a Netflix account specifically so I could spend more time 60 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:14.870 watching linda dot com and Reading. But everybody gets to choose how much work 61 00:04:14.870 --> 00:04:17.380 they want to put into this, to figure out where they want to be in their 62 00:04:17.380 --> 00:04:21.800 careers. But I promise if you want to grind a little bit more to get a little 63 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:26.560 bit farther, this has worked well for me. And what I What I've noticed, like 64 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.820 the top marketers they're doing is I start to interview them on the BTB Grow 65 00:04:29.820 --> 00:04:33.370 show, and we have conversations on Lincoln is a very similar pattern that 66 00:04:33.370 --> 00:04:37.540 I see a lot of people following. So let's take a look at this. I think 67 00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:42.020 first, if you want to become ah, marketing superstar, if you really want 68 00:04:42.020 --> 00:04:45.930 to advance your career and go fast, I think that general idea that specialize 69 00:04:45.940 --> 00:04:50.520 is good. But I think first the first you really want to become a strong 70 00:04:50.530 --> 00:04:54.440 generalist. I think it's a popular misconception that you need to 71 00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:58.620 specialize early in order to become the best in the field, right. We have the 72 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:02.920 tiger Woods of the world that were like became golf prodigies early in their 73 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:07.240 careers and just became some of the best best in their fields of all time. 74 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:10.640 Right? There's a book that came out this last year that actually kind of 75 00:05:10.640 --> 00:05:13.600 debunks that myth and shows that actually a lot of the best in their 76 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:20.010 fields. We're best at being generalist first and then became specialist after 77 00:05:20.010 --> 00:05:24.210 they learned many disciplines within the field. Um, then they dove into just 78 00:05:24.210 --> 00:05:26.840 one. So like musicians with an instrument, they tried multiple 79 00:05:26.840 --> 00:05:29.840 instruments and then dive deep in the one. That's yo yo Ma, he tried. He was 80 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:33.080 good at multiple instruments. He just did it at a very early age before he 81 00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:36.620 dove into the cello at the ripe age of 10, right or whatever that ages. I 82 00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:39.740 don't I can't remember the exact date. And the book that goes into deep and 83 00:05:39.740 --> 00:05:45.650 does all the research on this is called range. Why Generalists? Triumph in a 84 00:05:45.650 --> 00:05:50.860 Specialized World by David Epstein. It's a fantastic book. Recommend 85 00:05:50.860 --> 00:05:54.270 anybody who's really interested. If this. If this subject matter and this 86 00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:57.160 episodes really diving with you, if you're really getting into it, then you 87 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.110 would love this book because this book covers nothing but this one topic we're 88 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:04.140 talking about today, though I do think that the even this title is a little 89 00:06:04.140 --> 00:06:06.900 bit misleading because it makes you think, like, oh, we should all be 90 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:09.660 generalists and that's kind of true. But at the end of the book, he says, 91 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:13.900 like, No, it's just the starting point to your specialty, and that's where 92 00:06:13.910 --> 00:06:16.930 being a T shaped marketer starts to look a little bit better. But again, I 93 00:06:16.930 --> 00:06:21.340 said, the tea is kind of incorrect because I think a good T shaped 94 00:06:21.340 --> 00:06:26.560 marketer is actually more of a pyramid because other complementary skill sets 95 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.020 you're gonna have to become really good at some complimentary skill sets in 96 00:06:29.020 --> 00:06:35.490 order to reach the top 99 percentile of the said skill. So how do you do this? 97 00:06:35.500 --> 00:06:39.980 I think you do this generally by trying to become a specialist in every single 98 00:06:39.990 --> 00:06:44.160 category first and by becoming a specialist first, not maybe, like the 99 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:48.480 best in the class, but becoming a good and really good email marketer and then 100 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:53.940 a good paid ads person and then a good content writer and then a good S E o. 101 00:06:53.950 --> 00:06:59.110 And then a good PR person by be trying to actually do well in each of these 102 00:06:59.110 --> 00:07:02.100 things one at a time. And it will take a long time to do all these because you 103 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:06.180 won't have the opportunities to do them all. You actually would become a 104 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:10.120 competent generalist. There's a reason why most people don't like general 105 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.530 recipes because they're usually incompetent generalists. They do a 106 00:07:12.530 --> 00:07:15.810 little bit of everything, but they're not really good at anything. You want 107 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:20.370 to break past that mode by learning how to become good in each one before 108 00:07:20.370 --> 00:07:24.290 moving on to the next. And this could take time, but it could be accelerated 109 00:07:24.290 --> 00:07:28.370 through a few ways. So in my favorites is just having a side hustle on top of 110 00:07:28.370 --> 00:07:33.590 your job. Or maybe you work is a full time email marketer or demand generator. 111 00:07:33.590 --> 00:07:36.360 You can have a side hustle where you can practice some of these things ahead 112 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.830 of time. Like if you're a full time S E O. But the content team does. I want 113 00:07:39.830 --> 00:07:43.230 you actually writing the content and start your own blawg, right, like proof 114 00:07:43.230 --> 00:07:45.950 to them. You can write and then they'll start giving you a chance to write some 115 00:07:45.950 --> 00:07:49.270 of the content. Um, of course, they want you to spend most of your time 116 00:07:49.280 --> 00:07:53.880 doing the S e O work, but now you can actually spend some time doing other 117 00:07:53.880 --> 00:07:57.230 things on the side. And maybe once they approve, you have a certain competence 118 00:07:57.230 --> 00:08:00.480 in writing and coming up with the content. They will give you a chance to 119 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.550 write a block post every once in a while toe, increase your skill and 120 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:05.880 collaborate with them and they'll they'll give you feedback and they'll 121 00:08:05.880 --> 00:08:08.990 make you better. But that's a great way to do it. You can also just find 122 00:08:08.990 --> 00:08:11.500 freelance work where you're like, Hey, I'm not very good at this yet, but you 123 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:14.270 can find people to pay you for the thing that you're not a specialist in 124 00:08:14.270 --> 00:08:19.740 yet. Whether that's writing block post or doing a little PR campaign or doing 125 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:23.330 some paid ads for the first time, all these things that we're talking about 126 00:08:23.340 --> 00:08:28.020 are easy to find free information online to learn how to do. You could 127 00:08:28.020 --> 00:08:30.700 learn how to run pretty good Facebook campaigns just based on the free 128 00:08:30.700 --> 00:08:33.530 information available on YouTube. You don't need paid courses for these. You 129 00:08:33.530 --> 00:08:37.630 don't need a school to school for pretty much any of these. Other than 130 00:08:37.630 --> 00:08:42.340 maybe writing like English, studying English is really helpful. But other 131 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:46.270 than that, you can learn how to become a specialty in all of these. One tip I 132 00:08:46.270 --> 00:08:50.510 do have is that the 80 20 principal really does apply really well here. And 133 00:08:50.510 --> 00:08:55.270 if you work with an interview, people in these specialties one of my favorite 134 00:08:55.270 --> 00:08:58.500 questions toe Ask them, especially if they're really good. Congar view. A 135 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:03.930 good answer on this is What's the 80 20 rule of this particular craft? If it's 136 00:09:03.940 --> 00:09:08.020 running Facebook ads, what's the 80 20? What's the 20%? That provides me the 137 00:09:08.030 --> 00:09:11.830 80% of the results? And if you could get really good at the 20% provided 138 00:09:11.830 --> 00:09:15.780 they you got the right 20% you could really become pretty damn good 139 00:09:15.940 --> 00:09:19.930 incompetent in the field without having to go through 100% of it. You can 140 00:09:19.930 --> 00:09:24.110 really master 2030% of it and get pretty far along Things is what I did 141 00:09:24.110 --> 00:09:28.180 my own and just becoming a Web designer. I specialized in WordPress and learning 142 00:09:28.180 --> 00:09:30.640 how to manipulate WordPress, but I don't know how to work with other word. 143 00:09:30.650 --> 00:09:35.130 Other Web frameworks. Well, at all. I don't know how to work with shoppers 144 00:09:35.130 --> 00:09:38.900 for I don't know how to work with big commerce. I don't know how to work with 145 00:09:38.910 --> 00:09:42.260 any of the other CMS is out there. Luckily I picked right 10 years ago 146 00:09:42.260 --> 00:09:47.230 because WordPress now powers 40% of the Internet. So that's the 2080% principle 147 00:09:47.230 --> 00:09:51.500 in action and just picking a discipline to go deep or not to go super deep on 148 00:09:51.500 --> 00:09:54.420 because I don't I don't I'm not a WordPress developer. I can't. But I 149 00:09:54.420 --> 00:09:57.800 could design WordPress sites. I could get into the HTML and CSS. I could 150 00:09:57.800 --> 00:10:02.300 manipulate plug ins and go a lot deeper than most WordPress guys can. Because I 151 00:10:02.300 --> 00:10:06.480 did the 80 20 principal, and with WordPress, I could do a lot, just not 152 00:10:06.490 --> 00:10:09.490 100%. But I could at least do 80% of what I would ever want to do in Web 153 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:15.790 design. So once you have become a competent generalists by going after 154 00:10:15.800 --> 00:10:19.980 channel after channel and discipline after discipline, you could start to 155 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.390 actually figure out one which was the most interesting to you and maybe the 156 00:10:23.390 --> 00:10:26.810 most profitable to you and then you have a better idea of how to go deep 157 00:10:26.810 --> 00:10:29.530 into it because you're already pretty good at it. And now you want to go 158 00:10:29.530 --> 00:10:33.820 deeper. So here's what I would recommend to go super deep into it not 159 00:10:33.820 --> 00:10:38.360 just kind of deep, but, like going into the fact that of all the people that 160 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:43.240 work in this field of all S E O s, you're in the top 99%. This is not only 161 00:10:43.250 --> 00:10:46.190 the best way to do it, because you have such a broad working knowledge and it's 162 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.630 easier to get there now because you're good at everything and you know how it 163 00:10:48.630 --> 00:10:52.090 all plays together. There's a huge advantage to that. But now you could go 164 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:55.130 deeper, faster because you know you're gonna focus. And here's what I would 165 00:10:55.130 --> 00:10:59.190 recommend to really focus. You have to read every book on the topic written in 166 00:10:59.190 --> 00:11:04.270 that thing. I know that sounds crazy, but not only is it not too difficult 167 00:11:04.270 --> 00:11:07.130 because a lot of the information in those books were overlapping. You won't 168 00:11:07.130 --> 00:11:10.520 have to read every chapter because the chapters will become redundant. If 169 00:11:10.520 --> 00:11:14.300 you're studying social media like you don't need to read about, like how 170 00:11:14.300 --> 00:11:17.380 hashtags work every in every single book you can kind of skip over those 171 00:11:17.380 --> 00:11:21.960 pages. So it's not that hard to read 10 2030 books because there's so much 172 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.780 overlapping information. You're just looking for new information and in 173 00:11:24.780 --> 00:11:27.920 every single book, and it gets faster than where you read. But read every 174 00:11:27.920 --> 00:11:31.770 book and you'll become more confident as you do it. Like if you could say 175 00:11:31.770 --> 00:11:34.960 I've read every single book on the topic, you're gonna feel pretty damn 176 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.740 confident that you're in that 99%. It does take time, but it's what you got 177 00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:43.220 to do to be in that league. Read every scholarly work written every all the 178 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:46.900 research performed years, usually not as much as you would think, especially 179 00:11:46.900 --> 00:11:50.010 in these newer digital channels. There's just not a lot written about 180 00:11:50.010 --> 00:11:53.360 them yet. They're out there. You could go to Google Scholar and search for the 181 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.300 peer reviewed stuff. That's kind of like been proven and tested and posted 182 00:11:56.300 --> 00:11:59.970 and published as and like this is valid. Read those there at a different level 183 00:11:59.970 --> 00:12:04.130 than the books being published. And then this one's harder but right 30 to 184 00:12:04.130 --> 00:12:08.360 60 block posts. Or I guess you could do YouTube videos or podcasts like I'm 185 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:13.480 doing right now, but do 30 to 60 of them. That answer the most frequently 186 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:18.410 asked questions on this particular niche, because if you can answer the 187 00:12:18.410 --> 00:12:22.770 questions you grow in your understanding of the topic, there's 188 00:12:22.770 --> 00:12:25.600 something about writing that really forces you to think through the 189 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:29.390 material than just consuming it. Creating content like I'm speaking 190 00:12:29.390 --> 00:12:32.880 about it right now or through writing or through recording a YouTube video 191 00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:37.100 put you at a different level when you can articulate the best answer to all 192 00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:39.810 the questions people ask. If you wanna look for the questions, just go to 193 00:12:39.810 --> 00:12:45.000 Google and type in the keyword that you're typing and let Google fill it in 194 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:49.210 for you. Use Google's auto Suggest Thio. Give you the questions people ask. So 195 00:12:49.210 --> 00:12:52.160 but in content marketing, you'll notice it'll suggest content, marketing, 196 00:12:52.160 --> 00:12:55.700 strategy, content, marketing plan, content, marketing template. You have 197 00:12:55.700 --> 00:12:58.150 to answer those. Each one of those is the question you need to answer them. 198 00:12:58.150 --> 00:13:01.000 You can also go to Cora. A lot of great questions on Cora. People are asking 199 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:04.530 about the topic right, a full length block post about all of those. The next 200 00:13:04.530 --> 00:13:08.060 one is toe interview A few dozen of the top voices in that field get 201 00:13:08.060 --> 00:13:11.320 relationship with them, understand their stories, why they do what they do, 202 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:16.160 why they think about the way they think about the topic. Then study the history 203 00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:20.650 behind this particular niche to go deep. You wanna understand how it started all 204 00:13:20.650 --> 00:13:24.210 this, all the precursors that took place before it started? Who coined the 205 00:13:24.210 --> 00:13:28.340 term of the thing, how it's evolved since then Who are the players now? And 206 00:13:28.340 --> 00:13:32.000 that's what you want to do. Was studying the history after that You 207 00:13:32.010 --> 00:13:35.760 during this whole thing? You're gonna be wanna experimenting with every facet 208 00:13:36.140 --> 00:13:39.580 with this thing so that there's pretty much nothing You haven't tried yourself 209 00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:44.160 in this particular narrow field, and then you're gonna want to develop your 210 00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:48.300 own point of views on the topic. After reading all those books and talking to 211 00:13:48.300 --> 00:13:52.650 all the experts and experimenting yourself, you wanna understand where 212 00:13:52.650 --> 00:13:56.120 you stand in it and develop some of those unique points of view. By the way, 213 00:13:56.130 --> 00:14:00.020 if you did all this, you have taken like the first major step to becoming a 214 00:14:00.020 --> 00:14:03.490 thought leader in the space. There's a few more steps to becoming a thought 215 00:14:03.490 --> 00:14:07.100 leader, but this is kind of like the groundwork you lay to becoming a really 216 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:09.770 thought leader, not a faker thought leaders just calling himself a thought 217 00:14:09.770 --> 00:14:13.440 leader on and wants people to think of them. You're doing the ground, the 218 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.250 heavy, heavy groundwork of becoming a legitimate thought leader in the space. 219 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.990 There's a few more steps, and that's a podcast for later. But stay tuned for 220 00:14:20.990 --> 00:14:24.800 more thoughts on thought leadership and how to become a thought leader. But 221 00:14:24.810 --> 00:14:27.720 those are the steps you want to take to go deep, and that is really depth that 222 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.400 will get you to become a riel, competent generalists that will get you 223 00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:35.610 to become in the 99 percentile of a very particular field. And this is 224 00:14:35.610 --> 00:14:40.300 where the marketers get paid the most. The ones that are making the most 225 00:14:40.300 --> 00:14:43.720 amount of money are following this blueprint of becoming highly competent 226 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.900 generalists and then diving deep, deep, deep into a particular field. So if you 227 00:14:48.900 --> 00:14:53.410 want to advance your career instead of and this is a good alternative, I might 228 00:14:53.410 --> 00:14:56.330 add the other highly paid marketers are the ones that go up the leadership 229 00:14:56.330 --> 00:15:01.660 ladder, you know, from Specialist a manager to director to VP Toe like CMO. 230 00:15:01.670 --> 00:15:05.830 If that's not your path to becoming one of the best marketers out there, this 231 00:15:05.830 --> 00:15:10.010 is like a totally another path you could take to become one of the best in 232 00:15:10.010 --> 00:15:14.540 your field. So instead of going up the leadership ladder, you become, ah, 233 00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:19.600 highly specialized. I guess we call it pyramid shaped individual in your 234 00:15:19.610 --> 00:15:25.780 marketing niche. One last note is why not the t shaped? And like I said, if 235 00:15:25.780 --> 00:15:29.330 you're going to specialize and become that deep and make it to the 99 236 00:15:29.330 --> 00:15:33.210 percentile of a very specific field, chances are you're gonna have to get 237 00:15:33.220 --> 00:15:37.940 really good even better than most and another adjacent field. Let's say you 238 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.550 want to become the best search engine optimization. You're gonna have to 239 00:15:41.550 --> 00:15:45.100 learn how to write a really good block post to do that. And you're probably 240 00:15:45.100 --> 00:15:48.950 going to be better than just a general competent generalist in that in just 241 00:15:48.950 --> 00:15:52.690 blogged writing and content and creating content, you're gonna have to 242 00:15:52.690 --> 00:15:56.030 be better than average because you're gonna have to understand the nuances of 243 00:15:56.030 --> 00:15:58.470 those adjacent fields more. You're probably gonna have to understand Web 244 00:15:58.470 --> 00:16:02.280 development better than most because of the technical side of S C E O and how 245 00:16:02.280 --> 00:16:05.460 it all works and how the whole Web works and how Google's. So you're gonna 246 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:07.980 have to go deep into how Google's algorithm works, which is gonna make 247 00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:13.180 you much more technical than most of your peers. So, like I said, they won't. 248 00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:17.620 Your generalist skills won't stay flat like they're gonna range. They're gonna 249 00:16:17.620 --> 00:16:19.920 have a base level, but they're gonna range, and some of them are gonna be 250 00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:23.880 higher than others. And if you kind of stack them, you know, in order there, 251 00:16:23.880 --> 00:16:27.220 they're gonna have, ah, slope to them. This would have been great if I had a 252 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:31.020 visual for a podcast, but no visual on podcast. But I think most of you were 253 00:16:31.020 --> 00:16:35.960 picking up what I'm putting down here. So that's why I find the T shaped 254 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:41.450 marketer idea to be misleading and my practical path that I found to be 255 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:45.150 better for myself, and I've seen it work out better for others to go down 256 00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:50.350 this path. Now I'm gonna be doing another podcast. Pretty soon here about 257 00:16:50.350 --> 00:16:53.940 what you could do to go in the other direction instead of becoming the 258 00:16:53.950 --> 00:16:57.470 pyramid shaped marketer in order to go into a leadership direction. What does 259 00:16:57.470 --> 00:17:02.280 a marketer need to do to go from a contributor to a manager, to a director, 260 00:17:02.280 --> 00:17:06.790 to a VP to a CMO? I'm gonna be covering that the best I can. You have to 261 00:17:06.790 --> 00:17:10.660 realize I'm also on Lee at the director level trying to get to the VP level. So 262 00:17:10.660 --> 00:17:13.170 I've been doing a lot of research of this myself to try to figure out what 263 00:17:13.170 --> 00:17:16.349 does it take to become a VP. And then, honestly, I probably won't be able to 264 00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:20.300 speak to the VP to CMO jump that much, But hopefully you guys can offer some 265 00:17:20.300 --> 00:17:24.079 feedback as we publish that episode and start a conversation on Lincoln about 266 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:27.880 it. So thank you so much for listening to be to be growth. Hopefully, this 267 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.220 information was helpful to you and provide you some inspiration of how to 268 00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:35.340 tackle and grow and advance your own career. If this episode has been any 269 00:17:35.340 --> 00:17:39.800 help to you, please leave us a rating on whatever app you're using to listen 270 00:17:39.800 --> 00:17:42.980 to this episode. Just give it a five star rating. If you want to give it a 271 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:46.270 review, then that's fantastic as well. But all I'm asking for is you tap that 272 00:17:46.270 --> 00:17:50.660 five stars. It helps us tremendously with getting this podcast found in the 273 00:17:50.670 --> 00:17:54.360 Apple App store, but also Spotify and Google on anywhere else, where you can 274 00:17:54.360 --> 00:17:59.590 leave ratings for podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Gary V. Says it all 275 00:17:59.590 --> 00:18:04.520 the time, and we agree. Every company should think of themselves as a media 276 00:18:04.520 --> 00:18:10.200 company first, then whatever it is they actually do, if you know this is true, 277 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:14.010 but your team is already maxed out and you can't produce any more content in 278 00:18:14.010 --> 00:18:18.360 house. We can help. We produce podcast for some of the most innovative BB 279 00:18:18.360 --> 00:18:22.380 brands in the world, and we also helped him turn the content from the podcast 280 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:26.610 and the block posts, micro videos and slide decks that work really well on 281 00:18:26.610 --> 00:18:31.530 Linked in. If you wanna learn more, go to sweet Fish Media com slash launch or 282 00:18:31.540 --> 00:18:35.370 email Logan at sweet fish media dot com.