Why Hype Is Misunderstood and a Force for Good

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.250 Mhm. 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:09.330 Hello and welcome to the BDB Growth Show, Monthly Book talk. I'm Douglas 3 00:00:09.330 --> 00:00:12.250 Burnett, host of the marketing book podcast where each week I published an 4 00:00:12.250 --> 00:00:15.920 interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me and 5 00:00:15.920 --> 00:00:19.360 my listeners keep up with the latest ideas and the quickly changing world of 6 00:00:19.360 --> 00:00:24.280 marketing and sales. And joining me is my friend James, muir, author of The 7 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:29.450 Perfect Close The Secret to closing sales. In this monthly episode of the 8 00:00:29.450 --> 00:00:33.120 GDP Growth Show, we recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales 9 00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:37.070 books recently featured on the marketing book podcast. Now I read 10 00:00:37.070 --> 00:00:41.440 every book featured on the marketing book podcast, but James read even more 11 00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:46.510 books than I do and he listens to every episode of the marketing book podcasts. 12 00:00:46.510 --> 00:00:51.460 I'm delighted that he can join me. A lot of listeners ask us for a book 13 00:00:51.460 --> 00:00:55.700 recommendations. So if either of us can recommend any marketing or sales books 14 00:00:55.700 --> 00:00:59.680 or other resources for whatever situation you find yourself in or what 15 00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:03.060 you'd like to learn more about, please feel free to connect with us on 16 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:06.760 linkedin where we can chat and we'll do our best to get you pointed in the 17 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:12.910 right direction. But please, for the love of all that is Holy, please make 18 00:01:12.910 --> 00:01:17.870 sure to include a message with your invitation to connect on linkedin so 19 00:01:17.870 --> 00:01:23.290 we'll know you're not a filthy spammer. No spam. Yes, James, Welcome back to 20 00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:27.440 the BdB Growth Show Monthly Book Talk. Thank you Douglas. I do read every book 21 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:30.480 and I listen to every episode because you always have the best guests on your 22 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:35.780 show. I tell you I I am so like a magnet for great books and great 23 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:39.300 interviews. I don't know, it's like a gift that you're well, I'll tell you 24 00:01:39.300 --> 00:01:42.550 what I think it is. I speak with so many authors at the end of the 25 00:01:42.550 --> 00:01:44.790 interview and they'll go, you know what I did a lot of interviews, but you're 26 00:01:44.790 --> 00:01:49.220 the only person who actually read the book, like, like the word gets out and 27 00:01:49.220 --> 00:01:52.690 it's like, I remember saying that. So, so people are like, well, actually 28 00:01:52.700 --> 00:01:55.230 going to go on that guy's because they'll actually he actually reads the 29 00:01:55.230 --> 00:02:00.380 book. So maybe whatever it takes, you know? But I I feel so lucky to be able 30 00:02:00.380 --> 00:02:04.630 to interview these these authors on the show. Clearly they're not threatened by 31 00:02:04.630 --> 00:02:08.580 my intelligence because opposites attract, but maybe that whatever it 32 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:12.070 takes, okay, man, word's gotten out, word's gotten out. Everybody knows you 33 00:02:12.070 --> 00:02:14.460 really read the book, you really know what you're talking about. Well, I'm 34 00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:18.490 having fun doing it. I just love doing it. And this is great too. So, in this 35 00:02:18.490 --> 00:02:21.350 episode of Book Talk, we're gonna talk about the four most recent books 36 00:02:21.350 --> 00:02:25.040 featured on the marketing book podcast, which are the experience economy 37 00:02:25.040 --> 00:02:28.730 competing for customer time, attention and money by joseph Pine and James 38 00:02:28.730 --> 00:02:33.890 Gilmore. After that we've got the hype handbook 12, indispensable success, 39 00:02:33.890 --> 00:02:37.760 Secrets from the world's greatest propagandist self promoters, cult 40 00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:41.760 leaders, mischief makers and boundary breakers by Michael F Shine and 41 00:02:41.770 --> 00:02:45.020 somebody's got to get an award for that subtitle. That's all I can say. It's 42 00:02:45.020 --> 00:02:49.460 great trying to deal with the ministry of comments. Oh my gosh, it's awesome! 43 00:02:49.540 --> 00:02:53.460 After that, we've got the ultimate guide to google ads by Perry, Marshall, 44 00:02:53.460 --> 00:02:57.580 Mike Roads and brian Todd. And then finally, we have selling from the heart 45 00:02:57.590 --> 00:03:02.760 how your authentic self cells you by Larry Levine. So, our first book is the 46 00:03:02.760 --> 00:03:06.890 experience economy competing for customer time, attention and money by 47 00:03:06.890 --> 00:03:10.340 joseph Pine and James Gilmore. And I actually remember reading the first 48 00:03:10.340 --> 00:03:13.540 edition of this book when it first came out and I loved it back then. And so I 49 00:03:13.540 --> 00:03:16.070 was really excited to read this second edition. So tell us a little bit about 50 00:03:16.070 --> 00:03:20.020 your interview with James Gilmore. Yeah, so This book, I think the first edition 51 00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:25.300 came out in 1999 and what they did is they updated it over the years and they 52 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:28.860 updated again just two years ago, and I learned about it from Darryl Amy, who 53 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:32.820 is the author of Revenue Growth Engine, which was also the last time I think 54 00:03:32.830 --> 00:03:37.080 past episode of the marketing book podcast and I've read a number of books 55 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:43.520 about customer experience, but it never really sunk into my thick head as much 56 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:46.930 as it did with this particular book. And I guess it's sort of the way they 57 00:03:46.930 --> 00:03:50.510 frame it, Not to take anything away from all these other really, really 58 00:03:50.510 --> 00:03:53.220 good books about customer experience that have been on the show. But 59 00:03:53.220 --> 00:03:56.690 basically, if you go back, like, I don't know, 200 years, there were there 60 00:03:56.690 --> 00:04:00.960 were commodities and then they were like, finished goods, you know, like in 61 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:06.660 the once the Industrial Age started, there were goods and then services very 62 00:04:06.660 --> 00:04:12.360 much in the 20th century. And they actually explain why the service 63 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.380 economy really his I mean, it's still there, but it's no longer on the rise. 64 00:04:16.380 --> 00:04:23.780 And now we're in the experience economy, and he talks about how just a couple of 65 00:04:23.780 --> 00:04:29.530 the key ideas that really took hold for me is that people will skimp now on 66 00:04:29.530 --> 00:04:36.350 goods or services in order to have a better experience. So if you are only 67 00:04:36.350 --> 00:04:41.290 selling a good or a service, you're gonna be compromised financially. In 68 00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:44.900 other words, you're you're you're fighting a losing battle instead. You 69 00:04:44.900 --> 00:04:50.330 need to do everything you can to, to make what you're selling an experience. 70 00:04:50.340 --> 00:04:55.140 So you think of an experience. The greatest examples like a Disney, you 71 00:04:55.140 --> 00:04:58.290 know, you go to a Disney theme park, even the way they fold the towels in 72 00:04:58.290 --> 00:05:02.620 your hotel rooms and experience, it's, they're, they're extremely well trained, 73 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:07.210 The whole organizations engineered that way. A lot of hospitality organizations 74 00:05:07.220 --> 00:05:10.710 have that travel like Southwest Airlines is a little bit more of an 75 00:05:10.710 --> 00:05:14.850 experience. They're not, you know, you like them for that. And one of the 76 00:05:14.860 --> 00:05:19.680 interesting ideas in the book, he talks about how you should always ask 77 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:25.160 yourself what would we do differently if we charged admission. And that was a 78 00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:28.360 very interesting concept, because he even talked about how Disney had, 79 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:33.150 Disney and Nike had these big flagship stores in new york and Chicago and it 80 00:05:33.150 --> 00:05:37.440 didn't cost anything to get in there and they kind of missed the boat by not 81 00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:41.950 charging people to come in or at least charging for some aspect of the store. 82 00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:46.830 And now they both sort of devolved into this basically merchandise stores 83 00:05:46.830 --> 00:05:51.900 because people will, they want to pay more for a good experience. And another 84 00:05:51.910 --> 00:05:56.530 concept from the book that really I really liked was he talks about how to 85 00:05:56.530 --> 00:06:02.120 many companies will give away any experiences they add in order to better 86 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:06.520 sell their goods and services. And he says that's a race to the bottom two. 87 00:06:06.530 --> 00:06:10.840 In other words, you should be thinking first and foremost about what what's an 88 00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:15.810 experience that we can give people. And he also explains that even the most 89 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:22.590 mundane transactions can be turned into memorable experiences. So people will 90 00:06:22.590 --> 00:06:27.380 remember the experiences that they have and they'll they'll pay for that, you 91 00:06:27.380 --> 00:06:31.980 know, you think back two years ago, the advent of these theme restaurants and 92 00:06:31.980 --> 00:06:35.370 it was an interesting experience. And the problem that he outlines there 93 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:38.030 along with a lot of companies is that they don't continue to update the 94 00:06:38.030 --> 00:06:42.310 experience, it's just kind of, it's hot for a while and then and then it peters 95 00:06:42.310 --> 00:06:45.800 out. But the other, I mean it's where the money is, he talks about how 96 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:51.190 experiences are much more profitable than selling services. So it was a 97 00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:54.360 meeting with maybe even the less complex product. Right? So he is a 98 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.520 comparison of like base camp versus other project management tools which 99 00:06:57.520 --> 00:07:00.590 are base camp isn't nearly sophisticated, it just is really good 100 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:06.760 at like four or five things. Yes. Yes. And uh one other one quote from the 101 00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:10.250 book, he talks about those that thrive will do so because they treat their 102 00:07:10.250 --> 00:07:17.320 economic offering as a rich experience and not a glorified good or celebrated 103 00:07:17.330 --> 00:07:22.860 service and will stage it in a way that engages the individual and leaves 104 00:07:22.860 --> 00:07:28.760 behind a memory. And a big part of the second half of the book, 105 00:07:29.940 --> 00:07:36.320 he talks about how theater is such a great paradigm for the way companies 106 00:07:36.330 --> 00:07:40.670 should be creating experiences. If you think about like a Disney for instance, 107 00:07:40.670 --> 00:07:44.100 to go back to them, um, those are though, they don't call them employees, 108 00:07:44.100 --> 00:07:48.600 they call him cast members and they're all trained and they understand what 109 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:53.450 their particular role is. And he has several chapters that explain how this, 110 00:07:53.460 --> 00:07:57.280 how this works at companies that are doing great, producing great 111 00:07:57.280 --> 00:07:59.760 experiences. And even talks about companies now 112 00:08:00.940 --> 00:08:04.590 they don't have human resources departments, they have casting 113 00:08:04.590 --> 00:08:08.940 departments, it's a completely different approach. But then you look 114 00:08:08.940 --> 00:08:12.750 at that and go, yes, of course, that's why it works. And that's why I've been 115 00:08:12.750 --> 00:08:18.270 buying from from companies like that. So it's a paradigm. Yeah, he and he and 116 00:08:18.270 --> 00:08:21.460 at the end, when you're on your interview anyway, he was recommending 117 00:08:21.640 --> 00:08:27.120 books about drama, right? Yeah. In order to so it's just an interesting 118 00:08:27.130 --> 00:08:30.240 paradigm that applies well to the whole experience. You know, one of the things 119 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.559 he mentions, because I'm talking to a sales guy, he talks about how if a 120 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:38.840 company designs a worthwhile experience, customers will gladly pay the company 121 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:43.659 to essentially sell to them. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 122 00:08:43.659 --> 00:08:47.130 Right. And there are a couple other companies and I'm trying to think of uh 123 00:08:47.140 --> 00:08:50.230 the mortgage experience with rocket mortgage. I don't know that that was in 124 00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:53.310 the book, but that's a very, very different experience than almost any 125 00:08:53.310 --> 00:08:56.850 other mortgage company. They have really figured out how to you actually 126 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:00.960 use them recently, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. I was I was stunned by how 127 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:05.640 different the experience was just by, you know just I mean it's money right? 128 00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:08.730 Either way you're just buying money. So it's mostly about the rate. But man, oh 129 00:09:08.730 --> 00:09:12.660 man was the experience. I would highly recommend it. Yeah, interesting. And 130 00:09:12.660 --> 00:09:18.310 it's also like, I don't think I can ever buy, I have an 18 year old car and 131 00:09:18.310 --> 00:09:22.020 I think the main reason why because I don't want to have to go through the 132 00:09:22.020 --> 00:09:26.530 experience of buying another new car. But over the years, last couple of 133 00:09:26.530 --> 00:09:33.220 years I bought cars for my kids at Carmax and I just thought you know, I 134 00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:36.420 think I'm just going to buy from them because it was such a better experience. 135 00:09:36.420 --> 00:09:41.320 I even sold a car through them and I just thought, oh boy, what a relief. 136 00:09:41.330 --> 00:09:44.230 Those guys have embraced this principle. What did you think of his concept of 137 00:09:44.230 --> 00:09:49.610 advertising? To experience ratio? Try to remember basically. It's the concept 138 00:09:49.610 --> 00:09:53.050 is you offer experiences that customers really want to do instead I have to do. 139 00:09:53.050 --> 00:09:57.780 Right. Right, right. Yeah. That was the memory goes first James. Um, no, he 140 00:09:57.780 --> 00:10:03.880 talks about how advertising is actually, it's now become like a phony this 141 00:10:03.890 --> 00:10:08.120 machine where people, they can experience these things and they're 142 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.570 going to tell other people about it. And that's why you're you'll hear 143 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:13.950 people like me or a bunch of the authors that I've interviewed talked 144 00:10:13.950 --> 00:10:18.220 about how the experience is really that your marketing now or your customers, 145 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:21.430 are you marketing now very closely related to the word of mouth marketing. 146 00:10:21.430 --> 00:10:26.030 Right. Yes. Yes. But I love this book the first time around. I would say that 147 00:10:26.030 --> 00:10:29.640 the what of the experience economy, of the dynamics. I don't think that's 148 00:10:29.640 --> 00:10:32.870 really changed at all since the first edition. But what has changed is the 149 00:10:32.870 --> 00:10:36.530 how to do all that? And this new edition addresses that fantastically. 150 00:10:36.530 --> 00:10:40.370 So, I thought this was a fantastic read. Yeah. And I it's not like they're 151 00:10:40.370 --> 00:10:45.730 trying to persuade anyone, they're laying out facts explaining, look, this 152 00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:48.810 is what's going on. And it was like, that's why it was such a head slapping 153 00:10:48.810 --> 00:10:53.260 experience for me, because of course, that's how Oh, yeah, Now I now I see. 154 00:10:53.260 --> 00:10:58.860 So not only is a customer experience, very, very important, but delivering 155 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:04.340 experiences. The biggest takeaway from me was how much more profitable it is. 156 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:07.390 Right? And that's the evolution of everything to, right. That's where it's 157 00:11:07.390 --> 00:11:11.960 all going. So you can get either be on board or get left behind. Yes. All 158 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.620 right, well, next up, we've got the hype handbook 12 indispensable Success, 159 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:19.930 Secrets from the world's greatest propaganda, self promoters, cult 160 00:11:19.930 --> 00:11:24.650 leaders, mischief makers and boundary breakers by Michael F shine. And like I 161 00:11:24.650 --> 00:11:27.740 said, somebody should get a prize for that. If he, if he's the one that came 162 00:11:27.740 --> 00:11:31.760 up with that subtitle, he deserves an award because I'm sure he did. He is a 163 00:11:31.760 --> 00:11:35.980 phenomenal writer. And as I joked with him, I can't remember doing the 164 00:11:35.980 --> 00:11:40.380 interview or not or beforehand. I just said your book was a joy to read and it 165 00:11:40.380 --> 00:11:44.370 was written so much better than it had to be. It was, it was an easy reading. 166 00:11:44.370 --> 00:11:48.290 It is kind of a bigger book too. But I mean it was just so engaging right 167 00:11:48.300 --> 00:11:52.250 before I read it. I kind of had a negative connotation with the word hype, 168 00:11:52.260 --> 00:11:55.750 you know? But I mean if Michael doesn't mind me saying, I would say that this 169 00:11:55.750 --> 00:11:59.350 book is really more about influence a little bit like Children's books than 170 00:11:59.350 --> 00:12:02.910 it is about hype the way we traditionally think about it. So, but 171 00:12:02.910 --> 00:12:06.140 he's a very interesting person. So, tell us about your interview. Yes. So 172 00:12:06.150 --> 00:12:10.290 he talks about how the perception of hype is exactly what James Miller just 173 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:16.180 said. It's associated with ne'er do Wells And it's disparage. But he 174 00:12:16.190 --> 00:12:20.710 explains that it's, you know, somewhat art and science here. But he explains 175 00:12:20.710 --> 00:12:26.410 these 12 ways that hype artists use it for good or bad. And he would like more 176 00:12:26.410 --> 00:12:31.800 people to use it for good. And I think he makes the case for that quite well. 177 00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:35.600 So you have to get over the fact that hype is considered, you know, an eye 178 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:40.620 rolling concept. But then he goes through and this is what was so 179 00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:44.940 interesting, goes through history. I mean all the way back to before before. 180 00:12:44.950 --> 00:12:48.190 Yeah, he likes using a really old history. Yeah. And and all the way up 181 00:12:48.190 --> 00:12:52.270 to the 20th century and, and so forth. And I had to laugh. I'm going to read 182 00:12:52.270 --> 00:13:00.250 this because the book talks about various hype artists, including people 183 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:06.860 like Donald trump, Barack, Obama, kim jong il, joseph goebbels, Hitler's pr 184 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:11.560 man, louis, Farrakhan, Gary, Vaynerchuk, tim Ferriss, Bernie Madoff, johnny 185 00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:15.760 rotten, Andy Warhol, the french revolution, the bolshevik revolution 186 00:13:15.770 --> 00:13:20.080 and the Church of scientology. So talk about covering the waterfront and he's 187 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.660 not saying all these people are are bad obviously, but he's, he was showing how 188 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:33.270 they were able to use hype for good or bad and very, very uh entertaining. And 189 00:13:33.270 --> 00:13:35.730 so there's, there's 12 different ways we won't go into all of them. But a 190 00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:39.190 couple of them, they were very interesting. And almost every chapter 191 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.530 as I read through it, I went kind of like with the experience economy, Oh, 192 00:13:43.540 --> 00:13:47.340 that's how they do it. It was like watching a penn and teller performance 193 00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:50.780 where they show how they're doing the trick. And one of the first things he 194 00:13:50.780 --> 00:13:54.220 talked about, which is the, and he has a firm that helps clients do these 195 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:59.660 kinds of things to promote themselves and some very, very successfully. And 196 00:13:59.660 --> 00:14:03.580 the, one of the areas that is very, very important. But it gets the most 197 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:10.290 pushback on from clients is this idea of, uh, the great unifier of hatred. So 198 00:14:10.300 --> 00:14:15.870 he talks about, you've got to pick fights and it doesn't necessarily mean 199 00:14:15.870 --> 00:14:20.200 you pick a fight with the competitor down the street. You could be picking a 200 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:26.570 fight with some frustration that a lot of your customers have or yeah, or a 201 00:14:26.570 --> 00:14:33.810 problem or some aspect of a friction and that type of thing. And You do have 202 00:14:33.810 --> 00:14:37.740 to pick the right enemy. Um, there's a there's a, he explains that he explains 203 00:14:37.750 --> 00:14:41.900 how to go about finding the right kind of him because he shows examples of 204 00:14:41.900 --> 00:14:45.610 people that picked the wrong enemy. Don't be a troll. Yeah. Right, right. 205 00:14:45.610 --> 00:14:50.250 But you can pick something. Like, I think you just mentioned um, 37 signals 206 00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:54.150 the base camp people. I'm pretty sure he mentioned him in his book where they 207 00:14:54.150 --> 00:14:59.230 were, they picked a fight with complex project management software and Base 208 00:14:59.230 --> 00:15:03.360 camp is a very simple one. And so they were picking a fight with, with that 209 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.940 aspect. So picking a fight is almost required and a lot of these overlap a 210 00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:15.120 certain a bit. Another thing he talked another chapter is he talks about how 211 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:20.670 the best way to get people to do what you want them to do is to have them get 212 00:15:20.670 --> 00:15:25.820 themselves there in steps so small that they don't even know it is happening. 213 00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:29.940 Which reminded me of this book called The Perfect Close by James new york, 214 00:15:29.950 --> 00:15:37.280 right? Uh uh no, it really was that came to mind, but for instance, he 215 00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:42.180 talks about the Church of scientology at one point and he said, you know, 216 00:15:42.180 --> 00:15:48.130 they have some beliefs and some concepts that people find really quite 217 00:15:48.130 --> 00:15:52.680 unbelievable at first and that's why they don't mention them when they get 218 00:15:52.690 --> 00:15:58.370 people to join. It seems like more of a uh you know, uh more of a holistic 219 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:03.130 wellbeing, time management, you know, positive thinking, psychology. Yeah, 220 00:16:03.130 --> 00:16:07.230 yeah. And then they go and then they gave examples of other cults in the 221 00:16:07.230 --> 00:16:11.170 past that showed how, you know, you don't try and change people too much 222 00:16:11.170 --> 00:16:16.840 all at once and why, why that works us so well. One other idea that I see in 223 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:20.520 the news all the time, particularly this last year with the coronavirus is 224 00:16:21.640 --> 00:16:25.810 basically the reporting of it where he talks about people can't resist the 225 00:16:25.810 --> 00:16:32.710 persuasive appeal of a flawed or fraudulent idea when packaged in hard 226 00:16:32.710 --> 00:16:38.110 science and oh yeah, he said make it scientific. Yes. Even if it's not just 227 00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:43.040 say, you know, but he shows how people swallow that hook line and sinker when 228 00:16:43.040 --> 00:16:47.030 it's got some sort of science wrapped in, even if it's not related to what 229 00:16:47.030 --> 00:16:50.110 you're we're talking about. Even if it's junk science, right? They're 230 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:54.110 completely abandoned common sense. As long as she said, hey, somebody did a 231 00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:58.330 study or we did a survey and this is the thing. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So 232 00:16:58.330 --> 00:17:04.750 there was back to drama with the experience economy. He talks about how 233 00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:10.530 hype artists are really good at two of the key facets of drama which are 234 00:17:10.530 --> 00:17:17.859 tension and mystery. So you think about any kind of think about Shakespeare or 235 00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:23.160 any kind of movie, uh die hard, anything like that, there's tension and 236 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.140 mystery. They don't tell you right away what's gonna what's going to happen. 237 00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:31.000 And he said the hype artists are really good at bringing out the tension and 238 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:36.100 and kind of holding back the mystery. And he says, regardless of their 239 00:17:36.100 --> 00:17:40.730 subject matter, these professional thought leaders invariably inject 240 00:17:40.730 --> 00:17:46.250 whatever constructive or inspirational messages they there are that there's a 241 00:17:46.250 --> 00:17:52.920 conveying with doses of doom I think of, you know, religious leaders, he talks 242 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.830 about religious leaders because he talks about all of these sentiments 243 00:17:56.830 --> 00:18:01.610 serve to make you squirm before relieving the tension. And he even said 244 00:18:01.610 --> 00:18:04.530 this is what I thought it would be interesting to you. He said, inflicting 245 00:18:04.530 --> 00:18:07.870 this kind of pain is something your customers, clients and prospects want 246 00:18:07.870 --> 00:18:16.050 you to do even if they don't know it. But I remember every principle in this 247 00:18:16.050 --> 00:18:20.040 book must be used for good for good. That's right. That's right. Right. I 248 00:18:20.040 --> 00:18:24.990 think he wrote this with some a little bit of trepidation and you know what it 249 00:18:24.990 --> 00:18:29.070 reminded me of a book that was on the show several years ago called hooked by 250 00:18:29.070 --> 00:18:34.960 near AOL. And he is a great book, best selling book. It explains how companies 251 00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:40.510 make addictive products, right? And I mean social media, but other things as 252 00:18:40.510 --> 00:18:44.700 well. And he includes at the end of their saying, now listen, you got to 253 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:48.990 use this for good, you gotta use remember that right, adding gambling 254 00:18:48.990 --> 00:18:52.830 elements to games. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he later wrote another book 255 00:18:52.830 --> 00:18:58.300 called in distractible in part because you felt so bad about you know how to 256 00:18:58.300 --> 00:19:02.500 defend yourself against those things. He wasn't teaching companies who are 257 00:19:02.500 --> 00:19:05.280 already making addictive products how to do anything because they already 258 00:19:05.280 --> 00:19:11.090 know how to do that. So back to my friend uh near, but the other thing he 259 00:19:11.090 --> 00:19:16.920 talked about was this idea of coming up with a solution to a complex problem 260 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:22.490 and making it really almost too simple and clear and example he gave was, You 261 00:19:22.490 --> 00:19:26.080 know, somebody could come out and write a book now and you know, great 262 00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:30.300 leadership for the 21st century, it would be kind of a ho hum, But instead 263 00:19:30.310 --> 00:19:35.440 you write a book like the seven habits of highly effective people, so it 264 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.720 becomes much more concrete even if it's not or the other great example he has 265 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:45.540 was tim Ferriss the four hour workweek. Yeah, so nobody is going to have that 266 00:19:45.540 --> 00:19:48.310 four hour work week. But they've been aspire to that. And they were there was 267 00:19:48.310 --> 00:19:53.460 an allure of that simplicity. People are attracted to this idea that there's 268 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:57.610 an absolute truth, there? S an absolute truth. So, another concept that I 269 00:19:57.610 --> 00:20:01.040 thought was very interesting and he talks about promoting the ideas of 270 00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:05.240 fulfillment successor salvation through toil is the cheapest and most efficient 271 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:10.610 way for a hype artist to get others to spread their message for them. I know 272 00:20:10.610 --> 00:20:14.490 you're thinking Gary Vaynerchuk right there and he talks about by fetishizing 273 00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:19.560 hard work hype artists find their followers bind their followers to them 274 00:20:20.040 --> 00:20:24.290 ever more tightly. And he talks about how if you can find ways to put your 275 00:20:24.290 --> 00:20:28.040 clients and customers to work implementing your ideas rather than 276 00:20:28.040 --> 00:20:31.740 always doing the implementing for them. They will keep coming back for more. 277 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:35.040 And the example he gives there and the camera if we talked about this in the 278 00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:38.880 interview but he belonged to this organization that helped agency people 279 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:42.000 and he was paying a good bit of money and he would go to these quarterly 280 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:46.970 meetings and they showed him exactly what to do and people would come in not 281 00:20:46.970 --> 00:20:49.310 having done everything they were supposed to do because they would get 282 00:20:49.310 --> 00:20:53.600 distracted and they run into business and they were apologizing saying, I'm 283 00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:57.180 sorry, I wasn't getting all this done, but they were charging enough so that 284 00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:03.190 he was trying to take it seriously. And that is what really got me quite 285 00:21:03.190 --> 00:21:07.530 interested because I mean the agency world and we when we've done work for a 286 00:21:07.530 --> 00:21:11.210 for clients in the past and I over exaggerated by saying, you know, we're 287 00:21:11.210 --> 00:21:15.950 leaving at the loading dock for them, they never take ownership of it, and 288 00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:18.730 they say, you know, I wrote a check and I was expecting something to happen 289 00:21:18.730 --> 00:21:22.100 here, and it's like, well, it's kind of not have marketing works anymore if 290 00:21:22.100 --> 00:21:26.270 advertising still work that well, I'd be doing it. And generally, and and 291 00:21:26.270 --> 00:21:28.960 this has talked about in Marcus Sheridan's book. They ask you answer 292 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.760 the second edition, he talks about how in the past, and this has been my 293 00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:36.020 experience to when you try and do all this work for a client, and they're not 294 00:21:36.020 --> 00:21:40.890 involved in it, and they're not taking partial ownership of it. It usually 295 00:21:40.890 --> 00:21:44.840 falls through, it doesn't work out. And that's why this this was further 296 00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:48.240 affirmation of, look, we're going to start getting out of that, we're going 297 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.410 to say, look, we're going to help you do it, but we're gonna do it so that 298 00:21:51.410 --> 00:21:55.790 you guys will be able to take over quickly. And the irony is that the hard 299 00:21:55.790 --> 00:22:00.020 work itself makes people believe even more in the cause, Right? So it's like 300 00:22:00.020 --> 00:22:03.520 a double plus. I'm doing some work for be any right now. It's a networking 301 00:22:03.520 --> 00:22:07.200 organization and it's exactly that, that the chapter level, it's all 302 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.520 volunteer, nobody's getting paid for any of that stuff. And yet they are 303 00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:13.220 very structured. They have expectations for you to be in the group and all that. 304 00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:16.860 And it totally works very effective, you know, at the risk of sounding 305 00:22:16.860 --> 00:22:19.040 sacrilegious. There was one of the things in this book where he talks 306 00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:23.760 about churches and bibles, but he doesn't mean necessarily religion or an 307 00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:27.560 actual, like The old, he calls the seven habits of bible basically. 308 00:22:27.560 --> 00:22:31.990 Exactly. He, so he talks about how the some of the best hype artists they 309 00:22:31.990 --> 00:22:36.050 produce a bible okay, like the four hour workweek or the seven habits of 310 00:22:36.050 --> 00:22:41.740 highly effective people or, or whatever, basically the truth that you hold To be 311 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:45.620 like the 10, Not the 10 commandments, but there's probably something of B and 312 00:22:45.620 --> 00:22:49.470 where they have some sort of Yeah, they do directive saying this is what's 313 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:54.500 important and this is what works. And then he talks about how starting a 314 00:22:54.500 --> 00:23:01.140 church and again, a church meaning a group of believers of something, uh, 315 00:23:01.150 --> 00:23:04.610 not necessarily religion. He says that's the best growth hacking method 316 00:23:04.620 --> 00:23:08.900 ever invented because they go and evangelizing being is a great example. 317 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:12.320 Weight watchers is a great example, all kinds of things like that. Yeah, 318 00:23:12.330 --> 00:23:16.020 absolutely. Well, his, uh, there's so much to this. There's for the listeners. 319 00:23:16.020 --> 00:23:20.020 There are 12 total principles that he's using uh, in the book, right? That he 320 00:23:20.020 --> 00:23:23.790 calls hypes hype strategies I think is what they're called. And I think we got 321 00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:27.690 maybe half of those so fantastic if you like this kind of stuff, which is all 322 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:30.740 about influence and persuasion and that kind of thing. And psychology, which I 323 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:35.270 do, you'll find it very fascinating. Um, here's one takeaway for the listeners 324 00:23:35.270 --> 00:23:40.120 is if you're trying to better yourself, he suggested that you pay attention to 325 00:23:40.120 --> 00:23:43.620 what the gurus are actually doing, not necessarily saying, but what they're 326 00:23:43.620 --> 00:23:47.480 actually doing and observe their hype techniques, uh, in this context and 327 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:51.750 learn from that, right? And the one thing that he thought listeners could 328 00:23:51.750 --> 00:23:55.830 do to start is, you know, what's the point of view? And you ask yourself 329 00:23:55.830 --> 00:23:59.040 what, you know, what's the point of view in your industry that's accepted 330 00:23:59.040 --> 00:24:02.800 as the truth, right? And an irrefutable trip that you just disagree with. 331 00:24:02.810 --> 00:24:06.430 That's a pretty good place to start to remember. The very first thing we 332 00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:10.200 talked about was, you know, make war, not love, pick an enemy, pick an enemy. 333 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.400 So this is this is a great place to start for your contrarian view, right? 334 00:24:13.410 --> 00:24:18.680 The enemy that you're gonna fight. Very entertaining read. Oh man. The whole is 335 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.400 I would say this book fits somewhere between Baldini's influence and maybe 336 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.730 the Heath brothers made to stick and maybe Seth Godin's. This is marketing, 337 00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:30.630 but it touches on a ton of useful tools for promoting ideals with a unique 338 00:24:30.630 --> 00:24:33.910 perspective. And I think what separates this book maybe from a number of other 339 00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:37.940 books out there that covers some of these topics is that he demands that 340 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:41.740 every, every reader must use these tools for good. Yes, and I would throw 341 00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:45.010 in a bit of Malcolm Gladwell too, because he just like that list. I read 342 00:24:45.020 --> 00:24:49.090 all those people, He covers them and many more. Yes, absolutely. So, 343 00:24:49.090 --> 00:24:51.710 absolutely great book, very entertaining and the interview that you 344 00:24:51.710 --> 00:24:55.220 did with his entertaining too. So be sure to catch that. Alright, well next 345 00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:59.070 up we've got uh ultimate guide to google ads by Perry Marshall, Mike 346 00:24:59.080 --> 00:25:03.490 roads and brian Todd and I think, you know, I'm a big fan of Perry Marshall 347 00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:07.390 and his cadre of experts and that he co authors his books with and this book is 348 00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:10.520 really no exception to that. So, tell us about your interview with Mike Roads. 349 00:25:10.530 --> 00:25:13.780 Well, there was another book that came out quite recently that Perry Marshall 350 00:25:13.780 --> 00:25:17.610 wrote with bob rigorous and one of the co author whose name I can't recall at 351 00:25:17.610 --> 00:25:21.180 the moment and I apologize for that, but I interviewed bob rigorous and it 352 00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:25.030 was all about the ultimate guide to facebook advertising and what was so 353 00:25:25.030 --> 00:25:29.980 interesting about that book as well as this one is that the book and 354 00:25:29.980 --> 00:25:35.620 particularly the interview was we only talked about things that were relevant 355 00:25:35.630 --> 00:25:38.980 even if you're not a facebook advertisers, you're not a google 356 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:43.840 advertiser and there is so much to learn about marketing and sales from 357 00:25:43.840 --> 00:25:49.730 studying what works on the cutting edge of like facebook advertising or google 358 00:25:49.730 --> 00:25:54.430 advertising. Both books were great at simply straight up marketing as opposed 359 00:25:54.430 --> 00:25:58.710 to thinking of them as only google ads are only facebook ads. Right? Yes, Well 360 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:02.050 they don't work if you don't have good marketing the beginning. Yeah, 361 00:26:02.060 --> 00:26:05.890 fundamentals. And so that I heard from so many listeners who said they learned 362 00:26:05.890 --> 00:26:09.400 so much from these, both those interviews because it was a great 363 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:14.070 reminder of what's what's really important couple things that were just 364 00:26:14.080 --> 00:26:17.800 really important. And again, it's not about click this button, click this 365 00:26:17.800 --> 00:26:22.880 button is the thing about google advertising is the most successful 366 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:27.950 people are the best at figuring out your prospects intent. So once again, 367 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:33.450 those that understand their customers better when period full stop and they 368 00:26:33.450 --> 00:26:38.270 actually sell more to even, you know, in the sales world. And another 369 00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:44.600 integrate concept, he says, remember your ads only job is to get them to 370 00:26:44.600 --> 00:26:51.360 click on it. It's your websites job to persuade them and take action. And by, 371 00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:53.910 there's a lot of people are thinking, oh, that's all we got to do. Well wait 372 00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:59.340 a minute. Is your is your website even squared away? So the sales equivalent 373 00:26:59.340 --> 00:27:03.140 of that is don't sell on the phone. You said to get the appointment? Yes, Yes, 374 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:08.300 exactly, exactly, exactly. And uh he talks in the book, I mean, we're 375 00:27:08.300 --> 00:27:12.050 talking entire chapters here about USPS, unique selling propositions. Old 376 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:16.020 harkening back to the days of Rosser Reeves at the ted bates agency. But you 377 00:27:16.020 --> 00:27:20.210 know, they explain that the business ventures that fail the fastest are the 378 00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:26.160 ones that have no U. S. P. And a any selling proposition is a statement. You 379 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:31.860 choose to embody what differentiates your products and your brand from your 380 00:27:31.860 --> 00:27:35.360 competitors. He's fairly constructive there in that chapter to write because 381 00:27:35.360 --> 00:27:39.530 he says sometimes USP is not a single thing. It might be a combination of 382 00:27:39.530 --> 00:27:44.100 things or or or the exact market that you serve or I mean there's a he's very 383 00:27:44.100 --> 00:27:46.750 creative about the ways that you can develop this if you think you're in a 384 00:27:46.760 --> 00:27:50.440 commodity space. Yeah. You know what else is interesting about google 385 00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:54.690 advertising? It's a great way to test things. You can even test your USP for 386 00:27:54.690 --> 00:28:00.560 very little money just by testing who who's clicking on on what and and just 387 00:28:00.630 --> 00:28:04.150 hours later you could know yeah, within hours you can even test out company 388 00:28:04.150 --> 00:28:09.640 product names or service names or the kinds of things that people would have 389 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:14.430 paid big bucks to research companies in the past. You know, basically the 390 00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:18.230 really smart google advertising people, they don't presume to know these things. 391 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.270 They just figure out what works and what doesn't. Maybe they try to 392 00:28:22.270 --> 00:28:26.870 understand the intent, but they go with with, they do a lot of great testing. 393 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.970 Another thing that he talks about a disturbing number of advertised google 394 00:28:31.970 --> 00:28:36.100 advertisers and this could be google shopping ads could be, you know, the 395 00:28:36.110 --> 00:28:41.450 paper clicks on the search engines, it could be uh, google display network, it 396 00:28:41.450 --> 00:28:43.910 could be advertising on Youtube. So there's a lot of different ways that 397 00:28:43.910 --> 00:28:48.750 you can, you can advertise but he talks about conversion tracking. You've got 398 00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:52.590 to connect it to your google analytics and figure out what what people are 399 00:28:52.590 --> 00:28:57.480 doing. Because there's a lot of people that are running these ads and not 400 00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:01.000 connecting it to figure out what happens after they click on the add and 401 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.490 what's even worse their advertisers that are sending people simply to their 402 00:29:04.490 --> 00:29:09.030 home page, there's not a specific landing landing pages are not hard to 403 00:29:09.030 --> 00:29:12.800 set up. You should have a landing page for each of your different ads so you 404 00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:16.740 can see what what happens. Another thing that he talks about here are the 405 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:21.320 keywords and he explains keywords and they're not this mysterious thing that 406 00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:24.620 you know I think a lot of people have had maybe some bad experiences with S. 407 00:29:24.620 --> 00:29:27.460 E. O. People that maybe didn't know what they were doing or didn't know how 408 00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:32.650 to explain it or but he talks about keywords, he explains that what was so 409 00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:36.570 interesting about that is even if you aren't a google advertisers, the more 410 00:29:36.570 --> 00:29:39.350 you understand about keywords, the more effective you're gonna be as a content 411 00:29:39.350 --> 00:29:46.040 marketer and generating content to get found on search engines. So yeah sc Oh 412 00:29:46.050 --> 00:29:53.560 please. So another thing that was really, really important and if you are 413 00:29:53.560 --> 00:29:57.270 the ceo of a company and you know your people are doing, you know let's say 414 00:29:57.280 --> 00:30:02.250 search advertising paper click you should say are you guys doing 415 00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:07.160 conversion tracking? The good ones? Will say yeah we're doing that. We're 416 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.890 not just trying to figure out what happens afterwards. Another thing is re 417 00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:15.950 marketing where you place a pixel on someone's website. The same with 418 00:30:15.950 --> 00:30:19.940 facebook advertising where you can for free you can people that come to your 419 00:30:19.940 --> 00:30:24.580 site you can then advertise that and they don't convert, you don't capture 420 00:30:24.580 --> 00:30:29.160 their email address. You place a pixel on their site and their computer device, 421 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.380 whatever they're using. And then when they go to facebook, they're going to 422 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.130 see ads for you. So they're kind of, you start getting followed around and 423 00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:38.780 you do it just enough. So it's not creeping people out and you know, but 424 00:30:38.790 --> 00:30:41.900 it's really, really effective and you should be doing re marketing if you're 425 00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:46.350 doing any kind of google advertising and it's not that hard to do. And it 426 00:30:46.350 --> 00:30:50.750 really, really makes a big difference. And I mean, I mean guilty if you want 427 00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:55.590 to use that term of clicking on an ad or going to a website at some point and 428 00:30:55.600 --> 00:30:58.970 moving on and then I saw the ad over the next couple of weeks and then 429 00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:03.720 ultimately it was reminded about it and looked into it again and bought it. So 430 00:31:03.730 --> 00:31:08.030 it wasn't creepy. And I yeah, I appreciate it. But you know, another 431 00:31:08.030 --> 00:31:11.970 thing, a similar thing he talked about in the book, they have an entire 432 00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:17.640 chapter, okay, this is a book on google ads, write an entire chapter on email 433 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:22.530 marketing. That's not google as and Youtube advertising, Youtube 434 00:31:22.530 --> 00:31:26.350 advertising all this stuff. But if you are doing any kind of advertising on 435 00:31:26.350 --> 00:31:29.930 google and you are not doing email marketing, you're doing it wrong, 436 00:31:29.930 --> 00:31:34.500 you're wasting your money. It was a very good chapter on what works well. 437 00:31:34.510 --> 00:31:37.800 And they really zeroed in on what works well with email marketing. And I'll 438 00:31:37.800 --> 00:31:42.380 just give you a hint, keep it human, don't You're not going to bore people 439 00:31:42.390 --> 00:31:46.140 have some something that seems realistic and, and interesting. I 440 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:51.020 thought they did a they did a great job. You know, at the end of his book, this 441 00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:56.520 is the biggest, I think it's the big he has the biggest google advertising 442 00:31:56.530 --> 00:32:00.670 agency in Australia. It's still one of the biggest in the world. And he has a 443 00:32:00.670 --> 00:32:07.720 whole chapter on what you need to do if you want to hire a google ad agency. 444 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:13.330 And what was probably surprising to some readers is he saying, try to do it 445 00:32:13.330 --> 00:32:16.810 yourself at first so that you'll start to understand and benefit from it. 446 00:32:16.810 --> 00:32:20.650 Don't completely outsource this to someone else because there's so much 447 00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:25.110 that your organization can learn. Let's say you need somebody like their firm 448 00:32:25.110 --> 00:32:30.980 to get you started, that's fine, but stay involved because there's a lot 449 00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:34.650 that you're going to learn about your customers, that if you all sort of 450 00:32:34.660 --> 00:32:38.390 outsource it to an agency, you're not going to benefit from that. So I 451 00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:41.610 thought that was very interesting as well. Yeah, not the least. There was is 452 00:32:41.610 --> 00:32:44.930 the lifetime value of your customer, which helps you justify all the spin 453 00:32:44.930 --> 00:32:48.810 that you do elsewhere, Right? So yeah, that's one of the first concept that 454 00:32:48.810 --> 00:32:51.140 they cover in the book important. I think that's true. Yeah, I forgot to 455 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:53.930 mention that. And that's one that is in a number of books and people seem to 456 00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:58.900 forget about it. And I've even spoken to Cfos say, what's the lifetime value 457 00:32:58.900 --> 00:33:03.310 of your customer? This one fella, Not a dumb guy, but he's got a head in front 458 00:33:03.310 --> 00:33:08.110 of it that way. Well, we keep our customers for about 20 years and when 459 00:33:08.110 --> 00:33:11.350 they spend about X amount each year, I said, Okay, so if you can just get one, 460 00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:16.290 do you realize it's worth many millions of dollars? Yeah. Oh, I haven't been 461 00:33:16.290 --> 00:33:19.880 accounting for it that way. You know, maybe that gives you the justification 462 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.720 to go out and use revenues to generate the client over a period of time, it's 463 00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.500 going to generate profit, you know, another thing that I failed to mention, 464 00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:31.200 which is just amazing and often forgotten about google advertising is 465 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:36.130 that the better your google ads work, the lower the price you're gonna pay, 466 00:33:36.130 --> 00:33:41.550 it gets cheaper if you've got the right combination of you, you understand the 467 00:33:41.550 --> 00:33:46.480 clients, your customers search intent, you create ads that are effective, you 468 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:50.550 bring them to your site, you get them to take action. I mean, google can see 469 00:33:50.550 --> 00:33:55.430 all this. They want people to have a good experience, you know, finding what 470 00:33:55.430 --> 00:33:59.130 they're looking for, even if it's an ad or buying something. And he said it was 471 00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:03.450 sort of like you run a Tv commercial for your car dealership 472 00:34:04.540 --> 00:34:08.600 on the local television station and it works so well that the television 473 00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:11.460 station says, you know, that's working so well, we're gonna charge you less 474 00:34:11.460 --> 00:34:16.210 for it. There's no one, no one else does that. Yeah, Yeah. It's the magic 475 00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:19.810 of on and and you know, you don't pay if they don't click it also. Right? So 476 00:34:19.810 --> 00:34:23.480 it's that's the beauty of online advertising. Well, there's so much of 477 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:28.100 this book. His one takeaway was kind of back to what you're saying about 478 00:34:28.100 --> 00:34:31.949 testing, be open minded, bi curious B test if you've tested before, guess 479 00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:36.690 what things have changed. It's time it's time to test again, right? Maybe 480 00:34:36.690 --> 00:34:40.880 it's a B. T. Always be testing, right? Yeah, Yeah. Never, never stopped doing 481 00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:46.250 that. And uh constant iteration, but always always be testing things, Even 482 00:34:46.250 --> 00:34:50.120 little things because you start to stumble upon things that make your that 483 00:34:50.120 --> 00:34:54.960 make you more successful. Yeah. A little bit like the facebook book, this 484 00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.850 book really isn't just an in depth explanation of google ads, it's really 485 00:34:58.850 --> 00:35:02.690 a book about successful marketing principles and in that sense, I think 486 00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:05.850 it kind of over delivers on what I was expecting, right? Not just how to use 487 00:35:05.850 --> 00:35:09.500 google ads, but also how it leaves you with a great understanding of what 488 00:35:09.500 --> 00:35:13.840 makes great online marketing. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're not and and he's 489 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:17.420 even saying he's even saying, look, it's not all about google ads either. 490 00:35:17.430 --> 00:35:20.210 In other words, he'll be giving a talk somewhere and they'll say we're only 491 00:35:20.210 --> 00:35:23.730 doing google ads and he'll say, well are you all doing any facebook 492 00:35:23.730 --> 00:35:28.450 advertising? Oh no, he's like, no, there's a lot of you need to be really 493 00:35:28.450 --> 00:35:33.680 no, no, no. Yeah, totally worthwhile book. Excellent book. And I like that 494 00:35:33.680 --> 00:35:36.510 you've incorporated couple of these because it's an area that I don't 495 00:35:36.510 --> 00:35:41.000 always study. So good choice. Alright, Last up, we've got selling from the 496 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.050 heart how your authentic self cells you by Larry Levine. And I think you know 497 00:35:45.050 --> 00:35:48.950 that Larry and I are friends, so full disclosure. I think that selling from 498 00:35:48.950 --> 00:35:51.570 the heart kind of cuts right to the core of what's wrong with most sales 499 00:35:51.570 --> 00:35:55.550 and marketing today. I'll tease people with that. But maybe give us the low 500 00:35:55.550 --> 00:35:58.160 down on your interview with Larry Levy. Yeah, maybe you should do it. It's 501 00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:02.730 funny. I was at the outbound conference, the last one that was in person. So 502 00:36:02.730 --> 00:36:07.570 what is that like two years ago? Yeah. And I remember seeing you standing 503 00:36:07.570 --> 00:36:11.580 there and you were talking to Larry Levine and I walked by and I thought oh 504 00:36:11.580 --> 00:36:14.670 man that's Larry Levine, I should introduce myself. And I thought no, no, 505 00:36:14.680 --> 00:36:17.730 come on, you don't want people you know bothering him. It's like and I joked 506 00:36:17.730 --> 00:36:20.550 because he lives in L. A. He's a Dodgers fan. It was like, you know, you 507 00:36:20.550 --> 00:36:23.540 see celebrities all over Los Angeles since like I don't bother and let them 508 00:36:23.540 --> 00:36:28.200 eat their meal, you know? So now I've interviewed him, but I still haven't 509 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:34.480 met in person. But it was a great interview and he's very forthcoming and 510 00:36:34.490 --> 00:36:39.480 he does explain that something he talks about the end of the book, uh this 511 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.320 terrible malady that's going around the world in sales and it's not coronavirus, 512 00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:48.050 it's called commission breath. Uh huh. And if you're being used that phrase, 513 00:36:48.060 --> 00:36:53.550 yeah, if you're being inauthentic, people can smell that a mile away, 514 00:36:53.560 --> 00:36:58.750 don't try and fool humans. And so he really steered into that over the over 515 00:36:58.750 --> 00:37:02.540 the years and said, you know, I'm just I really I'm going to try and help 516 00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:07.930 people. And he wanted to be kind, he became more interested in his customers 517 00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:13.210 and just honest with folks. And there are a couple just real pearls that I 518 00:37:13.210 --> 00:37:16.690 pulled out of this, even things that, yeah, it works great with sales, but it 519 00:37:16.700 --> 00:37:20.040 also works well with marketing. And one of the ones that really just hit me 520 00:37:20.040 --> 00:37:27.850 over the head was a great salesperson is a student of their clients. Problems. 521 00:37:28.730 --> 00:37:32.830 They can never get enough information about the problems their clients have 522 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:39.030 and how they can better understand them and how they might be able to help them. 523 00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.260 And basically, I'm somebody who is being sold to all the time. A lot of 524 00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:46.700 listeners probably are. I know you are. How rare is it for somebody to come 525 00:37:46.710 --> 00:37:50.380 forward and saying, I think I kind of understand what some of the issues are 526 00:37:50.390 --> 00:37:54.500 that you're facing. Never. Yeah, I got good stuff here. You need to do. You 527 00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:58.050 want my stuff? Yeah. You want my stuff? Let me talk about me, let me talk about, 528 00:37:58.050 --> 00:38:03.950 you know, just the self orientation is, you really can see it two miles off and 529 00:38:04.020 --> 00:38:07.330 There's, there's so many rich things in here and it's, it's funny how he ties 530 00:38:07.330 --> 00:38:11.350 together so many things from the over 50 sales books that have been on the 531 00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:14.480 marketing podcast. But another thing that I really liked was he talked about 532 00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.480 the biggest problem with salespeople today. Is there consistently 533 00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:24.800 inconsistent with how they go about developing business, which I mean like 534 00:38:24.810 --> 00:38:29.890 uh Jeb blunt for instance, he'll say the number one reason for sales in the 535 00:38:29.900 --> 00:38:35.210 primary reason for failure in sales is a failure to prospect period. And Mark 536 00:38:35.210 --> 00:38:37.620 Connor, all these guys, they'll, they'll, they'll all talk about that 537 00:38:37.620 --> 00:38:41.430 you have to be consistent. Um, it's sort of like learning a new language or 538 00:38:41.430 --> 00:38:45.800 working out, but what they do is they go feast and famine. And he says that's 539 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:49.470 one of the, one of the biggest problems. And another thing that I found 540 00:38:49.470 --> 00:38:53.390 interesting that I've I've seen in several other books is he says that the 541 00:38:53.390 --> 00:38:59.650 one skill that every salesperson needs to develop and really develop well how 542 00:38:59.650 --> 00:39:05.570 to use the phone, I just can't know. I'm somebody who came a lot came around 543 00:39:05.570 --> 00:39:09.750 while we had was the phone. But I I could see how uh that's such a 544 00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:13.200 challenge, maybe more for younger people, a whole new generation of 545 00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:17.050 people that don't even know what that's like. Yeah, so it's, they'd rather just 546 00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:21.680 send things with text or social messages or emails. Right? Yeah, yeah. 547 00:39:21.690 --> 00:39:24.890 And another concept that's in the book that it's funny. After I interviewed 548 00:39:24.890 --> 00:39:27.510 him, I had a listener contact me and say, hey, we're looking for somebody to 549 00:39:27.510 --> 00:39:31.400 talk to us about, you know, a servant leadership. And I said, oh my goodness, 550 00:39:31.410 --> 00:39:36.840 I just interviewed him. He talks about servant led, uh, sales leadership. And 551 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:43.970 he talks about being service oriented rather than being reactive. Yeah. And 552 00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:46.330 modeling the behavior that you're looking for, right? So if you're a 553 00:39:46.330 --> 00:39:49.510 sales leader, you want to be modeling the behavior that you're exiting from 554 00:39:49.510 --> 00:39:53.720 your team, it's not do what I say, do what it do what I do, right? And also, 555 00:39:53.730 --> 00:39:59.860 he talks about providing service, meaning, not being reactive, but 556 00:39:59.860 --> 00:40:05.840 instead uh anticipating what a customer might be needing beforehand. He even 557 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:11.280 says to ask them that, right? Yeah. I mean, that's his his one thing he 558 00:40:11.290 --> 00:40:15.180 thought listeners could do is hey, become sales minded servant sales. My 559 00:40:15.180 --> 00:40:19.090 discernment, right? Ask customers how they would like to be served and their 560 00:40:19.090 --> 00:40:23.050 jaw will drop because no one has ever asked this question to them, right? 561 00:40:23.050 --> 00:40:26.680 They can't even believe that you're asking it. Oh yeah, I would be, I would 562 00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:31.160 be the same way and there's just so many great gems in here. And again, 563 00:40:31.170 --> 00:40:36.290 this is another one that applies to content. It applies to sales. He says, 564 00:40:36.290 --> 00:40:41.500 instead of worrying about being interesting, we need first to be 565 00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:47.710 interested. So some interest in your customer, whether you're in sales or 566 00:40:47.710 --> 00:40:51.550 marketing and of course to do that, you have to get to know them. That's why he 567 00:40:51.550 --> 00:40:56.580 talked about referrals as such a problem because he, he argues that 568 00:40:56.590 --> 00:40:59.730 sales people just don't know their customers as well as they think they do. 569 00:40:59.910 --> 00:41:02.890 Yeah. He very often refers to these kinds of sales people that are thinking 570 00:41:02.890 --> 00:41:05.720 about themselves and pretending to like, you know, to care about the customer is 571 00:41:05.720 --> 00:41:09.390 empty suits. Yes, that's right. That's right. He even had a sticker he sent me 572 00:41:09.390 --> 00:41:13.620 that said no empty suits. No empty suits. I thought he made it just for me. 573 00:41:13.620 --> 00:41:18.430 But apparently he uses at all uses it all the time. You know, one other super 574 00:41:18.430 --> 00:41:23.240 tactical, great idea he had was that when you're selling to an organization, 575 00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:29.020 You need to get intimately acquainted with at least six people inside every 576 00:41:29.020 --> 00:41:33.420 single one of your accounts. And I just that I thought back and I thought, yep, 577 00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:36.740 that's how I lost a few over the over the years because I couldn't I couldn't 578 00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:41.100 get through or I never bothered to, as they say, walk the halls, just find out 579 00:41:41.100 --> 00:41:44.660 what's going on. Sometimes we call that selling high and wide, right? Because 580 00:41:44.670 --> 00:41:48.120 you only have one connection and then that connection connection moves on or 581 00:41:48.130 --> 00:41:52.060 something goes trouble with that relationship. You're gone. Yeah. That's 582 00:41:52.060 --> 00:41:55.530 all you had. That was the only, what's the thing called? The Piton? When 583 00:41:55.530 --> 00:42:01.960 you're climbing a mountain face, you only have one when it goes you go. Yeah. 584 00:42:01.970 --> 00:42:06.290 And uh it's almost like I I could just see this on a KPI sheet. Like how many 585 00:42:06.290 --> 00:42:10.910 people do you know at your new client? Oh, just the person I'm selling too. 586 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:15.280 Well, you better get down there and start figuring out how to to do more of 587 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:19.270 a swarming offense there. And how can you really say that you're trying to 588 00:42:19.270 --> 00:42:22.820 really serve this customer? If you only understand the perspective of one 589 00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:27.560 person inside this organization, Right? So I think that speaks to his whole 590 00:42:27.560 --> 00:42:30.050 point about being authentic of being genuine is you have to really have to 591 00:42:30.050 --> 00:42:33.060 understand what they're trying to do because sometimes even your best coach 592 00:42:33.060 --> 00:42:36.810 may not know exactly all the right path to take to navigate the company and 593 00:42:36.810 --> 00:42:41.230 everything. Yeah. Sorry. If you hear my co host for my podcast barking in the 594 00:42:41.230 --> 00:42:47.540 background, there it is some federal employee in a blue suit delivering mail 595 00:42:47.540 --> 00:42:51.760 is just size and nuts. The darn guy keeps showing up even though he barks 596 00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:55.550 at him. What's in that box? Yes, that's right. A couple other things he talked 597 00:42:55.550 --> 00:42:59.970 about which were just universal, not just for sales. He says it's the post 598 00:42:59.970 --> 00:43:05.120 sale where the magic happens. And he said that was always his secret sauce. 599 00:43:05.700 --> 00:43:09.410 You know, it's, it's not about getting the money moving on. The real money is 600 00:43:09.410 --> 00:43:13.560 in after you make that first sale, get further in, meet those other six people 601 00:43:13.560 --> 00:43:17.290 find out what's going on in the organization. Once you're in, that's an 602 00:43:17.290 --> 00:43:20.900 invaluable opportunity that is too often squandered by somebody who runs 603 00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:25.240 off to the next to the next sale. But before we wrap up, I've just got to say, 604 00:43:25.250 --> 00:43:30.050 I think there was only like 10 chapters and one of the chapters was all about 605 00:43:30.050 --> 00:43:34.780 continuing education. And so people listening to this are probably into 606 00:43:34.790 --> 00:43:39.800 educating themselves. But he talks about how If you're a sales person and 607 00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:47.430 you have not spent one of your income of your own money on your success, 608 00:43:47.900 --> 00:43:52.380 you're not educating yourself. But he talks about one of the big things that 609 00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:55.890 helped him a lot and I know this sounds like a, you know, a plug for the market 610 00:43:55.890 --> 00:43:59.710 book podcast, but he said he started reading a lot, He read a lot of books, 611 00:43:59.710 --> 00:44:03.060 he still does read a lot of books, but he just talks about all these different 612 00:44:03.060 --> 00:44:06.720 ways that you should be continuing to educate yourself, don't wait for your 613 00:44:06.720 --> 00:44:14.600 company to be educating your yourself. And another thing that he he even says 614 00:44:14.600 --> 00:44:17.690 like, what was the last podcast you listened to or what was the last sales 615 00:44:17.690 --> 00:44:22.750 book you read? And uh I mean even a knuckleheaded podcast host can read one 616 00:44:22.750 --> 00:44:29.560 book a week. I know a guy who does that. So think about fishing books are, I 617 00:44:29.560 --> 00:44:32.680 mean, not to get off topic here, but you've got somebody who's crammed 618 00:44:32.680 --> 00:44:37.590 probably 10, 15 years worth of experience in into just a few pages 619 00:44:37.590 --> 00:44:41.230 that you can read and you know, in a week, right, where else you gonna get 620 00:44:41.230 --> 00:44:46.280 that for 15 bucks or whatever does it cost? Right. I mean time in to to 621 00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:49.040 benefit out? You probably can't be books. Yeah, a lot of these books, it's 622 00:44:49.040 --> 00:44:53.040 almost like the I think I I often wonder if the ink is made from the 623 00:44:53.040 --> 00:44:57.360 author's blood because they pour themselves into it. I've never written 624 00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:01.060 a book. I probably never will. But I could, you can't imagine what it's 625 00:45:01.060 --> 00:45:07.670 right like writing a book and they It's like you're spending 4-6 hours 1-1 with 626 00:45:07.670 --> 00:45:13.590 this author who is sharing with you what works just, it's amazing. That's 627 00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:17.730 why I loved the podcast because I just and the more I learned, the more I 628 00:45:17.730 --> 00:45:21.340 realized, I don't know, so, but you know, another chapter, an entire 629 00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:26.610 chapter was on content. Okay, now this is a sales guy. He is like one of the 630 00:45:26.610 --> 00:45:30.820 masters of the universe, but he talks about how sales professionals learn how 631 00:45:30.820 --> 00:45:35.430 to digitally fish in the same online ocean that their clients and prospects 632 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:39.790 educate themselves in. And he, even when he does training, he'll ask people, 633 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:45.490 do you think it's easier or more difficult now to prospect? And it's 634 00:45:45.490 --> 00:45:48.190 interesting to hear what people say? They all say. It's harder. He says he 635 00:45:48.190 --> 00:45:52.710 thinks it's easier now because you can get so much while it's harder to get 636 00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:57.860 through. You can start to find out more information about the prospect or their 637 00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:03.090 prospects company and you know, even if you are not producing your own content 638 00:46:03.100 --> 00:46:06.260 or you don't have a marketing department or whatever. He talks about 639 00:46:06.260 --> 00:46:11.280 how every salesperson can build their own content library, because every you 640 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:16.250 collect all this information that your prospects can find helpful. Well, you 641 00:46:16.250 --> 00:46:19.800 can use that. You don't have to use that for just one prospect. You can use 642 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:24.810 it for all your prospects. And it's interesting. I mean, he was enormously 643 00:46:24.810 --> 00:46:29.640 successful and he's basically showing you what he did. So I'll stop talking 644 00:46:29.640 --> 00:46:34.040 about it. But it's a tough industry in a tough industry Tuesday. Yes, copy 645 00:46:34.040 --> 00:46:38.070 machines, yes, office equipment, that kind of stuff, right? Like pretty 646 00:46:38.070 --> 00:46:42.720 commoditized. But that's why him being authentic and trying to help Being with 647 00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:46.360 the customer, right? Being genuine is the differentiator, right? It wasn't 648 00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:52.230 the equipment. So his one takeaway for listeners was just to hold yourself 100 649 00:46:52.230 --> 00:46:55.780 accountable for your own personal growth. Right back to that continuing 650 00:46:55.780 --> 00:47:00.020 education you mentioned a minute ago. So obviously I'm biased because he and 651 00:47:00.020 --> 00:47:02.800 I are friends. But I personally think that every sales professional, both old 652 00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.040 news should read the book. I really think marketers can benefit from from 653 00:47:06.040 --> 00:47:10.050 it as well because it's about being genuine and authentic. And that leads 654 00:47:10.050 --> 00:47:13.810 to all the most effective activities in both sales and marketing in my past. 655 00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:18.880 Absolutely. I've got hundreds of books like thinking back up you just said, 656 00:47:18.890 --> 00:47:24.240 and I even I have a feeling that I get more marketing ideas for reading sales 657 00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:28.600 books sometimes that I might get from marketing books. It's not a fair 658 00:47:28.600 --> 00:47:32.490 comparison because I'm learning about something. But when I read a sales book, 659 00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:37.350 all I can think about is, oh man, they could these guys could be using this or 660 00:47:37.350 --> 00:47:41.800 this would be helpful for them or this kind of content or you know, that type 661 00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.790 of things. Well, it's one thing I really love about your show is that 662 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:48.370 it's all a continuum right from the very, very top of the funnel, all the 663 00:47:48.370 --> 00:47:51.960 way to the very bottom of the funnel and really post funnel and you're not 664 00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.740 just focusing on one little pieces of that. Right? So I think your your show 665 00:47:55.740 --> 00:47:59.320 is really the most broad spectrum and being able to touch all those things. 666 00:47:59.330 --> 00:48:05.020 Yeah, I know we're supposed to mitch but I do this for fun and that's why 667 00:48:05.020 --> 00:48:08.700 I'm I'm always so surprised how many sales people listen to the marketing 668 00:48:08.710 --> 00:48:12.810 podcast. Either that it was just more vocal because I I hear from these 669 00:48:12.810 --> 00:48:16.590 people, but it also brings to mind the story from Mark Hunters last book of 670 00:48:16.590 --> 00:48:19.970 Mine for sales where he was consulting with a client and there were these two 671 00:48:19.970 --> 00:48:24.540 young salespeople and they were doing really, really well to the point where 672 00:48:24.540 --> 00:48:28.310 the client thought that these guys might be doing something illegal. Did 673 00:48:28.310 --> 00:48:31.770 you hear this story? Yes, I remember this. And so they said to Mark like 674 00:48:31.770 --> 00:48:35.020 Mark, you know while you're doing this project we need you to kind of keep an 675 00:48:35.020 --> 00:48:38.480 eye on these two because we just don't know what they're doing. And it turned 676 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:42.480 out they were spending all their free time with the marketing people. Yeah. 677 00:48:42.490 --> 00:48:47.070 See there you go. So it was like you say, the best earners are the best 678 00:48:47.070 --> 00:48:50.960 learners. Yes, that's right. The big earners are the big learners of the big 679 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:55.430 earners. That's right. Yes. Well that is it this month's books all phenomenal, 680 00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:58.940 all phenomenal. I'll former X and I love them all. Um, what do we got 681 00:48:58.940 --> 00:49:02.580 coming up on the market? But podcasts? Well, if this episode wasn't long 682 00:49:02.580 --> 00:49:06.010 enough, next time we're gonna talk about five books, we'll try to go fast. 683 00:49:06.010 --> 00:49:10.940 Yes, I'm sorry. Um, I know. Well, hopefully somebody listen to this while 684 00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:14.000 they were doing it a long drive somewhere. I hope there is somebody 685 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.670 driving these days. The first is sustainable marketing. How to drive 686 00:49:17.670 --> 00:49:23.900 profits with purpose by Michelle, Carville, Gemma, Butler and Grant Evans. 687 00:49:24.670 --> 00:49:30.670 They're british and, and grant guarantee he's well, so I, I hope I got 688 00:49:30.670 --> 00:49:34.940 his name right, binge marketing. The best scenario for building your brand 689 00:49:34.940 --> 00:49:41.710 by car lane post MMA, My first dutch author I've interviewed activate brand 690 00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:45.840 purpose, how to harness the power of movements to transform your company by 691 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.950 scott goodson and chip walker. Sounds fascinating. Yeah. Uh the undefeated 692 00:49:50.950 --> 00:49:54.490 marketing system, How to grow your business and build your audience using 693 00:49:54.490 --> 00:50:00.110 the secret formula that elects presidents by Phillip stutts And 694 00:50:00.110 --> 00:50:05.260 finally marketing 5.0 Technology for humanity by Philip Kotler. The father 695 00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:10.410 of modern marketing. He's going to be 90 years old this spring and his co 696 00:50:10.410 --> 00:50:16.030 authors are Hermawan cartagena and I wan Setiawan and I interviewed dr 697 00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:21.280 Kotler for episode 100 a few years ago about marketing four point oh, so 698 00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:25.030 anyway, that's it for this month's B two B growth Show Book Talk. Thanks for 699 00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:28.280 staying with us to learn more about the marketing book podcast, visit marketing 700 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:31.690 book podcast dot com and to learn more about James in his excellent book, the 701 00:50:31.690 --> 00:50:39.390 perfect clothes visit pure mirror dot com. And that's spelled P U R E M U I R 702 00:50:39.770 --> 00:50:43.080 dot com. And as I mentioned earlier, if either of us can recommend any 703 00:50:43.080 --> 00:50:46.120 marketing or sales, books or other resources for whatever situation you 704 00:50:46.120 --> 00:50:49.700 find yourself in or what you'd like to learn more about, please feel free to 705 00:50:49.700 --> 00:50:53.100 connect with us on linkedin where we can chat and we'll do our best to get 706 00:50:53.100 --> 00:50:59.780 you pointed in the right direction. But please please include a message with 707 00:50:59.780 --> 00:51:04.150 your invitation to connect on linkedin. Otherwise we're gonna, we may miss it 708 00:51:04.160 --> 00:51:09.700 and we're going to just assume europe a filthy spam. But and remember the words 709 00:51:09.700 --> 00:51:14.280 of the late great Jim Rohn who said formal education will make you a living 710 00:51:14.580 --> 00:51:19.270 self education will make you a fortune, Okay. 711 00:51:21.560 --> 00:51:25.380 Yeah. one of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that 712 00:51:25.390 --> 00:51:30.230 word of mouth works. It works really, really well actually. So if you love 713 00:51:30.230 --> 00:51:33.880 this show, it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. 714 00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:37.660 And if you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your 715 00:51:37.660 --> 00:51:41.670 friend meta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book, content based 716 00:51:41.670 --> 00:51:45.480 networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell 717 00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:53.480 phone number is 40749033 to 8. Happy texting. Mhm Yeah.