Who Really Does the Buying? Buying-Center vs Decision-Maker Marketing with Nima Asrar Haghighi

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.250 Mhm. 2 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:09.680 Hello and welcome in to be to be growth. I'm your host Benji Block today. We're 3 00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:15.160 excited to be joined by Neema. Name is the VP of marketing at Air Table and a 4 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:20.380 marketing executive advisor at kong nam. A welcome into the show and we're so 5 00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:24.110 Glad to have you here on B two B growth. Thanks Benji, thanks for having me and 6 00:00:24.110 --> 00:00:29.700 I'm excited to chat with you. Absolutely. Now you have spent time at 7 00:00:29.710 --> 00:00:34.470 Ebay on the client side. You were at mule soft at a time of explosive growth 8 00:00:34.470 --> 00:00:40.950 but just give us a quick snapshot of your experience and uh what landed you 9 00:00:40.950 --> 00:00:46.800 where you are today? Yeah, happy to share. So earlier part of my career I 10 00:00:46.800 --> 00:00:50.480 was mostly on the agency side then decided to move to the client side 11 00:00:50.480 --> 00:00:54.370 where you could see the results of the work that you're doing and then a joint 12 00:00:54.370 --> 00:00:59.220 Ebay where you were able to run campaigns that really high scale. And 13 00:00:59.220 --> 00:01:05.349 then of course I decided to join your soft smaller company and help build a 14 00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:10.320 kind of the whole demand generation team from Scratch, going through from a 15 00:01:10.330 --> 00:01:15.100 65 people company to go in through the I. P. O. Getting acquired by Salesforce 16 00:01:15.110 --> 00:01:20.080 and then decided to get all the learnings and repurpose it somewhere 17 00:01:20.080 --> 00:01:25.870 else. Or I could do what I've done in the past at a faster pace and decided 18 00:01:25.870 --> 00:01:31.210 on irritable because really good company, really good product, everybody 19 00:01:31.220 --> 00:01:36.900 who has used it loves it and the product the go to market motion. It's 20 00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:42.750 also a product that growth and we are mixing it up with B two B sales motion 21 00:01:42.750 --> 00:01:47.630 as well. And it's it was a really appealing experience. And that's why I 22 00:01:47.630 --> 00:01:53.620 joined uh irritable about nine months ago. Yeah, So you like seeing growth, 23 00:01:53.620 --> 00:01:57.270 but you also like being in at the beginning when there's so much to be 24 00:01:57.270 --> 00:02:01.480 shaped and formed. And I love that. And I think that will really shine through 25 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:07.420 in our conversation today. That's where the fun is. And uh for better for worse, 26 00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:11.240 you're going to have your fingerprints on the growth side of it. So that's 27 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:15.960 where you are able to see the result of the work that you're putting in too 28 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:21.980 much faster and uh see the growth over time. Yeah, absolutely. So over the 29 00:02:21.980 --> 00:02:26.090 next few minutes, what I want to do is I want to dig into your vantage point, 30 00:02:26.090 --> 00:02:31.350 your perspective when it comes to identifying and selling to a buying 31 00:02:31.350 --> 00:02:36.820 center versus a single decision maker. So outlined for us, what we're talking 32 00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:42.760 about when we think of the differences between a single decision maker and a 33 00:02:42.770 --> 00:02:47.940 buying center. Yeah. Happy to do that. Before I go there though, at a high 34 00:02:47.940 --> 00:02:54.130 level when when you're trying to sell to a BtV organization compared to when 35 00:02:54.130 --> 00:02:59.620 you're selling to a company. That is just the decision making is much easier. 36 00:02:59.620 --> 00:03:04.740 It's a product that could be used only by one person. You could just sell to 37 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:08.630 that one person and you know, where you're standing with them when it comes 38 00:03:08.630 --> 00:03:13.470 to the more complex sales emotions. Usually there Are more than one person 39 00:03:13.470 --> 00:03:18.200 who are involved in the decision making whether or not you see that person as 40 00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:22.430 part of the conversation or not behind the scene. There is always other people 41 00:03:22.430 --> 00:03:29.040 who are doing the research and making the cow. For example, I remember back 42 00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:35.090 in the days at Mill South, uh some people were reaching out to our head of 43 00:03:35.090 --> 00:03:38.940 marketing, uh they wanted to sell something to him, he was basically 44 00:03:38.950 --> 00:03:42.220 training me on the side. What do you think about this company? Should I even 45 00:03:42.220 --> 00:03:46.210 spent my time with them before even getting in various. Right? So I was the 46 00:03:46.210 --> 00:03:50.380 one that I was doing the research early on and kind of making a point of view 47 00:03:50.380 --> 00:03:56.670 and then do do that selling right? But it's like when you're Doing that B- two 48 00:03:56.670 --> 00:03:59.650 B cells motion to a more complex environments, 49 00:04:00.740 --> 00:04:04.680 it's like a tip of an iceberg. When a salesperson is talking to one person, 50 00:04:04.690 --> 00:04:08.120 you're just saying what's happening there. Whereas the reality is that 51 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.160 there might be so many people who are going to be part of that decision 52 00:04:11.160 --> 00:04:16.170 making. And then there is always some people who are supportive of their 53 00:04:16.170 --> 00:04:19.300 product and there would be people who would not necessarily be supportive of 54 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:25.360 your product. So you have to find what who those people are, how to engage 55 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:30.180 different people and being everybody along. So the thinking is that rather 56 00:04:30.180 --> 00:04:35.050 than thinking about What kind of a 1-1 sales and marketing motion, but we want 57 00:04:35.050 --> 00:04:41.510 to have to go after a whole buying center and understand who the economic 58 00:04:41.510 --> 00:04:47.360 wire is, who's the technical evaluator is, who is the, the person who is 59 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.540 actually going to use the product, because each of those are going to have 60 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:55.630 different requirements and be able to kind of have answers for all those 61 00:04:55.640 --> 00:05:01.230 situations and uh, communicated everybody in the buying sensor, right? 62 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:05.560 As someone who was in the sales department, but was not the decision 63 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:11.330 maker. I've felt the tension here where there's a difference between what top 64 00:05:11.340 --> 00:05:15.140 was thinking and what the practitioners were thinking. And so I think it's so 65 00:05:15.140 --> 00:05:19.690 important to kind of know your audience and who you're talking to and being 66 00:05:19.690 --> 00:05:24.900 able to get by in right from all the voices that really do need to have a 67 00:05:24.900 --> 00:05:29.650 say Ultimately for the product to be a success, one person may act like 68 00:05:29.660 --> 00:05:33.990 actually sign off on it, right, But you need a team to buy in and adopt for 69 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:39.000 true success with that in mind. Why do you think some organizations lack this, 70 00:05:39.010 --> 00:05:43.610 this buying center approach? Why do you think we get stuck In this 1 - one 71 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:51.600 thinking? Yeah, so some of it is uh, kind of convenience. Right? So you 72 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:55.920 build a relationship and it's always easier to build relationship with one 73 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:59.690 person versus multiple people, the other part of it is also visibility, 74 00:05:59.700 --> 00:06:03.750 right? Even if you want to do that, you might or might not necessarily have 75 00:06:03.750 --> 00:06:10.010 that visibility into who else is involved into these processes and 76 00:06:10.010 --> 00:06:14.230 that's why I kind of building the infrastructure and technology that 77 00:06:14.230 --> 00:06:18.990 helps you create that insight is going to be super important and making sure 78 00:06:18.990 --> 00:06:22.950 that you provide that insight to the sales organization so that they know 79 00:06:22.960 --> 00:06:27.140 yes, you're talking to this Person, but there are the other five or six other 80 00:06:27.140 --> 00:06:31.170 people who are also are researching based on what we see what they're doing 81 00:06:31.170 --> 00:06:37.810 on the website or on the third party websites, uh based on that identify 82 00:06:37.810 --> 00:06:43.960 other people that you could engage in the process and get them in front of 83 00:06:43.970 --> 00:06:49.030 getting in front of them. So some of it is uh, lack of visibility, some of it 84 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:55.530 is convenience. And if we find ways to automate that process and create that 85 00:06:55.530 --> 00:06:59.320 visibility for the cells, it's going to be important. The other part of it is 86 00:06:59.320 --> 00:07:05.330 also the systems. Right? So most of the companies for example use Salesforce as 87 00:07:05.330 --> 00:07:10.080 their platform, right? And for sales for us to be able to measure things 88 00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:14.360 that they're looking at the contact that is added to the opportunity. Right? 89 00:07:14.370 --> 00:07:19.270 So that's a lot of manual work for a lot of the sales people and they don't 90 00:07:19.270 --> 00:07:23.990 not necessarily add every single person to the opportunities. And also there 91 00:07:23.990 --> 00:07:27.620 might be some times that they invite somebody during the cull and then other 92 00:07:27.620 --> 00:07:31.370 people inviting their colleagues into the meetings. But you don't necessarily 93 00:07:31.370 --> 00:07:36.150 have That 1-1 relationship with them. So you don't necessarily even have the 94 00:07:36.150 --> 00:07:40.900 contact information to go after them and chat with them. Right? So it 95 00:07:40.900 --> 00:07:45.600 becomes very important to kind of create a account mapping what is the 96 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.930 account that you want to go after? Who are the decision makers and who are the 97 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:54.380 traitors? Who are the promoters. And based on that try to create proper 98 00:07:54.380 --> 00:08:00.320 messages and get get in front of them with all those related content and have 99 00:08:00.320 --> 00:08:05.610 that conversation at a more granular level with them while trying to sell to 100 00:08:05.610 --> 00:08:11.100 the tough level decision maker uh being the rest of the buying center along as 101 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:15.110 well. So let's talk about messaging for a second when it comes to thinking 102 00:08:15.110 --> 00:08:20.340 about messaging for these multiple different personas. What are you 103 00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:24.850 strategically thinking about? And maybe just could you provide an example of 104 00:08:24.850 --> 00:08:33.039 how that messaging may differ slightly? Yeah. So for example I use uh example 105 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:39.020 at the muse of times, right? So for example we were trying to sell to the C. 106 00:08:39.020 --> 00:08:43.539 I. O. S. Right? So the message that might have resonated with C. IOS would 107 00:08:43.539 --> 00:08:46.350 have been that how to kind of uh 108 00:08:47.540 --> 00:08:54.150 have a more efficient uh business. The challenge that they had was that the 109 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:58.240 request that comes to the Icty was growing dramatically. But the resources 110 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:03.990 were not growing as fast. Right? So it was a matter of how to find ways to 111 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:11.030 accomplish more uh faster with limited resources. Right? So that's the type of 112 00:09:11.030 --> 00:09:14.360 message that resonates very well with the decision maker and the C. I. O. 113 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:20.950 Right? But then if you go with the same message with the developer, yes. They 114 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.170 might care to some extent, but they care about how does this product 115 00:09:25.170 --> 00:09:29.880 actually changed my day to day job. Right? How am I gonna be connecting the 116 00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:34.650 data sources? That's the level of the kind of the granularity that they're 117 00:09:34.650 --> 00:09:38.580 looking for. And then there are some cases that they're within any company. 118 00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:41.960 There are people who have worked with other vendors in the past and they have 119 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:47.310 their own preferences and they might you might not be the preferred account. 120 00:09:47.310 --> 00:09:51.950 So as a result, they might have uh there might be your detractors right, 121 00:09:51.950 --> 00:09:58.340 identifying who those are and have the kind of the ballot cards that are 122 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:04.150 available that you could use in your conversations to make sure that you use 123 00:10:04.160 --> 00:10:11.830 kind of those uh battle cars to either have traps in those conversations or 124 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:16.750 basically, if the questions comes in, be able to answer them and show your 125 00:10:16.760 --> 00:10:22.140 unique value proposition. So is that just for you, like a couple separate 126 00:10:22.150 --> 00:10:25.940 sheets saying like this is a persona, here's the information you need when 127 00:10:25.940 --> 00:10:28.900 you're talking to this person and and that's kind of how your team has access 128 00:10:28.900 --> 00:10:35.000 to it. Yeah, yeah, that's that's one way to look at it for sure. And then at 129 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:41.250 a high level and then you also build, for example, when you're at new self, 130 00:10:41.250 --> 00:10:46.010 we built this what we call S. T. O. P. Or single view of prospecting. So it 131 00:10:46.010 --> 00:10:51.550 was a platform that we built, which we are building here at air table as well 132 00:10:51.550 --> 00:10:56.960 using our own product table to create a dam digital asset management that 133 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:03.260 basically has, creates a kind of creative view of all the assets that we 134 00:11:03.260 --> 00:11:08.130 have available by persona, by type of the company, the customer stories that 135 00:11:08.130 --> 00:11:13.150 they could have visibility into. So by using that to build that digital 136 00:11:13.150 --> 00:11:18.130 assessments must imagine for the sales process on top of their table, we are 137 00:11:18.130 --> 00:11:23.690 now able to kind of enable the sales organization what type of communication 138 00:11:23.690 --> 00:11:28.200 to have each of the personas, What are the right assets to share them? At what 139 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:34.300 stage? So that's that's one that you could sell for them. Hey, everybody 140 00:11:34.310 --> 00:11:37.690 Logan with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the show for a while, 141 00:11:37.700 --> 00:11:42.100 you know, we're big proponents of putting out original organic content on 142 00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:46.280 linked in. But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is 143 00:11:46.280 --> 00:11:49.960 to easily track the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I was 144 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.330 really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from a connection 145 00:11:53.330 --> 00:11:57.920 on you guessed it linked in since our team started using shield. I've loved 146 00:11:57.920 --> 00:12:02.300 how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance of our linkedin 147 00:12:02.300 --> 00:12:07.030 content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates 148 00:12:07.030 --> 00:12:10.810 reports and generate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see 149 00:12:10.810 --> 00:12:14.250 things like what contents been performing the best and what days of 150 00:12:14.250 --> 00:12:17.880 the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views per 151 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:21.660 post. I'd highly suggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting out 152 00:12:21.660 --> 00:12:25.880 content on linked in and if you're not, you should be. It's been a game changer 153 00:12:25.880 --> 00:12:31.150 for us. If you go to shield app dot Ai and check out the 10 day free trial, 154 00:12:31.150 --> 00:12:36.780 you can even use our promo code B two B growth to get a 25% discount again. 155 00:12:36.780 --> 00:12:43.240 That's shield app dot Ai. And that promo code is B the number to be growth. 156 00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:51.130 All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. Let's talk about how this 157 00:12:51.130 --> 00:12:54.880 could impact marketing because this obviously when we talk messaging, 158 00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:59.960 that's cross different parts of an organization. So where do you think 159 00:12:59.970 --> 00:13:04.780 marketing is impacted here? How do they have a voice in some of the messaging 160 00:13:04.780 --> 00:13:09.210 that maybe sales ends up using? What's that that process like? Yeah. So 161 00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:15.040 definitely messaging. We try to build it in the marketing and there would be 162 00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:19.430 a lot of collaboration and work for the cells leadership to understand what's 163 00:13:19.430 --> 00:13:22.740 actually resonating in the market or not. But at the end of the day on the 164 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:27.380 marketing side, you built that messaging and then once you build it, 165 00:13:27.390 --> 00:13:33.100 what is important. That's what one of the secret to success at me yourself 166 00:13:33.100 --> 00:13:38.010 was that we got everybody in the company regardless of the role that you 167 00:13:38.010 --> 00:13:43.420 were in. Okay enabled and educated on our messaging. Everybody got certified 168 00:13:43.420 --> 00:13:47.660 on our messages so that everybody in the company uses the same language when 169 00:13:47.660 --> 00:13:51.220 they're talking to either the prospects for the family and what they're doing 170 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:56.130 on a day to day basis. So once you have that consistency, then you are able to 171 00:13:56.130 --> 00:14:00.690 kind of get the message into the market and that way, what did that look like 172 00:14:00.690 --> 00:14:04.390 for you guys? How are you doing that? And uh as far as just making sure 173 00:14:04.390 --> 00:14:10.030 everyone was on the same page. Yeah. So it was a certification program. So the 174 00:14:10.030 --> 00:14:15.080 way we did it, we basically created the messaging framework based on that. We 175 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:21.290 created the video and uh we had a few examples that were built and shared it 176 00:14:21.300 --> 00:14:26.050 across the organization. And then they asked everybody to review it. And then 177 00:14:26.050 --> 00:14:30.610 when everybody reviewed it, then uh they had exhausted take and the way the 178 00:14:30.610 --> 00:14:35.850 example was like I assume this is the person that you're trying to sell to 179 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:40.700 just give that presentation and you have to write your own presentation 180 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:44.380 using the messaging framework and then you were going through a live 181 00:14:44.380 --> 00:14:51.960 presentation and then they had people define, define as uh kind of uh 30 182 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:57.510 fires who were first certified as black belt after this messaging, and those 183 00:14:57.510 --> 00:15:01.420 guys were basically scoring and then it was going down, each manager becomes 184 00:15:01.420 --> 00:15:05.330 the next level of black belt and then they were certifying their team and 185 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:09.330 that's how we scaled it. And everybody in the company was basically able to 186 00:15:09.340 --> 00:15:14.390 sing from the same sheet. That's awesome. You said exam and you made, my 187 00:15:14.390 --> 00:15:17.710 heart starts beating faster, but then you said black belt and then I was back 188 00:15:17.710 --> 00:15:25.550 in. So I love that. Okay, I love it. We have the messages for practitioners, We 189 00:15:25.550 --> 00:15:29.400 got those that are executives and we thought through what we want to talk to 190 00:15:29.400 --> 00:15:33.080 that's really going to hit home for them at some point, those things need 191 00:15:33.090 --> 00:15:38.130 to cross, right? At some point, we need to either have all of them in the same 192 00:15:38.130 --> 00:15:43.380 room. So what are some practical ways that you've facilitated that to have 193 00:15:43.380 --> 00:15:47.610 that messaging eventually cross and have those people talking to each other 194 00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:52.340 to make decisions? The challenge is that when you're trying to sell is that 195 00:15:52.340 --> 00:15:56.600 when you go and high levels, for example, to this talking to a C I O. 196 00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:01.660 They are thinking about the business impact kind of type of messages, right? 197 00:16:01.670 --> 00:16:04.840 Whereas where you're going to the practitioners and you're talking to 198 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:09.490 those guys, they care about their day to day lives and how they could make 199 00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:14.080 stuff happen, Right? So, and those two messages do not might not necessarily 200 00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:20.190 kind of be the same, but so if the ceo goes to the team, so I want to do this, 201 00:16:20.190 --> 00:16:23.860 and then if the rest of the team does not necessarily understand the vision, 202 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:29.110 they might not necessarily buying to the uh kind of the mission that the 203 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:35.080 team has, right? And then it's vice versa if the kind of practitioners are 204 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:39.850 brought into the product, but then the C I O, for example, has not understood 205 00:16:39.850 --> 00:16:44.550 how it fits into the strategy. You might not get enough budget to buy the 206 00:16:44.550 --> 00:16:49.040 product, Right? So it's all about Bringing the two together and be able 207 00:16:49.040 --> 00:16:54.820 to go up and down the elevator. How do you do that? Is basically identifying 208 00:16:54.820 --> 00:16:59.650 ways to connect The dots between those two. Uh for example, you could run 209 00:16:59.660 --> 00:17:05.670 programs, right? So you would have a session on with the decision makers, 210 00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:11.069 and in that event you're talking about the whole strategy and the vision of 211 00:17:11.069 --> 00:17:16.079 where you could go with the product and then explain how it could impact the 212 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:21.010 team's, right? And then you have a separate one with the kind of the 213 00:17:21.020 --> 00:17:27.069 practitioners, and you basically said not only this does the jobs that to be 214 00:17:27.069 --> 00:17:31.610 done, and could be, take care of all the jobs that you have, but also this 215 00:17:31.610 --> 00:17:38.160 is how it helps you uh kind of create that vision for your overall 216 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.550 organization on your C I. O. And then you would also run a kind of the joint 217 00:17:42.550 --> 00:17:47.220 program that is basically Bringing the two together and how to think about the 218 00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:53.290 potential workshops that uh how the product is helping the practitioners 219 00:17:53.300 --> 00:17:57.880 kind of create that vision for the customer, for the customers. So that's 220 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:00.760 how you're able to kind of bring those two messages together, 221 00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:06.470 so someone's listening and they're going you got me convinced. We we have 222 00:18:06.470 --> 00:18:10.470 to get more specific in our messaging. We need to have strategy to reach both 223 00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:14.960 executives practitioners. Where would you tell them to to start? And let's 224 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.700 try to kind of get a little specific here. Where would you tell them to 225 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:23.420 begin? Yeah. The debates uh the answer is depends on where you are in your 226 00:18:23.420 --> 00:18:28.570 journey in the company and the type of business you are. Right. So if your 227 00:18:28.580 --> 00:18:33.290 your your product is a product that is a very kind of the top down approach, 228 00:18:33.290 --> 00:18:39.370 you probably want to start with kind of the uh top level messaging and then 229 00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:45.250 after that goes buttons up. But if it's your habit product that is very uh for 230 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:52.930 example, like news of being open source or with air table being very product 231 00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:56.790 led growth bottoms up, kind of an approach. In those cases, you might 232 00:18:56.790 --> 00:19:01.890 have to start kind of uh with that because there is a lot more grants all 233 00:19:01.890 --> 00:19:05.590 there. But knowing that for you to be able to change the narrative, you need 234 00:19:05.590 --> 00:19:09.810 to go after the other audience as well. So that's how you're prioritizing and 235 00:19:09.810 --> 00:19:14.680 then depending on your motion, you're able to kind of adjust so depending on 236 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:19.750 where you are, but usually what happens, a lot of companies try in the back in 237 00:19:19.750 --> 00:19:24.510 the days, it was very top down, so if you look at the oracle and IBM back in 238 00:19:24.510 --> 00:19:28.150 the days, that was a very top down approach and they're selling motion and 239 00:19:28.150 --> 00:19:31.440 then there were the open source came along and the product that growth came 240 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.420 up and they were very poor themselves. So the model is going to be very 241 00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:40.090 different but the reality is that both companies are both business models are 242 00:19:40.090 --> 00:19:44.810 coming to a convergence to some extent people who are very top down there 243 00:19:44.810 --> 00:19:48.350 trying to go to Prg model and the people who have been very bottoms up 244 00:19:48.350 --> 00:19:52.220 there are adding the enterprise sales motion and those who are coming to get 245 00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:56.600 it right. So depending on where you are in that journey, the answer might be 246 00:19:56.600 --> 00:20:00.740 different, but based on where you are, you want to start with the low hanging 247 00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:03.950 fruit and then I find your way to the other side, 248 00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:08.930 what do you think are some of the pitfalls maybe that you experience 249 00:20:08.930 --> 00:20:13.650 along the way when it comes to this approach and and and drilling down on 250 00:20:13.650 --> 00:20:17.730 messaging, what do you think are some things people should avoid or or maybe 251 00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:22.970 be aware of Yeah, One of the things that I've seen quite a bit, especially 252 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:30.860 in the technology space is that we love our phrases digital transformation. So 253 00:20:30.860 --> 00:20:38.640 things like that. Right? So we to go high level, sometimes we go to wake. So 254 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.270 when you land on somebody's website at that point and you have no clue what 255 00:20:42.270 --> 00:20:47.760 they are, you're spending 10, 15 minutes, Okay. What whats their 256 00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:51.750 offering? Why should I even care about talking to them? Right. So finding that 257 00:20:51.750 --> 00:20:56.240 balance of being high level to set up the vision and be able to create a 258 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:01.900 category is one element. The other part is to stay connected to reality of what 259 00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:06.070 people are looking for. Right? So because on a daily basis people think 260 00:21:06.070 --> 00:21:09.560 about their pain points. That's what I call pain point marketing. Right? So 261 00:21:09.560 --> 00:21:12.540 you always think about what is people's pain point and you're trying to solve 262 00:21:12.540 --> 00:21:16.630 for them people for example, in the morning. So I can have difficulty 263 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:21.640 getting my data from this place to that place. How could I solve that problem? 264 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:26.140 But somebody doesn't say I wake up in the morning, say today I need to solve 265 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:30.820 my digital transformation problems. Right? So that's so it's it's the same 266 00:21:30.820 --> 00:21:33.200 thing at the end of the day, you're going the route of digital 267 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:39.970 transformation, but it has been used in a way that has lost some of the meaning. 268 00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:45.460 So it's important to kind of stay connected to what actually, depending 269 00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:50.110 points that people have in industry while going and building a region of 270 00:21:50.110 --> 00:21:53.630 where the companies could potentially go. Yeah, we need accessible messaging, 271 00:21:53.630 --> 00:21:57.520 right? Yeah. For sure. Any other pitfalls you see or anything you would 272 00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:02.790 add before we start to wrap it up here. Yeah. So the other thing I would say is 273 00:22:02.800 --> 00:22:07.350 uh, the transition is sometimes hard. So as I mentioned that all companies 274 00:22:07.350 --> 00:22:13.500 are moving from one business model to another and that requires a transition 275 00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:19.490 and it has impact on both directions. Right? So for example, you first, 276 00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:23.680 because you have done the business certain way when you want to start a 277 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:28.200 new way, it's actually starting, seems like starting a new business from 278 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:32.630 together from the beginning, Right? And it's so easy to lose sight into how 279 00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:36.020 long it took you to get to a place where you are with your current 280 00:22:36.020 --> 00:22:41.520 business and expect the same speed of delivery on the new model. Right? So 281 00:22:41.530 --> 00:22:45.650 that means that having the right expectations and making sure that they 282 00:22:45.650 --> 00:22:50.270 have the right mindset and then stick to the plan. Of course, understanding 283 00:22:50.270 --> 00:22:56.240 yet you need to adjust along the way, but don't get cold feet if things 284 00:22:56.250 --> 00:23:00.410 doesn't happen overnight because it's a journey that you need to go to. That's 285 00:23:00.410 --> 00:23:03.590 great. Well, here's my notes. Here's what I'm taking away from my 286 00:23:03.590 --> 00:23:08.550 conversation with Neema. I have got to be thinking more broadly than just one 287 00:23:08.550 --> 00:23:13.450 decision maker who might end up stroking the check. I need messaging 288 00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:17.280 that hits upper management and practitioners kind of creating buy in 289 00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:21.900 from both and then I'm intentionally going to have sort of this approach 290 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.860 that aligns my marketing, my sales, my team leaders, providing visibility, 291 00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:30.190 understanding on where we're kind of at right as a team, we want to all be in 292 00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:34.760 on the messaging together Neema for those who would like to connect with 293 00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:40.880 you further where and and how can they do that? Yeah, of course I'm on linking 294 00:23:40.890 --> 00:23:45.440 uh probably is the best place to connect um across multiple social, but 295 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:50.050 that's Lincoln is where I spend most of my time. Uh so if you just search for 296 00:23:50.050 --> 00:23:55.240 my name, Neema Astral Haggerty and linked in, you will be able to find me 297 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:59.990 and I always love to kind of connect with people and chat. So if you want to 298 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:05.110 learn more chat more or share uh some of your learnings I would love to learn 299 00:24:05.110 --> 00:24:09.460 as well, please reach out to me, I'm happy to connect awesome and we'll be 300 00:24:09.460 --> 00:24:14.220 sure to link norma's linkedin profile in our show notes so you can go over 301 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:18.310 there to connect another great conversation Here on B two B growth. 302 00:24:18.310 --> 00:24:21.620 We're here to help fuel your growth and have conversations that are going to 303 00:24:21.620 --> 00:24:25.850 spark innovation for your company. Never miss an episode by subscribing to 304 00:24:25.850 --> 00:24:30.150 the show on whatever podcast service you use and connect with me on linkedin 305 00:24:30.150 --> 00:24:34.230 as well. Just search Benji block. I love chatting about marketing, business 306 00:24:34.230 --> 00:24:38.850 and life, so we'll talk again soon and keep doing work that matters. Thank you 307 00:24:38.850 --> 00:24:40.350 very much. I appreciate it. 308 00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:45.930 Is the decision maker for your product or service of B two B marketer. Are you 309 00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:50.140 looking to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting, considered 310 00:24:50.140 --> 00:24:55.350 becoming a co host of GDP Growth? This show is consistently Ranked as a top 311 00:24:55.350 --> 00:24:59.290 one 100 podcast in the marketing category of apple podcasts and the show 312 00:24:59.290 --> 00:25:04.730 Gets more than 130,000 downloads each month. We've already done the work of 313 00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:09.110 building the audience so you can focus on delivering incredible content to our 314 00:25:09.110 --> 00:25:13.460 listeners if you're interested, email Logan at sweet Fish Media dot com.