Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah,
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welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm
dan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media. And
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today I'm joined by an internal team
member here at Sweet Fish Media and I'm
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stoked to have her on because she's
kind of like the wizard behind the
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curtain, you know, it's like she's the
mystery behind a lot of what's going on
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with our linkedin content for Sweet
fish Media. And I will say a lot of
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people, a lot of people are finding us
to Lincoln that's kind of become our
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primary channel. Of course me to be
growth here. This podcast is a primary
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channel, but you always need a like a
Short form channel in order to get a
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podcast discovered. And for us it's
linked in, we've been writing lots of
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content there, a few of us on the
leadership team. Um, and now we just
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kicked it off with 13 employees,
including a few of us that have been on
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there for a while are now active
evangelists on linkedin and Emily de
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Brito here is the one writing a lot of
that content. About half the content
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for our evangelists. Probably like a
3rd 3rd of my content Emily is writing.
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So you think it's me and it's probably
my idea maybe, but it's actually from
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Emily, and a lot of my most viral posts
have actually come through Emily
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because she's a better writer and has
way funnier content. So I wanted to
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have her on the BdB growth show because
I'm like, man, people need to hear from
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Emily, she's really great at coming up
with content for linkedin, but social
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media in general. So today I wanted to
cover five things people do or don't do
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that often lead to their linkedin
content. Getting zero engagement after
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having meeting after meeting with
customers, I inevitably go to their
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host profile, see that they're not
doing a lot of different things and
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conclude like, oh, this is why your
podcasts and growing, because you're
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not actually doing linkedin, You say
you're doing it, but you're not doing
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it. But Emily is in it every day,
working with multiple people. Writing
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content for lots of people. So, Emily,
I'd love to hear from you. Like what
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are the biggest things that you're
often seeing people? Like, what
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mistakes are they're making in order to
get ignored? Essentially, they're not
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getting any engagement on their posts.
What are you seeing? Yeah, okay, so
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johnson right into it. I think we'll
start with the first thing is that the
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content that they're posting has no
value or it's not informative enough.
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Um I see this a lot where people sort
of treat lengthen like a journal and
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they kind of just fill out what they're
thinking without thinking about the
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audience that they're writing for. And
so I should kind of combine two in
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there. It's not relevant to your
audience and it's not valuable, but I
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think it's something that you do really
well dan, is that you want your content
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to be helpful, that's something that's
important to you and part of your brand.
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Um and I think that that's important
because if your audience can't take
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something away from it, then they don't
have a reason to care about it and they
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certainly don't have a reason to engage
with it. Um and it's not going to help
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them get better at their job, so it's,
it's kind of useless. Kind of makes
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sense though. I mean if a lot of people
don't have a background in content
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marketing, which many don't, and
they've been used to posting to
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facebook instagram, you know, it's kind
of personal mediums, you're just kind
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of like, hey, this is what happened,
hey, the funniest thing happened, but
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it's, it's only interesting to people
who know you, but if you want to start
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building an audience on linkedin, it's
kind of like, well, they don't know you,
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so why would they care? And that's the
tricky part is figuring out what do you
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have to offer that would make someone
care, which is usually through being
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helpful. What are some ways people can
be helpful if they have not explored
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that before? Yeah, So I think an
important thing is to go through sort
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of a, you know, a P O. V discovery for
the evangelists, for the people writing
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on linkedin, because a lot of people
that I talk to you and like our kickoff
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calls, like I just don't know what to
write about, but they have so much
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experience and expertise that you start
to take it for granted because you're
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so close to it, right? Like you're like,
this is just what I do every day, like
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why wouldn't even care about this? But
there are tips and tricks that you use
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in your job that someone might not know
about. So I think you can't
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underestimate really any, any part of
your expertise because you don't know
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who needs to hear it. And I think I
heard in a podcast that you did, I
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don't remember who it was with, but
it's about telling story and he was
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saying like speak to who you were
months ago, four years ago and like
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what did you need to hear in that
process? So speaking to where you've
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been or speaking to other people who
are just a step behind you I think is
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an important thing to keep in the front
of your minds. And then I think it's
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important to have a strong opinion or
strong perspectives to stand on and be
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a little provocative, even like get
some good discussions going, get people
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to disagree with you and you know, put
that kind of content out there. It's
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fun to be provocative and just throw
out these like broad brushstrokes
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statements, especially if they're kind
of like short and just kind of
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opinionated, right? Just be willing to
be wrong. You just realize that
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sometimes you're gonna be wrong and you
get back down from it and it's okay. Um
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you'll learn and then you'll be like,
oh, okay, my bad, I was wrong, You guys
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are right or actually the more I talk
about this with everybody, the more I
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feel like I'm right and that is often
times the best, the best comments you
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get that you can then use for more
content. Yeah. And sometimes you don't
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know which ones are going to actually
strike a nerve or not. Some of my
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biggest pillars that I talked to most
of the time where things that I didn't
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know where things until I posted about
it and people started getting angry and
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then I realized I agreed, I only became
more convinced that my opinion was
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right and now I post about that became
one of my defining pillars, like one of
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mine is like volume over posting more
over less, you know, like a volume
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versus quality. I'm in the volume camp.
Yes, I know a lot of people disagree
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with, you know, because you've probably
written some of those you bragging
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about volume, right? Post more quality
will follow. So that's one thing just
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posting things that are generally
helpful not posting, like it's your
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diary. What's another thing that people
often get in people's way of getting
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engagement? Yeah. So this one I kind of
touched on already is that it's not
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relative or relevant, it's not relevant
to your audience, so they don't have a
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reason to care about it. And so I think
you have to realize, I mean to stand
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strong on who you are and what you want
to talk about, but also to know like
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what your niche is and what your
industry is, and to know who exactly
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you want to be talking to, right?
Because if it's not relevant to the
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audience that you're trying to reach,
you're really not going to have much of
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a reach, right? So how do you identify
what the relevant audiences? It's a
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really great question. And I think a
lot of it is just like testing testing
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with your content and seeing who
responds to it and seeing what they're
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saying to it, because obviously you're
going to have some sort of an idea,
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like you're going to know that you're
not writing for deep sea divers or
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whatever, like so not writing for them,
you know that you know that already,
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and you know that you're going to be
writing for people in the marketing
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industry, and so you just have to
narrow it down after that. And I think
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a lot of that comes from the
conversations that you have with the
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people that you work with off of, you
know, outside of lengthen, get off the
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platform and then bring that back to
the platform. Yeah, So it's about
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identifying who you want to attract and
then figuring out what does that person
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care about, because it might not be
about what you care about. Shoot, It
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might not be about your product that's
built for them. It might be other
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topics. So that's the second thing.
First thing was don't write like it's
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your diary be content that's actually
helpful or interesting. The person
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you're writing for make sure you're
writing relevant content for them. That
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was too. So what's number three? Number
three is that it's that it's not
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extensive enough that it's just boring.
I see it as a lot. It's sort of like,
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uh, I don't know, like a copy and paste
syndrome, like the same idea is going
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around and around and around or even
basic things that people say. It's like,
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that's marketing 101 already know that.
Um You see a ton of that on linkedin
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and so then you just kind of have to
filter through it and scroll through it
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and get exhausting. But I think if you
really want to stand out, then you have
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to find a way to maybe break, break the
information down more or think about it
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in a different way. And even a lot of
people on linkedin, if it's substantial
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enough, they'll take time to read a
longer post. It doesn't have to be like
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a quick and snappy status if you're
actually talking about something that's
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going to be helpful to somebody. So I
think make it more extensive and then,
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you know, or the mistake is that it's
boring, the curious to make it more
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extensive, but also to make it more
engaging and infuse your own personal
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brand into it. Yeah, you might have a
unique take on something, but often I
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just find that information is
incomplete, right? So like, let's take
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two examples is, uh in the blogging
world, I use this example all the time.
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If you're going to write a blog about
how to run a marathon and your first
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tip, your secret pro tip is drink water.
It's kind of like, okay, like of course
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I'm gonna drink water while I'm running
a 26.2 miles. Like anything else, do
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you want to tell me? Like how much
water is there something I should be
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mixing in the water? Like tell me
something a little bit more. Should I
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carry water or should I just depend on
the cups on the side of the road?
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Should I take a break? Should I walk
while I drink or should I just continue
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to figure out how to drink while
running, which is a pain in the butt,
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right? These are things I was looking
for. So if I was creating a content for
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a few first time marathon runners like
more, I need something more than just
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drink water because that was kind of
obvious. But that kind of happens in
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Lincoln content all the time, right?
Someone's offering some generic advice.
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Like don't be the smartest person in
the room. I'm like, what does that even
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mean? Does that mean the dumbest person
in the company is the Ceo and on the
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bottom are all the smartest people in
the world? Like what? How does that
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work? So giving more specifics and
breaking down things that people might
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understand and everybody has something
unique, Emily, you have something
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unique as someone who's writing more
Lincoln content than anybody. I know
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you're literally, that's like your,
most of your days are just spent coming
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up with unique angles for this, which
is why you've gotten good at
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identifying these. Can you think of any
other ways? Like, you've taken
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something that is like the normal thing
people say and then, like, changes. So
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it's interesting a lot of that honestly
does just come from the people that I'm
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writing for. I just take, I find a way
to take what they think or what they're
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saying and say it in a more exciting
way, I suppose, because they've got the
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experience, my experience is writing
and creating content and that's what
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I'm good at. But there's so many times
where someone will say, like, I really
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want to write about this and I'm like,
I don't even know what that is. So then
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I have to then go and do research, but
also they will provide me with maybe a
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podcast episode that they've done. So
I'm taking what they've already said
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and just formatting it for length in.
Um so I find that to be really helpful.
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I also just, I consume a ton of content
every day. Like I put out a ton of
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content, but I consume a ton of content,
so I'm subscribed to like a million
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different marketing emails, like I love
twitter, I consume a ton of twitter
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because it's nice and stackable um and
then obviously like I'm on linkedin all
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the time, so when you're doing that,
you have so much input that allows you
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to have unique output, if that makes
sense? That's funny. I hear people
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argue sometimes that like if your
content creator you shouldn't consume,
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you should just create. I'm like, I
don't know, sometimes I get my best
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ideas from consuming other people's
content and then respond and then
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posting it or something. Just create as
nice in theory and it's nice if I'm
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just creating for one thing, but I'm
creating for 13 different people and so
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I can't just come up with all of that
from within myself dry. Yeah, exactly.
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So what's 1/4 way that people are
failing to get engagement? Yeah. So the
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fourth one is that they are simply not
providing a reason to engage. So
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there's no call to action, there's no
question. And I think if you have
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content that is extensive enough, that
is relevant that people want to engage,
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but sometimes they're just looking for,
they need a question to guide them in
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how to engage. Um, and so I see a lot
of people make posts that are just like,
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all right, this is what I think that's
it and they don't ask you a question at
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the end. And so it's easy to keep
scrolling through those ones and um, I
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see a lot of people say like agree or
disagree question mark or stops and I
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don't think that that's a bad way to do
it, I think that that's inviting people
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in at least. Um But I also think that
if you can come up with specific
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questions, that's a compelling reason
for people to leave a comment on your
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post. Um and that way you get more
reach, but you also get more feedback
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to then continue to refine your content.
Absolutely, and it's tricky. I've
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literally gone to post with the
intention of engaging with the comment
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and then got to the end and I have no
idea what to say, you're like actually
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I wanted to leave the comment right now
and I'm drawing a blank, I have no idea
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how to add to this. Usually I'm pretty
good at doing is I do it a lot. If you
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add a question that's relevant, I don't
have to think about it so hard and then
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I can go and leave the comment. Of
course I'm a comment machine. I'm
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trying to do a lot of comments cause
that's part of how the Lincoln game
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works. The more you engage in other
people's posts, the more your post gets
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seen. So the more value you add, the
more linkedin gives you value to your
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post. Right? Exactly. Do you find that
some questions are better than others
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and why? Yeah, I think the more
specific the question and the more
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clear the question that that's an
obvious when we're clear the question.
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But a lot of people are like, instead
of saying, do you agree, they're like,
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do you not agree to disagree? Like
making it more complicated than it has
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to be? Because sometimes I do, I read
questions, I'm like, I don't even know
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what this is asking me so to make it,
and I think those are generally the
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ones where people are like, oh I have
to add a question to this, what should
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I add? But to make it just to make it
clear, but also to make it specific
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you're looking for, you don't just want
comments. You want people to actually
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have an answer to what you're asking
and to have something substantial that
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you can engage with. So the more
specific you make the question, the
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more you'll get that back. Sometimes a
post, even if you ask a question, the
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post is engaging enough that they'll
start commenting, that's not even
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engaging the question, I've seen that
happen a lot. And the one thing that
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I've found with the question that this
is kind of the trick is asking a
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question that's really relative to what
you just wrote. That's really easy to
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respond to. Because if you ask a deep
question being like, what's the deepest
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thought you ever had? People are like,
uh they move on their scrolling down,
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you have to stop and think for like
more than two seconds about what their
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answer is going to be. They're probably
not going to comment. Yeah. That's
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actually a trap that I fall into.
Because I'll see a question like that.
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I'm like, what is my answer to this?
And then I'm like, yeah, I'm spending
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way too. Let's move on. All right.
What's the last thing you would say
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keeps people from getting engagement?
Yeah. So this one I would say it's just
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formatted poorly. So you're we might
not know what your point is because of
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everything else that's in your post,
whether it's just a long story or
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you're a very worthy person or it's
like blocked off in paragraphs. Nobody
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reads just paragraphs of you know, like
a content. They just they prefer bullet
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points, We prefer something that's
easier to consume. Which is why, you
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know, people like the tweets that
people are posting on linkedin, but I
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would say just to make your point clear,
but also to make it readable, right? So
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to break it up in the short sentences,
I really love linkedin post because
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it's somewhere between a tweet and blog
post, right? You can actually have
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instead of actually having like
sections of a blog post, you're really
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just putting the heading. So it's the
ultimate little scannable snack because
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it's not just a thought, it's multiple
thoughts. It's a whole idea package.
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But it kind of creates an interesting
medium between Lincoln and blood posts
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that is a little bit longer and you can
actually learn something from it
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instead of just a provocative idea. But
it's not quite blog posts, like you can
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consume it in 30 seconds or or
something like that. Um So what are
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some formatting things that you're
doing to like, differentiate our post
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from, like everybody else to post? Yeah.
So it's really important to grab
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attention in the first three lines,
right? It's like above the fold. That's
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what people are going to read and
that's going to determine if they want
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to click read more. So I think that
that has to be generally I format that
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break it up into three sentences, but
also something that's really exciting
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and then you get into your main point.
Um so I have been doing that. I also I
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love emojis. I think this is like uh
this is a 50 50 thing. Some people
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don't, but I actually think emojis are
really great at calling out a specific
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point or a sentence to draw attention
to that, so I'll do that too. Um or all
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caps, you know, just shout at somebody
and it's not for a whole paragraph, but
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maybe a word or two. I think that those
really help you draw attention to what
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you want people to pay attention to.
Gosh, that's so much more emotion to it
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are funnier. You know, if you know how
to do it right? Not just replace the
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word with an emoji that's kind of
obvious, but if you like know how to
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add a little spin to it with emojis
than it goes so far are gifts or memes
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or stuff like that. Yes, I know we do
it because we're trying to attract
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marketers and marketers generally like
emojis, but if I were doing it to like
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financial executives then I probably
wouldn't use emojis unless unless
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that's your differentiator is like
you're the fun finance person to talk
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to. So it kind of depends on what
you're going for. Generally I'd say
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emojis over no emojis, but I don't
understand why you wouldn't, since
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you're in it so much. I wanted to ask
you about some of the trends that
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you're seeing, what you're consuming, A
ton of content. You're writing lots of
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content. What are some of the things
that you're seeing out there that
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you're thinking about our experimenting
with yourself? So lately I've been
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seeing a ton of polls um and I think
people are just using those because you
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get a ton of engagement because it's
easy, right? Like the easier like
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you're saying with questions easier,
you can make it to engage the better
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and so people can just click on
something and then keep scrolling
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through. Um, So I'm seeing a lot of
that and I do think that probably
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sometimes they're just going for easy
engagement because someone will say
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like, you prefer pizza hot or cold and
that's really not useful to anyone make
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pizza, right? Yeah, you're a pizza
maker. But other than that, like if you
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are actually asking something as, I
don't know, as a survey or for deeper
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research, I think the polls are great.
They're great for that and can actually
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really help you with learning or
creating more content. But I'm seeing a
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lot of those and I'm curious to see how
those continue to play out or if people
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will get tired of those and then people
are tired of them because they went
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about it on there all the time. Another
pool. I really, you know, whatever.
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Like somebody I like him personally
because I, I'm always like suckered
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into like, I wonder what people voted
for this. I know what I'm going to pick,
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but I want to see what other people
picked. So it's kind of like, it's a
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little nugget in and of itself just to
see what the results are to ripple what
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I don't want to vote because I want to
see what people are saying. So
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sometimes I don't even want to I don't
want people to know what I voted on on
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some polls, so I'll vote and then
quickly on vote just because I wanted
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to see what the results were. But
because your name is attached to it
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every time you vote, like the creator
can actually go and pull the list of
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everybody who voted on what it's
available. Voting on the pizza pull
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stand like that. I mean I probably am,
but I wouldn't make those, they're so
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easy. I just touch it, you're like why
not? Okay, so I'm also seeing a lot of
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people treating linkedin like twitter
or even like facebook, you're seeing
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more well and there are a few facets to
that, you're seeing more personal
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things, which I think that there's a
good mix of personal content and um you
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know, educational content, there's,
there's a place for both, but I've seen
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more personal posts and I am seeing
more um I think just as far as like
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treating it like twitter, I'm seeing
more short posts that are not super
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relevant that are just like, oh this
thing happened to me the other day and
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that's it. Maybe that's like facebook
as well because people say all kinds of
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random stuff on facebook or they'll be
like, oh this is what I had for
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breakfast, how do you feel about eggs?
So I think that there's, I do not
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appreciate when people use linkedin as
facebook or twitter. So it brings up an
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interesting topic, like a lot of people
have started talking about like Lincoln
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becoming too personal. Where do you
draw the line? And do you, do you one,
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do you feel like personal stuff can be
on linkedin at all? And if so where do
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you draw the line on? How much is too
much? It's a really good question. I
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think that brings us into a whole other
topic of personal branding, right? And
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how do you build a personal brand? And
because people do want to see that, But
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what does that entail? I think that
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there I've seen, okay, like big life
events, I feel like you can go ahead
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and post that only because people want
to celebrate with you right, when I got
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married. Yeah. I started a new job, of
course is relevant, but like anything
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that was huge in your life. Yeah, I've
seen a lot of those. I think those are
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exciting. I feel like I probably saw
more of those over this last year
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because people were like, we need to be
more human, need to connect in this
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time. And so that's understandable. But
then I think there are other things
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that are just like, this is how I'm
feeling about this and it's more of a
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journal, right? Like we talked about
before and it's sort of like a, like an
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outlet for someone to process something.
And so I don't think that that is the
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place for Lincoln like I think that
that's more of a facebook or a personal
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blog or something like that. But I do
like to see the humanity in people,
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obviously everyone does. Um and so I
think that I really appreciate people
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who are able to infuse that in their
professional life, who are able to make
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a post and its educational, but they
also have their own flair to it. And I
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think that's a tricky thing to figure
out is how personal is too personal. So
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that's a great question. And I don't
really have different people take
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different stances, right? Like Gary v's
like, oh, post everything, it's all
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about. You kind of like, yeah, but you
don't, I'm like, you don't post about
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your family. I mean you talk about
parenting sometimes, but your kids and
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your wife aren't on there. There's a
whole side of you that you never post.
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So people do pick and choose what they
share. I think the smart people
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actually like say like, okay, I'm going
to talk about this, this, this and this,
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but nothing else just to show some
parts of it. But you don't have to
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share the whole thing. Right? Well
you're protecting your personal life
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that way too. Which I think is
important. So absolutely anything else
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you see going on? I don't know, I mean
something you brought up the other day
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how people are screen shotting tweets
and putting tweets on in how I feel
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about that. And uh I have said before
like I don't want lengthen to become
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twitter right? But it does, it does
grab your attention. You do scroll past
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and you see a screenshot and it's just
you know a sentence or something like
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interesting and engage with it. But I'm
seeing a lot more of that. And then
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also like if I can rabbit trail for a
second, we're testing a lot of like
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gifts or gifts and means. Um and those
are those have been fun to and I think
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those work really well because it's a
good way to mix up what you're doing.
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Like you just had one a couple weeks
ago, that was that Star wars meme with
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Anakin padme ng, like it's all over the
place and so people like, like the
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different take on it. So I've enjoyed
like thinking of brainstorming names
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and stuff like that. You're good on it.
I want anakin one you did of mind like
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went viral. I can't remember how many
people saw it, but it was like 70,
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people or something crazy like that,
which I had not seen since like a pole.
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Like only polls usually get that far
right now. So it's fun to see other
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content other than polls get drastic
reach man. So this has been a fun
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conversation. I can't wait to like send
this to people if they ask me like
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what's working on linkedin, I'm just
gonna send them this interview over and
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over again. I think we covered a ton of
different materials around what's,
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what's working, what's not working,
things that are trending right now
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Emily's or anything else that you think
our audience would need to know in
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order to succeed on linkedin before we
end this episode. Yeah, so I just want
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to end with a lot of the conversations
that I've had with the people that I'm
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writing for, initially when we jump on
a kickoff call is like there's no,
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there's either a lack of capacity or a
lack of confidence. And so capacity is
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one that just takes discipline of like
just sit down and time block for an
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hour on friday and just write a bunch
of content that you can post throughout
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the week. And I think that that's a
really great way to take it on. But I
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also think the lack of confidence side,
um if you have, if you have buying from
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your company and they want to help
their evangelists or their ambassadors
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or whatever create more content, then I
think another important part of that is
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not only equipping them and enabling
them and empowering them to create
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content. Like we've done by your
training videos and bringing me on
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board. Like I think they also just need
to feel like they can do that like
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there, they might not be writers, but
they need to feel that they can't right,
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they do have something to say. And so I
think that if you want a successful
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evangelist program, you have to be able
to create resources and training for
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them too. I feel like they can do that.
That makes sense, totally. Makes sense.
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So Emily, this has been fantastic. If
people want to learn more and connect
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with the the again, the wizard behind
the curtain who's doing a lot of
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00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:25.770
Arlington work, where can they find you?
Yeah, they can find me on Lincoln. My
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00:26:25.770 --> 00:26:31.210
name is Emily de Brito, D I B R I T O
and that would be my main one. So find
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00:26:31.210 --> 00:26:35.370
me there. Let's connect. You heard that
everybody go and find Emily de Brito on
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00:26:35.370 --> 00:26:38.900
linkedin and connect with her. She's
doing her own content on top of writing,
379
00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:43.060
everybody's else because she's part of
her own program. So again, hopefully
380
00:26:43.060 --> 00:26:46.670
this has been helpful to you. If it has
been one, go and follow Emily, but
381
00:26:46.670 --> 00:26:50.770
certainly go and drop a five star or
whatever start you feel like it's worth
382
00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:54.110
um on apple podcasts or Spotify or
wherever you're listening to this
383
00:26:54.120 --> 00:26:57.770
episode. It blesses us a ton. If you
just go and give us a rating, you don't
384
00:26:57.770 --> 00:27:01.330
even have to leave a review. If you do,
I will read it. It's fantastic. But
385
00:27:01.340 --> 00:27:04.270
thank you so much for joining us on
this episode of GDP Growth.
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00:27:06.040 --> 00:27:06.270
Mhm
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00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:14.030
Gary V says it all the time and we
agree every company should think of
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00:27:14.030 --> 00:27:19.800
themselves as a media company first,
then whatever it is they actually do if
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00:27:19.800 --> 00:27:23.720
you know this is true, but your team is
already maxed out and you can't produce
390
00:27:23.730 --> 00:27:27.870
any more content in house. We can help,
we produce podcasts for some of the
391
00:27:27.870 --> 00:27:31.670
most innovative baby brands in the
world and we also help them turn the
392
00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:36.350
content from the podcast into blog
posts, micro videos and slide decks
393
00:27:36.350 --> 00:27:39.560
that work really well on linkedin. If
you want to learn more, go to Sweet
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00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:44.660
Fish Media dot com slash launch or
email Logan at sweet Fish Media dot com.