What UX Has In Common with Sales and Marketing

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:09.310 In a sense, the user experience then drives all business results and 2 00:00:09.310 --> 00:00:13.150 actually drives of the world economy. Because all of those individual 3 00:00:13.150 --> 00:00:20.540 decisions and reactions and choices and responses from users or customers add 4 00:00:20.540 --> 00:00:28.040 up to all the business outcomes that we can imagine You x user experience today 5 00:00:28.040 --> 00:00:32.900 on the c X Siris on B two b growth, you'll learn how you X drives the world 6 00:00:32.900 --> 00:00:38.930 economy, what you X shares with sales and marketing. Which company represents 7 00:00:38.930 --> 00:00:45.210 the gold standard in you X and the relationship between C X and you x. My 8 00:00:45.210 --> 00:00:49.540 name is Ethan Butte. I host the C X Siri's here on B two b growth. I'm co 9 00:00:49.540 --> 00:00:55.270 author of Re Humanize Your Business and chief evangelist at Bom Bom. Our guest 10 00:00:55.280 --> 00:01:00.290 is Bob Barry Ah, you X expert who's done work for Google, Facebook, Amazon, 11 00:01:00.300 --> 00:01:05.069 Apple, Microsoft, FedEx, PayPal and so many other companies. He's principal 12 00:01:05.069 --> 00:01:09.840 user experience, researcher at Answer Lab and founder of the Human Computer 13 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:16.880 Mastermind Academy. Here's my conversation with Bob Digital virtual 14 00:01:16.890 --> 00:01:20.920 contact lists or contact free. No matter how you describe it, no matter 15 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:25.350 what business you're in, your customer experiences more physically hands off 16 00:01:25.350 --> 00:01:29.510 today than it was at the start of 2020 and it's going to stay that way for the 17 00:01:29.510 --> 00:01:33.830 foreseeable future. So today we're talking about how to create exceptional 18 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:39.030 online experiences that drive customer engagement and produce results. And 19 00:01:39.030 --> 00:01:42.380 we're doing it with a gentleman who researches and designs human computer 20 00:01:42.380 --> 00:01:47.020 interactions and who's focused on customer experience, user experience 21 00:01:47.020 --> 00:01:51.370 and learning experience. He spent years inside companies like Hewlett Packard, 22 00:01:51.370 --> 00:01:55.620 Agilent Technologies and Deluxe Corporation. He's currently a speaker, 23 00:01:55.630 --> 00:01:59.520 author, researcher and presenter with the human Computer Mastermind Academy. 24 00:01:59.520 --> 00:02:04.040 At it's the user's dot com. He also serves his principal user experience 25 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:08.509 researcher with Answer Lab and is leading in depth research for Google, 26 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:13.560 Amazon, Cisco and other world class companies. Bob Barry, welcome to the 27 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:16.960 customer experience Podcast. Thanks to you. Thank glad to be here looking 28 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.920 forward to this. Yeah, me too. We haven't done. I'm hoping we get maybe a 29 00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:24.750 little bit technical or we really operated that human machine 30 00:02:24.760 --> 00:02:27.800 Intersection point. It comes up thematically, but certainly not with 31 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.550 the depth of exposure and knowledge that you have to that. But before we 32 00:02:31.550 --> 00:02:35.450 get going in earnest, answer Lab is based in San Francisco, but you're here 33 00:02:35.450 --> 00:02:39.970 with me. Not physically, but you're here with me and zoom in Colorado 34 00:02:39.970 --> 00:02:44.500 Springs. And you've been here for years. So how did you land here? And what do 35 00:02:44.500 --> 00:02:48.280 you love about being here? Well, I actually grew up in Colorado. I'm not 36 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:52.560 originally from Colorado, but I've spent the majority of my life here. So 37 00:02:52.570 --> 00:02:56.010 a zoo you mentioned I worked for Hewlett Packard, and you know, the 38 00:02:56.010 --> 00:02:59.530 agile and still has that facility out on Garden of the Gods Road. So that's 39 00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:03.490 the thing I worked there for 15 years back in the days when Bill Hewlett and 40 00:03:03.490 --> 00:03:07.560 David Packard were still alive. So I've always enjoyed Colorado love the 41 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:12.240 outdoor life. I loved the business opportunities here. So Colorado Springs 42 00:03:12.250 --> 00:03:15.970 in the front range have been home for most of my ears. Awesome. And it is a 43 00:03:15.970 --> 00:03:20.310 much different town than it was even before I arrived, which was about 13 44 00:03:20.310 --> 00:03:23.570 years ago. So I can't imagine the amount of change you've seen here 45 00:03:23.570 --> 00:03:28.500 locally. Yeah, it has changed a lot. Fortunately, a lot of the beautiful 46 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:31.980 mountain areas and wilderness and everything that's west of here hasn't 47 00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:34.790 changed that much. So we still get a chance to get away. And especially 48 00:03:34.790 --> 00:03:38.780 these days when we're looking for opportunities for extreme social 49 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:42.500 distancing that you know, those those places are still available to us. 50 00:03:42.510 --> 00:03:46.180 Absolutely. I was fortunate to be able to get out with my son a couple times 51 00:03:46.180 --> 00:03:49.680 last week, and it's it's awesome. I love how close everything is to 52 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:55.210 Colorado Springs with regard. Thio Wilderness outdoors, etcetera. So you 53 00:03:55.210 --> 00:03:59.750 do a lot of work with experience. Eso We'll start with your definition or 54 00:03:59.750 --> 00:04:03.350 your thoughts or characteristics of customer experience. In particular. 55 00:04:03.350 --> 00:04:07.740 When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you, Bob? So I 56 00:04:07.750 --> 00:04:12.190 interpret that pretty broadly. So I interpret customer experience as 57 00:04:12.190 --> 00:04:18.480 virtually any contact that you have with any individuals. Humans, prospects, 58 00:04:18.490 --> 00:04:23.890 customers, users that may interact with your business. And you know, we tend to 59 00:04:23.890 --> 00:04:28.820 think of this whole concept of Omni Channel, which is really looking 60 00:04:28.820 --> 00:04:33.520 holistically at all of the ways that you might interact with or touch a 61 00:04:33.520 --> 00:04:37.570 customer. That certainly could include many different ways online, but it can 62 00:04:37.570 --> 00:04:42.860 also include phone. It could include face to face contact that could include 63 00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:48.610 printed materials. PR. It doesn't really leave anything out when it comes 64 00:04:48.610 --> 00:04:54.940 to your interactions and how you might make offers to or serve or support 65 00:04:54.940 --> 00:04:59.690 customers at any point through the product or customer life cycle. Great 66 00:04:59.690 --> 00:05:04.120 definition covers a lot of the themes that we talk about here in particular, 67 00:05:04.130 --> 00:05:07.570 the one that you really hit in a variety of different ways is that it's 68 00:05:07.580 --> 00:05:13.140 every single touch point, human analog, digital, etcetera. And it's so 69 00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:16.110 important, that's that's the reason we host this show is to is to talk about 70 00:05:16.110 --> 00:05:20.360 how, if so many different people inside your organization are involved in 71 00:05:20.540 --> 00:05:24.820 creating and delivering these various aspects of the experience. How do we do 72 00:05:24.820 --> 00:05:28.960 it in a way that's intentional and aligned? And so you also are a user 73 00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:32.960 experience expert. You've done a lot of work and learning experience, talk 74 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:37.860 about these other experiences and maybe where they intersect with or diverged 75 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:43.800 from customer experience. So I guess it's difficult to come up with a lot of 76 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:48.180 really comprehensive definitions because this convey vary a lot from one 77 00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:53.310 type of business to another, from one type of customer to another one type of 78 00:05:53.310 --> 00:05:58.130 system or interactive platform or interface to another. But in general 79 00:05:58.130 --> 00:06:04.430 user experience tends to go deeper. It probably does not cover as many of 80 00:06:04.430 --> 00:06:08.470 those touch points that we discussed when we were defining customer 81 00:06:08.470 --> 00:06:12.730 experience. So, for example, it may not cover as much around what, what, you 82 00:06:12.730 --> 00:06:16.970 what you might consider customer service or support, although there may 83 00:06:16.970 --> 00:06:22.040 be elements of that as well. The user experience really talks a lot. Maura, 84 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:26.970 about the fine points and the particulars of how a human being 85 00:06:26.970 --> 00:06:33.510 interacts with some kind of interactive system or platform or app or website or 86 00:06:33.510 --> 00:06:39.160 device, and that human computer interaction that h. C. I that we often 87 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.670 refer to. There's a lot of science that goes into creating those types of 88 00:06:43.670 --> 00:06:47.990 interactions and a lot of science that goes into evaluating and optimizing 89 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:55.040 those interactions. We work on a basic premise that all business results and 90 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.360 it challenge anyone to think of one that doesn't fall. Within this 91 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:05.040 definition, all business results are individuals making specific choices 92 00:07:05.050 --> 00:07:10.030 within the user experiences. We provide them, and in a sense, the user 93 00:07:10.030 --> 00:07:13.970 experience then drives all business results and actually drives the world 94 00:07:13.970 --> 00:07:19.300 economy. Because all of those individual decisions and reactions and 95 00:07:19.300 --> 00:07:25.350 choices and responses from users or customers add up to all the business 96 00:07:25.350 --> 00:07:28.930 outcomes that we could imagine and therefore what drives the world world 97 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:34.390 economy. So experience and how somebody interacts with those virtual interfaces 98 00:07:34.400 --> 00:07:38.540 is really at the center of so much of what we're trying to do in ways that 99 00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:43.150 we're trying to serve and influence our customers and our prospects. Do you 100 00:07:43.150 --> 00:07:47.200 separate at all? Or are they all bundled together? And if you do 101 00:07:47.200 --> 00:07:53.470 separate them, is there any hierarchy with regard to the human feelings or 102 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:57.800 thoughts or behaviors? Do you separate those elements? Do you study them 103 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:02.000 independently? And what is the relationship between those? Yeah, I'm 104 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.120 glad you asked that. So in user experience research and there's 105 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.010 certainly elements of this and customer experience is well and user experience 106 00:08:09.010 --> 00:08:13.750 research. We really create a context around that virtual interaction around 107 00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:18.510 those human computer interactions, and that context is really understanding 108 00:08:18.510 --> 00:08:22.780 the individual understanding their narrative. So we talk about things like 109 00:08:22.790 --> 00:08:28.490 ethnography, ease. We talk about journeys, we talk about personas and 110 00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:33.610 that really all that happens before we actually get into those virtual 111 00:08:33.610 --> 00:08:38.059 interactions. We want to understand these individuals, their lives, whether 112 00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:42.210 it's a business or personal context. What motivates them? What are their 113 00:08:42.210 --> 00:08:47.790 needs? What kind of outcomes are they looking for? What is their level of 114 00:08:47.790 --> 00:08:52.990 technical capability? How savvy are they about technology? What's their 115 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.300 economic status? So there's a whole lot of things we wanna learn about all 116 00:08:56.300 --> 00:09:01.310 those individuals that puts that virtual interaction that interface in a 117 00:09:01.310 --> 00:09:05.750 much more relevant context when we try to interact with them and serve them 118 00:09:05.750 --> 00:09:09.370 and do something useful for them. So that's that context is really critical 119 00:09:09.370 --> 00:09:14.420 to understanding the experience because you can't separate their interactive 120 00:09:14.420 --> 00:09:17.960 experience with your app for your website from the larger context of 121 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:20.030 their lives and what's important to them and what they're trying to 122 00:09:20.030 --> 00:09:24.070 accomplish, right? It's the whole picture, or as much of the pictures you 123 00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:28.010 can get is so much more useful in terms of making decisions that are going to 124 00:09:28.010 --> 00:09:33.090 be helpful for them. Do you work? I'm gonna go one follow up there. You know, 125 00:09:33.090 --> 00:09:37.240 when you start talking about ethnography, ease and journeys and 126 00:09:37.250 --> 00:09:41.520 personas, you know you're obviously talking about things that sales and 127 00:09:41.520 --> 00:09:46.010 marketing likes to talk about. Have you found from an organizational standpoint 128 00:09:46.010 --> 00:09:49.220 from a workflow standpoint from a project development and management 129 00:09:49.220 --> 00:09:53.300 standpoint. Does this work it seems like it could should would intersect 130 00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:56.660 very directly with with what sales and marketing is doing in terms of who 131 00:09:56.660 --> 00:10:00.350 they're bringing to the experience. Do you find that that tends to be the case? 132 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:04.600 Absolutely. And a lot of the work that I do with a lot of the brands that you 133 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:09.220 mentioned with Google. Facebook Amazon a lot of the work we do with them is, 134 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:15.410 in fact evaluating and guiding people through the front end experiences. How 135 00:10:15.410 --> 00:10:21.260 do people interact with those companies Offerings, their marketing programs, 136 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:27.210 their online catalogs, their offers, their social media. So the whole 137 00:10:27.220 --> 00:10:30.260 upfront process, when they're still in the prospect stage where they're still 138 00:10:30.260 --> 00:10:35.000 in the learning and discovering and shopping stage in many cases we weigh 139 00:10:35.010 --> 00:10:39.200 in many cases may actually focus more on that than we do the actual 140 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.180 transaction or what happens after the transaction, because that part of it is 141 00:10:43.180 --> 00:10:48.170 so essential to those companies and those businesses being successful, and 142 00:10:48.170 --> 00:10:52.160 those users and those customers finding what they need. You've already kind of 143 00:10:52.170 --> 00:10:56.170 driven by this. I always like to ask something like this for folks who 144 00:10:56.170 --> 00:10:59.930 aren't familiar. Can you tell us a little bit about answer lab like Who is 145 00:10:59.930 --> 00:11:04.510 your ideal customer? Is it thes thes giant? You know, world class brands? Or 146 00:11:04.510 --> 00:11:08.040 is it more than that, like who is your ideal customer and what specifically do 147 00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:13.450 you solve for them? So we do, Ah, lot of the kind of research we've been 148 00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:18.950 talking about for those brands and a lot of major brands in high tech, in 149 00:11:18.950 --> 00:11:24.080 automotive, in pharmaceuticals and financial, and just about any of the 150 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:29.100 major industrial categories or customer segments that you can imagine. And 151 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:33.730 these are companies that rely heavily on the virtual platforms and the 152 00:11:33.730 --> 00:11:37.750 virtual tools and the virtual offerings that they provide to the marketplace. 153 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:41.630 And again, that could include everything from the online catalogs 154 00:11:41.630 --> 00:11:45.840 that they provide. The shopping experience is the social media programs 155 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:51.590 that they run all of the ways that they do actually actually do business with 156 00:11:51.590 --> 00:11:56.320 customers and transact orders and then, in many cases, how they support those 157 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.630 customers and how they maintain ongoing relationships with them once they 158 00:12:00.630 --> 00:12:05.650 become customers. And so these air these air companies that for them user 159 00:12:05.650 --> 00:12:09.800 experience and customer experience is not an event, it's an ongoing process. 160 00:12:09.810 --> 00:12:13.850 It's built into their culture. You know, you look at a company like Amazon and 161 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.580 they've been doing this from the very beginning, and the user experience that 162 00:12:18.580 --> 00:12:23.770 they have is often pointed to as sort of the gold standard. And it's one that 163 00:12:23.770 --> 00:12:27.050 obviously has served them very well. And if you look at the recent 164 00:12:27.050 --> 00:12:31.100 performance and everything that's happened over the last few months and 165 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:34.660 how successful they've been in providing all of the products that we 166 00:12:34.660 --> 00:12:38.820 don't go out and shop for anymore, clearly they have an interface that 167 00:12:38.830 --> 00:12:43.240 billions of people are familiar with and comfortable with and use on a 168 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:47.390 regular basis and has really become a critical part of the world we live in 169 00:12:47.390 --> 00:12:52.760 today. So we help them optimize those experiences so people at all levels can 170 00:12:52.760 --> 00:12:56.760 make sense out of those, can get what they need and can be successful in 171 00:12:56.760 --> 00:13:00.950 getting the products and services that are required for them to be to be 172 00:13:00.950 --> 00:13:05.220 successful. It's awesome. It's a great example and I think almost all of us 173 00:13:05.230 --> 00:13:08.810 listening, which should be able to relate to that one for me. I think the 174 00:13:08.810 --> 00:13:11.730 most dangerous thing they've done is the buy now button, particularly in 175 00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:16.480 Mobile. It's just so easy. Toe hit it on purpose or on accident. Like here we 176 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:21.310 go. It's just it's just that easy. So before we go one step further and you 177 00:13:21.310 --> 00:13:25.560 were right there into you know how things were changing, maybe for some 178 00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:28.730 other businesses. You know, Amazon had this built in from day one. But other 179 00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:32.660 people need to figure out How do we turn? Maybe the physical into the 180 00:13:32.660 --> 00:13:37.540 virtual or the, you know, things we might handoff physically to contact 181 00:13:37.540 --> 00:13:43.530 list operations and getting into that, what part of the organization are you 182 00:13:43.530 --> 00:13:47.480 typically plugging into when you come in to do this type of research? What 183 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:51.630 I'm thinking about now is a listener who might be saying, Gosh, I don't know 184 00:13:51.630 --> 00:13:55.370 that I can hire Answer Lab because we're, ah, much, much smaller 185 00:13:55.370 --> 00:13:57.810 organization, and we don't have it figured out yet, and we don't even know 186 00:13:57.810 --> 00:14:02.680 what research questions to ask. But we should be doing this type of work. 187 00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:06.620 Whether we do it internally or we hire it out. Where do you usually plug into 188 00:14:06.620 --> 00:14:11.220 the organization. We plug into a lot of different places, and I actually I'm 189 00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:14.510 glad you asked the question about the smaller organization. So in addition to 190 00:14:14.510 --> 00:14:18.840 answer Lab, as you mentioned at the beginning, I also run this operation 191 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.220 called It's the user's dot com, which is the human computer mastermind 192 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:27.030 academy. The mission there is to help smaller companies, entrepreneurs, 193 00:14:27.030 --> 00:14:32.180 professionals get introduced to this world of understanding their users, 194 00:14:32.180 --> 00:14:35.650 really understanding the context and the narrative and figuring out how to 195 00:14:35.650 --> 00:14:39.490 create the right kinds of experiences that are gonna help their businesses 196 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:43.430 succeed and also help their customers and their and users succeed. And so we 197 00:14:43.430 --> 00:14:47.820 do a lot of stuff for free. We do a lot of stuff very low cost that's, ah whole 198 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:51.480 different scale economically than what a lot of those big brands do. So we we 199 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:54.980 provide that as well about to answer your question about where do you plug 200 00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:59.430 in? And, you know, it used to be that the user experience customer experience 201 00:14:59.430 --> 00:15:05.040 was sort of ah, side operation, you know, it might be attached somewhere in 202 00:15:05.040 --> 00:15:09.570 marketing. It might be attached somewhere in the I T department or in 203 00:15:09.570 --> 00:15:15.330 some cases, it might be even part of the sales operation right now in many 204 00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:19.940 of these companies, it's deeply embedded in the culture and the from 205 00:15:19.940 --> 00:15:26.400 top leadership on down the boards of directors, the CEOs, the CEOs, they all 206 00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:30.320 pay very close attention to this, and the amount of funding that they provide 207 00:15:30.330 --> 00:15:33.720 is pretty substantial to continue. These things type of research in this 208 00:15:33.730 --> 00:15:38.440 kind of optimization ongoing. So in many cases we may be talking to 209 00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:44.040 organizations that are running, you know, large marketing programs that are 210 00:15:44.040 --> 00:15:48.290 trying to promote and merchandise products and try to influence customers 211 00:15:48.290 --> 00:15:55.030 and transact business online or offline as well. We may also plug into the 212 00:15:55.030 --> 00:15:59.000 parts of the organization that air specifically responsible for Web and e 213 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:03.120 commerce and virtual platforms. You know, some companies are all about 214 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.450 virtual their whole operation. Their whole mission is based on interactive 215 00:16:07.450 --> 00:16:12.510 virtual platforms, and so way may plug into various parts of the organization, 216 00:16:12.510 --> 00:16:17.490 depending on what aspect of promotion and outbound or inbound marketing. You 217 00:16:17.490 --> 00:16:20.600 know, they probably have a social media team. They probably have a content 218 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:24.970 development team. They probably have online catalogs that they're working 219 00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:29.750 with product merchandizing, so all of these air areas that we might 220 00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:33.930 singularly plug in, or we might plug into multiple aspects of those as well. 221 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:39.530 But in many cases, a lot of this is recognized and funded and tracked very 222 00:16:39.530 --> 00:16:42.200 closely from the top of the organization. In the more successful 223 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.060 companies, it's fantastic, and I am gonna go out on a limb. I'm sure you'll 224 00:16:46.060 --> 00:16:49.470 go out there with me if you have Thio and say, These are the companies that 225 00:16:49.470 --> 00:16:54.380 are built to last people that have that embedded in the culture. So let's get 226 00:16:54.380 --> 00:16:59.480 let's get really specific to all the changes that were forced upon basically 227 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:04.319 every business that exists for the most part. And, of course, some more than 228 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:09.349 others because some relied so much more heavily on physical contact and 229 00:17:09.349 --> 00:17:13.520 physical interaction human to human interaction, not just via zoom or via 230 00:17:13.520 --> 00:17:18.500 phone or whatever, but actual human to human interaction. At the risk of 231 00:17:18.510 --> 00:17:21.950 stating the obvious. Can you start at the beginning and maybe talk about the 232 00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:25.700 transformations that you've been seeing, or maybe the accelerated rates of 233 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:30.170 trance of transformation that you're seeing in reaction to the pandemic? 234 00:17:30.540 --> 00:17:36.790 Well, the big driver, of course, is the need to go contact lists, so there's 235 00:17:36.790 --> 00:17:41.750 still a tremendous amount of conflicting science out there about 236 00:17:41.750 --> 00:17:46.920 exactly how this virus is transmitted. And in the last few weeks, in many 237 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:51.360 parts of the country, the numbers of new cases has gone up dramatically. 238 00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:56.820 Yeah, we still don't really understand how this is transmitted. You know, uh, 239 00:17:56.830 --> 00:18:00.840 my wife and I have five kids that are scattered throughout the West, and 240 00:18:00.850 --> 00:18:05.780 we're debating going on a road trip in a in a few weeks to go visit them. But 241 00:18:05.780 --> 00:18:11.170 we really is an ongoing research and discussion process about is this really 242 00:18:11.170 --> 00:18:14.660 feasible? And what are the risks that were taking and what are the things we 243 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:19.020 should do and shouldn't do on any given day? If you follow the news, you get 244 00:18:19.020 --> 00:18:23.830 conflicting stories and data and science and recommendations. So it's 245 00:18:23.830 --> 00:18:29.110 about contact lists and in so many ways, not just businesses. But organizations 246 00:18:29.110 --> 00:18:34.770 of all types have been forced to figure out how to do what they do without 247 00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:39.410 doing any physical contact or minimizing physical contact. You know, 248 00:18:39.420 --> 00:18:43.510 I could rattle off a number of examples just all the companies and businesses, 249 00:18:43.510 --> 00:18:48.070 operations and their employees that have simply gone home to work. They've 250 00:18:48.070 --> 00:18:53.800 gone remote. And so here we are on Zoom, and the use of Zoom has exploded. So 251 00:18:53.800 --> 00:18:57.460 tell the work in and of itself has been a major transformation. Some of that's 252 00:18:57.460 --> 00:19:00.330 not gonna go back. It's going to stay where people are gonna continue to do 253 00:19:00.330 --> 00:19:05.120 that. You look at education at all levels, from preschool all the way up 254 00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:10.530 to Postgraduate in college. It's completely changed. And honestly, we 255 00:19:10.530 --> 00:19:14.100 haven't figured that out. If you the jury's still out on how to make that 256 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:18.740 work. And with everybody pulling students out of classes at all levels 257 00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:24.040 back in March and then trying to cope from March until now, I think the 258 00:19:24.050 --> 00:19:27.070 general consensus is we failed. We didn't we haven't figured it out. We 259 00:19:27.070 --> 00:19:31.450 have a long way to go. Health and medicine has changed dramatically, so 260 00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:34.140 I'm trying to catch up on some of my doctor's appointments that I've been 261 00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:38.010 procrastinating on the last few months, and a lot of these now we're doing 262 00:19:38.010 --> 00:19:42.180 virtually we're doing through Zoom meeting we're doing through, you know, 263 00:19:42.190 --> 00:19:45.810 sharing records online, scheduling things and trying to as much as 264 00:19:45.810 --> 00:19:50.230 possible you know, simple examples in small businesses, the restaurants that 265 00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:54.250 are allowing you to order online and pick up the curb. You know, there's 266 00:19:54.250 --> 00:19:57.470 another example here in Colorado springs of a construction company that 267 00:19:57.470 --> 00:20:04.640 has gone totally video where they will show you how to do video with your 268 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.940 phone off the space in your home that you wanna have remodeled and you send 269 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:12.530 them the video. They'll come back to you with simulations off what that 270 00:20:12.530 --> 00:20:16.190 space would look like with new materials with the redesign. Then 271 00:20:16.190 --> 00:20:18.450 they'll come back and they will show you a simulation of how they're 272 00:20:18.450 --> 00:20:21.010 actually going to come in and do the work and how they're gonna maintain 273 00:20:21.010 --> 00:20:25.510 social distance. And I've heard other examples of Taylor's that have figured 274 00:20:25.510 --> 00:20:30.520 out how to do measurements using APS and how to measure your body and send 275 00:20:30.520 --> 00:20:36.330 them your body measurements for a new suit without having anything way could 276 00:20:36.330 --> 00:20:39.880 go on and on and on about all these examples of all the ways that we're 277 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:44.110 figuring out how to do this. So it's some it's pervasive. Ah, lot of it is 278 00:20:44.110 --> 00:20:47.570 very creative. And, you know, as they say, necessity is the mother of 279 00:20:47.570 --> 00:20:53.540 invention, and there's a lot of new stuff being invented. Hey, everybody, 280 00:20:53.550 --> 00:20:56.930 Logan with sweet fish here if you've been listening to the show for a while, 281 00:20:56.940 --> 00:21:01.340 you know, we're big proponents of putting out original organic content on 282 00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:05.510 LinkedIn. But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is 283 00:21:05.510 --> 00:21:09.200 too easily track the reach of that Lincoln content. That's why I was 284 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.560 really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from a connection 285 00:21:12.560 --> 00:21:17.150 on you guessed it linked in. Since our team started using shield, I've loved 286 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:21.530 how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance of Arlington 287 00:21:21.530 --> 00:21:26.270 content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates 288 00:21:26.270 --> 00:21:30.050 reports and generate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see 289 00:21:30.050 --> 00:21:33.490 things like what contents been performing the best And what days of 290 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.950 the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views 291 00:21:36.950 --> 00:21:40.710 proposed? I highly suggest you guys check out this tool. If you're putting 292 00:21:40.710 --> 00:21:44.720 out content on LinkedIn, and if you're not, you should be. It's been a game 293 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:49.950 changer for us. If you go to shield app dot ai and check out the 10 day free 294 00:21:49.950 --> 00:21:55.350 trial you can even use our promo code B two b growth to get a 25% discount. 295 00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:01.890 Again, that's shield app dot ai And that promo code is be the number to the 296 00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:09.500 growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. E Love it. And 297 00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:14.070 some some of these examples, for example, that one about the tailor you 298 00:22:14.070 --> 00:22:16.980 were used. The app in it takes your measurements and get a custom cut suit 299 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:21.530 for, like, five or 600 bucks. That's one of those where the idea. It's an 300 00:22:21.530 --> 00:22:25.350 idea whose time has come. And then there's this other camp where it's 301 00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:29.130 we've been doing this for a long time, successfully or unsuccessfully. How do 302 00:22:29.130 --> 00:22:32.660 we adapt? And I think that's the That's the majority of a lot of them and, you 303 00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:35.910 know, to your point, I mean, we've bagged a couple trips to Arizona. We 304 00:22:35.910 --> 00:22:40.130 have family down there, and my son is looking at a couple schools in Arizona. 305 00:22:40.130 --> 00:22:45.250 We've canceled two of those trips s so I could imagine your thoughts around Is 306 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:48.540 this is this good or not? In the science is very, very challenging. It's 307 00:22:48.550 --> 00:22:52.820 also a lot of it is politicized, which makes it more confusing. And there's a 308 00:22:52.820 --> 00:22:57.240 great deal of challenge here for, you know, I know that you're talking with a 309 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.840 lot of folks. You're doing a lot of presentations and engagements like this 310 00:23:00.840 --> 00:23:05.250 one were enjoying. Right now, what are a couple things that people have have 311 00:23:05.250 --> 00:23:10.410 found surprising or low hanging fruit or missed opportunities? What are some 312 00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:14.360 things that you're seeing that might be practical from a take away standpoint 313 00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:19.510 for someone listening to improve what they're doing? For example, specific to 314 00:23:19.510 --> 00:23:23.650 your touchless? I just released an episode. By the time this releases will 315 00:23:23.650 --> 00:23:27.420 have released a week or two before with a gentleman who works at a company, 316 00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:31.110 Michael Ashford works. This company called the receptionist. They're based 317 00:23:31.110 --> 00:23:35.850 up in Denver coincidentally, and they provide those ipads where people can 318 00:23:35.850 --> 00:23:39.580 punch in. And then it alerts the person you're coming to visit the office, you 319 00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:43.820 know, in all of this, and just to remove the idea that someone has to 320 00:23:43.820 --> 00:23:48.090 touch an iPad, they're adapting it so that it talks to your mobile device so 321 00:23:48.090 --> 00:23:52.490 you can check in on your own phone via this. This you know, the rest of this 322 00:23:52.490 --> 00:23:56.100 infrastructure. And so anyway, I would assume that you're hearing a lot of 323 00:23:56.110 --> 00:24:00.550 stories like that. Is there anything surprising or easy or challenging in 324 00:24:00.550 --> 00:24:03.970 particular, that that's been interesting to you or helpful to others? 325 00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:08.280 Well, one of the things that we've done an answer lab, which is very important 326 00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:12.120 and and we have worked with a lot of our customers and clients on this, too, 327 00:24:12.120 --> 00:24:18.840 is the probably. The first priority is to make sure that you're being safe. So 328 00:24:18.850 --> 00:24:22.790 whatever new direction you're going, or however you're running your operation, 329 00:24:22.790 --> 00:24:26.620 make sure that based on the best knowledge we have available today, make 330 00:24:26.620 --> 00:24:32.780 sure that you're taking care of yourself, your family, your employees, 331 00:24:32.780 --> 00:24:37.350 your customers, your clients. So as much as possible, minimize that 332 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:41.440 physical contact and try to find creative ways to do, you know. And in a 333 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:44.920 lot of the examples we've been talking about companies of all sizes. Of course, 334 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:49.400 we're doing this. They're figuring out how to and even in the in the example 335 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.880 you just mentioned with the iPad even just physically touching, something 336 00:24:52.890 --> 00:24:57.850 could be risky. So now let's use voice. And certainly voice technology has come 337 00:24:57.850 --> 00:25:01.760 far enough that we could do that today. So look at the technologies that are 338 00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:05.640 available. Look where you might be a risk or where you might be putting 339 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:09.910 other people at risk. And first of all, figured out how to maintain that safety 340 00:25:09.910 --> 00:25:14.120 in that distance and minimize or eliminate those points of context so 341 00:25:14.120 --> 00:25:18.230 that you're not spreading the virus. First of all, next is probably 342 00:25:18.230 --> 00:25:23.460 important to really look carefully at where your customers airheaded. One of 343 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:29.380 the things that we're also focusing a lot on is customer data eso in all of 344 00:25:29.380 --> 00:25:33.140 the marketing that we do. Certainly in many aspects of customer experience and 345 00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:38.980 user experience, we've learned a lot about our customers and as well as our 346 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:45.250 prospects and our ability to manage these data sets and optimize what we 347 00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:48.810 offer people and when we offer it and all the things that we do before and 348 00:25:48.810 --> 00:25:52.510 after the sale is based on these massive data sets that we've collected 349 00:25:52.510 --> 00:25:56.980 about our customers well, some of that data, maybe a lot of that data may now 350 00:25:56.980 --> 00:26:02.140 be suspect because people are losing their jobs. People are now working at 351 00:26:02.140 --> 00:26:07.330 home so they may no longer be using the, you know, the same email systems that 352 00:26:07.330 --> 00:26:11.510 they did before the same phone numbers that they did before. People maybe 353 00:26:11.510 --> 00:26:16.040 changing jobs. Customers may be pivoting. They may be shifting their 354 00:26:16.040 --> 00:26:20.700 budgets or scaling back. So is all this transformation going on that's going to 355 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:26.110 render some some portion of your customer data, your customer knowledge 356 00:26:26.120 --> 00:26:30.520 obsolete? And so one of the things you have to start right now to do is really 357 00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:34.530 start to understand how you're going to rebuild that knowledge, Because if you 358 00:26:34.530 --> 00:26:38.470 lose track of those customers and who they are and what their need, that's 359 00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:41.170 gonna create additional risk for you. So that's a really important one. 360 00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:46.960 Another short term really important aspect of this is really to understand, 361 00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:50.730 you know, as I mentioned earlier, all business outcomes are those individual 362 00:26:50.730 --> 00:26:54.480 choices that people make within the experiences we provide them. So it's 363 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:59.130 really important to understand what those choices are. What represents a 364 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:04.170 specific outcome that your customers have to achieve that's gonna have them 365 00:27:04.170 --> 00:27:09.640 be successful, and what outcomes to you need to achieve is a business for you 366 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:13.660 to be successful. You need very clearly articulate those and then begin to 367 00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:17.800 understand whether they're diverging or converging. You know, as I've used this 368 00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:22.520 metaphor before, about, you know, Wayne Gretzky made the point about his some 369 00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:26.640 of his success or a lot of his success was based on skating to where the puck 370 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:30.890 was going to be instead of where the puck is or where it's been. So try to 371 00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:34.930 figure out three months, six months, a year out, and that's gonna be difficult. 372 00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:39.570 But try to figure out where the puck is going to be and decide whether you're 373 00:27:39.570 --> 00:27:43.230 skating in the right. Are you gonna be there when the puck gets there, or will 374 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:47.480 it have already passed? So you gotta understand those points of successful 375 00:27:47.490 --> 00:27:51.130 those outcomes and begin to anticipate what that future looks like and what 376 00:27:51.130 --> 00:27:54.490 kind of data you're going to need and then how you're going to make all of 377 00:27:54.490 --> 00:27:58.150 that happen in an environment where you're keeping everybody safe. Three 378 00:27:58.150 --> 00:28:03.590 Fantastic caution slash sensitivity areas. I And of course, I really like 379 00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:07.530 where you left there with the Gretzky quote because there is so much changing, 380 00:28:07.530 --> 00:28:12.280 just like there is in a live fast action, you know, best players in the 381 00:28:12.280 --> 00:28:16.250 world hockey game. There's a lot that's moving really, really quickly. You know, 382 00:28:16.250 --> 00:28:21.010 with regard to your own business, your own team members, your customers, their 383 00:28:21.010 --> 00:28:24.130 actual needs, the solution that you provide, or the way that you provide it 384 00:28:24.130 --> 00:28:27.310 has to change its been thematic, of course, throughout the conversation so 385 00:28:27.310 --> 00:28:31.940 far, I want to double back really quickly, Bob to I have this problem of 386 00:28:31.950 --> 00:28:36.430 asking multiple questions all at the same time, So I partly held myself back 387 00:28:36.430 --> 00:28:40.180 there. But, you know, this is something that I see in in conversations on 388 00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:45.730 LinkedIn and that type of thing, which is from your perspective, is you know, 389 00:28:45.730 --> 00:28:49.200 the way we're talking about customer experience today or the way that we're 390 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:54.390 talking about user experience. Is this just new language or returned a 391 00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:57.740 language for things that we've always worked on and focused on? Is there 392 00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:01.760 actually anything new here? What's changed? What's stayed the same? Maybe 393 00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:07.380 over the past 20 years or so in these areas. So there, yeah, there. I'm glad 394 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:09.650 you asked that. That's a really good question. So there have been a number 395 00:29:09.650 --> 00:29:13.580 of major changes that have happened. Certainly the shift to Mobile has been 396 00:29:13.580 --> 00:29:18.460 a Big one. So back in the day when I first started doing this, when I worked 397 00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:25.980 with Hewlett Packard, we did everything on desktop computer using the Windows 398 00:29:25.990 --> 00:29:31.780 Explorer browser and 95% of the world. That was what they used. And so you 399 00:29:31.780 --> 00:29:35.250 could just test that the world is much different now. So there are so many 400 00:29:35.250 --> 00:29:39.650 different devices out there, so many different APS, different operating 401 00:29:39.650 --> 00:29:46.860 systems. And so it's really important that mobile be first, you know, and and 402 00:29:46.860 --> 00:29:50.520 that's really what our focus is on, especially now that a lot of people 403 00:29:50.520 --> 00:29:55.280 have moved away from their work desktop and they're relying more and more on 404 00:29:55.280 --> 00:30:00.040 mobile, even though they're not as mobile. They're actually relying more 405 00:30:00.040 --> 00:30:05.070 and more on mobile devices to do what they need to do. So mobile is that is 406 00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:08.520 one of the big transformations. The other thing that we're starting to see 407 00:30:08.520 --> 00:30:12.230 is a lot more intelligence and interactive systems. So augmented 408 00:30:12.230 --> 00:30:17.180 reality, virtual reality intelligence systems, Theobald ity for these 409 00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:21.680 interfaces to begin toe, learn who we are and anticipate who we are. Those 410 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.890 were going to be about those. We're gonna take a much larger role now in 411 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:30.930 the ways that we're gonna be ableto stay contact lists. So, you know, 412 00:30:30.940 --> 00:30:35.350 driverless cars and trucks are obviously coming. You know, any of 413 00:30:35.350 --> 00:30:40.800 these examples that we've named like, for example, the tailor example, you 414 00:30:40.800 --> 00:30:44.960 know, in order to be able to measure body dimensions and translate those 415 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.000 into something physical that actually it's on your body. There has to be some 416 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:53.020 intelligence built into those to be able to understand how to process those 417 00:30:53.020 --> 00:30:57.160 algorithms. So those models, those systems, those tools, we're gonna 418 00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:59.730 become a lot more intelligence. So that's a big deal. And you're gonna 419 00:30:59.730 --> 00:31:03.880 start to see more and more intelligence built in two interfaces and tools and 420 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.400 ways of interacting with one another and keeping things contact list. And 421 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.020 again, all those are all of those air individual experiences people are gonna 422 00:31:11.020 --> 00:31:15.430 learn, need to learn how to use those, learn how to make them effective for 423 00:31:15.430 --> 00:31:19.550 whatever outcomes they're seeking. And that's going to require us to do more 424 00:31:19.550 --> 00:31:22.890 and more evaluation of those systems to make sure their functional make sure 425 00:31:22.890 --> 00:31:26.110 people could make sense out of them. You know, another one that we're going 426 00:31:26.110 --> 00:31:29.420 to start to see and which is gonna be a big deal is already a big deal. That's 427 00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:34.450 gonna become even more A big deal is data privacy. So, you know, we hear a 428 00:31:34.450 --> 00:31:38.480 lot about that now. But if you you know, if you watch the news, there are some 429 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.920 major issues going on with some of our social media platforms around data 430 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.950 privacy. We have an election coming up, which is going to continue to a surface 431 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:52.020 significant data privacy issues with all of the social justice and all the 432 00:31:52.020 --> 00:31:55.610 protests going on. There's a lot of talk about police use of facial 433 00:31:55.610 --> 00:31:59.900 recognition. That's gonna be a big deal. And and the biggest one is probably 434 00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:05.130 going to be a key part of solving. And the coronavirus problem is going to be 435 00:32:05.130 --> 00:32:10.620 testing, tracing and tracking. Now, smart devices and all the phones we 436 00:32:10.620 --> 00:32:13.750 have in our pockets are not gonna be the solution, But they're probably 437 00:32:13.750 --> 00:32:17.000 gonna be a key part of the solution. And people are going to resist, 438 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:21.170 especially in this country. People are gonna resist mightily having themselves 439 00:32:21.170 --> 00:32:25.640 tracked and their personal health tracked and made available to other 440 00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:29.410 people. But are we gonna be able to solve the coronavirus problem if we 441 00:32:29.410 --> 00:32:32.880 can't do that, so that's a big deal. We haven't. We're a long way from even 442 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.680 really tackling that, much less solving it. So those were some of the major 443 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:40.820 things going on right now. And some of these work just on the front end of 444 00:32:40.820 --> 00:32:45.140 them, really good observations, a lot of big ideas there for folks who are 445 00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:49.230 listening. I recommend that bounce back button on my phone and the app that I 446 00:32:49.230 --> 00:32:53.330 use. It's a 62nd bounce back, so maybe hit that thing twice, or a lot of 447 00:32:53.330 --> 00:32:56.690 really good ideas in there. I appreciate you making that pass, and 448 00:32:56.690 --> 00:33:01.260 it's really interesting that the what will we give away in terms of privacy 449 00:33:01.260 --> 00:33:06.010 or information personally, in exchange for what type of value or experience or 450 00:33:06.010 --> 00:33:09.300 entertainment? And it's just mind blowing to me is you said it. I was 451 00:33:09.300 --> 00:33:13.970 like, Yeah, there is gonna be a lot of resistance to health data and tracking 452 00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:17.350 at the same time. You know, you already pointed to the vulnerabilities of 453 00:33:17.350 --> 00:33:21.700 social networks like I want to see these, you know, 12th video clips and 454 00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:26.170 I'm willing to, you know, put my personal information at risk in 455 00:33:26.170 --> 00:33:29.630 exchange for that. But I'm not gonna help track this virus down anyway. So 456 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:33.320 much interesting stuff going on. Can you do a quick pass here on learning in 457 00:33:33.320 --> 00:33:37.760 particular? You know, I saw a learning experience as a lot of your background, 458 00:33:37.770 --> 00:33:41.310 and it's just something that's really of interest to me. I would assume that, 459 00:33:41.310 --> 00:33:45.190 folks, who are this deep in a podcast episode? Our learners. If you listen to 460 00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:48.720 podcasts, you probably read books digitally or physically. You're 461 00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:53.340 probably ah, title learner type. Do you have any tips on learning something 462 00:33:53.340 --> 00:33:57.250 that you've learned along the way That would help people learn more 463 00:33:57.250 --> 00:34:01.600 effectively or something like that? Yeah, I think one of the biggest 464 00:34:01.600 --> 00:34:05.520 challenges. And I know that I'm sure you have experienced this one of the 465 00:34:05.520 --> 00:34:09.480 biggest challenges with with learning, especially virtual learning. Now that 466 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:15.620 we're doing all of this so remotely is the retention in the application. So 467 00:34:15.620 --> 00:34:20.179 and I can tell you that I've that I have any any secret solutions to that. 468 00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:24.360 I think again that we referred earlier to all the challenges going on now with 469 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.179 trying to do remote learning for school at all different levels. And so I mean, 470 00:34:29.179 --> 00:34:33.489 I consume a tremendous amount of information and learning. But my 471 00:34:33.489 --> 00:34:38.670 ability to remember it is one challenge, and then my ability to apply it, 472 00:34:39.040 --> 00:34:43.989 whether it's to my personal life or to my career or to my professional work, 473 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:49.080 is a whole another challenge. So I think that, you know, and I I have done 474 00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:52.489 quite a bit of e learning in the past. The fact that years ago I did a startup 475 00:34:52.489 --> 00:34:57.270 where we developed ah, lot of learning tools and evaluation tools to help 476 00:34:57.270 --> 00:35:01.360 young people prepare for life and some of the things that we were able to 477 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.150 accomplish their toe kind of make a dent in this retention and application 478 00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:12.390 challenge is really making things very personal. Is really trying to make the 479 00:35:12.390 --> 00:35:18.470 tools adaptable to a particular individual's life and context, learning 480 00:35:18.470 --> 00:35:23.640 style and in current level of knowledge and confidence. So knowledge and 481 00:35:23.640 --> 00:35:28.450 confidence or two very important vectors on that, and the Mawr adaptable 482 00:35:28.450 --> 00:35:32.490 and personalized. You could make that learning to the individual, the more 483 00:35:32.490 --> 00:35:35.620 they're going to pay attention to it, and then the more relevant it's going 484 00:35:35.620 --> 00:35:39.400 to be for them in their lives, and therefore their ability to apply it in 485 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.340 useful ways is going to be more important. And again, that's where some 486 00:35:42.340 --> 00:35:46.080 of this intelligence is going to come in. So some of the early tools that we 487 00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:49.070 were able to develop and there's more of this going on now, like a lot more 488 00:35:49.070 --> 00:35:53.270 of this, where you can assess an individual ahead of time and actually 489 00:35:53.270 --> 00:35:57.890 adapt the learning content, the learning delivery, the media types, the 490 00:35:57.890 --> 00:36:03.580 speed, the depth, everything to that individual, so one size fits all 491 00:36:03.580 --> 00:36:07.360 doesn't fit. In most cases, we need to find ways again at all levels of 492 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:11.140 learning. Also, learning is to be experiential, and I think that's one of 493 00:36:11.140 --> 00:36:15.460 the biggest failings of what's happened over the last few months is, you know, 494 00:36:15.460 --> 00:36:19.860 that classroom experience interacting with other students, interacting with 495 00:36:19.870 --> 00:36:24.480 the instructor, all the other enriching activities that happen in a school. 496 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:29.010 They'll sort of, For example, one of my sons is in college and he's premed, and 497 00:36:29.010 --> 00:36:33.790 he's at the lab stage of his pre med studies where he's gotta lay hands on a 498 00:36:33.790 --> 00:36:38.110 lot of things in a in a laboratory. Well, now he can't do that and you 499 00:36:38.110 --> 00:36:42.300 simply can't simulate that by watching videos online. It's just not gonna 500 00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:46.540 happen. So I think removing that experiential aspect and that 501 00:36:46.540 --> 00:36:51.470 interpersonal aspect of our education in response to coronavirus has been a 502 00:36:51.470 --> 00:36:54.370 real risk. And honestly, I'm not sure how we replace that. I think there's a 503 00:36:54.370 --> 00:36:57.380 lot of ways we're gonna have toe continue to work on that to make that 504 00:36:57.380 --> 00:37:02.300 work better, really, really good. It was recently able to go to the dentist 505 00:37:02.310 --> 00:37:06.960 and the dental hygienist. Apologize to me for having to pause for a moment 506 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:11.710 because she had to put a gown over her gown. She had to put a whole plastic 507 00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:16.400 sheeting over her already. You know, mask the face, mask all these other 508 00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:21.100 things, and it's I just think about a med school student and what's required 509 00:37:21.100 --> 00:37:25.000 there and you're right. It is a lot of it is so tactile. Gosh has got to be so 510 00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.320 challenging and to your point, you know, we're in this some kind of a holding 511 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.140 pattern until we figure it out at some level. What you also shared their about 512 00:37:32.140 --> 00:37:36.510 learning reminded me of an episode that we did with P Anca Jane who is a Data 513 00:37:36.510 --> 00:37:40.430 Analytics expert. She shared some ways to improve data literacy and this idea 514 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:45.390 of application ASAP. You know, as soon as the learning happens that you can 515 00:37:45.390 --> 00:37:49.450 start applying it. And so we talked a bit about data personas within an 516 00:37:49.450 --> 00:37:53.250 organization. Of course, that's not truly individualized and personalized, 517 00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:57.360 but it at least takes a step in that direction to make sure that how deep 518 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.010 does someone need to get to be appropriately data literate for their 519 00:38:01.010 --> 00:38:06.220 role? And how can we make assignments and interactivity so that the learning 520 00:38:06.220 --> 00:38:09.470 is taken right away and is appropriate again to the role of the depth of 521 00:38:09.470 --> 00:38:12.710 knowledge that the person needs? If you're listening to this episode, we've 522 00:38:12.710 --> 00:38:18.380 enjoyed it so far with Bob as I have. You might also like Episode 50 of the 523 00:38:18.380 --> 00:38:21.770 customer experience podcast that was with Bill Amerman. He's the author of a 524 00:38:21.770 --> 00:38:25.640 great book called The Invisible Brand. In fact, Porchlight Books called it 525 00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:29.930 their marketing book of the year, and we titled that episode Episode 50. The 526 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:35.300 Ethics of AI. Customer Persuasion versus Customer, Coercion on and You 527 00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:38.860 Did a Pass there toward the end, Bob about, you know some of the trade offs 528 00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:42.160 that we're making. And you know what's motivating the intelligence behind 529 00:38:42.160 --> 00:38:46.010 these systems? And what's motivating the way that the massive data 530 00:38:46.010 --> 00:38:50.120 collection we've been doing for years is actually applied in an experiential 531 00:38:50.120 --> 00:38:54.500 way. And and for whose benefit? So that was Episode 50 with Bill Amerman, an 532 00:38:54.500 --> 00:38:57.710 episode 70 for a little more recently with Steph Caldwell of Narrative 533 00:38:57.710 --> 00:39:01.550 Science, a really cool company in Chicago. And we call that using tech to 534 00:39:01.550 --> 00:39:05.610 scale the human touch. And we were at that intersection a little bit of human 535 00:39:05.610 --> 00:39:09.030 and machine and, you know, how do we still create that personal and human 536 00:39:09.030 --> 00:39:14.660 experience for people in a scaled and partly automated and eventually 537 00:39:14.670 --> 00:39:20.010 artificially intelligent interactivity? And so, Bob, this has been great. I've 538 00:39:20.010 --> 00:39:22.940 really enjoyed our time together and before I let you go, because 539 00:39:22.940 --> 00:39:26.910 relationships are number one core value at Bom Bom, I like to give you two 540 00:39:26.910 --> 00:39:30.860 opportunities, one to thank or mention a person and to to think or mentioned a 541 00:39:30.860 --> 00:39:34.370 company or a brand. And the person is someone who's had a positive impact on 542 00:39:34.370 --> 00:39:38.540 your life for your career, and the brand is one that you appreciate a 543 00:39:38.540 --> 00:39:43.380 respect for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer. Well, 544 00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:48.400 you know, I just I have to go back to my early days of my career. And as I 545 00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:51.720 mentioned, I worked for Hewlett Packard back in the days when Bill and Dave 546 00:39:51.720 --> 00:39:55.480 were still alive and I had the opportunity to meet them on various 547 00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:01.310 occasions. And, you know, they were the original Silicon Valley. Start the new 548 00:40:01.310 --> 00:40:06.370 business in your garage duo. And there have been so many duos that have done 549 00:40:06.370 --> 00:40:10.310 that. And they did it back in the late thirties. And I think a lot of people 550 00:40:10.310 --> 00:40:14.320 don't realize that they were the original, you know, technology company 551 00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:19.010 founders. So their story and their values and how they there was a very 552 00:40:19.010 --> 00:40:22.530 different company back then, you know, they invented the H P way and they in 553 00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:26.600 management management by walking around and, you know, in the open door policy. 554 00:40:26.600 --> 00:40:29.450 And there was so much that's just become embedded in our corporate 555 00:40:29.450 --> 00:40:33.750 culture these days. That s o they were They were a true inspiration. And I you 556 00:40:33.750 --> 00:40:37.610 know, I appreciate I had the opportunity to work in that environment 557 00:40:37.610 --> 00:40:42.170 back back in the eighties and nineties when when they were still around. So I 558 00:40:42.170 --> 00:40:47.560 mentioned them there long past. But they had a real impact on the industry 559 00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:51.450 and just corporate culture in general. The other one, I would mention that I 560 00:40:51.450 --> 00:40:56.590 really appreciate is Jeff Walker and product launch formula. So he invented. 561 00:40:56.600 --> 00:41:00.500 You're shaking. You're not in your head. So I assume you've heard of him. He's, 562 00:41:00.510 --> 00:41:08.380 you know, he invented ways of creating experiences for customers that really 563 00:41:08.390 --> 00:41:14.010 focus a lot on education. Focus a lot on creating an effective experience 564 00:41:14.010 --> 00:41:18.510 that brings the prospect of the customer into the value of what 565 00:41:18.510 --> 00:41:24.710 whatever it is you're offering and lead you down, a process of of engaging in a 566 00:41:24.710 --> 00:41:29.600 way that is, I think is so widely used anymore in marketing and especially in 567 00:41:29.600 --> 00:41:33.940 online in digital marketing that I think we forget that Jeff invented a 568 00:41:33.940 --> 00:41:37.890 lot of that back. I've probably been 12 years ago now that he did that it and a 569 00:41:37.890 --> 00:41:41.940 lot of companies are using aspects of that today. So those air a couple of 570 00:41:41.950 --> 00:41:46.680 professionals systems individuals that I think had a pretty pretty big impact 571 00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:53.640 on me. Awesome. Any companies or brands come to mind. You know, I I follow 572 00:41:53.640 --> 00:41:58.210 Apple very closely. You know, I own virtually every apple device that has 573 00:41:58.220 --> 00:42:03.150 known to exist and just, uh, the quality of the products that they 574 00:42:03.150 --> 00:42:08.920 create. And you talk about experience. And so every aspect of what they do, 575 00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:14.250 whether it's in the APS or the websites that they create, if it's in the 576 00:42:14.250 --> 00:42:18.860 devices themselves, whether it's an Apple watch or an iPhone or a Mac, I 577 00:42:18.860 --> 00:42:22.480 just think I always turn to them when we're talking about experience. I 578 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.150 always think about them as being the gold standard as far as the quality of 579 00:42:27.150 --> 00:42:31.590 the experience and how intuitive it is and how it truly delightful it is 580 00:42:31.590 --> 00:42:34.770 interact with the things that they make. So I definitely want to mention them 581 00:42:34.770 --> 00:42:39.190 because I'm a big fan. Cool. I love all three of those choices. I When I think 582 00:42:39.190 --> 00:42:44.170 about companies today that really think about the relationship between humans 583 00:42:44.170 --> 00:42:47.880 in their devices, Apple is obviously first or second to come to mind, with 584 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:51.630 Amazon being right there with them. Jeff Walker. We all read that at Bom 585 00:42:51.630 --> 00:42:56.140 Bom years ago, and we've generated at least a million dollars in revenue and 586 00:42:56.140 --> 00:43:00.890 that my favorite thing about that process that he advocates in the 587 00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:04.230 product launch formula. I forget the exact name of the book, but it's 588 00:43:04.230 --> 00:43:11.070 something like that launch. There you go, right. And so even for people who 589 00:43:11.070 --> 00:43:15.040 don't take you up on the offer and don't pay you a dollar of revenue, they 590 00:43:15.040 --> 00:43:19.810 still got a massive amount of value. And so from a at Bom Bom when we would 591 00:43:19.810 --> 00:43:22.720 do these teachings and things that would lead to some opportunity for 592 00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:26.650 someone to spend time or money with us. Even people who didn't opt to follow 593 00:43:26.650 --> 00:43:30.780 along to that last stage still got a massive amount of value. Huge 594 00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:34.130 engagement with the software and with our team is just really positive 595 00:43:34.130 --> 00:43:38.520 experience. So I love what that leaves customers within. Ah, huge proponent of 596 00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:41.970 managing by walking around. It's something I discovered on my own. And 597 00:43:41.970 --> 00:43:46.530 then I realized, you know, in doing some more traditional corporate culture 598 00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:50.270 and business reading, a Zai was coming up in my career. I was like, Oh, this 599 00:43:50.270 --> 00:43:54.650 is actually a thing. You know, there's actually ah, useful philosophy and 600 00:43:54.650 --> 00:43:59.750 practice. I'm so legitimate anyway, Bob This has been great. I've really 601 00:43:59.750 --> 00:44:02.810 enjoyed it. If someone wants to follow up on this conversation, they want to 602 00:44:02.810 --> 00:44:07.060 connect with you or answer lab, or it's the user's dot com. If people enjoyed 603 00:44:07.060 --> 00:44:11.370 this, where would you send them to follow up? So we have a lot of free 604 00:44:11.370 --> 00:44:15.050 materials toe help People get started in this world of user and customer 605 00:44:15.050 --> 00:44:19.850 experience and a lot of advanced materials learning courses, tools, 606 00:44:19.850 --> 00:44:25.500 platforms, etcetera. Also, I offer a free, personalized consult eso if you 607 00:44:25.510 --> 00:44:31.560 if you go to it's the user's dot com slash bom bom. Then you can sign up for 608 00:44:31.560 --> 00:44:34.830 all those free materials and that extensive library. And you can also 609 00:44:34.830 --> 00:44:38.540 sign up for some time with me to guide you through this and talk specifically 610 00:44:38.540 --> 00:44:41.920 about your business, your customers and how to make all of this work for you. 611 00:44:42.790 --> 00:44:47.340 Awesome. Thank you so much, Bob, that's it's the user's dot com slash bomb bomb. 612 00:44:47.350 --> 00:44:50.810 If you want to see video clips from this episode, links to some of the 613 00:44:50.810 --> 00:44:54.330 things that we talked about. You can always visit. Bom bom dot com slash 614 00:44:54.330 --> 00:44:58.090 podcast. Thank you so much for listening and Bob thank you so much for 615 00:44:58.090 --> 00:45:03.620 your time and insights. Ethan. All the best. Take care. If you wanted to make 616 00:45:03.620 --> 00:45:08.730 a list of the companies deliver in you, X and C X Best would be very difficult 617 00:45:08.730 --> 00:45:12.710 to leave Apple off that list. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Bob. 618 00:45:12.890 --> 00:45:17.110 If you want more conversations about customer experience, check out the 619 00:45:17.110 --> 00:45:22.260 customer experience podcast wherever you prefer to listen to podcasts, you 620 00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:25.800 know you're in the right place when you see the orange tile, the customer 621 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:30.490 experience podcast. Now we're typically talking with marketing, sales and 622 00:45:30.490 --> 00:45:35.340 customer success professionals about internal alignment and a more holistic 623 00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:40.120 approach to creating and delivering better experiences for customers. You 624 00:45:40.120 --> 00:45:44.910 can also browse episodes of the podcast by checking out bom bom dot com slash 625 00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:49.010 podcast. My name is Ethan Butte. I am your host, and I appreciate you 626 00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:52.210 listening to the c X Siris on B two b Growth. 627 00:45:54.390 --> 00:45:59.890 Gary V says it all the time, and we agree every company should think of 628 00:45:59.890 --> 00:46:04.920 themselves as a media company first. Then whatever it is they actually dio 629 00:46:05.390 --> 00:46:09.190 if you know this is true. But your team has already maxed out and you can't 630 00:46:09.190 --> 00:46:13.590 produce any more content in house. We can help. We produce podcast for some 631 00:46:13.590 --> 00:46:17.520 of the most innovative BB brands in the world, and we also helped him turn the 632 00:46:17.520 --> 00:46:22.200 content from the podcast in the block posts, micro videos and slide decks 633 00:46:22.200 --> 00:46:25.640 that work really well on LinkedIn. If you wanna learn more, go to sweet Fish 634 00:46:25.640 --> 00:46:31.930 media dot com slash launch or email Logan at sweet fish media dot com True.