What Not To Do In 2022, with Ruslan Tovbulatov

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.519 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. This 2 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:21.640 is B tob growth coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm 3 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:26.359 your host, Benjie Block, and joining me from Nashville, Tennessee director of 4 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.559 growth here at sweet fish, Dan Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, 5 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:36.280 our creative content lead, Emily Brady. Now here in about ten minutes I 6 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:40.240 am going to share a throwback conversation. We do that here on Fridays. 7 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:44.359 We like to just dust off an old episode because we've had so many in 8 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:47.600 our archive that are worth resharing, and so you'll hear that in just a 9 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:51.240 few minutes. But we're also doing a little bit of show and tell, 10 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.399 and what we want to do is we want to take something we've seen from 11 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:58.039 in and around marketing. Maybe it's a linkedin post or a book or in 12 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:00.399 this case it was a blog that I saw. We just want to chat 13 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:03.799 about it for a few minutes. And so what I'm taking a look at 14 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:10.319 is an article from marketing brew and they're talking about how brands are speaking out 15 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:14.879 on social issues, but it could take years. This is literally the title. 16 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:19.400 It could take years before consumers believe their efforts are sincere and as soon 17 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:23.799 as I saw that title I was like one hundred percent. Yes, there 18 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:30.079 is this huge push, especially because younger adults now right like that, I 19 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:36.640 would say eighteen to thirty range, are going and we want brands that are 20 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:42.040 that care, that show that they care about what we care about. We 21 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:45.519 all like brands like that. But then at the same time there's this skepticism 22 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:49.640 on the rise that companies actually genuinely care, and I thought there was a 23 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.439 a couple paragraphs here that really tell the story. So I'll read this and 24 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:59.599 then we'll throw it to conversation. But here's part of the article. Brands 25 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:04.400 have a reflex that if there's a holiday, they want to post about it, 26 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:08.840 said Nicole pen, president of Full Service Agency EGC Group. But one 27 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:14.680 post a year won't cut it for brands hoping to convince consumers of their commitment 28 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:19.000 to lifting up different communities year around. To earn trust, brands need to 29 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:24.280 commit to meaningful investments in a limited number of issues that are significant or relevant 30 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:29.319 to them, according to pen, and for topics they're not well versed in, 31 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:31.919 she said, it's best to keep quiet. We need to have this 32 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:38.719 conversation more because the larger the brand, the more they're trying to be everything, 33 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:44.360 all things to all people, and it shows a lack of genuine honesty 34 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.919 and care about the things that like you can't be compared, but you can't 35 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:52.840 care about all things. So, Dan, I'll start it with you when 36 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:57.240 you hear this, like, what's your initial response to this article, and 37 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.840 even just the piece that I just read? The article really made me think 38 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.960 a lot and I think it's not so much that people don't trust it as 39 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.960 a lot of these social justice things have, I think, from the public 40 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:14.120 standpoint, has become a permission to plaything, kind of like if you're for 41 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.639 it, then they're just kind of like, okay, whatever, if you're 42 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:22.280 but if you don't stand for it, then then they come after you almost 43 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:25.520 like hey, what the heck, you're not compassionate enough, or whatever, 44 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:30.240 whatever it is, and I'm like, Gosh, so unfair. Actually think 45 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:35.639 it is just not very kind. I think it's my belief, and I 46 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.520 almost wrote this at as a blog linkedin post today, but I think busy, 47 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:45.120 ethical business, have to phrase it with ethical business, is a social 48 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:52.759 good in and of itself, without doing anything extra, providing a ethical service 49 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:58.879 or product that is valuable enough for someone to pay their heart earned cash for. 50 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:03.639 In exchange for is providing a the world a good in some way, 51 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:08.960 because it's a lot easier to do nothing and to serve nobody and only be 52 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:11.919 out for yourself. To work all, to put in all the work of 53 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.960 starting the business, getting the capital, making the thing or providing the service 54 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.079 is going above and beyond. It sours. Some companies do this remarkably well, 55 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.879 some companies less well, and that's why the companies that do it well 56 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:24.959 get paid more. So I find business to be an inherent good if it's 57 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:30.120 ethical and being done well, without like destroying people, the environment or are 58 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.240 the economy in the process of doing it right. There's so many ways you 59 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:38.399 could do it wrong. So I think people actually stifle innovation a little bit 60 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:43.120 by putting thea setting the bar up like way up here for companies, and 61 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.680 the only companies that can do everything the like the world wants them to, 62 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.879 which is have a moral cause and give so much money to nonprofits and employees 63 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:55.680 work only four days a week and have infinite amount of vacation, also get 64 00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:00.160 paid top of market and dis perfect across the board. I'm like, yeah, 65 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:02.360 the only companies that can do that out of the ones that are freaking 66 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:06.720 made it, and all the companies that struggle and are trying to get there 67 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.519 are not going to get there because they were trying to do too much at 68 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:14.560 once. Anyway, that's my hot tick. No, I think it's a 69 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:20.319 good point on the fact that business at its most basic form, like ethical 70 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:26.560 business, like your it's a great add to the world. Like, like 71 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.759 we should be a plotting that from the very get go, and it would 72 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:33.399 also make us a lot more honest as humans if we were to go I 73 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:38.600 don't have the bandwidth to care about literally every single one of these things, 74 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.800 like nope. So we're going to stand behind a few things that are core 75 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:46.519 to us or we're going to also, you could just choose to like kind 76 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.319 of be quiet on some things, and by having that more focused voice, 77 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:55.600 people are going to believe you more when you do something. I even think, 78 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.680 even though this is a really old example, like you look, get 79 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.519 like a Tom Shoes, and the only reason they're successful back then is because 80 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:12.879 they genuinely took on that model, because they had at a genuine care for 81 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.079 that type of structure. Now you have all these brands that come on after 82 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.079 that go like Oh, we'll give away one thing too, and it's like, 83 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:23.240 yeah, it doesn't work really, because you saw a business model that 84 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:27.480 worked and now you're just replicating a business model. Not that you can't replicate 85 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.800 the empathetic heart. So now people aren't buying in the same way, they 86 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.600 aren't thinking about your brand the way you think they are, because it's just 87 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:41.199 you came at it with a like a different level of different level of depth, 88 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.800 and so even when I see big brands like Oh, cool, you 89 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:48.680 changed your logo colors or you, you know you stood behind this campaign from 90 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:55.720 like a social post way, it actually creates to me a greater gap and 91 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:01.920 distance between like how I perceive your brand and, yeah, it just feels 92 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:06.600 kind of removed or like you just doing it to jump on. Actually have 93 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:11.839 a different take on the Tom Shoes ripoffs, but I think the problem, 94 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.319 the reason why they other companies didn't take off is because their products weren't great 95 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.759 and they made their differentiator was the cause, but the differentiator for Tom's wasn't 96 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:24.680 the cause. There's actually they had awesome shoes that were new and interesting. 97 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.879 He actually tested it to make sure the shoes were cool first, that people 98 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:30.439 are like, oh, these are freaking fantastic, and then he added the 99 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:32.519 story on top of it about the one to one thing in order to make 100 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.480 them good. Everybody else is like, oh, that's the model. I'm 101 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.199 like no, he actually brought some pretty freaking awesome shoes to market, and 102 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:44.759 then the story was the extra that really took it up the notch. Everybody 103 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.480 else was at just added the story and it's like they had eyeglasses. You're 104 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:53.160 like yeah, but it's not any better than any other eyeglasses. Right as 105 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:56.879 I did the same thing. He they made a remarkable car that people wanted. 106 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.240 It just so happened that it was better for the environment. To write. 107 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.240 Yeah, it was like the extra I gave Tesla, the the extra 108 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.680 edge, and it's it's advantage. I think that's at least that's might take 109 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.680 them. What happened? There's this whole topic has been sliced in dice the 110 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:13.480 hundred different ways. I think it's pretty cool. One for the cause, 111 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:18.319 though, before people think of the product, like I think, without thinking. 112 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:22.920 They know that the products good, but they always just they think of 113 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.480 the cause first, which is really neat and goes to show they've done it 114 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.120 well. I mean, you can't be all things to all people. So 115 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:33.480 I think that if you don't have you shouldn't talk. A brand shouldn't talk 116 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:39.279 about social issues if they don't have a passion for that social issue or if 117 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:43.159 they're not on some sort of real mission to to aid that issue. I 118 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.120 think it's better, kind of what vent you was saying, for them to 119 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.120 be silent on that rather than to to pander to people, because people can 120 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:58.519 see right through that, like consumers can see right through the brands that change 121 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.879 their their logos for a month or whatever, or are saying things but are 122 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.279 not backing it up. So when you sent us this article, Benjie, 123 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.039 I immediately was like that's I have no disagreement with this statement. Like it's 124 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.679 going to take years for consumers to believe when brand speak out on social issues, 125 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.919 because it also seems like it's such a it just exploded within the last 126 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.440 couple of years that brand started doing this like so of course they're going to 127 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.000 appear more distant genuine because of the political landscape and everything, and so I 128 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.960 think it's important for brands to pick a cause and lean into it, but 129 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.360 only if they are actually doing something about it. I love that you said 130 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.480 that at the end, because that's one more place I want to go. 131 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:46.559 Is, I do think brands having a cause is a good road to go 132 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.720 down. Like how do? You don't have to do it, but why 133 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.279 not? Like we do want to make the world a better place in all 134 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:58.960 the ways that we can. If there's some things that we talked about it 135 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:03.159 all the time, to the point of Nauseum of like be to be is, 136 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.960 it is. needs to be personal, right need. We are real 137 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:13.519 people, and so if that's how we're thinking, like what, what massive 138 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.399 impact can we have collectively together as a company, as an organization, like 139 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.399 let's let's do some of that, whether it's publicized to everybody or not, 140 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.320 whether it's a campaign that you run or not, like, because wherever you 141 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.159 have a group of people you have an opportunity for good, you might as 142 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.399 well, if someone's passionate about something within your organization and you can get behind 143 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.159 that in some way, like, explore those options. So to me, 144 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.679 it's what's sad about this is the more companies field than need. Like if, 145 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:52.000 if we don't do this, we'll get boycotted. It's either they go 146 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:56.080 all in because they're afraid that they'll get boycotted if they say nothing, or 147 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.279 they just remain completely on the sidelines. On the other side, hope no 148 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:01.679 one says anything. Can they just like stay out of the news completely? 149 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.000 And in that case then it's like they never actually get in and and find 150 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:13.600 a cause that they could stand behind. So I hope, because there is 151 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.919 a younger generation of people that do seem to be pretty like cause driven, 152 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.600 and there's goods and bads in that. I just hope that the good ends 153 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.080 up winning out. I think there's a lot of potential, because this conversations 154 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.840 coming to the forefront, that good can come from it. But it's never 155 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:28.960 going to be all good, right. There's always going to be some of 156 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.279 this like pandering and stuff that we have to navigate. One final example I'd 157 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.559 love to give as a company that is went all in on one cause, 158 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:43.320 and it's a webhosting company out of eastern Eastern Europe called WPX Donnet, and 159 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:48.240 the founder it's funny because he champions something that I'm not particularly passionate about, 160 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.080 but they are and they use it in their marketing and they're genuine about and 161 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:54.080 they show how they do things about and they're the founder and like really loves 162 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.879 dogs, so he pumps all. They all the whole focus. So the 163 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.840 is nonprofit stuff is around, like dog shelters, and that's it. I've 164 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.279 even I worked for a nonprofit previously and I asked for a discount because it's 165 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.480 pretty common for companies give nonprofit discounts. Of like now we only give distance 166 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:13.039 dog shelters or actually just give it to them for free, but that's our 167 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:18.279 nonprofit work and I was like respect, respect. It's not what I'm into, 168 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:20.519 not that I don't like dogs. Like dogs. Dogs are fine, 169 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.159 but it's not like the cause that I would have picked. and honestly, 170 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.759 it's genuine and they could put a focused effort on that one thing over time 171 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.080 and show an actual result from it, which I kind of admire. I'm 172 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.879 like, you know it, they're just going to go after one thing and 173 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:37.480 just do it, or try to try to do that remarkably well, not 174 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.759 that they have to, because they provide a freaking great web service in and 175 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.120 of itself. Everything else is just cream on the cake. I'm very thankful 176 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:50.440 that they have a great service because I use it personally. Sweet, not 177 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.559 professionally, but, and I'm thankful for that, but good for them to 178 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:56.879 try to do a little extra. Well, I think that's a good point. 179 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:00.919 I think a lot of brands think that they're these like three or four 180 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.679 causes that they have to support, when there's like a whole range of them. 181 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.200 It's almost like, how can you not be passionate about like one cause 182 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.279 when there's so many out here? Like, how can you not pick one? 183 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.039 And you don't even have to talk about it at a time, but 184 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.600 just like be about it. You know, if you are a big big 185 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:26.320 enough brands like you should be giving back somehow. I mean that's not going 186 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.120 to say like you should be doing that. I personally think like that's a 187 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.519 really cool thing and that's something that, like, if I had a company, 188 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:35.440 I would love to do. Not that you have to do it, 189 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:43.000 but there's just so many social causes that were like, for whatever reason, 190 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.200 thinking that it's only a few, and I think it's interesting Dan that you 191 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.879 bring that up, because a lot of people might not even realize that that's 192 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:52.720 what they're their causes. They might even look at, you know, what 193 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.279 they're not talking about, and that's another things. People look at what you're 194 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.720 not talking about and persecute you for that when you are talking about other good 195 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:03.919 things. So it is. It's a tough one to you're going to lose 196 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:09.840 probably some way, but there's it's very admirable to pick one social issue and 197 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.639 stick up for it. So I'll end with a story. When I was 198 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.919 in high school we went to feed my starving children in Illinois. There is 199 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:24.399 like this nonprofit and basically there's teams of people and you pack meals and then 200 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:28.720 they send those meals overseas. And so I was there with like a church 201 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:33.919 group and we were there at the same time as a very large I won't 202 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.000 say the name of the brand, but they were there. Is A cell 203 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:41.559 phone service company and it was like a headquarter thing, like a way of 204 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.039 giving back, and so they all showed up in their shirts and they're all 205 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.120 you know, they're taking photos and all the stuff, and you have to 206 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.159 go through like a fifteen twenty minute training before you go into start help making 207 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:00.279 these meals. and The lady was doing our introduction and she likes specific quickly 208 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.200 pointed at all of us and we're like I was again, I'm in still 209 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.240 in high school, and she is like they're here for the right reason. 210 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.200 He's like, I don't know why all you guys are here. We're glad 211 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:13.720 that we have the hands to help. But she literally told them, analyze 212 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.879 your heart before you go in there, and I want you to show up 213 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.919 like them. And I've thought about that so much because I think in marketing 214 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.480 we end up in a place where we like, Oh, this will look 215 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:28.919 so good for social media or this will look so good for social posts. 216 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.159 And when I read this article I thought of that because I'm like, dude, 217 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.480 I don't want to show up for the wrong reasons and I don't want 218 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:37.320 to show up because, yeah, you like have to, you know what 219 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:39.480 I mean, like I don't want to do anything in my life for that. 220 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.000 Like I want to show up genuine and honest. And the fear that 221 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.320 I have in marketing is that we make things so shiny that it's like everything 222 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:54.559 has a, I don't know, some crappy thing behind it where it's like 223 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.960 I'm I'm actually twisting your arm. I know how to say this the right 224 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:02.840 way. So now I'm like and I just I hope that as brands and 225 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.279 as the things that we're creating, when we're giving back. We're giving back 226 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:08.399 for the right reasons, and so that's where I'll leave us. Is just, 227 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:11.440 man, if we're going to do something for going to pick something like, 228 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.960 just do it for the right reasons and not just for the public accolad 229 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.720 or whatever. So good topic, great article. You can go read it 230 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.879 again. It's on marketing brew their blog, so check them out, marketing 231 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:33.960 brewcom. We are going to jump into today's full conversation. It's a throwback 232 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.399 episode, Dustin off and old, old conversation, but one that is ever 233 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:42.039 green and still applicable. So here we go. Let's I've in. Today 234 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.440 I'm joined by a new friend, Russ Long. Welcome in. Your the 235 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:51.320 VP of global marketing at gloat. That is quite the title, but glad 236 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.159 to be here and get to chat with you today. Man, thank you 237 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:59.000 for having me, Benjie. Absolutely so. Twenty twenty two is here and 238 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.639 I'm excited for this episode, man, because I don't know about you, 239 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:07.680 but when covid hit, I feel like I blinked and two years pasted like 240 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.480 times just flying by. But we're going to have fun and because it's the 241 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.599 beginning of a new year, we thought we would sort of do what like 242 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:21.759 an anti resolution episode. Yes, yeah, everyone's talking about the resolutions they 243 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:23.400 want to make for the new year and everyone's thinking about what to do. 244 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.720 So I've been reflecting a lot on what I don't want to do, what 245 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.119 not to do in two thousand and twenty two, and so, yeah, 246 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.079 it's a bit of an anti resolution list that we've been compiling, and I 247 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:38.200 think these things are so timely to us and because it's so easy to hear 248 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.519 in all of the noise like do this, you should try this diet, 249 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:45.559 you should try this in your marketing, in your business, like. I 250 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.279 mean that is everywhere. We're hoping that we give you some solace over the 251 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.519 next few minutes to go. Here's here's five things I want to strategically not 252 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:57.000 do right, like here's five things that will really hopefully just be helpful tips 253 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.640 and things to be reminded of throughout the next twelve months and throughout the next 254 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.839 year, and I think it's going to make us highly more effective in our 255 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.640 marketing and inner work. So give me a little bit of your background real 256 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.200 quick man, just so people have some flavor for you and kind of what 257 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.599 you do day in and day out before we jump into this list. Yeah, 258 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.400 solutely so. The quick background is, you know, I've been a 259 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:22.799 marketing for a long part of my career. The name is rousselant to Bulletov, 260 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.960 by the way, it's very Russian. If you're great nating. I 261 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.960 was born in Moscow, Russia. So I live in the US now. 262 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.319 I'm you're based in Manhattan, New York, but very tied to my roots 263 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:37.039 and Russia, family there. And Yeah, I started my career actually on 264 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.720 you know, I moved to the states. That my we might get into 265 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.440 some of those things where, you know, I've a very must cultural background. 266 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.119 That kind of informs a lot of my marketing approach and I think about 267 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.839 things. But started my career here in marketing consulting at a company called can't 268 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.440 are retail, doing large scale consumer research. Learned a ton there around the 269 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:57.079 consuper mentality and mindset, decision making, pricing, packaging, all those things. 270 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:00.599 was a google and Youtube for a very long time. Could we could 271 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.680 do a whole episode on that. Was An amazing experience. But for sure 272 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.200 they're at a time when a lot of brands were moving into digital and mobile 273 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:08.759 and youtube was becoming a thing. So we were helping a lot of the 274 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:12.920 largest brands. Adapt there and then joined thrive global, which is the health 275 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:18.799 about being company run by Rian Huffington, and was ended up being CMO there, 276 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.839 chief marketing officer, after doing product and partnerships work as well. I 277 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.480 was employee off team, grew that business like crazy and then most recently joined 278 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:29.400 a company called gloat, which is in the kind of talent space, and 279 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:30.920 I'm sure we'll up a little bit more about that, but I'm running the 280 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.839 VP of marketing there, so running the preparations from, you know, demand 281 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:40.079 to brand to product marketing and a few things in between. So I think 282 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:41.839 a lot about, you know, managing a team, growing a team, 283 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.680 scaling it and yeah, as we think about, you know, the year 284 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.039 ahead, as we're planning the year, thinking about definitely what we need to 285 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:51.200 do as a business, but also some of the things we might want to 286 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.200 leave behind, which I think brings us to this conversation. For sure, 287 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:57.720 that's a fun winding journey that it's going to be fun to just kind of 288 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.279 tap into some of that today with you. Well, let's jump in here. 289 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.000 So we have a list of five things right, five things that we're 290 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:10.359 going to resolve not to do, and I'll just throw it back to you. 291 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:12.279 Give us the first one, and what's something that you're saying? I 292 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:17.160 don't want to do this this next year, right. Yes, one is 293 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.400 don't confuse urgent with important. Hmm, I think a lot of people hear 294 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.319 about this. I'll give you kind of my perspective on why it's so important. 295 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.079 You know, people talk about and and hopefully a lot of people think 296 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.680 about. You know that our seeing the Eisenhower Matrix, if you have, 297 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:32.920 and you should definitely Google it. It's this idea that I think a lot 298 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.839 of times in our lives, especially in our work, you know, we'll 299 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:40.240 get a slack, will get an email and we almost assign and we something 300 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:45.440 to get done today or this week and we kind of naturally assign importance with 301 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.119 urgency, like just because something is said to get done today, we almost 302 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.319 automatically assume that it is important. I think I've been really catching myself, 303 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.799 especially in covid error, thinking like what is actually really important in a moment 304 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.079 and what is just seemingly urgent. And that's why, you know, it's 305 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.319 very important always as you get a request. One of the things is rules 306 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:10.319 I apply is slack and email or really good for telling you what's urgent. 307 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.680 They're usually bad at telling you what's important like that. But your calendar, 308 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.720 and of course you're okay ours and goal setting that you should be doing, 309 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.920 but especially your calendar and a weekly basis, should be telling you what's important. 310 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.440 Not always good to telling you it's urgent, but you need to find 311 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:26.640 that balance between the two. And so one of the things I always do 312 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.240 is, how do we look at our calendar, because you're making those decisions 313 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.759 of like when do I have to meet with certain people? How do you 314 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:36.599 prioritize those things? How much time do you set aside for working blocks? 315 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:40.000 Hopefully you're doing that, but those are the decisions you've already made of where 316 00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:41.680 your time should be spent in the rank order. But a lot of times 317 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.640 we get distractions that we say, Oh, maybe something's Bargin. So how 318 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.759 do we actually make sure we're always aware and think about that Eisenhower Major? 319 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:49.720 If you won't have time to go through it, I can talk for an 320 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.400 hour about it, but how do you always know and ask yourself, is 321 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:59.559 this truly important and urgent or just urgent? Yeah, actually so last month 322 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:04.480 on be toob growth, we did a throwback series and we referenced believe it's 323 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:10.920 Kevin Cruz, but he talks about he'd he interviewed all of these like billionaires 324 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:15.720 and he compiled like time management tips, right, and the most important takeaway 325 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.480 from that whole episode for me, and bringing it back really, was the 326 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.799 idea of time blocking, which I think is something that's talked a lot about 327 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.160 in in marketing or highly like efficient successful people. I've heard that so much, 328 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.319 right, but we go through seasons where like we're really busy Z or 329 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.119 were really not, and have that consistency to actually work us towards like okay, 330 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:38.079 I'm putting this on my calendar, I'm putting this in my schedule and 331 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:44.279 I'm doing that consistently. It will help you really determine what's most important right 332 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.759 now. So I love this one because I raise my hand as so guilty 333 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.440 of the slack hits, the email hits and all the sudden I'm just I'm 334 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.279 just distressed to do you find that personally for you your kind of that personality 335 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.559 type. Yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm guilty of it too. 336 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.039 You know, I'm the first to be guilty to like say I have an 337 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:06.000 idea or there's something game in or we heard, you know, from the 338 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.759 CEO or someone. We have an idea. You know, it's like part 339 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.799 of the management is definitely deciding what to pass along. But I'm the type 340 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:14.759 if I get excited about something, it's very hard for me to hide it. 341 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.359 I think one of those two things I actually do myself that I try 342 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:18.759 to empower my team to do. I think the first one you mentioned, 343 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:21.880 by the way, the calendar, is very powerful. There's two others. 344 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.960 One is the idea of big rocks. Is Very important and I try to 345 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:27.720 instill that in our team. It's very hard to do, but Stephen Cubby 346 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.920 did this like ages ago and there's a funny video because it seems so old 347 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.680 but it's still so relevant. It's this idea that you try to fill a 348 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.279 jar and you start with the pebbles and sand, you won't leave room for 349 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.960 the actual big rocks, but if you start with the big rocks, you 350 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.359 will owe the sand and pebbles will fill in and around it, and so 351 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.000 the same container can hold much more if you start with the big rocks, 352 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.200 and that is actually I try to instill. That's like, what are the 353 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.599 three things you're going to do this week that I absolute priority. It's so 354 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.039 natural for people start listing four and five and six and seven, but on 355 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.119 my team how I manage, how I try to say what are the real 356 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:03.839 top three? Yes, you can list other things if you really need to, 357 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.359 but I just want to hear about those big three because those are the 358 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:10.839 needle movers. And then ruthlessly prioritizing. We literally used to do this in 359 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.559 my prettily previous organization. To is like how do you ruthlessly prioritize? And 360 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.200 it's an amazing action to take. If someone gives you something to do and 361 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.480 says this is urgent, go back to that person and actually have an honest 362 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.200 conversation. Say Hey, I have these other three things that I was really 363 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:30.200 prioritizing. I'll help me rank order this, help me put this in stack, 364 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:32.559 rank this. It's so funny. A lot of people don't take that 365 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.200 step, but it's a really human natural thing to just go back and ask 366 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.440 like Hey, I have these other priorities, and it doesn't have to be 367 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.480 neither kindescending nor aggressive. It could just beg hey, I kind of need 368 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.200 your advice, like where do you think this stack? Pranks helped me understand 369 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.559 the importance. I know their urgency help me understand the importance. So those 370 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:53.440 are some things that I'm introducing. Yeah, the overcommunication of where something is 371 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.119 on the priority list is so helpful for the team. But it also shows 372 00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:02.039 that if you know to your boss or whoever us like, it shows that 373 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.440 you're taking responsibility. Right like that, you're really thinking through the process, 374 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.279 you're really owning it and going, okay, what's most important to our business 375 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.599 right now? It's most important to our department right now. So that's really 376 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.759 ruthless priority. I love how you said that. I think that's a really 377 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.200 good way of thinking about it. Let me ask you this. You say 378 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.799 that you talk about the top three every week. What does that look like 379 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:25.519 and how does that compare to maybe your quarterly goals or longer term goals? 380 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.839 I think it's a great segueing to actually number two for me, because I 381 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:32.559 think what we just talked about is very effective on a daily, weekly basis. 382 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:34.400 I think the second rule, I called it in my kind of list, 383 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.680 as I'm thinking about the year, don't sweat the small stuff or don't 384 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.720 day it distracted by the small stuff. But really what that is is like 385 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.160 think about the big bets, like what are the actual needle movers over the 386 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.559 course of a quarter, half a year, maybe even more, because I 387 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.799 think top three, you know, is a really good thing for weekly. 388 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.319 But I think it realistically, when you're sending Okrs, you're setting kind of 389 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:56.880 objectives of the court. You need to think a longer time horizon and there's 390 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.480 gonna be more things you do than just three. I think a lot of 391 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.039 companies actually forget to set those and like make those big bets, and I've 392 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.680 been up through that, especially when you're smaller. I don't know if people 393 00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:08.000 listening in there, and you know, either seed stage or series a, 394 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:11.720 series B, it's very easy to not have an okr process. But I'll 395 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.240 tell you, like as a manager, even for yourself, just setting at 396 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:19.119 the beginning of a quarter the goals that you hope to achieve, even if 397 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:23.839 they're complete assumptions, it's so incredibly powerful because when you're on the grind of 398 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.279 building a business, and by the way, this was true google to and 399 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.440 we have tens of thousands of people oak but okay, ours are so well 400 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.720 established and organizations like that. It's almost harder when you're smaller. I think 401 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.240 you have to, because you'll see time goes by and all of a sudden 402 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.000 three months go a quarterbind. You almost don't remember how much you achieved, 403 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.039 but if you look back at that elige original list, you can have made 404 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.039 a lot of progress. The question then becomes how do you set those priorities? 405 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.720 That's the hard part and just one of the things I'll just share on 406 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:56.319 that and the pauses. Somewhere in the business, even if you don't have 407 00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:59.839 metrics, there are goals that exist because even if you're at seed stage, 408 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.400 there's someone, either the CEO or the head of finance like, goals are 409 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.160 being set and communicated, whether it's to a board or investors, etc. 410 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:12.200 Goals exist. So it's a matter of figuring out, starting with the business. 411 00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.599 What are the business goals? What is the board expecting? For sure 412 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.680 investors expecting. Those things exist. If you're in a private company in public, 413 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.440 you know a lot of this stuff is public. And then the second 414 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.240 piece is think about like what is the rest of the organization doing? You 415 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.440 know, ask around like easier product team. Do they have a bunch of 416 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.400 releases happening that you can support if you're in marketing? But it can also 417 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.680 be any other CS, like wherever you are in the organization, and then, 418 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.000 only then, do you set your own kind of and make up your 419 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.319 own goals. So for me, that's a big part of it is definitely 420 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:44.279 think about Ok ours in the quarter and then think about what are other teams 421 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:48.400 in the organization, what is the business expecting, so that your your priorities 422 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.160 almost fall onto that. Hmm, I love that and I totally agree. 423 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.599 The earlier the better. So let me give you a story. Last company 424 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.400 I worked for introduced okay ours, but we were already scaling and growing quite 425 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:06.319 a bit right. So then the headache that it is to try to implement 426 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:11.759 and share the vision of an Ok our system when you're already moving so fast, 427 00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.640 like you can do it, right, if you're listening to this and 428 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.440 you aren't there yet, like I don't I don't want to discourage you, 429 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.640 I want to encourage you into it, but I will say, like, 430 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:25.400 the earlier on the better, because you set that culture early and it's like 431 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.880 we already have the format, we already know where to reference all this stuff. 432 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:32.440 It's already built in and versus, like a man. Well, now 433 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:34.799 we have all these people that were trying to like align and you know. 434 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:40.599 So just lead from the top and start that now, or lead from wherever 435 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:44.200 you are in the organization and read up on it. There's so many videos 436 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.680 on youtube that can help you with okrs too, like but I just think 437 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.000 the earlier the better for that, because it's such a headache once you have 438 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.480 a lot of people involved. I think that reframe is so important to like 439 00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.359 it's really can't it won't work if it feels like, Oh, it's a 440 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.920 chore, we have to do an upper management decided and the CEO said we're 441 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.519 going to do a cares the power of it and why I'm realizing how important 442 00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:08.279 it is and how now I want every single person. I very clearly defined 443 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:12.240 objectives and the key results. As you see how powerful as it is as 444 00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.839 a motivator, like when you launch a campaign. We had this campaign, 445 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.000 we were launching you. We sat at the outside. You know, last 446 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.519 year we did this campaign similar and we had about fifteen hundred leads come in 447 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.200 or Mq owls who said what if we doubled it? What if we got 448 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.640 to Threezero? And then you had people like you had the project manager on 449 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:33.480 the team almost accounting everyone else, even senior management, even the CEO, 450 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:36.559 being like we need to get to three thousand, like we're clearing the calendar. 451 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:40.599 Going back to this prioritization. The reason we knew, like this campaign, 452 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:42.799 we had a goal. I said, everyone on the team became obsessed 453 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:47.400 more than I did. I wanted three thousand. Sure, I'm compensate on 454 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:48.559 that in a way, you know, like that's my goal, but it 455 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.680 became everyone's going. So when you set those objectives, even if they're crazy 456 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:57.920 or unachievable, honestly, like it's still rallies someone and it really inspires them 457 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:03.359 to all focus on one thing and it could be very powerful. HMM. 458 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.480 So, okay, so don't get distracted by the small stuff. That's our 459 00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:11.160 second on the list. One of the things here that to be thinking about 460 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.519 is like big creative campaigns across channels, right, like so for marketing, 461 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:21.240 like where are we going to create buzz and and kind of move the needle? 462 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.960 Talk to me a little bit about how you think about that. So 463 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.839 it's not just a small stuff, but it's like this is really what we're 464 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.799 focused on. Yeah, it's such a good point. I'll give again how 465 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.279 we could talk a lot more about this. But I think the quick insight 466 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.319 is even as a leader, you know, says marketers, a lot of 467 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:38.920 us are all the perfectionist, and I'm definitely guilty of this, where I'll 468 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:41.759 like, I'll want to edit the you know, the one piece of content 469 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.519 we have, or even the social post. But actually, what I've been 470 00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.079 really realizing, especially as you think about you know, when I do two 471 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:49.680 thousand and twenty two planning, I actually looking at targets for two thousand and 472 00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:52.880 twenty three, and that's like, especially as you at by place in the 473 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.559 Organization of your vp or ahead of, let alone Dr c level, you 474 00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.759 know you're thinking years ahead. And so this idea that you can't, you 475 00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.200 really can't be sweating the small stuff. And what I really recommend people do, 476 00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.119 and I've been doing this, is like it's also not about two marketing 477 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.960 to just invent things right. It really is kind of going back to what 478 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:12.839 I was saying, like let's look at what is the board expecting, what 479 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.720 is the business set to do, and then ask the series of questions, 480 00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:19.720 like what is marketings roll in it? Okay, let's say you have that 481 00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.759 close a hundred deals. You've said you're going to close a hundred deals in 482 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:27.480 q one, okay, what is marketings roll or the expectations of marketing? 483 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.799 How many of those are going to be mark getting sourced or marketing originated? 484 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.839 How many of those are going to be marketing influence? Maybe it's a hundred 485 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.400 aligned on those expectations and then say, okay, how do we get there? 486 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.519 Some of them, I come from product releases and that's the idea. 487 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.559 Is, I guess it cross cell up cell. Is it? You know, 488 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.759 those new deals are they are we doing the legacy products or some of 489 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:51.079 the new products? are their new segments for going into? There's all these 490 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.680 questions to ask. Is You're setting those big priorities and that's why I think 491 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:57.799 about you can either get caught in the linkedin post or the twitter, the 492 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.079 tweet or the or the instagram post, or really have like these strategic view 493 00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:05.839 and whatever you are in the organization, I think starting from the top down 494 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.640 and thinking about like how do I contribute, even in the smallest way, 495 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:12.079 to the biggest metric? I think that's important. And then marketing really, 496 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.920 to me, has to fill in the gaps. You either supporting some of 497 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.799 those things, like product launches. Okay, how do we activate product, 498 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.920 it's product marketing, it's probably demand, it's probably content, like all of 499 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.559 us need to come together to launch the new product or a new segment. 500 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:28.200 But then there are other things where, like, Hey, we don't have 501 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.079 a product launch, maybe we have a loaf for six months, and that's 502 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:34.440 where you introduce events, that's when you introduce campaigns. Maybe you want to 503 00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.920 kind of come up with something new and creative that you haven't done before, 504 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.880 and that's why I think then the your own big bets kind of come in 505 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:43.160 in that way. So that's how I think about there's probably a lot of 506 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.240 different frameworks for it that we can discuss too, but that's at the high 507 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:49.839 level how I think about it. There's so much to think about there. 508 00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.559 The one thing that you said that to really sticking out to me is like 509 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:57.519 right questions, right results, because if we have the wrong questions or we 510 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:01.279 don't ask enough questions and we're just trying to you know, I wouldn't say 511 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.920 we're trying to just get by right, but if you ask the right question 512 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.480 to the right person, it can really help give you that like okay, 513 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:12.359 this is the big thing that we need to be focused on and, like 514 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.079 you said, when you're really high up and you're thinking further out, those 515 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:20.880 conversations are are vital and making sure that you're you are asking the strategic question. 516 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.039 It's like such a big deal. Absolutely all right. So we have 517 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:30.400 first one, don't confuse urgent with important. Second don't get distracted by the 518 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:34.799 small stuff. Here's the third one. Don't copy and paste. Expand on 519 00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:37.400 that a little bit for me. What is that all entail? Yeah, 520 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.559 I think this one, you know, could have been true. I think 521 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:44.279 even as we were entering Covid I think a lot of people realize it's some 522 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:47.039 of the old ways or no longer in apply. But I think it's been 523 00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:50.799 interesting because I have heard this, you know, as we work in the 524 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.319 talent space, we work with h our leaders. I think there's this sense 525 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.920 that there's going to be a return to normalcy and that we can kind of 526 00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:59.039 go back to the way things where I think a lot of people realize it's 527 00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:02.000 probably not realistic, but I actually realize like this is such an opportunity, 528 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.880 especially for our team, to kind of reimagine everything, where I think this 529 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:12.280 ongoing uncertainty is going to exist, like the word kind of continue being hybrid 530 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.880 we're going to continue being, you know, remote and we are managing a 531 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:19.159 global team. I almost can't predict where I'm going to hire my next marketer. 532 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.679 You know, it's kind of where the talent is will go, and 533 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:23.440 we don't know where the markets going to head. And also like this speed 534 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.559 with which competitors are introduced. You know, it's so easy to start a 535 00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.320 business. There so much funding. There's like there's so much uncertainty. So 536 00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:35.039 for me, I'm like really big right now on taking the playbook from the 537 00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.960 past year and saying, how do we kind of rip it apart, like 538 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.360 what if we re envisioned everything? And to us this might be a crazy 539 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.760 thing, but I'll tell you, like it's just I feel so empowered when 540 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.440 I decided to do this. We're actually looking at all of our historical metrics 541 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.079 and like our host historical team structure, and I'm just revisiting all of it. 542 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:54.920 And so as we enter the new year, and these are not easy 543 00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.599 things, right, because people like some kind of sense of you know, 544 00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:02.119 like it's the way things were, but oh, yeah, there was selling 545 00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:06.239 them on. Yeah, but this idea, like where does the content sit 546 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.360 and what are the objectives of content? Write this idea of like how does 547 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:15.880 actually content play in sales acceleration and how do they actually almost become unified partners 548 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:19.239 with the BDRSDR team and not just like you know, a lot of the 549 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:23.760 companies will think about content as the blog or the linkedin channel or their tweets 550 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.440 or whatever, but it's so much bigger than that. It actually is is 551 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.159 incredibly powerful tool that I really believe sits across the whole stack, all the 552 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.800 way to the sale, all the way to renewals. Where and so that 553 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.360 change is the way you might structure a team and changes though KR scape, 554 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.159 as it might change even discussions you have internally to say, Hey, we 555 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.519 maybe the board shouldn't just be hearing about mql's and leads anymore from the marketing 556 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:51.199 team. What about renewals? What about how we accelerate sales cycles? And 557 00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.239 there's a lot of these conversations that need to have. Please go ahead. 558 00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:57.719 Okay, wait, because I want to hear you expand on the renewals portion, 559 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:00.760 like when you're reimagining this, thinking about it, how do you see 560 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:05.119 content in that kind of like fuse together? What's the connection you started to 561 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.039 draw? There's two things I've been thinking a lot about one and this is 562 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:13.079 a perfect exam and maybe this is kind of no brainer, but customer marketing 563 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:15.199 is a is a very important role. I think that a lot of organizations 564 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:19.920 don't hire four early and I didn't actually in the past year and a half 565 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.480 or so a boat. But it's very important because you think about how are 566 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:27.800 we actually maintaining the relationships? Of course you have an amazing customer success team, 567 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:29.599 but that's the reality is. You know, there are a lot of 568 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:31.960 times in the weeds. They're like making sure the product is working really well. 569 00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:35.639 They're looking at kind of the day to day, week to week operations. 570 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.559 Are they seeing growth? But they're not necessarily always kind of creating the 571 00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:43.360 low within the organization. Say Hey, do you need advice from another customer? 572 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.159 Do you want to get invited to a customer community event? Do you 573 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.239 want to give us feedback on the Future Product Road Map? And these are 574 00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.679 all basics. I think when you're in large organizations like a Google, they're 575 00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:58.920 just happening somewhere, but establishing that function early and really thinking about, okay, 576 00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.039 how does customer marketing play in? But then what is the rule of 577 00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:06.119 content and community and that's a really important question. A lot of companies aren't 578 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:10.039 thinking of. I definitely wasn't until more recently, because companies might love you, 579 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:13.840 but they might need advice. And okay, where's we just finished stage 580 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.039 one, we finished the pilot, we're about to scale everyone else, or 581 00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:20.519 hey, we want to expand to our frontline workers. It's a perfect example, 582 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:22.159 and this is a lot of technologies people are selling. Probably we often 583 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:27.440 times optimize for the desk worker, you know, slack, etc. I 584 00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.239 think about all these technology we talk about every day that we are using right 585 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.920 now, zoom, etc. There for a certain part of the population. 586 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:37.519 But we're about we actually have an offering for front mine. No one has 587 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:43.199 really solved that in the whole industry. So this idea that you know that 588 00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:45.760 we can just anyone can come and answer that for them is impossible. It's 589 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.760 actually going to be about community, about learning from each other and then about 590 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.760 generating content and then inspires the next company or the next batch to actually say, 591 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.840 Oh, you know, this is how this could be done. Now 592 00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:59.719 that is all renewal and upset, by the way, because these are existing 593 00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:04.199 customers. But I think the way we actually leverage marketing to connect the right 594 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.960 people, to create community, to create content from the learnings. Those are 595 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.559 all the things that I'm thinking about. How do we actually automate and scale 596 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.880 that? There's a lot of learning to be done. But once we established 597 00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:15.880 the baby to be gross listeners, we want to hear from you. In 598 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.599 fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to B TOB 599 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:24.280 growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance 600 00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:29.119 to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus. The first fifty participants will 601 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.280 receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more 602 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:37.559 time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two, letter 603 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:45.760 be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the 604 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:52.039 show to enter and look forward to hearing from you. Some people need to 605 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.920 rewind the last two minutes and re listen to that, because I think that 606 00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.000 thought process. Some of the questions that you're pondering. You don't have to 607 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.119 give an answer. I think this is something I'm learning in podcasting around a 608 00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.559 lot right now. Is it when we just focus on what is a strategic 609 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.840 question? What something like you kind of brought it up. Of Okay, 610 00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:15.800 this is the historical way we've done it. I want to just imagine what 611 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:16.719 it'd be like. I'm not even saying we have to blow it up, 612 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:20.440 I'm not even saying we have to change it. But when's the last time 613 00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:23.000 that we said this isn't just like concrete? The way we're for sure doing 614 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:27.760 it over the next twelve months. And when you start to think about customer 615 00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.519 marketing, you're right. A lot of big companies get it really well right 616 00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:34.880 because they got the budget to hire somebody to think that way, whereas a 617 00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:37.440 lot of smaller companies are going, all right, well, we just have 618 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:39.800 to you know, we just had to get more customers. Like that's that's 619 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.079 the only thought process. But I'll give you another story, another example. 620 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:49.599 spotify. I know they're a huge example, but a way that they've done 621 00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:54.400 this really well to get hyper individual. I'm an early adopter and they sent 622 00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.880 me a message. I can't even tell you how long ago this was, 623 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.079 man, this was probably several years ago. I had forgotten about it. 624 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:07.360 They have a product team that was developing a new product and it was going 625 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:13.840 to basically be like think of almost like a tablet for your car. And 626 00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:15.760 it's going to be. If you don't have a test love, you don't 627 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:21.280 have like a newer model car that has some epic big screen in it already, 628 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.199 go ahead, if you sign up for this, will send you one 629 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:27.360 for free, so you're not on your phone while you're driving. Here's a 630 00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.159 here's a screen, right. So they're thinking about the customers that are you 631 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:32.079 on? If you're already a customer, you're eligible. Just give us your 632 00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:36.400 email, like, sign up this little form, give us a little bit 633 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:39.480 more detail and whatever. They message me like two weeks ago and like they're 634 00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.320 still developing it. They're like hey, it's ready for you. So, 635 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:45.079 like and it's again. It's just like they didn't have to do that, 636 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:49.199 right, they could have made it only available to new customers, but it's 637 00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.360 this ongoing thought process of like how can we up our customer marketing? What 638 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.880 other value can we add to them? That it's really impressed me, and 639 00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.199 that's it's a big example, but there's there's definitely other ones for sure. 640 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.519 So I love this and that's a perfect example of like that's where you need 641 00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.119 to believe in not copying and pasting to enable an idea like that and that's 642 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.440 why that's like a pretty such a big part of that, because the customer 643 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.880 marketing pieces is just one of them. You know, it's like how do 644 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.079 we actually think about the next year and actually try entirely new things? It 645 00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.440 might it might mean. As another example for us, it's you know, 646 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.039 I think a lot of times people talk about this like no lead form movement 647 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.400 and like really focusing and doubling down on ABM. But I'm like it's a 648 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.199 tough transition and we're just going to do it and basically told the team is 649 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:34.920 like we're going to rip the BANDAID. I'm going to start stop looking at 650 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.800 our enterprise funnel as a funnel entirely. I almost have them starting these conversations 651 00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.800 and basically need alignment all the way up to the board. Is Like I 652 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:45.679 actually don't want it to be about mqls and leads for a large part of 653 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.719 our book of business, because we have a target account list. We know 654 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.000 the named accounts. How do we actually create a super high touch initiatives that 655 00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:58.920 allow us to actually grow those businesses from? And that's the inverted pyramid. 656 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.559 You know, there a lot of models, but it's so hard to make 657 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:06.239 that pivot like everyone talks about it on podcasts and I've been talking about it 658 00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:07.440 for a long time too. How do we do it? But we're doing 659 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.840 it this year because I basically said I refused to copy and paste. I'm 660 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.800 I'm almost throwing away the old benchmarks that we have and we're just going to 661 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:17.760 create a new model and we're going to try it. We're going to try 662 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:21.480 over q one, Q two. We're not going to rip it completely, 663 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:22.599 you know, we're going to still make sure we're creating a funnel so we 664 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:25.400 don't kill the business, but I'm going to invest heavily until, like, 665 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:30.320 what if we just inverted it and actually did a large part of investment focusing 666 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.000 on the accounts first and growing it from the bottom up. So those are 667 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:37.159 the things, like you need to basically be comfortable with, not just copying 668 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:42.079 and basting and trying new things. That is we could spend so much time 669 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:46.039 there. I love that and okay, let's keep things moving, so don't 670 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:49.760 copy and paste. Bring us to number four. What do you got for 671 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:52.079 this one? Yeah, so slightly different, but I think to enable everything 672 00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.079 we just talked about, especially some of the creative ideas, one of the 673 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:58.679 things is hiring. You know, it's a huge challenge for us right now. 674 00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:00.079 How do we get the right people? And what I learned, especially 675 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.599 over the past year, because, you know, I'm we're in the space 676 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:07.800 where the talent hiring space, but you talk to other marketers, it's really 677 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.079 hard to hire out there. It's hard to retain talent. You know, 678 00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:13.480 at the great resignation, or great we call it the reassessment. It's real. 679 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.559 And so the one thing that's really important is don't overlook the talent you 680 00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:21.599 have. Right I think a lot of times we start looking, we get 681 00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:24.440 a this is we get obsessed with this idea of a go I need a 682 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:27.400 new role, so I'm going to go external. I'm going to post it 683 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:29.559 on linked it. Like if you think about I'm going to hire someone, 684 00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:31.840 where do you go? You see your first thoughts probably Linkedin one hundred percent 685 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:36.159 job board. Almost none of us say like, well, let me think 686 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:37.880 about the people that I already have at the company, and even if a 687 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:42.360 tiny company's by the way. And so I'll share one example from from us. 688 00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.400 You know, we reporting on our event, our big yearly event called 689 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.239 gloat live, and it's a really big deal for the company. It's like 690 00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.239 it and as of course it's big as marketing makes it. But we wanted 691 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:57.800 to make it a really big deal and I actually did not hire an events 692 00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:00.719 in field marketer in that time, so I didn't have anyone to own the 693 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:06.400 globe line. And so instead of saying like Oh, I have to hire 694 00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.039 someone or bring on an agency or look external, I said what if we 695 00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:13.679 just created a team from within? And so yes, I had a couple 696 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:15.960 people from marketing and I had some designers from marketing help, but then we 697 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:21.800 pulled in designers from the product team, we pulled in customer success manager, 698 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.719 WHO's supporting? We pulled in someone from the product the there is some of 699 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:28.280 them. We had a product designer, we alls had a product manager. 700 00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:30.679 We got almost every executive involved in different ways, and not just to present 701 00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.719 but to really think about like how to activate. We had office managers involved 702 00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:37.840 to make it a really powerful in person experience. So we literally had this 703 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:43.719 massive working team. I was created a team and events team just using talent 704 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:47.280 from within and we've seen that for part time projects like that it's an incredibly 705 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:51.360 powerful thing. They think we will often overlook the power of just assembling a 706 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:53.679 team and swarming kind of to something, but it's also for hiring people. 707 00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:59.519 One of my like most amazing talents in their organization right now was an account 708 00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:01.840 manager who actually rose, basically raised her hand and said, Hey, I'm 709 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:06.440 kind of interested in marketing, and we gave her an opportunities an account as 710 00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:08.880 a marketing manager and as a marketing coordinator with a start, and now she's 711 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:14.159 actually leading incredible initiatives, leading some of my biggest kind of pains, and 712 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:16.599 also is like a special ops person. But it was all because we gave 713 00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:21.719 a chance to someone from within. That's not always possible. Sometimes you have 714 00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.400 to go and like you need the right experience, you need the right, 715 00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:28.400 you know, skill set, but there's amazing talent within your four walls. 716 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:30.880 And so rule number four, don't for two thousand and twenty two for me 717 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:35.239 and then everyone else out there, don't overlook the talent you have. So 718 00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:38.039 let me ask a couple follow up questions here, because I think this is 719 00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:42.719 one that I would definitely be behind. But I also can hear a couple 720 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:46.480 questions just rattling around in some people's minds. One being great, you are 721 00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:52.119 able to assemble this team right, but how do you know if you're not 722 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:54.199 like this is just too much work on their plate. I think that's an 723 00:45:54.199 --> 00:46:00.880 instant reason why people would go out before hiring within or forming that special team 724 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.960 to swarm. It's okay, well, we're already kind of all hands on 725 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.719 deck, pretty full. So how did you assess that to know we can 726 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.360 pull this off? And then I'll have one more question, but answer that 727 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:14.360 one first for sure. I love that. That's actually goes back to a 728 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:16.079 glow. This is appropriate to just say what we do, because it's like 729 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.880 something that question I actually think about on a day to day basis. We 730 00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:23.000 basically created something called the talent market place, which is allows people on one 731 00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:27.679 side, we understand the skills within an organization and dynamically match them to kind 732 00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:30.199 of work in jobs to be done, and I could be full times, 733 00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.320 but can also be projects, etc. What you're talking about is actually the 734 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:36.320 number one objection we always face. Is like when we sell our product, 735 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:38.719 and it's actually an amazing reality what ends up happening. And we so we 736 00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:40.920 work with like you know, lever, Master Card, you know I just 737 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.960 BEC massive companies, nest, lie, you name them, and what happens 738 00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:52.079 is that people actually get more engaged in their day to day job because they 739 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:54.840 are actually contributing in something bigger than their day to day job. And is 740 00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:59.840 have we are this time and time again, and it's obviously really hard to 741 00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:02.159 quantify, but they we actually have. So, you know, leaver always 742 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:07.719 measures how many hours of productivity were unlocked, and this is purely for projects, 743 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:09.440 not full time roles, not jobs, which is they've basically in a 744 00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.079 couple of years of working with us, have had six hundred fiftyzero hours unlocked 745 00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:16.960 and their retention. There were always measuring also impact on retention and all of 746 00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:22.000 that. And so people it's this weird thing where we're in an I reality 747 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.400 where people are burnt out, they're tired. A lot of that if you 748 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:29.119 really dissect because I think people it's it they're they feel like they're work is 749 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.599 kind of meaningless or they're not working on things that matter to them. And 750 00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:36.559 so what this kind of project, like everyone that worked on glowed live was 751 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:38.800 exhausted at the end, for sure, but if I asked all of them 752 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:42.880 like how engaged they were, how passionate they were about glowed, how excited 753 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.079 they were, I almost guarantee you we didn't do this survey. I kind 754 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.280 of tempted. Now I I almost guarantee every single one of those people feels 755 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.639 more of like a loyalty and engagement to glowed because we were part of something 756 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.159 really special and meaningful that everyone at the company was, you know, kind 757 00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:00.840 of noticing in a part of. So I guess that's kind of perspective on 758 00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:04.639 that question is a really important one, though. I think you hit on 759 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.599 something that actually brings us back to when you were talking about customers in that 760 00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:14.440 sense of community. So it can happen with employees and it can happen externally, 761 00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.760 right where it's like you connect people back to community, you connect people 762 00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:22.280 something bigger than themselves, like, Whoa they thought of me. It's the 763 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:27.559 same external as it is internal. To just go that, yeah, it's 764 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.679 going to build brand loyalty, but I almost don't even like calling it that. 765 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:35.280 It's just like this. It's essentially it's just human connection and it deepens. 766 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:38.320 Oh, they see my value in a department that's not normally mine, 767 00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:43.559 in a seat that's not normally like I'm not normally invited to. So there's 768 00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:47.280 a lot there. Let's let's round it out here and the fifth one is 769 00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:53.480 this. Don't forget to recharge. Why is this one something that's really important 770 00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:58.239 to you personally? I think as a manager, as a leader, it's 771 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.880 you have to really be thinking about this going into the next year. I 772 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.639 mean it's been a really tough two years and you know I'm based in New 773 00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:07.679 York right now. You know the even the beast few weeks. It's like 774 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:13.679 never ending kind of the uncertainty, and so just really acknowledging that everyone's been 775 00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:16.360 working really hard. All the things I just talked about right there. They're 776 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:22.360 hard. They're not easy things. They're exhausting to ruthlessly prioritize right and to 777 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.559 focus on big things right, like to not sweat the small stuff. Takes 778 00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:30.960 Energy to like not confused Ursion with important takes energy to try something new so 779 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.039 you don't copy and paste. Mean these are not easy things. I think 780 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.559 there we have an amazing opportunity to focus on those and do all those in 781 00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:39.960 the new year. But all of that can be really exhausting and I think 782 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.679 there's you know, we're working hybrid. Were glued to screens, there's all 783 00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.679 this data around. Obviously that and the toll that's taking on us I think 784 00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:52.159 the longer we stay here, kind of the human connection piece gets harder. 785 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:57.519 I think really prioritizing is a leader, both taking time yourself but as an 786 00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:01.280 individual, to first and foremost just realize that you are better off for yourself 787 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:04.920 and even for the company, like if you're a company person, you know 788 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.679 you want to like a career oriented person, it's actually better for your career 789 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.400 you take moments to recharge. There is amazing car too, and I know 790 00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:14.920 if there's a way for you to maybe share with audience later, but a 791 00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.119 lison molly. Always have these great cartoons, but there's this there's this visual 792 00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:21.320 basically of like a straight line. Work, work, work, work and 793 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.239 then you get sick and it's a cliff and that's the reality. Right. 794 00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:25.599 Most people think like, Oh, I'll stick the idea, I'll sleep what 795 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:28.800 I'm dead, or I'll rest, you know, whenever like it. Rest 796 00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:31.119 is for the week like that pure meates still society even now, which is 797 00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:35.679 crazy to me. But people don't realize that the real way to do it 798 00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:38.880 and that the alternate right next to that of the peak and then the fall 799 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:43.800 is just a step ladder. It's like work, recharge, work, recharge, 800 00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.280 work, recharge and then what happens is at the end of the line, 801 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:51.079 one person is still like on up and up and the other one is 802 00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:54.079 exhausted and kind of ready to quit or give up or maybe even worse. 803 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:58.480 So for me that's a really important one. Is, as an individual, 804 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:01.039 recognize they reach. Charging is a sign of strength. It's really important. 805 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:06.480 It'll make you better at your work and also more pleasant person. It'll make 806 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:07.679 you more creative, innovative. There's tons of science around that. We won't 807 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:10.079 get into that. But then second is a leader, and this is really 808 00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:15.320 important, is really role modeling it and celebrating it, because a lot of 809 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:20.000 times we might say that but we don't actually celebrate it. So there's little 810 00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:22.440 things I'm trying to do. Like I'm taking off in two weeks, in 811 00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:28.559 that very near future, and I've been very clear with my team. You 812 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.920 can't reach me, you can't slack me, you can't email me. I 813 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:35.199 will be off the grid, just no, no negotiation. If there's a 814 00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:38.159 super emergency you can call me, but I'm not checking. And then when 815 00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:40.199 I come back, I want people to Shay. I'm going to show off 816 00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:43.920 my pictures. I want people to show off pictures of how they relax, 817 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:46.480 even if it was a stacation, but I want to actually create an environment 818 00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:50.440 where that's celebrated. I think a lot of us can actually do more of 819 00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:53.239 that. I love that. I think sharing when we come back is also 820 00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:58.920 a it's a fun part of like how you would build that culture that we 821 00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:00.639 don't think about. Like you might celebrate on the front and like Oh yeah, 822 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:02.960 go take time off. That's pretty I would say that's getting them a 823 00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:07.840 little bit more common. But like when you come back, how you respond 824 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:09.559 who asks you about it, you know you might had a great time and 825 00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:14.079 if it's reinforced in the culture there, it's just another way to make it 826 00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:19.960 a deeper, more impactful and of always celebrate rest in a unique way in 827 00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.679 our organization and our company. So I love that. Man, this is 828 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:28.440 a great list. I'm going to recap US real quick, but before I 829 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:32.159 read the five, I will say I'm taking away ruthless priority as as a 830 00:52:32.199 --> 00:52:35.480 new phrase. That was all the way back from number one, but I 831 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:38.880 just I think that that is a way to think about things if you're naturally 832 00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:42.920 just a busybody or you have a lot on your plate, which I know, 833 00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:45.719 if you're listening to this, you probably do so thanks for making time 834 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:49.519 to listen, right, but ruthless priority is is a phrase that I think 835 00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:52.679 would really be helpful over the next twelve months and just into the future. 836 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:55.320 So, okay, here's our here's our list. We got five. We 837 00:52:55.400 --> 00:53:00.760 don't confuse urgent with important, we don't get distracted by the small stuff, 838 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:05.679 we don't copy and paste, we don't overlook the talent we have and we 839 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:09.480 don't forget to recharge. And excellent list of five things, sort of our 840 00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:15.800 anti resolutions. Anything you would add before we wrap this episode? No, 841 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:20.480 just help. Everyone stays healthy and happy and we're whether you're listening in the 842 00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:23.920 new year, wherever, whenever you're listening, I think it's it's going to 843 00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.719 be an exciting year. There's a lot of opportunities in the marketing space. 844 00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:30.400 It's that ever changing landscape. Some things are going to be exciting, some 845 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:34.559 things are challenging, but I think I'll always seeing it from the reframe of 846 00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:37.519 an opportunity and you stick to that last point, don't forget to recharge and 847 00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:39.840 roll model it. I think we can do a lot of great things that 848 00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:44.920 push the marketing industry forward. So thanks to everyone that anyone that listened. 849 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:49.880 For sure. How can people stay connected to the work you're doing? Plug 850 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:52.800 glowed a little bit. Just give us ways that we can stay connected. 851 00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:58.800 Yeah, absolutely. So linkedin definitely the place where I spend most of my 852 00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:04.199 time. To just look up Russelan, Trusla and T. hopefully you find 853 00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:07.599 me that way and yes, I'm VP marketing and gloat. Yeah, we're 854 00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:09.599 doing some amazing work. If you know, if especially larger organizations, is 855 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.519 kind of our sweet spot right now. We're working with some of the largest 856 00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.480 brands to really help them unlock the talent within those organizations, understand the skills 857 00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:21.440 and capabilities that exist today, where they need to build up skills and capabilities 858 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:24.880 moving forward, and then helping them dynamically match that jobs and work to be 859 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.199 done. So, whether you're launching an ice cream brand somewhere, I'm just 860 00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:34.079 asembling a team to do an event or hiring from within or finding mentors, 861 00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:37.519 etc. So, yeah, if anyone is in the market for a talent 862 00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:38.960 market place, absolutely reach out to me. But if anyone wants to chat 863 00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:44.239 marketing or exchange ideas, Linkedin is definitely best. Great and we'll make sure 864 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:47.440 we link to your linkedin in the show notes to so people can can jump 865 00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:52.440 over and also to gloat as well. Thanks for listening. TO BE TO BE GROWTH