Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth.
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It's time for another original research episode. James Dan, welcome in. I
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know a few weeks ago we had
talked about trends, specifically the most overrated
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trends in B two B. Today
we're gonna tackle beliefs and the beliefs and
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B two B marketing that we passionately
disagree with. It's gonna get spicy,
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so spicy. I think of the
differences between trends and beliefs like this.
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So I think beliefs are the way
people think of B Two B marketing broadly.
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So it's a habit of trust around
like what works and what doesn't.
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Examples of this would be like emotional
marketing, which will probably talk about today.
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That's bigger than a medium, but
it's something that we should be infusing,
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emotional marketing into anything we do.
Versus trends, you start to get
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pretty specific. So then we're talking
about a B M, email marketing,
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direct mail, and so that's it's
it's exact tactics and I'd say clearly your
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beliefs impact your strategy and what trends
you pay attention to. But in and
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of themselves beliefs may seem slightly less
tactical. So the exact question that we
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asked a hundred B Two b marketing
leaders was this. What's a commonly held
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belief in your industry that you passionately
disagree with? And this question actually is
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something that the three of us have
talked about recently. Dan, you came
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back with some spicy takes after being
gone for a few months and uh,
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let's talk about that first, because
it's been a discussion. You guys were
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just together in Dallas and and talking
about this in the last couple of weeks.
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So what is a commonly held belief
that you passionately disagree with? Dan,
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you go first here. You CAN'T
BE IN B two B marketing long
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without somebody just hating on B two
B for some reason, and it's not
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usually coming from the B two C
side. It's coming from B two B
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marketers ourselves. Like I hadn't been
to the job long when I heard B
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two B stands for boring. To
boring you're like what and honestly, and
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I've just kind of gone with it
for two years, like yeah, we
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need to be better, we need
to be more like B Two c.
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But honestly, when I think back
to even some of my earliest inspiration in
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marketing, it actually came from B
two B, because B two B can
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accomplish so much more than B two
C can, for a lot of different
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reasons. But let me break down
a few reasons why I'm actually starting to
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shift to be like B Two B
is greater than B two c. One
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of those just being you can spend
more time building relationships because you know who
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the account is, you know who
works there, you know it's Susie and
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adobe, and you can reach out
to her. She's probably like a CMO
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or marketing director, like. You
can actually send her a D M and
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actually have her on a podcast or
sent her a gift, like. You
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can actually afford to do more because
you can reach after fewer accounts. You
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can actually custom tailor at like and
actually do better marketing because you have way
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more data available. You can't do
that and B two C, and B
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two C you can just hope,
hope to spray, like pray and spray
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that it gets to the right people
and hope they come to you, and
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that's good. I like to build
demand too. You can do that and
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B two B and still reach after
the specific person. Like you can have
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so many more plays available, and
I love that. B Two B is
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also a little bit more educational focused. And in B two see they're very
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much about like the branding and emotions. But that's not necessarily a one up
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on B two C. all of
that plays in to be to be,
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because we all know we're talking to
people, and that's honestly some of the
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biggest insights we got from this report, saying that we're dealing with people,
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we can be just as creative to
be to see, and I'm like,
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Amen, let's do it. That's
I agree. But B two B also
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has major advantages that be two se
doesn't have. So for that reason,
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over the last couple of weeks I'm
like, Dang, I want the B
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Two b wagon. I need to
get a big old t shirt and a
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hat that just says B two B
and nothing else. And for those who
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know, they know, and for
those who don't didn't matter because they're not
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part of my crew. I love
what you said while we were at the
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conference last week, Dan. You
said you know B two B. It's
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like it's like really sitting at the
adult table and both you and I,
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Dan had experience. And B two
C, and it's freaking hard and you
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don't have the resources at your disposal
oftentimes that you do. And B Two
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B you're not selling higher ticket deals, so you can invest more. The
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deals are obviously more complex, they're
more buyers involved. It's not just a
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single decision maker like it typically is
in B two C. you've got to
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figure out how do you frame your
message so that it's attractive to the C
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I, oh, but also to
the CFO, because they've got to they've
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got to be engaged in the decision
making process for what you know, a
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particular product that you're selling. There's
complexity to it and as you were explaining
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it, you're like, you know, it's it's like sitting at the adult
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table, and that really resonated with
me and I think when you when you
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think about that added complexity, the
nuance that comes with B two B,
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it's an elevated view of B two
B as opposed to just looking at it
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like Oh, it's boring, to
Boring Ho Um, b twoc is so
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much cooler. It's, like you
also pointed out, you're like there are
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a lot of brands and B two
C are that are not sexy. Like
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we look at Tom Shoes and we
look at like the best examples. Yeah,
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like the best examples of B two
C, right, like AIRBNB and
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like all of these like iconic brands
that are B two C. But,
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like you were, like, I
just want to like go to the bottom
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shelf at a grocery store and be
like you see this bag of sugar,
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like that's B two C two,
and like that. That's actually the bulk
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of B two C and it's not
all sexy and interesting like the iconic B
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twoc brands are. But the iconic
B two B brands are really sexy too,
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and we're bringing sexy back, baby, we're bringing sexy back. A
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lot of the best marketers and B
two B came from B to C and
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it's because they freaking crushed it and
B two C. and what did they
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do? They started teaching other marketers. Are Selling what they learned to other
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companies and thereby made it up into
B two B. and that's why it's
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the adult tables, because usually they
killed it and B to see Bam,
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and now they're playing at a higher
level, which usually has freaking way better
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margins. You know, they're like, oh wait, I can make more
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money and B two B, Boom, they're at the level. Not that
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you know. B Two B companies
always charge a lot of money, but
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usually, you know, it's you're
usually dealing with higher, harder to hire
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margins. Yeah, yeah, so, okay. The question that we had
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asked all these these hundred marketers.
What's a commonly held belief that in your
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industry you passionately disagree with? So
let's jump into some findings, because I
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think this is so good. B
Two B over B two C. Yes,
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absolutely. What did the hundred marketers
say? So this first finding,
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I would I would sum it up
this way. Right, B two B
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marketers are frustrated with people thinking that
B Two b marketing is fundamentally different from
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B two C marketing. What's interesting
about this is right before we re press
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record, actually think we don't agree
with that in some ways, because,
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James, you actually did a great
job right there of outlining how B two
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B is slightly different from B to
c, whether it's the buying committee,
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there's all sorts of different ways.
Even the approach you would take in a
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B two C situation versus B two
B situation. In marketing there are nuances.
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So but we heard that a lot. That just that frustration. B
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Two B marketing isn't fundamentally different from
B to c. So it's more of
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an annoyance about this idea that brands
are marketing to businesses when the reality is
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that they're marketing to people, and
that I can get behind. So while
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it may not actually be like we're
we're kind of saying two separate things.
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They're right, but but I get
the hard of that and want for more
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human connection and that being the concern
of of a lot of marketers today in
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the B two B space. So
let me read some responses from the survey
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that reveal how several marketers feel about
this B two B verse B Two C
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situation. We heard, I disagree, that B two B prospects have different
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expectations from B two C prospects.
That's a big one. We could talk
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about that for a while because we
were like, Oh, this is good
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enough for B two be, but
they're not comparing you to other B two
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B companies. They're just comparing you
to all the ways they're being marketed to.
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Right. So there's a there's a
way of thinking there that we need
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to shift. I think everyone and
B Two b really thinks very much that
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B two B is kind of its
own animal, when it's actually very similar.
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That's kind of what we were saying
before. Another response. At the
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end of the day, B two
B marketers are people and they consume information
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and content and messaging the same way
all consumers do. You don't have to
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communicate to them differently. So you
guys are hearing sort of the same thing
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iterated over and over again. I
have probably seven eight of these examples pulled
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up here. That was probably our
our number one key finding from asking this
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question. What do you guys think
about that? That that fundamental frustration of
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the differences between B two B and
B two C, or the lack thereof.
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I think B two B is better
at content marketing. Like how many,
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how many art blogs, podcasts,
Youtube channels are put out there that
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you take from a company? On
B two C, Red Bull, I
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know people subscribe to it, but
it's kind of like, okay, I
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can think of a few, but
it's it's pretty rare. Like I'm I
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don't subscribe to any B two C. I know people do, but I
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think B two B kills it.
On B Two B marketing, I think
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the focus and B two B is
obviously education. It leans more education.
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You're you're dealing with decision makers and
companies that are trying to hone their craft
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and get better at their job and
accelerate their career and, you know,
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growing their responsibilities at work and and
so naturally, you know, I tend
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personally just to gravitate toward more helpful
content. I still like the occasional,
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like entertaining episode. I like watching
Mr Beasts do something really stupid. That
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why am I watching this guy like
bury himself alive for forty eight hours?
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I have no clue, but I
enjoy that too. But it's not actually
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helping me get better. And so
when I think about like, am I
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using my time purposefully, I oftentimes
feel like I am when I'm consuming content
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created by a B two B company
versus a BBC brand that's just trying to
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catch as many eyeballs as possible because
they have to reach everybody. They have
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to reach the masses because of the
nature of their business model, and so
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it can be very entertaining. I
would argue that it's a hell of a
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lot harder to create crazy, entertaining
content than it is to create super helpful
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content in a niche uh, and
I think you're seeing that and the fact
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that Mr Beast just keeps leveling up
the game. He's spending millions of dollars
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now on his youtube videos because it's
it's harder and harder to you're competing with
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Netflix, you're competing with all of
these media brands that have billions of dollars
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to invest in their content. Anyway, I'll give up my rant here,
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but that's what I'm thinking as I
as I hear you list of off Benji.
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Yeah, one of the other responses
we heard that I think falls into
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the same categories, like the tone
of Voice of B two B. Content
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doesn't have to be formal, and
I wanted to highlight that one for a
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second because I so agree and I
think we're seeing a pivot, especially in
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a lot of the companies we would
probably all name as the ones that we
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pay most attention to in the B
two B space, how they interact on
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Linkedin, the type of social content
they push out. There's this ability to
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like also infuse humor. You're still
looked at as you have people in your
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organization that reviewed as thought leaders and
they're still, you know, giving that
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educational content. But there was this
like buttoned up feeling that I got when
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I first came into B two B, where it was like, Oh,
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you gotta have everything in order and
you better like talk in a certain way
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and like that's, honestly, what
got the rep for me to be of
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like being stiff or being boring in
the first place, and we've come a
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long way from that. So I
think we're highlighting like that transformation that's taken
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place. That's been awesome to see. Yeah, and when you think about
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that, Benji right, it makes
sense that there would be a reticence,
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hesitancy to be more open in your
communication, to to let your hair down
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a bit, because the stakes are
higher. Right, you're selling a six
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figure deal to a CT O,
that matters more than when you're selling a
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six dollar pair of socks and you're
and you're the stance brand, like they
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can be a lot more loose with
what they're doing because the stakes are lower.
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So it makes sense how B two
B marketers got there. The stakes
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are much higher, the deal sizes
are bigger, you've got to make sure
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you don't piss off seventeen people instead
of just making sure that you know the
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thirty eight year old dad who's buying
the pair of socks isn't you know,
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likes what you're saying. You now
got to a piece more people. So
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I get how it's gotten there.
I'm glad to see the pendulum swinging back
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to say no, no, no, wait a minute, these are still
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humans and and they want to be
marketed to like they're being marketed to in
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other parts of their life. We
don't need to be so stiff and rigid,
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and I think you're seeing that from
a lot of the top brands and
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B Two b today. One of
my early inspirations about over ten years ago
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was mail chip. Remember, if
you remember, like mail chip actually used
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to be more fun than it is
now. It's become way more formal,
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but man, back in it was
fun. It had a freaking huge monkey
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on the website right, and now
it's just reduced to the logo. But
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like they had these fun guides.
They were designed. They're putting out coloring
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books with mail chimps in it,
and it was just the email marketing software.
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All the rest of them were boring. There is one place in the
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UI where it's like you could measure, like how big your email was and
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if it got too big, like
a monkey's arm with the finger was kind
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of stretching, stretching, stretch,
and then it would break and like blood
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out, like too far, too
fun. I'm like it's that kind of
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stuff and it B two B tool
or yeah, it selling. They're selling
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B two B and being used by
marketers that like it can be fun,
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because we're all people having fun or
doing work. I think you can add
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some delight into it. Now I'm
seeing stuff like that all the time,
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like Asana has like a little unicorn
shoot out of the screen. Ever you
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complete a task and you're like,
why not have the Unicorn shoot out of
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the screen, like it's a part
of product, could be part of marketing,
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and I'm glad that mail SHIMP's had
a heavy influence on this kind of
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stuff. And now here we are, like twelve years later, and sweet
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fish is trying to be like the
opinion epitome of this too, since we're
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named after candy. Essentially, we're
trying. We're over here trying B two
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B growth. Will be right back, Dan is. You looked over these
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findings. What else really stood out
to you, man? So something a
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lot of marketers are still talking about, and this has been an ongoing conversation
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for years now, is around sales
and marketing alignment, right, and that
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kind of makes sense to me why
people are still talking about it. Like
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sales not getting marketing, marketing not
getting sales, there being a misunderstanding of
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WHO's who's risk possible, for what? Is Marketing's job just to serve sales
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with leads? Is Marketing job over
once the lead goes to sales? Like
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all these different things, and it
makes sense because there's different skill sets at
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play, different ways of viewing the
world. What is true, what is
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good, what is what is beautiful? Right, they just have a different
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perception of reality, but at the
same time they have to learn to work
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together to accomplish the end objective of
increasing revenue. So I've always thought about
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it of like marketing doing a handoff
but still serving it all the way through,
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and a lot of marketers are feeling
similarly. Like the lead, a
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lot a lot of people mentioned,
like marketing isn't done once the lead comes
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in the door. The one set
to sales specifically, but there's still a
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lot of misconception around what the relationships
should look like. So conversations are still
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being had and it's still a big
misconception in B two B. It's interesting
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because I'm I think, with all
the work we've done to like unify sales
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and marketing and like have this revenue
umbrella and and as I talk on B
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two B growth, interview episodes with
those outside of sweet fish and just like
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what are you doing to unify because
it's such a hot bun issue, like
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on Linkedin, there's all like there's
a constant conversation around it. I think
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we're starting to see a way forward
and a lot of that does come down
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to just like what are recurring conversations
we can have in questions we can be
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asking of each of those kind of
the sales function and the marketing function.
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That just calls us back, like
you said, Dan, two revenue,
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but calls us back into some some
unifying like this is how these handoffs worker,
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this is and like the more that
that just becomes a well oiled machine.
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Yeah, I mean it's clearly better
for the organization. It's funny that
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we've ever thought of sales and marketing
so opposed to each other or so so
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at friction with each other, because
if you don't have both, you you're
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kind of screwed. So I think
that's a that's a big time one.
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Yeah, anything you want to add
to that, James, because the revenue
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team is a bit big for us. Yeah, yeah, I think unifying
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our sales and marketing team to the
revenue umbrella has has been huge, I
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think partly because I am a marketing
driven CEO. So having hosted B two
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B growth for a good jillion episodes
getting the company off the ground and like
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just trying to talk to as many
B two B marketers as I can,
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and naturally I think I lean more
towards understanding the value of marketing and so
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in the way we have set up
our budgets, like we have a larger
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marketing team than we do a sales
team. So we have a very different
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vibe here at sweet fish and and
I think a much deeper respect for marketing
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at sweet fish than a lot of
other organs do. But having having the
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sales and marketing team, we need
to do a better job of this,
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honestly. But creating more I'm not
going to say the word synergy here,
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creating more experiences where both are,
you know, our podcast strategists are what
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we call our sales team and the
folks on our marketing team are interacting and
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talking together. Like one of the
rocks that we had, our quarterly rocks
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for Emily on our marketing team was
to have several conversations with our sales team,
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with our account management team and with
our producers are, you know,
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client facing folks on the on the
ground that are working on shows day to
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day. We're having her talk to
them to figure out, like, what
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are some insights we can pull from
what you're actually experiencing? Our sales team,
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like what what are you experiencing?
What are the conversations that you're having
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on the ground that we can learn
from? UH, in marketing, we
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we just weren't that that wasn't happening
naturally and so we made it a rock
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to try to break down that barrier
and have some more of that free flowing
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conversation. We're going to try to
structure our team meetings. I've been working
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with Katill on our team to get
something scheduled so that we can have both
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teams on a call for an hour
every other week talking through some of the
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challenges that we're both facing, because
there's just a lot more opportunities, whenever
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we create that shared space, to
be able to talk through the issues together,
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as opposed to fighting them in silos
like like I think most organizations do.
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One of the things, Benji,
that I wanted to get to on
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this was, you know, we're
talking through these insights and what we found
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from this research, but you know, one of the most helpful parts of
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these episodes, I think, is
when we get to the actual recommendations and
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like what do we think brands should
be doing as a result of kind of
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what we're uncovering in this research?
And one of the things that struck me
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was it feels a little bit Buzzworthy, but I think we've gotta if you're
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not already doing this, if you're
not a progressive brand that's kind of on
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on the edge, and there's a
lot of brands that I think are already
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doing this, but if you're not, you need to start approaching your marketing
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uh in an emotional and human centered
way. I think human centered. You
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know, our friends at bomb bomb
wrote a book human centered communication, and
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you hear that talked about a lot, but I think the more we can
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approach marketing and this human centered,
more emotional way, I think the better
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your marketing is going to resonate with
your buyers. And so in question ten
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of this survey, most marketers claimed
that being human is the most underrated marketing
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tactic. So when we asked about, you know, what's the most underrated
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marketing tactic, they said being human
was that tactic, which thought was really
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interesting. And then in question for
marketers are interested, we found out that
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marketers are interested in human behavior and
psychology. So marketing to decision makers in
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business is not that different from marketing
to consumers. There are actually a few
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different ways that we've tried to do
this as sweet fish, to bring more
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humanity by understanding psychology and understanding these
different things, like how do we bring
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that humanity into what we're doing?
And so, obviously podcasting. You know,
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premise development in in the podcasting process
allows you to develop a hook that's
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actually gonna make somebody want to listen
to your show. There it's not just
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another interview based show. There's a
compelling hook. Your P O v is
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injected into that that premise and somebody's
gonna look and go, uh, that's
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interesting, like they're on a journey
to do this or that's like my favorite,
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you know, show that's outside of
B Two b land, like what
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are they doing to to mimic that
style of that show over here in this
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show about marketing? So premise development
is a is a huge way to inject
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more of that humanity, just being
more thoughtful about how we come up with
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the hooks for for our shows.
Community groups or something we've tried to do
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with marketing squads or getting people into
smaller groups so that they can actually connect
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with one another. You've got folks
like pavilion uh that do a fantastic job
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of facilitating community. Peak community is
another one. D G MG, which
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is now exit five, a lot
of folks that are trying to build community.
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I think it taps into that.
That's it's a more human centered way
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to do marketing. Um, we
tried to take it to the next level
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by putting people into more intimate small
groups. And then social media. The
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way we do social is different.
We're posting uh comic strips as UH carousels
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on Linkedin. Um, we're publishing
kids books and talking about them on social
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dance got a kid's book another his
second Kid's book is coming out in the
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next few months. And so the
way we do social it's it's gifts,
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but it's also super helpful videos.
It's both things. I don't think pigeonholing
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in into one like it's gotta be
one type. It can only be helpful.
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I think the reason I'm resonating with
so much of our fine labs content
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now is because Todd Klasser is taking
the points of the really smart points of
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view of Chris Walker, their CEO, and he's doing funny series like infusing
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those p O v s into a
fresh way of doing B Two b social
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content. And then the email.
You know, we we really like using
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videos. We use bomb bomb uh
here at sweet ish to send video email
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to inject more of that humanity when
you can see somebody's face communicating messages,
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just opposed to you know, written
text. I've seen the value of that,
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especially as we've done more video on
Linkedin. Even just going to podcast
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movement. Three or four months after
starting to go heavier with linkedin video,
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you start to see that like Oh, people actually like recognize me at this
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conference now because they've been seeing my
face in their linkedin feed for three or
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four months. It's it's pretty wild
to actually experience it. But when I
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think about seeing, you know,
Alex for Mosey or Gary V, when
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I like when I the first time
I saw Gary V in real life,
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it just it felt like this out
of like out of world experience. It
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was like, Oh my God,
this is a real guy, and I
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would have thought that about, you
know, Jennifer Aniston back in the days
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when friends was was big on TV. It's like you think of these folks
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that are now business content creators as
celebrities like we do one of the stars
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of friends, because we're now consuming
content in our feed, not on the
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couch in front of a TV like
when I did when I was growing up,
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and we now get to be the
star of the show. If we
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have a thoughtful content strategy that allows
us to do what we're doing here today
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right creating long form content. That
thing gets chopped up into into short form
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content. It's humanizing us. It's
not just me, it's Dan, it's
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Benji, it's a variety of folks
on our team that are putting out this
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kind of content and it's helping the
brand overall. Yep, I think what's
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interesting on that one too, and
Dan, I wanted to commend you for
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something, is when you think of
that like emotional, human centered way of
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doing marketing and just connecting with people, like your use of bomb bomb was
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really strategic for me. Well,
you're like, okay, it's one thing
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if I post like, let's say, a micro video or if I have
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an opinion and now people see my
p O v on Linkedin. It's another
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thing if someone like comments on that
and I respond with like a video.
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You know what I mean? Like
because now it's okay, I know this
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person exists and they're creating content,
this person actually cares about me and there's
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a back and forth that's happening in
a different way. When did that kind
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of click for you? I mean, I started doing it just because it
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was easier, because you want to
leave long responses, but typing it all
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out, I'm not. I'm already
not like the greatest like writer. I'm
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okay writing marketing copy, but just
giving long explanations and things. I'm like,
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I'm just gonna record a quick video
and shoot it over, and what
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I found is that it would blow
people's minds are like, oh my gosh,
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you took the time to make this
for me and you're like, I'm
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lazy. And of course you can
communicate way more in video too. So
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it's like it felt like it packed
way more punched than I expected it to,
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and once I started getting a feeling
of like how much it impacted people,
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I'm like this is a freaking secret
weapon and I still do it and
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it still blows people's minds. Now
I think more people are catching on because
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I'm getting more video responses back in
response to my videos, but it still
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works remarkably well. Yeah, there's
something to be said for just the power
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of video like across the board,
because you could think that you've even on
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your website, you've answered all the
questions that someone might have and now they
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can go and they can read about
it. But even just infusing somebody's face
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on the website to give an answer
to a question, it's such a personal
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touch that can it just change the
way that you do marketing and it puts
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a face to everything, which again
like the power of that in good communication
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and like it's just I don't sleep
on it. Like anywhere you can use
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video I would be thinking about using
video because it's it's such a good personal
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touch. Dan, when you're thinking
of recommendations based on what we found off
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this question. What what would be
sort of the thing you'd be thinking about
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here, I mean other than going
to video, and I'm specifically thinking about
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how to make B two B growth
more video oriented in the future. But
395
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switching from audio production environmental videos a
little bit of a lift. So we're
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still trying to figure that out.
So, if I were a company,
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I'm trying to sneak video into everything, into the landing page, into the
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thank you page and to the emails, into text messages, like the more
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place I can put my face or
the face of my teammates the better.
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Hence, on not even on our
own website, like we have like a
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bunch of our teammates pictures instead of
stock photos everywhere. It just makes it
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more human, right, writing in
friendly ways and I always when I write
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copy, I try to write to
a specific individual that would be in that
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market, right. So that's an
easy way to make things more human.
405
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And just thinking through if you were
experiencing this, what would you want to
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see? What would you want to
read? How would you want to be
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treated in this marketing sequence, in
this email, in this social post,
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be the type of marketer that you
would want being market marketed to you,
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right, or do the type marketing
you'd want pushed on you? Um,
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and I think it just goes along
way. Yeah, I think for for
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me, like this is a such
a good question to go. Where are
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we assuming things? Whenever you think
of beliefs, like just to call us
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back to the beginning, like what
commonly help belief in your industry you passionately
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00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.000
disagree with? To me, it's
like, what are the beliefs that I
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00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.000
hold right now that I don't even
realize are running things like assumptions being the
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mother of mistakes, like this is
something I think doesn't work. This is
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something I see other people doing and
like I don't ask questions about them,
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just like I would never do that, instead of like being curious, and
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the best marketers to me are curious, and so like, where are there
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things that I'm like why do they
do it that way, instead of just
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like from from the other side watching
it, like who can I ask does
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that work? What did you learn
from trying that? And even on the
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00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.599
video side there's people that are ahead
of us in the game right, like
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who should we be talking to that
could lead us to being better in our
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00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.240
strategy around video or any other things
we've talked about today? To me,
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00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.880
it's just like checking myself and going, okay, what are those internal beliefs
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that, as a marketer, I've
been assuming certain things that that I could
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00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:49.720
change my mind on, and as
I do that, I think like it
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00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.319
just makes us better at what we
do. Anything else you guys want to
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00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:59.200
throw in? Is there a belief
that maybe you're challenged today to like change
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00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.720
or shift because of this conversation?
I'd love to just hear what you guys
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00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:06.519
have to say before we kind of
wrap this. James, anything for you?
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00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:11.160
Yeah, I don't know that there's
anything necessarily from this. That has
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00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.240
been like a massive, you know, unlock for me. But I think
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00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.920
one of our core beliefs and and
as we've gone through like Pov Development for
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00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.680
ourselves and we've asked ourselves this question
and we've ultimately landed on this idea of
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00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:29.160
affinity over awareness. I think so
much of what we found here, particularly
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00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.640
with like the human centered, like
marketers now know like being human centered and
439
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:40.400
like being more human and in your
marketing is actually a very underrated tactic and
440
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:47.359
it's it's something that that should be
considered. I think that that reinforces the
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00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:51.400
belief that we've been talking about a
lot, which is affinity matters a lot
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00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:55.480
more than awareness. Like, yes, you want to go get more awareness,
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00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.319
but you want to go get more
awareness for something that people are actually
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00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.160
going to and want to engage with, and I think just going and chasing
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00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:07.279
more awareness, which we see a
lot of B two B brands doing,
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00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:12.559
without first having something of substance that
people actually want to consume, you're just
447
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:17.400
wasting a whole lot of dollars.
And so I think first you've got to
448
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.759
focus on affinity and then you focus
on going and finding you know, a
449
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.880
lot even as we've we've we've talked
about some growth tactics for B to be
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00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.240
growth. It's like we wanted to
get into a rhythm with this new short
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00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.279
show format and doing some other things
that we want to do with the episodes
452
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.839
of B two B growth. We
want to get that in place first so
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00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:41.599
that when we start using some programmatic
advertising and we start doing some show swaps
454
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.160
to get B to be growth in
front of a larger audience. We want
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00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.640
people to come back to be to
be growth and go man, this is
456
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:55.160
this is a refreshingly different show.
This isn't just another interview marketing show like
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00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:59.960
every other interview based marketing show that
I listened to. It's actually different where
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00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.759
we're hearing people, you know,
we're hearing this particular team and sweet fish
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00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.559
talk about their points of view and
their thoughts and and they still mix in,
460
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.599
you know, some some conversations with
outside people, but they do it
461
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.039
in a refreshingly different way, and
so that's that's what I mean by we
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00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:18.039
have to focus on affinity first,
then we go out and get awareness.
463
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.039
That's good. Well, I love
having these types of conversations with you guys.
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00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.200
Original research has been so helpful for
us to just see, man,
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00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.079
what do a hundred B Two b
marketing leaders think on on something like this,
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00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.839
and how often do we even address
like, where are the commonly held
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00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.839
beliefs in the industry? That I'm
like out on? Like, I love
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00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:42.640
hearing people's responses. And if you
haven't listened to the five previous episodes before
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00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.319
this one, we go back in
the feed. You can find those now
470
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.880
and and take take a listen.
We're always trying to help fuel your growth
471
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.680
and your innovation. So if you
haven't yet followed the PODCAST, be sure
472
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.119
to do that on whatever your favorite
podcast platform is, and then you can
473
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:01.440
connect with Dan James and myself over
on Linkedin. We're talking about marketing and
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00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.599
business all the time and we'd love
to chat with you. Keep doing work
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00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:22.079
that matters. We'll be back real
soon with another episode. We're always excited
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00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.799
to have conversations with leaders on the
front lines of marketing. If there's a
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00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:29.559
marketing director or a chief marketing officer
that you think we need to have on
478
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:34.160
the show, reach out email me, Benji dot block at Sweet Fish Media
479
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.400
Dot Com. I look forward to
hearing from you.