What B2B Marketers Can Learn From B2C Podcasters

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:08.460 welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm dan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and 3 00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:13.390 today I'm joined by jeremy Underberg, who is the managing editor and podcast 4 00:00:13.390 --> 00:00:18.670 producer for the Art of manliness, Jeremy, How are you doing today? I'm 5 00:00:18.670 --> 00:00:24.260 doing well. Thanks dan yourself. I'm doing great and I'm super. I'm just 6 00:00:24.260 --> 00:00:28.930 stoked to have this interview because oftentimes we're interviewing, you know, 7 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:32.689 in house B two B marketers and that's fantastic and there's a lot we can 8 00:00:32.689 --> 00:00:36.070 learn from each other in our own space. But every once in a while I like to go 9 00:00:36.080 --> 00:00:42.100 outside of What the sweet spot is for us. Right? Sometimes it's nice to take 10 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:45.710 a peek at what other people are doing in different industries and different 11 00:00:45.710 --> 00:00:51.320 sectors. In this case we're looking at a B2C podcast um from a really well 12 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:55.300 known podcast and I'm going to be interviewing jeremy to see if I can 13 00:00:55.300 --> 00:00:59.750 extract any lessons of what we, as B two B podcasters out there or B two B 14 00:00:59.750 --> 00:01:05.910 Marketers can learn from the B two C. Podcast space. So the art of manliness 15 00:01:05.910 --> 00:01:10.580 is a really well known brand. If you haven't heard of it, then, I mean, I'd 16 00:01:10.580 --> 00:01:13.350 be surprised if you haven't heard of it. I'm sure it's probably a few, a small 17 00:01:13.350 --> 00:01:17.250 percentage that haven't heard of this, this very popular blog as well as 18 00:01:17.250 --> 00:01:21.130 podcast. And I believe he wrote a book a number of years ago. Right? That that 19 00:01:21.130 --> 00:01:27.010 did fairly well. This has been a very popular online I guess you can call it 20 00:01:27.010 --> 00:01:32.790 like a like a it's beyond a blog. It's like an online publication. Yeah, sort 21 00:01:32.790 --> 00:01:40.130 of a lifestyle platform I suppose. Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to ask you and 22 00:01:40.130 --> 00:01:42.900 start with that. And jeremy like give me some background just for the 23 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:46.890 listeners who haven't heard of this, this brand before. What is it about a 24 00:01:46.890 --> 00:01:52.030 little bit of how it started? And when you joined the team to work on the art 25 00:01:52.030 --> 00:01:56.340 of manliness? Sure, yeah. Happy to share that story. So the website Art of 26 00:01:56.340 --> 00:02:01.460 manliness dot com was started back in 2000 and eight by my editor in chief 27 00:02:01.460 --> 00:02:07.100 and the founder, Brett McKay. So the genesis was that he was at a Borders 28 00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:12.660 bookstore browsing the men's magazines and just generally annoyed by the state 29 00:02:12.670 --> 00:02:17.280 of the content in those magazines. Right? So it was, you know, six pack 30 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:22.650 abs How to score a girl for the weekend, you know, hot new cars that cost six 31 00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:26.850 figures, et cetera. And he was thinking about what, what's the kind of magazine 32 00:02:26.850 --> 00:02:30.540 that my grandpa would read? That would be something that I would sort of like, 33 00:02:30.540 --> 00:02:35.310 Right. He was, he was sort of feeling nostalgic for like old school men's 34 00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:40.380 magazine content. And so started up art of manliness dot com. The very first 35 00:02:40.380 --> 00:02:44.420 article was How to shave like your grandfather, which was shaving with a 36 00:02:44.420 --> 00:02:47.810 safety razor. I don't know if you've ever done that, but it's kind of a fun 37 00:02:47.820 --> 00:02:52.460 old school experience and it kind of took off. So it in the early, you know, 38 00:02:52.470 --> 00:02:56.260 sort of the Wild West days of the internet back in 2000 and 8, 2000 and 39 00:02:56.260 --> 00:03:01.030 nine hit, you know, the front page of digg or, or stumble upon something like 40 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:06.410 that and took off. And so he made a career of that And then added in the 41 00:03:06.410 --> 00:03:13.510 podcast, I think 2009 was actually the very first episode. So really early on 42 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:17.480 in the world of podcasting took advantage of that. The first little 43 00:03:17.490 --> 00:03:25.170 rise in podcast listening for both 30, maybe 50 episodes, something like that, 44 00:03:25.170 --> 00:03:29.690 I'm not sure on the exact number, but then podcasting sort of took a dip 45 00:03:29.690 --> 00:03:34.310 right where you were involved in that early stage, right? So a little bit, 46 00:03:34.570 --> 00:03:39.420 that's why didn't you? I think that predates me and so I've been at it, 47 00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:43.340 I've been on the team for eight plus years. So yeah, so those, those early 48 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:48.420 episodes would have predated me a little bit. So, uh, yeah, now that I 49 00:03:48.430 --> 00:03:53.380 think remembering it correctly here, those were before me At least at least 50 00:03:53.380 --> 00:04:00.350 for the most part. So I came on a part time in mid-2011 or so, so I think we 51 00:04:00.350 --> 00:04:04.950 had already taken the break by then and then just right at the beginning of the, 52 00:04:05.540 --> 00:04:11.520 this podcast boom that we're in now, this would have been What, or so. I 53 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:16.050 think When we started back up again, kind of just started right from where 54 00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:21.329 we left off, and now we're up to consistently two episodes a week. We 55 00:04:21.329 --> 00:04:28.710 just cracked episode 700. So as, as managing editor for the blog, I do a 56 00:04:28.710 --> 00:04:33.030 lot of writing and editing um and kind of work with advertisers a little bit. 57 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:37.500 And for the podcast, I do kind of everything behind the scenes. So I'm 58 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:42.300 booking and scheduling our guests. I'm doing um sound checks and interview 59 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:46.830 prep. I'm working with our advertisers. I'm getting the episode from our 60 00:04:46.830 --> 00:04:51.080 freelance editors, stuff like that. So basically, the only thing I'm not doing 61 00:04:51.080 --> 00:04:56.630 for the podcast is is hosting the show and asking the questions, otherwise I'm 62 00:04:56.630 --> 00:04:59.850 kind of doing the rest. Yeah, you're kind of the man behind the curtain, 63 00:04:59.850 --> 00:05:05.310 getting things done. Remember remember when I first found the art of manliness, 64 00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:08.900 man, it was probably back in, but somewhere between 2000 and 2010, I 65 00:05:08.900 --> 00:05:13.080 remember seeing it for the first time and loving loving the brand because I'd 66 00:05:13.080 --> 00:05:17.280 also like, I've grown up, my dad had a subscription to like, men's health or 67 00:05:17.280 --> 00:05:20.290 something like that. It's just kind of, it's just not it's not a really 68 00:05:20.290 --> 00:05:22.800 appealing magazine. It is at first because you're like, yeah, six pack, 69 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.120 but it's like, their content is kind of like around six packs and how to get 70 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:29.430 girls. And I'm like, there's more to being a man than this, right? And so 71 00:05:29.430 --> 00:05:33.310 that content was really just fantastic. You're going back to like, how do you 72 00:05:33.310 --> 00:05:36.860 be a gentleman as well as you know how to shoot a gun and well, the knife or 73 00:05:36.860 --> 00:05:40.160 something like that, it's kind of like that style of manliness. It's very even 74 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:44.230 the graphics on the block were very like, like Sherlock Holmes, you know 75 00:05:44.230 --> 00:05:49.300 those old school nash and drawing boxing gloves? But like think of like 76 00:05:49.300 --> 00:05:54.990 boxer with a moustache, like that kind of thing. Yes, the pretty sure the logo, 77 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.950 right, is the moustache man with the gloves on? Yes. So that that logo is 78 00:05:58.950 --> 00:06:03.670 actually based on john Sullivan who was an old, bare knuckle boxer back in the 79 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:08.360 early 19 hundreds, and that's pretty much his exact profile. Is that, you 80 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:13.600 know, knuckles up moustache? Yeah, bare, bare chested. Yeah, yep. So I remember 81 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:18.560 seeing that as a young man and being inspired to go at least deep into that, 82 00:06:18.940 --> 00:06:23.590 that a character of manliness was fun. Yeah. Been interesting to hear that you 83 00:06:23.590 --> 00:06:28.370 guys took a break? Why was why did you take a break from podcasting? Sure. So 84 00:06:28.370 --> 00:06:32.180 from what I know, you know, it started where it was sort of just a side 85 00:06:32.180 --> 00:06:37.720 project, there was no revenue coming in for. We had no advertisers. It was just 86 00:06:37.730 --> 00:06:43.680 sort of another thing we were trying. Right. So I got to a point where, you 87 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.300 know, podcast obviously as you know, are a lot of work. Once you really get 88 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:50.820 into the weeds of it, there's, there's editing, there's prep, there's all 89 00:06:50.820 --> 00:06:54.830 kinds of stuff scheduling guests if you're an interview style show like we 90 00:06:54.830 --> 00:07:00.300 are and we're and so early on there's wasn't enough our ally to to justify 91 00:07:00.300 --> 00:07:06.520 the effort and there was just way more value and return in the text content at 92 00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:11.140 that point in time. And so we took the break and then we jumped back in as 93 00:07:11.140 --> 00:07:16.890 soon as we realized that there actually could be real return and value and 94 00:07:16.890 --> 00:07:21.030 doing the podcast. And we've had advertisers since, ever since we 95 00:07:21.030 --> 00:07:26.670 started back up again. Now we work with mineral as our ad partners and they 96 00:07:26.670 --> 00:07:31.870 kind of handle all of that and it's been a good relationship nice. So it 97 00:07:31.870 --> 00:07:36.510 kind of made sense. I remember seeing and I was an early adopter of podcast 98 00:07:36.510 --> 00:07:40.410 back when you had like the little, everyone had ipods and you had the 99 00:07:40.410 --> 00:07:44.970 little swivel dial. I was listening to podcast back then and there weren't 100 00:07:44.970 --> 00:07:48.530 many. There was, I don't know, I think my favorite business one was called 101 00:07:48.530 --> 00:07:53.210 manager tools was a fantastic one early still going. Um, and then pod runner, 102 00:07:53.210 --> 00:07:56.150 which had like running music on, it was kind of like the first few I had and 103 00:07:56.150 --> 00:07:59.850 the art of manliness was definitely there in the beginning, but then I 104 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:03.280 guess podcasting tied down. I know I was still listening through that time 105 00:08:03.280 --> 00:08:06.460 period because it's just super convenient. It's very convenient medium. 106 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.060 Um but obviously like when the iphone started becoming super popular and the 107 00:08:11.070 --> 00:08:16.990 Apple finally added a podcast app to the iphone like started really jumping 108 00:08:16.990 --> 00:08:21.250 back up. So it made it made it accessible, it made it easy again to do 109 00:08:21.250 --> 00:08:24.430 it before it was kind of a pain you had to go through itunes find the show 110 00:08:24.430 --> 00:08:27.970 downloaded and then sinking up to your device which was difficult for most 111 00:08:27.970 --> 00:08:32.890 people. But even 2013 would have been early. Most people talk about like the 112 00:08:32.890 --> 00:08:37.460 resurgence of podcasting being like 2015 through To present day, right? 113 00:08:37.460 --> 00:08:42.880 This is when BTB growth actually started in 2015 and is considered early 114 00:08:42.890 --> 00:08:48.860 in the second wave of podcasting. Um so 2013 has been going a long time. Yeah 115 00:08:48.870 --> 00:08:54.170 and you know part of it is so Brett my editor in chief and boss, he loves 116 00:08:54.180 --> 00:08:58.840 interviewing people and he loves reading. So you know, the the format of 117 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:03.440 our show is generally we interview and author about a book they've written. It 118 00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:08.340 provides an easy format for us, right? And bread just really enjoys it. And so 119 00:09:08.340 --> 00:09:12.590 he started up again, yeah, really early on in the art of manliness has always 120 00:09:12.590 --> 00:09:18.820 had a really loyal audience and loyal following. So we were hitting, you know, 121 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:24.470 six digit per month download figures pretty early on. Um, and then have just 122 00:09:24.470 --> 00:09:29.540 kind of steadily, steadily grown from there. So something that I'd be curious 123 00:09:29.540 --> 00:09:34.520 about is um how do you guys plan your content? How do you discover what 124 00:09:34.520 --> 00:09:38.500 people actually want to read that still stays within still stays true to the 125 00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:43.280 brand, but still is finding new things that people want to learn and grow, 126 00:09:43.290 --> 00:09:46.800 grow in their knowledge about? Yeah, that's a great question. And that's 127 00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:52.890 truly the hardest part of, you know, two episodes a week every single week. 128 00:09:52.890 --> 00:09:56.810 You know, it's about 100 shows a year. And we got to find fresh content for 129 00:09:56.810 --> 00:10:00.290 all of it. So one of the one of the big things that already manliness prides 130 00:10:00.290 --> 00:10:04.540 herself on is just the variety of content. So we make sure we are 131 00:10:04.540 --> 00:10:10.720 covering all of our basically all of our blog categories in podcast form, so 132 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:17.460 there's philosophy, there's history, fitness style, even self improvement. 133 00:10:18.140 --> 00:10:23.290 So we want to run the gamut, we don't want to be to pigeon holed, which I 134 00:10:23.290 --> 00:10:27.760 know it's sort of runs counter to some of the advice that you'll see today is 135 00:10:27.760 --> 00:10:32.350 right, get super niche into your audience to kind of stick with it. But 136 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:38.150 our our brand has always been really broad, so we want to cover everything. 137 00:10:38.150 --> 00:10:43.850 So in any given month we're planning out where can we get the most variety? 138 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:49.760 Really. So, you know, we are, we don't want to do like to fitness shows in 139 00:10:49.760 --> 00:10:54.460 back to back weeks, we don't want to have stuff that's uh too close together 140 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.590 in topic for our listeners, because we know that not all of our listeners are 141 00:10:58.590 --> 00:11:03.130 listening to every episode, right? So we want to be able to To give all of 142 00:11:03.130 --> 00:11:08.090 our listeners something to listen to in any given, you know, 2-4 week period of 143 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:12.610 time. So, really, what happens is, you know, we're at a point now where 144 00:11:12.610 --> 00:11:17.510 publishers send me oodles of books and tons of content. I'm getting pr pitches 145 00:11:17.510 --> 00:11:23.080 from everywhere, Right? And so one of my jobs is to mind through all of that 146 00:11:23.090 --> 00:11:28.300 and figure out one what fits with our brand. And two does it sort of fit into 147 00:11:28.300 --> 00:11:32.930 the publishing calendar at this point in time? So that, you know, the hard 148 00:11:32.930 --> 00:11:37.350 part is figuring out what lines up with the brand. That's something that, you 149 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:41.650 know, has taken us a number of years to figure out. And is one of the hard 150 00:11:41.650 --> 00:11:47.660 things for any brand out there. But we, we have it nailed down to where we're 151 00:11:47.660 --> 00:11:52.080 doing things that are one evergreen. So they'll stay relevant forever. 152 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:56.490 Basically. We get a ton of archive. Listens for our episodes, we don't get 153 00:11:56.490 --> 00:12:00.000 too much into current events or politics. We stay away from that as 154 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:05.120 much as we can. And uh to you know, that we like to do things that are at 155 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:10.770 least somewhat practical for like the average guy. So even even in a history 156 00:12:10.780 --> 00:12:14.140 interview, you know, we'll end it with, you know, what, what can like the 157 00:12:14.150 --> 00:12:18.760 modern average joe learn from this event or this person from history? So 158 00:12:18.760 --> 00:12:25.160 that's kind of the go to, you know, we like to know that our our overall sort 159 00:12:25.160 --> 00:12:31.320 of goal is to help men grow up and live well. So if if we can align something 160 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.850 with that with that question, right, How does this episode to help a man 161 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.730 grow up? Well, even if it is, you know, if he if he's in his thirties, forties, 162 00:12:39.730 --> 00:12:44.820 fifties, if we can answer that question, then uh then we're on Brandon and good 163 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:50.610 to go, hi dan Sanchez here with a quick break from this episode, sponsor 164 00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:54.900 Vidyard. If you haven't started using personal video yet to enhance your 165 00:12:54.900 --> 00:13:00.080 marketing campaigns, you're missing out having the ability to quickly capture 166 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.980 video and record my computer screen or both helps me not only create marketing 167 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:09.920 assets faster, it makes them way more personable. I use personal videos in 168 00:13:09.920 --> 00:13:14.450 social media, email, blast landing pages and even on our website, Vidyard 169 00:13:14.450 --> 00:13:19.860 makes it easy to record host in bed and share videos to more deeply engaged 170 00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:24.640 with your ideal buyers prospects have told me repeatedly that they are blown 171 00:13:24.640 --> 00:13:30.460 away every time they get one for me. So sign up for Vidyard free today by going 172 00:13:30.460 --> 00:13:35.320 to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth and just like you guys, the team at Vidyard 173 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.650 can't keep up with all these promo codes on podcast, so they are making 174 00:13:39.650 --> 00:13:44.590 signing up as easy as possible, so no promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard 175 00:13:44.590 --> 00:13:49.670 dot com slash GDP growth. So start using vidyard completely free and as a 176 00:13:49.670 --> 00:13:55.930 bonus, get their 2021 B two B video trans guide. So essentially what I hear 177 00:13:55.930 --> 00:13:59.100 you saying is that you kind of work backwards from that mission and you 178 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:03.170 worked backwards from that mission into a number of different categories. And 179 00:14:03.170 --> 00:14:05.700 then you make sure you hit all those different categories and make sure they 180 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:10.110 all stay aligned to the mission of helping men grow up well, right in a 181 00:14:10.110 --> 00:14:17.000 day and age where men tend to delay growing up, right? And uh extend 182 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:21.250 adolescence, right? You're fighting against that movement. Yeah, it's a 183 00:14:21.250 --> 00:14:25.250 great way to put it. Yeah. So it's kind of interesting work backwards from your 184 00:14:25.640 --> 00:14:29.980 mission. Uh come up with a couple of great categories and then make sure 185 00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:33.060 you're hitting those categories regularly. Now, I'm looking at your 186 00:14:33.060 --> 00:14:36.840 podcast right now, opened up on my Mac app and there's no way to currently 187 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:41.300 does. Like, it sucks that you can't create categories within a podcast, 188 00:14:41.300 --> 00:14:46.570 right? Um I know I've experimented with having like hashtags and the categories, 189 00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:50.480 but then you're like at least an iphone that gets deprecating after a short 190 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.620 while and then you're like, oh, but then people don't get to see the 191 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:56.220 headline that they should. So I've gone back and forth on how to do that. How 192 00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:59.670 do you kind of keep it organized in your feed or do you just kind of like, 193 00:14:59.680 --> 00:15:03.270 no, no, you're keeping it balanced and not have to worry about designating 194 00:15:03.270 --> 00:15:08.030 categories within a podcast. Sure. So what we're actually doing is just like 195 00:15:08.030 --> 00:15:11.860 looking at a, you know, a google calendar on a month by month basis and 196 00:15:11.860 --> 00:15:16.660 scheduling it out here. The episodes we published monday Wednesday each week 197 00:15:17.140 --> 00:15:23.700 And we planted out roughly 3-5 weeks in advance. And so we know that, you know, 198 00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:27.370 once it's, it's on that publishing calendar, it's pretty set in stone and 199 00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:31.270 once that happens, we know that it is fitting in with the rest of the 200 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:35.060 calendar and the rest of the episodes gotcha. You're just making sure the 201 00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:39.180 content and the most even spread. But you don't necessarily like designate in 202 00:15:39.180 --> 00:15:41.890 the podcaster and the title or description that it's this one's in 203 00:15:41.890 --> 00:15:45.870 this category. This one's in that category, correct? Yeah. Because part 204 00:15:45.870 --> 00:15:49.600 of the hope to is, you know, like if we were to sort of categorize things like 205 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:55.350 that in the feed, the worry would be that some folks might not listen to it 206 00:15:55.350 --> 00:15:59.040 if they think they're not interested in the category. Right? So we we still 207 00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:02.820 want to keep it open to where we think, you know, anyone can find this 208 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:06.600 interesting if they just kind of give the episode of shot. It's interesting. 209 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.280 It's kind of what we came to a conclusion to to we were a daily show. 210 00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:13.960 So we're putting out content once, at least sometimes multiple times a day. 211 00:16:13.970 --> 00:16:18.020 Um and we did find when we had to try to designate categories, some people 212 00:16:18.020 --> 00:16:21.570 just stopped engaging with some categories. And there was, it was made 213 00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:25.760 it harder to revive a category because people just became not used to not 214 00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:29.340 listening to that. Yeah, interesting, interesting. You guys kind of ran to 215 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:32.590 the same thing or have come to the same conclusion now. Do you take your 216 00:16:32.590 --> 00:16:38.090 podcast and turn them into blog posts? Yeah, we do actually. And it sort of 217 00:16:38.090 --> 00:16:42.630 actually goes both ways. So, you know, we'll take content just like a, you 218 00:16:42.630 --> 00:16:48.110 know, a 10 minute snippet from like a 16 year 40 minutes show and turn it 219 00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:52.410 into some text content that will then, you know, organise a little better. We 220 00:16:52.410 --> 00:16:56.580 won't pull it directly, but we'll sort of use it as a jumping off point. And 221 00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:00.220 then we'll also we'll go through our old like blog archives and say, hey, 222 00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:04.069 this was like a really interesting article we did. Is there someone we 223 00:17:04.069 --> 00:17:08.480 could find out there to talk about it with on the podcast? So it goes both 224 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:13.670 ways. It's absolutely true that the text content in the podcast content 225 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:18.089 feed off of each other in a loop for sure. And it makes it easier really. So, 226 00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:21.790 you know, if we're trying to come up with blog article ideas, we can just go 227 00:17:21.790 --> 00:17:25.520 to the podcast feed, say, hey, what did well with our audience, what's like one 228 00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:29.220 little thing we could pull from there and it makes a lot easier to come up 229 00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:33.400 with ideas, but you don't necessarily take your podcast and turn and turn 230 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.050 that exact episode into a full blog post. You, you come up with some really 231 00:17:37.050 --> 00:17:42.660 robust show notes and just call it good for that, correct? Yeah, yep. Okay, 232 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:46.940 when you publish a new episode, like what's kind of the rhythm you do to get 233 00:17:46.940 --> 00:17:50.950 it out there, do you just splinter it out into multiple different social 234 00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:55.610 pieces? Do you just publish it into the blog? How many places does a new 235 00:17:55.610 --> 00:17:59.480 episode go in order to get it out into the world? Sure, it's a good question. 236 00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:04.400 Yes, we, we don't do those like little snippets, like previews that you see a 237 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:08.630 lot of folks doing these days, part of it honestly is just as a, we're a three 238 00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:13.680 person team for a big, big brand and so there's just not quite time to do all 239 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:18.550 of that. So what we'll do is uh, it'll get published on the website, which 240 00:18:18.550 --> 00:18:24.000 then goes out to our email newsletter, which I believe is a couple 100,000 241 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.010 strong. I'm not entirely positive on the latest numbers. So it's going out 242 00:18:28.010 --> 00:18:35.290 an email and then it's a social blast primarily to twitter instagram linkedin 243 00:18:35.470 --> 00:18:40.810 and Pinterest was the big ones for us. At least surprisingly, we get more more 244 00:18:40.810 --> 00:18:45.430 linkedin and Pinterest traffic than we would expect, especially as like a 245 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:50.110 men's lifestyle brand. Right? So that's kind of interesting. And then, uh, the 246 00:18:50.110 --> 00:18:55.610 other big thing is we're sharing it with one, we're asking the person we've 247 00:18:55.610 --> 00:19:00.770 interviewed to share with their network, which is often social and a newsletter 248 00:19:00.780 --> 00:19:05.740 and then we're also sharing with the publishers. So like for a new book, I'm 249 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:10.260 often in communication with the publicist for that book. Right? So I'll 250 00:19:10.270 --> 00:19:13.810 share it with like penguin, Random House for instance, say, hey, this is 251 00:19:13.820 --> 00:19:18.220 our episode with your author. Would you share it with your channels as well? 252 00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:23.820 And it just sort of grows, grows from there so makes sense when you say you 253 00:19:23.820 --> 00:19:27.780 push it out on social as a social blast, does that mean you're kind of like 254 00:19:27.780 --> 00:19:32.330 taking the link and dropping it in or like you automated like what it's like 255 00:19:32.330 --> 00:19:36.900 when you drop an episode on twitter, what does that look like? Yeah. So I'm 256 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:42.000 using buffer for most of our social sharing so I just drop a link and a 257 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:47.290 headline. I'll often in front of it put new podcast with the headline and then 258 00:19:47.290 --> 00:19:51.200 tagging the person we've interviewed and that's about it. Yeah I do it all 259 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:56.260 manually that way. I prefer that being able to make just little tweaks to the 260 00:19:56.260 --> 00:20:00.490 content instead of having it pushed automatically. So yeah we do it all 261 00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:04.340 manual and then buffer will of course with their algorithms sort of re share 262 00:20:04.340 --> 00:20:08.810 it throughout basically the course of the next week. So sure. So it gets 263 00:20:08.810 --> 00:20:12.540 posted multiple times to something like twitter rather than just the one time. 264 00:20:12.550 --> 00:20:17.070 It does, yeah, yeah. We we take advantage of those buffer algorithms to 265 00:20:17.080 --> 00:20:23.800 repost it automatically. Okay. And are you customizing it per channel? Do you 266 00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:27.490 like write it differently for linkedin than you would for twitter? No, we're 267 00:20:27.490 --> 00:20:32.090 using this the same text for your twitter Pinterest instagram is a little 268 00:20:32.090 --> 00:20:38.430 different. Um will often either share the podcast in a story or just like a 269 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:42.180 monthly roundup if it's in the main feed. But we've noticed that that the 270 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:47.550 stories uh do tend to do really well for click through for us for episodes. 271 00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:52.340 Yeah, I mean stories is where mostly attention is on instagram. Remember 272 00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:56.540 when that happened like two or three years ago I was running a lot of ads on 273 00:20:56.540 --> 00:21:00.790 the facebook platform and things were steady until I looked at like, like it 274 00:21:00.790 --> 00:21:03.770 used to all be in the instagram feed is where all my leads came from. And then 275 00:21:03.770 --> 00:21:07.820 over the course of a summer, like flipped, it was like 80 20 and then it 276 00:21:07.820 --> 00:21:12.590 flipped the other way 80 20. Like used to be, it went from uh where people can 277 00:21:12.590 --> 00:21:16.360 scroll to the stories is where people's attention shifted, happened really fast. 278 00:21:16.840 --> 00:21:20.210 Yeah, it's a huge difference and we, you know, we get a little bit of click 279 00:21:20.210 --> 00:21:24.880 through from twitter and Pinterest, but most of the click through like the 280 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:29.290 actual R. O. I. Is definitely from, from instagram and we're sort of 281 00:21:29.290 --> 00:21:35.100 intentionally not on like Snapchat or Tic tac or some of those other ones. We 282 00:21:35.100 --> 00:21:39.890 just have sort of seen them as to flash in the pan. I know other brands have 283 00:21:39.890 --> 00:21:44.880 had success, but we, we kind of like to stick with the two tried and true. So 284 00:21:45.030 --> 00:21:49.280 where do you go for inspiration when you want to figure out how to do your 285 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:54.060 job better? Who are you looking up to? That's man, that's a great question. 286 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.000 You know, there are other other, like I would sort of, I guess call them like 287 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:06.830 legacy mens brands, right, that have been around for a decade plus, so Dab 288 00:22:06.830 --> 00:22:12.700 Bird dot com is one of them joe Webber runs out. It's a style blog that sort 289 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:16.930 of does some other things. He doesn't have a podcast, but puts out a ton of 290 00:22:16.930 --> 00:22:22.280 content. Real men, real style is another one you might have heard about, 291 00:22:22.280 --> 00:22:27.360 you know, again, maybe a decade ago. Yeah, Primer Magazine is a good one. 292 00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:31.640 It's this really interesting space, especially if like for men's lifestyle, 293 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:34.770 right, where we're sort of in the middle, we're not like we're not 294 00:22:34.770 --> 00:22:38.900 political, like you've seen a lot of those like actual magazine brands go, 295 00:22:38.900 --> 00:22:43.360 it's like esquire has gotten very, very political lately and we try to stay 296 00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:49.980 away and we're also not like the other end, like like the bro, men's internet, 297 00:22:49.990 --> 00:22:54.810 you know, like this weird middle ground and it's sort of a strange place to be, 298 00:22:54.820 --> 00:23:00.300 but those, those are sort of some of the the other websites I'll go to, even 299 00:23:00.300 --> 00:23:06.670 just for motivation to keep going, right, and then there's some classic, 300 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:10.020 you know, I read a lot of books can tell, you know, bookshelves behind me, 301 00:23:10.030 --> 00:23:14.650 a lot of Stephen press field books are always inspiring. So I don't know if 302 00:23:14.650 --> 00:23:19.540 you've heard of the War of Art or Turning Pro are amazing little books 303 00:23:19.540 --> 00:23:22.950 that I'll even just keep on my desk and flip through on a daily basis, that are 304 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:28.190 our super inspiring. So I'm always looking at other kinds like text 305 00:23:28.190 --> 00:23:31.890 content. I'm a words guy, you know. Um So that's that's generally where I'm 306 00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:36.680 going. Fantastic. Is there anything else you think the audience would that 307 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:39.780 would benefit the audience to know, coming from your seat managing this 308 00:23:39.780 --> 00:23:44.160 large B two C podcast? That would be helpful for B two B marketers and 309 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.640 podcasters out there? Sure. So I I think the biggest thing for us is, you 310 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.350 know, I was saying before we recorded, we have not done a ton of traditional 311 00:23:52.840 --> 00:23:57.550 marketing. The biggest thing we've done is constancy. Our audience knows we're 312 00:23:57.550 --> 00:24:02.270 doing two episodes a week every single week, really, no matter what happens in 313 00:24:02.270 --> 00:24:06.670 our life, right? We've all, me and my boss, there's been babies and 314 00:24:06.670 --> 00:24:10.870 emergencies and pandemics and elections and there are always going to be two 315 00:24:10.870 --> 00:24:15.670 episodes a week regardless. And I think that's been a huge driver of our growth, 316 00:24:15.670 --> 00:24:21.190 is that people can rely on us. And then the other thing is is we uh we know 317 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:26.880 that we have a really loyal audience and we will um you know, not not take 318 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.300 advantage of them, but we know that they're going to have our back and that 319 00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:33.950 they're going to support what we're doing. And so we are more focused on 320 00:24:33.950 --> 00:24:39.080 the audience we we have and helping them out and getting them to spread the 321 00:24:39.080 --> 00:24:44.090 word because they love us so much versus reaching for the new audience 322 00:24:44.090 --> 00:24:49.770 members um necessarily. So that's kind of the r two big things, right? We we 323 00:24:49.770 --> 00:24:54.690 know our audience and we we cater to them for sure, and then we uh we stick 324 00:24:54.690 --> 00:25:00.030 around man for hell or high water. So yeah, So it's interesting the things 325 00:25:00.030 --> 00:25:04.440 that I'm kind of taken away from this as a B2B market er um as since the art 326 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.760 of manliness is very much a lifestyle, things that came out of Brett's desire 327 00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:13.280 to see something, something that was missing, right? A way of life for a way 328 00:25:13.280 --> 00:25:18.030 of thinking maybe more. So uh that was missing from culture at that point and 329 00:25:18.030 --> 00:25:23.100 then starting develop content around it. And it's developed this like old manly 330 00:25:23.100 --> 00:25:28.220 men, but not Arnold Schwarzenegger, manly man, like back olden times, manly 331 00:25:28.220 --> 00:25:34.200 men, 19 thirties, boxer, kind of manly men, right, harkening back to that day 332 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.420 and age And then creating a lot of content around it, getting people 333 00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:40.790 excited about it, finding like minded individuals. I'm like, almost wonder if 334 00:25:40.800 --> 00:25:45.380 B2B would benefit from trying to think like that, like what kind of what's 335 00:25:45.390 --> 00:25:49.240 what's missing, what's missing, and probably best maybe even if your B. Two 336 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:52.720 B. Founder then it's a lot easier because you're you get to set the tone 337 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.120 of the culture of the organization. But even as a B. Two B. Market er you might 338 00:25:56.120 --> 00:25:59.830 want to fish around for like what what's missing in the lifestyle or the 339 00:25:59.830 --> 00:26:03.480 culture of the people that you're marketing to that they wish or inspire. 340 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.530 Maybe even reading in different places at different genres. Um And how do you 341 00:26:07.530 --> 00:26:12.410 bring a bit of that culture and seasoning? You know that flavor back 342 00:26:12.410 --> 00:26:15.520 into your brand to make it more interesting because there's lots of 343 00:26:15.520 --> 00:26:19.300 people publishing great men's content. But the art of manliness, what makes it 344 00:26:19.300 --> 00:26:25.700 different is the that feel around it. It has it has this nostalgia to it that 345 00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:29.220 makes it just a much more fun and interesting and engaging brand. It also 346 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:33.840 has that mission to draw back to. That's not like the generic excellent 347 00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:36.830 like businesses have really born, we all know businesses have like these 348 00:26:36.830 --> 00:26:41.080 born that nobody likes, but the art of manliness has this real clear and 349 00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:45.550 distinct mission they're trying to go for. That becomes the kind of the 350 00:26:45.550 --> 00:26:49.960 litmus test for every single piece of content, or the way you can figure out 351 00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.360 how to add an angle to every single piece of content, How it can end with 352 00:26:53.370 --> 00:26:57.950 being practical to help accomplish this thing. What is your content helping to 353 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:03.240 produce in people? How is it helping them to aspire and attain the goals 354 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.360 that they've set for themselves Or maybe that lifestyle that you found 355 00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:10.220 there all aspiring towards? How do you add a little bit more of that to it in 356 00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:14.840 order to help it stand out from other business content, which tends to be 357 00:27:14.850 --> 00:27:20.960 really helpful and but not very fun. It's much more plain vanilla, even if 358 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:25.680 it is um well written and clearly articulated. Maybe even has some spunk 359 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.350 in the writing. But how do you create that consistency across your brand and 360 00:27:29.350 --> 00:27:32.440 pull from it? Well, Jeremy, that's at least that's what I'm kind of getting 361 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:37.270 out of this as a B2B market or trying to feel like Trying to look for look at 362 00:27:37.270 --> 00:27:43.520 B2C for inspiration. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today, and I 363 00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:47.110 want to give you a chance to tell anybody about where they can learn more 364 00:27:47.110 --> 00:27:50.880 from you if they have questions have follow ups, where can they go online, 365 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:55.620 discover or to to talk to you and discover what you're up to. Sure. So 366 00:27:55.620 --> 00:28:00.310 are the manliness dot com is where to go for for all things art of manliness 367 00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:04.160 in terms of social, you know, I'm probably more attentive than than the 368 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:09.020 art of manliness channels as a whole and I'm at jeremy and er berg J E R E N 369 00:28:09.020 --> 00:28:15.640 Y A N D E R B E R G on twitter and instagram. And I also have my own 370 00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:21.120 newsletter about books and reading that can be found at read more books dot Ceo 371 00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:26.220 and any of those spots, you can go and find what we're up to and ask questions. 372 00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:30.120 We're happy to engage. Fantastic again. Thank you so much for joining me on the 373 00:28:30.120 --> 00:28:34.850 show today. Yeah. Thanks dan. It really was my pleasure. Mm 374 00:28:36.340 --> 00:28:40.330 Are you on linkedin? That's a stupid question. Of course, you're on linkedin 375 00:28:40.340 --> 00:28:44.860 here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in on the platform. Multiple people from our 376 00:28:44.860 --> 00:28:48.660 team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me. 377 00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:52.750 Other times it's a micro video or a slide deck and sometimes it's just A 378 00:28:52.760 --> 00:28:56.810 regular old status update that shares their unique point of view on B- two B 379 00:28:56.810 --> 00:29:01.030 marketing leadership or their job function. We're posting this content 380 00:29:01.030 --> 00:29:05.820 through their personal profile, not our company page and it would warm my heart 381 00:29:05.830 --> 00:29:10.380 and soul if you connected with each of our evangelists, we'll be adding more 382 00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:15.360 down the road. But for now you should connect with Bill Read, our ceo Kelcy 383 00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:19.320 Montgomery, our creative director Dan Sanchez, our director of audience 384 00:29:19.320 --> 00:29:23.750 growth Logan, Lyles, our director of partnerships and me, James Carberry. 385 00:29:23.780 --> 00:29:27.490 We're having a whole lot of fun on linked in pretty much every single day 386 00:29:27.780 --> 00:29:29.350 and we'd love for you to be a part of it.