What a Record Label Can Teach B2B Marketers About Building a Brand, with Alex Heddle

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:22.640 Welcome into Friday show. Excited to share a featured conversation with you, a 3 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:27.839 replay episode from our Archive, as we always do on Fridays before we get 4 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:32.399 their friends. Have a bit of an announcement here now. As you know, 5 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.880 for sweet fish media and for be to be growth, we are on 6 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:40.359 a mission to help in house be to be marketers, continue to innovate, 7 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:44.640 create amazing content and we want to help feel your growth. So, that 8 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:49.679 being said, we are going under construction as a podcast, and what I 9 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:54.320 can say for now is that I am excited about what we're going to do 10 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:58.520 between now and the end of two thousand and twenty two, but we need 11 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:02.960 some time to make it happen. So in this pivot season we're going to 12 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.959 move from five episodes a week to three episodes a week and we're going to 13 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.760 start that next week. I cannot tell you how thankful I am for each 14 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:15.239 and every one of you for listening to the show, for supporting it, 15 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:21.400 for giving US feedback last month on our survey. Always feel free to connect 16 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:26.239 with me on Linkedin and can't wait to share all that we have coming down 17 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:33.879 the road for this podcast. All right, so going from five to three 18 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:37.599 episodes. But what are we doing today? Today we're going to share a 19 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:44.120 throwback conversation what a record label can teach be to be marketers about building a 20 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:48.719 brand with Alex Hedel. Let's talk about brand building. Let's learn from the 21 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.400 music industry. Let's dive in to today's featured conversation. Here we go. 22 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:02.879 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. 23 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:07.120 I'm joined today by Alex Hedel. He's the VP of publishing at big machine 24 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:09.960 music. Alex, welcome to the show. How's it going today? Man, 25 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.919 thank you so much, Logan. It's going great, beautiful day in 26 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.000 Nashville. Absolutely so. As as listeners can probably tell from your title, 27 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.199 you are not a b Tob Marketer, at least in in your current role, 28 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:24.039 and so people might be thinking. Will hold on a second. We 29 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:30.719 are normally interviewing marketing leaders at BEDB tech companies. Why are we talking to 30 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:34.639 Alex here from from a record label? And what we're going to be talking 31 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:39.080 about is what marketers in BETB can learn from the tactics, in the strategies 32 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:43.360 that you employ every day at a record label. So for a little bit 33 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.120 of context, Alex, tell us a little bit about your current role, 34 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:49.879 what you're doing at the record label and and some context to kind of tea 35 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.800 up this conversation. So my current role at big machine music is I lead 36 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:59.240 creative for the publishing arm of the of the label group, and so that's 37 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:04.159 very much the career great of side of of the company. I manage and 38 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:10.039 develop songwriters and also develop artists who write their own songs. We currently have, 39 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:15.000 I think, around twenty songwriters or were songwriter artists on our on our 40 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:21.599 roster, and it's really our job to, you know, develop them for 41 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:23.560 the market. So these are people with talent, people that write songs on 42 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:29.719 a daily basis and really just making sure that they are producing songs that are 43 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:35.120 competitive that then we can take and shop out two different artists or TV shows 44 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.560 or movies or video games or really anywhere a copyright can make make money. 45 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:45.159 Where we've really excelled is just in the country radio and now pop radio game 46 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:47.120 though. So you know, whether it's yeah, like you know, finding 47 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:53.560 a young luke combs or a young Brett young and believing in what they're writing 48 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.199 and then and really just focusing on making sure that it's competitive sonically for the 49 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.360 market. And then, of course, then you are selling it to different 50 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:03.080 people within your own company, making sure people are prepped with right information. 51 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.759 You know, on that side we're very much in product development, I guess 52 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:13.120 you would say. We obviously we call it artist development, but with songwriters 53 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:17.600 it's kind of the same thing. And then yet even more where we are 54 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.199 instructing them on what is competitive in the market. We're keeping them fresh on 55 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:26.240 what artists are doing well right now, what we think that we can we 56 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:29.480 can go after. I mean, whether it's an artist that you know doesn't 57 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:31.519 write their own songs and you know they're writing songs in a room, and 58 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:34.800 then I am taking those songs and pitching it to the artists in our person 59 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:41.199 the artists themselves, their producer, really anyone who's involved in that decision making 60 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.199 process around them. Or if it's an artist that does write their own songs, 61 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:48.079 then I take one of our his songwriters try to make an introduction in 62 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.720 a natural sense, which is, you know, really where sales comes in. 63 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:55.079 You know, whether you're pitching a song, I mean you're built a 64 00:04:55.120 --> 00:05:00.199 relationship. You got to report reputation that you can put forth and really leverage 65 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:03.639 to, you know, then make sure that there are giving you the time 66 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:06.240 and respect that you need to really show you you know, hey, I 67 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:11.199 have a great product. He please take this seriously. And then or, 68 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.079 you know, if you're shopping your songwriter to collaborate with an artist, then 69 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.439 you're really just kind of trying to work on style, you know, lyrics, 70 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.680 things that you know these this artists are definitely going to connect to in 71 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.839 order to try and make that connection for them to get in a room together, 72 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.240 or really pedigree. So it's if it's a hit songwriter that has written 73 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:32.360 a bunch of hits. Well, like sometimes like, let's say, I'm, 74 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:35.120 I don't know, kind the sky, like a guy like Sam hunt 75 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:39.120 or something like that, that, you know, I'm trying to shop one 76 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:42.920 of my writers over to write with. Well, I know Sam, you 77 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:47.079 know, certainly likes more artistic, you know, forms of contemporary music, 78 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.600 and so somebody who can really write great lyrics. So somebody who really respects 79 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:56.079 and slows down the creative process. I mean just thinking about these kind of 80 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.680 micromoments in a room. And then, you know, really just marketing that 81 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.240 towards person's you're making this connection to two people that can create together and in 82 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:10.360 a way that hopefully yields a hit. So I love how much relationships were 83 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:15.319 just woven throughout kind of that background and context, Alex, and I'd like 84 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.600 to dig into that a little bit because I do think there are some parallels 85 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:23.800 for bb sales and marketing leaders, because you know, in bb we usually 86 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:28.800 have a very targeted list, a targeted focus of the market that we're trying 87 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:31.240 to serve. We're trying to serve, you know, VP's of sales at 88 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:38.680 technology companies or operations managers at manufacturing companies. We kind of know that profile 89 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.240 and in bb we're not trying to reach the masses, we're not trying to 90 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.800 reach millions, billions of people. And when you think about a record label 91 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.279 you think about all the consumption on the consumer level of the music. But 92 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:56.600 really in your role it's about focusing first on those key relationships and then being 93 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.240 able to identify how do I build those relationships, how do I open open 94 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.360 those doors to new relationships, how do I foster them, and then how 95 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:08.560 do I connect what I know about them, not in kind of a baetan 96 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:12.120 switch sort of way, but what I understand to match what I have to 97 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.399 offer to them. So what are some of the things that you think have 98 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.360 been helpful for you and in both opening those doors to new relationships and continuing 99 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:24.439 to foster those with the folks in the market that you're trying to serve? 100 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:29.879 You mention a couple key personas that you're building relationships with, for for your 101 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.720 company and for the songwriters that you represent. What are some of those things 102 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:40.199 that have been your secret sauce? I mean really it's just managing what I'm 103 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:44.199 putting forward to people. I mean I always my goal is to always be 104 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:47.319 bringing value to somebody. I never want to hustle anybody because honestly, they 105 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.360 want to work with me again. And the music community, I mean the 106 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:55.560 country music community, is small but like if you really look at the music 107 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:58.639 community, like you can when we go to the grammys ever every year, 108 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:01.240 you realize how big of a world of music it is, but you also 109 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:05.120 realize how small the community of success it is, and so if you want 110 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:09.399 to play ball then you better bring your best every day. So that's why 111 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.240 I focus so much. I'm, you know, just knowing intimately the people 112 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.560 that I'm working with, you know, my songwriters. I need to know 113 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.240 what they love with it, how they represent themselves in the room, how 114 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.600 they want to win as a big thing for me too, because, you 115 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:24.519 know, if they are passionate about the direction that we're heading in, then 116 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:30.480 I have, you know, somebody who's making our quote unquote, product that 117 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.000 is passionate, feels inspired, knows that every day they're going in and doing 118 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.519 something that is very purposeful for them. So, you know, once you 119 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.480 have that, once you have somebody that is excited to, you know, 120 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.080 go in and make a collaboration happeners writing these songs that then I can, 121 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.080 you know, become passionate about and bring to these people, I think that 122 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.799 that is just kind of a contagious factor, you know, when you have 123 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.799 something that is so real to, you know, already a few people and 124 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.000 then you're bringing it to the buyer, which is, you know, really 125 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:03.320 an Aar person at a record label or a or producer or an artist or, 126 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.039 honestly, sometimes on pitching stuff to video games and film and TV and 127 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.600 stuff like that too, and that's a bit of a different game, but 128 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.559 it's still great that you believe in your products. I mean, if you 129 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.919 really believe in your product, other people will start to leave as well. 130 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.200 Hey, everybody logan with sweet fish here. You probably already know that we 131 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.519 think you should start a podcast, if you haven't already. But what if 132 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.720 you have and you're asking these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast 133 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:35.360 impacted revenue this year? How is our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? 134 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.480 If you can't answer these questions, you're actually not alone. This is 135 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:45.600 why I casted, created the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be 136 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:50.559 tob podcasting. Now you can more easily search and share your audio content while 137 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:56.120 getting greater visibility into the impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at Drift 138 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:01.240 Terminus and here at sweetfish have started using casted to get more value out of 139 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.240 our podcasts, and you probably can to. You can check out the product 140 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:15.320 in action and casted dot US growth. That's sea St Ed dot US growth. 141 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:20.440 All right, let's get back to the show. Absolutely I love that 142 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.919 you talked. You know, we kind of started down this trail talking about 143 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.320 relationships and you touched on something. They're knowing what the the people in the 144 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.879 market that you're trying to serve what they're passionate about and I think in in 145 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:37.120 BB marketing we kind of skip over the emotional aspect of it with you know, 146 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:41.279 if you're selling a crm software or a sales engagement platform, it's well, 147 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:46.120 we're missing this time and and this feature fits this problem and solves and 148 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.759 provides this benefit. But what's the emotional situation of the people that were selling 149 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:54.200 to? What gets them fired up, what gets them frustrated, what really 150 00:10:54.279 --> 00:11:00.720 takes them off right and and how can we determine where their emotional state aligns 151 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:05.399 with what we're passionate about as a brandon and what our what our why is? 152 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.480 And then in telling a story where your product or your service weaves in, 153 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.360 weaves into that. You kind of mentioned another thing that we're very passionate 154 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.799 about here, Alex I. It was kind of subtle and what you said 155 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:20.000 there, but you essentially alluding to playing the long game, that you're always 156 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.399 adding value. You're not looking to every interaction. I deposit this, I 157 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.159 get this back out right. I'm going to deposit, I'm going to deposit, 158 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.320 I'm going to deposit. Like Gary V says, Jab Jab Jab right 159 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:31.759 hook. It's not Jabb Right Hook, Jab right, Hook right. I'm 160 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.919 going to give and take, give and take. It's give, give, 161 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.559 give, and then it's probably going to come back to you before you even 162 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:43.399 ask if you're if you're giving enough. At the same time, you do, 163 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.279 you know, as marketers, as salespeople, we've got quotas to hit, 164 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:52.360 we've got pipeline to generate. There is a responsibility for the business results. 165 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:58.240 So how do you balance that mentality and being competitive and somewhat aggressive, 166 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:03.000 passionate about out what you do and getting that message to the right people, 167 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.000 without coming across as hey, I'm just trying to hustle? It's that's really 168 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:09.120 my end game. How do you balance that? What do you think other 169 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.320 sales and marketing folks could learn their Alex? I mean, I think it 170 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.879 depends on the context of first of all, there's a quote that I love 171 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.559 from our CEO. He always says like, you know, welcome to the 172 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.879 music business. Like how long do you want to play, as in like 173 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.240 welcome to the Casino? How long do you want to play? Do you 174 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.679 want to throw all your money down and walk away in two weeks, or 175 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:31.159 you want to learn the game? You want to figure out how you can 176 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:35.279 play the longest, how you can be involved and how you can make the 177 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.000 biggest impact. And you know, I think it depends on the context. 178 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.279 With us, when we were starting this company out eight years ago, we 179 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:45.519 were we were small. We had a budget that had kind of been set 180 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:46.759 out in front of us of money that we're going to be able to grow 181 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.200 our company with, but it wasn't through acquisitions. It was it was really 182 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:54.799 through signing and development. So I mean really for us it was like, 183 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.120 you know, when you have like three or four or five songwriters early on, 184 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.080 you have a lot of places you can go. And so, yeah, 185 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.799 there is always a need to be in front of people in selling, 186 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.440 but you know, if you have other avenues, if one if one area 187 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.440 is not appropriate just yet, well, you can still build a relationship by 188 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.679 like, you know, sharing good content with that person or sharing time with 189 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:20.120 that person or just honestly becoming a friend or at least building reputation where you're 190 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.600 showing, Hey, I'm doing this over here and I'm going to come come 191 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:24.440 to you at some point. But you know, there's other for me it 192 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.320 was always I can go focus on this over here, build more reputation for 193 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:33.279 our song where to build more of a story over here, so then eventually 194 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.639 I can bring it over here to a place that, you know, I 195 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.639 couldn't go over and try and hustle, but I'm just not going to do 196 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:39.960 it. I'm going to go when it's appropriate and when I'm really bringing value 197 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.000 to them. So I think it's just being really respectful of timing, because 198 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.279 it really does play so much into into growth, you know. I mean 199 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.320 it's knowing, knowing when you're we're when you're ready to take advantage of the 200 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.039 right situation. Yeah, absolutely makes sense that I hit the nail on the 201 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:58.080 head there. Yeah, absolutely, and I have a follow up question to 202 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.120 that, Alex, because I think that the stage you describe kind of talking 203 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:07.399 about the earlier days of the company, when you're kind of that that disruptor 204 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.200 you're not the the biggest player in town yet, that sort of stuff. 205 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.000 There are a lot of companies that we talk to that are maybe at that 206 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.480 stage in their own start up journey. Maybe they've got their seed round or 207 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.399 they've got a series a of funding and they're just starting to kind of try 208 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.120 and take on the bigger names in the in their space and in very different 209 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.360 industries and so they've got to make a decision. How do we go to 210 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.519 market? Do we do we try to, you know, run a bunch 211 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.960 of ADS and and try to get a bunch of direct response? Do we 212 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:43.279 go the the long game of creating more content and building very strategic relationships, 213 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.000 it sounds to you, as opposed to kind of pounding the phones and making 214 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.039 a ton of sales calls and and and try and say hey, do you 215 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:52.519 want to work with us? Do you want to work with us? Do 216 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.240 you want to work with us? That was that was not the them that 217 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.039 you took, even though it's like hey, I'm I'm responsible for you know, 218 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.600 we've got to drive new business. Do you think that that's a leadership 219 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.360 thing that at some organizations, I can imagine, you know, the CEO 220 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.440 saying, well, we don't have time to kind of play the long game, 221 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:15.759 like we've got a sink or swim. Now, as much as I 222 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.200 see kind of this long game that you want to play building relationships and in 223 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.759 adding value without that direct ask was that a struggle to kind of balance that 224 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.480 for you in the early days or not? And and how did leadership kind 225 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.200 of play a role in that? I mean, no, they were. 226 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:35.360 They were definitely on our tails when, I will were losing money, but 227 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.320 luckily we were able to turn that around pretty quickly. I think that it 228 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.120 can. You know, it depends, once again, depends on the product. 229 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.000 Some things you just had to mass market, you know, sometimes you 230 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.279 sometimes you have to spend that money just to freaking honestly shove it down people's 231 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:52.240 throat until they know that they need it, they know they want it. 232 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.159 But I think that there's a happy medium there because, you know, when 233 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:58.399 you're not able to play the long game and you, you know, do 234 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.279 have that pressure of maybe some finances and or bosses or owners or whatever partners, 235 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.799 whatever you're dealing with, I think that there's, you know, a 236 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.799 strategy that we like to use so much is, let's identify, you know, 237 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.600 the tastemaker, like let's identify that that point in the market that can 238 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.960 of make ways and let's people make a fan of of that person. So 239 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.399 it's like for us, it's like yeah, okay. Like on our creative 240 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:25.440 side, you know, I'm marking usually to marketing, usually two individuals and 241 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.559 trying to get them to you know, record a song or to take my 242 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.759 song and put it, you know, in a room with another artist. 243 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:34.399 But I think more than anything it's like, you know, we also use 244 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.399 publications. You know, we buildboard, we use rolling stone, we use 245 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.559 various professional music publications and songwriter magazines, stuff like that. People things that 246 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.159 we know that are you know, our industry, you know, pays attention 247 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.399 to and we folks on making sure that our songwriters are regularly doing interviews, 248 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:57.519 they're they're making there's themselves more of a public profile over time. And then, 249 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.759 you know, really if it's, for instance, Scott or Chet who's 250 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.119 the CEO of our company, you know, if we need get something done 251 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:06.640 really quickly, will we can go right to him, because we do that 252 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.519 relationship and he can make big ways. You know, there's sometimes you're looking 253 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.960 to kind of build a grounds, grounds well and sometimes you looking to make 254 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.200 a splash. And you know, I think that having the ability to do 255 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:21.880 both and having respect for the timing of each of those situations and for what 256 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.319 situation it's appropriate is very essential. Yeah, absolutely, Alex. as we 257 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.079 ground out the conversation today, I want to draw one more parallel between your 258 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:34.480 world in the music industry and be tob sales and marketing and something you alluded 259 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:40.720 to earlier. It's the relationship between taking taking your product market and then giving 260 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:44.079 feedback. So in a beebe context, that might not it's not going to 261 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.559 be songwriters, but it is going to be your your product development team, 262 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:51.480 your product team who is providing updates if you, you know, have a 263 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:56.480 Sass platform something like that. And so I think the lesson there for sales 264 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.920 and marketing teams is is to if you don't have that line of communication into 265 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.960 your product team at at some level to be able to provide some feedback. 266 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.640 We're hearing this about our service. We're we're seeing demand for this in the 267 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.839 market, but we don't have an answer for it. To make sure that 268 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.359 you open those lines of communication. Do you think that's that's kind of the 269 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.079 lesson there as we try and bridge that gap between music industry and be to 270 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:22.400 be a one more time today. I mean I think the close, the 271 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:27.920 closer your product developers are to the actual market, the better. You know. 272 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.599 I really think that you know people that are creating creating a product. 273 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.240 For me it's, once again, songwriters. I am constantly telling them, 274 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.640 Hey, so andso is getting ready to record a new album, hey, 275 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:42.680 so andso is getting you know, looking for a hit to put on the 276 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:47.000 radio. So and so it's looking for, you know, a song for 277 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.000 their new EP. You know, we're always informing people on this and then 278 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.680 we're also informing of like what's coming up. Oh, there's this new sound 279 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.480 over here that you should check out. I think she's really take take a 280 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:56.799 look at this and see what you can add to it, to see where 281 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:02.440 you can take this because honestly, if they're just you know, some people 282 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.480 can create magic in a dark room, in that you know, in the 283 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.799 back corner or someplace in Silicon Valley or Nashville, Tennessee, or in New 284 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.680 York City or you know wherever it is. But more often than not we're 285 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:18.759 improving on existing ideas and so we have to know what those existing ideas are 286 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.839 at the market in order to really take that next step. So I really, 287 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.359 I really believe that sales teams, and once again I'm kind of a 288 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.119 bridge gap. Ay, I do a little bit of both, but I 289 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.599 really believe that, you know, the more informed, the more information that's 290 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:36.000 going from your sales staff, it's your product development company. With respects, 291 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:41.319 that is important because that relationship can become contentious. The better because that's how 292 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.000 people grow, that's how people are challenged, that's how people think creatively and 293 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.880 don't get complacent. Yeah, absolutely, and that's how you create products that 294 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.799 the market actually wants. You know, I love one of the I forget 295 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.839 where this quote is from, but don't don't take your product and try and 296 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.079 find people to to buy it. Find what people are wanting to buy and 297 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:06.559 create a product to offer them. I'm at really not quoting that well, 298 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:10.000 but hopefully I get the point across there. That kind of sums up what 299 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:11.240 you were talking about there, Alex. well, this has been a great 300 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.880 conversation, man. I really appreciate you being down for this. I think 301 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.920 it was a little bit of a changeup episode, and a fun one at 302 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.880 least. A great conversation for me. I hope listeners got some value out 303 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:25.240 of it. Alex, if anybody wants to reach out, get connected with 304 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.880 you, or just anything else exciting that you guys have going on at the 305 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:32.279 company that you want to share with listeners today, what's something you want to 306 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:37.359 share their I mean what's going on the company? Last week was our eighth 307 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.039 year anniversary and we've actually in the same week we celebrate our thirty number one 308 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:47.640 hit song as well as currently we're, we've been thirty five weeks straight at 309 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.160 the top of the billboard hot country songs chart, with two songs, specifically 310 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.240 tenzero hours by Justin Bieber and Dan and Shay Co written by our writer, 311 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:02.079 just you're, Dylan and Laura Velt's co wrote the bones by Mary Morris that 312 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:03.920 then took over for that mistaken it. So we're having a hell of a birthday