Transcript
WEBVTT
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth.
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Welcome in to today's episode of be
to be growth. Today I'm joined by
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Dave Gerhart, founder of DGMG,
former marketing execuet drift and Privy Dy've welcome
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into the show. Yeah, thanks
for having me, Ben Jim. I'm
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happy to be here. Yeah,
you'r you got me fresh off the audiobook
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recording and so I might. If
you just want me to read the audiobook
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for forty minutes, I could do
that if you'd also like. Your Voice
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is like lower. You're coming in
with that author mentality and the vocals.
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Yeah, no, you know what, it's actually funny. My voice is
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actually I never wore headphones doing podcasts
and I always feel as I was yelling
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or talking over people, and I've
found that monitoring my voice actually makes me
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a much more tolerable speaker, as
you obviously can probably understand. Yeah,
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I definitely can. I am very
loud by nature, so I'm sorry if
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I come in super loud in your
head, but I definitely resonate with that.
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I wear the headphones, I hear
my voice in my head I'm like,
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Whoa, this is a little different. But so congratulations is in order
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the new book. It's out.
It's called founder brand. Turn your story
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into your competitive advantage. So congratulations. Thank you. It's still a number
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one book on Amazon and Marketing Right
now, which is a which is pretty
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cool. I wish I had more
reviews. I guess there's a whole strategy
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that I could have done to get
reviews on launch day and I know marketing
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people are listening to this. So
that's the only reason why I'm sharing this
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this level. This where want then
to help. But but it's awesome.
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It's been a fun week and it's
cool to see people with like a's cool
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to now see that like that order
day was cool, but now I'm sorry
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to see pictures of like people sending
the book and it's really cool. Thanks.
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HMM. Yeah. So today what
we want to do is we want
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to walk through the book in its
sense. The marketing strategy that you used
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to help drift become one of the
fastest growing SASS companies of all time and
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achieve a over a billion dollar valuation
set the scene for us because it also
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sets the scene for the book.
But how did you come across this marketing
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strategy? Yeah, I mean I
think that the drift, like I use
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that drift example because it like titles
nice and it's like a sexy, like
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click battish title. But, like, I think looking back like this helped
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privy when I was there for Eddie
Year and for your and a half,
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and it's even been like the underlying
kind of playbook that I've been subconsciously running
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for myself, yeah, building my
own thing and in the marketing space,
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and so I think it's more about, like, look, I think most
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people still, from a business perspective, under rate or use social media improperly.
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They still kind of discount podcasts because
everybody's has one, and they still
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discount storytelling, which is like look, my book is not about publishing on
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Linkedin five times a day and like
you will magically grow. Like this whole
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thing works a hundred million times better
when you have something interesting to say.
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And so when I went to drift, it was like this amazing career opportunity
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because I got this founder who's wellknown
in a cool space. He kind of
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already has a following and I know
podcasting and I know social media and he
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wants to say things and challenge beliefs
and put a new point of view in
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the world. It was like wow, these ingredients are really powerful and they
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worked like magic to help grow drift
in the early days. And that magic
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is not like a growth heck word, just like. It was just amazing
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combination. We created a podcast that
had nothing to do with the product that
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we were selling and the podcast was
the thing that like created our initial audience
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and built like these these super fans. And I give it a shout out
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in the book, but there's a
guy named Henry who was like a early,
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early drift customer and Drift Super Fan, and I talked about the the
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like how, when you do this, you when you have a story and
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you're on social media, you have
pockets and you create super fans, not
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just SASS customers, but like super
fans. Henry, who was early drift
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customer, he invited me to his
wedding and we've stayed in touch. His
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fiance. Yeah, he end up
getting engaged to this girl, Chrissie,
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and Chrissy like helps me with so
much dgmg stuff and so like. That's
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not a it's not a made up
story. But and we're be tob software
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company, like you know who should
be super fans of that? Nobody,
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and I think that's the that's the
opportunity is like it's a storytelling, it's
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the using social media and ultimately,
what I saw at drift and we,
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and I think we really did a
good job of this, was we didn't
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need other people to write about us
in order for us to get our message
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out there. And so, like, we never had a PR agency that
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helped us do all this stuff.
We never had an outsourced content agency that
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helped us do all this stuff.
It was because we had a story and
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we had our own publishing channels that, like, when we wanted to do
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a product launch, we wrote a
blog post about it, we emailed our
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list about it, we tweeted about
it, and I just lived this this
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last week and launching my book.
Like I don't have a PR team.
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I've been literally in my sweatpants in
my house doing podcast interviews. How did
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you and I get connected? Right, like I reach out to Djmg Peete
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community member to say hey, if
anybody would love to have me on their
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podcast, I'd love to do it
because I'm launching a book. And on
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launch day I sent an email to
like the twelvezero people on my email list
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and now I'm following up on opportunities
from that. I didn't I didn't have
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some like PR pitch that like I
hoped tech crunch would pick up and write
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about, and I think more companies
can tap into this playbook and that's like
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really what we talked about in the
book. Yeah, it's so interesting because
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there is this thought process, I
call everyone has a podcast now or everyone's
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doing this and but in honestly,
I mean in the Bob Space maybe,
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you know, you see the top
twenty percent maybe doing it, but there's
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so many people who are interested from
afar not executing on it. There's so
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much more space for interesting perspective.
Yeah, well, okay, say there.
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You said like how there's so much
competition. I was I was thinking
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of because I tried to give you
a drift example and think about drift the
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same time. Like one of the
cool lessons that I learned from the guys
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that drift was like just because a
market is crowded doesn't mean you shouldn't go
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into it. In fact, because
the market is crowded, you already have
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one of the biggest things there,
which is like there's demand there's there's need,
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and so, like you could look
at it and say, well,
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they're people clearly listen to podcast.
And so what's my angle? What's the
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what's the unique opportunity that I have? And I talked a lot about in
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the book, about like the power
of a niche. MMM, like this
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podcast that you're on is not the
growth podcast where you talk about how to
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grow businesses. You talked very specifically
to like be to be SASS businesses.
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Yep, and that and that's why
it works. And so I like and
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as a marketing person, I actually
think that that's the fun part. It's
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like great, everybody says there are
there's already a million podcasts out there.
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How are you going to create a
different one? It's the unique point of
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view and you it takes time,
right to develop your voice, and it's
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the storytelling piece, which is a
huge I mean that's the whole first chunk
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of your book. So it's like
Perfectlydan, because you have these really three
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levels to creating a founder brand that
I want to I want to walk us
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through. But before we even get
there, is there like an approach,
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something you really like gearing toward it, like when you're thinking of a founder
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brand? Are you gearing this towards
start up specifically? Do you think it's
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more broadly applicable even for companies that
are, you know, founders, that
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are more already have established companies?
What's your thought there? I think the
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benefits can be I think any of
those scenarios that there can be benefit.
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But yeah, for me, my
kind of experience has been in the thing
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that I love, is like in
the building, in like the creation stage,
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and so I think of it as
like it's so hard to start a
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business and to get product market fit
or get initial traction and get product market
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fit and and jump start that thing. My point of view is like everyone
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just kind of goes instantly to like
market the features and benefits of that product,
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and I understand why. You you
have customers, they have pains,
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they have needs, right, but
like what I found is like that create
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like when you do the founder brand
thing, you can kind of get some
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wind at your back and some air
cover, and I know a lot of
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people will roll our eyes at that
word, but but it really works because
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when people have heard of you,
like who's going to be who's which outbound
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sales rep is going to be better
the outbound sales rep who's doing outreach for
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a company no one's ever heard of
or a company that everyone's heard of and
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now they're knocking one are, and
so I think, I think that it
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can just get in a world where
you need every advantage you can create a
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start this business and get traction.
I think building the founder brand is a
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good one. But even at like
I went to privy and they had five
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hundred thousand people using their product and
they were close to, I guess,
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like ten million in revenue. But
been as a founder, didn't didn't,
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he hadn't done a ton of things, and so you know, we saw
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benefit from when he started to do
that. And I'm sure you could make
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the case that there's a origin five
hundred CEO whatever. But the thing that
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I love is startups and I love, and I don't just even me and
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tech startups. I just love,
love people that have chosen like build their
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own thing and are doing their own
thing and they're they're trying to build something
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from nothing. I love that phase
of it and so the book that I
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wrote was really to it's it's to
help those people find and find an advantage
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and think about a different playbook that
they might not have thought about. Also,
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in the earlier stages of a company
is when that can give you the
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greatest advantage because right, Yep,
like why would I buy from this company?
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And I'm like, Oh, actually, I found out that Benji actually
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has been in this has has had
this thing in his family for twenty years
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and like he has kind of got
always been doing this thing and now he
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started the company. So like they
can give you credibility at as you're doing
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it right, like and so I
think it's like it's one of the non
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obvious ingredients. And I've also found
that, like a lot of founders,
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the reason they start the business is
because they have that story or they have
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some deep pain or passion or had
some big insight, and there's usually some
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why. Like rarely as the founder
like oh I hello, I'm Dave and
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I started this business because I want
to get wealthy, because business is business
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is to it's too hard. And
usually it's like no, this is toby
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and he's an engineer and he's actually
also into snowboarding and they want to sell
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snowboards online. But he ended up
like it was really hard to do that,
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but he's a really badass engineer,
and so he built his own platform
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and like Holy Shit, now other
people can sell snowboards online and that company
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becomes shopify. And so I think
most often founders have some type of story
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like that, which makes for just
like great marketing, you know, content
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that you can use. So when
you think of storytelling, I guess like
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what's vital in the founder story?
And then where do you feel like you
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could just cut the fat, so
to speak, because I feel like there's
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so many aspects to someone, and
I I mean we could broadcast anything about
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the founder right, right, but
there's got to be a cohesive story.
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A bit. What are the things
that you want to talk about? What
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things do you want it? What
things can you talk about credibly that are
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going to be interesting to your potential
dream customers, and isolating those one or
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two things down and then like kind
of just channeling, like those are your
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two talk tracks that you're just thinking
about. This is what will be known
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for. Yeah, and so like
with David a drift, it was like,
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okay, this guy, drift is
his fifth company and he's done a
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bunch of startup things and he's had
a bunch of acquisitions. And so like
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one of his big talk tracks is
going to be startups and entrepreneurship and product
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great, okay, so let's focus
in those areas. Let's talk about those
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things. What's he writing about that? What perspective does he have about those
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things? What what's interesting happening in
this word, because you can't just say
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you're those things, but then you
never have anything to like bring to the
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conversation as a publisher. And so
he was like prolific at like tweeting and
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just you know kind of those.
He would tweet something about like how he
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hates product managers that have mb are. Do you never hire a product manager
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that has an MBA? And that
tweet just like cause the shit storm and
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it was awesome. Yeah, and
so from that tweet it was like well,
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people, clearly this topic struck nerve. Let's go create more about this.
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And so we did a podcast episode
on that and then we turn it
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into a video and we did an
article. And so think you have to
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Chanlie and and also on the other
side that he other side was like,
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okay, well, that's that's great, he can build the audience startups,
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entrepneurship, but we're in the sales
and marketing space, and so he's also
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got to be talking about his experience
over the last twenty years in sales and
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marketing. And so I think there
are lots of different angles to tell your
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to tell the story, and even
in a book like mine it's Toff to
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give like formulaic advice because there's just
marketing is often, like any greet,
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an exercise and just like finding different
ingredients that you have. But I think
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you got to be able to isolate
like one or two categories are things that
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you want to talk about that will
help you begin to attract like minded people
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in your niche. One of my
favorite ingredients is having an identifying a villain
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or an enemy and really building on
that, because you can build great content
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off of that and it gives you
clear I mean any good story right.
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I'm sure I don't know what your
favorite movie is, but all the movies
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that we enjoy there's a clear villain
or enemy that it works so well in
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content. So how did you identify
that? When you think of a founder
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story and really building off of villain
or an enemy? I mean the identification
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was because just observing what what makes
good stories right and I think so often
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we get into our world of like
bdb marketing and like, but we don't
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we don't think about what what an
actual like, what would an actual good
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story be? We were like,
no, I got to do what?
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This is a Beeb marketing thing in
where enterprise, cyber security, whatever.
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But if you zoom all the way
out, and I think what I learned
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at trip was like just kind of
first principles about like we're going to try
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to find a way to be interesting
to people first, and when it comes
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to people, creating a villain allows
you to kind of have some like shared
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cause and shared enemy or thing you're
rallying around. But like a villain and
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there's every story has a villain.
But the villain doesn't have to mean like,
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you know, your competitor or some
like arch enemy, like a drift.
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We created a villain that was fake, fake, its no forms are.
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Our villain was lead forms right.
And like if I could go hard,
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to go really hard with an angle
for this book and say that my
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villain is PR agencies who charge twenty
grand a month and don't deliver you the
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results at the book will. or
it could be like I'm really into golf
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and there's this really cool, this
great podcast that I've been listening to you
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lately, called them chasing scratch,
and it's about these two guys who are
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in their s and have kids and
they're trying to get better at golf and
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so like their villain is just like
time and being mediocre, and that's like
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a thing that we can all rally
around. And so I think it's more
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about like creating a shared cause that
you and your customer can, like your
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ideal customer, can rally around and
surprise, you're the one that's going to
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help them tackle this this perceived villain. HMM. Yeah, having that heroes
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journey in a sense, in your
marketing man it can help move and create
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momentum and in unique ways. I'm
going to check out that podcast. That
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sounds super interesting. That's like such
an important lesson you mentioned. If you
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really want to geek out in this, Google Joseph Campbell. Yes, journey
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right, because that's the real answer
to like you know, he goes back
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through history and philosophy and basically breaks
down like hey, look, stories have
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been the thing that just like connect
people forever and there's some natural ingredients at
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all these stories have and so if
I'm going to start a business, I'm
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going to think about how can build
around that. Why would you not use
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that tier advantage? Yep, there's
a lot there. So enjoy the digging.
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Enjoy listening to Joseph Campbell explain things, because he is a master at
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it and he'll draw some conclusions you
maybe didn't see coming. Okay, so,
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level to content and publishing, there's
a lot here. Part of the
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unique story that you unique situation you
were placed in as someone that had a
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large twitter following already, so like
fortyzero followers. You obviously wanted to leverage
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that. How did twitter start to
fuel the podcast? And then what is
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the podcast kind of be come from
there? Because I think that from twitter
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to podcast and beyond is an interesting
jumping off point for us. Sure,
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so David had a lot of so
this is like an like, you know,
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an exercise of like thinking. This
is the fun part of marketing.
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Is like, okay, I got
to achieve this goal. How am I
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going to do that? Well,
didn't really have a budget. We raised
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a bunch of money, but they're
like, you don't have a budget yet
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and no product yet. Right,
no product it. So we had lots
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of money in the bank, but
it wasn't to be used to to play
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marketing. They were like figure it
out without money and then you might get
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some money later. And so it's
like okay, well, what are the
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ingredients? And one of the things
that they bet on was like David's social
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following. However, it wasn't like, oh, he just tweets out a
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link to a drift Webinar and like
people sign up and like that's how the
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business was built. Is like people, people don't want to just be sold
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to and then they don't want promotional
stuff. And so with him it was
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like wow, just seeing the stuff
he would put out. He'd always wanted
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to question beliefs and share interesting takes, and so his twitter was what had
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grown. First we started the podcast
basically off of twitter, because he had
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this idea. He's like, I
want to do a podcast. You know,
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he's obsessed with learning and all the
stuff, and he had this he's
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like, I want to start this
podcast called seeking wisdom, where I talked
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about books and I talked about,
you know, lessons from building the company
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and whatever, rants on marketing and
sales and and so I was like great,
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I'll help you do the podcast.
I know how to do it,
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I got gear. Let's go.
So and he had already been tweeting a
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bunch, and so we were like
in any had followers, and so I
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was like, okay, just here's
a topic that like kind of took off
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on twitter. Let's make that your
first podcast episode. But he went into
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the room. He would try to
record it by himself and he's like,
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I can't, I can't just sit
in here by myself and like talk,
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and I didn't want to insert myself
like this random twenty year old marketer in
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my late twenties, like I'm not
gonna be like, let me be your
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cohost. Man Like it, because
they who wants to hear for me.
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So I end up starting to just
try to interview him because I'm like,
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let me interview you about this topic
and we'll cut me out and make it.
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But our conversations became very like real
and I was learning from him and
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we're at different points of our career, and so were we ended up like
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creating this podcast and calling and seeking
wisdom and launching and we interview each other
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and it was driven by twitter because
he already had that audience there. We
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had a sense of like what topics
people are interested in, and so in
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the book I talked about like I
don't talk about Tick Tock, I don't
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talk about instagram and talk about Youtube. I'm the biggest believer in all those
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platforms, but from from building your
brand as a founder, I just think
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that the twitter and Linkedin give you
the best opportunity to succeed, because it's
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all you need to be successful as
text. You can post often, you
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can get really quick feedback, and
so, like with David likes through twitter.
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Then he would post like a eat
would he would send me. Like
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on Instagram he post a picture of
like a book he was reading and like
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twenty people message him and they're like
what book is this and he's like we
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should do book reviews. Awesome.
So we we started doing book reviews and
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the book reviews started to become really
popular. They're like our most popular episodes.
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We we felt that when we did
a book review we would get the
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most DMS and reviews and emails after
that. And so the stuff that I'm
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talking about right now, this is
like the whole book. This is what
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the book is about. It is
and this is what people don't understand.
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It's like there's not some spreadsheet,
there's not some like one metric. It's
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like so much of the value about
being on social media and and and and
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becoming a publisher like this is this
feeling. Is like there wasn't some spreadsheet
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like number analysis that said, like
do more podcasts about books. It was
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like when we did one, we
got more responses like, Holy Shit,
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let's do more book content. And
I think the cool part that we got
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to feel was because he already had
that audience built up on social media,
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we're able to get like feedback on
those ideas quickly. And when I talk
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about getting feedback on ideas, I
don't mean that you're like going to social
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media and like asking necessary like Hey, what should I do a podcast on?
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But when he shared like his daily
routine and how he you know,
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he does X, Y Z,
he got a bunch of more messages and
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than usual. Okay, can we
take that into and make it into something
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more, and I think that's like
this. The really powerful part about social
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media is that you can, you
can message test really quickly without having to
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spend a dollar and without even have
to do it like consciously and you kind
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of get direct feedback from your dream
customers and then you can use that as
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a indicator to go and create other
things. And so then we did the
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podcast. We turned twitter into a
podcast basically, and then from seeking wisdom
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our podcast, we did, however, many episodes of that we could see
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the different topics that were popular and
look at look at it on a bigger
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scale. And so then we wanted
to do an event. And so when
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we went to do the event,
not that it was perfect, but we
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had a better sense of like what
things people would be interested in because we'd
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already even publishing on these on these
other channels, and we built smaller audiences
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on other channels. And so I'd
much rather be in that situation then like
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here's an ex budget for event,
figure out what to program the event and
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hope it hope that it works.
Like I'm kind of betting on on like
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things that we've already tested in some
in some way, and I think a
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lot of people just don't understand that
it. It doesn't have to be some
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like scientific test that you're doing.
Like content creation is ultimately about. It's
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a little art in science and you
got to be able to be there,
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and it's why I talk about you
can't just outsource social media to your to
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the intern is, because you have
to be there, like in the comments
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in your inbox, feeling it lit, hearing the podcast reviews, seeing what
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people are saying. That's when everything
clicks. I talked to a CEO last
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week who's a super analytical CEO,
and he's like, I've been doing our
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podcast for sixty seven episodes. I
couldn't tell you, Roy, but every
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day he's like, we can never
stop doing this podcast because every week I'm
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getting an email, I'm getting an
Intro, and so he's someone who,
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like typically, would have normally analyze
the hell out of that podcast. He's
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like no, I just I know
that it's working because I'm doing it,
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I'm on social media, I'm seeing
the inbound stuff that's coming back from it.
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I think that's why it's such a
important part that, like, you're
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actually there. It's not the the
the advice in this book is not like
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hey, write a bunch of content, schedule and buffer and like you will
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build a brand. That's not that's
not what it is. You have to
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be there for the whole part.
Hey, everybody Olivia here. As a
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member of the sweet fish sales team. I wanted to take a second and
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share something that makes us insanely more
efficient. Our team uses lead Iq.
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So for those of you who are
in sales or sales ups, let me
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give you some context. You know
how long gathering contact data can take so
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long, and with lead Iq,
what once took us four hours to do
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now takes us just one. That
is seventy five percent more efficient. We
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are so much quicker withoutbound prospecting and
organizing our campaigns is so much easier than
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before. I suggest you guys check
it out as well. You can find
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them at lead iqcom. That's L
EA D iqcom. Already, let's jump
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back into the show. It's resonance. That's the word that kept just going
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off in my head while you're saying
that, because when you're actually in the
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space, you know what's resonating with
other people. And then, I mean
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any good marketer, but any any
empathetic, normal human, but I'm right,
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just starts to see, oh,
like this is, this is a
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conversation that resonates with people, and
let's go further down this road together and
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we can create even more helpful content. What do you think, from the
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days of seeking wisdom, was the
biggest lesson you learned? Dave, there
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are many. Just give me like
the first one that comes to mind.
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I think the power of authenticity in
marketing and the power of nondirect mart it's
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really like the power of nondirect marketing
channels when you do them right, if
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I can explain that. What I
mean is like, if we set out
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to start a podcast that was going
to fuel our first a hundred sales,
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drift sales like it would have failed. It wouldn't have because what with strategy
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you'd have to take to do that
would not help you actually attract any customers
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or be interesting. But it was
because it was like this, this thing
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was completely separate. It was like
the CEO wanted to do a podcast,
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so we're doing a podcast. Nobody's
spreadsheeting this, and that's why it was
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good, because it was never like
we got this many at downloads last week
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and so we need to do this. It was like we had a great
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topic, we had chemistry, we
had engaged listeners and we did it because
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it was interesting content and we enjoyed
doing it, and that worked to by
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the way, these people happen to
be associated with this company, drift.
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When we go to sell something later
there are going to going to know,
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like and trust us. And so
the hard part about, like writing about
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social media and content is that a
lot of people take this advice and they
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just like what you say matters and
the strategy used to create that content matters.
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And so it's not like, yeah, if you, Hey, you,
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if you're just promoting your own webinars
a bunch on your podcast and you're
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wondering why nobody's listening and you're not
getting the same reaction that seeking wisdom did,
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that I could tell you why.
Wrong. Heart wrong, why wrong
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starting place? I mean it is, it's non transferable, right like that's
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those are things that resonate at a
deeper level that. Yeah, we all
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know podcasts or content we've consumed.
That's like in the Bob Space. That
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clearly had a motive behind it to
get just get the sale and you're not
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going to engage with it. I've
been there, I've done that, I
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do that and that's okay. But
I think like what actually works to if
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you really want to grow something,
is is to separate those things and it
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just gets hard because you get inside
of a company and you got all these
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competing priorities and and this and that. But I also think like people don't
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take a step back and say,
like, hold on, which of the
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let's use podcasting acts as an example, like which of the pot? Like
402
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I got a lot of things going
on. which in the podcast do I
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actually listen to? Okay, these
two, and why? And I think
404
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so often we just like get in
this like cycle, just like creating more
405
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stuff, verse thinking about the Hook, and it seems still to be like
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on a marketing pockets and be like
think about the hook. But why?
407
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Why is somebody actually going to take
an hour out of their day and listen
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to like the B toob growth podcast
or whatever? I think when we created
409
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.319
seeking wisdom, it was like very
selfish. Is Like we're helping people get
410
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.240
smarter, get better, and we're
having fun doing it, and I think
411
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.920
that's what creates an actual connection.
And so, whether you sell to finance
412
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:32.039
or HR or sales or cyber security
or whatever, it's like before like think
413
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:36.720
about what if you had a dream
budget and dream dream budget, Dream Team,
414
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:41.519
dream whatever, and the mission was
like create the number one thing for
415
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.759
these people. What would you create
and how would you do it? Because
416
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.160
it wouldn't be the like. Well, every third episode we're actually going to
417
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.559
sprinkle in a product demo because a
sales team would really like that. Really,
418
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.440
that's not your favorite podcast? That
sounds like mine. How about after
419
00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:00.519
the ten episode, we can't we
get email address is from all these listeners
420
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.599
and can we just sell to to
like we could just put them, you
421
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.319
know, send them a invite to
next webinar. And I'm not mocking,
422
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.640
like I've done all those things.
And sometimes you do. Hey, you
423
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.480
do act like you want to keep
your job, you want to get promoted.
424
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:15.359
I like I struggle with some.
Sometimes marketing advice becomes a little bit
425
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.680
like holier than now. It's like, look, I want to drive business
426
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:23.240
results and revenue from marketing, but
I'm talking about like it's not surprising that
427
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:29.319
most of these things don't take off
for companies when they're rooted in that right
428
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.680
and that this is a different strategy
of that can work, but it's just
429
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.200
deeper in the funnel and it's a
different, different place, different different time,
430
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.200
different place. HMM. I want
to go back to something you said
431
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.119
earlier before we move on, because
you mentioned twitter and Linkedin as good starting
432
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:47.680
places, simply because it's written.
Word. I would have imagined any sort
433
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:52.519
of approach like this where a founder
is extremely public like that. I mean
434
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.759
even being on a podcast, if
it's just audio, like maybe more founders
435
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.720
would be into that, but it
could feel like it's a certain personality type
436
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.440
thing. But you would say even
on twitter and Linkedin, like get to
437
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.759
publishing, even if it's just written
and it's not video, like. You
438
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.599
would encourage that, right. Have
you ever seen Darmesh from hup spot?
439
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.960
HMM, you know he is.
Yeah, I do. He will tell
440
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.960
you and everything. He's like,
I'm the most introverted person ever. That
441
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:22.599
guy is prolific on social media.
Yep, and that's one. The other
442
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.599
thing is, like, if you're
the founder of this company, you're probably,
443
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.880
I would hope, communicating a lot
internally, the a email, via
444
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.160
slack, via Wiki va or whatever, writing to investors, like you are.
445
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:37.440
You are doing that in some form, and so sure you don't have
446
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.799
to be like you and me and
be comfortable on camera and doing a podcast,
447
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.079
but I would say that you're probably, because I'm also not talking about
448
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.359
like writing fiction novels, right,
like I'm saying, like take, what
449
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.519
I'm saying is like the stuff that
you're already writing about most of the time
450
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.039
is going to be interesting at help
and be helpful to build your credibility and
451
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:03.079
trust as a brand. Okay,
so, if you were starting from scratch
452
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.200
right now, what would you prioritize? What would be the questions that you're
453
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.519
asking yourself, like Dave Care Heart
one point, oh, all over again.
454
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.759
What what comes to mind? If
this is actually right now, right
455
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:21.200
now, I would prioritize tick tock
a hundred percent, especially in B tob
456
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:23.400
and if I had more time right
now, I would do it. But
457
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:29.759
I'm I think it's a perfect example
of like what content or people obsessed with
458
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.480
and really interested in, and what
content is like most of the music that
459
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:36.799
people are listening today is is like
debuting on Tick Tock. Like what?
460
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.319
What's The music that's popular right now? Is Popular because of tick tocks with
461
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:41.839
then, no, I don't need
I'm not like, I'm not trying to
462
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.519
be like Gary V and, like, you know, explain how how important
463
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.319
tick tock is, but what I'm
saying is, like I think it is
464
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.920
that and it's still nobody's using it
in a be to be per in a
465
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.880
be to be context, and so
like. If I was a be to
466
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:59.200
be start up right now or something, I would, I think, first,
467
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.680
beyond my advice ice in the book, is like where the what platforms
468
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.559
can you be successful on? and
to me that starts with, like,
469
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:10.240
what are the opportunities in my industry? And if nobody's doing it, could
470
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:12.960
you build an audience faster there than
on other channels? And then the second
471
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.039
order from there would be like,
but what are my natural strengths and talents
472
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:22.599
and do I have the means to
be successful, like on that channel,
473
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.200
right, and so like, if
you have no budget, then like,
474
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:27.680
are you going to be able to
spend five grand a month and have a
475
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:33.079
video producer like make make fifty videos
for you and create tick tocks off?
476
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.039
Probably not. And so what?
Where can you get the most amount of
477
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.200
feedback the fastest? And that that
is why I say, like, you
478
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.880
know, twitter and Linkedin, because
I think you can build up. The
479
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.799
barrier entry is so low that might
take you a while to build up a
480
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:48.680
following, but like the distance between, like you signing up, you signing
481
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.759
up for twitter and writing your first
tweet is probably much shorter than like you
482
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.880
come creating a company, Tick Tock, channel and like and creating your first
483
00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.200
video. Yeah, most feedback fastest. I like that. Yeah, most
484
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:04.519
feedback fastest. That's the advantage in
marketing. That's like the game. That's,
485
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:08.279
to me, like the powerful thing
about have about building audience and and
486
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.119
online marketing days, the quicker you
can get feedback, you can understand what
487
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.839
to do and what and what not
to do and what people interested in.
488
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.799
Well, as we start to wrap
up, anything else you want to highlight
489
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.880
from this strategy, any let kind
of last words before before we close it
490
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.920
out here. No, close it
out. I'm ready for whatever you want
491
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.000
to talk about. Close it out. All right. Well, beside checking
492
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.680
out the book, Dave, where
should people stay connected to you? And,
493
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:34.160
yeah, give us, give us
a rundown. People get the book
494
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.880
on Amazon. Some people they light's
ridiculous. I they launch books and they
495
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.519
have like a hundred reviews on launch
day and I should you still on the
496
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.480
review thing. I'm still on that. I love it. I love this
497
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.960
whole conversation. He's he's just been
in his head about those reviews and in
498
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.079
book, the Second Book, I'm
fine with how many I have. That's
499
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.039
not the issue. I'm just like
I feel like I as a marketer.
500
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.279
The the marketer and me, was
like I missed the key. I missed
501
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.079
a key ingredient before launched. Dang
it, and I but that's okay.
502
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:06.720
It's kind of good to hear you
say like, Oh, I missed something,
503
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.680
because I'm sure for other people like
Oh, that's it's kind of Nice
504
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.200
to see you. It's into scen
area. He can affert one. I
505
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.799
miss so many things because anybody that's
actually work with me will know I am
506
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.319
the least like system process, like
playbook, and like through launching the book.
507
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:28.079
I work with a company, obviously
to like create the book part of
508
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.920
it, because I'm not a logistics
expert and all that. But like they
509
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:34.039
were really kept checking in, like
hey, you know, what's your marketing
510
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:36.000
strategy for this going to be by
B Blah, and I was like,
511
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.119
I am going to send out a
couple of emails about it, like leading
512
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:42.759
up to the book, and if
I get out of any other ideas,
513
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.079
like I might just do them.
Like I'm very like spontaneous and so like
514
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:50.319
I bought some billboards one time and
then like I went for like four weeks
515
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.319
without talking about the book and then
I was like, Oh, shoot,
516
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.079
book lunch is coming up, I
should talk about it more. So I
517
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:59.079
wish I was like that, that
planned out and had like this like spreadget
518
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.880
of all this stuff that I but
I don't and I'm just lucky that we've
519
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:06.519
we've got here. So we've gotten
here so far. Yeah, I I
520
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:08.920
love when people sort of not I
mean, obviously it's more than this,
521
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:14.319
but like stumbling into something is a
big part of marketing, right like this.
522
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.640
That's what you were just saying about
seeking like seeing wisdom. Like that
523
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:22.039
whole podcast is you stumbling into an
opportunity with conversation that then turns into something
524
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.680
more and then you just see it
and go for it. So that's awesome
525
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:28.799
and I love it. But it
also speaks to like it also speaks like
526
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.640
what we talked about in the book. Like I've built up a small audience
527
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.799
and that's the people that I wrote
the book for and I figured that they
528
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:37.200
would buy the book. And so
if those people are already on my email
529
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.279
list, the people that I want
to buy the book are the ones on
530
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:43.880
my email list. I I don't
I don't care about selling x million copies
531
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:45.480
of the book. Like I wanted
to create a book for the people that
532
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:50.039
for those people, and I didn't
send send them an email about it,
533
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.599
like I wish. I wish there's
some crazy like marketing chatty behind it,
534
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.839
but there's not. Well, you
have it, I think, in the
535
00:33:54.839 --> 00:34:00.119
correct order and because, I mean
I also I talked to smath Ors,
536
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.960
I talked to a lot of different
people, but people come out with books
537
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.480
in order to, Oh my God, things that they feel like are attached
538
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:10.559
versus. What I would commend you
on is when you do in this order,
539
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.719
where it's like Hey, I'm got
this thing that I've already done and
540
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:19.119
I know I have some followers who
would really benefit from this additional resource.
541
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.280
It changes the mindset and again,
it keeps your why pure, and that's
542
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.599
the same with a podcast world,
where it's like, if you want to
543
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:30.440
successfully focus on your content, then
can't have it out of order. So
544
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.280
we're like reinforcing our whole conversation.
Well, yeah, and like what's cooled,
545
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:37.920
like yeah, which you just broke
down and says like why we've connected
546
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.679
on this. It like that says
that's really what the book is about.
547
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.239
Hmm, is like you doing that, and so, like whatever I want
548
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.039
to do, if I want to
build a golf company and sell golf products
549
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.599
in the future, I think my
belief at least, is that the best
550
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.119
way to do that would be like
first build an audience, and so I'm
551
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:57.960
going to I would start with content
and like two years before I'd have the
552
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:00.800
the podcast and everything. And so, yeah, which is so funny,
553
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.800
you mentioned that some someone Dm to
me in you know, whatever you get
554
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:07.519
in your twitter GM's, and someone
DM knew is like, I have a
555
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.239
question about you know, how much
money do you make off this book?
556
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:13.800
And I was like, first of
all, the happens all the time,
557
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:16.440
nothing new. Yeah, hell,
Hey, what's your how do you parent
558
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.800
your second child, like anyway or
whatever? That would there. What's your
559
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:25.280
social sucreer number? But this this
person said, I how much money did
560
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.519
you make off the book? And
he wasn't asking for a dollar around.
561
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:30.239
He just has like Oh, it's
a hundred percent. I've self publishing it,
562
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.679
so it's so it's mine. He's
like awesome, yeah, I'm just
563
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:36.400
you know, I'm really thinking about
book building as like a revenue strategy and
564
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:38.199
I was like, well, look, if you want to make money,
565
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:43.559
don't. Don't write a book like
the book. Would not be the strategy
566
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.920
to do it. I was like
the only reason why I was able to
567
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:50.280
sell books, and I don't even
care if I sell books beyond this point,
568
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:52.239
like I've sold a bunch of books
already to that existing audience. That's
569
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.800
why I wrote the book. And
I was like, you know, focus
570
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:59.920
on building an audience. Like the
thing that allowed me to have the book
571
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.960
to sell was building an audience.
This is also a business book. This
572
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.639
is also business book. Would that? Should that? Would that be the
573
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.199
strategy if you were an amazing writer
and you were writing a novel or some
574
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.840
fiction book? No, it's it's
different. But but I think in this
575
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.119
context, building the the audience first, and I'd even talked about in the
576
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.400
book how much I was able to
like pressure test some of the ideas,
577
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.960
including the title, including the you
know, Tim Ferris talked about like early
578
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.480
and like the four hour work week, where he used to use like early
579
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.039
days of like add words when it
was like really easy to tell he would.
580
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:37.159
He used add words like test titles
of his books. MMM, and
581
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.039
what's even cooler about that now is
like now tim has a humongous audience.
582
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.360
He can basically fool prove any idea
he wants to do in the future by
583
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.000
just learning through the community, and
I did that in a very, very
584
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.079
small way with this book and I
think it's just a really powerful thing.
585
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.400
It's not go spend a million dollars
on ads to do it. It requires
586
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:59.880
like a story and creativity, and
that's the stuff that I love. The
587
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.159
tangents are my favorite part of podcasting, man. So I'm glad we went
588
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.760
there here at the end because I
think it sums up so much of the
589
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.840
heart of what we're driving at,
and so I'll just say again for people,
590
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.559
name of the book, founder,
brand, turn your story into your
591
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:16.840
competitive advantage. You can go grab
it on Amazon. Dave Garrehart, thank
592
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:21.119
you for being on BB growth.
Yeah, thanks, Benjie. It's fun.
593
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.960
You're a good host and I've enjoyed
talking you whereas having conversations like this.
594
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:28.639
So if you haven't subscribed to show
you can do that. Stay connected
595
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:30.519
to us. I would love to
hear from you have conversations on business and
596
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:36.199
marketing and life over on Linkedin and
keep doing work that matters. Will be
597
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:51.920
back real soon with another episode.
For BB marketing leaders, it can sometimes
598
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:53.719
feel like you're on an island.
Now more than ever, it's important for
599
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:59.599
us to be connected with our peers
enter marketing squad. It's the sweet fish
600
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.880
take on community and it offers be
to be marketing leaders an opportunity to share
601
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.519
and grow. Learn more by reaching
out to our community manager, Diana Mitchell
602
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:15.440
at Diana dot Mitchell at sweet fish
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