Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880
Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth.
2
00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.679
Hey, friends, Benji here,
and James and Dan are joining me for
3
00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:25.320
today's original research episode. And guys, I wanna you to just kind of
4
00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:30.039
maybe close your eyes and imagine something
as we start this episode. Imagine you
5
00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:35.520
are with in in a room with
a hundred marketing leaders that you admire.
6
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:39.200
There are all these great individuals we've
had the privilege maybe of getting to chat
7
00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:42.759
with even here on B two B
growth, and we gather them all in
8
00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:45.960
a room. You're invited, you
get to walk up to a mix that's
9
00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:50.719
in the center of the room and
you get to pose one question at the
10
00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.320
room and they're all gonna give you
their advice, they're all going to get
11
00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:59.240
to chime in and help you,
but you have one question. What would
12
00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:03.079
the question be? Dan, I'm
throwing this to you first. What do
13
00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:07.840
you got? We've done so much
original research that I actually have a lot
14
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.319
of great answers to the most important
questions. But honestly, there's one question
15
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.840
that I don't think we've asked well
enough, and that this would be the
16
00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:18.640
one question I would ask the crowd. Is, what are you the most
17
00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:23.519
excited about when it comes to marketing
right now, just to get a sense
18
00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:29.760
of what's captured my peers imaginations,
what's giving them hope right now, because
19
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.560
we know their struggles, but what's
keeping them in the game, that's got
20
00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:36.359
them the most excited about right now? It would be interesting to hear their
21
00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:40.519
collective responses and group them into a
few categories as far as like, what
22
00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:45.560
are they hoping to achieve over the
next like year or two at least?
23
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.640
What they'd like to even if they
can't do it because their boss thinks it's
24
00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:51.640
done. Like what do they want
to do? I like that too,
25
00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:56.640
because excitement gives you fuel. So
then you like you get that hope in
26
00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:57.840
you and you're like, Oh yeah, that could be cool, or I
27
00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.040
imagine this future now because they said
this like that would just be a great
28
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.039
momentum exercise. If you want to
leave like ready to run through a wall,
29
00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:09.560
James, what about you? What
would be the question you'd ask?
30
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:14.439
I think it would be a question
that we've asked in our original research,
31
00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.680
but because the timing for when we
did this was was, you know,
32
00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:23.319
back in one and this stuff is
always evolving, I just think knowing who
33
00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:30.199
is influencing their work the most.
I think that's something that I probably would
34
00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.080
want to have a finger on the
pulse of. Every six months or so,
35
00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:36.319
we know we're going to hear the
Dave gearharts, the Chris Walkers of
36
00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.439
the world, you're gonna hear Seth
Godin, but figuring out who is actually
37
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:45.639
influencing our buyer a room full of
B two B marketers as we start to
38
00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:50.000
develop, like how can we do? How can we do creative collaborations through
39
00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:53.319
B two B growth with those creators? What can we learn from how they're
40
00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.960
creating content? Are there ways for
us to to pay them for their time
41
00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.479
to create content for how can we
partner and collaborate with those folks that who
42
00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.879
already have the attention of the folks
that we're trying to reach? I think
43
00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.759
that's always going to be a really
highly leveraged question when we get in scenarios
44
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:14.800
like that. That's a fun question
to ask, as I've been doing original
45
00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:17.159
research even for this next round,
and you hear a lot of also like
46
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:22.400
peer you know, I bounced this
off of this person that I met at
47
00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.800
this networking event that's become a good
friend of mine it's like there's some interesting
48
00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:29.680
angles there and then there's obviously those
individuals that are just like incredible thought leaders
49
00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:34.599
and they're doing an amazing creative work. So the question I would ask is
50
00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:38.680
very it's it's just timely to things
I've been thinking about lately and it also
51
00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:43.280
springs off of a couple of B
two B growth episode interviews I've had done
52
00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:49.479
recently. I'm very interested in how
product and marketing work together. So the
53
00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.840
question that I wrote it down as
how have you created alignment and momentum between
54
00:03:53.919 --> 00:04:00.280
product and marketing, because, especially
as you scale the mess, do you
55
00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.240
want to tell people versus what you're
actually offering? All these things like it's
56
00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:10.120
in very interesting relationship and it could
be, I think, a massive catalyst
57
00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.479
for organizational growth, but it's also
one of those things you's just like constantly
58
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.240
managing. What does it look like
to have that relationship really survive? And
59
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:21.560
so that's that's where I I go
with it to give quick context to all
60
00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:27.759
of our listeners. In real life
we did ask a hundred marketing leaders fifteen
61
00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:30.920
questions and one of them was this
exact question. So we're like hey,
62
00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:36.079
what would you want to ask a
hundred of your your peers and uh,
63
00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:42.160
we've also asked several other questions and
we've done episodes just like this that you
64
00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.959
can go back in the feed and
find. We asked questions like the marketing
65
00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.079
channel. You can't overlook who's the
marketing influencer. You're most influenced by.
66
00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.879
What's the most overrated trend in B
two B marketing? So you can go
67
00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.319
back in in the feed and you
can find all those episodes and take a
68
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.959
listen. But when we asked question, if you could ask one question to
69
00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:05.040
a hundred of your peers in B
Two b marketing leadership, what question would
70
00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:10.720
you ask? Here's what our survey
results found. Before I give you the
71
00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:14.360
three most common let me give you
just the one off questions that were posed
72
00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.720
that I think are excellent and I'd
love to hear them discussed more by marketing
73
00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:23.240
leadership. But these are I would
say there's some success questions and some internal
74
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.639
marketing and evolution questions. So how
do you spend your day? People just
75
00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.120
want to know straight up, like
how do you spend your time and how
76
00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.879
do you define success? Like paint
the picture of the wind for me.
77
00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.279
How does your CEO define success?
In fact, James, we included this
78
00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.920
one when we started original research for
the second round. You wanted that question
79
00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:47.199
included because knowing what they measure,
what the CEO measures, is super important.
80
00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.160
How would you how would you answer
that, James, like how do
81
00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:57.639
you define marketing success right now?
I think I define marketing success by like,
82
00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.120
are we building affinity, and so
are we seeing things like people post
83
00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:06.040
about the content we're creating on Linkedin? Are there sharing this stuff we're doing
84
00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:11.079
on our self reported attribution? When
they come inbound, are they talking about
85
00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.680
how much they love are our paid
ads or our brand or whatever it is
86
00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.199
that brought them in? Those affinity
keywords for me. So that's that's a
87
00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.480
softer way of looking at it.
Ultimately, you know, it's are we
88
00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:25.519
driving pipeline? I mean, we
don't have an outbound shop here, we
89
00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:29.680
don't have an outbound motion, so
everything that we get is coming to US
90
00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:34.920
inbound, and so is that inbound
deal flow accelerating and are those deals moving
91
00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:40.000
through our pipeline in a timely manner
that we need them to? So those
92
00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:45.079
are some of the more quantitative things, but qualitatively I'm really looking at signs
93
00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.639
from the market that we're building affinity. Yeah, it's interesting because we asked
94
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.439
and the answer to that question was
pipeline. So then we had to go
95
00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:57.040
back in the next round of original
research and go like, okay, but
96
00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:05.560
how does your organization define qualified pipeline
like that conversation has been really interesting and
97
00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:10.680
well I'm sure we'll talk about that
in the future original research episode. We
98
00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:14.720
also had a lot of questions come
in. Marketers want to know like essentially
99
00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.319
internal marketing questions. How do you
execute internal marketing? How would you align
100
00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:23.920
the entire organizations to your message?
How do you get feedback from customers?
101
00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:27.519
Where are you spending your money most
effectively? That would be a great one.
102
00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.959
I love just breakdowns of campaigns that
are really working, the the R
103
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.199
O I people are getting from those
things. How do you best support your
104
00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:38.639
sales team? So again, there's
just like so many questions here that people
105
00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:42.759
have, and then the three most
common. This is what I wanted to
106
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.319
ultimately drive us to. I would
say, if you're bucketing this, it's
107
00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:50.600
priorities, it's attribution and it's content. That's what people have questions about.
108
00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:57.240
So the most common question was what
do you prioritize what's working with regards to
109
00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.360
channel strategies and tools, and then
we heard a lot of questions around attribution.
110
00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.480
What do you actually measure and how
do you think about what? You
111
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:09.800
attribute it to? M Q LS, SQL type stuff, and then several
112
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.839
answers around content. Well, it's
funny because they're not answers their questions.
113
00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:20.360
Several questions around content. So when
you hear that James Bucketing it into priorities,
114
00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:24.560
attribution, content, anything that really
sticks out at you right away.
115
00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:31.680
So I think as I look through
these, people love to know what's working.
116
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.639
And so when we've talked before about
like what's what's working for us on
117
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.159
Linkedin, Nick Biddett, we just
did an episode with him or about him.
118
00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:45.000
We've done one with him recently and
then we did one about him a
119
00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.200
few days ago that just dropped in
our Echo Chamber series where we talked about
120
00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:52.360
how he got roasted on Linkedin for
talking about this tactic that he deployed.
121
00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:58.600
But I think people people loved it
because he shared something very, very tactical.
122
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.200
He was sharing something that he did
to drive a lot of g two
123
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:07.000
reviews for for their product and some
people would say, you know, got
124
00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.840
loud and said that it wasn't ethical
what he did. We did an episode
125
00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:11.960
about it. I don't think that
what he did was unethical at all,
126
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:18.039
but because he actually shared what he
was doing, the post blew up and
127
00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:22.279
people love that kind of tactical what
is actually working, and that's supported here
128
00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:24.799
in the research that we did.
People want to know what their peers are
129
00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.279
doing, what is specifically working and
not working, so that they can learn
130
00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.240
from those mistakes, because we're all
just out here, seemingly on an island,
131
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.559
trying to figure it out for ourselves, and we don't have to be
132
00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.279
Yep, even when you take get
outside of B two B for a second,
133
00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.519
think of like artists that you like, music that you enjoy, someone
134
00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:50.559
like a Charlie Peuth or Seawan Mendez, like they show like behind the scenes
135
00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:54.519
stuff on Tiktok, specifically Charlie puth. He does videos where he's literally like,
136
00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.600
Oh, I turned on a light
switch and now I'm making a whole
137
00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.159
song using the sound from the switch, and people eat up the tiktok video
138
00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:07.080
because it's the behind the scenes content
that people really love. So you can
139
00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:13.120
build entire like linked in videos and
posts and all these like organic posts that
140
00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:16.679
you want to create around what's working
for you right now? What's the problem
141
00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.720
you had before that this helped solve? Like bringing that all to the table
142
00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:26.960
and allowing some vulnerability is a really
important thing. And I don't even say
143
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.320
as we've done interviews, I often
ask like if you were going to start
144
00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.200
a show, what would it be
about? People want to know what failures
145
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:43.720
other marketers have experienced, what campaigns
totally flopped. Those are the recurring conversations
146
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.399
people want, because marketing can be
so shiny that if we never do behind
147
00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:50.600
the scenes type content, we people
are like, Oh, all right,
148
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:52.879
well, it looks like they're doing, you know, great stuff over there
149
00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.679
and really working on it. It's
just like it's this okay, cool,
150
00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.200
you're you're so shiny that I can't
relate and I love that. It's like,
151
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.600
Oh yeah, we're gonna share what's
working. We're also gonna just share
152
00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:07.480
real life, like behind the scenes
content. People will will eat that up.
153
00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:09.799
I think I love going back and
looking. I did this exercise a
154
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.679
few weeks ago. I went I
went back and I just started looking at
155
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.720
all of Dave Gerhart's linkedin posts because
it seemed like everything I saw in my
156
00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.879
feed from him had like thousands of
engagements and I was like, what the
157
00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.519
what is in this guy's water that
everything he posts is just going viral?
158
00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.919
And I looked back and that was
not the story at all. Like when
159
00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.000
you actually go back into as activity
and he's just posting a lot. He's
160
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.120
put I think at the time that
I looked he was posting like two or
161
00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.480
three, sometimes four times a day
and a lot of his content had little
162
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:45.919
to no engagement. But the stuff
that I obviously saw my feed had a
163
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.080
ton of it. And so he's
just throwing a lot of bait into the
164
00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.360
water consistently, and when you're putting
more bait into the water, you're gonna
165
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:56.720
catch more fish. And so it's
no wonder that he is now a masked
166
00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.399
I think I think he's over a
hundred and fifty thousand followers on Linkedin.
167
00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:03.240
Now you're just putting a whole lot
of bait in the water and some stuff
168
00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.159
sticks, some stuff doesn't. But
it was actually really encouraging to me to
169
00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.240
go and look at that, to
go not every single thing that I post
170
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:11.840
needs to pop off. I just
gotta put more out there. Yep,
171
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.000
yeah, and it's it's that being
curious and like what you were. You
172
00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.519
weren't even doing that, James,
by going and researching what worked for him.
173
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.879
You know that curiosity. Having a
list of questions you're currently asking to
174
00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.519
become a better marketer, to be
better at your job. That's such a
175
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.559
soft skill of curiosity is vital.
That's why I love asking marketers. What
176
00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:39.159
questions are you asking right now?
B Two, B growth will be right
177
00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.879
back. There are a lot of
questions on marketers minds right now, and
178
00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:48.360
analyzing the latest trends can be a
full time job in itself. Can an
179
00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.399
a R filter really improved brand awareness? Why are streaming ads so allowed?
180
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:58.200
What do viewers really think about shoppable
ads? Marketing Brew Does the hard work
181
00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.720
for you, dropping a quick to
read need free newsletter in your inbox every
182
00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:07.480
weekday, covering essential topics, from
influencers and advertising to social media and more.
183
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:11.759
Marketing Group never misses a beat.
Get The answers you've been looking for,
184
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.320
along with the ones you haven't even
thought of yet. Upgrade your game
185
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.360
alongside a growing community of over two
hundred and sixty five thousand marketing professionals.
186
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:24.639
Check it out by clicking the link
in our show notes. Right now,
187
00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.279
the soft skill of curiosity is vital. That's why I love asking marketers what
188
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.720
questions are you asking right now?
Another thing that came up quite a bit
189
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:41.519
that I thought was interesting is just
people want to know about internal dynamics.
190
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.000
There's just like okay, so how
do you relate as a marketing leader to
191
00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.000
the C suite? What are those
conversations like? How do you prove your
192
00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.039
value? How do you prove your
words like? That's why attribution comes up
193
00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:56.399
quite a bit too, is because
it's one of the things that you report
194
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.480
up to the C suite and they
want to know what channels are working,
195
00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:03.200
what strateg gs are working with campaigns, how that's being driven by the marketing
196
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:07.799
department, and so if you can
share, whether it's in personal just conversation,
197
00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.480
you can do so. I'm just
like, Hey, this is some
198
00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:15.000
of the meetings that work best for
us, but knowing what other organizations are
199
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:20.200
doing between marketing in the C suite. People love want to know market other
200
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.879
marketing. UH companies want to want
to know. So that was that was
201
00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:26.159
a big, big one that that
stood out to me. Dan, how
202
00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:30.440
about you? Another thing people are
asking a lot about is what other marketers
203
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:35.240
doing around attribution, because again it
comes back to that theme of what works.
204
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.799
Marketers want to know what's works.
So they want to know what other
205
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.720
marketers are doing for marketing attribution.
And it's sad, and we cover this
206
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.639
a lot in the last episode,
like how I view attribution, because to
207
00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.639
me it's kind of like, Oh, yeah, you talk to customers,
208
00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.559
you survey customers and you use marketing
attribution to tell you kind of all the
209
00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.399
pieces of the story for you to
inform your your choices. But I think
210
00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.799
a lot of people are looking for
like how do you craft something to kind
211
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.240
of give you this silver bullet,
like how do you know empirically that it's
212
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.679
going to work? I think people
are looking for and it's probably because marketers
213
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.679
are being asked that I've known.
I've had a CFO stare me in the
214
00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.080
face and be like show me with
empirical evidence. It's very CFO word right.
215
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.960
It's where I got it from,
that this is the thing that's going
216
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.879
to work. Marketers are being asked
tough questions from C suite officers in order
217
00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.480
to know that it's going to drive
the results they want. The problem is
218
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.600
it's never a perfect game. To
me, a much more interesting question is
219
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.519
what's could be working that we're not
even doing. That's much harder to figure
220
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:41.000
out. Like what's the process other
marketers are using in order to test new
221
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.600
things, in order to find where
you haven't even dug for oil yet,
222
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.159
you know because what's working? It's
it's as simple. That's just going to
223
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.279
talking new customers that sign up and
putting out some like where'd you hear about
224
00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.559
as fields on your forms? Like
that's that's much easier to set up some
225
00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.159
systems for them to constantly glean that
information. But finding out what could be
226
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:02.519
working but you're not currently doing.
Oh, that's what I like to know
227
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.080
from other marketers. One of the
things that I think about, Benji is,
228
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.080
as as we're looking at this,
a lot of people I had questions
229
00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:12.960
around. They wanted to know what
other marketers were doing to create quality content.
230
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.679
That that qualitative angle of it.
It's like we know how to do
231
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:19.639
it, we know the tools that
you know. I think a lot of
232
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.480
people know the tools that they need
to be able to create some of the
233
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.240
stuff, but how do you how
do you know if it's actually good?
234
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.679
And so some of the responses we
got were like, how do you keep
235
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:33.519
your marketing from being average? How
are you ensuring that you're creating empathetic thought
236
00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:38.720
leadership content? What makes great content? What content do you want to watch?
237
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.840
So those are some of the responses
that we got to this. This
238
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.240
is something that we have struggled with
as well, because we're, you know,
239
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.039
for the longest time you're on this
hamster, will have just you gotta
240
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.399
put out more content, more content, more content, more content, and
241
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:57.440
you lose sight of man, is
the stuff we're putting out there actually good?
242
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.080
And so one of the things that
kind of a mental shift that I
243
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:06.680
had to make for myself was I
need to be more involved in vetting whether
244
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.200
something is good or not, like
me as the CEO of the company,
245
00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.920
and I think that there's not a
lot of organizations, unfortunately, where the
246
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:18.880
CEO is willing to prioritize that.
But it doesn't necessarily have to be the
247
00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.440
CEO. It can be the subject
matter expert that in your organization is kind
248
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.720
of the persona for the person that
you're wanting your content to resonate with.
249
00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.920
So for us, we take Dan's
opinion very seriously. At sweet fish on.
250
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.119
Hey, is this going to actually
resonate with marketers? Because Dan was
251
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:41.119
our buyer at another at another organization
prior to joining Sweet Fish. So his
252
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:47.200
subject matter expertise is huge in determining
whether something is good enough for us to
253
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.519
post it. But it's a matter
of building. For us, it was
254
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:55.240
a matter of building a system that
allowed the person that you're trying to connect
255
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.440
with, who is that person in
your orger, get their eyes on it,
256
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.599
get their ears on it and let
them vet whether it's going to be
257
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.880
good or not and then give them
make it okay for them to say no.
258
00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.400
So this is easy for me,
is the CEO, but like it
259
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.759
was, it was still easier,
I guess I should say, because it
260
00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.680
was still tough. I mean,
the first time we really started getting into
261
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.519
the rhythm of making a lot of
these micro videos, I did one or
262
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.960
two episodes. We had a flurry
of new micro clips come in for me
263
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.880
to approve and at first I just
approved all of them and I was posting
264
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:27.680
all of them and I was like
more and more and more and more and
265
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:32.599
more, and then I just started
realizing, like man, I'm I'm watering
266
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.000
down, like I'm putting out stuff
that I'm not proud to put out,
267
00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:38.799
and so I had to go back
and get a lot more serious about saying
268
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.119
no to stuff. And it's not
the end of the world. Like I
269
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.839
just heard Gary v Actually yesterday talking
about how he goes through and and it's,
270
00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:49.680
I think, the majority of the
stuff that comes across his plate he
271
00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:52.640
says no to. He's like,
Nope, the post production team missed the
272
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:57.599
context there, they didn't emphasize the
right point in that video, and he
273
00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.519
throws out the lions share of what
his massive post production team is producing for
274
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.799
him. And that that was really
affirming for me, because we're just now
275
00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:11.079
starting to do that, to be
okay with saying nope, that clip didn't
276
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:12.559
nail it, so we're not going
to share it. But because we're posting,
277
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:18.799
because we have rhythms and systems for
creating a lot of content, we
278
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:25.240
can still we're still able to post
daily from multiple people's profiles because of the
279
00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.960
volume of we we can still say
no to a lot and still post daily,
280
00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:32.880
and so I think for us that's
that's what's worked for us and I
281
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.000
think can work for a lot of
other organizations as well. I'm glad that
282
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.480
you said that, because I think
that the rat race can feel very real
283
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.720
in content creation, where it's just
like, okay, we gotta figure out
284
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.960
the next video that we have to
like, and it's just endless. If
285
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.240
you have rhythms where pillar content is
going to be created, something is gonna
286
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.960
come from that, that's good.
But like trying to make a content calendar
287
00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.839
where it's like we're definitely gonna get
six clips from this that will be shared
288
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.720
on these days, I really think
that's what leads to commodity content. You
289
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.799
will end up in a space where
you're like, well, I guess I
290
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:08.519
just have to share this because this
is what we pulled from it, and
291
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:12.319
that's just not a great feeling,
because you're not gonna hit all home runs.
292
00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:18.839
There's no way that you're batting a
thousand in content, especially in video
293
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.200
and in podcasting. What's Nice is
it's a conversation, so the three of
294
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:26.119
us are on a long form,
you know, conversation right now, and
295
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.680
that's why people are engaging with the
podcast. They want some of this back
296
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.920
and forth. But when you're editing
it into like small clips, only going
297
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:40.079
with what actually adds value is absolutely
important. So I'm glad you said that.
298
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.920
And it's tough for us man,
I mean as a service provider,
299
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.960
a podcast agency. We're having to
really look at like how do we re
300
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.079
Orient our packages are service offering,
because if we say hey, you're gonna
301
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:57.400
get five micro videos and you're paying
for those five micro videos, but the
302
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:02.799
long form episode that we got,
there's not enough good content to make up
303
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.160
five micro videos. So we're really
starting to examine, like how do we
304
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.599
package up what we do for our
clients to keep us from putting out commodity
305
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.839
content on their behalf? Because so
that's a challenge that I'm intimately aware of
306
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.359
on two different fronts, for for
our own stuff, as we market sweet
307
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:22.480
fish, but then also for the
work that we're doing for clients. And
308
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.279
you had posed that question previously of
like pick a subject matter expert. You
309
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:33.000
know in your space that you want
to admire your content, like how would
310
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.839
they think of this right, like
how would they interact with it? Would
311
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:38.279
they talk about it at lunch because
your content you're putting out is that kind
312
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.960
of quality, like they want to
go share it with their peers? When
313
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.480
you think that way, it really
does change like Oh, should we just
314
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.480
put out a blog again this Friday, like, like how you think about
315
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.880
it, how you're educating the market, what the use of that content pieces?
316
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.799
And again it's that curiosity asking the
questions and going to people that you
317
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.880
really admiring content and like what's working
for you guys right now, like how
318
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:03.559
can we learn from that? That's
why I think this question was great,
319
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.599
because a lot of people are asking
that exact thing. Dan, anything else
320
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:07.720
here that that stands out to you? As we start to wrap up,
321
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:12.079
and I've almost become a collector of
good questions, I have a whole ever
322
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.920
note section, sorry, not ever
note section of notion, where I categorize
323
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:22.039
and collect fantastic questions. But the
best, some of the best questions,
324
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.680
I'm starting to find actually, are
the questions your ideal buyers are asking themselves,
325
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:30.799
because with those questions you can form
answers for it over and over again.
326
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:36.680
And one way I found out recently
that you can go even deeper because
327
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.559
after a while you'll find a core
group of questions and kind of have your
328
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.359
point of view on answering them and
you can turn that point of view into
329
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.359
a bunch of different say a bunch
of different ways. So that it sinks
330
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.160
in, some people still won't take
your advice even if they agree with it.
331
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.559
So what I'm starting to think about
now is, even though we have
332
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.920
our strong points of view and we're
communicating them frequently and often and people are
333
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.480
agreeing, and yet it's still not
taking action. Why? It's like a
334
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.079
whole another set of questions that's beyond
what's working for you or what's what's causing
335
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.480
you the most pain in your job
right now. If they know the answer
336
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.640
and are still not executing on it, why aren't they executing on it?
337
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.400
Is it a fear? Is it
insecurity? Is there something that's causing them
338
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.440
to hold back finding the answer?
Using those questions to go one level deeper
339
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.519
and then addressing those, even though
it probably at that point will sound a
340
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:30.440
little bit more motivational speechie at the
end of the day is probably one of
341
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.680
the best ways you can serve your
ideal buyers is to get to the root
342
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.599
of the issue why they're not successful. I think that's that's why Gary V
343
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.839
is blowing up continues to blow up, is because he's pressing harder and harder
344
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.319
into those things. And you had
mentioned it before we started recording. But
345
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.519
it's like that's why he's starting to
sound more and more like a motivational speaker,
346
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.640
because he's pressing more into why is
someone not taking the advice that I'm
347
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.359
saying, like, why are they
not putting out seventy two pieces of content
348
00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.839
a day? Oh, it's because
they're insecure because of the way they were
349
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.279
raised, or that they got told
that they were fat until they were twelve
350
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.319
years old, and so that,
like he's starting to press into like the
351
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.039
real emotional stuff which comes across very
much motivation, e. But it's because
352
00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.440
he's figured out that, like,
I can give you all the right answers
353
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.720
and if you're not going to do
it, then why am I continuing to
354
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.039
give you all the right answers?
I need to get to the core and
355
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:23.640
help solve some of those core things
so that you can actually do themself.
356
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.240
And then he develops his own points
of view and things around it. Right
357
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.359
is and like I can hear it
in my eyes, like I'm going to
358
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:36.680
suffocate your excuses. It's the language
he's developed around those, those talking points,
359
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:38.400
which I think is smart and I
think we can all do that for
360
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:45.079
individual and industries. Yeah, that's
kind of where I was gonna wrap us
361
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.359
up, is because I do think
when I was looking over all these questions,
362
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:53.640
like man, all of these are
great content pieces, great episode premises
363
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:59.200
for Podcasts, like and not because
you want one of these questions to just
364
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:02.079
stay at the surf this level and
go like, all right, Dann,
365
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.720
how do you spend your day?
But like when you dive a layer deeper,
366
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.440
like you guys are saying, that's
when you start to get to the
367
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.359
good stuff of like, okay,
when it comes to content, when it
368
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.720
comes to attribution, what's like,
the underlying fear you're experiencing? What?
369
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.599
And we can do that and B
Two b. But again, like that's
370
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.680
why emotional marketing comes up even in
B two B, is because I think
371
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:25.359
there is a general fear there of
how you will come off. I respect
372
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:30.160
Gary v's approach because he gave us
very good marketing advice, first because he's
373
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.319
showing he's an expert, and then
now he's going, okay, if you
374
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:37.519
want to be like this, here's
also the soft skills that are necessary in
375
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.559
order to get there. So when
you can tie them together, the felt
376
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.599
need and then what's underlying, that's
when you start to hit some gold,
377
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.519
and I think that that's a big
deal for me when I look at all
378
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.880
these questions like this. Is Great
for content and it's great for going a
379
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:55.960
layer deeper with people and and exposing
some things and working on something so fun
380
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.599
episode. Stay curious. That's the
main takeaway from me from this is.
381
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.400
Like Dan, I'm glad you said
keep a list of questions. I do
382
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:06.359
the exact same thing. I I
love having questions that you can refer back
383
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:08.599
to ask yourself, even like a
you know, for me I have weekly
384
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.160
questions I go back to and,
uh, just ways of stay on top
385
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.359
of things by asking good questions staying
curious. So again, you can connect
386
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:22.559
with James, with Dan, with
myself over on Linkedin. Talk about marketing,
387
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:25.680
business life over there, and I
would love to hear from you.
388
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.720
Keep doing work that matters. We'll
be back real soon with another episode of
389
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:45.000
B Two B growth. If you
enjoy today's show, hit subscribe for more
390
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.960
marketing goodness and if you really enjoy
today's show, take a second to rate
391
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.799
and review the podcast on the platform
you're listening to it on right now.
392
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.079
If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting it to
393
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.720
a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing. m