The Compelling Case for Abandoning Email Automation for Prospecting

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:10.360 hello everyone and welcome back to be to be growth. My name is Olivia Hurley. 3 00:00:10.740 --> 00:00:15.260 And today I'm joined by mike heron, who's the head of marketing at lucca. 4 00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:20.450 Hi mike, how you doing? I'm great livia, how are you? I am great. I'm really 5 00:00:20.450 --> 00:00:25.380 excited to chat with you today because the last time we talked we unpacked a 6 00:00:25.380 --> 00:00:30.820 lot about industry trends and the state of B two B marketing. And one thing we 7 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:34.920 came across was that you have this really unique perspective on email 8 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:39.510 marketing which I find so fascinating because email marketing is almost 9 00:00:39.510 --> 00:00:46.430 completely and email automation let me specify is almost completely ubiquitous 10 00:00:46.440 --> 00:00:51.670 these days. Um except for how your team at lucca operates. And so I'm wondering 11 00:00:51.670 --> 00:00:56.740 can you recap you know the state of email automation and then tell us why 12 00:00:56.740 --> 00:01:01.650 you don't use it at lucca. Yeah, for sure, first of all, thanks for having 13 00:01:01.650 --> 00:01:05.940 me. I appreciate you have to chat with you today. So yeah, you know we we have 14 00:01:05.950 --> 00:01:08.810 we have an interesting, we have an interesting take at Lucca and around 15 00:01:08.820 --> 00:01:13.760 around B2B marketing as a whole where you know, we try to avoid email 16 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:17.560 automation wherever possible. And I know in this day and age right, email 17 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:21.260 automation is a is a big tactic in a lot of marketer's toolbox and the 18 00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:26.000 reason we at Luca really sort of have taken that out of our arsenal is just 19 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:31.470 the the sort of the mass amounts of it that are out there. We as marketers get 20 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:35.150 tons of email marketing. I can't tell you how many emails I get a day, cold 21 00:01:35.150 --> 00:01:38.920 emails of people that are trying to break the ice and get my attention. And 22 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:42.430 the one thing that we've really found works the best for us is sort of taking 23 00:01:42.430 --> 00:01:45.740 a step back and you know, thinking about, you know, how we would want to 24 00:01:45.740 --> 00:01:49.730 be communicated with, especially in the B two B space, when, when we think 25 00:01:49.730 --> 00:01:54.050 about sort of that journey of being, you know, interested in a product or 26 00:01:54.050 --> 00:01:57.500 service and interested in, you know, potentially bringing something new on 27 00:01:57.500 --> 00:02:01.090 to, you know, into our company, you know, by the time that sales process 28 00:02:01.090 --> 00:02:05.900 starts, we've probably already halfway made up that decision. So a lot of 29 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:09.220 times what happens, especially with the email automation, at least from what 30 00:02:09.220 --> 00:02:13.430 we've seen on our side is that it's just very impersonal. It's very can you 31 00:02:13.430 --> 00:02:17.690 can tell automatically that, you know, this is this is an automated system, 32 00:02:17.690 --> 00:02:21.250 there's no personality to it. So what we've done is we've completely removed 33 00:02:21.250 --> 00:02:26.430 it from our sales prospecting process. We focused more on the relationship, we 34 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:30.710 focused more on understanding who people are. We focus almost exclusively 35 00:02:30.710 --> 00:02:34.760 on problem solving because as marketers in this space, right, we want to be 36 00:02:34.760 --> 00:02:38.470 marketed to, you know, in the right way with the right message at the right 37 00:02:38.470 --> 00:02:42.600 time, on the right platform. And a lot of times we found what happens is if we 38 00:02:42.600 --> 00:02:45.700 start this conversation a little bit different way and we make it more 39 00:02:45.700 --> 00:02:49.120 personal and we try to build the relationship first released a upper 40 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.830 funnel, we found a lot more, a lot greater success when it comes to 41 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.610 reaching out cold. I think that's brilliant, and I want to unpack all of 42 00:02:57.610 --> 00:03:03.420 that. So starting at the top is email automation something you would consider 43 00:03:03.430 --> 00:03:09.170 a necessary evil or do you think companies can realistically do away 44 00:03:09.170 --> 00:03:14.630 with it entirely? I think I think it is a necessary evil, you know, when when 45 00:03:14.630 --> 00:03:19.080 we think about a tactic like email marketing and email automation, right? 46 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:23.190 It's it's really whether or not it fits your strategy or not, and if we're 47 00:03:23.190 --> 00:03:27.560 going to stay really high funnel, which is where most of B two B marketing 48 00:03:27.570 --> 00:03:31.720 tends to live and that's the most important part of it. I think it can be 49 00:03:31.720 --> 00:03:37.180 successful. You know, we might use email automation to update people about 50 00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:41.150 a new product or service, but when it comes to sort of the sales process, I 51 00:03:41.150 --> 00:03:46.190 feel that you know, you really need to have that non automated feel when that 52 00:03:46.190 --> 00:03:48.900 first email piece of marketing goes out. So I think it depends on. I think it 53 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:52.350 depends on the brand that it depends on the company and what strategy is put 54 00:03:52.350 --> 00:03:56.540 into place, but I think it's probably something that I think it's probably 55 00:03:56.540 --> 00:04:00.210 something that most people should try to avoid. Okay, so that was for all the 56 00:04:00.210 --> 00:04:06.530 naysayers. Right, But now I want to know what is the essence of these 57 00:04:06.540 --> 00:04:10.570 automated emails that you're getting. Can you describe kind of like a typical 58 00:04:10.570 --> 00:04:15.750 canned email and what it makes you feel, what it says about the type of 59 00:04:15.750 --> 00:04:21.310 relationship? Of course, one of my favorite ones is high. I found you on 60 00:04:21.310 --> 00:04:24.960 linkedin and I legally scraped Lincoln's database to find your 61 00:04:24.960 --> 00:04:29.310 information and I'm contacting you today because I think we've got a lot 62 00:04:29.310 --> 00:04:33.860 of possibilities to work together and those sort of nefarious acts happen. 63 00:04:33.870 --> 00:04:37.470 And it's just funny that some people are willing to put them out there. I 64 00:04:37.470 --> 00:04:40.840 think they're thinking is probably you know to go to show the person on the 65 00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:45.010 other side that they worked really hard to try to get your information. But 66 00:04:45.020 --> 00:04:50.860 they're so can it's hello, insert first name here my name is. So and so I work 67 00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:55.340 for this company. I've seen references to T. V. Shows and I've seen references 68 00:04:55.340 --> 00:05:00.100 to video games and you know it's it's just it's just so over the top 69 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:04.830 ridiculous most of the time and it starts with them first. And the one 70 00:05:04.830 --> 00:05:07.980 thing that I always tell our teams whether it's a sales team, whether it's 71 00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:10.720 an operations team, whether it's marketing team is it's always customer 72 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:15.870 first. We strive even when you go to any of our own properties, right? It's 73 00:05:15.880 --> 00:05:19.610 never product first. It's always customer first and when you get that 74 00:05:19.610 --> 00:05:23.490 type of email correspondence and you know that it's can and you know that 75 00:05:23.490 --> 00:05:27.890 it's automated. It just, I don't want to say it makes you feel dirty, but 76 00:05:27.890 --> 00:05:31.230 it's like, I know somebody on the other end is really trying hard, right on 77 00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:34.240 their job is on the line and they have to prospect. But at the end of the day 78 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:38.480 I'm a human being right? Like, you know, we like to do business with friends, 79 00:05:38.490 --> 00:05:42.470 right? Which is why networking is so big in our space and why we push 80 00:05:42.470 --> 00:05:46.520 networking at Lucas so hard. But that's really the relationship pieces you just 81 00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:50.510 don't get from from the automated email. I'd rather have something personal that 82 00:05:50.520 --> 00:05:53.000 comes from the heart. It's sort of like we talked about last time, Libya, it's 83 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.620 the handwritten note, write, handwritten notes have such a different 84 00:05:56.620 --> 00:06:01.060 feel than an email that a text messages in a slack than anything else. You know, 85 00:06:01.060 --> 00:06:04.530 a lot of times, that's how we'll start that conversation. You know, we'll send 86 00:06:04.530 --> 00:06:08.050 out something personal, you know, to try to get that attention, I've had 87 00:06:08.740 --> 00:06:14.220 tons of different crazy off the wall tactics from a icebreaking perspective 88 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:17.860 that have worked so much better than email marketing. And I think as I think 89 00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:22.690 as a group of marketers were just better than email innovation. I want to 90 00:06:22.690 --> 00:06:27.020 continue to unpack email innovation, but I do want you to tell the story of 91 00:06:27.020 --> 00:06:32.250 what you told me. Um last time. Do you know what I'm talking about. I do I do 92 00:06:32.260 --> 00:06:35.660 one of my favorite prospect, probably my favorite prospecting story of all 93 00:06:35.660 --> 00:06:41.950 time. I live in Chicago. I was working for a telecom company in the city and I 94 00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:46.930 had left the office one day to go grab a bite to eat. So I'm in my car and I'm 95 00:06:46.930 --> 00:06:51.540 driving out of the building and I see this giant mobile billboard and on the 96 00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:57.070 side of it is my VP of marketing face and we're talking you know 15 ft high, 97 00:06:57.070 --> 00:07:02.550 10 ft wide. And it says, do you know this man, question mark, have him call 98 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:06.390 this phone number. And I'm like, oh my God, what happened like if somebody 99 00:07:06.390 --> 00:07:10.400 looking for him, like what is the problem? So I stopped, I take a picture 100 00:07:10.400 --> 00:07:15.340 on my phone. I immediately texted to him and it was this brilliant company 101 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:19.640 that had tried to reach out to him a number of times and it didn't work and 102 00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:23.310 he was possibly right on their whale list and they were trying to break 103 00:07:23.310 --> 00:07:26.510 through and the beautiful part of this is that they knew their cost for 104 00:07:26.510 --> 00:07:29.850 conversion. They knew how much they could spend to acquire a new customer. 105 00:07:29.850 --> 00:07:33.190 They knew that this was a company that they were really interested in. So 106 00:07:33.190 --> 00:07:36.510 literally they hired a mobile billboard and they drove it around Chicago in 107 00:07:36.510 --> 00:07:39.790 front of our office hoping that somebody, from you know our building 108 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:44.160 which had 3000 people and it would see this and contact them, if it worked. 109 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:49.020 I'm trying to scarf a salad down and he and I are texting back and forth and I 110 00:07:49.020 --> 00:07:51.340 took the picture, I sent it to him, he called the number and we became a 111 00:07:51.340 --> 00:07:55.120 customer and they were an awesome a vendor, they had a great service that 112 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:59.010 if they wouldn't have told a crazy upper funnel stunt like that, we never 113 00:07:59.010 --> 00:08:02.390 would have known about it. So I mean and that's the thing is when you know 114 00:08:02.390 --> 00:08:06.900 what that cost for conversion is and you know what you can spend to generate 115 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:10.580 an R. N. Y. On a specific prospect, like that's why I said we're so much 116 00:08:10.580 --> 00:08:13.990 better than automated email and it's just it's one example that I've seen 117 00:08:13.990 --> 00:08:18.000 work really well and it it probably made the millions of dollars in return 118 00:08:18.010 --> 00:08:21.620 with the amount of spending, oh my gosh, I'm so glad it worked out that way 119 00:08:21.630 --> 00:08:25.090 because that type of, you know that type of story also gives me like the 120 00:08:25.090 --> 00:08:30.420 nervous sweat because it's that kind of boldness and encourages is absolutely 121 00:08:30.420 --> 00:08:34.360 fascinating and there's you leave a lot on the field when you do something like 122 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:40.750 that, but it's so human as well, like that's yeah, it's completely lifts away 123 00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:46.120 from this this email automation but I'm curious email automation, like we said, 124 00:08:46.130 --> 00:08:51.370 you know completely ubiquitous except for places like Luca, what are 125 00:08:51.370 --> 00:08:57.160 marketers and sellers trying to achieve with email automation, why is there a 126 00:08:57.160 --> 00:09:02.650 tight grip on this for sure. You know, when, when you think about, you know, 127 00:09:02.650 --> 00:09:06.060 when you think about prospecting, right? It becomes this numbers game, you know, 128 00:09:06.060 --> 00:09:09.990 we all have our conversion costs and we know all these numbers and we know all 129 00:09:09.990 --> 00:09:13.470 of this data. So, you know, a lot of times it's, it's simply just, you know, 130 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.780 it's like playing the market, you know, we're going to send out 1000 different 131 00:09:16.780 --> 00:09:21.110 emails and we know that .2% of them are going to respond and we know that at 132 00:09:21.110 --> 00:09:25.610 that point, 2% this month is going to convert and that's are costing and I 133 00:09:25.610 --> 00:09:29.560 think that's a fine way to do it. I think unfortunately we've sort of as an 134 00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:33.410 industry, right? The selling cycle has gotten shorter, right? You know, the 135 00:09:33.420 --> 00:09:36.520 world is in an odd place, right? Everybody's trying to be profitable if 136 00:09:36.520 --> 00:09:39.610 he was trying to hit their numbers, which I totally understand. I think 137 00:09:39.610 --> 00:09:43.590 it's just easy. I think it's the low hanging fruit, right? A lot of times, 138 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:46.860 you know, a sales team will come to, you know, a marketing team and say, hey, 139 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:50.100 we need this and the marketing team can just automated in the sales folks get 140 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:54.200 to forget about it. But again, at the end of the day, it's just not 141 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.360 personable, it's not there isn't that human connection there, especially in 142 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.720 this world, right? At the time that we're in like that human connection is 143 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:04.150 the one thing we need more than anything else, right? It's what 144 00:10:04.160 --> 00:10:07.410 everybody strives for. You know, we were we were at Luca we were at a 145 00:10:07.410 --> 00:10:10.600 conference and it was the first conference coming out of Covid and you 146 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.830 would have thought we were at Lollapalooza. I mean people were high 147 00:10:13.830 --> 00:10:17.870 fiving and hugging and like that's what we need and that's that's marketers, 148 00:10:17.880 --> 00:10:21.600 what we need to convey. The email automation is just low hanging fruit. 149 00:10:21.610 --> 00:10:25.500 That's all it is. And frankly it doesn't work. I've never responded to 150 00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:31.840 one. So is that what is this for 22 years? Never responded. So I'm, I think 151 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:37.390 that that that's Interesting that and it sounds like, and can you verify this 152 00:10:37.390 --> 00:10:43.480 for me that it's email automation doesn't require a lot of effort. You 153 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.830 set something in motion, you write it set in motion and then you might get, 154 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.770 did you see like 2% or .2% response back or something extremely low that 155 00:10:54.770 --> 00:10:58.860 for the effort it may be worth it. But I'm interesting just kind of on this 156 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:03.680 relational emotional side, what does that convey to you about the company as 157 00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:08.370 a whole when they do that kind of impersonal outreach. It's a great 158 00:11:08.370 --> 00:11:12.160 question. I mean the obvious answer is it makes me feel like a number, right? 159 00:11:12.170 --> 00:11:15.880 It makes me feel like they don't really care about my business, they don't care 160 00:11:15.880 --> 00:11:20.160 about, you know who I am, you know, as a company. I think the biggest issue we 161 00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:25.590 have really is that it's just generic. So it doesn't necessarily make me want 162 00:11:25.590 --> 00:11:29.480 to do business with that company. It doesn't really want to make me learn 163 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:33.440 more about that company. There have been times right where you know I'll 164 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.650 get those and if I'm already thinking about a product or service in the same 165 00:11:36.650 --> 00:11:39.930 space I might save it just to go back to it. But there's never been an 166 00:11:39.930 --> 00:11:42.550 instance where I'm like oh my God I have to contact these guys. They have 167 00:11:42.550 --> 00:11:45.160 my solution because I don't really know me. They don't understand our business. 168 00:11:45.170 --> 00:11:51.670 Hey everybody Logan was sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDP 169 00:11:51.670 --> 00:11:55.680 growth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show but you may not know 170 00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:59.820 that I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in 171 00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:03.970 sales or sales ops I wanted to take a 2nd to share something that's made us 172 00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:08.350 insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the 173 00:12:08.350 --> 00:12:12.760 past few months and what used to take us four hours gathering contact data 174 00:12:12.770 --> 00:12:18.060 Now takes us only one where 75 percent more efficient were able to move faster 175 00:12:18.060 --> 00:12:22.060 with outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much 176 00:12:22.060 --> 00:12:26.360 easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. 177 00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:33.680 You can check them out at lead I. Q dot com That's L E a D I Q dot com. All 178 00:12:33.680 --> 00:12:42.900 right, let's get back to the show. We talked about how this mobile billboard 179 00:12:42.900 --> 00:12:48.790 was super effective. This bold move. But it came after email automation or 180 00:12:48.790 --> 00:12:52.820 cold outreach, I'm sure something like that. And then it was a I won't call it 181 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:57.110 a last ditch effort or anything like that, but definitely a bolder move 182 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:03.080 after Unfruitful outreach. So I'm curious. We can back up a little bit to 183 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:08.960 the beginning of that process. What do you think that first outreach should be? 184 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:13.350 You know, what vehicle and what should it constitute? What should be made up 185 00:13:13.350 --> 00:13:18.520 of? Sure. You know, I think that first outreach really needs to be thoughtful. 186 00:13:18.520 --> 00:13:22.760 It really needs to be personal. Like I mentioned, marketing is about the right 187 00:13:22.760 --> 00:13:26.200 message at the right time to the right person and the right channel and you 188 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:31.210 know, with email inboxes so full of spam anymore and the way that things 189 00:13:31.210 --> 00:13:36.950 can be categorized in existence. For for example, google, it's easy to miss 190 00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:40.240 that stuff. So, you know, what we like to do is look at more traditional 191 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:44.370 tactics. You know, the handwritten note, it's much more personable. It's much 192 00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:48.310 more, you know, sort of telling around who the company is. It makes a bigger 193 00:13:48.310 --> 00:13:52.590 impact. Now, clearly in these times that can be hard wearing, knowing where 194 00:13:52.590 --> 00:13:56.380 to send that to while they're still our number of us working at home. But what 195 00:13:56.380 --> 00:14:00.220 we try to do at lucca is learn as much as we can, you know, we'll do deep 196 00:14:00.220 --> 00:14:03.280 dives, we'll do our research, we'll try to figure out who they are, we'll try 197 00:14:03.280 --> 00:14:06.250 to figure out what problems they have. We'll look back at interviews and 198 00:14:06.250 --> 00:14:09.970 podcasts, they might have done like this and do research on them before we 199 00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:13.670 reach out to try to understand their business a little bit more and when we 200 00:14:13.670 --> 00:14:17.990 do things like that and even if it does become an email, it's just, it's just 201 00:14:17.990 --> 00:14:22.780 such a much better way to show the value of the time and the energy that 202 00:14:22.790 --> 00:14:25.440 is on the other side of the person would have to take to respond to this. 203 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.730 But it's really about just learning, it's really about understanding what 204 00:14:28.730 --> 00:14:31.250 their problems are and how you might be able to solve them. It's got to be 205 00:14:31.250 --> 00:14:36.780 customer first. Yeah, I love that. So the vehicle may very well be email but 206 00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:43.770 it's written by the person to the specific person. It is referencing pain 207 00:14:43.770 --> 00:14:48.020 points or challenges or specific things you've been involved with basically all 208 00:14:48.020 --> 00:14:54.060 of these overt ways to communicate. I am trying to do business with you mike 209 00:14:54.340 --> 00:15:00.060 versus I am trying to meet my quota. I think I saw in Lincoln somewhere 210 00:15:00.060 --> 00:15:03.910 somebody called the commission breath which I thought was a horrible, 211 00:15:03.910 --> 00:15:08.220 horrible but really awesome way to describe like you know when you can 212 00:15:08.230 --> 00:15:12.730 yeah, anyway we don't need to unpack that. But yeah, okay, so definitely 213 00:15:12.730 --> 00:15:16.510 this highly personal and then email, it sounds like is still going to be very 214 00:15:16.510 --> 00:15:23.160 effective. Is there a way that you would or that you guide your team where 215 00:15:23.160 --> 00:15:28.710 they're sending personal emails, they're sending outreach that that's 216 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:34.460 really well crafted but they're still not getting a reply. What do you coach 217 00:15:34.460 --> 00:15:42.090 your team to do then? Sure. What we talk about a lot is timing. We know 218 00:15:42.090 --> 00:15:47.430 that, you know, timing is probably the biggest part of converting anything in 219 00:15:47.430 --> 00:15:52.060 the B. B. Space. So while it might not be the right time today, that doesn't 220 00:15:52.060 --> 00:15:55.260 mean we give up, right? That doesn't mean that, you know, we don't continue 221 00:15:55.260 --> 00:15:58.750 to reach out, we might reach out in a different way. You know, we might send 222 00:15:58.750 --> 00:16:02.770 that personalized note, we might send them a message on linkedin, we might 223 00:16:02.770 --> 00:16:07.510 try to find them in a different space. So we understand that the timing isn't 224 00:16:07.510 --> 00:16:11.460 right for everybody, but we just sort of keep at it. It's everybody's time is 225 00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:15.040 incredibly valuable, right? Like your day, like my day, like the people 226 00:16:15.040 --> 00:16:19.250 listening right? Like our day is filled with meetings where to the point where 227 00:16:19.250 --> 00:16:21.960 we don't even probably get to work a heck of lot anymore, right? We're just 228 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:27.220 talking and and helping our teams, but the timing will be there if we get the 229 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:30.980 message to them at the right time and it makes sense. That's good, right? 230 00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:34.870 That's that's the best part and if they don't respond then then they might not 231 00:16:34.870 --> 00:16:39.190 need us. But we do take a look at connecting again. We do look at 232 00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:43.000 connecting further on down the road. We don't pester them. You know, we we 233 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:47.030 don't send the stereotypical like three or four email chains. You must be 234 00:16:47.030 --> 00:16:50.880 really busy. You know, I I don't think you saw my email from before. Here's 235 00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:55.750 exactly what I said and please contact me again. I was telling you, you know, 236 00:16:55.750 --> 00:16:59.460 I actually got that's probably the fourth email from a specific company 237 00:16:59.470 --> 00:17:05.470 and they offered me an amazon gift card. Like here's $500 on Amazon. Please 238 00:17:05.470 --> 00:17:11.210 respond to this email. It's like, I mean that I mean $500 is 500 bucks, 239 00:17:11.210 --> 00:17:14.040 right? But at the end of the day like that's not a company, I want to do 240 00:17:14.040 --> 00:17:18.140 business, but that's going to buy me. And that becomes a mean, that becomes a 241 00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:22.890 big problem, right? Is that ethical? Is that not ethical? I'm sure there are 242 00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:26.630 tons of things my wife can find on Amazon to spend $500 on, but that's 243 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:29.810 just not the type of company I want to do business with. And I love what you 244 00:17:29.810 --> 00:17:34.180 said when you were telling me that you said $500 500 dollars, but my time is 245 00:17:34.180 --> 00:17:37.170 so much more valuable. And I was like, oh my gosh, I wouldn't even think of 246 00:17:37.170 --> 00:17:41.930 that. I'm just I would just be like, you know, for sure. You know, and that 247 00:17:41.930 --> 00:17:46.320 becomes the thing when we look at business professionals, we look at our 248 00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:50.230 day, you know, it is so full of everything, right? And, and we're 249 00:17:50.230 --> 00:17:54.770 trading time, you know, with our family, with our significant others, with our 250 00:17:54.770 --> 00:17:58.380 loved ones, right to work and provide much, you know, to earn money to 251 00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:02.930 support them and to provide for them And $500 at the end of the day isn't 252 00:18:02.930 --> 00:18:06.710 worth me taking an hour out of my day where I could be doing something to 253 00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:09.640 push the business forward where somebody can give me a sales pitch. 254 00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:13.470 It's just not, it's just not worth it for me. Like if I have the need at that 255 00:18:13.470 --> 00:18:17.860 time and the messaging is to the point where I think they can actually help me 256 00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:21.790 solve a problem, then I'll reach out. But it's gotten to the point where it's 257 00:18:21.790 --> 00:18:25.040 just like I don't even open them anymore except what I told you about 258 00:18:25.050 --> 00:18:29.930 because I was just looking at it while we were chatting. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 259 00:18:29.930 --> 00:18:33.490 And I, I think that's such a, just a totally different rabbit trail to go 260 00:18:33.490 --> 00:18:36.980 down. But like I was that kind of is that ethical. That's so interesting. 261 00:18:36.980 --> 00:18:40.970 I'm so glad you said that because now I'll kind of have that on on alert as I 262 00:18:40.970 --> 00:18:45.750 start getting these types of, I'm curious just just for the sake of like 263 00:18:45.750 --> 00:18:51.280 scope. how many of these emails do you think you get in a day in a week? I 264 00:18:51.280 --> 00:18:57.330 probably get a dozen a day that I see there. You know, again, I'm usually 265 00:18:57.330 --> 00:19:01.230 always a day behind on my email. You know, the ironic part is at Luca, we 266 00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:05.360 actually don't use email very much. We use email when we correspond with 267 00:19:05.360 --> 00:19:09.450 people outside of the company, we use other channels inside, so we've sort of 268 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:13.950 trained and then trained to use email less. So again, I mean, I'll go through 269 00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:17.050 there, but a lot of times we've got a great spam filter, like if it's not 270 00:19:17.050 --> 00:19:20.190 somebody like I've communicated with before, most of the time, it probably 271 00:19:20.190 --> 00:19:26.540 doesn't even get to me right, Oh my gosh, well everybody listen up. So this 272 00:19:26.550 --> 00:19:32.020 all sounds like just really not only the direction the industry is moving 273 00:19:32.020 --> 00:19:35.670 with this, you know, direct mail and highly personalized experiences and 274 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.920 seems to be right on track with that, but I also love this. And I think I've 275 00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:43.590 heard this and almost everything you say you've said just of this like deep 276 00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:48.870 respect for human dignity and deep respect for time and you know, want 277 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.400 understanding like on the other end of that automated emails, person trying to 278 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.140 do your job, but the other end of automated email is you a human being 279 00:19:56.140 --> 00:20:00.570 with a, you know, with time and things like that. And so I'm curious that's so 280 00:20:00.570 --> 00:20:06.130 compelling, but how would you convince, you know, a diehard automated emailer 281 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:10.560 that either it isn't worth it or they could do, they could do what you're 282 00:20:10.560 --> 00:20:16.460 suggesting at scale. Sure. So, you know, totally understand that, totally 283 00:20:16.460 --> 00:20:19.090 understand the game, right? There are people on the other side that are 284 00:20:19.090 --> 00:20:22.270 emailing me that are trying to do their job and I totally understand and 285 00:20:22.270 --> 00:20:25.590 respect that, you know, one of the things, one of the things that that 286 00:20:25.590 --> 00:20:29.090 we've done, you know, to sort of take this is a different direction. You know, 287 00:20:29.090 --> 00:20:32.570 when you talk about scale, it really allows us to do this differently. 288 00:20:32.580 --> 00:20:37.280 There's so many other uses for an email address. There's so many other ways 289 00:20:37.280 --> 00:20:41.530 that as marketers, we can use that to communicate with someone, not just in 290 00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:45.420 the email space, right? That can be loaded into media programs that can be 291 00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:50.700 loaded into social media channels. That can be put again into the channel that 292 00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:54.360 the person is using at that specific time, that might not necessarily be 293 00:20:54.360 --> 00:20:58.190 email. So a lot of times we look at alternate ways to do that, right? You 294 00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:02.650 know, you can you can go on linked in, right, Which is just a great B two B 295 00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:06.400 channel that we utilize on time together. Information. And you can load 296 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.600 that customer listen to lengthen and you can provide messaging to them. You 297 00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:14.350 can put built ads around the hole in male products, right? Is there? And 298 00:21:14.360 --> 00:21:17.960 while that's a little bit more personal because there's a face tied behind it, 299 00:21:17.970 --> 00:21:22.140 right? Like we sort of rely on the old school sort of upper funnel tactics and 300 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.520 then use retargeting, you know, to try to build that and to try to get them to 301 00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:30.940 take an action and serve them content and warm them up before we start 302 00:21:30.950 --> 00:21:36.240 throwing meetings on their calendar or sending them personalized emails with 303 00:21:36.250 --> 00:21:40.780 unsubscribe at the bottom. Right? So, you know, we sort of look at it from a 304 00:21:40.780 --> 00:21:43.860 different perspective, but there's just so many other ways that you can do it, 305 00:21:43.870 --> 00:21:47.360 even if you have their email address, it's just considerably more effective. 306 00:21:47.370 --> 00:21:52.380 I mean, again, everybody knows their email statistics, right? I mean A good 307 00:21:52.390 --> 00:21:58.450 a good open rate in our industry is 10 right click through rate is, you know, 308 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:05.470 2/10 of a 100,000 people, you just playing the numbers game like you're 309 00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:09.140 not going to get scaled that way. What about the other 80% of people that did 310 00:22:09.140 --> 00:22:12.740 nothing with your email message, what are you doing to contact them? So it 311 00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:16.950 can be used. And I understand that there's a time and a place for it. I 312 00:22:16.950 --> 00:22:20.950 just think in the B2B space, you know, the decisions made before you even 313 00:22:20.950 --> 00:22:24.250 contact us, right? You're not selling me anything, I haven't thought of 314 00:22:24.260 --> 00:22:29.940 before build the relationship, explain to me how you're going to help you and 315 00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:31.930 how you're going to solve a problem? Because at the end of the day, that's 316 00:22:31.930 --> 00:22:35.670 what we're doing in leadership, right? Like my job is to solve the problems 317 00:22:35.670 --> 00:22:39.420 that come up for my team and help my company move forward if you can help me. 318 00:22:39.430 --> 00:22:44.360 I'm all in. Yeah. Especially because I think, I don't know if this is true 319 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:49.440 across the board, but certainly in my experience, people have a lot of agency 320 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:54.790 with, with researching solutions, they're, you know, not sitting around 321 00:22:54.800 --> 00:23:00.100 waiting to have somebody come and solve their own problem. They're already 322 00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:04.120 starting to find solutions. And I think that's why marketing is always this 323 00:23:04.120 --> 00:23:07.650 like phalanx approach of S E O and all these different elements, Right? So 324 00:23:07.650 --> 00:23:12.170 they can they can find you wherever you are. But email automation, I do think 325 00:23:12.170 --> 00:23:17.140 kind of the language, the typical languages, like you don't even know you 326 00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:21.510 have this problem yet or something or you've never even, you know, so I think 327 00:23:21.510 --> 00:23:25.910 everything you're saying just kind of at least in my mind with fairly limited 328 00:23:25.910 --> 00:23:30.260 B to be experienced. Yeah. Is like it all is just lining up in this in this 329 00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:34.770 way that stacks up with everything, all the other initiatives and goals within 330 00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:38.550 the B two B space. And I think that I think I think you hit the nail on the 331 00:23:38.550 --> 00:23:43.680 head, right? Is the way that the way that we utilize technology, right? The 332 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:49.400 vast majority of people are searching google with a question, right, how do I 333 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:54.940 do this, this product versus this product? Right. Who are my providers 334 00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:58.720 for this, Who our competitors of this company? And when you think about that, 335 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.990 we're trying to solve our own problems, right? We're already thinking about it. 336 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.500 All you have to do is a marketer is trying to drop that right piece of 337 00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:08.270 content into the right person at the right time on the right channel. And 338 00:24:08.270 --> 00:24:11.290 now you become part of that conversation again, nobody's ever sent 339 00:24:11.290 --> 00:24:14.350 me an email and I said, wow, I don't have that problem. I need to talk to 340 00:24:14.350 --> 00:24:18.610 you. Right, right. It doesn't work that way. Our minds don't work that way. I 341 00:24:18.610 --> 00:24:22.540 love that you said all the market needs to do is drop in a content right time. 342 00:24:22.540 --> 00:24:27.080 Right. Place, easier said than done from what I can do. Well, it is, it is, 343 00:24:27.090 --> 00:24:31.110 but that's why we test and that's why we run big campaigns and that's why we 344 00:24:31.110 --> 00:24:37.960 study the funnel and find out where people are. Yeah, Well, I'm curious if 345 00:24:37.970 --> 00:24:42.960 first of all, did was there ever a time where Luca used email automation for 346 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.710 this initial outreach. So, so I've been, I've been at lucca for about six months 347 00:24:48.710 --> 00:24:53.430 now, I don't know of any time that we've actually done it. We have a we 348 00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:58.250 have a very complicated product in the crypto Blockchain data and software 349 00:24:58.250 --> 00:25:03.450 space. So, so our sales force and our marketing team have always been very 350 00:25:03.450 --> 00:25:08.270 focused on specific companies and specific people. So instead of having 351 00:25:08.270 --> 00:25:14.140 this gigantic broad list of prospects right? We know who we know who we would 352 00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:17.320 best work with, right? We we look at our culture, we look at their culture, 353 00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:20.460 we look at how our product's fit, how are companies fit together. So our 354 00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:24.460 prospect is is it going to be very big at the end of the day, we try to find 355 00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:27.720 those people where they're at. We do lots of conferences, we do lots of 356 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:31.280 speaking engagements, we do lots of podcasts, we do tons of content and 357 00:25:31.280 --> 00:25:34.910 that's been it's been a big initiative for us, is trying to get out 358 00:25:34.910 --> 00:25:38.180 organically into the space, like we just talked about, Right? So when you 359 00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:42.510 search for these things right? We're coming up as thought leaders. We like 360 00:25:42.510 --> 00:25:45.150 to do business with our friends, right? We like to do people we have 361 00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:50.560 relationships with. So if I can get our team are we have we literally at lucca 362 00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:55.800 have the most smartest financial minds in the world and I wholly believe that. 363 00:25:55.810 --> 00:25:59.560 And if I can get them out there as thought leaders and you can see them in 364 00:25:59.560 --> 00:26:03.470 that space talking about a problem that you have. That's a hell of a lot better 365 00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:08.420 way to start that relationship, then Hi, my name is steve what are you using for 366 00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:13.820 your google page search campaigns, Right? So so build that human piece, 367 00:26:13.830 --> 00:26:18.240 right? Like we are people at the end of the day, and again, we use content 368 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.720 marketing a heck of a lot more than we use email, and it works a lot better 369 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:25.930 and it stretches a much wider net because again, if we can talk about how 370 00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:28.870 we've already solved the problem for somebody else and somebody in your 371 00:26:28.870 --> 00:26:33.400 space that you might respect or your competitor, I'm going to be much more 372 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:38.830 engaged to try to learn more on how you did that. Is that a strong inbound 373 00:26:38.840 --> 00:26:44.810 strategy as well? Oh, for sure. Yeah. You know, I mean when we do that, 374 00:26:44.810 --> 00:26:48.890 that's a huge amount strategy, because, you know, we'll use our partners, you 375 00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:52.700 know, for example, we've got we've got great partners, great backing with with 376 00:26:52.700 --> 00:26:56.060 State Street and S and P. And a lot of times they're out there doing the same 377 00:26:56.060 --> 00:26:58.700 things. We are, they're putting content out there, they're building thought 378 00:26:58.700 --> 00:27:02.820 leadership. So, you know, we'll post something, you know, that that s and P 379 00:27:02.820 --> 00:27:06.150 might have put out there, for example, we power their new crypto in the sea. 380 00:27:06.150 --> 00:27:08.850 So we've got this great back and forth relationship, we're trying to help each 381 00:27:08.850 --> 00:27:14.250 other and what it really comes back to is it's a huge driver. You know, they 382 00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:18.190 might post a piece of content on their blogger in their social channels, it's 383 00:27:18.190 --> 00:27:21.450 a whole different audience that we might not reach. So it does help 384 00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:25.720 greatly fill that upper funnel. So you have to do less prospecting. And if the 385 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:28.690 content is right and you're doing it the right cadence and you're telling 386 00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:33.950 the write stories, then then we'll do very, very little outbound. It's all 387 00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:37.520 about filling the upper funnel and bond with that type of content and then the 388 00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:42.780 magic happens and the relationships are already strong and warm and you get to 389 00:27:42.780 --> 00:27:43.330 come. 390 00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:51.590 You really do you really do? I'm like, yeah, ok. I'm thinking that I'm ready 391 00:27:51.590 --> 00:27:56.920 to go do that kind of thing. So, but I'm curious which as we know would not 392 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:02.030 be a good idea and is far more complicated than, but I'm really for 393 00:28:02.030 --> 00:28:05.440 people that work for me that do all the work. I just talked, I love it. And I 394 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:10.950 love the nod to State Street because I'm from boston. And so the big, the 395 00:28:10.950 --> 00:28:15.070 big building with the beautiful script across the top, I see that all the, all 396 00:28:15.070 --> 00:28:20.690 the time. So, so that feels so familiar to me. Sure. I love a great time, but 397 00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:24.530 I'm curious if there was one thing that you wanted listeners to get from this 398 00:28:24.530 --> 00:28:28.750 episode, you were just really wanted to drive it home. What would it be? I 399 00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:33.080 guess really what it comes down to is is it's cliche, but think outside the 400 00:28:33.080 --> 00:28:37.610 box, right? Think of put yourself in your prospect of your customers 401 00:28:37.610 --> 00:28:42.900 position on the other side. Think about what works best for you. We get as 402 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:46.860 marketers, right? We have this toolbox, right? And we use all these big words 403 00:28:46.860 --> 00:28:50.470 and we have all of these things that become on trend. But at the end of the 404 00:28:50.470 --> 00:28:55.250 day, a tactic is just a tactic, right? It has to meet your strategy. There are 405 00:28:55.250 --> 00:29:00.480 no bad tactics, but there are terrible strategies out there. And if you focus 406 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.210 on what matters, if you focus on the people's side, if you if you think 407 00:29:04.210 --> 00:29:07.780 about it from a human being perspective, there's another person on the other end, 408 00:29:07.780 --> 00:29:12.680 right? You're asking for their time and if you can tell them and prove to them 409 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:16.190 that you can solve their problem. Marketing, email, marketing and 410 00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:20.210 automation could be a great tactic for you. But for the most part, you know, 411 00:29:20.210 --> 00:29:24.540 it seems to be a little bit played out like traditional email marketing, right? 412 00:29:24.540 --> 00:29:27.890 Spam folders, those types of things. So think differently, understand your 413 00:29:27.890 --> 00:29:31.080 metrics, understand your numbers, know what you're trying to know what you're 414 00:29:31.080 --> 00:29:36.910 trying to achieve and try to be bold if there's really a prospect out there, If 415 00:29:36.910 --> 00:29:39.790 there's a whale out there that you're trying to connect with. Try something 416 00:29:39.790 --> 00:29:42.630 different, you never know. I mean, you could put somebody's face on a 417 00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:47.300 billboard in mobile billboard and drive her on Chicago and, you know, close a 418 00:29:47.300 --> 00:29:51.190 $2 million piece of business all in an afternoon. But you know, you never know 419 00:29:51.190 --> 00:29:54.340 until you try and that's what marketing is, it's testing right? We don't have 420 00:29:54.340 --> 00:29:58.560 all the answers we have the technology to allow us to figure that out, but 421 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:01.890 we're all just learning every day and just keep testing and trying and 422 00:30:01.890 --> 00:30:05.970 thinking bigger. Yeah, and I love that are really one of the really practical 423 00:30:05.970 --> 00:30:11.180 ways that you shared about thinking outside of the box was what else can 424 00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:14.290 you do with an email address? And I think that's just like a really easy 425 00:30:14.290 --> 00:30:19.190 way for people to implement, go back to their desks wherever they might be and 426 00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:23.760 start brainstorming about other ways that they can get that email address to 427 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:27.990 work for them and have really great relationships. It's a great way to 428 00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:33.890 scale your email numbers. Let me tell you, I love that. Okay, mike how can 429 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:38.790 listeners connect with you and learn more about Luca if they're just want to 430 00:30:38.790 --> 00:30:42.480 know more totally. So first of all, if you have anything to do with crypto, if 431 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:47.350 you're a crypto buyer trader seller LFTs, if your company does crypto or 432 00:30:47.350 --> 00:30:51.630 finance, you have to know about Luca so you can find us at lucca dot tech. 433 00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:56.570 We've got a lot of great products and services like I said, we power sort of 434 00:30:56.570 --> 00:31:01.130 all of the crypto data across the globe, so really, really fun space to be in 435 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:06.370 lucca is also on linkedin and twitter and I am on Lincoln as well. So I would 436 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.930 love to talk shop every once in a while I post some interesting tidbits so 437 00:31:09.940 --> 00:31:13.070 please feel free to follow me and I appreciate the conversation with 438 00:31:13.070 --> 00:31:17.340 anybody that wants to chat marketing. Well, I have so appreciated this 439 00:31:17.340 --> 00:31:21.870 conversation. This has been so great and I'm so glad that you join me today 440 00:31:21.870 --> 00:31:26.350 on BtV growth Olivia. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate your time. 441 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:33.450 Is the decision maker for your product or service of BB marketer. Are you 442 00:31:33.450 --> 00:31:37.660 looking to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting? Considered 443 00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:42.880 becoming a co host of GDP growth. This show is consistently ranked as a top 444 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.030 100 podcast in the marketing category of apple podcasts And the show gets 445 00:31:47.030 --> 00:31:52.610 more than 130,000 downloads each month. We've already done the work of building 446 00:31:52.610 --> 00:31:56.640 the audience so you can focus on delivering incredible content to our 447 00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:02.060 listeners if you're interested email Logan at sweet fish media dot com.