Jan. 4, 2022

The Best Book I've Read On Branding with Patrick Hanlon

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Patrick Hanlon about his book Primal Branding and how it has changed the way Dan approaches branding for companies, products, and people. 

It provides a clear framework on how to inject meaning and weight into your brand so that it can be more than a logo.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:09.320 Welcome back to G. D. P. Growth. I'm dan Sanchez with Sweet fish media and 2 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:13.570 today I'm talking to Patrick Hanlon who is the author of primal branding and 3 00:00:13.570 --> 00:00:18.420 the ceo of Primal branding co Patrick, welcome to the show, hey thanks for 4 00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:19.560 having me to be here. 5 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.990 I've been looking forward to this episode for a long time because your 6 00:00:23.990 --> 00:00:28.710 book has been one of the best books that I've read in awhile and I read a 7 00:00:28.710 --> 00:00:32.900 lot of books on business. I read a lot of books on marketing before reading 8 00:00:32.910 --> 00:00:36.670 primal branding. It was certainly branding was just an ambiguous term. 9 00:00:36.670 --> 00:00:39.560 People meant different things. You're like, are we talking about logos, 10 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:43.960 colors, emotion stories, what are we talking about and everyone had a 11 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:48.400 different view. I wasn't to tell this, I was like oh it was finally like it 12 00:00:48.400 --> 00:00:53.250 gave me a playbook, not that it's easy but it gave me a playbook and actually 13 00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:57.580 to address what is a strong brand versus a non strong brand and how to 14 00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:01.660 take a brand that's just shallow and turn it into something really robust 15 00:01:01.670 --> 00:01:05.190 and meaty. So I'm looking forward to covering giving some highlights of the 16 00:01:05.190 --> 00:01:09.290 book but also asking you some questions for our audience On how to use the 17 00:01:09.290 --> 00:01:12.770 primal branding system, what you call the primal brand in order to build 18 00:01:12.770 --> 00:01:16.290 better brands for their B- two B companies. Great, hopefully we're 19 00:01:16.290 --> 00:01:21.190 making it easier, it's not easy but it's easier B two C brands have 20 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:25.710 certainly led the charge when it comes to what good branding can look like and 21 00:01:25.710 --> 00:01:29.650 B. Two B has always been catching up. But lately it seems like B two B brands 22 00:01:29.650 --> 00:01:33.320 have started to do some great things out there, but it's still few and far 23 00:01:33.320 --> 00:01:37.440 between and or B. Two B leaders are still looking for how to make their 24 00:01:37.450 --> 00:01:41.850 business brands stronger and resonate more deeply with their their target 25 00:01:41.850 --> 00:01:44.860 audiences. So I was really looking forward to interviewing you to get some 26 00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:49.060 more of this content in front of the audience. Yeah, I think actually the 27 00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:53.840 the difference between B two B and B two C was, I don't know if it was 28 00:01:53.850 --> 00:01:57.630 artificial in the first place or not, but it's certainly the lines have 29 00:01:57.630 --> 00:02:03.030 blurred a little bit as people become more, here we are, we're sitting in our 30 00:02:03.030 --> 00:02:07.670 home offices and working from home and we're constantly on our phones checking 31 00:02:07.670 --> 00:02:11.050 things out etcetera etcetera. And so I think that the lines have blurred 32 00:02:11.050 --> 00:02:15.390 between B two B and real life. And in the case of using primal it's 33 00:02:15.390 --> 00:02:20.710 definitely there's no difference. So we look at things as how do you brand 34 00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:26.490 people places and things and if it's a person, it's whether you're Elon musk 35 00:02:26.490 --> 00:02:32.020 or it's you or Justin Bieber or something like that places, it could be 36 00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:36.620 a geographic place, like a country, the U. S. Or France or something or it 37 00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:42.480 could be Disney land or Disney world and in terms of things, certainly 38 00:02:42.480 --> 00:02:49.730 products and services of course, but also things like concepts like gravity, 39 00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:56.060 like why do we all believe in gravity or Cryptocurrency is a new one that's 40 00:02:56.060 --> 00:03:00.270 out there or coronavirus for that matter. So why do we believe in these 41 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:04.160 things? So they all have the same routes. 42 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:09.380 It brings me back to one of my favorite term or quotes in the book and I had to 43 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:14.570 under light and highlighted because it became it was the big change in aha for 44 00:03:14.570 --> 00:03:19.950 me was when you said brands, our belief systems. Once you look at a brand like 45 00:03:19.950 --> 00:03:23.500 a belief system and automatically gains the advantage is that enterprise 46 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:30.950 strives for trust, vibrancy, empathy, commitment. Yeah. It's the thing that 47 00:03:30.950 --> 00:03:36.880 people spend so much money on all their marketing efforts are toward trying to 48 00:03:36.890 --> 00:03:42.030 I don't want to say superficially, but in a in a slim way, let's say create 49 00:03:42.030 --> 00:03:49.450 vision and values and trust and efficacy and community and customers 50 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.040 And and we don't really know, especially in B2B, I would say, but 51 00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:58.340 also in consumer packaged goods and so forth. Any also maybe to a lesser 52 00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:04.020 extent, but we really the subject of branding has always been like molding 53 00:04:04.020 --> 00:04:09.310 fog, I'd like to say. And if you ask 100 people what is the brand, you get 54 00:04:09.380 --> 00:04:15.170 100 different answers. And nowhere else in marketing or advertising industry, 55 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:20.620 do we let something go that is not measured, right? It does not is not 56 00:04:20.630 --> 00:04:26.430 measured or that that effort didn't marketing effort didn't work. Sorry, 57 00:04:26.440 --> 00:04:30.960 let's try something else, zig and Zag and I just thought that was ridiculous. 58 00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:36.530 And I had a client project that I was working on and I started to wonder to 59 00:04:36.530 --> 00:04:42.160 myself or what really separates the, what are the powerful brands doing? Is 60 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:47.750 there any kind of pattern that's in there? And of course, my first thing I 61 00:04:47.750 --> 00:04:51.050 thought of was, well, they all have a logo. And then I started thinking well 62 00:04:51.050 --> 00:04:56.590 along right underneath that logo is their theme or creed as they ultimately 63 00:04:56.590 --> 00:05:01.660 called it. They all have a leave ceo or someone else, a steve jobs or Elon musk 64 00:05:01.660 --> 00:05:05.660 or something. Ellen really wasn't around at that time. But the and they 65 00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:10.850 all have generally they all have a creation story, whether it was the two 66 00:05:10.850 --> 00:05:15.740 steves jobs and Wozniak working in the garage trying to make computers for the 67 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:20.730 rest of us, or HP had the same story. Then winding coils and the Harley 68 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:24.560 Davidson, Davidson started in the garage and thank God for the garage. 69 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:29.890 Right. And they had words that they had built around them and special words 70 00:05:29.900 --> 00:05:34.440 imac and this and that and the other thing, iced grande, skinny decaf latte 71 00:05:34.450 --> 00:05:40.080 for Starbucks. And they all had competitors or people that were against 72 00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:45.440 them in some way, shape or form Mac versus pc burger wars, the colder wars 73 00:05:45.450 --> 00:05:51.510 back in the 1919 nineties and dating myself. But but these days it's google 74 00:05:51.510 --> 00:05:56.460 phone versus iphone and so forth. And so anyway, the vegans versus mediators 75 00:05:56.940 --> 00:06:01.280 and I started to see that there were some similarities between the big 76 00:06:01.280 --> 00:06:06.380 powerful brands and even those that didn't advertise like google and 77 00:06:06.380 --> 00:06:12.000 Starbucks still had these things, these assets and pillars, some people call 78 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.980 them, we call it primal code. So if you have a creation story, you have a creed, 79 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:22.600 you have icons, you have rituals, you have uh special words, a lexicon, their 80 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:27.950 sacred words, you have non believers and you have a leader. And when you 81 00:06:27.950 --> 00:06:32.560 pull these seven things together in a storyline, what we call a strategic 82 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:39.670 brand narrative, you ping not only as it happens, not only the rational parts 83 00:06:39.670 --> 00:06:44.880 of our brains that make help things make sense, but also the emotional 84 00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:51.830 parts of our brains that we are that draws us to you and when all these 85 00:06:51.830 --> 00:06:55.770 things are pulled together, you do create a belief system and a system of 86 00:06:55.770 --> 00:07:02.110 belief in that people not only on the outside customer facing share, but also 87 00:07:02.110 --> 00:07:06.220 hopefully people on the inside because if the people inside your company don't 88 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:09.540 believe in what they're doing there, you're certainly not going to be able 89 00:07:09.540 --> 00:07:14.770 to sell people on the outside. So you pull these things together and uh you 90 00:07:14.770 --> 00:07:18.660 attract into a belief system and you attract others who share your beliefs 91 00:07:19.140 --> 00:07:23.860 and that can be two people or it could be too billion people. 92 00:07:25.140 --> 00:07:29.880 So it all comes down to the beliefs which to me is almost summarized in the 93 00:07:29.880 --> 00:07:33.570 creed, which you have, the creed is something like what I would I think 94 00:07:33.570 --> 00:07:36.380 that most people would call like the mission what you're trying to 95 00:07:36.380 --> 00:07:39.970 accomplish. Not necessarily like a b hag, but what do you want to see 96 00:07:39.970 --> 00:07:43.210 different in the world? Kind of a thing. And a lot of companies have missions, 97 00:07:43.210 --> 00:07:46.650 but not very strong ones. I don't think it's the mission. It's the the mission 98 00:07:46.650 --> 00:07:50.370 is like what we're trying to set out to do. And the creed is more this is the 99 00:07:50.370 --> 00:07:54.130 thing that rallies us around that mission, but it's it's just doing its 100 00:07:54.130 --> 00:07:58.540 think different, it's the ultimate driving machine. It was the old ups 101 00:07:58.540 --> 00:08:02.560 thing if we build the tightest ship in the shipping business or have the type 102 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:07.170 of ship in the shipping business, which was reflective in that and spoke now 103 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:11.090 it's an old campaign engaging myself immediately. But anyway, the it was 104 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:16.360 instrumental in that time for ups that with the tightest ship in the shipping 105 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.850 business because it told the customers that they had their stuff together, 106 00:08:20.860 --> 00:08:25.950 they're shipped together. And but it was reflexive because that also they 107 00:08:25.960 --> 00:08:31.330 they did not have their ship together. And at that point in time ups knew that 108 00:08:31.330 --> 00:08:38.450 if they wanted to be the global logistics supply chain provider, they 109 00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:44.110 needed to have their ship together, get their ship together. And so it was so 110 00:08:44.110 --> 00:08:48.250 the employees were hearing this at the same time and it rallied everyone 111 00:08:48.250 --> 00:08:52.770 around a tent pole. That's interesting. So it's very much a rallying cry that 112 00:08:52.770 --> 00:08:56.420 everybody behind, not only internally externally, but it's important for 113 00:08:56.420 --> 00:09:00.440 people to know, here's why we're here, here's how we started, here's why we're 114 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.430 here, how, why we come to work in the morning. These are the things that 115 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:10.700 people that identify us, whether it's quick service or brown truck, and here 116 00:09:10.700 --> 00:09:14.610 are the things that we do, the processes that we have that make us 117 00:09:14.610 --> 00:09:18.860 unique and special. Here are the words that we use to describe all of this, 118 00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:24.170 which are unique and special. And usually, and then here's what we're not 119 00:09:24.170 --> 00:09:28.440 never want to become, which is a critically important. And then and then 120 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.750 here's here's the leader, here's who's leading the way and who is usually the 121 00:09:33.750 --> 00:09:38.490 person who set out against all odds in order to recreate the world according 122 00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:41.790 to their own point of view. And so that's Henry ford, that's thomas. 123 00:09:41.790 --> 00:09:48.640 Edison, That's steve jobs, that's, you know, and Jeff Bezos and so the once 124 00:09:48.640 --> 00:09:52.520 you pull all those together into a narrative into a story, once you 125 00:09:52.520 --> 00:09:56.700 identify them, excuse me, that's their first step is to deconstruct them and 126 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:00.770 make sure to deconstruct the brand and make sure that they have all of these 127 00:10:00.770 --> 00:10:05.440 pieces in place, then we distribute them across social digital and 128 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:11.930 traditional media, so that customers and people inside understand who we are 129 00:10:11.930 --> 00:10:12.960 and what we're about. 130 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.910 It sounds a lot like Simon cynics, the golden circles with y in the middle at 131 00:10:18.910 --> 00:10:23.130 the creed and the Y are essentially that same answer except the Y. Is just 132 00:10:23.130 --> 00:10:27.710 the creed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are six other pieces Simon doesn't talk 133 00:10:27.710 --> 00:10:31.060 about but we do. What are those six other pieces? 134 00:10:33.180 --> 00:10:38.370 The creed is the why the creation story. Okay, so it's the primal code. It's the 135 00:10:38.370 --> 00:10:43.670 primal code. Creation story, created icons, rituals, lexicon or sacred words, 136 00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:46.560 pagans, non believers and leader. 137 00:10:48.540 --> 00:10:52.700 That makes sense. What are some of the exercises you walk through to help 138 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:57.010 customers find a strong creed when there's not one that's just evident. 139 00:10:57.020 --> 00:10:59.990 There's not a great creation story, It's like the creation stories we 140 00:10:59.990 --> 00:11:03.430 wanted to make money and it's just this opportunity came and we started making 141 00:11:03.430 --> 00:11:06.990 money business to start like that. It was an opportunity we saw and did it 142 00:11:06.990 --> 00:11:10.560 and now it's evolved to be something big. But our brand needs some help. 143 00:11:11.040 --> 00:11:15.780 Well the you hit it on the head because that's the hardest one to come up with 144 00:11:15.790 --> 00:11:20.550 I think. And that's why. So I'm in the why and the why is sometimes 145 00:11:20.550 --> 00:11:25.130 unexplainable, inexplicable and very difficult to come up with. And then 146 00:11:25.130 --> 00:11:31.030 what do you do with it once you figure it out? And so the we do a lot of work 147 00:11:31.030 --> 00:11:34.770 with people who have explored the y in great detail but don't know what else 148 00:11:34.770 --> 00:11:38.980 to do now. And so the things that yeah, we were with one group of people at 149 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:42.460 Microsoft, they created a billion dollar enterprise was already 150 00:11:42.460 --> 00:11:45.960 successful. We spent the next three hours discussing why they came into 151 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:50.810 work in the morning and it's very and even then it was a little bit up to 152 00:11:50.810 --> 00:11:57.420 question but the create is it's not the mission. Sometimes it becomes the 153 00:11:57.420 --> 00:12:04.580 tagline. Usually it's something that's been winnowed down or whittled down by 154 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:11.310 generations of copywriters whose job it's been, it has been to really 155 00:12:11.310 --> 00:12:16.300 condense it down into a couple of words. Sometimes it's one word. H. P. S. Word 156 00:12:16.300 --> 00:12:20.350 for a while was invented. So when you were driving onto the campus at HP 157 00:12:20.350 --> 00:12:24.300 every morning you knew why you were their think different same thing. It 158 00:12:24.300 --> 00:12:29.710 really coalesced the Apple's reason for being at that time. And so they're 159 00:12:29.710 --> 00:12:33.530 getting it down to one or two words or five words or whatever. It is, a very 160 00:12:33.530 --> 00:12:38.470 difficult and painstaking process and sometimes you need real professionals 161 00:12:38.470 --> 00:12:45.340 to get to that. But I should point out that none of this costs any money to do. 162 00:12:45.350 --> 00:12:49.500 There was a great example, I was speaking to a president before the book 163 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:55.060 came out in 2000. This is by the way, the 20th 20th anniversary of when I 164 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:59.970 Came up with primal code, primal branding back in 2001 in the summer of 165 00:12:59.970 --> 00:13:05.740 2001 and just real quick I was I perfected it during or whatever thought 166 00:13:05.740 --> 00:13:11.420 of it during june july august I didn't do anything because I was Living in 167 00:13:11.420 --> 00:13:15.370 Connecticut at the time and no one does anything in New York during the month 168 00:13:15.370 --> 00:13:20.590 of August except go to the shore and I made a few appointments for September 169 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:26.480 and then September 11 happened And in 2001 and nobody really cared about a 170 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:31.340 new branding idea at that time. And so I just put it on the back burner and 171 00:13:31.340 --> 00:13:37.180 got busy like everyone else. And I gave a speech about it one time and and 172 00:13:37.180 --> 00:13:41.410 someone induced me to go find an agent and get the book written. So anyway, I 173 00:13:41.410 --> 00:13:45.240 used to talk though, it used to be a subject that I would talk about it when 174 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:49.360 I was invited to give a speech. And so I was talking to a president's circle, 175 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:56.760 a group of people. And when one of the guys heard that, oh you can use these 176 00:13:56.770 --> 00:14:01.060 pieces of primal code to create culture inside of the organization. He 177 00:14:01.060 --> 00:14:04.830 immediately went back to the office and wrote down his creation stories, create 178 00:14:04.830 --> 00:14:09.580 his icons when his rituals were with their special language was I think he 179 00:14:09.580 --> 00:14:14.050 came up with some additional rituals at the time, but he wasn't and They didn't 180 00:14:14.050 --> 00:14:17.260 want to become what they didn't want to become. And he of course was the leader 181 00:14:17.270 --> 00:14:24.970 was a tech company. They were worth about $2 million. Two or $3 million He 182 00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:30.650 built it into uh, $12 million dollar organization, at which point he sold it 183 00:14:32.040 --> 00:14:38.420 and to some people. But he kept his stock and so nine months later the 184 00:14:38.420 --> 00:14:43.420 people who sold it to so flipped it and sold it again for 100 and $50 million 185 00:14:43.420 --> 00:14:46.580 because the people who bought it said they could not recreate the college 186 00:14:46.590 --> 00:14:51.190 that organization had and there's a case study right of B two B tech 187 00:14:51.190 --> 00:14:56.290 company and uh, how primal works and it didn't cost them anything to do. Just 188 00:14:56.300 --> 00:15:00.940 like I said earlier, they instituted a couple of new rituals and like beer 189 00:15:00.940 --> 00:15:04.290 varieties or something like that. And went on from there. Another word for 190 00:15:04.290 --> 00:15:09.310 ritual by the way is process. So the, we had another case in point where we 191 00:15:09.310 --> 00:15:14.160 worked with a Conservancy in kenya called Nebo show and help them 192 00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:18.910 straighten out their code and tell their story and there was, and is no 193 00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:25.830 marketing person there and we won the in 2016 a few years ago now the gold 194 00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:32.760 award for Ecotourism for Africa for the continent of Africa with zero budget, 195 00:15:33.640 --> 00:15:38.760 nothing. And so against all the hotels, all the tourism boards of all the 196 00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:44.110 countries, all the airlines, of all the countries and anyone else involved, 197 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:50.020 it's really about storytelling and the, as is probably obvious by now. But the 198 00:15:50.030 --> 00:15:54.640 thing is that from the moment we're born, we're told stories were told that 199 00:15:54.640 --> 00:15:59.000 we're a boy or a girl. we belong in this family, here's your room, we're in 200 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:05.000 this neighborhood, this city, this state, this country, this planet and 201 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.410 we're told, we're going to school or whatever as we grow older, we're told 202 00:16:08.410 --> 00:16:12.080 what we're good at, what we're bad at and we start to wrap all of these 203 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.190 stories around us. And then of course at some point in time we might discover 204 00:16:16.190 --> 00:16:20.250 that some of these stories we've been told are not true or they can be 205 00:16:20.260 --> 00:16:26.830 rewritten or we tear them up or want to tear them up. And so we do the same 206 00:16:26.830 --> 00:16:32.180 thing with products. We give them a story and that story maybe 207 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.420 believable or not believable or people might believe it or tend not to believe 208 00:16:37.420 --> 00:16:41.860 it. And what's happening now in marketing is that people don't believe 209 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:47.410 us. They don't believe marketing, communications or advertising, 90 210 00:16:47.410 --> 00:16:52.680 80-90% of people think it's a lie And what we tell them is a lie. But they 80, 211 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:56.990 also believe, do believe what their parents tell them about a product or 212 00:16:56.990 --> 00:17:03.050 service and that's where getting the stars and so forth and testimonials and 213 00:17:03.050 --> 00:17:07.300 consumer reviews has become so important. I used to write Super Bowl 214 00:17:07.300 --> 00:17:12.260 commercials and These days I would suggest that you should take your $2 215 00:17:12.260 --> 00:17:16.630 million dollars and invested in getting another star or getting some more 216 00:17:16.630 --> 00:17:20.589 community consumer reviews and get your ratings up because that would probably 217 00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:25.619 be more effective out there in the marketplace aside from the seats that 218 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:30.700 you might be getting at the Super Bowl, you, you mentioned before that there 219 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:35.270 were some exercises, you take customers through to help find beliefs, help find 220 00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:40.440 why and they're not the full process and it takes exercises alone, don't 221 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.570 give you the answer. But what are some of those exercises you've used that 222 00:17:43.570 --> 00:17:49.040 have been helpful to your, we go back when someone has been really, we use 223 00:17:49.040 --> 00:17:53.030 non believers a lot. When someone, when a company is stuck, it could be a 224 00:17:53.030 --> 00:17:57.630 startup, that stock or it could be a company that's 100 years old and 225 00:17:57.630 --> 00:18:02.510 they're trying to find, become relevant to a new marketplace like gen Z or 226 00:18:02.510 --> 00:18:07.580 something, millennials or whatever. And or it could be just, the product is no 227 00:18:07.580 --> 00:18:15.270 longer relevant. And so the, we go back and we find out, help them figure out 228 00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:21.120 well, how about this? And they go, no, we don't want to do that. And so, well, 229 00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:26.420 how about this? No, I don't think so. And so how about this? Maybe? And so we 230 00:18:26.430 --> 00:18:32.160 work them backwards into a space where it might be a corner, but at least it's 231 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:36.630 a starting point becomes a starting point for, okay, you do like this. You 232 00:18:36.630 --> 00:18:40.570 do want to go there. And so then we build from that. Another thing is just 233 00:18:40.570 --> 00:18:45.240 going back to in their history, going back and figuring out their original 234 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.070 reason for being, why did they exist? What was the point of difference back 235 00:18:49.070 --> 00:18:49.560 then? 236 00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:58.900 And sometimes it's very functional but it became their reason for being and 237 00:18:58.900 --> 00:19:02.810 hey, by the way that's the reason for being still applies. A great example of 238 00:19:02.810 --> 00:19:08.020 that is Motorola, which they used to build radios and then they stopped 239 00:19:08.020 --> 00:19:11.980 building radios and then cell phones came along and by the way a cellphone, 240 00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:19.400 mobile phone is a radio and so that gave them the credibility to go back 241 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:24.870 and build little radios, make cell phones, make mobile phones. And so 242 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.610 sometimes that's where it is for HP was they started out winding coils 243 00:19:29.620 --> 00:19:32.960 something you have me thinking a lot about as I was reading the book was the 244 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:38.100 idea around pagans and non believers almost fine for a lot of story creation 245 00:19:38.110 --> 00:19:43.080 like defining the anti eyes almost helps to find what you stand for. I 246 00:19:43.080 --> 00:19:46.410 think you said it a moment ago and even finding your creed by defining the 247 00:19:46.410 --> 00:19:50.740 nonbelievers, sometimes you can find the creed. What do you feel like it 248 00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:54.840 fits in an idea on the table? I think been made popular though he didn't 249 00:19:54.840 --> 00:19:58.370 invent it was Donald miller about having a villain in this story. Is it 250 00:19:58.370 --> 00:20:04.400 better to find maybe a competitor or maybe an idea that your competitor 251 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.180 stands for to villainize? How do you go about looking for the non believers of 252 00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:12.200 the villain or things to stand well having a villain. Yeah. Donald 253 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:18.160 certainly didn't invent it. The, having the villain is crucial in terms of 254 00:20:18.740 --> 00:20:24.740 building drama and having something to stand against planting your flag. And 255 00:20:24.740 --> 00:20:31.470 so the but we have found more positive things regarding the villain. In other 256 00:20:31.470 --> 00:20:36.420 words, if you can identify a group of people who can't have sugar, you can 257 00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:40.580 invent sugar free, create that. If you can identify a group of people who 258 00:20:40.580 --> 00:20:46.490 don't want to eat meat, you can create new food stuffs and new food sources. 259 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:52.920 Even hashtag quinoa, if you can invent or create, identify a group of people 260 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:58.750 who don't want to drive gas guzzling SUVs, you can create new kinds of cars 261 00:20:58.750 --> 00:21:03.900 and new kinds of energy and so on from there totally new ecosystems. So that's 262 00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:11.420 a blue ocean approach to it. We've also, we have used it to help people find 263 00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:15.270 their way back strategically to find their way back to being becoming 264 00:21:15.270 --> 00:21:16.550 relevant all over again. 265 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:23.560 I find that the leader can be a difficult thing sometimes to deal with 266 00:21:23.560 --> 00:21:28.190 when looking at a brand. How critical is a leader to the primal code and can 267 00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:30.560 you have a strong brand without having a strong leader, 268 00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:37.260 You can have a strong brand I think, but it's more difficult. Certainly 269 00:21:37.260 --> 00:21:43.600 there are the front page headline driving leaders, bas osas and Elon musk 270 00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:47.940 and Oprah Winfrey and Jack Welch when he was still around and other people 271 00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:54.050 like that. But you'll notice that without strong leadership, some of 272 00:21:54.050 --> 00:22:01.960 those companies like IBM for example, tend to recede in lieu of those people 273 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:06.790 who are out in front. And so I think it's important, it's tricky these days 274 00:22:06.790 --> 00:22:11.670 because some leaders, if you're, some leaders come out of the sales 275 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:15.000 department where they are very gregarious and they're talkative and 276 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.380 don't mind being in front of the camera. There are other people just because of 277 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:22.280 the state of things in the state of investment in technology who are former 278 00:22:22.280 --> 00:22:28.640 C. I. O. S. Or C. Fos, who are not as gregarious or talkative or, and more 279 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:33.090 shy reclusive. That does not necessarily help the organization, I 280 00:22:33.090 --> 00:22:39.850 would say. And so, uh, the thing that we tend to ask people to do, even if 281 00:22:39.850 --> 00:22:45.800 they are not the leader is to, in other words, you're the marketing manager or 282 00:22:45.800 --> 00:22:50.670 your head of sales or something is to promote your own brand, 283 00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:56.350 go out there and get your own personal brand, yes, and go out there, get the 284 00:22:56.350 --> 00:23:01.340 photos, take, do some talks, write some articles, write some blogs, whatever do 285 00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:07.430 some blogs, whatever it is that you can help support you in your career because 286 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.120 people don't stay at the same job for 30 years anymore. And ultimately, we 287 00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:17.720 just saw that recently how companies determine who's who's vital and who's 288 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:24.450 not, who's expendable. And so the ultimate goal is to not is to shape 289 00:23:24.450 --> 00:23:25.270 your own future. 290 00:23:27.140 --> 00:23:31.110 So that makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense for a personal brand and 291 00:23:31.110 --> 00:23:35.370 you are the leader of your own personal brand when it comes to a company, would 292 00:23:35.370 --> 00:23:39.120 you say it's safer to diversify by maybe bringing up a number of thought 293 00:23:39.120 --> 00:23:42.510 leaders, some people call them personalities, but essentially your 294 00:23:42.510 --> 00:23:47.600 faces of the company or is it better to hunt and groom and find the one that 295 00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:52.540 might be the ceo, it might be your key subject matter expert. Yeah, I think 296 00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:56.420 that depends totally on what industry you're in, what category you're in. But 297 00:23:56.420 --> 00:24:00.490 I think that and what your culture, there are two, several people, I think 298 00:24:00.490 --> 00:24:05.460 that I'm not gonna point out, I'm not gonna name names but that they have 299 00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:10.410 totally promoted themselves and built their own personal brand while being at 300 00:24:10.410 --> 00:24:16.570 large organizations and and they did exactly what I just described. And so I 301 00:24:16.570 --> 00:24:22.260 think that sometimes helps the organization sometimes is despite the 302 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:27.060 organization, but I think it's incredibly necessary in today's world. 303 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.640 That's fantastic. And we do that a lot with sweet fish and it's something, 304 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:35.860 it's certainly an idea. We promote a lot is building employees brands out 305 00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:40.660 and I think that your, your organization is better for it as long 306 00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:44.740 as that person is that your organization organization and that 307 00:24:44.750 --> 00:24:50.030 certainly we looked at places like google for their X for example, for 308 00:24:50.030 --> 00:24:54.740 their expertise and having a laundry list of great people who are working 309 00:24:54.740 --> 00:25:01.410 there or facebook or amazon or anyplace else. And so the, the aggregation of 310 00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:05.650 terrific people who have thoughts, who have ideas sparks the entire 311 00:25:05.650 --> 00:25:11.580 organization, I think so I think it's organizationally fundamental at this 312 00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:19.230 point in time to think about the grooming and um thought leadership that 313 00:25:19.230 --> 00:25:22.300 your organization provides and that's what we're talking about really is 314 00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:27.120 thought leadership. Thought leaders. And so it's it's good for the 315 00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:30.580 organization as a whole. I think it revs everyone up, look at someone like 316 00:25:30.580 --> 00:25:36.560 Virgil Ablow who just died last week, unfortunately who has went to joint 317 00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:41.660 building um age. And I think that he helped spark the whole organization. 318 00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:47.040 And I think that with his passing, you can see that people are a week later 319 00:25:47.050 --> 00:25:52.380 people are still talking about it and what he did, even though he was not out 320 00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:56.590 in front all the time and some people may not even know who he is or what he 321 00:25:56.590 --> 00:25:58.150 accomplished. But yeah, 322 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:05.090 let's talk about rituals. You define a ritual as possibly a problem. It could 323 00:26:05.090 --> 00:26:07.880 just be a process, but it's something that's happening habitually, it's 324 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.090 something that's going on over and over again with beginning to identify 325 00:26:11.090 --> 00:26:15.730 rituals that could be part of a greater part of the story and a part of the 326 00:26:15.730 --> 00:26:20.720 brand. Do you look for processes that already exist that you can then brand 327 00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:25.080 or do you try to invent them or even try to map the brand onto maybe habits, 328 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:29.140 your, your ideal buyer's already, first of all rituals are repeated 329 00:26:29.150 --> 00:26:33.760 interactions or engagements that we have either internally or externally. 330 00:26:33.770 --> 00:26:37.500 So when they're internally their processes, if they're externally, it's 331 00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:42.670 you X user experience customer experiences. And so the we want those 332 00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:47.830 to be positive, right? Because every contact point that our customer has 333 00:26:47.830 --> 00:26:53.980 with us, we want to be positive. And just imagine all the marketing efforts 334 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:59.810 that have been spoiled because someone visitors visits our office and the 335 00:26:59.810 --> 00:27:04.050 receptionist is having a bad cancels out every positive thing that all this 336 00:27:04.060 --> 00:27:08.520 grooming that you've done out there in terms of your brand and brand messaging. 337 00:27:08.530 --> 00:27:12.870 But anyway, the and same as they get someone on the phone who's rude or is 338 00:27:12.870 --> 00:27:18.440 having a bad day. So you want your rituals to be positive. What I usually 339 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.670 do at this point in time, If I'm standing in front of our a group of 340 00:27:22.670 --> 00:27:30.370 people is I call you line. Your line is a for those who don't know, they sell 341 00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:37.420 waste baskets and mops and packing tape and the rudiments of the supply room 342 00:27:37.430 --> 00:27:43.690 basically. And If once you call you line you get someone on the phone and 343 00:27:43.690 --> 00:27:46.860 you can order something within 60 seconds. 344 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.090 A real human being gets on the phone and you can order something within 60 345 00:27:52.090 --> 00:27:57.770 seconds and you hang up and you think to yourself, it occurs to you, why 346 00:27:57.770 --> 00:28:03.270 can't the credit card companies do that? Why can't the banks do that? Why can't 347 00:28:03.280 --> 00:28:08.200 the airlines do that because and once upon, once I gave that example and I 348 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.120 actually called you line, we ordered something within 60 seconds, less than 349 00:28:12.120 --> 00:28:17.160 60 seconds And someone in the crowd rattled off all the systems that needed 350 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:21.020 to be in place in order for the line to do that. And there were four or five 351 00:28:21.030 --> 00:28:25.210 unique things but the, but still they're also, it's all available. You 352 00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:26.770 just have to link it all together. 353 00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:34.660 So that's rituals and so the rituals are important because you want those 354 00:28:34.670 --> 00:28:39.480 interactions to be positive and you want to remove in Silicon Valley, we 355 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:43.020 talk about, we want to want to remove the pain points and when we're building 356 00:28:43.020 --> 00:28:47.970 apps and so forth. And so it's really a process of removing all the pain points 357 00:28:47.970 --> 00:28:49.260 to create that 358 00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:55.600 very positive because we're going for user reviews and we're going for user 359 00:28:55.600 --> 00:28:59.930 stars and get those removed the pain points. So we get as as positive an 360 00:28:59.930 --> 00:29:05.700 experience as possible. And you saw the thing here is to go through rituals are 361 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:08.590 not only the repeated interactions but there are also the things that we 362 00:29:08.590 --> 00:29:12.030 celebrate just in the world. The holidays are coming up here as we're 363 00:29:12.030 --> 00:29:16.390 recording this and people are going crazy not only about buying gifts and 364 00:29:16.390 --> 00:29:20.320 so forth, but we're coming up with celebrations almost universally across 365 00:29:20.330 --> 00:29:24.980 around the world china will have its New year and India's just had Diwali 366 00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:30.500 and so forth. These are human things and we want to celebrate things. We 367 00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:35.480 have a need to celebrate things and we were trying to motivate employees 368 00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:40.970 celebrating their piques. Hopefully not valleys celebrating their 369 00:29:40.970 --> 00:29:46.370 accomplishments is germane to building employee morale and feeling people 370 00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:51.430 helping people feel that they are, that their work is valuable and meaningful 371 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.400 and that they are contributing something so that have more incentive 372 00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.860 or motivated to move forward 373 00:29:59.060 --> 00:30:01.360 and coming to work in the morning and not quit this week 374 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:04.160 water rate. 375 00:30:08.140 --> 00:30:14.050 Do you find that when you're looking at a ritual and improving maybe something 376 00:30:14.050 --> 00:30:18.660 external to us that you're trying to map it back or try to find ways to map 377 00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:23.440 it back to the creed and maps some of your interesting beliefs. It's not only 378 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:28.130 how can we make the user experience good, it's how do we make weird as in 379 00:30:28.230 --> 00:30:33.730 it aligns with how we perceive things. It aligns with our creed. So are pagans 380 00:30:33.730 --> 00:30:37.330 would not like this ritual because it doesn't, they don't believe what we 381 00:30:37.330 --> 00:30:42.180 believe. So our rituals might be a little different. Sorry there trying to 382 00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:47.280 pull it off the Yes, absolutely. Everything is what we're trying to do 383 00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:51.090 here is we're trying to take something that is meaningless, basically 384 00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:56.770 meaningless in trying to make it meaningful. Each piece of primal code. 385 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:03.840 Whether it's the created creation story, icons, rituals lexicon nonbelievers or 386 00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:06.860 leader is trying to make this 387 00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:13.160 person place or thing more meaningful to people. And so 388 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:19.580 we are trying to do things that when we put the code in place. Each piece of 389 00:31:19.580 --> 00:31:23.980 code is going to be unique and differentiating. First of all, some 390 00:31:23.980 --> 00:31:27.700 things might be similar. We still have a coffee shop and there are 1000 other 391 00:31:27.700 --> 00:31:32.350 coffee coffee shops but we're trying to build in things that make us unique 392 00:31:32.630 --> 00:31:37.980 even if it's just the people behind the counter. And so the once we accomplish 393 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:42.770 that, so it's incremental. These successes are incremental, the points 394 00:31:42.770 --> 00:31:47.910 of differentiation are incremental. All of these pieces are unique and they can 395 00:31:47.910 --> 00:31:52.720 be incremental and we're making improvements and moving things because 396 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.590 we live in moments today, we want to make those moments positive and we make 397 00:31:56.600 --> 00:32:02.840 one so we do things incrementally and each increment really counts, whereas 398 00:32:02.850 --> 00:32:07.230 in previous times it may not have counted. So when we're online we want 399 00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:10.220 to have positive experiences and we want to repeat those positive 400 00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:15.450 experiences and those celebrations in real life too. So when we're going I. R. 401 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:22.620 L. We want to those that experience to mimic what's happening online and vice 402 00:32:22.620 --> 00:32:23.170 versa, 403 00:32:25.340 --> 00:32:26.660 Especially in B two B. 404 00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:32.340 When I think about brands, everybody can have a logo, let's say Hyatt Hotels 405 00:32:32.340 --> 00:32:37.810 has a logo, but there's nothing you don't really expect. It doesn't really 406 00:32:37.810 --> 00:32:40.680 mean anything beyond the fact that it stands for that company versus a 407 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:44.410 different hotel. In fact, most hotels don't really have strong brand, you can 408 00:32:44.410 --> 00:32:47.820 swap their logos back and forth on the buildings and most people wouldn't be 409 00:32:47.820 --> 00:32:51.850 able to tell one from the other. I think the idea behind it is that the 410 00:32:52.340 --> 00:32:55.790 creed and the things that make the brand really different is what makes 411 00:32:55.790 --> 00:33:00.250 the brand rather than a nice looking building with a nice looking logo. I 412 00:33:00.250 --> 00:33:04.240 think it's the total experience. Yeah, right. There are a zillion hotels that 413 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:08.250 mean nothing to us. But if you go to a W or you go to a four seasons or you 414 00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:13.160 could go to other some other special hotels, let's say where they do pay 415 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.060 attention to these things and they do 416 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:19.790 create moments 417 00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:25.660 that are special. Whether I still remember when it's just flashed on me 418 00:33:25.660 --> 00:33:31.020 as we were getting out of the car at the W Hotel in Beverly Hills and the 419 00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:36.670 guy said, open the door to the car and he said, hello Mr Krauser. Mr Krauser 420 00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:39.360 had not been at the W hotel in three years, 421 00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:47.130 so that's the level of service that's provided the W hotel. And if you look 422 00:33:47.130 --> 00:33:53.520 at that meaningless moment really, it's meaningless to me anyway, and and but 423 00:33:53.520 --> 00:33:57.700 very meaningful to him and you add all those together times, all of the people 424 00:33:57.700 --> 00:34:01.270 that go to W hotels that you can probably look forward to. A very 425 00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:03.270 pleasant experience there. 426 00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:09.690 To wrap up the interview. I'd love to ask like when people are working on 427 00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:13.060 building a primal brand for their company, 428 00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:19.340 what are some usual hang ups, they get on like things that throw them off from 429 00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:23.350 being able to develop a strong primal brand. Can we talk about first steps? 430 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:28.070 The because I think the first steps are important because this is a systematic 431 00:34:28.070 --> 00:34:33.300 approach to building a brand and and it's you're really building the root 432 00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:37.980 code for authentic brands when you do this, but you need to deconstruct the 433 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:42.120 brand into its seven pieces, the creation story that created the icons, 434 00:34:42.120 --> 00:34:47.510 the rituals, the lexicon, non believers and leader and identify okay, things 435 00:34:47.510 --> 00:34:51.719 that you have in place in things where there might be gaps. A lot of times 436 00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:55.250 there are gaps if you're a startup, so you have to fill it in if you're 100 437 00:34:55.250 --> 00:35:00.410 year old brand or company, you may have some things, but they've grown rusty 438 00:35:00.420 --> 00:35:05.760 over time. And that's what how brands grow stale, That's how you become Sears. 439 00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:11.330 And so the thing that you want to do is you have to refresh them and by the way, 440 00:35:11.330 --> 00:35:15.550 it's not enough along with that growing stale piece, it's not enough to just 441 00:35:15.550 --> 00:35:21.020 identify them, but you really do have to reinvigorate them or re in re 442 00:35:21.020 --> 00:35:27.510 energize them over time. You can't just let them stay follow like that. 443 00:35:27.520 --> 00:35:32.760 Remember that Yes, the creation story is the creation story, but the next 444 00:35:33.940 --> 00:35:39.490 goal or objective is how do you distribute them across social digital 445 00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:46.060 and traditional media and facebook's creation story became a movie, social 446 00:35:46.060 --> 00:35:54.630 network beats by dre became a piece on netflix called the defiant ones about 447 00:35:54.630 --> 00:35:59.060 jimmy, I wien and dr dre Andrew young and how they 448 00:36:00.230 --> 00:36:04.830 started themselves personally as music producers and then how that that became 449 00:36:04.830 --> 00:36:08.610 them, ultimately became them joining together to build beats. One of the few 450 00:36:08.610 --> 00:36:15.100 brands that reached a billion dollars in three years, you have to go wide and 451 00:36:15.100 --> 00:36:18.620 be unexpected zig when others zag just like you would in any other 452 00:36:18.630 --> 00:36:23.240 communication strategy and and try to fill in those blanks and become 453 00:36:23.240 --> 00:36:27.580 relevant and become resident and energize the organism. All these seven 454 00:36:27.580 --> 00:36:32.720 of these pieces thing together, help build a belief system so that this is 455 00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:36.430 something that people believe in. They're motivated. They're energized, 456 00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:42.240 they get excited, they celebrate, they talk, they tell other people about 457 00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:47.490 where they work and how is it going at work? Great. Where do you work again? 458 00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:53.160 You tell them and I want to work there too. And so that's how you are able to 459 00:36:53.160 --> 00:36:59.610 really build something that listen, the If you're a founder or it's a family 460 00:36:59.610 --> 00:37:05.780 enterprise or something, you will work there. You know, for 20 years, let's 461 00:37:05.780 --> 00:37:09.460 say at the end of 20 years, you could either have a company that has a 462 00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:16.440 building and equipment and some employees and sell it for X. Or during 463 00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:21.020 that same amount of time. You could have created a brand that also has 464 00:37:21.020 --> 00:37:26.760 building and assets, employees and employees, but it's worth 10 x. So 465 00:37:26.770 --> 00:37:33.220 which would you rather cash out with X or 10 x. And we all know that Brain go 466 00:37:33.220 --> 00:37:37.010 for 10 X. They go for um ultimately might not go for 10 X. But they go for 467 00:37:37.010 --> 00:37:43.170 a multiple many times X. And so that's a great reason for doing it. The other 468 00:37:43.170 --> 00:37:47.670 reason is of course you get to hire the people that you want to hire because 469 00:37:47.670 --> 00:37:51.810 they want to come to work to you, they look for you instead of you having to 470 00:37:51.810 --> 00:37:55.150 go out and seek them out. So there are other efficiencies that happened along 471 00:37:55.150 --> 00:38:00.810 the way as well. So it just makes life easier, the long run and it doesn't 472 00:38:00.810 --> 00:38:01.950 have to cost anything. 473 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:08.840 It's probably the most practical thing that I I think most people listening to 474 00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:13.520 this can take away. If you take the primal code and the seven different 475 00:38:13.520 --> 00:38:18.250 elements, you can literally just go one by one and ask which ones are we 476 00:38:18.250 --> 00:38:22.240 already doing, which ones are we missing, which ones have gotten rusty 477 00:38:22.250 --> 00:38:25.540 if the audience is listening and if there's anything you can take away that 478 00:38:25.540 --> 00:38:28.570 is like actionable. That is the one thing you could probably do this week 479 00:38:28.570 --> 00:38:32.380 with your team and have an understanding of what you can do next 480 00:38:32.390 --> 00:38:36.160 to improve your brand or at least start brainstorming on how to improve your 481 00:38:36.160 --> 00:38:41.320 brand to fill in some gaps or refresh what's been sitting and growing old for 482 00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:41.750 a while 483 00:38:43.020 --> 00:38:48.660 and if you think about Apple Starbucks, Nike amazon etcetera etcetera every day 484 00:38:48.670 --> 00:38:51.620 if you're an Apple person, you hear about the phone, you hear about the 485 00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:55.020 stock price, you hear about what tim Cook's doing, you hear about some other 486 00:38:55.020 --> 00:39:01.330 aspect but what's in the future and you, so they are pinging, but because it's 487 00:39:01.330 --> 00:39:05.200 the stock price, it's financing because it's Tim Cook was personal branding, 488 00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:10.050 maybe personality branding, that's I. T. V. Or something like that, that's or I 489 00:39:10.050 --> 00:39:12.810 cars, I suppose it's the new one, something else that's happening out 490 00:39:12.810 --> 00:39:18.350 there, they're pinging different parts of your brain and and it's much 491 00:39:18.350 --> 00:39:21.510 different than the Energizer bunny which is still saying the same thing 492 00:39:21.510 --> 00:39:28.670 banging the drum 20 years later and I don't know maybe that may be effective 493 00:39:28.670 --> 00:39:32.640 too, but I certainly prefer to hear something about apple or amazon than I 494 00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:36.600 do hearing from something from the Energizer bunny. So Patrick, this has 495 00:39:36.600 --> 00:39:40.270 been fantastic to know about your primal branding book, I know there was 496 00:39:40.270 --> 00:39:44.280 another book you wanted to talk about in order to get our audience familiar 497 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:48.080 with it to, do you want to talk about that a little bit? Sure, so primal 498 00:39:48.080 --> 00:39:52.340 branding, just so people know is required reading at Youtube has been 499 00:39:52.340 --> 00:39:57.640 for several years, so when people stars, celebrities, companies go to youtube 500 00:39:57.640 --> 00:40:00.860 and asked how can we create billion views and they are sent to primal 501 00:40:00.860 --> 00:40:04.410 branding or at least if they're not sent to it there, the people had 502 00:40:04.410 --> 00:40:08.680 youtube refer to the principles that you just, I heard about one of those 503 00:40:08.680 --> 00:40:15.820 people is Darrell leaves at so there's a culture or a mini tribe of Youtubers 504 00:40:16.610 --> 00:40:20.130 who teach other Youtubers how to use primal branding. One of those people is 505 00:40:20.130 --> 00:40:24.160 Darrell leaves E v E S. He has a new book out that just came out called the 506 00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:30.680 Youtube Formula, which I would recommend to everyone because in here, 507 00:40:30.690 --> 00:40:36.700 Daryl is, I just asked him last the other day if he was felt he was an 508 00:40:36.700 --> 00:40:40.790 analytics person or a creative person and he said, well a creative person 509 00:40:40.790 --> 00:40:44.870 because who wouldn't want to be a creative person rather than an 510 00:40:44.870 --> 00:40:50.740 analytics person. But anyway the numbers cruncher but the but Darryl is 511 00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:56.590 a multiple threat. He does both excellently. And he also uses Primal 512 00:40:56.600 --> 00:41:01.540 and he has written a new book called Youtube formula where he goes into not 513 00:41:01.540 --> 00:41:07.620 only how to use Youtube's analytics And work with those algorithms rather than 514 00:41:07.620 --> 00:41:12.310 try to hack them, which does not work, which ultimately fails, but he a 515 00:41:12.310 --> 00:41:19.330 chapter 18 and devotes to primal branding because he used primal too 516 00:41:19.710 --> 00:41:26.780 create the record breaking crowdfunding. Some broke all records and raised over 517 00:41:26.780 --> 00:41:31.670 $10 million in crowdfunding using primal Code creation story, create 518 00:41:31.670 --> 00:41:38.200 icons, rituals, sacred words, nonbelievers and leader to do that. I 519 00:41:38.200 --> 00:41:42.040 will say it is you mentioned it before the pre interview and I was like yes, I 520 00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:46.820 actually have this book, I've read this book and it is a fantastic book. 521 00:41:46.830 --> 00:41:51.070 Anybody who's getting into video period even if it's not, youtube needs to read 522 00:41:51.070 --> 00:41:54.560 the book, there's a lot that goes beyond youtube. But of course anything 523 00:41:54.560 --> 00:41:58.430 youtube is like if anybody's getting to youtube then this is like gonna be the 524 00:41:58.430 --> 00:42:02.750 bible. I thought the discussion, whole discussion of how we used social media 525 00:42:02.750 --> 00:42:07.840 and not just do too by the way, but how it integrates with how we used facebook 526 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.760 and instagram and I'm leaving something out. But anyway, the other social media 527 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:17.050 as well is a perfect example of how you distribute code across social digital 528 00:42:17.050 --> 00:42:20.500 and traditional media by the way includes not just television 529 00:42:20.510 --> 00:42:26.220 advertising on tv but outdoor advertising. Pr and so forth. So email 530 00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:29.460 Patrick, this has been a great interview where can people connect with 531 00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:34.160 you online, Primal branding dot Ceo Also we have a pretty good I think 532 00:42:34.170 --> 00:42:40.210 instagram at primal branding and you be the judge and follow us please. And 533 00:42:40.210 --> 00:42:44.910 then of course those, I think those are the two, but we also write on medium 534 00:42:44.910 --> 00:42:48.730 and I used to write for Forbes but I got tired of that writing for medium 535 00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:56.300 now and yeah, google me Patrick, hanlon, H A N L O N Yeah, fantastic. Thanks 536 00:42:56.300 --> 00:42:59.980 again for joining me on GDP growth. Oh thanks a lot dan. It's been great 537 00:42:59.990 --> 00:43:01.320 pleasure being here. Thanks so much