The 4 B2B Podcast Strategies (& How to Pick the Right One)

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.850 welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweet fish media. I'm 3 00:00:08.850 --> 00:00:12.330 joined today by dan Sanchez. If you're a regular listener of this show, you 4 00:00:12.330 --> 00:00:15.820 know him, he's our director of audience growth and one of the primary co host 5 00:00:15.820 --> 00:00:20.450 of this show. I think this is the very first time he and I are together on an 6 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:23.920 episode. Just the two of us dan. How's it going today man? Dude, I can't 7 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.280 believe it's been, I've been working here and doing podcast episodes for 8 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:31.560 well over a year and we, this is our first episode together. It's crazy. We 9 00:00:31.560 --> 00:00:34.990 need to make this more of a habit. We're kicking it off today with 10 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.700 something I'm really excited about. You've been socializing this on 11 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:42.590 linkedin. I've been socializing it with our team. You have been as well. We've 12 00:00:42.590 --> 00:00:45.930 been thinking about this idea where we've kind of been giving different 13 00:00:45.930 --> 00:00:51.000 advice or maybe sometimes even conflicting advice about your B two B 14 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:55.740 podcast strategy and that's because there are, we haven't up until now 15 00:00:55.740 --> 00:00:59.170 really defined. These are the different plays. These are the different 16 00:00:59.170 --> 00:01:04.860 strategies you can use. So what we want to outline today are the four primary B 17 00:01:04.860 --> 00:01:10.190 two B podcasting strategies. Number one is demand jin number two, we're calling 18 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:15.160 industry influence. Number three A B. M, which has a lot to do with content 19 00:01:15.160 --> 00:01:18.630 based networking is we've talked about a ton on the show and the number four 20 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:23.710 is a customer success strategy for your podcast. We're going to talk about why 21 00:01:23.710 --> 00:01:27.330 you would do each one of these where they overlap and where they don't and 22 00:01:27.330 --> 00:01:30.860 how they compare on some different things like what should be your primary 23 00:01:30.860 --> 00:01:34.820 goal, What's going to be the audience size, that sort of stuff? So any other 24 00:01:34.820 --> 00:01:40.230 thoughts in kind of how we came to this and why it's important to outline these 25 00:01:40.230 --> 00:01:43.350 four a little bit more distinctly before we get into the nitty gritty dan. 26 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:47.900 Yeah, I mean it kind of came as we kind of have like, we kind of knew about two. 27 00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:51.010 It's like, well you can emphasize audience growth or you can emphasize 28 00:01:51.010 --> 00:01:54.630 what we typically push customers towards his account based marketing. 29 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:59.610 But after doing strategy sessions with, I don't know, dozens of companies over 30 00:01:59.610 --> 00:02:02.960 the last year, I started to find that customers were like, well we're gonna 31 00:02:02.960 --> 00:02:06.180 do it this way. And I'm like, well if you're going to do it this way, then I 32 00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:09.229 guess you would do it like this and that makes a lot of sense because then 33 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:11.680 if you're working with customers can reduce turn, if you do it this way, you 34 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.640 can gain influence. And I found a couple other use cases where I'm like, 35 00:02:14.640 --> 00:02:18.020 actually there's, there's a good blunt here, there's a couple other, quite a 36 00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:22.090 few ways to use a podcast is very flexible, but when I narrowed them down 37 00:02:22.090 --> 00:02:26.640 and kind of group them together of like types, it really came down to four. So 38 00:02:26.640 --> 00:02:30.400 after we started with five at the beginning of this week posted in length 39 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:33.790 and got some conversations going, kind of debated it back and forth on a live 40 00:02:33.790 --> 00:02:38.760 chat and now we're here and I think we got it pretty well figure it out. So 41 00:02:38.760 --> 00:02:43.220 I'm excited to dive into the floor what they are, what they aren't and how, how 42 00:02:43.220 --> 00:02:47.690 they can work, some of them can work together. Yeah. And where they overlap, 43 00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:51.120 there are four main things we'll talk about similarities and differences 44 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:54.850 between each of them, but the four things we definitely will touch on in 45 00:02:54.860 --> 00:02:59.020 each of the four will be what's the primary goal of this podcast strategy? 46 00:02:59.030 --> 00:03:04.120 What's the main content type? What is the time to impact? And then what is 47 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:08.530 the expected audience size? Are you really aiming and measuring based on 48 00:03:08.530 --> 00:03:12.500 audience size even based on the strategy that you're going for? So 49 00:03:12.510 --> 00:03:17.390 let's kick it off. Number one is demand jin, where you're really prioritizing 50 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:22.250 audience growth. Right? Tell us a little bit about those four criteria, 51 00:03:22.250 --> 00:03:26.950 if you will then first and what this play really looks like. What is it 52 00:03:26.950 --> 00:03:32.660 prioritize them? We'll dig in, yep. So demand jin is probably what most people 53 00:03:32.660 --> 00:03:36.840 think of when they think of a podcast, but demanding is by far the most common 54 00:03:36.850 --> 00:03:41.490 business or B two B podcast, you'll see out there. It's you and your subject 55 00:03:41.490 --> 00:03:44.860 matter experts usually sitting in front of a microphone. Sometimes it's solo, 56 00:03:44.870 --> 00:03:49.370 sometimes it's co hosted, so there's two hosts, but generally they're both 57 00:03:49.370 --> 00:03:54.310 subject matter experts sharing their expertise on the show in order to kind 58 00:03:54.310 --> 00:03:57.850 of share what the content type is, is thought leadership really, it's a 59 00:03:57.850 --> 00:04:01.560 thought leadership play, but you're using thought leadership in order to 60 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.900 generate demand about what you bring to the table. So we don't use this one if 61 00:04:06.900 --> 00:04:10.990 we did this podcast will be called the BdB podcasting show and it's not, it is 62 00:04:10.990 --> 00:04:15.450 a BdB growth show. We'll talk more about how B two B growth fits into the 63 00:04:15.450 --> 00:04:19.149 A. B. M. Play. Um as I'm thinking about it, I'm trying to think of like some 64 00:04:19.149 --> 00:04:23.870 popular shows around this of course are the state of demand gen of course is a 65 00:04:23.870 --> 00:04:27.610 demand gen play with chris walker, giving out lots of thought leadership 66 00:04:27.610 --> 00:04:32.260 and he has multiple formats that he does, but it generally him talking 67 00:04:32.270 --> 00:04:36.720 right, it's generally christmas ideas or him reacting to some questions or 68 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:39.530 him consulting some customers, but everybody's listening to because they 69 00:04:39.530 --> 00:04:43.640 want to know what he's thinking about demanding and how he's applying it to 70 00:04:43.650 --> 00:04:48.690 different scenarios. The impact for this is long term. It does take a long 71 00:04:48.690 --> 00:04:52.270 time to build up an audience unless you have substantial audience somewhere 72 00:04:52.270 --> 00:04:55.230 else. Some other owned channel, like you have a large newsletter, then of 73 00:04:55.230 --> 00:04:58.890 course you're going to kick it off real fast. Have a friend. Um Austin Bell 74 00:04:58.890 --> 00:05:03.670 sack who had a huge lengthened following huge web traffic. So when he 75 00:05:03.670 --> 00:05:06.810 kicked off his podcast within like eight months he was getting 15 k 76 00:05:06.810 --> 00:05:10.710 downloads in an episode or whatever, but he had massive owned audience 77 00:05:10.710 --> 00:05:15.240 somewhere else. So naturally he could take that audience with him otherwise 78 00:05:15.250 --> 00:05:18.810 this is a long, long road you're gonna be doing to build an audience and have 79 00:05:18.810 --> 00:05:22.790 an impact here and then the expected size that you're shooting for is large. 80 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.630 The whole purpose of it is to grow a large audience. You're shooting for a 81 00:05:25.630 --> 00:05:30.210 large one unless you have some kind of like really niche knowledge that so 82 00:05:30.210 --> 00:05:34.140 niche that only like a few people in the world want to hear it, but they, 83 00:05:34.150 --> 00:05:36.650 those people really wanted, you know, I don't know, maybe more than a few 84 00:05:36.650 --> 00:05:40.450 people, but you get what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. And this is this is the 85 00:05:40.450 --> 00:05:43.750 type of B two B podcast strategy, I would say most of our potential 86 00:05:43.750 --> 00:05:47.920 customers come in asking us about unless they've really heard about 87 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.100 content based networking and they want to go with strategy number three, we're 88 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:56.110 going to talk about in a bit which is the primarily a B. M focused play. But 89 00:05:56.110 --> 00:06:00.530 this one is the goal is audience growth. The content type is thought leadership 90 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:04.690 good example with chris walker just because you're doing a demand jin 91 00:06:04.700 --> 00:06:08.650 strategy with your BdB podcast doesn't mean that thought leadership, content 92 00:06:08.650 --> 00:06:12.050 has to be just solo episodes. That might be a big part of it and likely it 93 00:06:12.050 --> 00:06:15.620 will be, but it could be this sort of episode, right, where you have two 94 00:06:15.620 --> 00:06:19.680 people from one company riffing on something within their realm of 95 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:24.210 expertise, you could interview some customers and prospects and industry 96 00:06:24.220 --> 00:06:29.330 thought leaders as well, but the primary focus is sharing the thought 97 00:06:29.330 --> 00:06:33.800 leadership from your team's perspective and just because you have internal 98 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:37.730 people talking doesn't mean it's going to be crappy, I mean that just depends 99 00:06:37.730 --> 00:06:41.230 on how actionable and how much thought leadership they actually have versus 100 00:06:41.340 --> 00:06:45.350 they're just plugging the product or the service or, or whatever before we 101 00:06:45.350 --> 00:06:50.660 go on to 23 and four dan. You know, we talk a lot about what should the 102 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:54.220 premise of your show be? What should the format, how should you name your 103 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:59.770 show, how close to your company or your product versus your Baier's expertise. 104 00:06:59.780 --> 00:07:03.420 What are some of those things that you think about if you're going with 105 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:07.620 podcast strategy number one, which is a demand in play, I haven't spent a lot 106 00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:10.640 of time thinking about like how premise complain to these though. I know 107 00:07:10.650 --> 00:07:14.090 premise could absolutely, once you lock down the strategy, it actually makes 108 00:07:14.090 --> 00:07:18.300 the premise development a lot easier. I do think if you're going to demand jin 109 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:23.700 side an audience growth premises probably most important in this 110 00:07:23.700 --> 00:07:29.020 category because your goal is audience growth and having a powerful premise, a 111 00:07:29.020 --> 00:07:34.010 reason that mixes it up and has a different angle on it, or a journey or 112 00:07:34.010 --> 00:07:38.220 some kind of mash up of a different content in order to keep it interesting 113 00:07:38.230 --> 00:07:42.250 is only going to matter the most on the demand gen side because premise 114 00:07:42.250 --> 00:07:46.460 development shines the most would to capturing people's attention and 115 00:07:46.460 --> 00:07:49.910 keeping their attention so they have a reason to show up to your podcast over 116 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:54.110 and over and over again. Even when competition becomes more fierce your 117 00:07:54.110 --> 00:07:57.930 premises, what's going to keep people engaged? That's really good advice. 118 00:07:57.940 --> 00:08:03.170 Okay, let's step to number two. This one was the hardest one for us to name. 119 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:07.990 Um we went through a few different ones and this might have been one where we 120 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.070 act number five and marched in, I can't remember, but right now anyway, we're 121 00:08:12.070 --> 00:08:17.180 calling it industry influence, what is this strategy before we get into the 122 00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:20.530 four criteria, if you will the breakdown. This is the one that 123 00:08:20.530 --> 00:08:23.720 actually kicked off the whole conversation because I had a customer 124 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:27.620 recently. First, they were kind of unhappy. I felt like they were unhappy 125 00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:30.700 with the podcast. They're like, well we haven't seen sales grow when I actually 126 00:08:30.700 --> 00:08:33.289 asked them like, oh, like what have you been doing with it? Who have you been 127 00:08:33.289 --> 00:08:38.110 interviewing? How has that been going? What the ceo started telling me, he's 128 00:08:38.110 --> 00:08:41.870 like, actually we've been using it to meet and greet lots of people in the 129 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:45.610 industry and break into the american market from the UK and now we're making 130 00:08:45.610 --> 00:08:48.310 traction because like all of a sudden we're able to kind of open the door for 131 00:08:48.310 --> 00:08:52.380 all the gatekeepers. We're actually meeting with thought leaders where I'm 132 00:08:52.380 --> 00:08:55.380 meeting with some customers, but I'm building relationships with them 133 00:08:55.380 --> 00:08:59.860 getting by in. Like all of a sudden I have a much stronger industry influence 134 00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:04.430 because I'm able to get time with the people who matter in the industry, the 135 00:09:04.430 --> 00:09:10.020 gatekeepers. And so that's a powerful play in and of itself without demand, 136 00:09:10.020 --> 00:09:14.360 gen without account based marketing. He's not meeting with ideal buyers at 137 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:19.440 all, but he is using it to break his company into a competitive market in a 138 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:24.310 place in the US where it's there, it's very competitive for security. And so 139 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:26.880 that's what kicked off the whole thing is, I'm like, wow, there's really a 140 00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:29.520 play here and it's not the first time I've heard about it, I've heard of 141 00:09:29.520 --> 00:09:33.200 other people using this play to quickly go from, nobody knows who they are, 142 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.330 they just entered and they know nothing about this industry to quickly lining 143 00:09:37.330 --> 00:09:41.530 up 30 40 people interviewing them all and quickly learning about the 144 00:09:41.530 --> 00:09:46.840 industry's he's talking to the top dogs and then everybody knows who he was. I 145 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:51.310 can't remember the exact industry and I won't say who it was, but like, it was 146 00:09:51.310 --> 00:09:54.920 a quick way to become known in the industry in a relatively short amount 147 00:09:54.920 --> 00:09:58.700 of time without having to like go to a conference and shake everybody's hands, 148 00:09:58.710 --> 00:10:01.090 which you're not gonna get an hour with all those people anyways, they're 149 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:03.850 usually speaking on stage and hard to get a hold of. But to get them on the 150 00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:09.660 podcast isn't that hard? So it goes well. Yeah, exactly. So I would say 151 00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:14.020 strategy is number two and three are really going to be about what people 152 00:10:14.020 --> 00:10:17.640 have heard us talk about the most content based networking right? Where 153 00:10:17.640 --> 00:10:22.180 you're creating content with the people you want to know and the people you 154 00:10:22.180 --> 00:10:26.610 want to know you as opposed to creating a podcast and hoping that they listen 155 00:10:26.610 --> 00:10:30.630 to it or trying to get it in front of them through typical digital marketing 156 00:10:30.640 --> 00:10:35.270 just going straight to them. So strategy number two is content based 157 00:10:35.270 --> 00:10:38.460 networking, even though you're not going directly to potential customers 158 00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:42.350 to have them on his guests, you're going to industry influencers, you're 159 00:10:42.350 --> 00:10:47.380 going to maybe potential resellers, potential partners, right. For us, we 160 00:10:47.380 --> 00:10:52.120 can do content based networking in this strategy of industry influence and 161 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:56.400 build relationships with chris walker at refined labs and matt Heinz Heinz 162 00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:59.470 marketing and other folks in the B two B marketing space. And we've had them 163 00:10:59.470 --> 00:11:04.510 on this podcast and we've partially executed uh this strategy because we're 164 00:11:04.510 --> 00:11:08.820 creating good content. And so what's interesting here is the first three 165 00:11:08.820 --> 00:11:13.390 strategies have some overlap. So you can see we're already talking about how 166 00:11:13.390 --> 00:11:16.610 this overlaps with the A. B. M. Play because it's about the relationships 167 00:11:16.610 --> 00:11:20.770 more than the first strategy. But if you're interviewing people that you 168 00:11:20.770 --> 00:11:23.450 want to get to know in the industry, they're probably going to have some 169 00:11:23.450 --> 00:11:27.180 thoughts that your potential customers want to hear as well. So it overlaps 170 00:11:27.180 --> 00:11:31.500 with number one as well because you may be able to build a good audience and 171 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:34.180 develop some thought leadership even though you don't have thought 172 00:11:34.180 --> 00:11:38.740 leadership to share yourself yet. Right? You did a great episode on like a 90 173 00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:41.900 day action plan to thought leadership. We should link to that in the show 174 00:11:41.900 --> 00:11:46.690 notes on on this one man. So the goal is really first and foremost, building 175 00:11:46.690 --> 00:11:52.040 relationships with industry influencers, partners, referral partners, folks like 176 00:11:52.040 --> 00:11:55.960 that. The content type is probably going to be more heavily focused on 177 00:11:55.970 --> 00:11:58.440 outside interviews because you're interviewing these people, you want to 178 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.560 build relationships with. The impact is more midterm. So maybe not as long as 179 00:12:03.560 --> 00:12:07.150 the demand gen play because the relationships can start to make things 180 00:12:07.150 --> 00:12:11.300 happen and then the audience sizes maybe medium, right? Because like we 181 00:12:11.300 --> 00:12:15.090 said, it overlaps with number one, but the audience size isn't really what 182 00:12:15.100 --> 00:12:19.600 you're optimizing for. It's not your primary goal. So you shouldn't expect 183 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:23.630 to go with strategy number two of industry influence and measure the 184 00:12:23.630 --> 00:12:28.630 success just based on downloads and streams. They miss anything there, 185 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:32.020 correct me if I'm wrong on any of that man, I just love how this one blends 186 00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:35.780 like this one is so common and you should be doing this to some degree 187 00:12:35.790 --> 00:12:39.910 whether you go to the demands inside or the A B. M side because it is a really 188 00:12:39.910 --> 00:12:44.400 great way to build influence. Like I was just talking to Logan like we're in 189 00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:48.220 podcast agency. So like he's already talking to some people at Descript 190 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:53.810 right? The podcast editing company or uh tech company. And I'm like, but if 191 00:12:53.810 --> 00:12:57.010 we didn't have relationships already, it wouldn't that be that hard to find 192 00:12:57.010 --> 00:12:59.660 them on linkedin and shoot the medium and be like, hey, come talk to us on 193 00:12:59.660 --> 00:13:02.890 our podcast, tell us about what you're thinking about podcasting. And I bet 194 00:13:02.890 --> 00:13:06.280 the content would actually be really, really good. Right? And we should 195 00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:09.780 probably have them on anyway just to build a relationship even more. Right? 196 00:13:09.790 --> 00:13:14.770 Yeah, well in case in point, if we were going really with strategy number one, 197 00:13:14.770 --> 00:13:18.650 which has never been our primary goal with with GDP growth, stay tuned for 198 00:13:18.650 --> 00:13:23.890 more on that. We could still have them on this show because podcasting is part 199 00:13:23.890 --> 00:13:27.840 of GDP growth. But then if we also had a show that went with strategy number 200 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:33.330 one and this was the BdB podcasting show or meta the podcast about BTB 201 00:13:33.330 --> 00:13:38.070 podcasting, we could also have Descript on. Right? And so again, strategy 202 00:13:38.070 --> 00:13:42.800 number two overlaps really nicely with one and three in a couple of, of 203 00:13:42.800 --> 00:13:43.610 different ways. 204 00:13:44.640 --> 00:13:49.040 We've already kind of given a taste of what number three is going to be, the 205 00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:53.450 third one is a B. M. Or account based marketing, Pure content based 206 00:13:53.450 --> 00:13:57.910 networking with potential buyers. I mean we've explained this a ton, but 207 00:13:57.910 --> 00:14:01.960 for folks that are new and for consistency here, let's outline what's 208 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.910 important here. What's the goal? What are you doing if you're going with 209 00:14:04.910 --> 00:14:08.290 strategy number three dan? Yeah, for this one, the goal is to build 210 00:14:08.290 --> 00:14:13.040 relationships specifically with buyers or potential buyers. The main content 211 00:14:13.040 --> 00:14:18.140 type is interviews. The impact is about short to midterm as far as when it's 212 00:14:18.140 --> 00:14:21.790 going to impact your revenue and expected audience size is going to be 213 00:14:21.790 --> 00:14:26.740 small to medium sized. This will never be probably have the same potentials. 214 00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:29.450 Audience sizes demand gen because you're optimizing for audience growth 215 00:14:29.450 --> 00:14:33.620 there, but it does have the potential to be fairly large. I mean this shows 216 00:14:33.630 --> 00:14:38.230 fairly large and it's an A B. M. Based show within that though, I wanted to 217 00:14:38.230 --> 00:14:40.920 outline like there's really three different approaches you can even take 218 00:14:40.920 --> 00:14:47.150 within this one, Double um 1 1 cir here is that you, there's three different 219 00:14:47.150 --> 00:14:52.450 types of ideal buyers that you can use the show to reach. one is reaching just 220 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:55.730 prospects who don't, who don't even know who you are, you reach out to them 221 00:14:55.730 --> 00:14:58.420 cold and be like, hey, so you're doing great things. Your company would love 222 00:14:58.420 --> 00:15:02.230 to have you on our show to talk about it right? And you walk through pre 223 00:15:02.230 --> 00:15:05.220 interview to a P. O. V. Discovery, you unlock some great nuggets that they 224 00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:08.750 have to share, You share it on the show. You build a relationship, you do not 225 00:15:08.750 --> 00:15:13.370 pitch them ever, but trust me relationship, people are smart, they'll 226 00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:15.650 check you out, right? So that's one play and that's probably the most 227 00:15:15.650 --> 00:15:19.100 common place what we're doing. Oftentimes with this show, not always, 228 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:23.830 but often um the second one is bringing someone onto the show who's already in 229 00:15:23.830 --> 00:15:27.490 your pipeline, some a lot for a lot of B to B companies, people in their 230 00:15:27.490 --> 00:15:30.680 pipeline can be in there for like months to year sometimes, like it's a 231 00:15:30.680 --> 00:15:34.470 long pipeline, sweeten the deal, like bring them onto the show, building a 232 00:15:34.470 --> 00:15:38.070 relationship that way. Not only do you build a relationship with the key 233 00:15:38.070 --> 00:15:41.420 stakeholder, but they're probably excited to be on the show. They share 234 00:15:41.420 --> 00:15:45.230 it out to their social media, multiple people within their account are seeing 235 00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:48.740 it and also becoming more familiar with who you are and what you do with your 236 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:53.710 show. So it's a great way to kind of like accelerate the deal. Again, it's 237 00:15:53.710 --> 00:15:58.940 not through pitching them or strong arming them or uh like bait switching 238 00:15:58.940 --> 00:16:03.590 that switch, but it's about building genuine relationships because we tend 239 00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:07.880 to do more business with the people we trust and more time spent talking and 240 00:16:07.880 --> 00:16:11.910 making adding value to them by giving them audience is great. Now the third 241 00:16:11.910 --> 00:16:16.750 one is fun and that is finding current customers of larger accounts that might 242 00:16:16.750 --> 00:16:20.010 have different divisions that you want to get to know right if you're working 243 00:16:20.010 --> 00:16:23.700 with one division, you know, you'd be just as equally effective at producing 244 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:26.710 some good results for the second division, a great way to get an 245 00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:29.230 introduction is to ask them for an introduction and say like, hey, I'd 246 00:16:29.230 --> 00:16:32.390 love to have so and so on the podcast, could you warm introduction me to the 247 00:16:32.390 --> 00:16:35.830 person to the customer you're already working with. If you're doing a great 248 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:39.200 job in providing value for them, that's an easy introduction for them to make 249 00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:43.450 because now they get to extend the value themselves and you get to build a 250 00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:46.370 relationship with that other division and do what we've already been doing 251 00:16:46.370 --> 00:16:49.990 with ideal fires, who don't know us. So those are kind of like the three 252 00:16:49.990 --> 00:16:55.460 different avenues that we've seen. A B M can work at building revenue for BTB 253 00:16:55.460 --> 00:17:01.060 company Strategy. No three, the goal is all about building relationships. The, 254 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:04.359 the content type obviously is interviews because of its relationships. 255 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.950 You need someone to interview to build the relationship with. The impact can 256 00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:12.920 be short because those can map really quickly. And I love that. # three has 257 00:17:12.930 --> 00:17:16.000 three kind of subsets and that's the way I've always explained it to our 258 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.660 potential customers that want to use this strategy is you can use it to 259 00:17:20.670 --> 00:17:24.890 engage and get to know people who don't know, you. people who already know you. 260 00:17:24.890 --> 00:17:28.210 So like you said, number two people who are in your sales pipeline and you 261 00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:33.530 could say, hey, could we have your boss on the podcast to have them speak to 262 00:17:33.540 --> 00:17:37.800 this industry trend or something like that. So it could be even within type 263 00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:41.770 number two, within strategy, number three, there could be multiple people, 264 00:17:41.770 --> 00:17:45.360 you could engage the person you're talking to their boss, someone else. 265 00:17:45.370 --> 00:17:49.690 And then number three, um we have some customers that are using this strategy 266 00:17:49.700 --> 00:17:54.330 and it is strategy number three A. B. M. But they're not interviewing any 267 00:17:54.340 --> 00:17:57.230 prospect accounts from their target account list. They're interviewing 268 00:17:57.230 --> 00:18:01.450 current customers where they have expansion Upsell and cross sell 269 00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:04.590 opportunities. So the focus is still on relationships, but there are three 270 00:18:04.590 --> 00:18:08.200 types of people you might want to build relationships with within this strategy. 271 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.520 People who don't know you, people who already know you and people who are 272 00:18:11.530 --> 00:18:16.380 already buying from you. So I think there's also some overlap as we, you 273 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:19.190 know, talked about in industry influencers and folks that you might 274 00:18:19.190 --> 00:18:23.170 want to build relationships because of the how you name the show and how you 275 00:18:23.170 --> 00:18:27.510 set up the premise that will allow you to go there too. Anything else there, 276 00:18:27.510 --> 00:18:30.610 man, before we go to number four, I think before we go to number four, it's 277 00:18:30.610 --> 00:18:35.690 important to specify that just because we're saying the goal of industry 278 00:18:35.690 --> 00:18:39.120 influence and a B. M is building relationships. It's not like we're not 279 00:18:39.130 --> 00:18:42.760 developing audience for them and it's not like they're not developing 280 00:18:42.760 --> 00:18:46.350 relationships with the demand inside their developing relationships there 281 00:18:46.350 --> 00:18:50.610 too. You're doing all these things. It's just like what some are optimize 282 00:18:50.610 --> 00:18:54.820 more for one thing versus the other. And if you try to really go at both, 283 00:18:54.830 --> 00:18:59.000 they kind of get in the way, it just becomes a problem. So you really have 284 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.220 to optimize for one and no, you're still building audience in A B. M. 285 00:19:02.230 --> 00:19:05.970 You're not like have an audience of your just your mom and you're inviting 286 00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:08.870 them on being like, yeah, we're gonna make you look really good. And then you 287 00:19:08.870 --> 00:19:11.740 have an audience of like two and then you don't even release the episode. 288 00:19:11.740 --> 00:19:15.400 It's not on Apple, it's not on Spotify. And you're like, I gotta, that's not 289 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:19.650 what we're saying here, right? We're saying what is the top priority because 290 00:19:19.650 --> 00:19:23.290 what we found is that if you're not tracking the right things like your 291 00:19:23.290 --> 00:19:27.010 conversation with our customer based in the UK, you may think that you're 292 00:19:27.010 --> 00:19:32.200 failing when you're actually not or if you try to prioritize all of them, you 293 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.570 may hit a ceiling and you might get frustrated. Which candidly we've been 294 00:19:35.570 --> 00:19:39.710 talking about internally, we've tried to do all four of these with me to be 295 00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:44.110 growth and it's put us at a point where we're like, we got to optimize for one, 296 00:19:44.110 --> 00:19:47.100 right? And then you can have a secondary. And you can maybe get a 297 00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:51.410 little bit from one of the others as a third piece, but you really got to 298 00:19:51.410 --> 00:19:55.110 choose what's your top priority out of these four, which one does it most 299 00:19:55.110 --> 00:19:59.920 naturally overlap and then optimize for those and I love what you said. They're 300 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.420 like, don't just make the content crappy, don't just phone it in like 301 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:07.740 content based networking, they're still content as part of it. And so you still 302 00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:10.930 need to make your guest look good. You should be trying to grow the audience 303 00:20:10.930 --> 00:20:14.420 so that you can legitimately say, hey, I'm going to share this with our 304 00:20:14.420 --> 00:20:18.080 listeners and your listeners shouldn't just be your mom. Although if you get a 305 00:20:18.080 --> 00:20:21.480 customer and the only listener is your mom, you should send her a thank you 306 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.540 ambassador. Something nice. All right, we're going to talk about number four. 307 00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:29.370 This one was interesting. So I was talking to Olivia Hurley, who's another 308 00:20:29.370 --> 00:20:34.300 host of this show podcast strategist on our sales team and she said, hey, this 309 00:20:34.300 --> 00:20:38.760 company came to me and said they only want to interview current customers and 310 00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:42.650 this is part of what led me to come to you and you are already kind of 311 00:20:42.650 --> 00:20:47.080 thinking about how Logan, we need to outline these four specific strategies, 312 00:20:47.090 --> 00:20:50.970 five slash for it's for now it's for and I kind of walk them through. Well 313 00:20:50.970 --> 00:20:54.900 if you're only interviewing existing customers, you need to realize some 314 00:20:54.900 --> 00:21:00.080 things that what your podcast is going to be and what it isn't, this one kinda 315 00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:04.070 sits over on its own. So if you're viewing all four of these as like 316 00:21:04.080 --> 00:21:07.780 circles side by side with the first three overlapping is like a Venn 317 00:21:07.780 --> 00:21:12.370 diagram. The fourth is kind of over by itself and we'll talk about some of the 318 00:21:12.370 --> 00:21:16.020 things that you could pull from the other ones. But it's a it's a different 319 00:21:16.020 --> 00:21:19.220 strategy and I like the way you summed it up the other day dance. I'll let you 320 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:23.390 kind of laid forth strategy out customer success strategy with your 321 00:21:23.390 --> 00:21:28.900 podcast. So the goal of the customer success strategy is really to reduce 322 00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:32.720 churn. It's not for audience growth, it's not to necessarily build 323 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.510 relationships. So you will build those, it's really to reduce churn and just 324 00:21:37.510 --> 00:21:40.940 help your customers become more successful that way. The main content 325 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:47.090 type is interviews, impact is going to be medium. I don't know like it 326 00:21:47.090 --> 00:21:49.830 couldn't depending on how much you reduce your and it could be a really 327 00:21:49.830 --> 00:21:53.270 big deal. If it's one of the best ways to deliver good stuff to your customers, 328 00:21:53.270 --> 00:21:56.570 it could have a big but I'm going to say medium and you're expected audience 329 00:21:56.570 --> 00:22:01.580 size is going to be small. It can only be as big as your customer. Your 330 00:22:01.580 --> 00:22:05.560 customer base. If you only have 30,000 customers Then don't expect to have 331 00:22:05.560 --> 00:22:09.720 40,000 listeners. All right, Having even 10,000 listeners would be really, 332 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.900 really good if you have 30,000 customers. Right, it's probably less 333 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:16.180 than that most of the time. But my favorite thing about it and I've, I've 334 00:22:16.180 --> 00:22:19.740 been on some been a customer of quite a few tools where I was so hungry, I 335 00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:24.170 wanted more. And I'm like, my favorite thing to see from, especially from some 336 00:22:24.170 --> 00:22:29.020 sass providers was seeing customer case studies, like who else was using this 337 00:22:29.020 --> 00:22:33.780 tool in creative ways to unlock success and what were they doing differently 338 00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:37.350 than how I was using it? Right. I would have loved. That would have killed for 339 00:22:37.350 --> 00:22:39.980 some more stories. Only stories I ever got to see was like, maybe a 340 00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:42.990 competition between some customers at their annual event. That was hardly 341 00:22:42.990 --> 00:22:46.950 enough. I wanted to see more who was doing the best with this and that's 342 00:22:46.950 --> 00:22:51.590 what this could become, is use cases interviewing your best customers in 343 00:22:51.590 --> 00:22:56.580 trying to tease out the tips, the tricks, the rhythms they've gotten into 344 00:22:56.580 --> 00:23:00.920 using your service or your tool so that other customers can become more like 345 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.920 your best customers. This will probably only ever be a weekly show, right? 346 00:23:04.930 --> 00:23:09.270 Because you can't do that many episodes about it, but people want to consume 347 00:23:09.280 --> 00:23:12.800 audio content. It's easy to consume that can consume it passively. And 348 00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:15.360 while you probably already have blog posts like that, you maybe you should 349 00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:18.960 turn some of them into podcast episodes and have it stripped comes straight 350 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.040 through the customer's mouth. Not only that, but you get to reward your best 351 00:23:22.040 --> 00:23:24.830 customers by getting them in front of all the other customers and make them 352 00:23:24.830 --> 00:23:29.340 look like like a rock star for being for being one of your best customers, 353 00:23:29.350 --> 00:23:34.310 reward them. And like you said, there's relational benefits here because having 354 00:23:34.310 --> 00:23:37.670 those customers on your investing in that relationship, there's some equity 355 00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:41.490 gain there, there's some brand affinity, but that's not necessarily the goal. So 356 00:23:41.490 --> 00:23:44.820 what we're talking about in this fourth strategy is interview your best 357 00:23:44.820 --> 00:23:48.610 customers about what they're doing, how they're using your product or service. 358 00:23:48.620 --> 00:23:52.140 Again, we tried to do this a little bit within B two B growth. At times we've 359 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:56.410 had to separate series that we've called, why podcasts work and how to 360 00:23:56.410 --> 00:24:01.340 podcast, right? And at times there we've interviewed customers to say, 361 00:24:01.340 --> 00:24:05.590 let's talk about guest booking, let's talk about um interviewing and hosting 362 00:24:05.590 --> 00:24:10.020 skills. Let's talk about podcast promotion strategies. Now, that doesn't 363 00:24:10.020 --> 00:24:15.120 mix real well when you're trying to do some of the other types, the first 364 00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:18.720 three strategies, because it's so narrowly focused. So I would say here, 365 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.330 if you've heard us say like don't name the show after your expertise or don't 366 00:24:22.330 --> 00:24:26.190 have it tied too closely to your company. That kind of goes out the 367 00:24:26.190 --> 00:24:29.910 window here because if it is aimed at people that already know like and trust 368 00:24:29.910 --> 00:24:34.720 you, you can name the show after your company, you can name it after a better 369 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.440 way. Might be if you have a nickname for your customer base, you know, kind 370 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:43.160 of like Taylor Swift has Swifty's right. Name it after them still. So actually 371 00:24:43.170 --> 00:24:46.460 still kind of falls in line with our general thinking about naming right? 372 00:24:46.470 --> 00:24:51.560 But the goal is not a huge audience size. It's, you might measure success, 373 00:24:51.570 --> 00:24:56.660 not based on a number of streams per episode, but hey, we have 500 customers 374 00:24:56.670 --> 00:25:00.630 and we've got 300 people listening to the show. How do we get that to 400 375 00:25:01.090 --> 00:25:05.180 maybe that's really the ceiling. Right And how is that impacting turn? There's 376 00:25:05.180 --> 00:25:08.290 some other useful things that you could do with this type where you're 377 00:25:08.300 --> 00:25:12.580 interviewing customers, you're doing sort of audio case studies as well as 378 00:25:12.590 --> 00:25:16.780 tips and tricks for other customers that could be used by your customer 379 00:25:16.780 --> 00:25:22.120 success team as added content. You could also provide this to your sales 380 00:25:22.120 --> 00:25:25.900 team. You probably not going to give this to your marketing team to go do 381 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:29.280 brand awareness with this sort of content. But when you have people at 382 00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:33.510 decision stage with your sales team, they could absolutely use this as sales 383 00:25:33.510 --> 00:25:37.790 enablement content. Like we've got someone we're talking to and they're 384 00:25:37.790 --> 00:25:41.760 concerned about guest booking for their podcast. If we have an episode with 385 00:25:41.760 --> 00:25:44.810 this sort of strategy where we've interviewed customers, we could give 386 00:25:44.810 --> 00:25:47.980 that to our sales team and they can share it at that point in the sales 387 00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:51.750 process. So it's still going to have an impact on sales, but it's more sales 388 00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:56.210 and customer success More so than broader marketing with strategy number 389 00:25:56.210 --> 00:26:01.610 four with a customer success focus on your podcast, man, I just feel like we 390 00:26:01.610 --> 00:26:05.600 unpacked one of the best pieces of the year. I'm like, what else should we 391 00:26:05.610 --> 00:26:08.860 should we talk about here? I mean that's so we've got the four types. 392 00:26:08.870 --> 00:26:15.540 Okay, let's sum it up. We've got demand jin we've got industry influence A. B. 393 00:26:15.540 --> 00:26:19.840 M. And then customer success. So if you're thinking about a podcast, think 394 00:26:19.840 --> 00:26:24.130 about these what you're really trying to optimize for because we've talked 395 00:26:24.130 --> 00:26:29.370 about the goal, the main content type the time to impact and then the target 396 00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:33.930 audience size, small, medium or large, based on which way you're going to go 397 00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:37.770 demand jin and industry influence overlap pretty nicely. Industry 398 00:26:37.770 --> 00:26:42.010 influence overlaps with A B. M. As well as, you know, back to number one and 399 00:26:42.010 --> 00:26:46.580 then number four kind of stands on its own but still has some impact on on 400 00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:50.080 sales. And it's not just something that your customer success team would have 401 00:26:50.080 --> 00:26:52.860 to do, you know, by themselves. It might be something that marketing and 402 00:26:52.860 --> 00:26:56.970 customer success do together and then it impacts sales and CS and marketing 403 00:26:56.970 --> 00:27:01.860 gets a little bit of something out of it, man, I I just think we have so much 404 00:27:01.860 --> 00:27:06.870 clarity here so that if you have a show and you're kind of hitting a ceiling or 405 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.530 you're not sure if it's working, you might be measuring the wrong things or 406 00:27:10.530 --> 00:27:14.800 you might be trying to do too many things with one show because we've 407 00:27:14.800 --> 00:27:18.300 talked before about like don't have multiple shows because it's hard enough 408 00:27:18.300 --> 00:27:22.040 to grow an audience for multiple shows, you know, push it into one. But I think 409 00:27:22.050 --> 00:27:25.950 candidly that's where you know, we have run into some issues trying to shove 410 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:31.270 all four of these plays into one show. So more coming on that soon from, from 411 00:27:31.270 --> 00:27:34.630 dan and I for sure. But if you're thinking about a podcast, hopefully 412 00:27:34.630 --> 00:27:39.840 this was helpful for you connect with dan and I on linkedin. You can search 413 00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:43.770 dance hashtag. I don't have a hashtag yet. His is cooler than mine. Uh dan 414 00:27:43.770 --> 00:27:49.420 Chaz D A N C H E Z. Or you can just find us dan Sanchez Logan Lyles. Pretty 415 00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:53.060 easy to find on linkedin as always. Thank you so much for listening, dan. 416 00:27:53.070 --> 00:27:55.450 This was good. We got to do it again soon. Mhm 417 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.600 At sweet fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the 418 00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:07.140 internet for every job function and industry on the planet for the B two B 419 00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:11.150 marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that mission. If you 420 00:28:11.150 --> 00:28:14.590 know a marketing leader that would be an awesome guest for this podcast, 421 00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:18.120 shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, 422 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:24.560 but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8, just shoot me their name may be a link 423 00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:28.470 to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get 424 00:28:28.470 --> 00:28:35.160 them on the show. Thanks a lot. Okay. Mm hmm. Yeah.