Strong Brand Drives Demand with Lori Cohen

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.239 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and 3 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:25.000 today we are joined by Lori Cohen. She is a fractional CMO with chief 4 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.519 outsiders. Lori, were so glad to have you here with us today. 5 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.559 Thanks so much, Benje. Glad to be here. Let's do this. 6 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:36.719 Lorie, just give us a quick snapshot of what Your Work Life looks like 7 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:44.399 these days. That that's a little crazy. So you'd basically, I am 8 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:51.200 a fractional CMO and so I'm basically consulting and currently I'm working with two very 9 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:57.799 different organizations. One of them is a be tob company that's very well established, 10 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:00.920 sort of. It's been around for about fifteen years and it's INTECH, 11 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.680 the technology space, and I was brought in to help with the go to 12 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:11.280 marketing strategy for a new product that's actually called big animal and it's basically a 13 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:19.000 SASS product that brings a fully managed postgress to the cloud, like Amazon and 14 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:23.959 Azure, etceter so. Think of it as a startup within an established company, 15 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:26.480 right. So I'm doing that, YEP, and trying to help them 16 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:34.000 actually find that lane to to really grow the business. And then I'm working 17 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:40.159 with another company that's actually more of a services organization that this one is called 18 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:47.480 the alternative board and they're like personal peer advisory groups that help business owners to 19 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.920 really become better business owners, to manage their businesses, their personal life the 20 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:57.640 community. So completely different and very, very different challenges with both of them. 21 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.760 So I'm just a little schizophrenic. How's that? You like? Keeping 22 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:07.080 it interesting might be a nicer way of saying it, but I'd totally I 23 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:12.280 love that and I'm glad we get to tap into your wisdom on today's episode, 24 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.599 having the view that you've had into a number of companies. We want 25 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.879 to talk about this issue that you've seen kind of over and over again, 26 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.759 that brands will prioritize the mansion and then eventually, basically, they hit a 27 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:30.080 wall, they plateau, and so I wonder when did you first start noticing 28 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:34.759 this and seeing that as a trend? HMM, you know, to be 29 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.080 honest, I don't I don't know if I could say. Oh, that 30 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:43.800 what my big Aha moment was, to be honest. Yeah, my career 31 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:50.599 for the most part has been around building brands and building differentiation and I know 32 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.759 that in the companies that I've worked with, whether it was a startup or 33 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:59.400 a company that really needed to read position and grow, we saw once we 34 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.360 did that at work and really got it right, that it would that it 35 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.960 became the engine to growth. So I always believed in that. I always 36 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:13.319 believed in differentiation. I always believed in the fact that even in be to 37 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:17.719 be you had to be really creative, right, and there was you needed 38 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:22.439 to take what you learned and be to c marketing and apply it to be 39 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:25.639 to be. So I did. I've been doing that really my you know 40 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:31.120 say, for twenty two years. I've always believed that brand is the essence 41 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:36.000 of what separates the good from the great companies and the ones that are going 42 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.800 to continue to grow and the ones that are eventually going to, you know, 43 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:44.199 kind of stall out or just get too expensive to grow, you know, 44 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.560 because it's just, you know, for every new customer it's going to 45 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:54.280 take so much more money to cull through a thousand white paper downloads and find 46 00:03:54.319 --> 00:04:01.280 maybe one potentially. Yeah. So, okay. So you talking about repositioning 47 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:05.599 there and it's more than just a different sales or marketing approach. You really 48 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:09.879 do believe it goes back to brand. I feel like I found myself in 49 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:14.439 several conversations recently where we're talking about why is brand sort of this word we 50 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:17.720 don't bring up, and especially be to B board rooms? But explain a 51 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.439 little bit more of a why you feel like brand is the thing. Why 52 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.680 is it branding that you care so much about her? You feel like this 53 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:29.519 comes back to yeah, so I guess I would say think of it, 54 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.639 think of yourself. Right, forget be to be, be Toc we're just 55 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:40.000 people, right, get up in the morning, whether we're a CTEO at 56 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:46.079 a company or a journalist or a developer. Right, we put our pants 57 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.000 on or our sweat pants on, you know, one way at a time. 58 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:54.199 We're just a person, right. But for some reason, be to 59 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:58.720 be companies have got it in their head that as soon as you become the 60 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:02.399 CTO from nine hundred and twenty five, you seem to want to communicate and 61 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:06.639 get information in a really different way than when you're in front of the TV 62 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.319 or you're reading a newspaper, or you're playing a video game or you're playing 63 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:15.000 with your kids. Right, and searching for the things that you want. 64 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:20.040 And so my fundamental belief is that we're just people. Nothing changes when we 65 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:25.000 become during the work day, that nine hundred and twenty five or whatever that 66 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:30.199 is. So communicate with us. Communicate with us in the ways that we're 67 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.839 going to respond. And we know from B Toc companies and from marketing overall 68 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:42.639 we respond emotionally to brandams. We do. So why, when you're thinking 69 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.519 about a bet to be company, do you take that emotional way and talk 70 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.639 about bits and bites and features? Right, why don't you tap into this? 71 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.920 is going to make your life better, your work like better, it's 72 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.800 going to help you get a promotion, you're not going to get fired. 73 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.720 I mean, think about it, like IBM knew it way back when, 74 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.759 when they really came up with the concept, is nobody gets fired when they 75 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:12.040 buy IBM. Like they understood the fact that it's me, me, the 76 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:15.959 person that are that's making those decisions, that are taking those risks. Appeal 77 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.240 to me. Don't talk to me about the bits and bites. You know, 78 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:25.079 we have our rational brain and we have our emotional brain and most of 79 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:30.000 the time, in complex buying decisions, we totally use both, and I 80 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.959 need to be typically we go for that rational just we lock it on the 81 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.519 rational and we forget about the emotional, and that's what I think kind of, 82 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.839 you know, ends up, you know, kind of falling flat. 83 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:45.560 Okay, so let's go down this road for a second with be to be 84 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.240 brands that kind of do fall flat a bit. And what, when you 85 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:55.800 think of in your mind, are the symptoms of a poor brand? So 86 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.439 I think if you're really looking at that kind of revenue mix, and at 87 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:04.079 the end of the day, we really do want marketing to drive pipeline right, 88 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:11.000 and we wanted to drive closed in one business, I think the symptoms 89 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:16.920 are you're using those same channels here. You're just blasting and through money on 90 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:21.360 Google ad words right, you're probably doing a lot of linked in stuff and 91 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:28.000 basically the leads if you get them, if you get somebody to fill out 92 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.319 a form chances or where you're doing content syndication, because that can bring in 93 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:36.160 a lot of leads really quickly. What happens is if you actually follow the 94 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:42.079 funnel and think about like what converts, how often, what's the payback, 95 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:46.199 you're going to find that those type of leads probably convert at a point one 96 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.920 percent after a year. So that one in a thousand is probably about what 97 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:55.000 it is. And that's what's going to happen. You know, you're not 98 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:58.000 going to fill a pipeline. You're going to feel good, you're going to 99 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.920 create all these quote MQL's right if you're measuring that, but they're not going 100 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.879 to convert into sales opportunities and they're not going to work their way down the 101 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.759 pipeline, right, because you're not differentiated. You know, you're kind of 102 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:16.800 like spraying and praying with a message that's not resonating. Only when you and 103 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.439 so you see it. You know you might not see in q one, 104 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.279 but you're going to. You're going to eventually see that your pipeline is going 105 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.240 to a road. There's no juice behind it to get it going again. 106 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:31.920 So if you step back and you you know you don't play in the sales 107 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.279 team because they're not following up on your leads, and the sales team doesn't 108 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.519 Brill in the marketing team because they're, can I, creating junky leads right, 109 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.360 and you just sort of step back and say, let's just sort of 110 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.639 analyze, let's just really analyze. Where are the leads coming from? What 111 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:54.559 do we think is qualified? What isn't qualified right and do that analysis, 112 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:56.759 you're probably going to see that you're not bring yeah, at the end of 113 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.600 the day, you're not bringing fires in in the right time in the buying 114 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.039 cycle. So I'm not I'm not going to say your lead suck, I'm 115 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:11.440 going to say they're probably not at the right time in the buying cycle right. 116 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.480 So you got to fix that. And it's not just magic. Oh 117 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:18.399 I'm going to fix the brand, like the brand is just one piece of 118 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:22.960 it. Then you have to layer on kind of the right kind of programs 119 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.559 to reach the buyer that you want at the right time, when they're in 120 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:33.399 the right time in the buying cycle. But if you just simply focus on 121 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:39.120 Google, add words, bits and bites and don't try to create some sort 122 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.440 of emotional connection, it's going to be much harder, much harder to find 123 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:48.000 those buyers when they're ready to buy. And I'm not saying it's easy. 124 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.879 I mean I struggle with it every day. We're trying to come up with 125 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:54.519 some campaigns for, you know, big animal. It's not. I'm not 126 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.240 saying it's easy, it's not. You know, it's really hard. And 127 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:03.200 the way you get those insights is not by sitting in the room, but 128 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:07.360 it's by talking to potential customers. They're the ones that will provide you with 129 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:13.080 the insight that you need. But often times you don't. You don't do 130 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:18.799 it, so you don't get that that raw kind of input. You need 131 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:26.240 to create that connection and then figure it out in the right kind of visual 132 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.279 you know, kind of message to the audience. You know there's short running 133 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.440 we we all do it. We think we know, so we put something 134 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:39.200 out there, etc. So I would say you know what the symptoms are 135 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.039 because you know it's hit in the bottom line, it's harder to fix it 136 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.360 right because you got to be committed to fixing it and fixing it is not 137 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.039 something that you do overnight. There is an amount of work that goes in 138 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:58.879 to really trying to understand that customer, understand their pain points and then convert 139 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.279 that in the kind of messaging that's going to resonate with them. Hey, 140 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.120 everyone, if you've been listening to be to be growth for a while, 141 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:13.039 you know that we are big proponents of putting out original organic content on Linkedin. 142 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.639 But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is 143 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:20.840 easily tracking the reach of that linkedin content. That's why we're really excited about 144 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.519 shield analytics. Since our team started using shield, we've been able to easily 145 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:31.159 track the reach and performance of our linkedin content without having to manually log it 146 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:37.480 ourselves. It automatically creates reports and it generates dashboards that are incredibly useful to 147 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.679 determining things like what content has been performing the best, what days of the 148 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:46.679 week are we getting the most engagement and our average views her post. Shield 149 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:52.159 has been a game changer for our entire team's productivity and performance on Linkedin. 150 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:58.600 I highly suggest checking out this tool if you're publishing content on Linkedin for yourselves 151 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.559 or for your company. You can get a ten day free trial at shield 152 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:07.120 APP NOT AI, or you can get a twenty five percent discount with our 153 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:13.240 Promo Code, be to be growth. Again, that's shield APP DOT AI 154 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:18.360 and the Promo Code is be the number two be growth. All One word 155 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.200 for a twenty five percent discount. All right, let's get back into the 156 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.519 show. There is an amount of work that goes in to really trying to 157 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:31.960 understand that customer, understand their pain points and then convert that in the kind 158 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:37.080 of messaging that's going to resonate with them. Yeah, understanding before repositioning, 159 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.799 because that's one thing is we can see a gap and we can go, 160 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:41.919 Oh man, we got to fix it. So we got to do something 161 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.879 quick, and then you realize it's actually going to get there's an understanding you 162 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:48.840 need to have of your customer before you would ever actually be able to steer 163 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.879 the ship in the proper reposition. So you mentioned brand and programs. I 164 00:12:54.879 --> 00:13:01.279 want to stick to the brand side here. Maybe define for us what sits 165 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:03.600 in that bucket to you, because I think some, because we don't use 166 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.679 that word as much in be to be, we all might be like, 167 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.080 well, is it kind of everything we do a little bit about, a 168 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.519 little bit of brand. But what to you, Lari is, is brand? 169 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:20.320 Like what's it's in that bucket that makes it so important? It's it's 170 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:26.120 what the customer thinks about you, period, plane and simple. It's how 171 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:33.320 they relate to you. So brand involved of everything from the experience right going 172 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:39.600 through your website, finding what they want, ordering something, not finding what 173 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.480 they want. So it's sort of like I think brand is every touch point 174 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:50.799 that someone has with you all together. It creates this kind of feeling and 175 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:56.879 the their thoughts in their mind becomes the reality and the relationship that they have 176 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:03.679 with your brand. So branding, branding is a logo, branding is a 177 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:09.480 name, branding is a color Palette, right. That's branding. Brand is 178 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:16.159 all those other insights and experiences that someone has when they think about your brand. 179 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.799 It's what they're going to say about you when you're not in the room 180 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.720 that you know. There's one good question. If you want to know if 181 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:28.559 you have a good brand and people care about you, ask your customers how 182 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:33.080 they would feel if your brand was gone tomorrow. I mean, would they 183 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.720 care? Would they go, Oh, okay, I'm just going to go 184 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.759 to x, Y and Z, or will they be like wow, I'm 185 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:46.519 so bummed out that you're not going to be making x y Z. that's 186 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.480 that connection, right. So you can ask that very simple question, how 187 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:56.000 would you feel if our brand was gone, and you'll get a real sense 188 00:14:56.039 --> 00:15:01.519 of is there an emotional connection to with that bran and do people care? 189 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.200 Do People Care? So for those that might find themselves in a season of 190 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.600 Plateau right, which is what we were talking about at the beginning, I 191 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.720 guess maybe I shouldn't speak directly to those people. But I would say, 192 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:20.720 is there something that we can do to avoid that plateau if possible, or 193 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:22.279 do you feel like it's a natural part of the cycle that you realize, 194 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.679 okay, we're plateauing and now it's time to change it up, to reposition, 195 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:28.000 and that's worth it? You know, I think it all depends, 196 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:33.679 right, it all depends on so many factors. So I won't do all 197 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.320 companies hit the wall. Will probably not right. But you know, I 198 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:45.919 think that if you do find that your pipeline is going in the wrong direction, 199 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:50.440 it's not going up into the right your hit. You're missing your numbers 200 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:56.120 at every quarter. Again, step back, don't point fingers, because it's 201 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.080 not going to don't fire the head of sales, the head of marketing, 202 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.679 you know what I mean, and bring in you know, rearrange the jet 203 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:04.720 deck chairs. Yeah, we becomes sports teams, right, we just fire 204 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.960 the coaches. Well, happen? How, come on, I have is 205 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.360 it be to be all the time, right, all the time, and 206 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:15.120 then that next person gets way more resources than you ever had to do the 207 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.039 kind of things that you wanted to do. So step back, take a 208 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.399 deep breath and say, you know what we can fix this, but let's 209 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.480 step back and do what we need to do. So let's start with that 210 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.399 customer research. Let's figure out why our brand isn't connecting, and those are 211 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:36.840 the bread proms. Do those interviews. Talk to sales, talk to customers, 212 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.720 talk to analyst, do all kinds of third party research. That doesn't 213 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.440 have to be super expensive. Gather that data, the more first person with 214 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.440 customers the better. Then take a deep breath, look at it and try 215 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:55.519 to understand kind of what it's telling you. Because if you have an issue, 216 00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:00.200 whether it's that experience, you're disappointing customers, you have bad reviews on 217 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:06.519 Gtwo or trust radius, start addressing those things right. Start addressing those things. 218 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.240 If you believe in the company and you believe that you have a good 219 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:14.720 product. Had A few missteps, you can make that right. You can 220 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.039 totally make that right, but it has to be very deliberate. You have 221 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:22.799 to, you know, start one step at a time to kind of fix 222 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.200 that. Yeah, there's it's interesting because I wrote down as you were you're 223 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:32.240 talking there. There's internal and there's external brand as well. So there is 224 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.160 the way that you think of your customers think about you, and then there's 225 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.680 also the way that your employees think about the brand and think about the thing 226 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.960 that they're a part of, and it's oftentimes you can tell that something's leaking 227 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.279 either. Sometimes it's on both sides, but, like you definitely can tell 228 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.119 in that mix and brand encompasses both and I think you're in a great job 229 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:57.200 of saying how we can potentially re position or start to identify and then change. 230 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:03.000 You mentioned strong why you mentioned and delighting the customer. One another one 231 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.880 I think we talked about maybe offline, was this idea of crisp messaging being 232 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:11.559 a big part of brand. I wonder how you solidify that and kind of 233 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.079 hone in on that new sort of crisp messaging. Yeah, that's a great 234 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.920 point and and I first want to go back to what you said. You're 235 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:23.319 absolutely right that brand has like it's three, three hundred sixty degrees. So 236 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:29.440 it's critical to get that alignment inside and outside. So that I'm glad you 237 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.519 brought that point up. So really interesting. I had an I had an 238 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.240 exercise. It could have even been this morning, but this other company I 239 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:42.119 was I'm working with right we did all this research, we did customer surveys, 240 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:47.240 talk to a lot of people looked at their competitors, you name it, 241 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:52.160 looked at their positioning and everything else. I really had after all of 242 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:53.400 that. It's not like I pulled it out of the air. I mean 243 00:18:53.440 --> 00:19:00.200 I actually really felt like I understood where they could play and I articulated it 244 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:06.359 in a meeting and I got hit, swatted down by the CEM. How 245 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:11.400 does that mean? And I'm like, I kind of decided to not push 246 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.000 it. Okay, I'll go back to the drawing board, I'll figure out, 247 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:17.680 try to come up with something else right and I tried to do that, 248 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.319 but in my heart of hearts I kind of thought that it was the 249 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:25.480 right positioning. So fast forward to this morning. I was invited in. 250 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.880 They call it a in advisory board, a customer advisory board. Listen for 251 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.640 about an hour. They were talking about why they join, what their experiences 252 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.000 were, how they felt, and I then, when we got to talk 253 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.480 to them, I sort of floated this idea very gently about what I was 254 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:48.079 hearing and I articulated the way I thought. I didn't say this is where 255 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.599 I'm going to position the company. I said, well, do you think 256 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:55.119 this sounds like? Is this what you're saying? And are. All the 257 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.759 heads nodded and the CEO was on the call, by the way. All 258 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:02.839 the heads nodded. And then we got into that and they really dug into 259 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.759 it and gave these unbelievable examples of why they felt that way. and to 260 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.240 me now again, that's what there was, only validation by sex, but 261 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.839 to me that's the start of it. You know, if you can get 262 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:22.119 people who use the brand to go, that's exactly how I feel. To 263 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:26.240 me, that's like super powerful, but again, not in a vacuum. 264 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:30.640 You always need that feedback, because I could come up with something that's so 265 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.839 off the wall right and then customers aren't going to respond to it at all. 266 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:40.039 You have to take your ideas and test it, test it tested before 267 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:45.240 you roll it out. But that's good validation. Like I feel very good 268 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.039 that we're on our way to coming up with the right answer for positioning this 269 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:55.400 company right because of that reaction we got today. I love that as an 270 00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:00.200 example and it really does drive home the important because with and and with messaging, 271 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.000 if it's not resonating with the people that it needs to resonate with and 272 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.480 it's not worth anything. Can Be the most creative thing ever but clearly that's 273 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.880 not like that's not the ultimate goal, right, we're helping solve problems and 274 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:17.599 so exactly it. There's a there's an expression being too clever by half. 275 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:19.960 You know, I don't know if you get before. Yeah, well, 276 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:23.599 sometimes, and I could be guilty of it too, you know, you 277 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:30.839 try to be clever and you are, but you miss you miss your you 278 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.559 miss your audience. Great, you're clever exactly. So that's kind of like 279 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:40.599 being clever by by had too clever by half. Yeah, I like this 280 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.759 a good, great conversation here, Laurie. I. As we start to 281 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:48.000 wrap up, I wonder any resources you would point us in the direction of 282 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:53.000 things that help you continue your thought process on brand and for those that want 283 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.359 to continue to go down this road and think about repositioning specifically around brand, 284 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.480 anything that you would point us in the direction of? So you know, 285 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:06.400 there are there are books like Blue Ocean strategy that you could read that I 286 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:08.200 think is good, which is sort of an Oldie, you know, but 287 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:15.200 but still incredibly relevant, even if you read books like good to great also, 288 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.680 you know, kind of good good reads, some of the other stuff. 289 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.319 I mean, I do listen to PODCASTS, I listen to demand Jen 290 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:27.000 live. I listen to a podcast by the guy who I'm so bad at 291 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.039 this, who started like linkedin. That's also good. There's books on positioning. 292 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.720 I mean I can kind of give you a whole like laundry, laundry 293 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.440 list of of things, but linked in, just following some of the right 294 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:48.079 people on Linkedin. Yeah, Da Dave Garret Gerhart is another good one to 295 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.160 listen to. So it's always good to like, you know, also get 296 00:22:52.200 --> 00:23:00.960 different perspectives and find some really strong beat Toccmos to follow right and that's another 297 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.039 way to kind of see what they're doing and try to take what they're doing 298 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:08.039 and incorporate it in in what you're doing. But honestly, I just try 299 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.160 to stay you know, read the Harvard Business Review. You can get it 300 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:17.680 online. You just try to try to take in kind of as much information 301 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.039 as you as you kind of have time for, because there's nuggets and so 302 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:26.480 many you know, kind of so many areas. Yeah, Yep. Well, 303 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.920 I know there's going to be people that are listening to this that want 304 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.480 to stay connected with you, Laurie. Take a minute tell us where we 305 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:36.200 can connect with you and then tell us a little bit about chief outsiders as 306 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.640 we wrap up your okay, sure, so the place I'm probably most active 307 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:44.400 is linked in, sometimes more active than not, so that's a great place. 308 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:49.240 I am on twitter with the handle cat strat and those are probably the 309 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:55.079 two best places. Or the other place, as you said, I'm working 310 00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.200 for a company that's called chief outsiders. So that's really easy. Chief Outsiderscom, 311 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.200 and it is a group. It's a national organization of right now a 312 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:11.759 hundred and ten CMOS that had really like impressive careers and have decided that they 313 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.359 don't want another corporate full time job. They want to be a fractional CMO. 314 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.640 And I joined at the beginning of the year. I'm actually number ninety 315 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:25.720 seven, so I got in under a hundred Anna and that's great. And 316 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:32.319 there there are CMOS that have experience in industry, tech, beat a bit, 317 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.519 you name it. If you have a problem, I'm telling you there's 318 00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:40.119 someone in this group that can solve it. And mostly we work with, 319 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:44.759 say, midsize, some small mid sized companies. Say sweet spot is probably 320 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.960 fifty to a hundred, you know, million dollars in revenue and it's, 321 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.000 you know, oftentimes doing the things that I talked about you know, how 322 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.079 do you start that growth engine again? What's the plan you need? You 323 00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.079 know, and then basically, we come in. It could be for like 324 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:03.279 a sixmonth Gig to really take them through, you know, from strategy all 325 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.519 the way to execution, and then get them to a place that we can 326 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.720 leave and they could execute on their own. So it's free, it's very 327 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:17.119 I'm really excited to to be working with chief outsiders. It's a great group 328 00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:22.079 of people, professionals. Well, you were our fractional CMO today for be 329 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:25.480 tob growth as well. You came in, you consalted, you did your 330 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.519 job and now you get to leave. We want to say thanks so much 331 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:32.519 for being on the show and and dropping these insights. I know we're walking 332 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.680 away with a number of things around brand and how do we kind of get 333 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.640 back on track if after we plateau in this episode. So, Lori, 334 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:56.119 thanks so much for spending time with us on BB growth. We're always excited 335 00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.839 to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If there's a 336 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:03.640 marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need to have on 337 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:08.119 the show, reach out email me, ben dot block at Sweet Fish Mediacom. 338 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:10.680 I look forward to hearing from you.