Start Thinking About Go-To-Market as a Product

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah. 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.830 Welcome back to BBB growth. I'm Dan Sanchez with Sweet Fish Media. And 3 00:00:08.830 --> 00:00:12.660 today I'm joined by Sandra Menagerie, who is the co founder of Terminus and 4 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:17.060 the author of A B. M is B two b. Sandra. Um, thanks so much for joining me on 5 00:00:17.060 --> 00:00:21.750 the show today. Dan excited to be here. I'm glad we were able to make it happen. 6 00:00:22.340 --> 00:00:27.670 Absolutely. As everybody listening to this knows I did a deep dive into 7 00:00:27.670 --> 00:00:31.760 account based marketing through the month of February. Going from as a B 8 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:34.950 two c market are transitioning to be to be, it's been a fun journey. I've 9 00:00:34.950 --> 00:00:37.730 learned a lot about account based marketing, and I've certainly learned 10 00:00:37.730 --> 00:00:41.880 that Sandra is the man when it comes to account based marketing. In fact, when 11 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.560 I first started on the journey and asked for book recommendations, a B. M 12 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.690 s B two B was by part of the most recommended book that people are like, 13 00:00:48.690 --> 00:00:50.870 Oh, have you checked out this book? Have you checked out San Graham's book? 14 00:00:50.870 --> 00:00:54.540 Have you heard from San Graham? You were definitely the most frequently 15 00:00:54.540 --> 00:00:58.180 mentioned person when it came to getting into this topic of account 16 00:00:58.180 --> 00:01:01.820 based marketing, which I think is but Daniel while. But it's definitely 17 00:01:01.820 --> 00:01:06.400 picked up over the last five or six years would term in us, and you have a 18 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.860 new book coming out, and that's what we're gonna be talking about in this 19 00:01:10.340 --> 00:01:15.630 podcast recording today. So, Sandra, um, I'd like to even start before jumping 20 00:01:15.630 --> 00:01:19.810 into the book talking a little bit about, like, account based marketing 21 00:01:19.820 --> 00:01:26.200 like you started Terminus 56 years ago and naturally, like the category, the 22 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:30.490 whole meaning behind that word has evolved over time. So, like where has 23 00:01:30.490 --> 00:01:34.170 it come? And since the time you've actually founded the company well, two 24 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:37.110 things. One. You'll have to give me the list of all the people who dropped my 25 00:01:37.110 --> 00:01:41.220 name so I can send them all 10 bucks every time they did that. That that 26 00:01:41.220 --> 00:01:46.180 that's really what's happening there. But I appreciate and I love the fact 27 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:50.370 that you actually went deep and read as many books and as many different ideas 28 00:01:50.370 --> 00:01:53.250 that are around it, because that's going to make this conversation super 29 00:01:53.250 --> 00:01:58.640 rich. For me, the A B M is B two B was the second book, and quite frankly, I 30 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.250 remember this conversation with my publisher. They're like, All right, let 31 00:02:02.250 --> 00:02:06.870 me get this straight. You want to write a book that has two acronyms in the 32 00:02:06.870 --> 00:02:11.180 title, which is typically it has never, ever happened before. And what the heck 33 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:15.010 are those? Like, what is a B M and what is B two B? And I'm like, If you don't 34 00:02:15.010 --> 00:02:19.600 know, then you don't need to read the book. I just know this is the audience. 35 00:02:19.600 --> 00:02:23.560 And if if they don't know a b M or they haven't heard the word, the letters a B 36 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:27.040 M, then they don't need to read the book. This is not for them. So I was 37 00:02:27.040 --> 00:02:32.710 very intentional about making sure that it is as provocative as it can be in 38 00:02:32.710 --> 00:02:36.360 order for people to just get a shot in the arm and say, Well, is that really 39 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:41.260 or is it not? And the title itself came from the sales team, 40 00:02:42.340 --> 00:02:46.200 and I don't think most people understand that. Part is it came from 41 00:02:46.200 --> 00:02:50.460 the sales team, and I was I'm writing that my third one like that. I think a 42 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:53.800 lot of people start coming up with the title first and then to write the book. 43 00:02:53.810 --> 00:02:56.950 I typically try to write the book and then come up with the title, and the 44 00:02:56.950 --> 00:03:02.410 reason is you learn a lot about what's going on and you have to let your ego 45 00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:07.780 go aside and actually just be again a student off it. So that's how I became 46 00:03:07.790 --> 00:03:11.410 the author of the second book on a B. M s B. B was just I just became a student 47 00:03:11.410 --> 00:03:15.030 of a B M. And then to answer your question more directly on what has 48 00:03:15.030 --> 00:03:19.880 changed, I felt like that's literally the evolution in the book. Earlier, 49 00:03:19.890 --> 00:03:23.050 when we wrote the A B M accounts Marketing for Dummies, that Valleys 50 00:03:23.050 --> 00:03:27.650 published my first book, I honestly just thought it's a better mousetrap. 51 00:03:27.660 --> 00:03:32.640 It's a better acquisition. The whole flip my funnel movement was about Hey, 52 00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:36.340 look, why go after indie and everybody? Why not go after the right accounts if 53 00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:40.420 you know you can serve them the best? And that's really what my thesis for 54 00:03:40.420 --> 00:03:44.910 the first book that's part of the thesis for Launching Terminus and 55 00:03:44.910 --> 00:03:49.510 what's interesting is over the years I would constantly see people running all 56 00:03:49.510 --> 00:03:53.140 kinds of campaign that were very different than acquisition which is 57 00:03:53.140 --> 00:03:56.970 what led me to like, Wait a minute, What are they running? And really even 58 00:03:56.980 --> 00:04:00.660 even deeper? It seemed like, Whoa, marketers are now running pipeline 59 00:04:00.660 --> 00:04:05.850 velocity campaigns. That was a very big and new idea, and probably still a very 60 00:04:05.850 --> 00:04:09.500 big A new idea for a lot of people because marketers typically stop at the 61 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:14.680 acquisition because that's what their goal is. But modern organizations would 62 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:19.190 want marketers to go all the way to the sales part all the way to closing the 63 00:04:19.190 --> 00:04:23.820 deals. So I saw a pipeline velocity become a big deal, meaning, If you have 64 00:04:23.820 --> 00:04:27.360 deals in your pipe, you should be working on it. As a matter of fact, 65 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:31.400 then I would I would literally go on record and say that in every 66 00:04:31.400 --> 00:04:36.530 organization right now, listening to this if they stop acquisition whenever 67 00:04:36.530 --> 00:04:39.610 this goes launched, let's just say it gets, you know this podcast is launched 68 00:04:39.610 --> 00:04:46.580 in March April. If you stop acquisition completely, chances are, you might say, 69 00:04:46.580 --> 00:04:49.870 Oh, no. Then we're not gonna hit our numbers. You actually will still hit 70 00:04:49.870 --> 00:04:53.130 the numbers if you focus on your pipeline. As a matter of fact, you 71 00:04:53.130 --> 00:04:56.930 might actually break the record and hit better numbers at the end of the year 72 00:04:56.930 --> 00:05:01.930 from A from a revenue perspective. If you only focus on the pipeline and the 73 00:05:01.930 --> 00:05:06.460 reason is quite simple, those accounts that are in your pipeline are the ones 74 00:05:06.460 --> 00:05:09.230 that raise their hand and said, We're going to buy from you or your 75 00:05:09.230 --> 00:05:14.650 competitor. So marketing, not working and helping the sales team to close 76 00:05:14.650 --> 00:05:19.100 those accounts is the greatest tragedy of marketing, quite frankly, very 77 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:22.830 dramatically. So. So why? I started seeing modern organizations focus on 78 00:05:22.830 --> 00:05:27.440 pipeline velocity and even further, as I have in the book Thomson Reuters, a 79 00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:31.750 big, massive company and others, they started focusing on expansion deals. 80 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:35.710 They're like, Look, we got more than one product. We already know these 81 00:05:35.710 --> 00:05:39.960 accounts. These are our customers. They love us, and we want to make sure that 82 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:45.000 we can now up sell cross sell. I like to call observing them with new 83 00:05:45.010 --> 00:05:49.490 services that we have, but they don't know. They just know us as a company X, 84 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:53.400 but we do five other things. So they started creating expansion. So that's 85 00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:56.730 really what led me to this understanding and feeling like, man, 86 00:05:56.740 --> 00:06:02.400 this is bigger than acquisition. This is bigger than marketing automation. So 87 00:06:02.400 --> 00:06:05.700 when I interviewed and had a lot of sales people part of the process, I 88 00:06:05.700 --> 00:06:10.390 remember every time everybody coming in, that's just better marketing. That's 89 00:06:10.390 --> 00:06:14.170 just be to be that I mean people. People will say that flippantly, and I 90 00:06:14.170 --> 00:06:17.960 started to make a note of it, and I'm like, That's what people are saying And 91 00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:22.190 that became the title of the book. So my whole journey thesis from being just 92 00:06:22.190 --> 00:06:26.440 an acquisition only story turned into more of like the way marketing should 93 00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:29.940 work and sales should work. Hey, man, I'm drinking the Kool Aid honestly, 94 00:06:29.940 --> 00:06:33.230 after doing the deep dive, that was one of the things I was trying to figure 95 00:06:33.230 --> 00:06:36.310 out is, Is this just a better form of marketing? And my conclusion after 96 00:06:36.310 --> 00:06:40.990 doing it was like, No, this is very different because you can't You can't 97 00:06:40.990 --> 00:06:46.020 do this and be to see like this doesn't work in B two C In most situations, 98 00:06:46.020 --> 00:06:49.040 right? There's probably some obscure situations where you can still do this, 99 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.410 but in most cases like this is very much a B two B strategy that maybe btg 100 00:06:54.410 --> 00:06:56.560 right, because there's a lot of similarities there, but it's kind of 101 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.460 like this is a very particular thing. There's a good definition of it. 102 00:06:59.640 --> 00:07:03.240 There's a good approach to it. There's a way you can measure it as differently 103 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.890 than what you're doing with other marketing activities. It's very well 104 00:07:05.890 --> 00:07:10.490 defined. Uh, I even got into a long conversation with a lot of people two 105 00:07:10.490 --> 00:07:14.400 weeks ago on actually picking apart demand Jin as a cat as a category, I 106 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:18.330 was like demand. Jin is actually harder to define its very loosey goosey on its 107 00:07:18.330 --> 00:07:22.990 definition. I'd almost make an argument that demand GEN as a category is much 108 00:07:22.990 --> 00:07:27.760 more closely to just good marketing. A B M is very specific. You can literally 109 00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:31.180 do all your normal marketing stuff and do a B M as this whole separate 110 00:07:31.180 --> 00:07:35.080 activity. I do have a question for you mentioned. If somebody stops doing 111 00:07:35.080 --> 00:07:39.050 acquisition that they would be able to do better in their pipeline, do you 112 00:07:39.050 --> 00:07:42.500 mean that they were just reallocate funds to doing the marketing and 113 00:07:42.500 --> 00:07:45.970 advertising to those who are in their pipeline or just dropping it all 114 00:07:45.970 --> 00:07:49.710 together? And do you mean that they would like focus like have more focus 115 00:07:49.710 --> 00:07:52.810 for the pipeline like What do you mean? But honestly challenge everybody to 116 00:07:52.810 --> 00:07:57.310 literally say, Let me let me put it this way When I used to go out and 117 00:07:57.310 --> 00:08:01.440 speak like not not virtuous, it's kind of doing a lot of it. It's hard to get 118 00:08:01.440 --> 00:08:05.420 super audience participation on it, but I will typically speak at events and 119 00:08:05.420 --> 00:08:09.690 say Raise your hand if you send a newsletter and almost every person in 120 00:08:09.690 --> 00:08:14.630 the 3000 people they raise their hand and like Great, Now keep your hand 121 00:08:14.630 --> 00:08:20.620 raised. If nobody if the people you're sending to and if you say let's say you 122 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:24.860 stop sending your newsletter next week or next month, you'll have somebody 123 00:08:24.860 --> 00:08:28.560 pick up the phone or email you back and saying, Hey, why didn't you send your 124 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.530 newsletter? I was waiting for it. Raise your hand if that actually ever 125 00:08:31.530 --> 00:08:36.760 happened to anybody, none? None. And I'm like, Well, that's the challenge. 126 00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:41.039 That's the problem in nutshell that we're doing what we feel is right. 127 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:47.230 We're not doing what the what the customer feels is right. So if we take 128 00:08:47.230 --> 00:08:52.480 out 80% of the activities that actually marketing does, that is demand Gen or 129 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:57.830 Awareness. They actually do nothing. They really don't drive revenue. They 130 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.900 really don't create business. It goes back to the staff from Forest, or less 131 00:09:01.900 --> 00:09:07.070 than 1% of the lead started to customers is just a fact. So with that 132 00:09:07.070 --> 00:09:12.210 as the backdrop of it, my challenge for organization is that, honestly, if you 133 00:09:12.210 --> 00:09:17.090 recognize that 80% of stuff you do don't really drive business value or 134 00:09:17.090 --> 00:09:22.150 drive revenue, then why not just drop it? No, don't do it. And instead of 135 00:09:22.150 --> 00:09:26.020 that, you will now have all this time and all these resources and all these 136 00:09:26.020 --> 00:09:30.710 budgetary opportunities that you have and actually focus on the 50 deals that 137 00:09:30.710 --> 00:09:34.530 are in pipeline that are supposed to close in the next three quarters. Go 138 00:09:34.530 --> 00:09:38.220 ask any salesperson. What are your top deals you're working on? They don't 139 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:42.160 need to look at any stinking CRM. No, they know it in their head like, Hey, 140 00:09:42.160 --> 00:09:46.350 here are my top 10 deals that's going to help me close my quota and actually 141 00:09:46.350 --> 00:09:50.420 make revenue. And that's how I put food on the table from my family when you 142 00:09:50.420 --> 00:09:55.150 know that. And if they say if the marketing team can now create unsalable 143 00:09:55.160 --> 00:10:00.930 experiences for those 50 accounts. My bet is on that that you can close a lot 144 00:10:00.930 --> 00:10:04.530 of those 50 accounts. The problem is, we try to scale everything. We try to 145 00:10:04.530 --> 00:10:08.700 dilute everything. We try to create things that nobody really wants and 146 00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:12.690 then wonder what we need. More budget to do, different things. But I'll 147 00:10:12.690 --> 00:10:18.240 challenge instead of asking for more. How about cut it out? Stop creating any 148 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.100 books that nobody is reading. Stop creating social posts that actually get 149 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:26.500 zero likes or favorites or engagement on it. Stop sending newsletters every 150 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:30.230 week or whatever. If if nobody if you never. If you didn't send that, If 151 00:10:30.230 --> 00:10:34.040 nobody's gonna cry, then what will happen for a month or two months if you 152 00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:37.980 just stop doing that? And I promise people will find more time, more budget, 153 00:10:37.980 --> 00:10:42.550 more resources and the sales team will love you. And that's how you actually 154 00:10:42.550 --> 00:10:45.740 drive business impact. Hey, there's a lot of things you said in there that I 155 00:10:45.740 --> 00:10:50.830 was like, Yeah, absolutely. I'm doing it. Uh, I was spending like 90% of our 156 00:10:50.830 --> 00:10:54.970 budget just targeting everybody, or at least the segments that I was carving 157 00:10:54.970 --> 00:10:59.380 out on Facebook and Google very typical Legion type approach. And after doing 158 00:10:59.380 --> 00:11:03.340 the series, I'm like Nope, now, at least through we have a smaller budget. 159 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:06.090 So LinkedIn ads becomes kind of like the best place where I can actually 160 00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:10.000 just target the exact companies we want to target. I'm like I'm dropping 80 to 161 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:13.050 90% of my budget on that and, of course, retargeting. Once I can get them from 162 00:11:13.050 --> 00:11:16.370 Lincoln to our website. But I know I have control over a little bit more 163 00:11:16.370 --> 00:11:19.120 control over which accounts are actually seeing it. I'm like I'm pretty 164 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.720 much shifting all my ad budget that way. It just makes sense A B M just makes. 165 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:27.340 Since if I would have been able to do this in B two c and could only target 166 00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:32.930 the people who had the means and we're in somewhat in the market for what I 167 00:11:32.930 --> 00:11:35.730 could sell, then I would have only targeted them. But there's no way to do 168 00:11:35.730 --> 00:11:40.590 that and be. But in b two b, you can know what you just said. I wish it 169 00:11:40.590 --> 00:11:44.310 should be an auto play For every person who listen every morning as they drive 170 00:11:44.310 --> 00:11:49.280 or get on the call get their coffee on is like If you are in B two B, it's a 171 00:11:49.280 --> 00:11:54.210 privilege right now because we always have. The other person has a better 172 00:11:54.210 --> 00:11:57.940 like green or yard right, like there's just a feeling that everyone Oh, I wish 173 00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:02.040 I wasn't B two c It's more sexy. We could do really cool things. We can 174 00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:05.850 just run a bunch of email campaigns. You know, if you are in B two c, you 175 00:12:05.850 --> 00:12:10.660 have absolutely no idea how and who you can serve all the time, like there's 176 00:12:10.660 --> 00:12:14.910 just so much pressure on driving revenue immediately a regular basis. 177 00:12:14.910 --> 00:12:17.820 Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. You create all these brand 178 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:22.180 campaigns hoping that things would happen. But you're not not necessary. 179 00:12:22.180 --> 00:12:27.510 As an example, I drive a Jeep gladiator. So people who are in Jeeps, they will 180 00:12:27.510 --> 00:12:31.440 be like, Oh, that's really cool. But who? I mean, how did how did they 181 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:36.510 target me? How did they get me like it was 10 years ago when I was like almost 182 00:12:36.510 --> 00:12:40.880 15 years ago when I was in University of Alabama and I would see Jeep jeeps 183 00:12:40.890 --> 00:12:44.440 all over the place and I'm like I want to run on a Jeep one day like that just 184 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.960 became a dream and I saw ads and I saw people and all that stuff, and I went 185 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.230 and bought a Jeep gladiator. Well, how in the hell who gets credit for it in B 186 00:12:51.230 --> 00:12:55.530 two C like who will get credit for that? Like it's It's really hard. But in b 187 00:12:55.530 --> 00:13:02.850 two b, you know the 500 accounts that you can serve the best you know, who 188 00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:06.600 are the accounts that you can actually make People get promoted in their 189 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:11.730 organization if you serve them better. You know what pain points they have and 190 00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:15.140 how many people are in the decision making process. So if you know all that, 191 00:13:15.150 --> 00:13:18.790 you have a privilege, and I think people need to take responsibility for 192 00:13:18.790 --> 00:13:23.680 it. Absolutely. And honestly, you got to take responsibility for the 193 00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:27.890 marketing budget you've been entrusted to actually spend better. But we're 194 00:13:27.890 --> 00:13:31.930 home a fan boy, you are clearly a fan of a B. M. You've written two books on 195 00:13:31.930 --> 00:13:36.530 it. So when we know where a bms bim I'd love to learn from you, Sandra, um, a 196 00:13:36.530 --> 00:13:40.540 little bit more about where you think the whole category is going. Things are 197 00:13:40.540 --> 00:13:45.270 changing viewpoints on a BMS changing technology is changing. A lot of 198 00:13:45.270 --> 00:13:48.190 interesting things going on. Even what cookies and all those kinds of 199 00:13:48.190 --> 00:13:51.630 technological things changing. Um, and the category is expanding is getting 200 00:13:51.630 --> 00:13:55.060 bigger. People are getting better at it with all these things going. And you've 201 00:13:55.060 --> 00:13:59.860 been in the category for so long now, like, where do you see it going? And 202 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.860 tell me a little bit about like where your book fits into it is. I'd love to 203 00:14:03.860 --> 00:14:07.250 learn about what you're writing, where you see it going. So give me. Give me a 204 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:12.310 glimpse of the future. Well, well, here we go. You know, in order to see the 205 00:14:12.310 --> 00:14:16.770 future, we always have to know where we came from, right? So, uh, it's it's 206 00:14:16.770 --> 00:14:21.040 important to recognize that as we go and look at the evolution of it, we we 207 00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:26.120 see that email was a big part of what marketing did and and it still is doing. 208 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:29.890 And that was a big category at one point. And then, uh, it just became a 209 00:14:29.890 --> 00:14:33.920 part of what marketers do you. Then you look at marketing automation that 210 00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:37.150 became a big part of what marketers do, and everybody now uses marketing 211 00:14:37.150 --> 00:14:41.780 automation. But these are all technologies. Ultimately, the reason a 212 00:14:41.780 --> 00:14:47.270 BM became so phenomenally big compared to any of these two things where these 213 00:14:47.270 --> 00:14:51.800 two became a subset of the A B M is because it is a strategy. It's not a 214 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:55.970 tool like anybody who comes and says to me how we use Terminus and I'm doing a 215 00:14:55.970 --> 00:14:59.910 B M. I'm like, No, you're not. You're doing a B M to the best ability that 216 00:14:59.910 --> 00:15:03.160 terminus allows you to do. But if you're not doing direct mail and not 217 00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:07.800 using PFL or Alice or any of these folks, you're not creating high tech 218 00:15:07.800 --> 00:15:11.320 and high touch experiences. If you're not using something like outlook 219 00:15:11.330 --> 00:15:15.410 outreach or sales loft and creating those cadences, your you don't have 220 00:15:15.410 --> 00:15:19.020 your sales team baked into it. So, no, you're not doing a B M because you use 221 00:15:19.020 --> 00:15:22.620 one software. You you do A B M, and you actually have a holistic strategy 222 00:15:22.630 --> 00:15:26.990 around an account that you're going after. So So that's why a B M is so 223 00:15:26.990 --> 00:15:31.400 much more bigger in value evaluation and all that stuff, but it still took 224 00:15:31.400 --> 00:15:38.790 me six years than six years to convince the analyst world to put and put us on 225 00:15:38.790 --> 00:15:44.730 a wave six years for Forrester to create an a medium wave that that they 226 00:15:44.730 --> 00:15:48.950 didn't create. And until they create a VM like like, way for your product, it 227 00:15:48.950 --> 00:15:53.450 is actually not a truest of category, because when you create a wave, you 228 00:15:53.450 --> 00:15:57.520 actually become an enterprise class solutions. So now, finally, when they 229 00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:02.800 created last year, where A B M has now become a something that that's actually 230 00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:06.520 where enterprises where RFEF are needed where companies saying, We've got to do 231 00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:10.240 this, who are the best on top right quarter and let's have them comments. 232 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:14.430 So finally, after six years, so it takes a long time is a big lesson for 233 00:16:14.430 --> 00:16:18.690 me and that, like when you think about creating categories, what now I see 234 00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:22.500 when I see the future and what I'm writing on right now is a new North 235 00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:27.830 Star. Because all of that email marketing automation was about helping 236 00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:33.410 marketers get their job done easier, maybe faster, Um, in a in a tactical 237 00:16:33.410 --> 00:16:37.970 way, a B M elevated that to a strategy that brought marketing and sales 238 00:16:37.970 --> 00:16:41.200 together and said that we are one team we need to work together. We gotta have 239 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.920 the same metrics, the same target accounts and all the team framework 240 00:16:44.920 --> 00:16:50.060 that we talk about in the book. But then I think where I feel we're going 241 00:16:50.060 --> 00:16:54.980 now is to go to market is like ultimately, you know, the new North 242 00:16:54.980 --> 00:16:58.830 Star. For organizations through understand a B M is actually what is 243 00:16:58.830 --> 00:17:03.690 their go to market process meaning? How do I bring not only marketing and sales, 244 00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:08.050 but also customers success together that becomes your high performing go to 245 00:17:08.050 --> 00:17:12.480 market revenue team. And that's what I'm writing right now about Is that how 246 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:18.670 organizations go from an organization that is focused on leads to then focus 247 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:23.560 on accounts to now focus on customers? Uh, in another way, said it could be 248 00:17:23.560 --> 00:17:28.400 How do you go from ideation to transition to execution? Uh, a 249 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:32.080 different way, even from the framework perspective, to think about. How do you 250 00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:36.700 go from a problem market fit to a product market fit to a platform market 251 00:17:36.700 --> 00:17:40.860 fit? And I'm throwing all these phrases because I want people to recognize that 252 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.210 as an organization evolves, they will have to start thinking about it in 253 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:49.680 business context and business terms. And businesses don't always say the 254 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:54.500 same things as people in the execution level. Say so you right now as a 255 00:17:54.510 --> 00:17:57.310 marketing or sales leader may be thinking about leads, accounts and 256 00:17:57.310 --> 00:18:00.350 customers, that's great. But if you ask your CEO, what is he talking about? 257 00:18:00.350 --> 00:18:02.990 What is she talking about? They're not talking about leads accounts in 258 00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:06.370 customers' they're talking about. Hey, we are in the transition phase. We are 259 00:18:06.370 --> 00:18:10.040 in the growth phase. We're in the execution phase like that's those 260 00:18:10.040 --> 00:18:14.690 That's the vocabulary they're using. So, ultimately, where I think the market is 261 00:18:14.690 --> 00:18:20.700 moving is figuring out what is our go to market process strategy, Uh, and and 262 00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:27.350 almost thinking about go to market as a product itself. Hey, everybody, Logan 263 00:18:27.350 --> 00:18:30.550 with sweet fish here, if you've been listening to the show for a while, you 264 00:18:30.550 --> 00:18:34.970 know we're big proponents of putting out original organic content on linked 265 00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:38.990 in. But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to 266 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.920 easily track the reach of that linked in content. That's why I was really 267 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:46.530 excited when I heard about shield the other day from a connection on you 268 00:18:46.530 --> 00:18:50.790 guessed it linked in. Since our team started using shield, I've loved how 269 00:18:50.790 --> 00:18:55.420 it's led us easily track and analyze the performance of Arlington content 270 00:18:55.430 --> 00:18:59.620 without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates 271 00:18:59.620 --> 00:19:03.400 reports and generate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see 272 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.840 things like what contents been performing the best and what days of 273 00:19:06.840 --> 00:19:10.300 the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views 274 00:19:10.300 --> 00:19:14.060 proposed? I highly suggest you guys check out this tool. If you're putting 275 00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:18.080 out content on LinkedIn, and if you're not, you should be. It's been a game 276 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:23.300 changer for us. If you go to shield app dot ai and check out the 10 day free 277 00:19:23.300 --> 00:19:28.830 trial. You can even use our promo code B two B growth to get a 25% discount. 278 00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:35.240 Again, that's shield app dot ai And that promo code is B. The number to be 279 00:19:35.250 --> 00:19:42.720 growth All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. So how do you 280 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:47.770 product is that I mean its go to market strategies, the whole value creation 281 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.910 kind of like the whole process that you're bringing to market in order to 282 00:19:51.910 --> 00:19:55.610 deliver value. At least that's how I understand. Go to market. How do you 283 00:19:55.610 --> 00:19:59.910 actually product is that you said at the end and I was like Wait, what? Yeah, 284 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.550 yeah, well, I mean, that's where things are going. Like we are going to create 285 00:20:03.550 --> 00:20:08.740 a go to market cloud as a company, but just like a B M. It's a strategy, so we 286 00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:12.830 will not have the monopoly on it. Just like we don't have a monopoly on a B M. 287 00:20:12.830 --> 00:20:17.250 Anybody can go and create a bunch of A B M platforms in different pieces to it, 288 00:20:17.250 --> 00:20:21.270 because there are different pieces to it. But A B M was very much constricted 289 00:20:21.270 --> 00:20:25.250 to marketing and a lot of the things that created very in marketing. So if 290 00:20:25.250 --> 00:20:29.090 you think about, let's just take our company as an example Terminus. We made 291 00:20:29.090 --> 00:20:33.280 four different acquisitions. We were in ads company when we started. Then we 292 00:20:33.290 --> 00:20:37.650 acquired bright funnel so that we can help companies look at analytics from 293 00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:41.610 all the advertising they do. Then we acquired Ramble chat so we can create 294 00:20:41.610 --> 00:20:45.440 personalized experiences where people on the website, then we acquired 295 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.550 warfare so we can give them intend data around what's happening and how do they 296 00:20:49.550 --> 00:20:53.040 look at the next set of accounts they need to go after. If you really take a 297 00:20:53.040 --> 00:20:56.560 step back and think about that makes no sense. If I said hey accompanies 298 00:20:56.560 --> 00:21:01.390 acquiring a chat platform and an ad platform and analytics platform like it 299 00:21:01.390 --> 00:21:04.790 doesn't make sense, but it makes sense when you pull that together in a 300 00:21:04.790 --> 00:21:09.050 strategy, saying, Well, we're helping you do your A B M strategy. Similarly, 301 00:21:09.060 --> 00:21:13.250 I feel when you think about go to market, it is a full on strategy. So in 302 00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:17.820 a go to market process, you would say I want to creative marketing solutions, 303 00:21:17.830 --> 00:21:22.650 customer solutions and sale solution and all of them need to work together 304 00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:26.760 in order for us to have one view around it, have one go to market scorecard. 305 00:21:26.770 --> 00:21:30.160 I'll give you a very specific example then that's happening in our 306 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.990 organization that I believe, is starting to happen in more and more 307 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:38.330 modern organizations. Every Tuesday we have a team meeting an executive 308 00:21:38.330 --> 00:21:43.100 meeting, and Mallory Mallory Lee, who runs our revenue operations. She runs 309 00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:47.890 that meeting. She opens that meeting. She opens with a go to market scorecard 310 00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:52.640 and says that folks, here is the truth. Here's where we are in the revenue here 311 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.820 as we are in the expansion revenue. Here we are, the gross margins and 312 00:21:55.820 --> 00:21:59.610 gross profits. She literally puts the gold market scorecard and then the 313 00:21:59.610 --> 00:22:04.190 conversation begins. And then we get into priorities from last entire year. 314 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:09.150 That is exactly every single executive meeting has started. So I think 315 00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:13.150 marketers need to recognize that what's really happening at the C level at the 316 00:22:13.150 --> 00:22:17.940 C level. They're talking about business outcomes in terms. So I feel marketing 317 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:22.010 is gonna if they want to. Uplevel the conversation go to market is really 318 00:22:22.010 --> 00:22:24.830 where they need to get in. It's like, Well, whatever we do, how does that 319 00:22:24.830 --> 00:22:29.730 impact our business to to move from Point A to point B? And I think that's 320 00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:33.550 a whole strategy, and that will turn into a product bandit man, that makes 321 00:22:33.550 --> 00:22:39.220 so much sense. I had somebody asked me. I had posted that I on Lincoln recently 322 00:22:39.220 --> 00:22:43.220 that I read every book I could find on account based marketing, spent 11 books 323 00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:47.730 and 11 Oh my God, that's a lot. I didn't realize there were so many 11 324 00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:50.930 books. Some of them are small and obscure and written by people that I'd 325 00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:54.730 never heard before. I had to go dive deep and find them all. And I include 326 00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:59.120 some books that are probably more B two B in general, but have a good section 327 00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:03.130 on a B M like Samantha Stones Book Unleashed. Possible has a great A B M 328 00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:06.860 section, but it's more of a B two b book. I put James book in there because 329 00:23:06.870 --> 00:23:11.960 it has, uh, a B M applications for sure that we use all the time, um, so 11 330 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.890 different books. There's probably more I could add eventually, and eventually 331 00:23:14.890 --> 00:23:18.410 your new book will be on there. But somebody asked me like, Oh, he was 332 00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:21.770 asking for a book recommendation. I'm like, Sure, like, give me, like what? 333 00:23:21.770 --> 00:23:24.680 Where you're at and like, what flavor, what kind of thing you're looking for. 334 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.810 And since some books are better at different points than others, he's like, 335 00:23:27.810 --> 00:23:32.040 Well, I'd really like to learn how to bridge make a bridge with account based 336 00:23:32.040 --> 00:23:35.410 marketing between marketing, sales and customer service. I was like, Oh, no 337 00:23:35.410 --> 00:23:39.790 one's written that book yet, but I told him, like I have a feeling Sandra might 338 00:23:39.790 --> 00:23:44.460 be writing that book so that book might be coming out soon. It's funny you say 339 00:23:44.460 --> 00:23:48.810 that then, because here's here's the most fascinating thing. Like with all 340 00:23:48.810 --> 00:23:53.210 my books. I'm huge on research. I'm really, I mean, I really become a 341 00:23:53.210 --> 00:23:58.070 student again. Like that's how it's not an altruistic egoistic. Well, I got a 342 00:23:58.070 --> 00:24:02.920 point of view and I'm going to go with it. It's really I have a feeling, but I 343 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:07.390 want to get the right people to get it. So I interviewed like Brian Halligan CF 344 00:24:07.390 --> 00:24:12.370 hubspot Manny, you know CF outreach. You know Sydney itself, like Nick Mata, 345 00:24:12.370 --> 00:24:16.590 CEO of Gain Side like a bunch of CEOs. Bunch of VCs with billion dollar 346 00:24:16.590 --> 00:24:21.940 portfolios, bunch of CMOs, bunch of Cros, bunch of analysts. Uh, a bunch of 347 00:24:21.950 --> 00:24:25.240 a B M. R s. So six different perspectives as I started writing this 348 00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:32.470 this book and what's interesting is that every CEO I asked them who owns go 349 00:24:32.470 --> 00:24:36.410 to market and that's the same question. Asked every single one of these six 350 00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:41.590 different six different leaders. What's interesting is every CEO said, outside 351 00:24:41.590 --> 00:24:47.650 of the vision and culture which obviously the CEO owns Ultimately, um, 352 00:24:47.660 --> 00:24:51.410 go to market is the one thing that they absolutely own. No matter if there are 353 00:24:51.410 --> 00:24:54.560 public company CEO like Brian Halligan, whose like for the last 30 years, 354 00:24:54.560 --> 00:24:57.500 that's what I owned all the way to a startup company CEO saying, Well, if 355 00:24:57.500 --> 00:25:01.550 that if I don't know that, what do I own? What's interesting is the CMO 356 00:25:01.550 --> 00:25:06.690 start with the CRL own set. Well, when you go to an analyst, they think that 357 00:25:06.690 --> 00:25:10.810 maybe the CMOs, because they think about it, is just product launches. So 358 00:25:10.820 --> 00:25:14.670 it's really interesting that all these key people who are part of the go to 359 00:25:14.670 --> 00:25:19.980 market process, that machinery that takes dreams of founders into reality 360 00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:24.870 in the marketplace for what customers benefit from there is a gap there. And 361 00:25:24.870 --> 00:25:29.440 there is that Gap is really where we're trying to create the understanding of 362 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.020 like, well, it's a process. I think Brian Halligan said it the best. He 363 00:25:33.020 --> 00:25:33.550 said, 364 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.770 Go to market national. How do you define it? He said. Well, you know, a 365 00:25:37.770 --> 00:25:41.010 lot of people go on a weekend trip and try to figure out what their go to 366 00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:45.010 market strategy is going to be and come back and say This is it what he 367 00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:50.140 realized in 14 years of billionaire company 200 r r. Right now it was just 368 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:54.730 ridiculous, like 100,000 customers or something like that now. And he said 369 00:25:54.730 --> 00:26:00.060 the one thing that he realized is that go to market is itself. Think about it 370 00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:04.260 like a product, meaning. Think about that. It's going to iterate. It's gonna 371 00:26:04.260 --> 00:26:07.030 change. It's gonna hook up with different things. It's going to have 372 00:26:07.030 --> 00:26:10.930 different milestones, and it's a constant evolution of things. And it 373 00:26:10.930 --> 00:26:14.780 was really interesting, like he didn't use the word strategy at all, he said. 374 00:26:14.780 --> 00:26:20.130 It's not a strategy. Vision is. You have a vision, but it's not a strategy. 375 00:26:20.130 --> 00:26:23.450 It's a process, it's a product. So it was really interesting as I'm going 376 00:26:23.450 --> 00:26:26.700 through all of these interviews that oh my God, it's so much more deeper and 377 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:30.040 there's so many different ideas that people have, and I hope that this book 378 00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:33.160 distills it out. You know, it's interesting, actually reminds me a lot 379 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.770 of something I was teaching on yesterday. I taught a small college 380 00:26:36.770 --> 00:26:39.560 class and interesting I'm a marketer, but I was teaching this small class on 381 00:26:39.560 --> 00:26:44.370 finance. I mean, I was I was running them through, like as they were taking 382 00:26:44.370 --> 00:26:46.660 their entrepreneurship marriage years. I'm like, there's one thing you need to 383 00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:49.810 understand and finance is kind of like, you know, the P and L. You need to be 384 00:26:49.810 --> 00:26:52.890 able to take your business idea and validate it financially like and get 385 00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:55.100 good at doing this in your head like watch shark tank. They're like 386 00:26:55.100 --> 00:26:58.530 constantly asking questions to figure out if they have financial, viable 387 00:26:58.530 --> 00:27:01.840 models, right? But you need to essentially stop looking at it as the 388 00:27:01.840 --> 00:27:05.900 product and look at it as the system of delivering the product right. You need 389 00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:09.270 us not look at what they make. But the system for making it is that kind of 390 00:27:09.270 --> 00:27:12.710 what you mean by a go to market is the not the product, not not what you're 391 00:27:12.710 --> 00:27:15.680 delivering, but the system for delivering it. You're absolutely right. 392 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.500 I think you need to think about that is your product. That's what you work on 393 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:22.910 as the entrepreneur. Don't get caught up in making widgets. Yeah, you. You 394 00:27:22.910 --> 00:27:26.110 make the system for making widgets, and that's your real goal. That's what you 395 00:27:26.110 --> 00:27:30.240 have to think about? Absolutely. I think that is that is spot on that. 396 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:35.090 That is, it is. It is an act of process. It is a total process for your creating 397 00:27:35.090 --> 00:27:41.040 this connected experiences all over the place. But as a CEO, you actually have 398 00:27:41.040 --> 00:27:45.200 to come up with that and think about it or challenge your team to do it. And 399 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:50.410 you have all these teams to execute on it. But gosh, no CEO talks about leads 400 00:27:50.410 --> 00:27:54.670 and accounts and like, that's not how they talk about it. So there is a level 401 00:27:54.670 --> 00:27:58.450 of abstraction there, and and how do you bridge the gap of like, well, 402 00:27:58.450 --> 00:28:01.760 you're talking about? This is the business phase we are in, and this is 403 00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:06.040 how we are going to execute on that business phase and and how we go 404 00:28:06.040 --> 00:28:10.160 through it. I think that's the gap that I hope this, uh, this book bridges. And 405 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:14.390 you would say, the CEOs, the chief owner of the go to market, absolutely 406 00:28:14.390 --> 00:28:17.850 handed. I was surprised, and that's why it's fun to be a student and go back 407 00:28:17.850 --> 00:28:21.630 and ask, because I wouldn't have said that Honestly, I would have said maybe 408 00:28:21.630 --> 00:28:25.290 a C. R. O Or in some cases, many times people would say, Well, it's the 409 00:28:25.290 --> 00:28:29.440 marketing product launches Or maybe it's the sales revenue number, but no 410 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.180 go to market as we would redefine it for the world because it's just like a 411 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:36.770 B M. It was an old term, but it didn't really have all the bells and whistles 412 00:28:36.770 --> 00:28:40.120 for people to really understand. We hope that's what go to market is. It's 413 00:28:40.120 --> 00:28:44.460 an old term that people have a lot of baggage with and I hope we would be 414 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:48.840 able to clean it up, polish it up and actually put it back on the mantle and 415 00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:52.740 say, You know what? This is really what it really means. This is why and how we 416 00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:55.870 go about it. It's really interesting. It's making me think a lot because I 417 00:28:55.870 --> 00:28:58.740 think just before this conversation I would have said what you would have 418 00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:01.570 said, like, What are the chief responsibilities of CEO? And I would 419 00:29:01.570 --> 00:29:05.380 have been like culture and vision. That's why even you know, the current 420 00:29:05.380 --> 00:29:08.660 CEO, Microsoft is turning around Microsoft because he's so focused on 421 00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:12.410 vision and culture and Microsoft, right? I think no one, no one doubts that But 422 00:29:12.410 --> 00:29:16.280 at the same time, someone's got to be focused on how everything integrates to 423 00:29:16.280 --> 00:29:20.110 deliver the most value to the customer. And there's not a single person other 424 00:29:20.110 --> 00:29:24.530 than the CEO who can do it, because it touches everything from finance to 425 00:29:24.540 --> 00:29:28.320 marketing and sales and everything in between. So you're right. It has to be 426 00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:31.710 the CEO, and I never really considered that. I mean, always considered an 427 00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:34.960 entrepreneur who's building it. But even if for a larger company with all 428 00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:39.850 these complexities, it's gonna have to be the CEO and Bob Iger remember 429 00:29:39.850 --> 00:29:42.920 reading his biography recently, and it makes more sense now. I'm like, Oh, 430 00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:45.940 that's why he was the one really heading up these big deals with Pixar, 431 00:29:45.950 --> 00:29:49.320 even coming up with How do we even organize Disney Plus as a new business 432 00:29:49.320 --> 00:29:52.900 model for us? He was kind of the one putting all the big puzzle pieces 433 00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:55.840 together. Of course, he invited all the voices in and facilitated that 434 00:29:55.840 --> 00:30:00.260 conversation. But it's a big reason why Disney's continue to be relevant as 435 00:30:00.260 --> 00:30:04.910 culture has changed. So much is because he was paying attention to the go to 436 00:30:04.910 --> 00:30:09.310 market. So and and there's no you're right. They are the one who actually 437 00:30:09.310 --> 00:30:12.630 are thinking about it, waking up about it. They may not be the one who are 438 00:30:12.630 --> 00:30:17.000 executing on it, obviously, but gosh, like you know, how do you make deals 439 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.120 happen? How do you do? Acquisition. Do you open up marketing EMEA or do you 440 00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:24.700 actually launch a new product like there are ideas that come in? But 441 00:30:24.700 --> 00:30:28.220 you're the decision maker on it, or you have to push the organization to move 442 00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:32.750 in a certain direction to go in. So it's a It's a fascinating thing, and 443 00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:36.510 you're ready already. Point it is what brings the high performing go to market 444 00:30:36.510 --> 00:30:40.460 teams, which is the marketing, sales and customer success together. Um, and 445 00:30:40.460 --> 00:30:45.520 it is a strategy much like a B M. But it up levels itself to do a C level 446 00:30:45.520 --> 00:30:49.290 executive team as opposed to just repeat level team. So that's some good 447 00:30:49.290 --> 00:30:53.230 insight. One thing I thought about as we were talking about a B M entering 448 00:30:53.230 --> 00:30:56.340 the customer service arena. Is there any insights you can give on, like what 449 00:30:56.340 --> 00:30:59.770 that looks like in general, as opposed to the way B to B companies have done 450 00:30:59.770 --> 00:31:04.220 customer service before, be interested in hearing like a few a few points on 451 00:31:04.220 --> 00:31:09.610 what it looks like with account based marketing in mind. Yeah, well, it's 452 00:31:09.610 --> 00:31:13.090 interesting. I'll give you a sneak peek into it because just like last book 453 00:31:13.090 --> 00:31:17.660 where we introduced well, every book, write the first book, we introduce the 454 00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:21.230 flip my funnel as a framework. The last book. Maybe maybe it'll be introduced 455 00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:25.680 the team framework around Target engage activated measure. So in this book, we 456 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:30.020 can also introduce another framework, because to me, I mean, I'm a very 457 00:31:30.020 --> 00:31:33.480 simple mind, like I need a framework so I can see it. And there is freedom 458 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.300 within framework so people can can use it the way they want, and there's a 459 00:31:37.300 --> 00:31:42.330 maturity curve around it to see where they land on it. So you can self assess 460 00:31:42.330 --> 00:31:45.970 yourself where you are and then figure out where you want to go. So all it 461 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:49.830 says is a framework that answer these four questions, and I want to leave you 462 00:31:49.830 --> 00:31:54.020 with that part of it, because any more than that, I will do a disservice to my 463 00:31:54.020 --> 00:31:58.290 P R team and, uh, the publisher team beyond it. But here are the four 464 00:31:58.290 --> 00:32:01.570 questions that this this book will answer, and especially on the service 465 00:32:01.570 --> 00:32:06.010 side of the house. So think about this. The first question it will answer is 466 00:32:06.010 --> 00:32:11.470 the who question. Who should be market, too? That is a very esoteric question. 467 00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:15.750 Almost every person is asking it, and it touches on the A, B, M and levels of 468 00:32:15.750 --> 00:32:19.440 Tamai CP intent all that stuff. But answering the question. Who should be 469 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.480 market, too? And it will evolve depending upon the stage of your 470 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:27.230 organization is the second question it will answer is what do you need to 471 00:32:27.230 --> 00:32:32.480 operate effectively? This is where the revenue operations really becomes the 472 00:32:32.490 --> 00:32:36.360 Gold star, if you will, right, because they are the one who are the brains and 473 00:32:36.360 --> 00:32:41.320 are able to tell what is effective not, uh not not efficiency, but 474 00:32:41.330 --> 00:32:46.510 effectiveness of your business model. The third question this this book will 475 00:32:46.510 --> 00:32:50.520 answer is like, When can we scale our business? I'm sure. Then you get this 476 00:32:50.520 --> 00:32:53.330 question all the time from James and others is like, Well, what are we How 477 00:32:53.330 --> 00:32:57.150 are we going to scale this thing? And a lot of times organizations are either 478 00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:01.380 in by sales driven because that's how the business is in the beginning. Then 479 00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:04.610 they bring the marketing and sales together and then have marketing sales 480 00:33:04.610 --> 00:33:08.640 and customer success together. So it becomes an exercise of privatization, 481 00:33:08.650 --> 00:33:12.410 if you will. And then the fourth question it will answer is, Where can 482 00:33:12.410 --> 00:33:16.790 we grow the most? Where can we grow the most? This is where you will start 483 00:33:16.790 --> 00:33:20.370 answering the question. Well, should we go from one product to multi product? 484 00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:25.190 Should we go from sales direct sales to having channels? Should we go from just 485 00:33:25.190 --> 00:33:28.380 being in North America to be in the media so you can start figure out? What 486 00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:32.740 do you grow the most? So answering the who, the what the when the where 487 00:33:32.740 --> 00:33:36.750 question like, who should be market, What do you need to operate effectively 488 00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:41.360 When can we scale our business? And where can we grow the most literally is 489 00:33:41.360 --> 00:33:45.130 gonna be the TCS for the for the book and that's really how the gold market 490 00:33:45.130 --> 00:33:49.510 maturity, curve and everything that we will put together in it and and try to 491 00:33:49.510 --> 00:33:53.150 hopefully make complex simple for a lot of people who are thinking about go to 492 00:33:53.150 --> 00:33:57.440 market. Yeah, I love the questions, and it makes me think that there are more 493 00:33:57.450 --> 00:34:00.570 overarching questions, that kind of guide, the whole conversation around 494 00:34:00.570 --> 00:34:04.550 the book. And I imagine that last question in particular is, is powerful 495 00:34:04.550 --> 00:34:08.610 because a team might decide that instead of spending a lot of time and 496 00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:11.969 effort going after new accounts, just expanding our existing accounts and 497 00:34:11.969 --> 00:34:16.070 that becomes a kind of a customer service account management thing is 498 00:34:16.070 --> 00:34:20.590 actually the best place to grow revenue right now. Not that you stop account 499 00:34:20.590 --> 00:34:23.030 acquisition. You keep going. But you're not going to launch a whole new 500 00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:28.810 campaign around it right now, so that's very interesting, man. You tease me and 501 00:34:28.810 --> 00:34:31.409 I'm like, Man, when's this book to come out? And I'm sure the audience is 502 00:34:31.409 --> 00:34:34.250 thinking now, like Yes, Andrew, when's this book could have come out? When can 503 00:34:34.250 --> 00:34:39.170 we expect a preorder or get a get a copy of this thing? Yeah, well, it will 504 00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:43.469 come out in August. Um, I don't know when we can actually put a pre or link 505 00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:47.330 and stuff like that, but you'll be one of the first people do not fantastic. 506 00:34:47.330 --> 00:34:50.350 Well, when it comes out, I will certainly be posting it to LinkedIn and 507 00:34:50.350 --> 00:34:55.350 probably mentioning it in this show. Sandra, thank you so much for joining 508 00:34:55.350 --> 00:34:59.490 us today. I've learned a ton, and I'm gonna be thinking a lot about the role 509 00:34:59.490 --> 00:35:02.420 of the CEO. Now would probably be having lots of conversations with James 510 00:35:02.420 --> 00:35:06.940 about to be fun. That's awesome. Thank you so much for talking about the book 511 00:35:06.950 --> 00:35:10.350 when it comes out. Is there a place they can subscribe to or connect with 512 00:35:10.350 --> 00:35:15.350 you in order to find out when it comes? Well, just if people want to connect 513 00:35:15.350 --> 00:35:18.750 down and just drop me a Lincoln message, I haven't really put on a website or 514 00:35:18.750 --> 00:35:21.920 webpage yet on it. This is literally the first conversation of all 515 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.550 conversations I'm having on it since I've been, like, heads down on it. So 516 00:35:26.550 --> 00:35:29.710 just hit me up on LinkedIn, connect with me and just let me know. So I'll 517 00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:33.830 add you to the list. And then, uh, then I think in April May I think we'll 518 00:35:33.830 --> 00:35:38.920 start start sharing, sharing more more on it. But I'm really excited because 519 00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:43.840 again, it's a It's another strategy book that is misunderstood and through 520 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:47.810 frameworks and through actual practical stories of CEOs and others who are 521 00:35:47.810 --> 00:35:51.970 actually doing it. Hopefully, we can distill it down and makes complex, 522 00:35:51.980 --> 00:35:57.760 simple, fantastic again. Thank you for joining me on the show today. Thank you. 523 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:03.540 At Sweet Fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the 524 00:36:03.540 --> 00:36:08.120 Internet for every job, function and industry on the planet. For the B two B 525 00:36:08.120 --> 00:36:12.160 marketing industry, this show is how we're executing on that mission. If you 526 00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:15.710 know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. 527 00:36:15.720 --> 00:36:19.200 Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, 528 00:36:19.210 --> 00:36:25.690 but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8. Just shoot me. Their name may be a link 529 00:36:25.690 --> 00:36:29.660 to their LinkedIn profile, and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get 530 00:36:29.660 --> 00:36:31.360 them on the show. Thanks a lot