Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth.
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Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block,
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and today we are thrilled to have
Kyle Williams joining us. He is the
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founder of brick stack. Kyle,
welcome in. Hey, thanks for having
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me on, Bingie. Great to
be here. It is great to have
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you here and our listeners are probably
wondering why did Benjie invite a brick stacker
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onto a marketing podcast? So,
for those that might be new to you,
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kyle, tell us a little bit
about the problem that brick stack is
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seeking to solve and then maybe what
led you to that. Yeah, for
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those listening and not seeing us,
I'm not covered in concrete dust or anything.
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It's not physical bricks, metaphorical ones, and the problem that we're solving
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is what I call shadow ICP which
is really the difference between what your ideal
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customer profile deck looks like and what's
in everyone else's heads. And typically it's
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very different, and it might be
different based on who you're talking to,
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if it's sales or SDRs or CS
or marketing or product or someone else.
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And so a lot of what we
do is help to understand what is your
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shadow ICP and then how do we
go find and map your what we would
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now call your true ICP to the
mark? Yeah, man, that is
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a big task, so thank you
for taking it on. Yeah, let's
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start here. So what a commonly
held belief that you think many have on
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how a's or SDRs do their job
that you may be passionately disagree with,
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Kyle? Yeah, it starts with
this debate on relevance versus personalization, which
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is really prominent on Linkedin. I
don't think it's a true, true debate,
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but it really comes down to how
do you customize what you say?
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Are you going to look for something
like where they went to school, which
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is personalization, or you going to
look for something about their business mechanics,
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which is more relevance? And I
think the actual problem with the debate itself,
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as true or not as it might
be as a debate, is that
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it is a messaging question and I
think if you're asking should I be focused
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on relevance versus personalization at the Messaging
Stage, then you've already lost. And
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what I mean by that is,
if you take a step back, the
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three components of any great good of
market is targeting and going after the right
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folks the right time, messaging or
recommunicating in a way that resonates and scale.
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Can I do this enough to hit
by CACTIL L TV ratio right?
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And the problem is a lot of
the industry built for that last step,
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and that last step is important right, for not hitting our metrics and are
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unit economics, then we don't have
a business. But if we start with
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scale, then we have a lot
of assumptions built in which which that is
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what this question of relevance versus personalization
asks, which is I must say something
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to this person. And if I
must say something to this person, should
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I be personalized or should I be
relevant? And and the reason personalization wins,
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even though what never wins on a
Linkedin poll, is because it's the
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most consistent to find. Yeah,
and the most of separate in answer.
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Yes, right, I know where
to go to look for where you went
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to school and I know not everybody
went to the same school, so I
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will be saying something roughly different to
everyone and I will find it really quickly.
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But really we should say relevance is
something we look for in targeting,
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and then I can just talk about
it. Right, I can just show
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up and say, hey, your
shoes are worn out, you should get
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new shoes, and instead of saying, like, you went to school and
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do you want to talk about shoes? And you wore shoes in school and
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yes, it is right, of
the war out of it, make it
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work. Yeah, exactly. I
thank you for walking that out for a
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second. Okay, as marketing leaders, I think we feel attention and we
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what we would say is that,
and this is how you explain to me.
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I think this is so true.
Right, what we say the product
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does verse what the product actually does. Those are things that we're kind of
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walking through and working through. How
do we actually go about addressing that in
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the market, though, and the
way that we think about it? Sometimes
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it is like the twenty percent best
of our strs, right, they have
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these spidy senses of sort and they're
carrying the weight because they know what to
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do, how to do it,
why they're doing it. But many times
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that's like what we leave it up
to, as long as they can do
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it a great you've seen this issue
play itself out. Talk US through how
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you've seen this issue and how it's
kind of come to your attention. Yeah,
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it's I sometimes say I'd started brick
stack because I was constantly running into
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brick walls, and so the way
I came to this was just seeking it
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over and over and over again,
which is it's not an explicit thing.
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Like no one sits down and says
we're not going to figure out our ideals
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ideal customer profile, we're just outsource
it to twenty folks that we just hired
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out of school. Like no one
sits down and does that intentionally. I
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think the reason that we see that
is twofold one is that it's hard sometimes
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for us to see the nuance of
what our ideal customer profile really looks like.
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So it's hard to really tease out. You know, we build a
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product or we launch a new product
line or we have a hypothesis for maybe
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a new set of customers to go
do expansion, and we take that to
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market and the first batch of customers
come in and sometimes it's hard to parse
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out what is the thing that brought
them in in the first place. And
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if you go enrich them, they're
all be to be SASSINS. We go
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ah Ho, it's be to be
Sass but it's actually be to be Sass
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that came to you then. So
I think that's that's a big part of
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the problem is we don't necessarily know
what that true definition looks like, or
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it's hard for us to piece that
out. I think two is it's comes
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down to who has the feedback loops
right. So your sales team as a
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certain set of feedback loops that's different
from your product team, different from your
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marketing team, different from your CS
teams working with the customers, and so,
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using sales as the example, right
there talking to these folks and they
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get to hear in the moment what
that nuanced pain looks like or that nuance
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situation that caused them to take the
call in the first place. And then,
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if they stack enough of those,
well you what we describe as a
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spighty sense is their ability to predict
how a call will go before it happens,
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because they can do a bunch of
quick research and say, AH,
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I think they're in this scenario and
this is how we're going to go and
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I'm going to ask the six questions
instead of the twelve questions because I just
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have a sense of where it's going
to go. But that is really hard
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to take out of that person's head
and put it back into the core definition.
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We do lose the relay race in
the baton pass and that's very much
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true inside of organizations. Is these
handoffs. When you have those conversations where
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you're teasing out where your say,
shadow ICP is, and you get those
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disconnects between, you know, the
sales saying the website doesn't match. Those
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are things that one they affect your
results right because the handoff that happens between,
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say, marketing and sales, if
there's confusion about the conversation we just
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had and what our marketing materials say, that's going to add friction to our
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ability to close. If the customer
is sold and they go to CS and
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see us has a different understanding of
what's customers trying to accomplish and the customer
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has a different understanding of what they're
trying to accomplish versus what the product can
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actually do, then now we have
friction in time to value, which has
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massive implications on that revenue retention and
our ability word of mouth and other other
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factors. I think even sometimes more
hidden and insidious is that it breaks the
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feedback loops because if I'm as marketing, spending a lot of money to point
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at the market in a certain way, but our true ICP is maybe more
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special, scific and different. Then
I'm getting feedback that is actually not useful
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and and may not know it,
and so I might spend money in a
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different way or we might end up
building the wrong product for the wrong team,
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because suddenly, you know, they're
asking for like we need the debts.
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We did integration. It's the most
important thing that we could possibly have,
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and then we build it and it's
a big resounding thud. I think
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everyone's had that experience of the huge
launch that no one cared about, and
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it's usually because we got the wrong
feedback loop, because we weren't pointed correctly
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in the first place. Yeah,
it's like you're in a noisy room right,
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you got gotta pick out what noise
actually matters and we don't want to
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overcomplicate it by your own doing.
That's exactly it's exactly right. Like we
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it's kind of like if we were
a rowing team and everybody's looking at different
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parts on the horizon. We might
get there, but we're going to burn
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fifty or a hundred percent more calories
just fighting each other to keep the ship
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straight. So it's almost like saying, okay, Great, you have some
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rock stars in your organizations, people
that know what to do, but how
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do we translate that to others?
Like how do we almost not templatize,
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but how do we make sure that
we're able to hit this type of mark
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consistently? Right, yeah, I
think one is you have to watch for.
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Is that really what this is,
because sometimes you get strong opinions that
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may or may not hold up to
scrutiny. Right, so it might be
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we need to find every time CEO
talks about our company and their earnings,
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call and the answer that is yes, like, if that happens, we
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should have and we talk to them, but it never happens. It's what
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I called like this high, high
value, low frequency signal, and those
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are those are great when they happen, but they're usually your your SHADOWYCP is
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one step outside of that. What
it means is something internally has happened.
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That means we see an external signal
for that, and so one understanding.
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Are the mental models that are built
out actually predictive, and do they show
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up in the market? So I
think that's that's part of the challenge.
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I think the other part of the
challenge is, you know, see this
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with like product markers will sit down
with a really good a really good Sdrd,
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interview them and str the a's this
is a campaign we should run,
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or that they are speaking the language
of the Vendor Building Block. So they're
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like it's really be to be Sass
with a hundred of fivezero employees, the
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revenue between x and Y and their
series a to IPO, and we're just
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using someone else's language, but we're
not using the language of what's in our
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heads. And so that's one trick. When trap to watch out for is
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is the expert you're talking to.
They have great mental models, but they're
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trying to switch into a context that
they're not used to talking. They're talking
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to customers, they're talking one to
one, and so I want them to
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stay in a one to one mindset. So instead of tell me all the
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patterns, it's tell me about the
last perfect call that you had, or
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tell me what you would do if
you're about to go into a call with
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these ten specific prospects and just show
me exactly what you would do. And
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when you do that thing, stop
and tell me why so if you scroll
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down the page in their website,
you scroll back up. Well, you
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were looking for something and what did
you not see and what does that tell
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you? And you want to gather
all of those patterns because those are the
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real things that lead to how they
predict what's going to happen and who really
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is a good fit for your company. And want to go through an example
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of that in a minute here.
But I want to go back to something
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you said before. So said high
value, low frequency. I want you
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to dig into that a bit more
and maybe give us an example or some
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other like. Okay, outside of
it being mentioned by like a CEO,
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what are some of those other actions
that are high value low frequency? Yeah,
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it's one of the most common.
Is The you know, like someone,
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our customer, switch jobs and went
to a new company. That's high
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value, it's low frequency. Now
you should absolutely you should talk to a
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company like user gyms instead up a
flow for that and just automated, and
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you should absolutely got reach out to
your current customers who went to a new
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company. Is there to speak your
language and the language of a prospect.
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They're perfect for that. But it's
hard to build your whole business around that
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specificing on ocean of thats exactly exactly. So that's probably one of the most
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classic high value low frequency, but
it's it is not really specific to a
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specific company. The mentioning our product
is another one that comes up a lot.
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That's what you want to watch out
for and what you want to say
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is really the scenario of things that
happen. So what I mean by that
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is you're really this knowledge transfer we're
trying to do is not like learning music.
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Like in music there are steps,
right. So I can say,
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Benji, here's what an a and
at a minor looks like, and then
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I can say here's what chords are
in scales, and then if you play
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these chords in this order, you
will get the song. And if I
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taught you that in the eighteen hundreds
and I taught it to you today,
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the same chords give you the same
sound. Yeah, it's more good to
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market. Is More like firefighting,
right. You just gotta rush in and
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you have to adapt to an ever
changing situation. And so when firefighters train
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it's not like violinist where you're like
play this scale a thousand times and when
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you hit tenzero hours, like no
glad we'd close. Then you'll be a
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master gratulations. You've done it exactly
right. Well, firefighters do is they
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have a building and they put you
in that building and they set it on
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fire a hundred times a week so
that you're learning from a real experience.
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And so instead of this is chemistry
and here's how the atoms interact, because
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when you're thrown into a fire you
don't have time to count atoms and molecules.
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You just have to learn and build
instinct for it. And so what
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we're trying to do with the scenarios, and the reason I say tell me
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about your great customer or tell me
how you would prefer real call, is
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that's the controlled burn scenario. I
want a real life thing that has all
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the nuance of the real world,
not the thing that goes in my deck
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that says bb Sass a hundred to
five hundred employs. Hey, everybody,
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Olivia here as a member of the
sweet fish sales team. I wanted to
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take a second and share something that
makes us insanely more efficient. Our team
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uses lead Iq. So for those
of you who are in sales or sales
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ups, let me give you some
context. You know how long gathering contact
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data can take so long, and
with lead Iq, what once took us
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four hours to do now takes us
just one. That is seventy five percent
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more efficient. We are so much
quicker withoutbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is
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so much easier than before. I
suggest you guys check it out as well.
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You can find them at lead iqcom. That's La d iqcom already.
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Let's jump back into the show.
And so what we're trying to do with
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the scenarios, and the reason I
say tell me about your great customer or
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tell me how you would prefer real
call, is that's the controlled burn scenario.
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I want a real life thing that
has all the nuance of the real
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world, not the thing that goes
in my deck that says bb Sass,
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a hundred to five hundred employees.
Sow. We can impact there. But
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I want to go to that second
one and I want to have us keep
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this conversation movie. So when you
think of key driving factors behind so many
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organizations, maybe not have having a
formalized process. You started to dig into
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that right like you want to know
the rep that they they scroll down,
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they scroll back up, like that
type of in game if I can use
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that in game scenario. So what
do you think are the key reasons why
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people don't have that? Like they
went for whatever reason, they know that
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their reps are doing that but they
don't have a formalized way of tracking it,
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of a system in place. Coyle. Yeah, I think part of
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it is if you've ever done sales, it's the five wise right if you
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know. So the prospect says like
we don't want that, it's too much,
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shirts, too expensive. You should
ask why five times to understand what
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they're really saying. What they might
really be saying as we have an allocated
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budget, but this is a massive
problem and so we're bandating it and the
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bandaid cost us a lot of problem, a lot of money, and if
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I said I could take that,
you don't have to use the Bandaid,
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then suddenly you would have budget,
and the budget is not the real objection.
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It's very similar in these conversations where
the first answer is not at not
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often the final answer right. So
they might say something like, you know,
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I worked with a company where it
was B tob SASS and we're running
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out of BB SASS and how do
we go find more B Tob Sass companies
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and you sit down with everybody and
they'll say the same thing on the first
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blush. Who Do you go after? What? How do you prioritize?
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We look at B Tob Sass,
would to be SASBB Sass, and then
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you actually look at what they do, and what they did is they sold
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a product. This is a very
large billion plus valuation company that helps sales
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teams with, you know, different
parts of their job. And the actual
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answer was, do they have a
sales workflow? And had nothing to do
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with B Tob Sass. It was
do they have, you know, sort
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of the flow of what we normally
think of a prospecting motion, to a
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deal flow motion, to a close
motion? And if they did, then
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their product was really good fit.
And it just so happens that ninety nine
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percent of b tob SASS companies have
that tcular sales flow motion. Yeah,
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but if you look at insurance companies, look, twenty percent of them have
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that right. They have a sales
operations person, Sills enablement person and they
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have sort of they might not be
called inside and outside sales, they might
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be called like brokers or something like
that, but they're having the same type
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of conversations and they have the same
workflow. Now your deal friction might be
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a little bit higher the regulated of
the other factors to consider, but the
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cores they'll have the conversation because they
have the same motion. And so that
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was the actual why was I'm looking
for. Do they have a sales motion
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not? Are They B Tob Sass? So I think that's a reason it's
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really hard to do. That is
when we don't recognize when someone is speaking
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out of their own context. We
need to put them at ease and start
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the conversation with don't worry about how
we scale this, don't worry about how
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we find it a million times.
Just talk about your actual experience. I
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think that's the first thing. And
then the second thing is when they give
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you the answer, just keep asking
why until you get to the abstract,
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fuzzy thing where there's a lot of
nuance and they say, well, I
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do this unless this is true,
and then, if that's true, that
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I do this, and that's when
you're getting to the real mental model,
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and that's the thing that's usually more
predictive. Okay, so walk me through
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some of that. Like you sit
down with str and you're trying to map
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their mental model. Like okay,
sweet, you keep asking them why,
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but like what is that conversation actually
looking like? What are you are you
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having them record a video? Are
you having them how are you starting to
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track some of this stuff? Like
let's get hyper practical here for the next
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few minutes so that someone that's listening
going okay, I want to take from
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this conversation what Kyle saying and want
to start to implement it, they would
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be able to walk away with some
steps as to what to do. Yeah,
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so I think there's two questions you're
trying to answer, which is,
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one, is this predictive, and
too, can I find it? And
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then the process to do that is
sort of this back and forth between what
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is in the humans head and what
can we get from the data, and
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then how do we get those two
to a lines who sort of are going
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to bounce between these two states?
So the first thing we want to do
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is say, is this predictive?
So we want to ask one just qualitatively,
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how they would prep and what that
would tell them, and we're looking
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for confidence in Ah, I'm not
going to ask this question anymore because I
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saw that on their careers page,
they don't have anything related to work from
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home, which tells me that they're
probably bringing people back into the office,
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which means I'm not even going to
talk about that whole other section of our
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product. Right, and they just
know. Right. So we're looking for
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that confidence. So we're looking for
the predictive nature of what they say and
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ideally we can take a thin slice
of whatever they come up with. Right,
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so I might take munch a cruise
pages that do and don't talk about
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work from home, and I map
that. I can sure say close,
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lot, one, close loss,
and if I see there's a pattern there,
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then I got we're onto something and
we may not see that. And
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so I might want to say is, well, the reason they said that
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was because they were talking about whether
work from home was predictive of some part
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of your product. And so I
want to look at other factors that might
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be related to work from home.
So I look for a just generally on
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your close one, verse, close, close lost, what terms show up,
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versus don't, and then say,
all right, maybe those work from
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home just happened. Those were a
high value, low frequency. But the
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essence of the mental model was there
are things that companies that care about this
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talk about in a certain way.
The things that companies that don't don't talk
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about in that way. And so
now I'm flipping from the humans mental model,
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which was a specific set of things
they look for to match a fuzzy
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mental model. Specifically, do they
talk about work from work from home,
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which the Fuzzy Mental Model? Do
they care about remote now I'm going to
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go from the machine to say what
does the machine see on good versus bad,
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and then work with the human to
say which of these also fit that
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mental model. And if we do
that loop a few times, then we
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start to end up with something that
both is predictive and I can find it.
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And that's the loop I'll take you
on a couple different times. Typically
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go to the machine side for a
second, because I'm not sure I fully
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like we spend a lot of time
on the human side, but like so
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then what's the machine side in detail? Yeah, so part of this is
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like with brick stack. I've built
technology and infrastructure to do some of this
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stuff right. So like look at
and analyze like a company site, similar
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to how an AE ORN SDR might
navigate to a specific section and extract what's
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being said there. Yes, of
mashup like similarities there. I think if
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you're not doing that, you're just
using the tools that you have available to
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you. I do the exercise of
I want to be able to say,
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if I pull them out of the
hat, how many of them fit your
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mental model? Right. So typically, if you say BBB Sass, employee
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sighs, these are sort of the
the metro, the typical go to.
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Those are attributes we have access to. Typically, if I were to just
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use those and put them in front
of an expert and pull ten out of
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the hat, they're going to say
yes to two. And so my goal,
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if I'm using these blunt attributes,
is I want to make sure they
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saying yes to six and then and
then ideal state is like eight or nine
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or ten. And so the way
I might do that is I might get
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more specific or I m might look
at the tags that don't show up as
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much and say, all right,
what does that tell us? Or you
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can you can start to use combinations
of things like I think I see a
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lot of people do, like Oh, founding date to plus type of industry
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is going to tell us about the
nature of the type of culture that they
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have to build right. So we'll
start with companies found in the last two
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years and that's how we'll niche down. And that might be close enough and
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may not exactly directly tell you that
they care about that type of culture.
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But coup they found in the last
two years just had to because they were
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found in the last two years.
So I would start to think through the
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hops from the day to you have
available that are going to allow me to
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do that, pull them out of
the hat test where I can say here's
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ten. He told me too.
Then I mapped all the coupies found the
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last two years. I give you
ten and it was six. All right,
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now we're Gett we're in a world
where you don't have to ask the
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relevance versus personalization question as much because
we can start to make some strong assertions
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going in. HMM. Okay,
so I'm a leader listening to this podcast
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and like man cow's got it going
on. He knows what he's talking about.
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I'm trying to figure out how I
would apply this in my organization.
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What would you tell me to do
as a starting place? What would be
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my is it just sitting down with
your str getting that mental model, start
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mapping it. What am I doing? Maybe steps beyond that, Kyle.
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Yeah, so I would one I
would ask myself the question do I have
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a realized SEP VERSUS SHADOW ICP problem? And that will be evidence in things
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like does your best day? Say
I don't like the website, and what
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they're generally saying is I had a
very great conversation with someone and I explained
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perfectly to them what we do and
then they go to the website and they
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get confused or to see us say
the same challenge right, like our customers
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love us, but our new customers
are totally confused about what they bought.
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And so you want to look for
these moments where you know, we talked
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about in the prop this, that
you lose the relay race in the baton
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pass, and so look at those
handoff moments and look for the disconnects,
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and the bigger those disconnects, the
more likely you are that you have shadow
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YCP. So first is like acknowledging
that we have the problem. Second is
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then having those conversations across those groups. So sort of this exercise we described.
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If like, what does the human
know? What can the machine show
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us? And the more we can
improve both of those the better and then
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get them to line up. And
then I would do some some testing to
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confirm, because what we want to
do is move from a world where often
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in marketing we get caught in this
world of needing to make all chips on
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black bets, or it's like we
need to hit the numbers, we need
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to do this bet, and so
we're going to run this campaign and if
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it works, we're awesome, but
if it fails, we have no idea.
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Wanders across the yessing yes, and
so you want to get into a
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world where fail your mode is learning
mode. So that's when I say back
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test. What we're really doing is
we're saying the shape of our ICP feels
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like this hypothesis that we now have, and so we're going to run an
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experiment where we're only going to focus
on company it. So we're going to
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say we think companies found in the
last two years match this hypothesis. Those
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are the ones are going to have
the culture that we care about, okay,
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and so we're going to use messaging
specific to the culture that we care
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about and we're going to send that
out and if, if we get the
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answer back we should be able to
learn from it and reinforce the core mental
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models. So in that case I
probably could have come up with a better
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in the moment, example, than
when a company was founded. But I
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would want to make sure that the
experiments I run give me answers about my
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mental model, not just whether I
hit a certain metric. MMM, I
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like this. I think there's so
much that we can take away in and
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even do on our own. Obviously
there's stuff that you're you're a problem you're
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specifically also trying to solve. Kyle, and I do want to give you
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a chance here at the end to
talk a little bit about brickstack and the
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work you're doing, tell us a
little bit more about the company and then
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also ways that we can stay connected
to you. Maybe that's Linkedin or whatever.
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You would want people to where you
would want people to reach out?
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Absolutely. Yeah, so founded brickstack
as a result of my work doing a
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lot of go to market set up. So I was early Google cloud on
398
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the sales team. So I'm sort
of this like sales leader that learned how
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to code along the way from Google
engineers and then built a business unit.
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Google's largest partner. DID START UPS. You did a sequoia start up as
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one of the earliest business hires.
Both the centralized outbound function sort of got
402
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us to the the series B fifty
million and funding, you know, stage,
403
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and then spent four and a half
years as cofounder of a firm where
404
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we helped companies like stripe and sigment
and drift in these other companies making the
405
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switch from inbound to outbound do more
of this outbound data driven outbound motion.
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And the core challenge is the one
we talked about today, which is they
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had this idea in their heads of
what their market looked like, but it
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didn't match their building to manifest that
in how they targeted. And then the
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00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.200
targeting, as we talked about,
leads directly into the messaging, right.
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00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:40.319
So if we have a custom building
block for the targeting, we can use
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00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.200
that building block for the messaging,
right. So one example of that is
412
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.559
a work with company drift. This
is you know, while back, and
413
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.359
you know the challenge was. You
know, you could imagine a lot of
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00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.640
the same bb Sass type conversation,
but what the A he's really we're doing
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00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.759
was they would go to the site
and they would look at all the calls
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00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.680
to action, all the buttons and
then Click on those. That most likely
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00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:00.960
led to something where you had to
fill in the form to talk to sales,
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00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.119
because their whole message was, and
for those who don't know drift this
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00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.839
time was just on site chat.
So the whole thing was no forms,
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00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:08.799
just talked to the team. Right, don't put friction in your process.
421
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.640
You have the storefront, somebody walks
in, you encounters will say hi,
422
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.799
exactly yes, and so that pattern
showed up with every every top aight we
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00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.200
talked to, was that they would
go to the site or the form,
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00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:22.640
sort of look at that form and
you know, then you could say something
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00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.279
like Hey, I'm on your side, I want to talk to you,
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00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.000
but now I have to wait.
And so I built a boat that would
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00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:32.200
go and do that same analysis,
sort of stack up. Okay, here's
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00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:33.920
all the calls to action, here's
how it scores in terms of how much
429
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.400
they're driving to sales. People then
go to the form, analyze the form,
430
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.519
how many fields we have to fill
out, take a screen shot and
431
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:41.640
then it could convert all of that
in the messaging, right, because the
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00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.319
number of fields that I ask is
going to change. How I talked to
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00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:48.960
you the calls to action that I
have. If it's contact US versus contact
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00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.720
sales versus get a demo versus free
trail, and then it's actually a form.
435
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.759
You sort of this like false plg
on. I'm going to change how
436
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.319
I talk to you. And so
the target. It was a targeting motion,
437
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.359
right, which it counts. Actually
have the problem of a form that
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00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.240
keeps you from being able to have
a conversation, but it also was the
439
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.640
way that I would want to talk
to you. So sort of like built
440
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:14.400
in relevance because of this motion.
And that's really the idea behind brickstack is
441
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.920
everyone has that nuance, that insight, and it's being expressed with a building
442
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.039
block that everyone else is buying off
the shelf, and we hope you go
443
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.000
figure out what your own custom building
block is. Well, thank you for
444
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:27.160
being on the show. How do
we connect with you? Is it Linkedin?
445
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:30.799
What are we we need to make
sure people know what to do as
446
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.920
far as that goes. Yeah,
so may be up on Linkedin. Kyle
447
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.680
Williams brick stack and brick stack is
brickstackcom. So you know, feel free
448
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.720
to reach out anytime. Love it, man. Thank you for dropping your
449
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.359
wisdom here on B tob growth today. It was fantastic to get to chat
450
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.599
with you, and I do think
you mentioned it earlier, but that baton
451
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:53.039
handoff it there is so much that's
lost there if we do that wrong,
452
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.799
and so coming out of this conversation
that is a big part of what I'm
453
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:02.079
taking away, as this whole process
helps us sure that up so that in
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00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:07.359
the long run we're not losing where
we in in areas where it's so easy
455
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.400
to lose. That beaton handoff is
in securing that is is vital. So
456
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.680
thanks, Kyle, for being here
today and for those that are listening,
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00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.680
if you've yet to connect with me, I would love to connect with you
458
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:22.839
on Linkedin. Always talk about marketing, sales and life over on Linkedin.
459
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.039
Just Search Benjie block if you want
to leave a rating or review for this
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00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:30.480
show. We'd love for you to
do that and subscribe on your favorite podcast
461
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.640
platform. Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another
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00:28:33.759 -->
episode.