June 30, 2020

#Sales 6: Hope is Killing Your Business w/ Kevin Dorsey

Hope is dumb. 

Sure, we talk a lot as humans about hope.

We hope things will work out. We hope we’ll get that promotion. We hope that our team will win.

We hope we’ll land that prospect. 

But as Kevin Dorsey likes to say, “Hope has killed more dreams than it has ever created.” 

In this episode, Co-Host Patrick Downs interviews Kevin Dorsey, VP of Inside Sales at PatientPop to find out why hope is hurting your team far more than it could ever help them.

Kevin covered:

  • The danger of placing too much of your strategy in hope
  • Why you need to stop focusing on selling the future
  • How to unsell a prospect’s current solution

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to the B2B Growth Show on Apple Podcasts, on our website, or on Spotify.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:11.269 If something's too novel, it actually scares people away. So novelty is what 2 00:00:11.349 --> 00:00:15.509 attracts attention to want to learn more about. If the process is so different, 3 00:00:15.949 --> 00:00:20.309 if it's so new, it's so groundbreaking and it's so disruptive, actually 4 00:00:20.429 --> 00:00:26.539 scares people away. Welcome to the BB grous show. I'm your cohost forever 5 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:31.059 Patrick downs, the sales name thement trenor at Panda Doc, will be talking 6 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:34.899 about being on the other side of the sales table. Today I'm here with 7 00:00:34.939 --> 00:00:39.850 Kevin Dorsey, VP of sales at patient pop and inside sales, top ten 8 00:00:39.969 --> 00:00:43.250 sales leader. Why do you think they made that decision, though, as 9 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:46.090 far as like, Hey, I think we're going to go back soon, 10 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:49.130 was there anything there base in that off of do you think those just wishful 11 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:53.960 thinking? I mean the common, you know, human fallacy, hope. 12 00:00:54.799 --> 00:01:00.719 We hope for things and because we hope for things, it changes our decisionmaking 13 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:03.549 right, like you know, sometimes I wish I could be in some of 14 00:01:03.590 --> 00:01:10.349 these rooms to listen to the conversations right because there's no logical reason. There's 15 00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:14.870 zero logical reason. Hey, this disease is spreading its rittened faster than anything 16 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:19.340 we've really dealt with before. We have no vaccine or treatment for it. 17 00:01:19.859 --> 00:01:21.620 What do you guys think? You think this is going to be done in 18 00:01:21.700 --> 00:01:26.099 two months? Yeah, yeah, I think. I hope so oh so 19 00:01:26.219 --> 00:01:29.859 and make decisions off of hope. We do it all the time. We 20 00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:30.980 do it in our personal lives, we do it in sales, people do 21 00:01:32.099 --> 00:01:36.329 in business. It's actually comical to think about. I've never heard hope refer 22 00:01:36.409 --> 00:01:38.370 to as a Fallacie, but I'm going to take that, Kevin. I 23 00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:42.129 love that. So I talked about with my team's all the time. I 24 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:49.319 like hope has crushed more dreams than it's created, because hope actually cause you 25 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:53.719 to hold onto things that were dead long ago. Now. You always hear 26 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:59.239 about the stories where hope turned into something. You hear about those stories. 27 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:02.590 You don't hear about the ones that ran themselves into the ground or ran company 28 00:02:02.629 --> 00:02:06.909 in the ground or ran a relationship into the ground just because they were hoping. 29 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:10.469 Right. How many deals in people's pipelines are literally there because of hope? 30 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:14.310 You know I'm saying right. Like we call the hope zone the friend 31 00:02:14.310 --> 00:02:16.180 zone in sales, like if you're just hoping, the steel closes, like 32 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:20.139 you're in the friend zone right now, like you're not getting any you need 33 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.979 to move it out of the hope zone right. Yeah, but hope, 34 00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:25.500 man, it messes with people more than it actually helps them. It's funny 35 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:29.860 that you mentioned that, because our topics today is about being on the other 36 00:02:29.979 --> 00:02:32.650 side of the sales table, so to speak, and often times when I'm 37 00:02:32.650 --> 00:02:36.889 being prospected, I can kind of feel the hope, like I can see 38 00:02:36.930 --> 00:02:38.689 the sales up wants to ask me something, but they're so afraid of my 39 00:02:38.810 --> 00:02:43.289 answer that they want to hold under the hope of this going forward that they 40 00:02:43.289 --> 00:02:46.039 don't ask it. I do you experience that as well? Oh, absolutely, 41 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:50.400 like, I've talked about this before too. Is Like I wish sale 42 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.960 if sales ups did know what it was like after the demo. It's like, 43 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.560 take a second, what do you do? We do after your demo? 44 00:02:59.030 --> 00:03:01.389 Like do you think we're skipping down the hallways like, Oh my God, 45 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:05.590 that was the greatest demo I've ever seen. I can't wait to buy 46 00:03:05.710 --> 00:03:09.310 this, like no, like I wonder how many pipelines I'm in right now, 47 00:03:10.030 --> 00:03:12.860 right, like that mine, you know. I'm saying, like my 48 00:03:12.939 --> 00:03:15.500 name is in the pipeline, like Oh yeah, like, dude, there's 49 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:17.659 a shot, there's a shot. You know, I haven't spoken to him 50 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:21.939 in two days or, sorry, in two months, but like there's there's 51 00:03:21.939 --> 00:03:23.900 a sham. I'm feeling good about this, like you know, it's just 52 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:28.969 hilarious to me. Like reps hope that the deal will close and they hope 53 00:03:29.210 --> 00:03:32.050 the buyer will say yes without them asking, or they hope an objection doesn't 54 00:03:32.050 --> 00:03:35.810 come up, or they hope they don't ask for a discount. Like it's 55 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:38.930 all hope. Man, if you took hope out and actually anticipated those things, 56 00:03:39.250 --> 00:03:43.520 it would change the sales process in a massive way. Yeah, and 57 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.879 and I don't know about you, but our internal buying process is kind of 58 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:50.680 loosely defined. So when I'm talking to a salesperson and they don't give me 59 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.560 anything as far as like what the next steps look like or what they're expecting 60 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.629 of me or what we're doing, even with this information, I don't really 61 00:03:58.669 --> 00:04:00.750 know what to do. So, like, after I hang up, I'm 62 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:01.509 just like, honestly, I don't know what to do with this information, 63 00:04:01.590 --> 00:04:05.629 as just like four day directions. I could go. There's like the two 64 00:04:05.710 --> 00:04:10.460 big ones is we don't know what to do with the information or we know 65 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:14.180 what to do, but it's going to require too much work. Like, 66 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:15.939 all right, I know what I have to do. I have to go 67 00:04:16.100 --> 00:04:19.819 run the numbers and see if I can justify this cost. I have to 68 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:24.410 go ask for approval, I have to go see if this is even going 69 00:04:25.129 --> 00:04:28.170 to work. I have to get internal by and I have to do it. 70 00:04:28.449 --> 00:04:30.610 And now sales people that are listening, I don't even know if it's 71 00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:31.930 going to be part of the live stuff or not. Right they go, 72 00:04:32.129 --> 00:04:36.170 oh well, why don't you involve us? This is always been also comical 73 00:04:36.290 --> 00:04:41.560 to me. Do you think you will be able to sell internally better than 74 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.680 me? Like, I don't care what salesperson you think you are out there. 75 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.399 Do you think you'll out sell me internally? Do you think you'll be 76 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.990 able to convince my ctfo better than I will? Do you think you'll be 77 00:04:53.110 --> 00:04:57.310 able to convince my managers better than me? Right, that's all stuff that 78 00:04:57.389 --> 00:04:59.709 I'm going to have to do. But in order to do that I have 79 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:01.750 to want what you have, and most ups never actually make us want it. 80 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:06.579 We convince ourselves after the demo that we want it. That's when most 81 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:11.980 of the buying starts to happen is afterwards we have to convince ourselves whether it's 82 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:15.139 worth it or not. That's true. I'd also like to say that I 83 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:16.980 feel like if a salesperson is holding my hand a little bit more, it 84 00:05:17.060 --> 00:05:19.019 would be easier. Like if, yeah, there was a part of that. 85 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:21.529 Hey, like, this is the next step, and typically in our 86 00:05:21.569 --> 00:05:25.250 sales process you would have to take it to your finance person. So, 87 00:05:25.370 --> 00:05:28.410 like, let's build a business case together and talk about if that's even comfortable 88 00:05:28.449 --> 00:05:30.329 for you. Yes, and that's all in the first the first bokeet. 89 00:05:30.370 --> 00:05:33.410 They absolutely can help write. If you know I'm going to have to get 90 00:05:33.449 --> 00:05:36.319 this approved by finance and you know I'm going to have to run numbers to 91 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.680 prove it's worth it, help me do that. If you know I'm going 92 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:44.720 to go have to meet with legal to talk compliance, give me the shit. 93 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.480 That already allows me to do that right. Like, Hey, normally 94 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.509 the next stepster, is a talk with your security team. Here's a five 95 00:05:50.550 --> 00:05:55.430 minute video that covers the top ten questions we get from every other security team. 96 00:05:55.670 --> 00:05:58.149 Have them watch that, have them read this, and we can hop 97 00:05:58.230 --> 00:06:01.470 on a call together to see if there's anything outstanding place they're do that. 98 00:06:01.870 --> 00:06:06.620 Please help me, help me help you. That's the thing is is. 99 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:10.899 I think sales are just so afraid that you're going to react poorly to the 100 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:14.420 idea of building a business case or trying to move the deal forward that they 101 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:15.740 forget to do all that stuff. They don't want to do it or makes 102 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:19.810 them uncomfortable. But the reality is if anyone serious about buying your product, 103 00:06:19.889 --> 00:06:23.730 they want that stuff. Like if I'm talking to somebody and it's like an 104 00:06:23.730 --> 00:06:27.009 ABM product and I think this thing is going to enable my team to do 105 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:30.290 outbound, I'm super hyped about it. But the only thing they're trying to 106 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:33.240 do is get some sort of like nebulous next step on the calendar that doesn't 107 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.120 have a real agenda. They don't even know where we're going. It's hard 108 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:40.839 for me to actually make the case well, and that's where it depends on 109 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:45.439 the buyer. And I may not represent all buyers, but building the business 110 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:49.430 case generally I don't enjoy having the sales rip involved because I don't trust them 111 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:54.949 to help me build a sit a business case, because what are they going 112 00:06:55.069 --> 00:06:57.790 to present? More often than not, when it comes to a business case, 113 00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:00.779 what's something that's going to help them or I like, look at all 114 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:05.300 this Roy, look at how great this is going to be. Like it's 115 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:10.180 always the same versus when I'm building a business case, and this is how 116 00:07:10.180 --> 00:07:14.579 I believe sales up should do it. I'm going worst case scenario. I'm 117 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:18.649 going, what does this look like if it takes nine months to adopt? 118 00:07:19.129 --> 00:07:23.370 What does this look like if only half the team uses it? What does 119 00:07:23.449 --> 00:07:26.769 this look like at the worst case scenario? Right, to see like if 120 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:31.160 I can justify that cost to finance, right, because finance never believes the 121 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:35.920 n x Roi like, and they should it right like that. That's not 122 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:39.800 the case. Right. So the business case. Normally with sales reps, 123 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.199 they look at they build it too optimistically, so then no one believes it 124 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.589 and either I have to go back and do more work with it or just 125 00:07:46.709 --> 00:07:50.750 gets tossed out and it actually hurts the case more than helps it. If 126 00:07:50.790 --> 00:07:55.069 a sales rep were to do that with you, build a business case based 127 00:07:55.110 --> 00:07:57.709 on worst case scenarios, would you trust that more or would you just not 128 00:07:57.829 --> 00:08:01.259 be open to it at all? I trust it more, absolutely right, 129 00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:03.699 like, and I actually I wrote an article a while back called how to 130 00:08:03.779 --> 00:08:07.899 sell to a VP of sales, and that's in there. It's like you 131 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:11.459 don't build our I off the best case scenario, you build our I off 132 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:15.250 the worst case scenario that you both can agree to. Write. Does the 133 00:08:15.370 --> 00:08:18.649 product justify itself even at the low end? Right? So, stop telling 134 00:08:18.689 --> 00:08:22.930 me I'm going to get x amount more pipeline or x amount more customers or 135 00:08:22.930 --> 00:08:26.410 x amount of more revenue. Like what's the bare minimum? Like, ad 136 00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:28.360 do you think this will help? You even see a two percent lift, 137 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.080 like even two percent, because it was not even going to be two percent, 138 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:33.519 like we don't need to talk, like we can just let this go 139 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.679 right. Well, yeah, two percent sounds fair. R. Let's run 140 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:39.720 those numbers real quick. What would a two percent look like? Here's what 141 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.029 this cut like. Now we're actually talking about things when it's always just a 142 00:08:43.110 --> 00:08:46.870 best case scenario. That's that's when you lose a little bit of credibility with 143 00:08:46.909 --> 00:08:50.990 a buyer. Working backward, it's from worst case is nicely. Something Nice 144 00:08:52.029 --> 00:08:54.509 to do when I was a rep was and say hey, like our average 145 00:08:54.549 --> 00:08:56.779 customer lispense two and a half years. In that two and a half your 146 00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:00.580 period. If you did go with us, could you see us helping you 147 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:05.220 close, even one more deal, just the very bottom, and then you 148 00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:09.659 kind of going up from there until they're like no, I think that's where 149 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.049 I feel we end. It's like, okay, so that's the actual business 150 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:15.929 case, like I can give you what our averages are, and then you 151 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:18.450 take what you feel and kind of go in the middle of that, right, 152 00:09:18.649 --> 00:09:22.009 because then at the end of the day, yeah, working up and 153 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:24.679 then just has to be worth it, because if I'm only going to get 154 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.639 one deal, it's not worth the pain of change. No, right. 155 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.679 So it's finding that middle ground of like, okay, we feel this is 156 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.279 totally fair but also worth it, because if it's too low, it's not 157 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.710 even worth the change. Right, especially as your orgs get bigger. I 158 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:43.830 don't know how big your or is there you have, I look at having 159 00:09:43.950 --> 00:09:48.710 over a hundred reps. the pain of change is big, like it's big, 160 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:52.940 and sometimes they'll do oh, the pain of staying the same. They 161 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:58.259 don't understand how much pain it's actually going to be to change. And then 162 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:03.740 really interesting book that I'm going through right now. It's called flip the script 163 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:07.139 by or in cloth. He wrote pitch anything, which is a great, 164 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:11.409 great book. Definitely read that if you're listening. But his, his new 165 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:15.690 one, is bringing something up that I hadn't heard presented before, was which 166 00:10:15.769 --> 00:10:22.080 is if something's too novel, it actually scares people away. So novelty is 167 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:24.759 what attracts attention to want to learn more about. If the process is so 168 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.440 different, if it's so new, it's so groundbreaking and it's so disruptive, 169 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.840 actually scares people away. Right like, if I'm looking at a fifty million 170 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.389 dollar Bogie on my head, am I going to go with something new or 171 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:41.389 something I know something? You know something, I know, even if it's 172 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:46.110 not as good as maybe this other thing over here, I know it and 173 00:10:46.230 --> 00:10:50.419 so I can predict it and so I can feel more safe with it. 174 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:54.259 Right. So that pain a change is bigger than most sellers understand. You 175 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:58.580 know how hard it is to get product adoption across a hundred people. That's 176 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:01.500 why people stick with the brand that they know. Right like, and I'm 177 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:05.289 our market, that's Docu sign. So often times, you know, they'll 178 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:09.450 just go with docusign because they know that everybody uses docusign. Or why somebody 179 00:11:09.529 --> 00:11:13.649 that even maybe wants to stay healthy might stop at McDonald's. I know what 180 00:11:13.690 --> 00:11:16.610 I'm getting at McDonald's, even if it's going to hurt me. I'd rather 181 00:11:16.730 --> 00:11:20.399 go with what I know right because people if you unless you can unsell them 182 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.840 now, it's really hard to sell the future, and that's something a lot 183 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:28.919 of reps skip over. All they focus on is selling the future. Everything's 184 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.110 going to be better, everything's going to be great, you're gonna love this, 185 00:11:33.269 --> 00:11:35.110 and it's all on the future. You have to unsell them on the 186 00:11:35.230 --> 00:11:39.870 now. You have to dig out the doubts of the now to make it 187 00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:43.470 worth the change for the future, and not a lot of repspend enough time 188 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:46.659 doing that. They do discovery to find out how will affect them in the 189 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:50.860 future. They're not doing discovery in a way that UN sells them on why 190 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:54.740 they do it, how they do it now. HMM, interesting because, 191 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:58.700 I mean, you look at something like gap selling, that's all about the 192 00:11:58.779 --> 00:12:03.090 future versus the now and it's all spent uncovering a gap. So we don't 193 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:05.769 really talk about a lot of how to unsell the current state. What are 194 00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:11.409 some tips you would give somebody listening on how to do that? So there's 195 00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:13.529 a few ways to do this right and you know, gap selling covers a 196 00:12:13.570 --> 00:12:16.559 little bit. It's actually funny. Like Kett and I've joked about this, 197 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.960 I was teaching gap selling long before the book got written. Like I have 198 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:26.440 presentations from like two thousand and sixteen, two thousand and seventeen of me talking 199 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:28.759 about gap questions and talking about selling the gaps. So it was really funny 200 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.950 how Keenan then also with the same path and like built something off it. 201 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:35.830 But you know, there's a lot of things he does talk about with the 202 00:12:35.909 --> 00:12:41.590 problem now and the impact now. Right, it's all about how you decide 203 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:46.419 to do it right. So if you ask me a gap question of like 204 00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:48.740 okay, so how you know? How are you doing x? So this 205 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:52.379 is a how to build a good gap question. How are you doing x? 206 00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:58.539 So that why doesn't happen right. So you pick something that you know 207 00:12:58.649 --> 00:13:01.970 your product does well. What's the negative of not doing it that way? 208 00:13:03.049 --> 00:13:05.809 You build it that way. So say we're doing something with hand to doc 209 00:13:05.889 --> 00:13:07.889 and like, I don't know, you know one of the things you guys 210 00:13:07.929 --> 00:13:09.929 do better than doc? You sign or not, but you say, okay, 211 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:13.159 so how are you better? How are you allowing, you know, 212 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.279 three people to sign the same doc humans at once so that deals don't get 213 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.000 delayed by having to send it around multiple times. Like how are you doing 214 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:28.309 that right now, if you know your main competitor or the status quote can't 215 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:31.750 do that? You're already now planting a little bit of seed of doubt, 216 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:37.669 of like well, I can't do that right. Oh. So. So, 217 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:41.350 yeah, people got extended around Multiple Times. I does that delay the 218 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:45.539 process at all? Yeah, for sure. Okay, that's a problem with 219 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:50.139 the now, right. So you can start to unsell them just through questions. 220 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.059 Another great one. I just talked about this with some people the other 221 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:56.210 day. Reps do this all the time as hilarious. Our tone, our 222 00:13:56.370 --> 00:14:01.809 tonality. Most reps when they're asking questions around discovery and like how people do 223 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:07.090 things. What are the filler words, most rescues? They say, Oh, 224 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:07.730 how do you do this? I say like this. What do they 225 00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:13.360 say back? A lot of like that, sort of the kind of it's 226 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.120 self committal words. So not that Filler word is the response back. They'll 227 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.799 say okay, good, okay, great, Gotcha, cool, perfect, 228 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.509 swesome, perfect, sweet. So this is very interesting with language. Okay, 229 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:33.190 subconsciously you're reaffirming that what I'm doing is good, great, perfect, 230 00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:37.899 awesome. HMM, okay, now this is how you flip this. You 231 00:14:39.019 --> 00:14:41.419 ask someone, so, how are you getting doc signed right now? And 232 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:45.980 they say they say Docu sign, it's a Docu sign. You Go, 233 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.940 Oh okay. What does that create? If you go a down tone with 234 00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:56.289 it, you go oh okay, what does that create in the prospect side? 235 00:14:56.009 --> 00:15:00.009 Curiosity around why? You just set it that way. Right, I 236 00:15:00.409 --> 00:15:05.250 will wait, like what's it's not constronged with right, like Oh, right, 237 00:15:05.450 --> 00:15:11.159 like using down tones intentionally create some massive amount of curiosity and doubt. 238 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:15.440 Now you don't go you don't sound like a Dick, you don't go all 239 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:20.039 the way down like Oh, you'se Docu Sign, Oh my God, yeah, 240 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:22.470 yeah, this is guy over here. You. You don't do that 241 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:28.190 right, but you're saying Oh okay, and then you go on to the 242 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:31.429 next question. You don't even address it, you just go on to the 243 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:37.179 next one. It's being intentional with make planting seeds of doubt that maybe the 244 00:15:37.220 --> 00:15:41.700 way I'm doing this isn't the best way to do it. That's interesting. 245 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:45.299 Yeah, I I was actually just talking to somebody from practice who's a company 246 00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:50.129 the places people with unconventional backgrounds into sales shops, and they were talking about 247 00:15:50.129 --> 00:15:52.250 that like when somebody on the phone would say, yeah, we're cool with 248 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:54.049 our current vendor and it's like, oh, how are you even doing that 249 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:58.610 right now? And it tends to continue the conversation because you're not saying that 250 00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:03.570 they suck at what they're doing. You're almost kind of concerned. Yeah, 251 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:07.879 so it's funny. We teacher. We love the concerned tone when they tell 252 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.200 like when we get into discovery, when someone tells us that they're already using 253 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.559 someone, we actually go the opposite. For a pattern break. We say 254 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.429 thank God, right, like all like like we're area using someone. Oh 255 00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:22.429 thank God, thank God you got something. You know many people I talk 256 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:26.230 to you that aren't any aren't doing anything. Like what are you using? 257 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:29.750 What's your favorite part about it? Turn the right path. Yeah, right, 258 00:16:30.110 --> 00:16:33.460 this is this is it's just to get the conversation going. It's just 259 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:36.179 to allow us to continue to talk, because most people, and they say 260 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:38.419 we're already using someone, it's just a deflection, right, like they're just 261 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:41.259 trying to get you off the phone. When I say like Oh, thank 262 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:45.620 God, first of all that catches people off guard. Okay, and then 263 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.409 too is like what's your favorite part? This is what's very interesting. With 264 00:16:48.490 --> 00:16:52.409 us as human beings, it's almost like we can't say the negative. So 265 00:16:52.490 --> 00:16:57.370 if you ask someone what their favorite part of something was, almost always, 266 00:16:57.409 --> 00:17:02.639 not always, almost always, they'll give you a good but they also give 267 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:07.440 you a bad. It's hilarious. Pay attention this. Moving forward, right. 268 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:08.960 So you someone went out to dinner. They're like, Oh man, 269 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.160 I had this amazing dinner on what was your favorite part? Like, what 270 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:15.829 was so good about it? God, like the state came out perfect, 271 00:17:15.990 --> 00:17:19.069 the atmosphere was amazing. Like it was expensive. I'M NOT gonna lie, 272 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:22.990 like it costs a lot, but it's almost like they can't help but share 273 00:17:23.789 --> 00:17:27.190 a little bit of negative. People will do this in the buying process. 274 00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:30.500 To write. Oh Yeah, yeah, we use such and such. You 275 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.779 know, we've been with them for a long time, you know, like 276 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:36.259 you know they don't make all the updates that they could, but, like, 277 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:37.500 we know them, we love them, we trust them, like that's 278 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.339 what we do. Oh, I mean, what updates would you like to 279 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:45.089 see? Well, you know, so try this, you guys. Pay 280 00:17:45.089 --> 00:17:48.130 attention to it's actually hilarious. How often you ask someone what was good about 281 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:52.569 something, how often they will come back and tell you something bad as well. 282 00:17:53.849 --> 00:17:56.210 It's crazy. I can attest to that. That's something I use when 283 00:17:56.250 --> 00:18:00.240 people say they might go the competitor and like that's awesome. What's your favorite 284 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.119 part about it? And then they suddenly just starts to talk. It's very 285 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.799 strange. It's Hilariously, I love it like. I love like, I 286 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.160 love like. I study language, I study rhetor I study influence and all 287 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.349 communication style, and so it's fun to learn these things. Just pay attention 288 00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:18.789 to them in real life and like notice how often this is how people say 289 00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:25.029 things. What's another small language trick that you might want people to be aware 290 00:18:25.069 --> 00:18:30.059 of? So we did down tones, we did the favorites. I mean 291 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:34.019 I think just tonality in general, like the different types of tones you can 292 00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:38.700 use to create different types of emotions in the person that you're talking to. 293 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:44.529 Right, and so learning like, for example, like when you lower your 294 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:48.369 voice, when you come down just a little bit, it makes people think 295 00:18:48.369 --> 00:18:52.210 you're talking about something more important. If you call in and you're looking to 296 00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:55.490 like find out information, we call it the loss in the city tonality. 297 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:59.680 Sound lost, sound loss, sound like you actually need help. So there's 298 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.119 something called tonal congruents. If what you're asking for doesn't match the tone that 299 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.000 you're using it. It creates distrust in the person you're talking to without them 300 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.390 even knowing. Like the Reptilian, the fear part of the brain starts to 301 00:19:11.470 --> 00:19:14.750 line up. So if you're asking for help but you don't sound like you 302 00:19:14.869 --> 00:19:18.269 need help, the person already doesn't trust you. Right. So if you're 303 00:19:18.309 --> 00:19:19.869 calling in, it's like, Hey, you know, I was, I 304 00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:23.299 was really hoping to find out, like who handles the the purchase orders for 305 00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:27.180 your company? Right, because sales people, they're told to sound enthusiastic and 306 00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:32.099 energetic. You don't sound like you actually need help, but you call in 307 00:19:32.500 --> 00:19:33.900 and like, the bigger the company, the better. This works, by 308 00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:37.609 the way, like exasperated, like someone answers the fin like, Oh thank 309 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:42.289 God, I have been through this phone tree for the last seven minutes just 310 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:48.009 trying to get someone to talk to, like I just need to find out 311 00:19:48.089 --> 00:19:52.690 who on earth handles this is your company, like I just can't figure it 312 00:19:52.769 --> 00:19:55.839 out. Like, sound like you need help. So we call it lost 313 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:57.519 in the city. If you were lost in a city, how would you 314 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.680 ask for help? You wouldn't run up to a stranger going hey, like 315 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.519 could you help me? Real quick, like Hey, like I'm lost, 316 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.430 like I'm really confused right now, like could you help me out with this 317 00:20:08.589 --> 00:20:15.309 real quick. So using tone to match what you're actually asking for is huge, 318 00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:18.190 right. So we sent a lot of time working on tones throughout our 319 00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:22.180 script, and so paying attention to tone is another like language trick that not 320 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:26.460 enough people pay attention to it. In fact, most of been taught the 321 00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:32.619 wrong way. powere sales people taught to talk energy, enthusiasm, right, 322 00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:37.769 stand in dial I'm I'm not necessarily an advocate of stand in dial I'm an 323 00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:41.970 advocate of dial how you can deliver the most confident tone you can. And 324 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:45.329 confidence actually tends to be a little bit more soft spoken. And if you 325 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.089 look at some of the deals I'm sure you've closed and I've closed, you 326 00:20:48.170 --> 00:20:52.000 were closing at your best when you're like all right, let's talk about this 327 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.160 real quick. You know, I mean I think this could work. Your 328 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:59.640 you were hype. You weren't like jumping out. Is that the the calm 329 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.390 confidence is actually what pulls people in more, because it's a set, it's 330 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.029 a can't remember how it is phrase. The calm where you are in the 331 00:21:07.109 --> 00:21:11.910 situation, the more confidence it actually exudes when you're like pressing on something. 332 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:15.269 Oh, you're going to love this, this is the best thing ever, 333 00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:17.589 you're going to love it, you're going to love me. It's actually a 334 00:21:17.589 --> 00:21:22.019 sign of insecurity, right, like the end is the insecure people tend to 335 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:26.740 be the most voiceous of how great they are. The confidence ones they move 336 00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:30.740 in silence right and you can just tell, you can just feel their confidence. 337 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.289 They don't have to say anything. That's something else that works really well 338 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:37.529 in the sales. That's a great point. Something that I noticed is I 339 00:21:37.609 --> 00:21:42.569 started paying attention to my prospects, my customers, and what they were doing, 340 00:21:42.650 --> 00:21:47.319 maybe even during negotiation or conversations. That was kind of working on me. 341 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:49.200 It's like when I was negotiating with me and I'm like I'm losing this, 342 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.359 what are they doing? And I started trying to match what they actually 343 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:57.200 showed me and the tone they were conveying and how they fell. And then 344 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.279 when I started doing that, I found myself in a more even footing where 345 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.349 it stopped being a game and it's started being more like just a conversation between 346 00:22:04.390 --> 00:22:07.029 two people the kind of know the Games, so we can kind of like 347 00:22:07.309 --> 00:22:11.710 can pass. Those are I look back, those are some of the most 348 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:15.220 fun sales I had. was when both sides knew what they were doing and 349 00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.619 you get like halfway through and you give each other the nod like okay, 350 00:22:19.299 --> 00:22:22.619 okay, I see, all right, we're on the same page here. 351 00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:25.500 Okay, let's cut the fucking bushes. Drop has cut. Let's just go 352 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:27.220 like, let's get into it. That's what it becomes real like, and 353 00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:30.170 it's almost it isn't a it is a sign of authorities. Actually, or 354 00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:34.049 and talks about this in his book. is how to like establish yourself quickly 355 00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:38.049 and it's by having a think. He can I'm only on the second round 356 00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:41.730 through the books. I don't have all the terms right. He calls it 357 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:45.880 a status alignment, like a status alignment question, like what's a question you 358 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:52.000 could ask your prospect that immediately lines you up with them, like a question 359 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.640 only an expert in that field would even know to ask. Right. It 360 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.109 clears that are real quick and these are things that strs and a, he's 361 00:23:00.269 --> 00:23:03.829 really need to pay attention to and work on. Because, str or a, 362 00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:06.789 you get me on a discovery call and you ask me what my goals 363 00:23:06.829 --> 00:23:10.029 are for the year. So so walk me through your goals for the year 364 00:23:10.150 --> 00:23:11.589 in the structure of your team. Okay, first of all, you get 365 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.819 to figure out the structure of my team off Linkedin. Second my goals for 366 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.019 the year are revenue. Thank you, but if you get on there's like 367 00:23:18.099 --> 00:23:21.900 all right. So we know times are like tough for I'm sure you're really 368 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.819 paying attention to not only you're act like your calf, but also probably your 369 00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:29.250 LTV a little bit or how efficiently you're bringing on, like you know, 370 00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:32.329 customers right now. Like what, like what game plan you have in place 371 00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:33.970 to kind of bring down on that cap, because we all know right now 372 00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:37.970 it's coming up across the board. Like what? Only someone that actually knows 373 00:23:38.089 --> 00:23:42.480 the world of a VP would ask that question. It's status alignment. Now 374 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.519 it's like, okay, I'm dealing with someone that knows what they're talking about 375 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:48.920 right so it's things like that. They can go a really long ways. 376 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:55.480 That's a great point. I'm curious. What is something a sales person maybe 377 00:23:55.559 --> 00:24:00.509 recently has said to you or a conversation you've out the sales person that's been 378 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.309 really awesome as actually moved a deal forward. Is there anything that you can 379 00:24:03.390 --> 00:24:08.950 point to? Know now and I'm sorry to have to put that out there. 380 00:24:10.339 --> 00:24:14.779 Like, I actually look at the everything I've bought in the past year 381 00:24:15.980 --> 00:24:19.059 was from from me. There was not one that was like, oh, 382 00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:25.170 like, I got sold on this right like there, that wasn't there, 383 00:24:25.690 --> 00:24:27.930 and on. And it's because of things like this, though. It's because 384 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:33.490 sales people are not able to build like not even build a case, and 385 00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:37.880 I did this training with my team the other day. Most a ease forget 386 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.039 what their job actually is. Actual. I can't say for gigs. They 387 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.839 probably never actually been told what the actual job of a salesperson is. Right, 388 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.960 if you ask most sales people what their job is, they'll tell you 389 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.630 it's to close deals, and that is not accurate. Your job as a 390 00:24:55.750 --> 00:25:00.670 world class salesperson is to make people want what you have. This is a 391 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:04.990 big shift to mentally. If you make them want it, they're more likely 392 00:25:06.269 --> 00:25:11.180 to buy. If you try to close them, they won't. Most people 393 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:15.700 skip actually making the prospect me, the buyer, want what they have. 394 00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:19.859 You have to make me want it for me to be willing to do all 395 00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:23.809 the other things. And if you're keeping that top of mine instead of I'm 396 00:25:23.849 --> 00:25:26.970 asking discovery questions. Are I'm running my sales process. If you're like, 397 00:25:27.210 --> 00:25:32.450 I'm going to make this person want what I have, it'll change the way 398 00:25:32.450 --> 00:25:36.039 that you demo. It'll change the way that you sell. When I was 399 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:37.960 selling, I'd tell this to some of my team. I wanted to be 400 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:42.519 an apology salesperson, where if you didn't buy from me, you apologized. 401 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.039 That was my goal. If you didn't buy from me, you apologize because 402 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.750 not everyone can buy. That's okay, but you can make way more people 403 00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:55.269 want your product. If that's what you're thinking about it, you would because, 404 00:25:55.470 --> 00:25:57.470 Kevin, I wish we could. Yeah, I'm so sorry, like, 405 00:25:57.589 --> 00:26:00.150 you know, I want this, you know, like I just couldn't 406 00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.500 get it through. Okay, I did my job as a salesperson. I 407 00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.500 got you to want what I have. Right. I haven't sat through a 408 00:26:07.700 --> 00:26:12.299 really good demo in a long time, like a long time, that someone 409 00:26:12.339 --> 00:26:17.500 like really made me want what they had. They give me the information and 410 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.809 I have to convince myself afterwards that I wanted and I'd be willing to bet 411 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:23.809 if you look at how you buy things, that's how it works often too. 412 00:26:25.289 --> 00:26:27.329 You got what you needed from the rep you didn't get what you wanted. 413 00:26:27.609 --> 00:26:30.730 You had to go can if they yourself afterwards. Yeah, this is 414 00:26:30.849 --> 00:26:36.240 something that I want and this is something I've been noticing in any dem I've 415 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.559 taken. I haven't even noticed discovery. I don't know if I just gotten 416 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.400 unlucky, but I've never been in a sales process where there was any time 417 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.150 dedicated to them understanding me at all. Besides maybe. Yeah, what are 418 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:52.910 your goals? That's the only question I hear. Are you running across that 419 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:56.950 as well? Are you running into any discovery calls? So yeah, like 420 00:26:56.230 --> 00:27:02.859 people, they're just trying to be relatively calm. They're just garbage like they're 421 00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:07.740 asking discovery questions because they were taught to ask discovery questions. They're not asking 422 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.539 them because they're actually going to use them to sell. We have a rule 423 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:12.220 like in our discovery processes. Don't ask a question you're not going to use 424 00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:17.289 to close. If you're not going to use it in some way to help 425 00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:21.369 close this deal, don't ask you if you're not going to use it. 426 00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:26.569 Why are you asking right, if you can't tie it back to closing them 427 00:27:26.650 --> 00:27:30.880 in some way, it's not worth asking. Right you, how often? 428 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.960 Even the classic what I use. So tell me your goals. For the 429 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.000 year and I tell them my goals for the year and guess what? I 430 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.359 never hear about ever again in the entire sales process. Your goals, my 431 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.950 goals for the year. Right, they'll pointed discovery is to help you close. 432 00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:48.230 If you're not going to bring it back up, if you're not going 433 00:27:48.269 --> 00:27:52.029 to tie it back to discovery, then don't even do it. All right, 434 00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:56.549 it's a waste of everybody's time. Yeah, it sucks to have to 435 00:27:56.589 --> 00:27:59.140 go to the negative like I was hoping to find. I'm like, I 436 00:27:59.180 --> 00:28:00.859 can't even find a positive, which is why I ask you. I guess 437 00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:03.619 it's from my perspective to share. I would like to hear more, like 438 00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:08.059 you said, and understanding of my industry. Like Hey, when I talk 439 00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:12.410 to people in Sass typically their main problem is there's, you know, hundreds 440 00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:18.410 of people competing in the same market, if not thousands, and there's no 441 00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:22.089 real way to differentiate besides like getting it to the minutia and like you're trying 442 00:28:22.130 --> 00:28:26.720 to shift market because you probably got early investment and now you're trying to prove 443 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:30.920 that your worth and like stuff like that, where they set the tone and 444 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:36.119 then ask questions about how I'm planning to do something about it where? That's 445 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.200 where the making someone want your product comes in. That's where it starts and 446 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:44.549 that's where that's where to earlier come about. Like now, problem based questions 447 00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:47.829 is not even a say ask me how I'm going to do it. So 448 00:28:47.950 --> 00:28:51.269 this is this is important, because if you ask me how I'm going to 449 00:28:51.430 --> 00:28:55.819 do it, I'm now selling myself on how I plan to do it. 450 00:28:56.380 --> 00:29:00.859 You're actually reaffirming my process. You follow me here, this is how I'm 451 00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:04.660 going to do it, versus if you start with problems and start to expose 452 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:08.859 problems. Right. So what we teach us like a bucket question. Right. 453 00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:12.809 So this is like the first question that we start like with off in 454 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:17.890 our discovery. Hey, so, talking to doctors all day long in tend 455 00:29:17.930 --> 00:29:22.009 to fall into two buckets. Either one, they're struggling to see enough patients 456 00:29:22.369 --> 00:29:25.440 or two, they're struggling to see the right patients. which bucking do you 457 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.559 fall into? You right now? Done, I have a problem agreeance within 458 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:34.279 the first question. Now everything else we're going through is going to be tied 459 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:37.829 back to that problem, the impact of that problem and what we're going to 460 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:42.269 do about that problem. Right. So that's why I like. I'm not 461 00:29:42.349 --> 00:29:45.269 a big believer in like. What are your goals for the year? As 462 00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:48.710 I a starter, it's like, why are we even talking right? So 463 00:29:48.869 --> 00:29:52.150 for Panda Doot, if you got me on, why would I like? 464 00:29:52.309 --> 00:29:56.619 What are the two main reasons I would even talk to you about your product? 465 00:29:56.579 --> 00:30:00.700 Expensive mistakes on documents or forecast and accuracies. Okay, Kadi, I 466 00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.259 talk to VP's all day long. They all seem to struggle with one one 467 00:30:04.339 --> 00:30:07.369 of three things when it comes to this type of stuff. Either deals are 468 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:11.529 taking too long to get signed and so time kills all deals, they are 469 00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:15.849 for missing their forecast, or don't even know what their forecast is because things 470 00:30:15.890 --> 00:30:18.049 are being reported up that aren't accurate or black. Which one is your world 471 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.440 right now? Okay, now, right out the gate, you've established yourself 472 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.720 slightly as an authority. Like you get my world. You know the pain 473 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.000 points I'm struggling with, and now I've already yet I did. My forecast 474 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:34.079 are all over the place. Now we can get into more discovery. Okay. 475 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.789 So, like, what's wrong? What's happening there? What have you 476 00:30:37.829 --> 00:30:41.829 done to try to fix it? Where's this going wrong? How are you 477 00:30:42.029 --> 00:30:48.829 able to now. We're building up that problem with the now. Then we 478 00:30:48.950 --> 00:30:51.740 can move into the future. Stuff. Right, human beings, we don't 479 00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:53.500 really make moves for the future that often like. We like to talk like 480 00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:56.500 we do, but we really don't. We make moves and things are wrong 481 00:30:57.180 --> 00:31:00.980 now. Right, the difference between making more money and not having enough money, 482 00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:07.769 which one tends to motivate people more? Not Having it, not having 483 00:31:07.809 --> 00:31:10.890 enough? Right. And before people listening to go like, Oh, like 484 00:31:11.049 --> 00:31:15.569 pain selling, I'm not talking about pain selling, just talking about dissatisfaction with 485 00:31:15.769 --> 00:31:18.599 the now. If you can plant doubt in the now, that's how you 486 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:23.680 make room for the future. Right. That's the key to really selling. 487 00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.279 Well, if you can't just sell them something new, you have to unsell 488 00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.839 them on the now. That's a really good exit point. But I do 489 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.190 want to give you an opportunity, as we actually hear, if there is 490 00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:37.950 anything you want someone to take away from this conversation. What would you say? 491 00:31:37.990 --> 00:31:42.430 That is I say. If there's anything, I would say start studying 492 00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:49.259 psychology and communication and like buy or behavior. Right, like a lot of 493 00:31:49.339 --> 00:31:52.420 the sales books out there are good. There's a lot of really good sales 494 00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:55.980 books out there, but they're all coming down to a lot of the same 495 00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:01.849 things around messaging and people. If you understand people better, if you understand 496 00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:07.250 what motivates people to make changes, if you understand why people buy things, 497 00:32:07.450 --> 00:32:10.930 if you understand how people communicate and how tone and language can affect it, 498 00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:16.079 that's a way bigger than going in reading another sales book. Start studying people, 499 00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.200 because you're selling to people. People Buy Right, people buy for companies. 500 00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.359 I've yet to have a company by anything. It right. Right. 501 00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:27.440 I just talked to the brick wall out front with the logo. You know 502 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:29.440 I'm saying. Right, I just tie, I just talk to the company, 503 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.829 because that's all a company is. Companies are building in an LLC and 504 00:32:31.869 --> 00:32:37.230 even right now if I'm in a building. People buy. Understand people better. 505 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:40.390 Understand your prospects better. Right, most I've talked about this before. 506 00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:44.819 I guess it will be the parting advice. Go Talk to some customers, 507 00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:47.619 please. Like most sales ups, never talk to customers. The only talk 508 00:32:47.660 --> 00:32:52.859 to prospects and they wonder why they can't get more prospects to be customers. 509 00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:55.779 Right. So go. If you're listening to this, go to ceus. 510 00:32:57.220 --> 00:33:00.529 Ask them to talk to thirty customers. are going to ask them these questions. 511 00:33:00.250 --> 00:33:04.289 Why did you buy? What does our product do for you? What 512 00:33:04.490 --> 00:33:07.849 problems were you hoping to solve with our product? What's your favorite part about 513 00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:13.839 the product? What were you afraid of before buying the product? What's changed 514 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.759 the most since having our product? If you go get those six questions answered 515 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:22.799 by three forty customers, your scripting, your demo, your follow up will 516 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.829 get significantly better because you'll start to describe the product the way your prospects and 517 00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:34.109 customers would describe your product. That that if anyone does anything tactically from this, 518 00:33:34.470 --> 00:33:37.150 go do that, I promise you. Your Demo and everything gets better 519 00:33:37.190 --> 00:33:39.269 because you'll know the objections, you'll know the buying process, you'll know how 520 00:33:39.349 --> 00:33:44.579 to describe your product better and what problems they were actually trying to solve. 521 00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:47.579 That's the the cruxt of all of it, and if you're listening, please 522 00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:51.380 rely that and write that down, because I'm actually going to listen back this 523 00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:55.089 take notes on the appreciate that Kitty a minute. Really appreciate you being here 524 00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:58.650 today. Man, what's the best way for people to connect with you right 525 00:33:58.690 --> 00:34:01.450 now? Online? Find me on Linkedin. I don't have snap or Graham 526 00:34:01.490 --> 00:34:06.809 or twitter, any of that. Just sign me on on Linkedin and I'll 527 00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:09.760 try to respond. There's Best I can no. Tick Tock, no tick 528 00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:13.199 tock, although I got some. I'M gonna get on there. Dr Get, 529 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.639 I get throw some moves down on tick tock, but don't know, 530 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.079 buddy, want to see that? They don't need to see that. Side 531 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.519 will come up eventually. I'll get you. Yeah, go a then. 532 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:23.789 All right, I appreciate you being here, man. You have a good 533 00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:30.070 day. Youtube. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bab Gross Show. 534 00:34:30.590 --> 00:34:35.110 I'm your coast again forever, Patrick Dance, the sales enablement trainer at 535 00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:38.099 Pandada. Please connect with me on Linkedin to chat. I'm happy to answer 536 00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:43.179 any questions provide recommendations. I'm also quite the dancer if you want a video. 537 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.820 If you like this episode or have a question, join the discussion on 538 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:51.219 Instagram at B Tob Gross show. Thanks for tuning in and subscribing to the 539 00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:57.849 BDB Gros show. Until next time, sports, this episode is brought to 540 00:34:57.849 --> 00:35:01.210 you by Panda Doc sending your documents is pds through email is super old school. 541 00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:06.010 It's time to while the socks off your prospects. Clients and colleagues by 542 00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:09.000 creating, sending, tracking and e signing with Panda Doc. Go to panda 543 00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:14.920 doccom Slash B tob today and start a completely free trial. No credit card 544 00:35:15.000 --> required.