Transcript
WEBVTT
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If something's too novel, it actually
scares people away. So novelty is what
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attracts attention to want to learn more
about. If the process is so different,
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if it's so new, it's so
groundbreaking and it's so disruptive, actually
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scares people away. Welcome to the
BB grous show. I'm your cohost forever
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Patrick downs, the sales name thement
trenor at Panda Doc, will be talking
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about being on the other side of
the sales table. Today I'm here with
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Kevin Dorsey, VP of sales at
patient pop and inside sales, top ten
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sales leader. Why do you think
they made that decision, though, as
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far as like, Hey, I
think we're going to go back soon,
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was there anything there base in that
off of do you think those just wishful
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thinking? I mean the common,
you know, human fallacy, hope.
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We hope for things and because we
hope for things, it changes our decisionmaking
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right, like you know, sometimes
I wish I could be in some of
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these rooms to listen to the conversations
right because there's no logical reason. There's
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zero logical reason. Hey, this
disease is spreading its rittened faster than anything
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we've really dealt with before. We
have no vaccine or treatment for it.
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What do you guys think? You
think this is going to be done in
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two months? Yeah, yeah,
I think. I hope so oh so
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and make decisions off of hope.
We do it all the time. We
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do it in our personal lives,
we do it in sales, people do
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in business. It's actually comical to
think about. I've never heard hope refer
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to as a Fallacie, but I'm
going to take that, Kevin. I
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love that. So I talked about
with my team's all the time. I
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like hope has crushed more dreams than
it's created, because hope actually cause you
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to hold onto things that were dead
long ago. Now. You always hear
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about the stories where hope turned into
something. You hear about those stories.
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You don't hear about the ones that
ran themselves into the ground or ran company
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in the ground or ran a relationship
into the ground just because they were hoping.
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Right. How many deals in people's
pipelines are literally there because of hope?
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You know I'm saying right. Like
we call the hope zone the friend
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zone in sales, like if you're
just hoping, the steel closes, like
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you're in the friend zone right now, like you're not getting any you need
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to move it out of the hope
zone right. Yeah, but hope,
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man, it messes with people more
than it actually helps them. It's funny
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that you mentioned that, because our
topics today is about being on the other
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side of the sales table, so
to speak, and often times when I'm
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being prospected, I can kind of
feel the hope, like I can see
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the sales up wants to ask me
something, but they're so afraid of my
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answer that they want to hold under
the hope of this going forward that they
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don't ask it. I do you
experience that as well? Oh, absolutely,
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like, I've talked about this before
too. Is Like I wish sale
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if sales ups did know what it
was like after the demo. It's like,
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take a second, what do you
do? We do after your demo?
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Like do you think we're skipping down
the hallways like, Oh my God,
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that was the greatest demo I've ever
seen. I can't wait to buy
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this, like no, like I
wonder how many pipelines I'm in right now,
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right, like that mine, you
know. I'm saying, like my
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name is in the pipeline, like
Oh yeah, like, dude, there's
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a shot, there's a shot.
You know, I haven't spoken to him
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in two days or, sorry,
in two months, but like there's there's
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a sham. I'm feeling good about
this, like you know, it's just
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hilarious to me. Like reps hope
that the deal will close and they hope
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the buyer will say yes without them
asking, or they hope an objection doesn't
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come up, or they hope they
don't ask for a discount. Like it's
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all hope. Man, if you
took hope out and actually anticipated those things,
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it would change the sales process in
a massive way. Yeah, and
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and I don't know about you,
but our internal buying process is kind of
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loosely defined. So when I'm talking
to a salesperson and they don't give me
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anything as far as like what the
next steps look like or what they're expecting
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of me or what we're doing,
even with this information, I don't really
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know what to do. So,
like, after I hang up, I'm
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just like, honestly, I don't
know what to do with this information,
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as just like four day directions.
I could go. There's like the two
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big ones is we don't know what
to do with the information or we know
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what to do, but it's going
to require too much work. Like,
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all right, I know what I
have to do. I have to go
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run the numbers and see if I
can justify this cost. I have to
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go ask for approval, I have
to go see if this is even going
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to work. I have to get
internal by and I have to do it.
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And now sales people that are listening, I don't even know if it's
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going to be part of the live
stuff or not. Right they go,
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oh well, why don't you involve
us? This is always been also comical
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to me. Do you think you
will be able to sell internally better than
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me? Like, I don't care
what salesperson you think you are out there.
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Do you think you'll out sell me
internally? Do you think you'll be
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able to convince my ctfo better than
I will? Do you think you'll be
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able to convince my managers better than
me? Right, that's all stuff that
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I'm going to have to do.
But in order to do that I have
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to want what you have, and
most ups never actually make us want it.
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We convince ourselves after the demo that
we want it. That's when most
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of the buying starts to happen is
afterwards we have to convince ourselves whether it's
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worth it or not. That's true. I'd also like to say that I
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feel like if a salesperson is holding
my hand a little bit more, it
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would be easier. Like if,
yeah, there was a part of that.
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Hey, like, this is the
next step, and typically in our
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sales process you would have to take
it to your finance person. So,
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like, let's build a business case
together and talk about if that's even comfortable
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for you. Yes, and that's
all in the first the first bokeet.
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They absolutely can help write. If
you know I'm going to have to get
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this approved by finance and you know
I'm going to have to run numbers to
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prove it's worth it, help me
do that. If you know I'm going
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to go have to meet with legal
to talk compliance, give me the shit.
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That already allows me to do that
right. Like, Hey, normally
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the next stepster, is a talk
with your security team. Here's a five
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minute video that covers the top ten
questions we get from every other security team.
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Have them watch that, have them
read this, and we can hop
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on a call together to see if
there's anything outstanding place they're do that.
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Please help me, help me help
you. That's the thing is is.
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I think sales are just so afraid
that you're going to react poorly to the
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idea of building a business case or
trying to move the deal forward that they
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forget to do all that stuff.
They don't want to do it or makes
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them uncomfortable. But the reality is
if anyone serious about buying your product,
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they want that stuff. Like if
I'm talking to somebody and it's like an
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ABM product and I think this thing
is going to enable my team to do
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outbound, I'm super hyped about it. But the only thing they're trying to
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do is get some sort of like
nebulous next step on the calendar that doesn't
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have a real agenda. They don't
even know where we're going. It's hard
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for me to actually make the case
well, and that's where it depends on
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the buyer. And I may not
represent all buyers, but building the business
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case generally I don't enjoy having the
sales rip involved because I don't trust them
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to help me build a sit a
business case, because what are they going
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to present? More often than not, when it comes to a business case,
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what's something that's going to help them
or I like, look at all
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this Roy, look at how great
this is going to be. Like it's
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always the same versus when I'm building
a business case, and this is how
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I believe sales up should do it. I'm going worst case scenario. I'm
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going, what does this look like
if it takes nine months to adopt?
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What does this look like if only
half the team uses it? What does
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this look like at the worst case
scenario? Right, to see like if
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I can justify that cost to finance, right, because finance never believes the
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n x Roi like, and they
should it right like that. That's not
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the case. Right. So the
business case. Normally with sales reps,
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they look at they build it too
optimistically, so then no one believes it
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and either I have to go back
and do more work with it or just
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gets tossed out and it actually hurts
the case more than helps it. If
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a sales rep were to do that
with you, build a business case based
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on worst case scenarios, would you
trust that more or would you just not
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be open to it at all?
I trust it more, absolutely right,
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like, and I actually I wrote
an article a while back called how to
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sell to a VP of sales,
and that's in there. It's like you
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don't build our I off the best
case scenario, you build our I off
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the worst case scenario that you both
can agree to. Write. Does the
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product justify itself even at the low
end? Right? So, stop telling
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me I'm going to get x amount
more pipeline or x amount more customers or
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x amount of more revenue. Like
what's the bare minimum? Like, ad
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do you think this will help?
You even see a two percent lift,
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like even two percent, because it
was not even going to be two percent,
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like we don't need to talk,
like we can just let this go
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right. Well, yeah, two
percent sounds fair. R. Let's run
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those numbers real quick. What would
a two percent look like? Here's what
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this cut like. Now we're actually
talking about things when it's always just a
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best case scenario. That's that's when
you lose a little bit of credibility with
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a buyer. Working backward, it's
from worst case is nicely. Something Nice
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to do when I was a rep
was and say hey, like our average
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customer lispense two and a half years. In that two and a half your
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period. If you did go with
us, could you see us helping you
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close, even one more deal,
just the very bottom, and then you
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kind of going up from there until
they're like no, I think that's where
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I feel we end. It's like, okay, so that's the actual business
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case, like I can give you
what our averages are, and then you
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take what you feel and kind of
go in the middle of that, right,
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because then at the end of the
day, yeah, working up and
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then just has to be worth it, because if I'm only going to get
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one deal, it's not worth the
pain of change. No, right.
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So it's finding that middle ground of
like, okay, we feel this is
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totally fair but also worth it,
because if it's too low, it's not
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even worth the change. Right,
especially as your orgs get bigger. I
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don't know how big your or is
there you have, I look at having
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over a hundred reps. the pain
of change is big, like it's big,
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and sometimes they'll do oh, the
pain of staying the same. They
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don't understand how much pain it's actually
going to be to change. And then
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really interesting book that I'm going through
right now. It's called flip the script
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by or in cloth. He wrote
pitch anything, which is a great,
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great book. Definitely read that if
you're listening. But his, his new
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one, is bringing something up that
I hadn't heard presented before, was which
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is if something's too novel, it
actually scares people away. So novelty is
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what attracts attention to want to learn
more about. If the process is so
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different, if it's so new,
it's so groundbreaking and it's so disruptive,
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actually scares people away. Right like, if I'm looking at a fifty million
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dollar Bogie on my head, am
I going to go with something new or
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something I know something? You know
something, I know, even if it's
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not as good as maybe this other
thing over here, I know it and
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so I can predict it and so
I can feel more safe with it.
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Right. So that pain a change
is bigger than most sellers understand. You
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know how hard it is to get
product adoption across a hundred people. That's
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why people stick with the brand that
they know. Right like, and I'm
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our market, that's Docu sign.
So often times, you know, they'll
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just go with docusign because they know
that everybody uses docusign. Or why somebody
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that even maybe wants to stay healthy
might stop at McDonald's. I know what
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I'm getting at McDonald's, even if
it's going to hurt me. I'd rather
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go with what I know right because
people if you unless you can unsell them
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now, it's really hard to sell
the future, and that's something a lot
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of reps skip over. All they
focus on is selling the future. Everything's
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going to be better, everything's going
to be great, you're gonna love this,
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and it's all on the future.
You have to unsell them on the
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now. You have to dig out
the doubts of the now to make it
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worth the change for the future,
and not a lot of repspend enough time
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doing that. They do discovery to
find out how will affect them in the
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future. They're not doing discovery in
a way that UN sells them on why
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they do it, how they do
it now. HMM, interesting because,
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I mean, you look at something
like gap selling, that's all about the
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future versus the now and it's all
spent uncovering a gap. So we don't
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really talk about a lot of how
to unsell the current state. What are
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some tips you would give somebody listening
on how to do that? So there's
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a few ways to do this right
and you know, gap selling covers a
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little bit. It's actually funny.
Like Kett and I've joked about this,
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I was teaching gap selling long before
the book got written. Like I have
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presentations from like two thousand and sixteen, two thousand and seventeen of me talking
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about gap questions and talking about selling
the gaps. So it was really funny
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how Keenan then also with the same
path and like built something off it.
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But you know, there's a lot
of things he does talk about with the
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problem now and the impact now.
Right, it's all about how you decide
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to do it right. So if
you ask me a gap question of like
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okay, so how you know?
How are you doing x? So this
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is a how to build a good
gap question. How are you doing x?
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So that why doesn't happen right.
So you pick something that you know
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your product does well. What's the
negative of not doing it that way?
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You build it that way. So
say we're doing something with hand to doc
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and like, I don't know,
you know one of the things you guys
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do better than doc? You sign
or not, but you say, okay,
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so how are you better? How
are you allowing, you know,
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three people to sign the same doc
humans at once so that deals don't get
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delayed by having to send it around
multiple times. Like how are you doing
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that right now, if you know
your main competitor or the status quote can't
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do that? You're already now planting
a little bit of seed of doubt,
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of like well, I can't do
that right. Oh. So. So,
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yeah, people got extended around Multiple
Times. I does that delay the
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process at all? Yeah, for
sure. Okay, that's a problem with
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the now, right. So you
can start to unsell them just through questions.
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Another great one. I just talked
about this with some people the other
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day. Reps do this all the
time as hilarious. Our tone, our
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tonality. Most reps when they're asking
questions around discovery and like how people do
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things. What are the filler words, most rescues? They say, Oh,
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how do you do this? I
say like this. What do they
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say back? A lot of like
that, sort of the kind of it's
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self committal words. So not that
Filler word is the response back. They'll
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say okay, good, okay,
great, Gotcha, cool, perfect,
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swesome, perfect, sweet. So
this is very interesting with language. Okay,
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subconsciously you're reaffirming that what I'm doing
is good, great, perfect,
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awesome. HMM, okay, now
this is how you flip this. You
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ask someone, so, how are
you getting doc signed right now? And
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they say they say Docu sign,
it's a Docu sign. You Go,
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Oh okay. What does that create? If you go a down tone with
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it, you go oh okay,
what does that create in the prospect side?
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Curiosity around why? You just set
it that way. Right, I
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will wait, like what's it's not
constronged with right, like Oh, right,
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like using down tones intentionally create some
massive amount of curiosity and doubt.
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Now you don't go you don't sound
like a Dick, you don't go all
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the way down like Oh, you'se
Docu Sign, Oh my God, yeah,
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yeah, this is guy over here. You. You don't do that
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right, but you're saying Oh okay, and then you go on to the
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next question. You don't even address
it, you just go on to the
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next one. It's being intentional with
make planting seeds of doubt that maybe the
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way I'm doing this isn't the best
way to do it. That's interesting.
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Yeah, I I was actually just
talking to somebody from practice who's a company
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the places people with unconventional backgrounds into
sales shops, and they were talking about
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that like when somebody on the phone
would say, yeah, we're cool with
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our current vendor and it's like,
oh, how are you even doing that
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right now? And it tends to
continue the conversation because you're not saying that
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they suck at what they're doing.
You're almost kind of concerned. Yeah,
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so it's funny. We teacher.
We love the concerned tone when they tell
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like when we get into discovery,
when someone tells us that they're already using
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someone, we actually go the opposite. For a pattern break. We say
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thank God, right, like all
like like we're area using someone. Oh
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thank God, thank God you got
something. You know many people I talk
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to you that aren't any aren't doing
anything. Like what are you using?
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What's your favorite part about it?
Turn the right path. Yeah, right,
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this is this is it's just to
get the conversation going. It's just
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to allow us to continue to talk, because most people, and they say
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we're already using someone, it's just
a deflection, right, like they're just
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trying to get you off the phone. When I say like Oh, thank
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God, first of all that catches
people off guard. Okay, and then
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too is like what's your favorite part? This is what's very interesting. With
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us as human beings, it's almost
like we can't say the negative. So
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if you ask someone what their favorite
part of something was, almost always,
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not always, almost always, they'll
give you a good but they also give
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you a bad. It's hilarious.
Pay attention this. Moving forward, right.
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So you someone went out to dinner. They're like, Oh man,
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I had this amazing dinner on what
was your favorite part? Like, what
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was so good about it? God, like the state came out perfect,
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the atmosphere was amazing. Like it
was expensive. I'M NOT gonna lie,
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like it costs a lot, but
it's almost like they can't help but share
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a little bit of negative. People
will do this in the buying process.
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To write. Oh Yeah, yeah, we use such and such. You
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know, we've been with them for
a long time, you know, like
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you know they don't make all the
updates that they could, but, like,
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we know them, we love them, we trust them, like that's
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what we do. Oh, I
mean, what updates would you like to
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see? Well, you know,
so try this, you guys. Pay
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attention to it's actually hilarious. How
often you ask someone what was good about
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something, how often they will come
back and tell you something bad as well.
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It's crazy. I can attest to
that. That's something I use when
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people say they might go the competitor
and like that's awesome. What's your favorite
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part about it? And then they
suddenly just starts to talk. It's very
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strange. It's Hilariously, I love
it like. I love like, I
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love like. I study language,
I study rhetor I study influence and all
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communication style, and so it's fun
to learn these things. Just pay attention
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to them in real life and like
notice how often this is how people say
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things. What's another small language trick
that you might want people to be aware
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of? So we did down tones, we did the favorites. I mean
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I think just tonality in general,
like the different types of tones you can
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use to create different types of emotions
in the person that you're talking to.
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Right, and so learning like,
for example, like when you lower your
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voice, when you come down just
a little bit, it makes people think
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you're talking about something more important.
If you call in and you're looking to
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like find out information, we call
it the loss in the city tonality.
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Sound lost, sound loss, sound
like you actually need help. So there's
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something called tonal congruents. If what
you're asking for doesn't match the tone that
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you're using it. It creates distrust
in the person you're talking to without them
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even knowing. Like the Reptilian,
the fear part of the brain starts to
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line up. So if you're asking
for help but you don't sound like you
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need help, the person already doesn't
trust you. Right. So if you're
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calling in, it's like, Hey, you know, I was, I
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was really hoping to find out,
like who handles the the purchase orders for
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your company? Right, because sales
people, they're told to sound enthusiastic and
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energetic. You don't sound like you
actually need help, but you call in
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and like, the bigger the company, the better. This works, by
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the way, like exasperated, like
someone answers the fin like, Oh thank
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God, I have been through this
phone tree for the last seven minutes just
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trying to get someone to talk to, like I just need to find out
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who on earth handles this is your
company, like I just can't figure it
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out. Like, sound like you
need help. So we call it lost
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in the city. If you were
lost in a city, how would you
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ask for help? You wouldn't run
up to a stranger going hey, like
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could you help me? Real quick, like Hey, like I'm lost,
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like I'm really confused right now,
like could you help me out with this
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real quick. So using tone to
match what you're actually asking for is huge,
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right. So we sent a lot
of time working on tones throughout our
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script, and so paying attention to
tone is another like language trick that not
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enough people pay attention to it.
In fact, most of been taught the
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wrong way. powere sales people taught
to talk energy, enthusiasm, right,
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stand in dial I'm I'm not necessarily
an advocate of stand in dial I'm an
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advocate of dial how you can deliver
the most confident tone you can. And
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confidence actually tends to be a little
bit more soft spoken. And if you
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look at some of the deals I'm
sure you've closed and I've closed, you
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were closing at your best when you're
like all right, let's talk about this
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real quick. You know, I
mean I think this could work. Your
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you were hype. You weren't like
jumping out. Is that the the calm
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confidence is actually what pulls people in
more, because it's a set, it's
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a can't remember how it is phrase. The calm where you are in the
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situation, the more confidence it actually
exudes when you're like pressing on something.
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Oh, you're going to love this, this is the best thing ever,
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you're going to love it, you're
going to love me. It's actually a
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sign of insecurity, right, like
the end is the insecure people tend to
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be the most voiceous of how great
they are. The confidence ones they move
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in silence right and you can just
tell, you can just feel their confidence.
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They don't have to say anything.
That's something else that works really well
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in the sales. That's a great
point. Something that I noticed is I
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started paying attention to my prospects,
my customers, and what they were doing,
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maybe even during negotiation or conversations.
That was kind of working on me.
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It's like when I was negotiating with
me and I'm like I'm losing this,
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what are they doing? And I
started trying to match what they actually
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showed me and the tone they were
conveying and how they fell. And then
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when I started doing that, I
found myself in a more even footing where
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it stopped being a game and it's
started being more like just a conversation between
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two people the kind of know the
Games, so we can kind of like
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can pass. Those are I look
back, those are some of the most
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fun sales I had. was when
both sides knew what they were doing and
349
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you get like halfway through and you
give each other the nod like okay,
350
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okay, I see, all right, we're on the same page here.
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Okay, let's cut the fucking bushes. Drop has cut. Let's just go
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like, let's get into it.
That's what it becomes real like, and
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it's almost it isn't a it is
a sign of authorities. Actually, or
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and talks about this in his book. is how to like establish yourself quickly
355
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and it's by having a think.
He can I'm only on the second round
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through the books. I don't have
all the terms right. He calls it
357
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a status alignment, like a status
alignment question, like what's a question you
358
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could ask your prospect that immediately lines
you up with them, like a question
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only an expert in that field would
even know to ask. Right. It
360
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clears that are real quick and these
are things that strs and a, he's
361
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really need to pay attention to and
work on. Because, str or a,
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you get me on a discovery call
and you ask me what my goals
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are for the year. So so
walk me through your goals for the year
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in the structure of your team.
Okay, first of all, you get
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to figure out the structure of my
team off Linkedin. Second my goals for
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the year are revenue. Thank you, but if you get on there's like
367
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all right. So we know times
are like tough for I'm sure you're really
368
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paying attention to not only you're act
like your calf, but also probably your
369
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LTV a little bit or how efficiently
you're bringing on, like you know,
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customers right now. Like what,
like what game plan you have in place
371
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to kind of bring down on that
cap, because we all know right now
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it's coming up across the board.
Like what? Only someone that actually knows
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the world of a VP would ask
that question. It's status alignment. Now
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it's like, okay, I'm dealing
with someone that knows what they're talking about
375
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right so it's things like that.
They can go a really long ways.
376
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That's a great point. I'm curious. What is something a sales person maybe
377
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recently has said to you or a
conversation you've out the sales person that's been
378
00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.309
really awesome as actually moved a deal
forward. Is there anything that you can
379
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point to? Know now and I'm
sorry to have to put that out there.
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Like, I actually look at the
everything I've bought in the past year
381
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was from from me. There was
not one that was like, oh,
382
00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:25.170
like, I got sold on this
right like there, that wasn't there,
383
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and on. And it's because of
things like this, though. It's because
384
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sales people are not able to build
like not even build a case, and
385
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I did this training with my team
the other day. Most a ease forget
386
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what their job actually is. Actual. I can't say for gigs. They
387
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probably never actually been told what the
actual job of a salesperson is. Right,
388
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if you ask most sales people what
their job is, they'll tell you
389
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it's to close deals, and that
is not accurate. Your job as a
390
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world class salesperson is to make people
want what you have. This is a
391
00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:04.990
big shift to mentally. If you
make them want it, they're more likely
392
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to buy. If you try to
close them, they won't. Most people
393
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skip actually making the prospect me,
the buyer, want what they have.
394
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You have to make me want it
for me to be willing to do all
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the other things. And if you're
keeping that top of mine instead of I'm
396
00:25:23.849 --> 00:25:26.970
asking discovery questions. Are I'm running
my sales process. If you're like,
397
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I'm going to make this person want
what I have, it'll change the way
398
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that you demo. It'll change the
way that you sell. When I was
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selling, I'd tell this to some
of my team. I wanted to be
400
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an apology salesperson, where if you
didn't buy from me, you apologized.
401
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.039
That was my goal. If you
didn't buy from me, you apologize because
402
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.750
not everyone can buy. That's okay, but you can make way more people
403
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want your product. If that's what
you're thinking about it, you would because,
404
00:25:55.470 --> 00:25:57.470
Kevin, I wish we could.
Yeah, I'm so sorry, like,
405
00:25:57.589 --> 00:26:00.150
you know, I want this,
you know, like I just couldn't
406
00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.500
get it through. Okay, I
did my job as a salesperson. I
407
00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.500
got you to want what I have. Right. I haven't sat through a
408
00:26:07.700 --> 00:26:12.299
really good demo in a long time, like a long time, that someone
409
00:26:12.339 --> 00:26:17.500
like really made me want what they
had. They give me the information and
410
00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.809
I have to convince myself afterwards that
I wanted and I'd be willing to bet
411
00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:23.809
if you look at how you buy
things, that's how it works often too.
412
00:26:25.289 --> 00:26:27.329
You got what you needed from the
rep you didn't get what you wanted.
413
00:26:27.609 --> 00:26:30.730
You had to go can if they
yourself afterwards. Yeah, this is
414
00:26:30.849 --> 00:26:36.240
something that I want and this is
something I've been noticing in any dem I've
415
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.559
taken. I haven't even noticed discovery. I don't know if I just gotten
416
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.400
unlucky, but I've never been in
a sales process where there was any time
417
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.150
dedicated to them understanding me at all. Besides maybe. Yeah, what are
418
00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:52.910
your goals? That's the only question
I hear. Are you running across that
419
00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:56.950
as well? Are you running into
any discovery calls? So yeah, like
420
00:26:56.230 --> 00:27:02.859
people, they're just trying to be
relatively calm. They're just garbage like they're
421
00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:07.740
asking discovery questions because they were taught
to ask discovery questions. They're not asking
422
00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.539
them because they're actually going to use
them to sell. We have a rule
423
00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:12.220
like in our discovery processes. Don't
ask a question you're not going to use
424
00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:17.289
to close. If you're not going
to use it in some way to help
425
00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:21.369
close this deal, don't ask you
if you're not going to use it.
426
00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:26.569
Why are you asking right, if
you can't tie it back to closing them
427
00:27:26.650 --> 00:27:30.880
in some way, it's not worth
asking. Right you, how often?
428
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.960
Even the classic what I use.
So tell me your goals. For the
429
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.000
year and I tell them my goals
for the year and guess what? I
430
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.359
never hear about ever again in the
entire sales process. Your goals, my
431
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.950
goals for the year. Right,
they'll pointed discovery is to help you close.
432
00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:48.230
If you're not going to bring it
back up, if you're not going
433
00:27:48.269 --> 00:27:52.029
to tie it back to discovery,
then don't even do it. All right,
434
00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:56.549
it's a waste of everybody's time.
Yeah, it sucks to have to
435
00:27:56.589 --> 00:27:59.140
go to the negative like I was
hoping to find. I'm like, I
436
00:27:59.180 --> 00:28:00.859
can't even find a positive, which
is why I ask you. I guess
437
00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:03.619
it's from my perspective to share.
I would like to hear more, like
438
00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:08.059
you said, and understanding of my
industry. Like Hey, when I talk
439
00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:12.410
to people in Sass typically their main
problem is there's, you know, hundreds
440
00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:18.410
of people competing in the same market, if not thousands, and there's no
441
00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:22.089
real way to differentiate besides like getting
it to the minutia and like you're trying
442
00:28:22.130 --> 00:28:26.720
to shift market because you probably got
early investment and now you're trying to prove
443
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:30.920
that your worth and like stuff like
that, where they set the tone and
444
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:36.119
then ask questions about how I'm planning
to do something about it where? That's
445
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.200
where the making someone want your product
comes in. That's where it starts and
446
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:44.549
that's where that's where to earlier come
about. Like now, problem based questions
447
00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:47.829
is not even a say ask me
how I'm going to do it. So
448
00:28:47.950 --> 00:28:51.269
this is this is important, because
if you ask me how I'm going to
449
00:28:51.430 --> 00:28:55.819
do it, I'm now selling myself
on how I plan to do it.
450
00:28:56.380 --> 00:29:00.859
You're actually reaffirming my process. You
follow me here, this is how I'm
451
00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:04.660
going to do it, versus if
you start with problems and start to expose
452
00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:08.859
problems. Right. So what we
teach us like a bucket question. Right.
453
00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:12.809
So this is like the first question
that we start like with off in
454
00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:17.890
our discovery. Hey, so,
talking to doctors all day long in tend
455
00:29:17.930 --> 00:29:22.009
to fall into two buckets. Either
one, they're struggling to see enough patients
456
00:29:22.369 --> 00:29:25.440
or two, they're struggling to see
the right patients. which bucking do you
457
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.559
fall into? You right now?
Done, I have a problem agreeance within
458
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:34.279
the first question. Now everything else
we're going through is going to be tied
459
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:37.829
back to that problem, the impact
of that problem and what we're going to
460
00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:42.269
do about that problem. Right.
So that's why I like. I'm not
461
00:29:42.349 --> 00:29:45.269
a big believer in like. What
are your goals for the year? As
462
00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:48.710
I a starter, it's like,
why are we even talking right? So
463
00:29:48.869 --> 00:29:52.150
for Panda Doot, if you got
me on, why would I like?
464
00:29:52.309 --> 00:29:56.619
What are the two main reasons I
would even talk to you about your product?
465
00:29:56.579 --> 00:30:00.700
Expensive mistakes on documents or forecast and
accuracies. Okay, Kadi, I
466
00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.259
talk to VP's all day long.
They all seem to struggle with one one
467
00:30:04.339 --> 00:30:07.369
of three things when it comes to
this type of stuff. Either deals are
468
00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:11.529
taking too long to get signed and
so time kills all deals, they are
469
00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:15.849
for missing their forecast, or don't
even know what their forecast is because things
470
00:30:15.890 --> 00:30:18.049
are being reported up that aren't accurate
or black. Which one is your world
471
00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.440
right now? Okay, now,
right out the gate, you've established yourself
472
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.720
slightly as an authority. Like you
get my world. You know the pain
473
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.000
points I'm struggling with, and now
I've already yet I did. My forecast
474
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:34.079
are all over the place. Now
we can get into more discovery. Okay.
475
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.789
So, like, what's wrong?
What's happening there? What have you
476
00:30:37.829 --> 00:30:41.829
done to try to fix it?
Where's this going wrong? How are you
477
00:30:42.029 --> 00:30:48.829
able to now. We're building up
that problem with the now. Then we
478
00:30:48.950 --> 00:30:51.740
can move into the future. Stuff. Right, human beings, we don't
479
00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:53.500
really make moves for the future that
often like. We like to talk like
480
00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:56.500
we do, but we really don't. We make moves and things are wrong
481
00:30:57.180 --> 00:31:00.980
now. Right, the difference between
making more money and not having enough money,
482
00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:07.769
which one tends to motivate people more? Not Having it, not having
483
00:31:07.809 --> 00:31:10.890
enough? Right. And before people
listening to go like, Oh, like
484
00:31:11.049 --> 00:31:15.569
pain selling, I'm not talking about
pain selling, just talking about dissatisfaction with
485
00:31:15.769 --> 00:31:18.599
the now. If you can plant
doubt in the now, that's how you
486
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:23.680
make room for the future. Right. That's the key to really selling.
487
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.279
Well, if you can't just sell
them something new, you have to unsell
488
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.839
them on the now. That's a
really good exit point. But I do
489
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.190
want to give you an opportunity,
as we actually hear, if there is
490
00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:37.950
anything you want someone to take away
from this conversation. What would you say?
491
00:31:37.990 --> 00:31:42.430
That is I say. If there's
anything, I would say start studying
492
00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:49.259
psychology and communication and like buy or
behavior. Right, like a lot of
493
00:31:49.339 --> 00:31:52.420
the sales books out there are good. There's a lot of really good sales
494
00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:55.980
books out there, but they're all
coming down to a lot of the same
495
00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:01.849
things around messaging and people. If
you understand people better, if you understand
496
00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:07.250
what motivates people to make changes,
if you understand why people buy things,
497
00:32:07.450 --> 00:32:10.930
if you understand how people communicate and
how tone and language can affect it,
498
00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:16.079
that's a way bigger than going in
reading another sales book. Start studying people,
499
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.200
because you're selling to people. People
Buy Right, people buy for companies.
500
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.359
I've yet to have a company by
anything. It right. Right.
501
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:27.440
I just talked to the brick wall
out front with the logo. You know
502
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:29.440
I'm saying. Right, I just
tie, I just talk to the company,
503
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.829
because that's all a company is.
Companies are building in an LLC and
504
00:32:31.869 --> 00:32:37.230
even right now if I'm in a
building. People buy. Understand people better.
505
00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:40.390
Understand your prospects better. Right,
most I've talked about this before.
506
00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:44.819
I guess it will be the parting
advice. Go Talk to some customers,
507
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:47.619
please. Like most sales ups,
never talk to customers. The only talk
508
00:32:47.660 --> 00:32:52.859
to prospects and they wonder why they
can't get more prospects to be customers.
509
00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:55.779
Right. So go. If you're
listening to this, go to ceus.
510
00:32:57.220 --> 00:33:00.529
Ask them to talk to thirty customers. are going to ask them these questions.
511
00:33:00.250 --> 00:33:04.289
Why did you buy? What does
our product do for you? What
512
00:33:04.490 --> 00:33:07.849
problems were you hoping to solve with
our product? What's your favorite part about
513
00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:13.839
the product? What were you afraid
of before buying the product? What's changed
514
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.759
the most since having our product?
If you go get those six questions answered
515
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:22.799
by three forty customers, your scripting, your demo, your follow up will
516
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.829
get significantly better because you'll start to
describe the product the way your prospects and
517
00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:34.109
customers would describe your product. That
that if anyone does anything tactically from this,
518
00:33:34.470 --> 00:33:37.150
go do that, I promise you. Your Demo and everything gets better
519
00:33:37.190 --> 00:33:39.269
because you'll know the objections, you'll
know the buying process, you'll know how
520
00:33:39.349 --> 00:33:44.579
to describe your product better and what
problems they were actually trying to solve.
521
00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:47.579
That's the the cruxt of all of
it, and if you're listening, please
522
00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:51.380
rely that and write that down,
because I'm actually going to listen back this
523
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:55.089
take notes on the appreciate that Kitty
a minute. Really appreciate you being here
524
00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:58.650
today. Man, what's the best
way for people to connect with you right
525
00:33:58.690 --> 00:34:01.450
now? Online? Find me on
Linkedin. I don't have snap or Graham
526
00:34:01.490 --> 00:34:06.809
or twitter, any of that.
Just sign me on on Linkedin and I'll
527
00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:09.760
try to respond. There's Best I
can no. Tick Tock, no tick
528
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:13.199
tock, although I got some.
I'M gonna get on there. Dr Get,
529
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.639
I get throw some moves down on
tick tock, but don't know,
530
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.079
buddy, want to see that?
They don't need to see that. Side
531
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.519
will come up eventually. I'll get
you. Yeah, go a then.
532
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:23.789
All right, I appreciate you being
here, man. You have a good
533
00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:30.070
day. Youtube. Thanks for listening
to this episode of the Bab Gross Show.
534
00:34:30.590 --> 00:34:35.110
I'm your coast again forever, Patrick
Dance, the sales enablement trainer at
535
00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:38.099
Pandada. Please connect with me on
Linkedin to chat. I'm happy to answer
536
00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:43.179
any questions provide recommendations. I'm also
quite the dancer if you want a video.
537
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.820
If you like this episode or have
a question, join the discussion on
538
00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:51.219
Instagram at B Tob Gross show.
Thanks for tuning in and subscribing to the
539
00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:57.849
BDB Gros show. Until next time, sports, this episode is brought to
540
00:34:57.849 --> 00:35:01.210
you by Panda Doc sending your documents
is pds through email is super old school.
541
00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:06.010
It's time to while the socks off
your prospects. Clients and colleagues by
542
00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:09.000
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signing with Panda Doc. Go to panda
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00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:14.920
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