Transcript
WEBVTT
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These companies in these brands are they're
paying a lot of money for an influencer
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to put them on or to talk
about their product, but it's only a
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matter of time before these marketers start
going, wait a minute, why don't
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we build our own audience? Welcome
to the BBB gross show. I am
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your everliving cohost, Patrick downs,
and I am currently still the sales and
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emblement trainer at Panda Doc. Today
we're going to be talking about something that
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I'm really freaking excited about, and
it is BEDB sales promotion and media and
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how creativity is coming to the mix
and our modern age of social media and
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Linkedin. Today I enjoined by James
Carberry. I'm very excited to have them
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here. You probably know them if
you're on this network. James, wease
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introduce yourself and your own beautiful words. Yes, so I am, I
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guess, the executive producer of the
show. I guess it still feels weird
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calling myself something like that, but
I'm the founder of a company called sweetfish
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media. We produce a lot of
podcasts in the BB space. We're working
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with around a DVDB brands, mostly
BBS ass companies, and we're playing in
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this world a lot and really thinking
about creativity and media and how you can
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get the attention of your market,
and it looks a lot different than it
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did even five year years ago,
I think. So I'm really excited about
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this conversation. That's a good place
to start, James. How did the
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landscape book five years ago? Man, I think five years ago on the
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linkedin the bulk of the content on
Linkedin was it was links to outside articles.
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It was more long form content.
It lacked creativity because it didn't really
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need to be creative because there were
so few people creating content, at least
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on the linkedin platform. And so
as the platform has evolved and is really
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become a content platform and not just
a resume site anymore, it's you've seen
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a lot of player step into the
into the space, you being one of
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them. I stepped into it probably
about three years ago and started seeing enormous
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traction on my content getting, you
know, I would get over a hundred
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thousand views on a status update,
and it wasn't because I was great,
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it was because there were very few
people creating content on the platform and and
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Linkedin wanted people to stay on the
platform, and so if you want somebody
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to stay on your platform, you
have to put up to the surface the
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content that's getting the most engagement,
and so we kind of rode that wave
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and now we're seeing lots and lots
of people do the same thing, but
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my reach has has limited a little
bit, specifically on Linkedin. But I
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still think there's enormous opportunity for four
companies to get to capitalize on it,
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because it's yeah, there's just too
much opportunity to not be spending a significant
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amount of your week creating content for
that platform. And it can't be understated
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the amount of ratio get on Linkedin. You can look at somebody that has
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fiftyzero followers on Linkedin and it's getting
a hundred thousand viewas on their posts,
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hundreds of likes and comments, and
then you go look at their twitter and
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they got like a thousand followers and
like one or two likes for post and
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they're also posting there every day.
Yep, so they have the amount of
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rage because of how new the platform
is for content creators and how people are
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just now starting to take advantage of
it is insane. Yeah, so we
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just hired a director of audience growth
on our team. His name is day
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and Sanchez. He's been putting out
a lot of content on linked in the
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last couple weeks and he was at
a he was at a university prior to
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joining our team, and he was
like, James, I've had like social
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media job titles before. I've literally
been a professional social media person and I
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have never seen the kind of engagement, organic engagement, that I'm getting on
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this platform. Yet a post.
It was like its third or four post
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on Linkedin and it just happened like
last week. It was opposed to it
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on Sunday and it's got over three
hundred likes and I think it's probably got
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close to Twentyzero views on it.
And he was like, James, I've
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never seen anything like this before.
And it was in. I didn't pay
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a dime for it. I just
happened to figure out a topic that resonated
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and then he went in and engaged
with everybody that was engaging with it.
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He replied to every comment was it, which is a huge thing that we
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can talk more about later, but
by seeing when you see it, you're
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like, Oh, this is real, like this is powerful, and I'd
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be curious to hear kind of what
what your story was when you first started
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posting. Was it out of the
gate like, Oh man, this and
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engagement is crazy, or did it
take a little while for that to build?
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For you it was pretty high right
away compared to what you see when
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you first start on another social media
site. Right like when you first start
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posting on twitter, it feels like
you're screaming into a void, but with
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linkedin. I'd posted a couple things. I I'd get you a fifty to
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sixty likes on my first couple posts, which was crazy to me, and
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you know like tenzero views, yeah, which I did not understand at the
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time. I was like, am
I a genius? I don't, I
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don't know which I definitely wasn't.
But how did you feel that way?
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How did your company look at that? Was Panda Doc looking at that going
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we need to double down on this, like you need to be doing this
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more, or did they take the
approach that a lot of companies take?
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We see a lot of companies that, typically not in bb Sass, but
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like outside of bb Sass world,
where they like they try to start controlling
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what that person talks about on social
it's like oh it's got to be about
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the company. It's like, I'm
not going to get fifty thousand views on
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this post if it's about the company. Like that's that's not how to do
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it. But what was Pantodox's response? Really good. So the CRO immediately
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came to was like why are you
doing this? What are you doing?
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And I want to get more active
on there and he has already has a
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big audience from years of just collecting
followers not really posting. So he had
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me do a training with a couple
other people that were active at our company
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during our revenue kickoff and then I
actually have done another one since then for
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the whole revenue team and it's talked
about internally and we actually have, I
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think, like thirty to forty people
that post at least once a month within
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our company, which is really nice
now going from zero, you know,
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a year ago. Is there any
incentive? Is there any incentive for people
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to post more like it, whether
it's financial or like some internal award or
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anything like that, or is it
just kind of a hey, if you
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want to do this, do it. It's just me yelling at people every
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day going Yo, if you want
a job in five years. Get on
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Linkedin. You're not going to be
a PANTADOC forever and if you want opportunities
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to do stuff that you love,
get on there. Like I tell them
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all the time, I have these
side projects I'm working on now because of
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Linkedin that make me happy. Like
you can't even put a dollar figure on
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that. You guys need to get
on here. Yeah, and that's been
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the video stuff that you've been doing. Yeah, and like the five on
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Friday thing, where I started taking
for other people and doing a pitch and
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then for those people then critique that
pitch, and it's mostly other sales people.
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So we're trying to give people perspective, other peers and s of like
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some sales trainer that it's paid three
million dollars a year just to tell you
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suck. I think of that idea, though, is interesting to me,
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man, because you would alluded to
it earlier, but a lot of what
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makes people successful. I know we're
talking a lot about linkedin here, but
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that's where I spend a lot of
my time because it's where bulk of our
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opportunities come from for our business and
the creativity to think this five on Friday
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thing, like even the way you
named it is is interesting to me.
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It's catchy and and people go,
oh, that's an interesting take on on
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getting kind of peer driven feedback.
I want to do something in the next
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couple weeks almost like mean tweets.
So looking at pop culture and seeing,
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I think it was Jimmy Kimmel that
did mean tweets, I want to have
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VP's of marketing read their bad gtwo
reviews and and do like a mean tweets,
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like mean tweets, kind of spiff
on that. Ryan O'hare at lead
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Iq is a master of taking stuff
that's like happening in pop culture and morphing
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it into his content, and I
think it's super smart because you're riding the
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wave of something that's already popular.
You're just adapting it to to this platform,
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to the linkedin platform, and he
gets a lot of traction because of
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it. It's crazy. Yeah,
I mean the five on Friday thing isn't
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even really my idea. I do
make that clear. Yeah, I sort
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of like jumped on the bandwagon.
Franz La Bordeaux and Amy Quick and Patrick
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Choice. We all kind of started
together, but Francois came up with the
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name. You had pointed out like
how that sort of a marketing fine,
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which is great, and he even
said he does. He's like, I'd
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never want to monetize this. I
never want this to be something that like
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we're trying to do for money and
there's there was never like an end game
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for it. was always like yeah, I just want to see what happens.
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Yeah, I think it's important to
be constantly thinking through different series and
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different like five on Friday as one. Mean tweets or, you know,
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mean g two reviews is another one. Like I've got a list in my
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phone of just like all the different
types of content that you can create with
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the intent of being helpful to the
audience. So we've started recently doing a
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lot of linkedin decks. They're called
documents, which to me, I don't
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know, feels weird, but I
just call the Linkedin carousels or Linkedin decks,
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and we've been doing these highlighting different
people that we've interviewed on be to
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be growth or people that we know
have valuable content to share. And I
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did one on Crisp Walker. I
don't know if you've been following any of
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his content on Linkedin, but I
just basically went through his feed and was
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like man, looked at three of
his different posts and I had our creative
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director put a Linkedin deck together highlighting
three of his recent pieces of content.
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That really popped. So I knew
people already as innate with this content because
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he's got a ton of engagement,
and so I'm going to repackage it in
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this other format and then expose it
to my network. And it got like
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twenty three thousand views or something crazy
like that. We had an inbound opportunity
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come from it within two hours of
me posting it, and it's that's now
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an opportunity in our in our pipeline, and that looks like it's going to
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close in the next thirty days because
directly because of that deck. But that's
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just one that's just one thing we
want to do. Like I think you
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see a lot of people with media. They find something that works, they
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just beat it to death and they
don't think creatively. They don't try to
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think outside the box and think,
okay, what's the next series we're going
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to do or the next type of
content we're going to do, and because
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of that it just gets stale and
boring and people eventually tune you out.
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So yeah, you had you had
one that popped, you had a series
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that popped a couple times, but
you can't expect that to work a year
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from now like it works today.
You've got to constantly be iterating and thinking
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about new ideas. The reason I
think we were offline. We were talking
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a lot about corporate brow and what
corporate brow's done is he's he's added humor
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into the mix, and you and
I both are big fans of humor.
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Were working, we're working on a
video for the promotion of the sale series
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of BB growth, and I think
if you can be funny and make people
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laugh, that's a fantastic way to
keep an audience engaged, especially if it's
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new ideas and you're tying it to
pop culture, like I did a video
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series a few years ago called Gary
V. Want to be we did two
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episodes and it ended up, I
mean it got massive exposure for our business
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because it was me spooping on how
obsessed I am with Gary V and it
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resonated with a lot of people who, either whether you love Gary or you
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hate Gary, it's fun to laugh
at the person that's like overly obsessed with
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this, you know, marketing figure
in the in the or entrepreneurship figure.
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So, anyway, all that to
say, funny content plays, but you've
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got to constantly be thinking creatively about
what's the next thing, and that's why
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I love so much about what you're
doing. I'm appreciate the man and I
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got a question for you and a
preface it with some context. So,
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looking at media in general and social
media, there's always this fine line between
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a creativity and qualities or content and
then like the science aspect of it.
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And when it comes to social media, like the Algorithm. When you're looking
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at more traditional marketing, it's like
audiences and who are appealing to and what
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network we're on. So I'm seeing
a lot of the ladder where you're like,
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how can I optimize for the algorithm, like I'm going to have EMOJI's
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at the front of my post,
I'm going to have as much white space
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as possible in the Post, focusing
on next content because it gets most engagement,
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and just kind of doing that over
and over again and, like you
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said, it can get stale.
So how do we get to the point
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where quality content, the focus on
inside Er humor or some sort of new
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perspective is performing at that level,
and what influence do you think the quality
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and creativity actually has on engagement and
how people actually interact their content versus just
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tricking the Algorithm? Yeah, man, I can I can tell you that
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two years ago, maybe three years
ago, when I started really going heavy
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on Linkedin, there were a lot
of people talking about all those different things
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you just laid out, having a
really engaging opening line, making sure that
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you only we're doing one or two
sentences at a time before you did the
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paragraph break, and those things are
good to keep in mind. But if
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your content sucks, if what you're
saying is fluffy and doesn't actually add value
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or or help someone do something or
get better at work or make them laugh,
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that's the caveat. It's actually got
to help. It needs to help
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them get better at work, or
it needs to make them laugh or I've
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also seen like inspiring stuff do really
well but doesn't do one of those three
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things. You can do all of
the hacking of the Algorithm in the world
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and it doesn't it doesn't help.
Like we use a lot of engagement groups,
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and what engraaging groups are? They're
basically just message threads. You can
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create them yourself. I have people
ask me all the time like, Oh,
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can you invite me into your engagement
groups? I'm just like, start
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a message thread with ten people that
you already know, I can trust,
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that are putting out content on the
platform and a regular basis, and then
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just start sharing the links to your
content as you post it and start engaging
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with one another's content and adding that
early engagement helps. But even even using
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engagement groups, if you've got seven
or eight people that are engaging with it
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just because they're in your group and
they want to kind of do you a
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favor, linkedin is smart enough to
know that if your content isn't resonating with
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other people, it's not going to
give additional exposure to the content. So
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understanding how the Algorithm Works, I
think, is very, very important.
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The fact that I can go in
and have a post that's doing well and
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I go in and reply to every
comment and maybe it takes me twenty or
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thirty minutes to go and reply to
every comment. It's twenty or thirty comments.
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When I come back an hour later
and that post has three thou additional
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views, I know it's because I
went in and are replied to every comment,
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and so I continue to reply to
every comment. But if my content
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sucked, then it wouldn't really matter
I want. I wouldn't be getting very
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many comments and so there I wouldn't
have anything to reply to. But I
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say that to say that understanding the
algorithm and what what plays best on the
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platform is critical, but it's not
worth very much if your contents not actually
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good. One one algorithm thing that
I'll mention here that I see so many
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people poole messing up is putting links
inside, like though, either linked to
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a youtube video or their linked to
an outside article in their status update,
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and it drastically kills reach. I've
never heard anybody from linkedin say this.
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I would imagine it's because linkedin wants
people to stay on Linkedin. So if
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you're putting a link to an outside
article, linkedin's like no, we don't
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want to push people outside of our
platform. So if instead you just write
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like a two to three hundred word
post as a status update inside Linkedin,
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or even a even a shorter post, shorter posts do well too, but
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you can't trying to drive people outside
the platform. And so anytime we link
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to a blog post, anything like
that, I always put it in the
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first comment. And any video that
I want to show I always put that
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video. I upload the video natively
into Linkedin as opposed to, know,
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linking to a youtube video. So
unless you have the the only Pea,
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even folks like and Hanley and the
big names and bb marketing, even when
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they put links inside their updates,
it gets I mean for someone that has
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four hundred thousand followers, when you
see that they're getting two or three hundred
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likes, you you're like, Oh
man, like they must be doing something
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right. But it's like, man, if they if they posted it,
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just posted a native status update or
uploaded the video directly, and I said
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an earlier I think ends actually doing
it natively. But I see a lot
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of people with large follower accounts that
are not following these best practices and they're
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missing out on a ton of reach. Yeah, I mean you're right.
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Definitely needs to at least resonate with
people and I think it comes back to
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like even old marketing tactics where you
can apply to that to social media and
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get a huge broad reach if you
use broad content. But to counter your
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point a little bit, I see
really terrible content getting a lot of traction
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stuff that's just like a repurposed fake
story about like HR hiring or like those
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connection posts that are like what's connect
and has like three thousand likes and a
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thousand comments and it's just tricking the
algorithm. And then like that stuff is
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getting racis CEOP are getting thousands and
thousands of followers. So the stuff that
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I really love, that I want
to see more of is, yeah,
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video content. People like actually like
creating real videos that have intros and editing
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and people that are decent acting in
the videos, or at least people presenting
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ideas in a nice, clean visual
style. But you're not really seeing that.
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So I wanted to get into that
point about corporate brow where doing that
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with an edge. It's always something
I've been interested in and the fact that
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he's been able to do that and
see success amazing. But when do you
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think we can get to the point
where people inside of companies like Panadoc will
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be able to actually put that into
their marketing and represent their brand and more,
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not like an edgy way, but
a way that people might not see
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us professional classic? Yeah, I
don't know. I'm not not Tra Damas.
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So I can't say, you know, years or five years. I
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certainly know it's hard to when you
when you look at social media influencers and
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people that have reach and you have
now that bb brands are starting to get
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more and more into influencer marketing.
These companies in these brands are they're paying
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a lot of money for an influencer
to put them on or to talk about
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their product. But it's only a
matter of time before these marketers start going,
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wait a minute, why don't we
build our own audience and be able
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to reach our own audience with with
what we want to reach them with,
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whether it's promoting an event or what
have you? Why don't we just do
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that? And when they do that, they're going to look and say,
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okay, how did these people that
we were paying as influencers? How did
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they actually build the following that they
have? And I think they're going to
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see that what we've been talking about
today. These people are putting out content
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consistently and a lot of the influencers
out, especially outside of Linkedin, they're
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growing massive followings by being funny and
that's what you're seeing in corporate bro I'm
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seeing it with a with this guy
named nurse Blake in the nursing community.
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He's built an enormous following of over
a million followers across this platforms because he's
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doing these short little one minute funny
videos about being a nurse. Corporate brows
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done the same thing in sales.
There's a MEM account on instagram sales humor.
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It's done the same thing. So
I think being funny, I think
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you can be funny in a classy
way that doesn't make your brand look necessarily
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to edgy, but it makes you
look progressive. And I think if you
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just reverse engineer, like how do
the people that have followings, how did
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they get their following? If we
can go and and replicate that, not
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not the exact way they did it, but when you're standing like Oh,
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they made people laugh. We can
do that. We can go out and
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hire a comedic writer, we can
go and find actors like and these brands
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have the money to do it.
It's just a matter of that. I
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don't think they've sat back and and
look that. How do these people that
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have these enormous followings? How did
they actually get it? It wasn't magic
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that and they don't have tons of
add money to be putting behind their content.
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They did it because they just genuinely
made people laugh and I've noticed that
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even that content, like we put
out a lot of educational content, being
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on this podcast and on Linkedin,
and we're starting to make a big push
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toward more funny content, because I
just think funny content is going to reach
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a larger audience. More people want
to laugh, then want to be educated
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and and I think that you have
to take that for what it is and
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you have to lean into it if
you actually want to grow the audience that
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you want to grow. Yeah,
and the one comment on that is comedy
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by committee very rarely works too.
So I think if you are a brand
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and you are listening to this and
you hire someone or take someone from in
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your company that you think is funny, like trust that that person knows that
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they're doing and let them do what
you hire them to write. Don't go
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in and just like edit to death
and take everything out of it and make
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it not that person, because I
think what a lot of companies are missing
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is the reason personal branding is more
successful than company branding is because people want
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the personal and then if you try
to replicate that but then like rip out
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the soul. You're missing the point. Yep, though, the first person
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that does this successfully it's going to
be the person that just trust a community
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voice the other. Once that happen, it's a skill and it's and it's
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a skill that very few people have. I mean, we've tried hiring for
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it in the past and it's hard. Like just like your best salespeople are
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your best sales people because of skill
that they have, combined with training and
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resources they've they've learned from there's a
lot of skill involved as well, and
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I think it with being funny,
it's the exact same way. I was
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talking to a guy to wedding the
other day and here in Orlando and he
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has had multiple videos go viral.
I think he's got a video on youtube
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with like three million views or something
like that about millennials versus boomers, and
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I was talking to him about like
what goes into your process, like how
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do you he was like, honestly, me and it. I just know
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when we're jamming on an idea that's
going to resonate with people and that's going
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to make people laugh. He was
like, and people like try to push
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back against it and they try to
like change it, and every time I
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waiver from what my guts telling me
to do, the video performs significantly,
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like less, like less than I
know it would have had I just followed
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my gut and my instinct, and
that's hard to hear because you want there
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to be like a formula. I
think the harmon brothers have put out a
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course that I think tries to,
you know, turn what they've done with
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like the pooper ecommercials and like all
of their brilliant advertising that makes people cry
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on the fore laughing and they've sold
tons of product because of it. I
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think they've they're trying to teach like
hey, this is how we do it.
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But at the end of the day
it's a gift and when you there
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are things you can learn and get
better at and hone that gift. But
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if you got somebody on your team
that has it, like I just saw
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a video on Linkedin this morning actually, and it was a senior account executive
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that sales off. Did you see
that video about zoom personalities? No,
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like it had over. I guess
it was the part two. I don't
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I didn't see the part one,
but it was a part two and it
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was like zoom personalities part two.
It was a senior account executive. It
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sales offt and the Guy Looks,
you know, he looks great on camera
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and it was just a funny bit. It was a funny concept and that
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video probably took him, I don't
know, three or four hours to probably
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come up with the idea and the
concept and then moment. But it looked
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like a tick tock video almost,
like even the way that he had the
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captions on the video. And it
had, I mean it had over,
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I think, eight hundred and fifty
likes and and I don't know how many
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comments on it, and I would
imagine, based on the engagement that I'm
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seeing, hould imagine that that probably
has close to a hundred thousand views on
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Linkedin and the tagline next to his
name is senior account executive, it sales
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offt. You don't think that that
video being associated with sales off is good
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for sales lost business? Like they're
getting incredible exposure to the exact market.
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I mean Linkedin is full of salespeople
that in vpiece of sales that canotentially buy
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sales off, and so I love
that sales off didn't go in and say,
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nope, can't do that anymore.
They're like and I don't know what
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the story was behind that. I
don't know if they told him to do
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a part two or if he just
did it on his own, but they
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didn't stop him from doing it and
I think more and more companies that have
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talent like that within their four walls
they would be wise to kind of unleash
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them. So I'm glad you brought
that up, man, because it's a
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mistake to try to tame or rain
and that kind of talent. Just going
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to let it ride and I think
that's a good point to end on.
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I just want to kind of put
a period on it by saying with that
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sort of content, I feel like
be tob sales people are going to be
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like a huge player in the future
of marketing because you see, like what
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that guy did, with like his
Webcam and probably really like an hour at
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most and just like in front of
his computer, with probably no script,
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probably gained more exposure to sales laft
than any piece of like blog content or
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Webin or that took websites to pull
off, maybe even ads they bought.
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It probably perform better than like paid
advertising, and this is a guy who
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just did that for free and as
spare time. That sells for your company.
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So, like, I think people
need to really recognize that and go,
377
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okay, maybe we need to shift
the way we think about marketing.
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Yep, skills that we classically associate
Yep, I think. I think if
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you can educate, if you can
inspire or if you can make somebody laugh,
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that's where you need to be thinking
about creating. You need to be
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creating content that inspires people, that
makes them laugh or that educates them.
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And from what I've seen, the
funny stuff outperforms all the other things.
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I don't think you should just be
doing funny if you're a brand, but
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it's certainly going to get you a
bigger lift than the educational content is going
385
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:45.119
to get you. But the educational
content should still be done because it's what's
386
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.150
going to really establish thought leadership.
But those are the three things. So
387
00:26:49.269 --> 00:26:53.230
to boil down this this idea and
what I really hope folks walk away with
388
00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:57.390
from this is going and is our
content inspiring, is it educational or is
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00:26:57.430 --> 00:27:00.619
it funny? And if it's not
checking one of those boxes, need to
390
00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:04.299
rethink how you're doing content. That
was amazing, damps, there's a reason
391
00:27:04.579 --> 00:27:07.500
you get paid what you do.
I don't know what it is. I
392
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.420
imagine it's a lot and if it's
not, you should be paid more.
393
00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:15.500
Either way. You've been listening to
the BB gross show again. I am
394
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.769
Hattrick down sells name. When trying
our panack you can find on Linkedin.
395
00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:21.930
James Worre Pew work. Can people
find you on the Internet? Yeah,
396
00:27:22.049 --> 00:27:25.970
so linkedin. Obviously I'm I'm a
huge fan of Linkedin. I'm on it
397
00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:30.559
all the time. My email to
is James at sweetfish Mediacom so I've been
398
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.519
talking about anything that you want to
email me about. Pretty email me there.
399
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:36.000
And then I had a book come
out earlier this year, so you
400
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.559
can find it on Amazon or audible
if you prefer listening to books like I
401
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:42.640
do. It's content based networking.
If you listen to the show you know
402
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.990
all about it already. So I
don't even really know why I just said
403
00:27:45.029 --> 00:27:48.470
that, but I did anyway.
So that's me. I still need a
404
00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:52.910
ranger buck, James. I go
by that today. Also, please send
405
00:27:52.950 --> 00:27:56.109
me Fan Mail. I haven't gotten
any fan mail and I'm starting to get
406
00:27:56.269 --> 00:28:00.619
hurt. So if you want my
address, just paying me. I'm not
407
00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:03.539
going to say it on air like
a psychopath, but if you want to
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00:28:03.579 --> 00:28:07.059
send me some candys or something,
please do it anyways. Thanks again,
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00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:12.450
guys. Thanks for listening and we
will see you next time. This episode
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00:28:12.529 --> 00:28:17.130
is brought to you by Panda Doc. Sending your documents is pds through email
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