June 23, 2020

#Sales 5: Your LinkedIn Posts Aren’t Funny Enough w/ James Carbary

LinkedIn content still sucks. 

That’s a good thing. You can use that — the bar is still low and the noise isn’t yet deafening.

And the best way to take advantage of this? 

Be funny.

In this episode, Co-Host Patrick Downs interviews James Carbary, Founder of Sweet Fish Media and Author of Content-Based Networking to find out why LinkedIn has a giant content-shaped hole…

And you can fill that hole with comedy. 

(Note: This also works for parental-affection-shaped holes, but that’s beyond the scope of this episode.)

James covered:

  • Why LinkedIn’s dearth of content is good news for you
  • Why those who can’t teach need to be funny
  • Why brands need to stop chasing influencers and create their own content-following

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to the B2B Growth Show on Apple Podcasts, on our website, or on Spotify.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:09.429 These companies in these brands are they're paying a lot of money for an influencer 2 00:00:10.070 --> 00:00:15.230 to put them on or to talk about their product, but it's only a 3 00:00:15.230 --> 00:00:18.949 matter of time before these marketers start going, wait a minute, why don't 4 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:24.579 we build our own audience? Welcome to the BBB gross show. I am 5 00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:29.339 your everliving cohost, Patrick downs, and I am currently still the sales and 6 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:33.780 emblement trainer at Panda Doc. Today we're going to be talking about something that 7 00:00:33.820 --> 00:00:38.969 I'm really freaking excited about, and it is BEDB sales promotion and media and 8 00:00:39.369 --> 00:00:43.890 how creativity is coming to the mix and our modern age of social media and 9 00:00:43.929 --> 00:00:49.609 Linkedin. Today I enjoined by James Carberry. I'm very excited to have them 10 00:00:49.609 --> 00:00:52.000 here. You probably know them if you're on this network. James, wease 11 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:56.000 introduce yourself and your own beautiful words. Yes, so I am, I 12 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:59.960 guess, the executive producer of the show. I guess it still feels weird 13 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.880 calling myself something like that, but I'm the founder of a company called sweetfish 14 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.750 media. We produce a lot of podcasts in the BB space. We're working 15 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:12.709 with around a DVDB brands, mostly BBS ass companies, and we're playing in 16 00:01:12.790 --> 00:01:19.019 this world a lot and really thinking about creativity and media and how you can 17 00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:23.299 get the attention of your market, and it looks a lot different than it 18 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:27.459 did even five year years ago, I think. So I'm really excited about 19 00:01:27.459 --> 00:01:32.180 this conversation. That's a good place to start, James. How did the 20 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:38.010 landscape book five years ago? Man, I think five years ago on the 21 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:45.129 linkedin the bulk of the content on Linkedin was it was links to outside articles. 22 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:51.840 It was more long form content. It lacked creativity because it didn't really 23 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:56.640 need to be creative because there were so few people creating content, at least 24 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:01.069 on the linkedin platform. And so as the platform has evolved and is really 25 00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:07.549 become a content platform and not just a resume site anymore, it's you've seen 26 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:10.150 a lot of player step into the into the space, you being one of 27 00:02:10.229 --> 00:02:15.620 them. I stepped into it probably about three years ago and started seeing enormous 28 00:02:15.699 --> 00:02:20.580 traction on my content getting, you know, I would get over a hundred 29 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:23.539 thousand views on a status update, and it wasn't because I was great, 30 00:02:24.060 --> 00:02:28.659 it was because there were very few people creating content on the platform and and 31 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:32.409 Linkedin wanted people to stay on the platform, and so if you want somebody 32 00:02:32.409 --> 00:02:37.250 to stay on your platform, you have to put up to the surface the 33 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:40.650 content that's getting the most engagement, and so we kind of rode that wave 34 00:02:40.969 --> 00:02:46.280 and now we're seeing lots and lots of people do the same thing, but 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.080 my reach has has limited a little bit, specifically on Linkedin. But I 36 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:55.479 still think there's enormous opportunity for four companies to get to capitalize on it, 37 00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:00.629 because it's yeah, there's just too much opportunity to not be spending a significant 38 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:07.270 amount of your week creating content for that platform. And it can't be understated 39 00:03:07.310 --> 00:03:10.949 the amount of ratio get on Linkedin. You can look at somebody that has 40 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:15.780 fiftyzero followers on Linkedin and it's getting a hundred thousand viewas on their posts, 41 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:17.580 hundreds of likes and comments, and then you go look at their twitter and 42 00:03:17.620 --> 00:03:22.460 they got like a thousand followers and like one or two likes for post and 43 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:24.500 they're also posting there every day. Yep, so they have the amount of 44 00:03:24.580 --> 00:03:29.729 rage because of how new the platform is for content creators and how people are 45 00:03:29.810 --> 00:03:32.250 just now starting to take advantage of it is insane. Yeah, so we 46 00:03:32.409 --> 00:03:36.969 just hired a director of audience growth on our team. His name is day 47 00:03:36.969 --> 00:03:38.889 and Sanchez. He's been putting out a lot of content on linked in the 48 00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:44.159 last couple weeks and he was at a he was at a university prior to 49 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.400 joining our team, and he was like, James, I've had like social 50 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:52.639 media job titles before. I've literally been a professional social media person and I 51 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:58.789 have never seen the kind of engagement, organic engagement, that I'm getting on 52 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:01.069 this platform. Yet a post. It was like its third or four post 53 00:04:01.229 --> 00:04:04.750 on Linkedin and it just happened like last week. It was opposed to it 54 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:09.509 on Sunday and it's got over three hundred likes and I think it's probably got 55 00:04:09.590 --> 00:04:12.780 close to Twentyzero views on it. And he was like, James, I've 56 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:15.579 never seen anything like this before. And it was in. I didn't pay 57 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:20.100 a dime for it. I just happened to figure out a topic that resonated 58 00:04:20.420 --> 00:04:24.649 and then he went in and engaged with everybody that was engaging with it. 59 00:04:24.850 --> 00:04:27.810 He replied to every comment was it, which is a huge thing that we 60 00:04:27.889 --> 00:04:31.050 can talk more about later, but by seeing when you see it, you're 61 00:04:31.089 --> 00:04:35.529 like, Oh, this is real, like this is powerful, and I'd 62 00:04:35.529 --> 00:04:40.560 be curious to hear kind of what what your story was when you first started 63 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.360 posting. Was it out of the gate like, Oh man, this and 64 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.160 engagement is crazy, or did it take a little while for that to build? 65 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.920 For you it was pretty high right away compared to what you see when 66 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.589 you first start on another social media site. Right like when you first start 67 00:04:53.629 --> 00:04:57.230 posting on twitter, it feels like you're screaming into a void, but with 68 00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.629 linkedin. I'd posted a couple things. I I'd get you a fifty to 69 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:02.990 sixty likes on my first couple posts, which was crazy to me, and 70 00:05:03.149 --> 00:05:06.660 you know like tenzero views, yeah, which I did not understand at the 71 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:09.779 time. I was like, am I a genius? I don't, I 72 00:05:09.860 --> 00:05:14.139 don't know which I definitely wasn't. But how did you feel that way? 73 00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:17.740 How did your company look at that? Was Panda Doc looking at that going 74 00:05:18.019 --> 00:05:20.339 we need to double down on this, like you need to be doing this 75 00:05:20.529 --> 00:05:25.490 more, or did they take the approach that a lot of companies take? 76 00:05:25.689 --> 00:05:29.970 We see a lot of companies that, typically not in bb Sass, but 77 00:05:30.089 --> 00:05:33.730 like outside of bb Sass world, where they like they try to start controlling 78 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:36.639 what that person talks about on social it's like oh it's got to be about 79 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.600 the company. It's like, I'm not going to get fifty thousand views on 80 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.720 this post if it's about the company. Like that's that's not how to do 81 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:48.240 it. But what was Pantodox's response? Really good. So the CRO immediately 82 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:50.430 came to was like why are you doing this? What are you doing? 83 00:05:50.629 --> 00:05:54.149 And I want to get more active on there and he has already has a 84 00:05:54.189 --> 00:05:58.550 big audience from years of just collecting followers not really posting. So he had 85 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:01.389 me do a training with a couple other people that were active at our company 86 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:06.339 during our revenue kickoff and then I actually have done another one since then for 87 00:06:06.459 --> 00:06:10.899 the whole revenue team and it's talked about internally and we actually have, I 88 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:15.100 think, like thirty to forty people that post at least once a month within 89 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.689 our company, which is really nice now going from zero, you know, 90 00:06:17.850 --> 00:06:23.209 a year ago. Is there any incentive? Is there any incentive for people 91 00:06:23.209 --> 00:06:27.689 to post more like it, whether it's financial or like some internal award or 92 00:06:27.730 --> 00:06:30.089 anything like that, or is it just kind of a hey, if you 93 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:32.839 want to do this, do it. It's just me yelling at people every 94 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.079 day going Yo, if you want a job in five years. Get on 95 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:41.000 Linkedin. You're not going to be a PANTADOC forever and if you want opportunities 96 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.519 to do stuff that you love, get on there. Like I tell them 97 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.480 all the time, I have these side projects I'm working on now because of 98 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.069 Linkedin that make me happy. Like you can't even put a dollar figure on 99 00:06:49.189 --> 00:06:53.350 that. You guys need to get on here. Yeah, and that's been 100 00:06:53.430 --> 00:06:56.350 the video stuff that you've been doing. Yeah, and like the five on 101 00:06:56.470 --> 00:07:00.459 Friday thing, where I started taking for other people and doing a pitch and 102 00:07:00.579 --> 00:07:05.259 then for those people then critique that pitch, and it's mostly other sales people. 103 00:07:05.300 --> 00:07:09.540 So we're trying to give people perspective, other peers and s of like 104 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:12.819 some sales trainer that it's paid three million dollars a year just to tell you 105 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:16.689 suck. I think of that idea, though, is interesting to me, 106 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:20.649 man, because you would alluded to it earlier, but a lot of what 107 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:25.290 makes people successful. I know we're talking a lot about linkedin here, but 108 00:07:25.329 --> 00:07:28.410 that's where I spend a lot of my time because it's where bulk of our 109 00:07:28.410 --> 00:07:33.680 opportunities come from for our business and the creativity to think this five on Friday 110 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:38.879 thing, like even the way you named it is is interesting to me. 111 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.079 It's catchy and and people go, oh, that's an interesting take on on 112 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.629 getting kind of peer driven feedback. I want to do something in the next 113 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:51.750 couple weeks almost like mean tweets. So looking at pop culture and seeing, 114 00:07:53.189 --> 00:07:56.230 I think it was Jimmy Kimmel that did mean tweets, I want to have 115 00:07:56.550 --> 00:08:01.899 VP's of marketing read their bad gtwo reviews and and do like a mean tweets, 116 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:07.379 like mean tweets, kind of spiff on that. Ryan O'hare at lead 117 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:13.810 Iq is a master of taking stuff that's like happening in pop culture and morphing 118 00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:18.449 it into his content, and I think it's super smart because you're riding the 119 00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:24.889 wave of something that's already popular. You're just adapting it to to this platform, 120 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:26.879 to the linkedin platform, and he gets a lot of traction because of 121 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.839 it. It's crazy. Yeah, I mean the five on Friday thing isn't 122 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.360 even really my idea. I do make that clear. Yeah, I sort 123 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.759 of like jumped on the bandwagon. Franz La Bordeaux and Amy Quick and Patrick 124 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.549 Choice. We all kind of started together, but Francois came up with the 125 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:48.309 name. You had pointed out like how that sort of a marketing fine, 126 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:50.110 which is great, and he even said he does. He's like, I'd 127 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:54.509 never want to monetize this. I never want this to be something that like 128 00:08:54.629 --> 00:08:56.700 we're trying to do for money and there's there was never like an end game 129 00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:00.820 for it. was always like yeah, I just want to see what happens. 130 00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:05.740 Yeah, I think it's important to be constantly thinking through different series and 131 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:09.620 different like five on Friday as one. Mean tweets or, you know, 132 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.409 mean g two reviews is another one. Like I've got a list in my 133 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:18.450 phone of just like all the different types of content that you can create with 134 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:22.289 the intent of being helpful to the audience. So we've started recently doing a 135 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:26.399 lot of linkedin decks. They're called documents, which to me, I don't 136 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:31.279 know, feels weird, but I just call the Linkedin carousels or Linkedin decks, 137 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:37.440 and we've been doing these highlighting different people that we've interviewed on be to 138 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.870 be growth or people that we know have valuable content to share. And I 139 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.309 did one on Crisp Walker. I don't know if you've been following any of 140 00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:48.750 his content on Linkedin, but I just basically went through his feed and was 141 00:09:48.789 --> 00:09:52.220 like man, looked at three of his different posts and I had our creative 142 00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:58.139 director put a Linkedin deck together highlighting three of his recent pieces of content. 143 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:01.139 That really popped. So I knew people already as innate with this content because 144 00:10:01.179 --> 00:10:05.059 he's got a ton of engagement, and so I'm going to repackage it in 145 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:09.450 this other format and then expose it to my network. And it got like 146 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:15.250 twenty three thousand views or something crazy like that. We had an inbound opportunity 147 00:10:15.289 --> 00:10:20.289 come from it within two hours of me posting it, and it's that's now 148 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:22.919 an opportunity in our in our pipeline, and that looks like it's going to 149 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:30.120 close in the next thirty days because directly because of that deck. But that's 150 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.799 just one that's just one thing we want to do. Like I think you 151 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.389 see a lot of people with media. They find something that works, they 152 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:41.830 just beat it to death and they don't think creatively. They don't try to 153 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:45.389 think outside the box and think, okay, what's the next series we're going 154 00:10:45.389 --> 00:10:48.309 to do or the next type of content we're going to do, and because 155 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:52.620 of that it just gets stale and boring and people eventually tune you out. 156 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:56.340 So yeah, you had you had one that popped, you had a series 157 00:10:56.419 --> 00:11:01.220 that popped a couple times, but you can't expect that to work a year 158 00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:05.409 from now like it works today. You've got to constantly be iterating and thinking 159 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.210 about new ideas. The reason I think we were offline. We were talking 160 00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:13.929 a lot about corporate brow and what corporate brow's done is he's he's added humor 161 00:11:15.049 --> 00:11:18.330 into the mix, and you and I both are big fans of humor. 162 00:11:18.370 --> 00:11:22.120 Were working, we're working on a video for the promotion of the sale series 163 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.399 of BB growth, and I think if you can be funny and make people 164 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:30.919 laugh, that's a fantastic way to keep an audience engaged, especially if it's 165 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.950 new ideas and you're tying it to pop culture, like I did a video 166 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:37.190 series a few years ago called Gary V. Want to be we did two 167 00:11:37.230 --> 00:11:41.429 episodes and it ended up, I mean it got massive exposure for our business 168 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:46.659 because it was me spooping on how obsessed I am with Gary V and it 169 00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:50.340 resonated with a lot of people who, either whether you love Gary or you 170 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:54.899 hate Gary, it's fun to laugh at the person that's like overly obsessed with 171 00:11:56.299 --> 00:12:00.899 this, you know, marketing figure in the in the or entrepreneurship figure. 172 00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:05.529 So, anyway, all that to say, funny content plays, but you've 173 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.850 got to constantly be thinking creatively about what's the next thing, and that's why 174 00:12:09.850 --> 00:12:13.169 I love so much about what you're doing. I'm appreciate the man and I 175 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:16.759 got a question for you and a preface it with some context. So, 176 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:22.279 looking at media in general and social media, there's always this fine line between 177 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.519 a creativity and qualities or content and then like the science aspect of it. 178 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:28.039 And when it comes to social media, like the Algorithm. When you're looking 179 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.350 at more traditional marketing, it's like audiences and who are appealing to and what 180 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:39.710 network we're on. So I'm seeing a lot of the ladder where you're like, 181 00:12:39.789 --> 00:12:43.070 how can I optimize for the algorithm, like I'm going to have EMOJI's 182 00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:46.100 at the front of my post, I'm going to have as much white space 183 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:48.460 as possible in the Post, focusing on next content because it gets most engagement, 184 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:52.620 and just kind of doing that over and over again and, like you 185 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:56.460 said, it can get stale. So how do we get to the point 186 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:01.009 where quality content, the focus on inside Er humor or some sort of new 187 00:13:01.090 --> 00:13:05.490 perspective is performing at that level, and what influence do you think the quality 188 00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:11.730 and creativity actually has on engagement and how people actually interact their content versus just 189 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.120 tricking the Algorithm? Yeah, man, I can I can tell you that 190 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.679 two years ago, maybe three years ago, when I started really going heavy 191 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.549 on Linkedin, there were a lot of people talking about all those different things 192 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:31.870 you just laid out, having a really engaging opening line, making sure that 193 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.750 you only we're doing one or two sentences at a time before you did the 194 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:39.789 paragraph break, and those things are good to keep in mind. But if 195 00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:43.580 your content sucks, if what you're saying is fluffy and doesn't actually add value 196 00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:50.059 or or help someone do something or get better at work or make them laugh, 197 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:52.139 that's the caveat. It's actually got to help. It needs to help 198 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:56.250 them get better at work, or it needs to make them laugh or I've 199 00:13:56.289 --> 00:14:01.289 also seen like inspiring stuff do really well but doesn't do one of those three 200 00:14:01.330 --> 00:14:05.250 things. You can do all of the hacking of the Algorithm in the world 201 00:14:05.409 --> 00:14:09.440 and it doesn't it doesn't help. Like we use a lot of engagement groups, 202 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.240 and what engraaging groups are? They're basically just message threads. You can 203 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.679 create them yourself. I have people ask me all the time like, Oh, 204 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.559 can you invite me into your engagement groups? I'm just like, start 205 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.639 a message thread with ten people that you already know, I can trust, 206 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.269 that are putting out content on the platform and a regular basis, and then 207 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:31.389 just start sharing the links to your content as you post it and start engaging 208 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.230 with one another's content and adding that early engagement helps. But even even using 209 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:39.740 engagement groups, if you've got seven or eight people that are engaging with it 210 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:43.779 just because they're in your group and they want to kind of do you a 211 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:48.100 favor, linkedin is smart enough to know that if your content isn't resonating with 212 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:52.580 other people, it's not going to give additional exposure to the content. So 213 00:14:52.289 --> 00:14:56.809 understanding how the Algorithm Works, I think, is very, very important. 214 00:14:56.970 --> 00:15:01.049 The fact that I can go in and have a post that's doing well and 215 00:15:01.169 --> 00:15:03.889 I go in and reply to every comment and maybe it takes me twenty or 216 00:15:03.929 --> 00:15:07.840 thirty minutes to go and reply to every comment. It's twenty or thirty comments. 217 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.639 When I come back an hour later and that post has three thou additional 218 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:16.000 views, I know it's because I went in and are replied to every comment, 219 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.960 and so I continue to reply to every comment. But if my content 220 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.830 sucked, then it wouldn't really matter I want. I wouldn't be getting very 221 00:15:24.870 --> 00:15:28.190 many comments and so there I wouldn't have anything to reply to. But I 222 00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:33.950 say that to say that understanding the algorithm and what what plays best on the 223 00:15:33.990 --> 00:15:37.860 platform is critical, but it's not worth very much if your contents not actually 224 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:43.580 good. One one algorithm thing that I'll mention here that I see so many 225 00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:48.179 people poole messing up is putting links inside, like though, either linked to 226 00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:52.929 a youtube video or their linked to an outside article in their status update, 227 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:56.490 and it drastically kills reach. I've never heard anybody from linkedin say this. 228 00:15:56.570 --> 00:16:00.490 I would imagine it's because linkedin wants people to stay on Linkedin. So if 229 00:16:00.570 --> 00:16:03.720 you're putting a link to an outside article, linkedin's like no, we don't 230 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:08.440 want to push people outside of our platform. So if instead you just write 231 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:14.279 like a two to three hundred word post as a status update inside Linkedin, 232 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:18.200 or even a even a shorter post, shorter posts do well too, but 233 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.309 you can't trying to drive people outside the platform. And so anytime we link 234 00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:26.190 to a blog post, anything like that, I always put it in the 235 00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:30.389 first comment. And any video that I want to show I always put that 236 00:16:30.549 --> 00:16:36.059 video. I upload the video natively into Linkedin as opposed to, know, 237 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:40.620 linking to a youtube video. So unless you have the the only Pea, 238 00:16:40.779 --> 00:16:45.460 even folks like and Hanley and the big names and bb marketing, even when 239 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:52.009 they put links inside their updates, it gets I mean for someone that has 240 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:56.129 four hundred thousand followers, when you see that they're getting two or three hundred 241 00:16:56.169 --> 00:16:57.809 likes, you you're like, Oh man, like they must be doing something 242 00:16:57.889 --> 00:17:00.409 right. But it's like, man, if they if they posted it, 243 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:06.319 just posted a native status update or uploaded the video directly, and I said 244 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:11.079 an earlier I think ends actually doing it natively. But I see a lot 245 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.869 of people with large follower accounts that are not following these best practices and they're 246 00:17:15.869 --> 00:17:18.230 missing out on a ton of reach. Yeah, I mean you're right. 247 00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:22.789 Definitely needs to at least resonate with people and I think it comes back to 248 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:26.910 like even old marketing tactics where you can apply to that to social media and 249 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:30.940 get a huge broad reach if you use broad content. But to counter your 250 00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:36.539 point a little bit, I see really terrible content getting a lot of traction 251 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:41.819 stuff that's just like a repurposed fake story about like HR hiring or like those 252 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:45.529 connection posts that are like what's connect and has like three thousand likes and a 253 00:17:45.650 --> 00:17:49.490 thousand comments and it's just tricking the algorithm. And then like that stuff is 254 00:17:49.529 --> 00:17:53.210 getting racis CEOP are getting thousands and thousands of followers. So the stuff that 255 00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:56.410 I really love, that I want to see more of is, yeah, 256 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:00.720 video content. People like actually like creating real videos that have intros and editing 257 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:06.160 and people that are decent acting in the videos, or at least people presenting 258 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.359 ideas in a nice, clean visual style. But you're not really seeing that. 259 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.349 So I wanted to get into that point about corporate brow where doing that 260 00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:17.950 with an edge. It's always something I've been interested in and the fact that 261 00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:21.069 he's been able to do that and see success amazing. But when do you 262 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:25.269 think we can get to the point where people inside of companies like Panadoc will 263 00:18:25.269 --> 00:18:29.339 be able to actually put that into their marketing and represent their brand and more, 264 00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:32.259 not like an edgy way, but a way that people might not see 265 00:18:32.259 --> 00:18:36.140 us professional classic? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not not Tra Damas. 266 00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:38.380 So I can't say, you know, years or five years. I 267 00:18:40.059 --> 00:18:45.450 certainly know it's hard to when you when you look at social media influencers and 268 00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:48.450 people that have reach and you have now that bb brands are starting to get 269 00:18:48.490 --> 00:18:53.930 more and more into influencer marketing. These companies in these brands are they're paying 270 00:18:53.970 --> 00:19:00.039 a lot of money for an influencer to put them on or to talk about 271 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.559 their product. But it's only a matter of time before these marketers start going, 272 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:10.910 wait a minute, why don't we build our own audience and be able 273 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:14.710 to reach our own audience with with what we want to reach them with, 274 00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:18.630 whether it's promoting an event or what have you? Why don't we just do 275 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:21.190 that? And when they do that, they're going to look and say, 276 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:23.619 okay, how did these people that we were paying as influencers? How did 277 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:27.380 they actually build the following that they have? And I think they're going to 278 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:32.259 see that what we've been talking about today. These people are putting out content 279 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:37.980 consistently and a lot of the influencers out, especially outside of Linkedin, they're 280 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.609 growing massive followings by being funny and that's what you're seeing in corporate bro I'm 281 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:45.369 seeing it with a with this guy named nurse Blake in the nursing community. 282 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:51.849 He's built an enormous following of over a million followers across this platforms because he's 283 00:19:51.890 --> 00:19:56.799 doing these short little one minute funny videos about being a nurse. Corporate brows 284 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.319 done the same thing in sales. There's a MEM account on instagram sales humor. 285 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.160 It's done the same thing. So I think being funny, I think 286 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:11.309 you can be funny in a classy way that doesn't make your brand look necessarily 287 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.230 to edgy, but it makes you look progressive. And I think if you 288 00:20:15.269 --> 00:20:18.630 just reverse engineer, like how do the people that have followings, how did 289 00:20:18.670 --> 00:20:22.859 they get their following? If we can go and and replicate that, not 290 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:26.339 not the exact way they did it, but when you're standing like Oh, 291 00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:29.660 they made people laugh. We can do that. We can go out and 292 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:33.460 hire a comedic writer, we can go and find actors like and these brands 293 00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:37.329 have the money to do it. It's just a matter of that. I 294 00:20:37.450 --> 00:20:40.970 don't think they've sat back and and look that. How do these people that 295 00:20:41.009 --> 00:20:44.329 have these enormous followings? How did they actually get it? It wasn't magic 296 00:20:44.930 --> 00:20:48.930 that and they don't have tons of add money to be putting behind their content. 297 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:52.559 They did it because they just genuinely made people laugh and I've noticed that 298 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.440 even that content, like we put out a lot of educational content, being 299 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.039 on this podcast and on Linkedin, and we're starting to make a big push 300 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:07.230 toward more funny content, because I just think funny content is going to reach 301 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:11.029 a larger audience. More people want to laugh, then want to be educated 302 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:15.029 and and I think that you have to take that for what it is and 303 00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:18.220 you have to lean into it if you actually want to grow the audience that 304 00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:22.579 you want to grow. Yeah, and the one comment on that is comedy 305 00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:27.299 by committee very rarely works too. So I think if you are a brand 306 00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:32.619 and you are listening to this and you hire someone or take someone from in 307 00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:36.170 your company that you think is funny, like trust that that person knows that 308 00:21:36.250 --> 00:21:40.529 they're doing and let them do what you hire them to write. Don't go 309 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:44.410 in and just like edit to death and take everything out of it and make 310 00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:47.599 it not that person, because I think what a lot of companies are missing 311 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:52.519 is the reason personal branding is more successful than company branding is because people want 312 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.359 the personal and then if you try to replicate that but then like rip out 313 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.599 the soul. You're missing the point. Yep, though, the first person 314 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.950 that does this successfully it's going to be the person that just trust a community 315 00:22:02.990 --> 00:22:06.430 voice the other. Once that happen, it's a skill and it's and it's 316 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:08.950 a skill that very few people have. I mean, we've tried hiring for 317 00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:15.259 it in the past and it's hard. Like just like your best salespeople are 318 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:21.619 your best sales people because of skill that they have, combined with training and 319 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:26.579 resources they've they've learned from there's a lot of skill involved as well, and 320 00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:30.410 I think it with being funny, it's the exact same way. I was 321 00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:34.089 talking to a guy to wedding the other day and here in Orlando and he 322 00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:37.849 has had multiple videos go viral. I think he's got a video on youtube 323 00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:44.289 with like three million views or something like that about millennials versus boomers, and 324 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.680 I was talking to him about like what goes into your process, like how 325 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:49.440 do you he was like, honestly, me and it. I just know 326 00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:53.519 when we're jamming on an idea that's going to resonate with people and that's going 327 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.240 to make people laugh. He was like, and people like try to push 328 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.349 back against it and they try to like change it, and every time I 329 00:23:00.190 --> 00:23:04.509 waiver from what my guts telling me to do, the video performs significantly, 330 00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:08.990 like less, like less than I know it would have had I just followed 331 00:23:10.029 --> 00:23:12.380 my gut and my instinct, and that's hard to hear because you want there 332 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:15.660 to be like a formula. I think the harmon brothers have put out a 333 00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:21.380 course that I think tries to, you know, turn what they've done with 334 00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:26.940 like the pooper ecommercials and like all of their brilliant advertising that makes people cry 335 00:23:26.059 --> 00:23:30.769 on the fore laughing and they've sold tons of product because of it. I 336 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:33.970 think they've they're trying to teach like hey, this is how we do it. 337 00:23:34.609 --> 00:23:38.450 But at the end of the day it's a gift and when you there 338 00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:42.279 are things you can learn and get better at and hone that gift. But 339 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.640 if you got somebody on your team that has it, like I just saw 340 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:51.720 a video on Linkedin this morning actually, and it was a senior account executive 341 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:55.400 that sales off. Did you see that video about zoom personalities? No, 342 00:23:56.109 --> 00:23:57.990 like it had over. I guess it was the part two. I don't 343 00:23:57.990 --> 00:24:00.109 I didn't see the part one, but it was a part two and it 344 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.910 was like zoom personalities part two. It was a senior account executive. It 345 00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:07.630 sales offt and the Guy Looks, you know, he looks great on camera 346 00:24:08.109 --> 00:24:11.660 and it was just a funny bit. It was a funny concept and that 347 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:17.059 video probably took him, I don't know, three or four hours to probably 348 00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:18.700 come up with the idea and the concept and then moment. But it looked 349 00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:22.940 like a tick tock video almost, like even the way that he had the 350 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:25.849 captions on the video. And it had, I mean it had over, 351 00:24:26.130 --> 00:24:29.849 I think, eight hundred and fifty likes and and I don't know how many 352 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:33.490 comments on it, and I would imagine, based on the engagement that I'm 353 00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:37.450 seeing, hould imagine that that probably has close to a hundred thousand views on 354 00:24:37.569 --> 00:24:42.200 Linkedin and the tagline next to his name is senior account executive, it sales 355 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:47.440 offt. You don't think that that video being associated with sales off is good 356 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:52.589 for sales lost business? Like they're getting incredible exposure to the exact market. 357 00:24:52.710 --> 00:24:57.150 I mean Linkedin is full of salespeople that in vpiece of sales that canotentially buy 358 00:24:57.230 --> 00:25:03.069 sales off, and so I love that sales off didn't go in and say, 359 00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:04.710 nope, can't do that anymore. They're like and I don't know what 360 00:25:04.869 --> 00:25:07.460 the story was behind that. I don't know if they told him to do 361 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:10.819 a part two or if he just did it on his own, but they 362 00:25:10.859 --> 00:25:14.460 didn't stop him from doing it and I think more and more companies that have 363 00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:18.859 talent like that within their four walls they would be wise to kind of unleash 364 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:22.049 them. So I'm glad you brought that up, man, because it's a 365 00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:26.450 mistake to try to tame or rain and that kind of talent. Just going 366 00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:29.569 to let it ride and I think that's a good point to end on. 367 00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:33.890 I just want to kind of put a period on it by saying with that 368 00:25:33.009 --> 00:25:37.240 sort of content, I feel like be tob sales people are going to be 369 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.000 like a huge player in the future of marketing because you see, like what 370 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.200 that guy did, with like his Webcam and probably really like an hour at 371 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.960 most and just like in front of his computer, with probably no script, 372 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:56.230 probably gained more exposure to sales laft than any piece of like blog content or 373 00:25:56.789 --> 00:26:00.670 Webin or that took websites to pull off, maybe even ads they bought. 374 00:26:00.710 --> 00:26:03.710 It probably perform better than like paid advertising, and this is a guy who 375 00:26:03.789 --> 00:26:06.900 just did that for free and as spare time. That sells for your company. 376 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:10.019 So, like, I think people need to really recognize that and go, 377 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:12.059 okay, maybe we need to shift the way we think about marketing. 378 00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:17.299 Yep, skills that we classically associate Yep, I think. I think if 379 00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.609 you can educate, if you can inspire or if you can make somebody laugh, 380 00:26:21.529 --> 00:26:23.369 that's where you need to be thinking about creating. You need to be 381 00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:29.289 creating content that inspires people, that makes them laugh or that educates them. 382 00:26:29.569 --> 00:26:33.240 And from what I've seen, the funny stuff outperforms all the other things. 383 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.559 I don't think you should just be doing funny if you're a brand, but 384 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.240 it's certainly going to get you a bigger lift than the educational content is going 385 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:45.119 to get you. But the educational content should still be done because it's what's 386 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.150 going to really establish thought leadership. But those are the three things. So 387 00:26:49.269 --> 00:26:53.230 to boil down this this idea and what I really hope folks walk away with 388 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:57.390 from this is going and is our content inspiring, is it educational or is 389 00:26:57.430 --> 00:27:00.619 it funny? And if it's not checking one of those boxes, need to 390 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:04.299 rethink how you're doing content. That was amazing, damps, there's a reason 391 00:27:04.579 --> 00:27:07.500 you get paid what you do. I don't know what it is. I 392 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.420 imagine it's a lot and if it's not, you should be paid more. 393 00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:15.500 Either way. You've been listening to the BB gross show again. I am 394 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.769 Hattrick down sells name. When trying our panack you can find on Linkedin. 395 00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:21.930 James Worre Pew work. Can people find you on the Internet? Yeah, 396 00:27:22.049 --> 00:27:25.970 so linkedin. Obviously I'm I'm a huge fan of Linkedin. I'm on it 397 00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:30.559 all the time. My email to is James at sweetfish Mediacom so I've been 398 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.519 talking about anything that you want to email me about. Pretty email me there. 399 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:36.000 And then I had a book come out earlier this year, so you 400 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.559 can find it on Amazon or audible if you prefer listening to books like I 401 00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:42.640 do. It's content based networking. If you listen to the show you know 402 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.990 all about it already. So I don't even really know why I just said 403 00:27:45.029 --> 00:27:48.470 that, but I did anyway. So that's me. I still need a 404 00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:52.910 ranger buck, James. I go by that today. Also, please send 405 00:27:52.950 --> 00:27:56.109 me Fan Mail. I haven't gotten any fan mail and I'm starting to get 406 00:27:56.269 --> 00:28:00.619 hurt. So if you want my address, just paying me. I'm not 407 00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:03.539 going to say it on air like a psychopath, but if you want to 408 00:28:03.579 --> 00:28:07.059 send me some candys or something, please do it anyways. Thanks again, 409 00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:12.450 guys. Thanks for listening and we will see you next time. This episode 410 00:28:12.529 --> 00:28:17.130 is brought to you by Panda Doc. Sending your documents is pds through email 411 00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:19.609 is super old school. It's time to while the socks off your prospects, 412 00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:25.210 clients and colleagues by creating, sending, tracking and e signing with Panda Doc. 413 00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:29.839 Go to panda dooccom slash bb today and start a completely free trial. 414 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:30.440 No credit card required.