#Sales 4: Stop Making These Common Discovery Mistakes w/ Armand Farrokh

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.310 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.509 --> 00:00:12.230 I'm joined today by Armand ferroke. He's the director of sales at Karter. 3 00:00:12.390 --> 00:00:15.390 Armand Welcome to the show. How's it going today? Man, I'm stoked 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:18.190 to be here. Man, big fan of your show. Absolutely Hey, 5 00:00:18.230 --> 00:00:22.739 I appreciate that we're going to be breaking down the three different sections of a 6 00:00:22.859 --> 00:00:27.739 common discovery called you've got some hot takes, maybe some controversial points of view 7 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:32.299 on parts of discovery, from setting an agenda, building rapport things like that. 8 00:00:32.780 --> 00:00:35.340 Before we get into it, though, tell us a little bit about 9 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:40.689 why you're so passionate about why sales people are getting discovery wrong, and then 10 00:00:40.729 --> 00:00:43.810 we're going to get into some action. Will Tips for man. Yeah, 11 00:00:44.049 --> 00:00:49.369 it honestly stems from my extreme frustration with sales management. You hear all of 12 00:00:49.450 --> 00:00:54.159 these best practices around discovery that are not best practices, they're just theories, 13 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:56.759 and so a lot of you guys have probably seen on Linkedin I post a 14 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.119 ton of stuff about prospecting, and that's always actionable. When people tell you 15 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.590 in discovery don't get stuck into a feature battle or sell the vision. None 16 00:01:03.590 --> 00:01:08.269 of that stuff is actionally, actually actionable, there's no way that I can 17 00:01:08.310 --> 00:01:11.870 act on sell the dream, because the bottom line is half of the time 18 00:01:11.950 --> 00:01:15.150 you're a twenty four year old fresh out of college. You don't know how 19 00:01:15.189 --> 00:01:19.219 to hold sales conversation with a CFO or VP of sales. But all of 20 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:23.180 the money is made in the discovery. You need to do two things. 21 00:01:23.540 --> 00:01:26.579 You need to be able to source deals, which is prospecting, and you 22 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:30.219 need to be able to discover pain with those deals. If you don't do 23 00:01:30.500 --> 00:01:33.930 discovery right, if you don't understand the problems and discovery right, if you 24 00:01:33.969 --> 00:01:37.730 can't get a prospect to open up to you, negotiation is out the window. 25 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:41.689 Negotiation is the butter on top at the end of a deal once you've 26 00:01:41.689 --> 00:01:45.489 done really good disco, and oftentimes your reps are so focused on the demo 27 00:01:45.650 --> 00:01:49.920 and the negotiation where in reality discovery is the most important part of the call. 28 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.400 Man. Couldn't agree with you more with that. Let's jump right into 29 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.239 it. So we're going to be talking about the agenda questions that you're asking 30 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:02.150 and best practices around next steps, or at least common practices or maybe some 31 00:02:02.230 --> 00:02:07.109 common mistakes to avoid. So let's talk about setting the agenda. Where do 32 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:09.750 a lot of folks go go wrong and shoot themselves in the foot here, 33 00:02:09.789 --> 00:02:14.310 Armand Yeah, there are really two extremes here, Logan. So the first 34 00:02:14.389 --> 00:02:17.020 extreme is I don't set an agenda, and the reason that that's a huge 35 00:02:17.099 --> 00:02:23.099 mistake is you need to give your prospect the ability to disagree with the purpose 36 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:27.900 to a call. If you just start going into it, you might find 37 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:30.009 I see it all the time, ten fifteen minutes in the call, you're 38 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:32.810 going in a direction in the prospects like that's not why I came here, 39 00:02:34.129 --> 00:02:36.490 and so that's the first thing is you get a lot of these suave sales 40 00:02:36.530 --> 00:02:38.289 guys who just want to get into a call and they just want to have 41 00:02:38.330 --> 00:02:40.650 a natural, flowing conversation. Got Set an agenda, got to let them 42 00:02:40.650 --> 00:02:44.129 know it where it's coming and your prospect needs to be given the right to 43 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:49.639 disagree. The other extreme is they tend to go super, super superscripted, 44 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.800 and I'm a big fan of the Sandler Upfront contract, but a lot of 45 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.360 people take it way, way too far, and so it might sound something 46 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.509 along the lines of well, well, thanks for coming on the call today. 47 00:02:59.550 --> 00:03:02.189 Logan. Do we have thirty minutes. Yes, well, I'd like 48 00:03:02.229 --> 00:03:06.110 to set an agenda today. Typically these calls, who want to two is. 49 00:03:06.229 --> 00:03:07.629 The first way is it's not a fit. Are you okay with telling 50 00:03:07.669 --> 00:03:09.789 me that? Yes, no, great, I'll do the same. The 51 00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:13.419 second way is we are fit and then we can set outs five minutes at 52 00:03:13.419 --> 00:03:15.379 the end to discuss next steps. And it's way, way, way too 53 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:20.419 rigid. And so that's what most people do wrong and I'm happy to discuss 54 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:23.379 the happy medium that I tend to propose. Let's talk about that. Man, 55 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:27.289 I am known amongst our team of always being the guy who's like, 56 00:03:27.449 --> 00:03:29.650 Hey, the truth is in the middle. The best way is in the 57 00:03:29.689 --> 00:03:34.210 middle somewhere. So I'm with you that there's usually two extremes where. You 58 00:03:34.289 --> 00:03:37.210 know, life is a giant balancing act. How do we balance it in 59 00:03:37.330 --> 00:03:39.729 setting an agenda on a disco call? Yeah, absolutely, and so often 60 00:03:39.729 --> 00:03:45.280 times the the biggest challenges is that what you're trying to solve with a discovery 61 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:52.039 call is you're trying to match your objective with what has happened in the customer 62 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.159 journey prior to the moment of them sitting front you. And so, for 63 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:58.550 example, a lot of times on a website it's going to say request the 64 00:03:58.669 --> 00:04:00.949 demo and a prospect will get on to a call and they're expecting to see 65 00:04:00.949 --> 00:04:04.469 software in the first five minutes. And so the first goal of my agenda 66 00:04:04.789 --> 00:04:08.590 needs to be to set the stage that I need to get to know your 67 00:04:08.669 --> 00:04:12.740 business, and so it sets the stage for discovery and it tells them up 68 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:15.740 front that I am going to ask you questions before showing you software. The 69 00:04:15.899 --> 00:04:18.699 other thing that I need to get in front of is if there are certain 70 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:21.420 deal killers or things that I know that are going to pop up in my 71 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:25.129 sales cycle that I need to address in this call that they're going to be 72 00:04:25.209 --> 00:04:28.410 itching to hear about, such as price. Number two, I've got to 73 00:04:28.490 --> 00:04:31.050 address anything that I know they're going to want to hear about so that they 74 00:04:31.089 --> 00:04:34.889 don't feel like they need to probe and ask me. And then the last 75 00:04:34.889 --> 00:04:40.040 thing is I do need to anchor at the end to deciding on some sort 76 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:44.120 of outcome and making sure that I tell them they don't they have the right 77 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:46.959 to not ghost me, and so to get those three things into an agenda. 78 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.240 It might sound something along the lines of this Logan. Look, I 79 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:53.870 really appreciate you taking the call today. Man, just want to make sure 80 00:04:53.990 --> 00:04:57.750 time check. We're good. Full thirty minutes here. Good, awesome Logan's 81 00:04:57.750 --> 00:04:59.949 giving me the thumbs up. Great. Honestly, like I do, don't 82 00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:02.189 have a big presentation today. The goal of today is for me to get 83 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:05.470 to know you your business. Naturally, I know you probably requested a demo 84 00:05:05.509 --> 00:05:08.939 and you want to see some software. I gotta know what to show you, 85 00:05:09.339 --> 00:05:11.300 and so do you mind if I bug you with a couple questions along 86 00:05:11.300 --> 00:05:15.060 the way? Cool, great logans on his head naturally left some back and 87 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:17.220 forth. Look, the last thing is, honestly, as a sales R 88 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:20.930 at, my second favorite answer is is no right behind us, and so, 89 00:05:21.050 --> 00:05:25.009 like I want to make sure that you're totally fine telling me if this 90 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:27.250 isn't a fit, and I'll do the same. Are you good to go 91 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:30.410 with that? awesomely. Now let's let's just start off. Can you just 92 00:05:30.490 --> 00:05:33.730 tell me why you put the call in the first place? Yeah, and 93 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:36.240 so, instead it's a little bit more flow. It has a lot of 94 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:40.959 the aspects of an upfront con same aspects, I mean there's a lot of 95 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:46.000 the same structure. One you just approached it with some natural rhythm and and 96 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.709 tone, which I think it is just man, it doesn't take much. 97 00:05:49.829 --> 00:05:55.230 But I remember early in my sales career there was a tipping point for me 98 00:05:55.509 --> 00:05:58.790 that was more than just realizing this and that in the first year, but 99 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:00.949 I was ready to be like no, this isn't for me, I hate 100 00:06:01.029 --> 00:06:05.180 this. But I realize like hey, I can bring my own personality. 101 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:09.459 I don't have to like put on this. Hey, here's my script, 102 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:13.300 here's what I say, and I started seeing a lot more success by just 103 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:17.339 interjecting, you know, myself into my sales calls and approaching it more. 104 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:21.730 And it might be tough for a young stror, young ae who's just now, 105 00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:25.970 you know, I want to say hitting the streets when you're not no 106 00:06:26.089 --> 00:06:30.089 one's sitting in the streets and outside sales these days, but jumping on calls 107 00:06:30.209 --> 00:06:32.560 and feeling way out of your depth. What do you have to lose? 108 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:38.519 Anyway? Another area I know you're passionate about is rapport building. At the 109 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:43.079 beginning of a discovery call, let's talk about you know, some egstremes, 110 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:46.750 some missteps. What's your take on rapport building? Yes, the rapport is 111 00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:50.629 the icing on the cake, and I'm not suggesting disclaimer. I am not 112 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:55.870 suggesting that you go into a call and they try to talk, you know, 113 00:06:55.949 --> 00:06:57.509 the talk with you. They try to say, Oh, we went 114 00:06:57.509 --> 00:07:00.310 to the same school, and then you just like become a wall right. 115 00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:03.699 What I am saying is you need to be able to read the prospect to 116 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:09.259 a certain degree and oftentimes within one or two questions you can tell if you 117 00:07:09.379 --> 00:07:12.660 ask them how's your day going? Good, good, bad beer, you 118 00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:16.290 can probably tell that this person is somebody who also lives out of Google calendar 119 00:07:16.410 --> 00:07:20.810 and and you need to be respectful of their time. And oftentimes the biggest 120 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:25.209 size of relief from a prospect will come when you tell them you can give 121 00:07:25.250 --> 00:07:27.889 them five minutes back at the end of meeting. And so, for that 122 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.560 reason, the way that I will build rapport with you is not by telling 123 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.279 you that you and I went to the same school or that you and I 124 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:36.720 did this, or that we have the same name and it just sounds slightly 125 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:41.759 differently. I don't really care. I'm going to start by saying I respect 126 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:45.629 your time and I'm going to weave in a couple points of research that shows 127 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.069 you that I know a little bit about Your Business and that's how I'm going 128 00:07:48.110 --> 00:07:51.310 to earn your respect. I'm not going to be be as saying asking you, 129 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:56.110 Oh, how you holding up your honkering down there right now? You're 130 00:07:56.110 --> 00:07:59.339 working from home. How's you're working from home situation? You got those picture 131 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:01.019 frames back there? That's not how I'm going to start my call. I'm 132 00:08:01.019 --> 00:08:03.899 going to slow it down, I'm going to set an agenda and I'm going 133 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:07.620 to tell you some things that I know about you and preparation from them call 134 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:09.939 and I'm going to focus on solving your problems and that is how I will 135 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.250 build report with you. Yeah, absolutely, Man, I've heard John Barrows 136 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:18.089 repeat over and over again. You know, in preparation for this call, 137 00:08:18.129 --> 00:08:22.529 I noticed Dada, DA, Dada, just thinking when am I saying that? 138 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:24.810 And if I can't start a sentence with that, then I probably haven't 139 00:08:24.810 --> 00:08:30.879 done enough prep because I've found people who are ready to be where I didn't 140 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.039 do a good job of setting the agenda and I've realized they take a deep 141 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.080 breath and they get ready to say well, let me tell you a little 142 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.070 bit about us, and where I've realized is hold on a sec here's what 143 00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:46.350 I know that based on this, I have this question and then it changed. 144 00:08:46.590 --> 00:08:48.870 Right. They're like, oh, okay, right, and and that 145 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:54.789 builds rapport better than just kind of the Common Hey, I see you're a 146 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:58.580 Broncos fan or man the patriots suck or whatever. As much as all love 147 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:03.419 getting talk talking football with anybody who will have me, now what you said 148 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.460 to I think it is important. You've got to as I've been telling my 149 00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:11.409 kids and my wife has as well, you've got to learn to read the 150 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:15.009 room. Now in let's just take the states, and this is, you 151 00:09:15.129 --> 00:09:18.450 know, only just one microcosm of all sorts of different cultural norms across the 152 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:24.759 globe. You know, someone in New York versus someone in Texas, just 153 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.720 kind of in general, right. There are even exceptions to this. Different 154 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:33.080 parts of the country different people are. They expect to just get to business 155 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.279 and if they have time for a little bit of Chit Chat, you have 156 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.519 some commonality that they want to talk about, they'll do that at the end. 157 00:09:37.830 --> 00:09:41.909 Other people you will almost offend by just jumping straight to business and not 158 00:09:43.070 --> 00:09:48.190 even asking any sort of question. So seeing how they respond to the hey, 159 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:52.470 how's it going? That like? If they have an inclination to hey, 160 00:09:52.549 --> 00:09:54.899 it looks like this person is open to kind of some personal chat for 161 00:09:56.059 --> 00:09:58.620 one or two minutes real quick. Didn't lean into that a little bit. 162 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.980 But you got to start with reading the room, like you said exactly, 163 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.860 and you can read it with some opening questions. It's not like you get 164 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:07.850 onto the call and it's like hold on, don't say anything, agenda time. 165 00:10:09.129 --> 00:10:13.009 That right. That is not what I'm suggesting, but I'm saying don't 166 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:16.610 try to Pry in with ten minutes about talking about your favorite type of mustard 167 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:20.450 if it's not there, and even if it is there, you probably shouldn't 168 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:22.440 spend ten minutes talking about it. The other thing that we need to talk 169 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:26.240 about is, as we get deeper into the discovery called the building or port 170 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:31.759 process is pulled throughout the entire discovery called and so after I've set my agenda, 171 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:33.960 the next thing we were going to talk about is that first question. 172 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.669 And so by understanding Your Business Logan, I can start to ask probing questions 173 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:41.789 throughout the disco. And so, for example, if I know you're requested 174 00:10:41.789 --> 00:10:46.230 a demo and I've done some basic research about your company, I can say 175 00:10:46.230 --> 00:10:48.669 Hey, I notice you just raise this funning around. CONGRATS on that. 176 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.340 Typically, when I'm talking to people. X and Y come to mind. 177 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:54.940 Could you just give me a sense of like what brought you to take the 178 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.379 call and I can start to weave in pieces of research that I've done on 179 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:01.059 you that gets you to set up a little bit that make you think, 180 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:05.090 oh, shoot, like this guy did his research and he's just subtly putting 181 00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:09.929 it on the table. So as as we get beyond the agenda, obviously 182 00:11:09.009 --> 00:11:15.850 a big part of discovery is asking questions. It's it's fairly obvious. As 183 00:11:15.929 --> 00:11:22.279 Chris Voss says, negotiating is just a a mission on fact finding and really, 184 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:24.600 as you put it earlier, you don't get to negotiate if you don't 185 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:30.960 discover, and so it's really you're starting negotiation right now, right and it's 186 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.549 based on the questions that you ask. And there's a big there's a big 187 00:11:33.789 --> 00:11:37.830 misstep that you see a lot of salespeople making where they're not going to the 188 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:41.470 next level with their line of question. And can you talk about kind of 189 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:46.029 the two levels of questioning where you see a lot of people stopping short or 190 00:11:46.070 --> 00:11:48.539 mind yeah, and there's so many different names for this, but on the 191 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:54.860 highest level, oftentimes the first set of questioning is called situational questions and they 192 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:58.779 tend to be revolving around some sort of process. How are you guys doing 193 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:01.049 this today? How many employees do you have? What system are you on 194 00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:07.210 today? None of those questions indicate a problem to me. They indicate a 195 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:11.730 potential situation that could cause a problem that the customer may or may not be 196 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:16.919 aware of. And so the next line of questioning that I really push ups 197 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.080 to go into is that they'll get all excited because they're like, for example, 198 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.240 we sell a solution that helps companies manage their option plans. So they 199 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:26.279 issue stock to employees, they need to track all that stuff. Oftentimes it's 200 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.269 done on a spreadsheet or with attorneys. They'll ask, how are you guys 201 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:33.269 managing your Cap Table Right now? The attorney, the the person on the 202 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:35.789 other line will say, well, we do it in spreadsheets in our attorney 203 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:37.149 helps us out. They'll be like, boom, we got them. That 204 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.429 doesn't tell me anything. Now the next line questioning starts to be pain questions. 205 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:46.019 Well, how are you managing that spreadsheet so that you don't have to 206 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:50.700 spend x hundred dollars a month on billable hours chewing up the CAB table. 207 00:12:52.059 --> 00:12:54.259 Tell me a little bit more. Now I'm getting into pain questions, and 208 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:58.220 so what I suggest everyone to do is, if you've read the book gap 209 00:12:58.299 --> 00:13:01.049 selling, that has something similar called a problem identification chart. Is Map out 210 00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:05.769 all the potential situations for the three or four core buckets that you have. 211 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:07.769 So it might be how are you issuing equity for us? How are you 212 00:13:07.809 --> 00:13:11.049 managing your Cap Table For us? Those are the situations as Callum one column 213 00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:15.879 to what are the pain points associated with those situations? And then you start 214 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.720 to pull people across column to column, and then you can get into the 215 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:26.399 impacts of paying billable hours. So you can't make your budgets, your CFO's 216 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.149 hair is on fire, you look like an idiot in front of your board 217 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:33.070 because your cap table is wrong, and then you can start to pull piece 218 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:35.950 them all together in a discovery call and you have a natural progression of situation 219 00:13:37.269 --> 00:13:39.549 to paying questions to impact questions. But until you have that mapped out, 220 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:45.179 a lot of people just wander in discovery with seven hundred situational questions and it 221 00:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.460 never goes anywhere. Yeah, what are some of your thoughts, arm on 222 00:13:48.700 --> 00:13:52.220 on, because to me I've always struggled a bit with. I feel like 223 00:13:52.539 --> 00:13:58.090 I'm best with now. I'm not selling software, I'm selling our podcasting service, 224 00:13:58.169 --> 00:14:00.730 so I'm where a service based business, so it's a little bit different. 225 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:03.409 I don't have that to show, but I also do have examples of 226 00:14:03.490 --> 00:14:09.440 our work to show different things that I can I can I can show similar 227 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:15.720 to a software demo. I think the most effective reps really kind of weave 228 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:18.600 in the conversation and the demo, as opposed to like, okay, it's 229 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.759 question time, all right, it's demo time. All right, it's slide 230 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.350 deck time, because the moment that you kind of flip that switch to the 231 00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:28.629 different modes, you're telling your prospect all right, it's time for me to 232 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:31.350 shut up and listen. You know, just like if you were presenting in 233 00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:35.309 person, if you dim the lights and turn on the power point. All 234 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:37.950 Right, I'm not suposed to ask questions down, supposed to sit back. 235 00:14:37.029 --> 00:14:41.980 Follow my hands, and you're queuing them for that behavior that you probably don't 236 00:14:41.980 --> 00:14:45.220 want, because we know that the more talk time you get from your prospect, 237 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.659 the more effect of your discovery call is going to be. So talk 238 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:52.769 to us a little bit about your your process and this again look different depending 239 00:14:52.769 --> 00:14:56.929 on the software that you sell or whatever, but demo, visuals, conversation. 240 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.929 What do you see as effective? To keep it natural but also keep 241 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:05.169 it structured? Again, the truth, the best way is usually in the 242 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.879 middle ground. There's some something. We've got a balance, and those are 243 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.000 the two that I see. You've got to you've got a balance throughout the 244 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:13.320 discovery call. Right. Yeah, it's tricky. It's so again, to 245 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.399 the point earlier, the extremes are always wrong and so oftentimes when reps start 246 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:22.710 off discovery, the first thing that goes wrong is they end up talking the 247 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.470 entire time, and then the second thing that goes wrong is they reverse in 248 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:30.190 the other way and they turn it into an interrogation, and it's not supposed 249 00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:33.190 to be either. The best discovery calls feel like conversations, and so the 250 00:15:33.509 --> 00:15:37.139 rule of time throughout discovery that I like Oh people is ask a couple questions, 251 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:41.820 dig into one thread associated with your solution, one bucket, get in 252 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:45.500 your situational pain, impact questions, etc. And then do some storytelling and 253 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:48.740 explain how you might be able to solve problem and transition to the next piece 254 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.730 and do that in a moderate at least way, once you get to the 255 00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:56.210 demo, it's not the big Hurrah, it is not like the great reveal 256 00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.009 of here are all the problems, because I've been storytelling along the way, 257 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.690 and so before I show you software, you should already have as a prospect 258 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:07.960 three three stories in mind of ways that I might be able to help you. 259 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.639 And then during the Demo, now I've decided to show you that those 260 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:17.440 stories aren't ridiculous. And so a lot of people will show one module of 261 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.070 the software and then they'll show another module of the software and then another and 262 00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:25.470 another, and it will be a fifteen minute monolog or even worse, they'll 263 00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:27.830 show one module and they'll be like any questions, and then they'll show another 264 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:33.379 module and they'll be like any questions? It's moderately insulting, or they'll be 265 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:36.019 like does that make sense? And so take those two things out of your 266 00:16:36.019 --> 00:16:38.779 language and now that you've done your work in your discovery, the goal of 267 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:45.740 the demo is to understand do those stories that I told you earlier solve the 268 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:48.330 problems that you told me earlier and does this seem realistic? And so I 269 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.009 might be showing them something and as I'm voicing it, over. I'm not 270 00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:55.649 just saying this feature allows you to do this, I'm voicing over and I'm 271 00:16:55.690 --> 00:16:59.970 storytelling. Hey, you told me you guys were managing this process in x 272 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:03.879 way. This is what it would look like moving forward. Does this feel 273 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.240 like something that could be realistic to implement? Does this sound like something that 274 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.000 would solve the problem that you told me about x number of hours being spent 275 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.349 on this? Does this align with what you told me would be the solution 276 00:17:15.509 --> 00:17:21.069 moving forward? And you're validating all of the problems you've found in the discovery 277 00:17:21.390 --> 00:17:25.869 and then you're asking more questions to get more granular, to tailor the demo 278 00:17:25.950 --> 00:17:30.259 to the prospect. I want people to notice the language that you used in 279 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:34.380 those questions right there, Armand those were emotional questions. Does this feel like? 280 00:17:36.019 --> 00:17:38.579 Does this seem like not? Does this make sense? If you want 281 00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:41.900 to know where you're going wrong with does that make sense, go check out 282 00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:47.529 a previous episode I did with David Preemer from from cerebral selling. You may 283 00:17:48.130 --> 00:17:52.009 not realize how much damage you're doing with that question that you ask probably five 284 00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:56.809 times on every discovery or demo called Armand I want to leave some time for 285 00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:02.039 next steps. Hey, you know how Meta, how Meta, is that? 286 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.759 Let's leave time for next steps. So let's talk about leaving time for 287 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.319 next steps and doing it the right way. Yeah, a lot of people 288 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:12.150 take this to the extreme and I have a horrible confession here. I've never 289 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:15.549 actually done this, but I've seen reps to it and it works phenomenally. 290 00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:19.789 Some people actually set a time or five minutes ahead, and so five minutes 291 00:18:19.789 --> 00:18:22.150 before the top of the hour they will have an alarm go off and it's 292 00:18:22.150 --> 00:18:26.589 a little bit jarring and they agree in their upfront contractor in their agenda, 293 00:18:26.589 --> 00:18:27.940 saying like I'm going to set a time on my phone right now. When 294 00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:32.819 that goes off, that's our signal to post off, because I respect your 295 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:34.859 time and we're going to talk about the rest of this either way. If 296 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:38.259 I set that time, if I set that expectation in the agenda, I 297 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:41.930 may or may not need the timer. But the point is, once you 298 00:18:41.009 --> 00:18:47.089 see that clock, you've got to manage that clock and you need at least 299 00:18:47.769 --> 00:18:51.529 five minutes and if you know it's going to be a deep pricing discussion, 300 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:56.559 you probably need at least ten. And so know your sale and five minutes 301 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.200 leading up to the end of the call, cut it off, and that's 302 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.079 when you say hey, it sounds like we've got a lot of good stuff 303 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.599 going on here, and what I need to do in next steps is number 304 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.470 one. Always, always, always, do a pulse check. And so 305 00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:12.990 a lot of reps in their next step still close a demo and will be 306 00:19:14.069 --> 00:19:15.309 like great, well, here's what I'm going to do. Why don't we 307 00:19:15.309 --> 00:19:18.630 set up a next step to go over pricing in our next call? I 308 00:19:18.869 --> 00:19:22.789 just showed you a lot there. I just got off a ten minute demo, 309 00:19:22.869 --> 00:19:26.579 of fifteen minute demo. Some people do a thirty minute demo. These 310 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:30.099 are long conversations. You've seen all the software. I got to get a 311 00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:32.740 Yes from you, and so the first thing I'm asking is, look, 312 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:34.539 I showed you a lot there and you told me x y and Z. 313 00:19:36.339 --> 00:19:41.329 Does what I show you warrant having additional conversations moving forward? If we were 314 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:44.650 to discuss X Y and Z and I need to get to the yes or 315 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:49.170 the no. They're once I have the affirmative. Great, that now informs 316 00:19:49.650 --> 00:19:53.880 what my next step is, and so great. We validated that the software 317 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.680 could be a piece of interest for you. Here's how the sale works from 318 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:02.799 here. Moving on and I'm not asking them, I'm telling them. Here's 319 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.000 what happens next. You and I get on into another call, we need 320 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.589 to probably pull in three four other people that, by the way, I've 321 00:20:10.589 --> 00:20:12.630 done my research and I know who those four people are, in their names, 322 00:20:12.710 --> 00:20:15.029 and so I'm going to pull them out here and say this, this 323 00:20:15.349 --> 00:20:18.269 and this person need to be in the next call. Or you and I, 324 00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:22.099 as the next step, need to get on a call and review pricing. 325 00:20:22.579 --> 00:20:26.700 Is there anything else in your decision criteria or in your process internally that 326 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:29.859 I should be aware about? And that's how you control the sale. You 327 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.059 don't sit there and be like, well, what do we do from here? 328 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:34.099 Like, Dude, you're the sales person, you tell me. Yeah, 329 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:37.970 I forget where I heard it recently. But as much as there's a 330 00:20:38.009 --> 00:20:41.890 lack of training on on selling, there's even more lack of a training on 331 00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:47.130 buying, you know. And so to expect your buyer to say, Hey, 332 00:20:47.329 --> 00:20:49.039 this is how we go through the process, this is how we buy 333 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:55.880 this thing, because even though we want to map our sales motion to their 334 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:59.359 buying journey, it doesn't mean that they know where they're going. It doesn't 335 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.640 mean they know you know, and buying a crm is not equal to buying 336 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.349 a new benefits provider a service with the new benefits provider. Those are different 337 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:11.509 things, they involve different people, they have different timelines, all those sorts 338 00:21:11.549 --> 00:21:15.509 of things. So you need to also show that you've been here before, 339 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.740 and so what I like to do that makes it more about the customer than 340 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:21.940 it does about your sales process, is, you know, I love what 341 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:25.579 you said about calling out the names of the other people. If you you 342 00:21:25.660 --> 00:21:27.779 know, it's so easy to do with linkedin sales navigator, if you know 343 00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:32.619 you're talking to, you know the marketing manager, and you normally need to 344 00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:34.970 get the VP of marketing to also sign off as well. Look up who 345 00:21:36.009 --> 00:21:37.769 the VP of marketing is and say hey, does it make sense to have 346 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.769 josh on the next call, and it makes it very conversational. It shows 347 00:21:41.809 --> 00:21:45.690 that you did your homework. And then the other thing that you can do 348 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:48.319 to kind of show that you've been there before, right, is that most 349 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:53.920 of our customers need to you know, are asking these questions before they come 350 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:59.480 to the next call or they're bringing in someone from this department who typically has 351 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.589 this question. Have you covered that yet? You know in your internal conversations 352 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:06.309 those sorts of things, so that you can say, Hey, I'm not 353 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:08.710 telling you what I need from you, I'm telling you what other people who've 354 00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:12.549 sat in your seat what they're going through and probably what you should be thinking 355 00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:15.660 about as well. HMM, and you mentioned two really important things are. 356 00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:18.740 The first is it shows that you've done your research. A lot of people 357 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:22.779 like I don't want to drop that person's boss's name. Well, that's happened 358 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:29.259 to me and honestly, I was really impressed and the person positioned in a 359 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:30.849 way that made it sound like she was looking out for me. It's like, 360 00:22:30.970 --> 00:22:34.970 Hey, oftentimes I find that this person has some pretty strong opinions about 361 00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:37.809 the stuff. How you have you had the chance to run it by this 362 00:22:37.930 --> 00:22:41.769 person, versus, if you ask them who else needs to be looped into 363 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:45.200 this decision, it basically sounds like I'm asking who's your boss, right, 364 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.240 yeah, who do you have the authority to sign here? Is what that 365 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:49.839 sounds like, right yeah, and what do you always going to get? 366 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.880 Yep, I'm the decisionmaker. I'm the decision maker. And then you get 367 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.079 to negotiation and it's like, okay, if we covered all this, yeah, 368 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:00.630 but I got to present it to so and so, way, way, 369 00:23:00.670 --> 00:23:03.630 way, hold on. Something does not compute here, and that's, 370 00:23:03.869 --> 00:23:07.869 you know, it's human nature right where we're insulted by that question and you 371 00:23:07.990 --> 00:23:11.900 know it's not their fault you're asking it that way that it's insulting to them. 372 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:17.500 A really good strategy I heard on John Barrows make it happen Monday's podcast, 373 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:19.420 which, if you're looking for more sales content, you're not subscribe to 374 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:23.259 that show. Check it out right now and subscribe. But he was talking 375 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:26.410 with I forget who it was, I think it was a sales leader over 376 00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:30.849 at drift and what he said that he has his reps to is you get 377 00:23:32.049 --> 00:23:34.210 in bound lead or you book an appointment, whatever the case is. You 378 00:23:34.490 --> 00:23:37.730 you use the script something like this, which I've actually saved and I use 379 00:23:37.809 --> 00:23:41.680 something very similar to this. Hey, you look up their boss, who 380 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.960 you think is likely the decisionmaker. So maybe you're at the director level. 381 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.759 You need to get to the VP level. That's really where the power lies. 382 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.160 Typically in your sales process, you send them a linkedin connection request or 383 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.470 an email, if you can grab that with lead Iq or whatever. Send 384 00:23:56.509 --> 00:24:00.269 them an email saying hey, looks like your company is showing some interest in 385 00:24:00.470 --> 00:24:03.190 what we do. My name is Logan with sweetfish. Just wanted to introduce 386 00:24:03.269 --> 00:24:07.710 myself and let you know I'll be available to you, you know down the 387 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:11.259 road should you need anything. For now, I've got next steps scheduled with 388 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:15.779 John. We're meeting next Wednesday. That's it. Not a question, but 389 00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:19.819 just an introduction. So if at some point you do need to get to 390 00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:25.410 a different level, you're not doing an end around. You've already introduced yourself 391 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:27.650 to someone else at a higher level within the organization. What are your thoughts 392 00:24:27.690 --> 00:24:30.690 on that? Man? Yeah, I think it's so important and often times 393 00:24:30.769 --> 00:24:36.089 people are afraid to break the corporate veil with their first prospects of the interface 394 00:24:36.170 --> 00:24:40.440 with but a lot of times people forget that the person who requested a demo 395 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:45.759 is oftentimes not the decisionmaker, but your he's going to be your future champion, 396 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.240 and so what you need to do is you need to get on a 397 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.559 first name basis with that person. You need to get on a text basis 398 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.109 with that person, you need to make sure that you understand their problems so 399 00:24:55.309 --> 00:24:57.309 well, like we talked about in the discovery and you're able to tell them 400 00:24:57.549 --> 00:25:00.869 that you're going to help them solve those problems and then, when you're discussing 401 00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:03.589 next steps to your point Logan, you need to say like Hey, I 402 00:25:03.630 --> 00:25:07.740 want to help you win here. I want to help you solve these problems 403 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:10.420 in your organ have you be the champion. I'm going to meet with this 404 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:12.940 guy next. Do you mind if I give you a ring twenty minutes before 405 00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:17.180 the meeting and get briefed on it? Can you help me help you a 406 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:19.579 little bit? And I've had the best reps that have managed sale cycles and 407 00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:23.170 also people have tried to sell the met have gotten on a texting basis with 408 00:25:23.329 --> 00:25:26.410 me before they meet with our head of sales ops, before they meet with 409 00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:30.210 a rep of sales, and I'm telling them all of the inside information they 410 00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:34.490 need to know to hit on all the right pain points. Every single enterprise 411 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:38.039 deal cycle, or even mid market deal cycle, has that opportunity. If 412 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.359 there's more than one stakeholder, you can win somebody and they can be your 413 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:45.000 inside I love that you brought up texting. Man James and I did an 414 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:52.069 episode here recently about specific ways to turn prospects into friends and I almost like 415 00:25:52.230 --> 00:25:56.150 hesitated to write that headline when we drop that episode, because I'm like, 416 00:25:56.430 --> 00:26:00.470 it almost can sound manipulative, but you have to approach it the right way. 417 00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:03.269 Are you really trying to help them and, if you are, communicate 418 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:07.779 with them more like you would a friend, getting on a text basis, 419 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.140 getting doing those sorts of things, and you would be surprised how few people 420 00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:15.779 do it and you will absolutely stand out and you could do it very easily. 421 00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:18.289 Here's here's kind of a way to do that, because it's like, 422 00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.930 Hey, texting is a very intimate medium, right, it's what you do 423 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:25.809 with your wife, your husband, your significant other, your best friends, 424 00:26:25.849 --> 00:26:29.690 your mom, your grandma. Right, if your grandma texts, depending on 425 00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:33.799 your age, my grandma text but she can't send photos because she still doesn't 426 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:36.359 have a smartphone. Anyway, I'm getting on a tangent, but like, 427 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:38.000 here's the way to do it. Like Armand you and I get off a 428 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.640 call. Well, in the sign up for like if I'm using mix Max 429 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.839 or Chili Piper or whatever, I get your phone number right and make that 430 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.509 field required and say hey, in case we can't connect these zoom or whatever, 431 00:26:49.589 --> 00:26:53.029 which is legit. Right. We hop off this call, I send 432 00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:56.190 you a text thank you so much for your time and really appreciate it. 433 00:26:56.589 --> 00:27:00.430 Looking forward to the next steps. But you send that as a text rather 434 00:27:00.470 --> 00:27:06.059 than email, they are going to respond one right and now you have established 435 00:27:06.099 --> 00:27:11.099 a text relationship with with that person in a very natural way that doesn't come 436 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:15.539 across as creepy, where it's like, three weeks in they've ghosted you and 437 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.009 you're texting them like, oh, this is going to seem creepy, but 438 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:21.890 I got to do it because I gotta get around. And there goes to 439 00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:23.529 my emails. You're not even opening them. I don't know if they're going 440 00:27:23.609 --> 00:27:26.089 to spam. I'm going to send them a text like hey man, I 441 00:27:26.210 --> 00:27:30.400 think all my emails are going to spam, which kind of sounds like a 442 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.279 line, which you might be using it as a line anyway. So anyway, 443 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.240 avoid all that and just take some tactical steps they get in your process. 444 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.240 I love what you're talking about their man Armand if there's one thing you 445 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:41.759 want listeners to take away from this episode, what do you want it to 446 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:45.190 be? There's a lot of nonsense pens out there and I think Logan just 447 00:27:45.509 --> 00:27:49.309 does such a good job of breaking it into actionable sales tactics. What I 448 00:27:49.349 --> 00:27:55.750 would urge every single person to do is whenever you hear sales tip like sell 449 00:27:55.910 --> 00:28:00.220 the dream or this or that or something that's not really actionable, I would 450 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:03.539 really suggest that you figure out what those three or four tips are for you 451 00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:08.099 and try to make them very, very real and tangible for your business. 452 00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:11.579 And so, for example, today what I've said is you should probably understand 453 00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:15.490 the situations, the pains and then the impacts for your specific product. That 454 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.529 is the level one of actionable. You need to go and take that two 455 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:25.410 levels deeper and actually write down what those situations, pains and impacts are, 456 00:28:25.730 --> 00:28:30.960 because otherwise you're literally just reading the chapter headers of a book. You're not 457 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.319 getting the depth that you need to. We can give you all the tips 458 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.920 in the world, but if you don't make it real for your solution and 459 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.960 twist it to your world, it's all worthless. So go out there and 460 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.069 do it. And then I got a plug really quickly run a podcast ourselves 461 00:28:44.150 --> 00:28:47.750 called thirty minutes to President's Club, and it's all actionable, no nonsense sales 462 00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:51.029 tactics, and so you'll get more of this love on that show, awesome 463 00:28:51.109 --> 00:28:53.509 and Armand other than your podcast. What's the best way for someone to reach 464 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:56.180 out if they've got a specific question and what you shared today? Man, 465 00:28:56.619 --> 00:29:00.380 yeah, two ways. Number one is just follow me on Linkedin if especially 466 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:03.259 be coming on one of my post I try to get back to almost every 467 00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:07.980 comment if there's an explicit question. Or just send me a note at Armand 468 00:29:07.099 --> 00:29:10.970 at Cartacom. I love it, man, make it nice and easy. 469 00:29:11.009 --> 00:29:12.529 A couple of resources. Will put in the show notes that. I think 470 00:29:12.609 --> 00:29:15.769 we're really in line with what we talked about today. If you haven't read 471 00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:18.970 Keenan's book gap selling that Armand mentioned, will link to that in the show 472 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:23.359 notes. Check it out. The episode I mentioned with David Preemer from cerebral 473 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.440 selling. That was a great episode. If you're looking for more sales related 474 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.079 content here in the BB growth feed, because we do touch on both sales 475 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.160 and marketing, we tried to call out the sales related episodes with the HASHTAG 476 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.910 sales headline. So look out for future episodes with that in the headline. 477 00:29:38.029 --> 00:29:41.470 And then also the other episode I mentioned with James that he and I did 478 00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:45.029 and are behind the curtain series several ways. Of forget a link to it 479 00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:49.829 in the show notes, but multiple ways to turn prospects into friends. I 480 00:29:51.069 --> 00:29:53.859 just love what Armand is echoing here, and I've seen it play out in 481 00:29:53.980 --> 00:29:59.700 my own sales career and I cannot recommend those sort of strategies enough. Urmand, 482 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:00.980 thank you so much for being our guest on the show today. I 483 00:30:02.019 --> 00:30:07.329 really appreciate a man. All right, man, take it easy. I 484 00:30:07.569 --> 00:30:11.890 hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why 485 00:30:11.930 --> 00:30:15.490 they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a 486 00:30:15.529 --> 00:30:18.970 podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you leave a 487 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:22.920 review for me to be growth and apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of 488 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.160 the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy 489 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.079 of my new book, content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone 490 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.079 you want to know. We get a review, you get a free book. 491 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:33.960 We both win.