Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:10.589
That's where the gold lies, is
those misunderstandings, those misques, those misconceptions
2
00:00:10.630 --> 00:00:16.829
that they they've gotten from using the
product. Welcome back to the sales series
3
00:00:16.949 --> 00:00:21.109
of BB growth. My name is
James Carberry and I'm joined today by bell
4
00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:25.940
but trowy. He is the head
of sales at stratify, and today we're
5
00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:31.019
going to be talking about a really
tangible action plan for sales development that any
6
00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:36.049
BB sales leave your can use in
their organization. Be Little before we jump
7
00:00:36.130 --> 00:00:40.689
into this. You know you share
a ton of really tactical advice for both
8
00:00:40.810 --> 00:00:44.250
SDRs and a's on Linkedin. I've
been following your stuff for a while now.
9
00:00:44.250 --> 00:00:46.850
It seems like you're popping up in
my new feed at least every other
10
00:00:46.890 --> 00:00:51.600
day. But we're going to be
focusing on sales development in this episode and
11
00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:56.280
before we get into kind of a
tactical action plan, give our listeners just
12
00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.240
a little bit of context and tell
us why you're so passionate about sales development.
13
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.119
For sure we'll thanks for having me
first. First off, James,
14
00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:06.709
honor to be on the show.
Very excited to do this and I'm glad
15
00:01:06.750 --> 00:01:11.310
the linked an algorithm that is yes, grace be grace feed, the presence
16
00:01:11.349 --> 00:01:12.629
of your feed, because you never
know what that thing's going to do.
17
00:01:12.909 --> 00:01:15.750
Right, that's awesome to here.
Yes, sales development, right, I
18
00:01:15.829 --> 00:01:21.939
mean it's the cornerstone of every successful
sales team. Right, is building that
19
00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:26.260
funnel from that, from the point
of the target adjustable market, actually turning
20
00:01:26.379 --> 00:01:30.579
people from unaware it's interested in your
product and, quite frankly, it's one
21
00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:34.769
of the toughest jobs you can do. I think we all remember being an
22
00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:38.489
str just wishing to get out of
that role. It's a very, very,
23
00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:42.209
very challenging and it just got a
lot harder, right, everything going
24
00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:45.209
on in the world right now.
So it's one of those ones as well.
25
00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:48.799
That's a vulnerable position because when things
do go wrong, they're the first
26
00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.200
to go right. It's a position
that I think a lot of sills is
27
00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.439
would say. It's acceptable for it
to be a turnover position, which you
28
00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.719
know when we say turnover and talking
about people's lives on, about people's wellbeing,
29
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:02.469
people's jobs. So it's a number
of things that go into why sales
30
00:02:02.510 --> 00:02:07.670
development is so mission critical and and
getting it right. I mean it was
31
00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:12.069
the difference between me seeing startups growing
five hundred percent year over year versus growing
32
00:02:12.150 --> 00:02:15.139
one hundred percent year over year really
so little. Let's dive in and get
33
00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:17.819
tactical, because I've seen enough of
your content to know that you can.
34
00:02:17.979 --> 00:02:22.020
You can go there and you go
there often, and I think so many
35
00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:27.900
people get value out of that really
deep tactical content that you're sharing on linkedin.
36
00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:31.969
So you recently stepped into a head
of sales role and so you're probably
37
00:02:32.009 --> 00:02:35.810
living this right now. We talked
a little bit offline about where you're at
38
00:02:35.930 --> 00:02:38.770
with with stratify and kind of the
things that you're tackling now, being early
39
00:02:38.889 --> 00:02:44.479
in the role. Tell us what
your action plan for sales development looks like
40
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:49.120
at stratify? Yes, definitely,
and it's a peculiar one, because I'll
41
00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.280
preface it with this right, there's
a there's a term in psychology the curse
42
00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:54.759
of knowledge. Okay, the curse
of knowledge is when you learn something,
43
00:02:55.319 --> 00:03:00.550
you can't remove yourself from that contextual
understanding to talk to somebody else that doesn't
44
00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:04.949
know the thing you just learned.
All right, and the simple way to
45
00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:08.189
explain this is the test that they
did to prove this curse of knowledge was
46
00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:14.539
they would have a group of people
either sit a hum or, whistle happy
47
00:03:14.620 --> 00:03:17.419
birthday, write a tune that we
all know to another group of people and
48
00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:22.580
the people humming and whistling thought for
sure the other people knew what song they
49
00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:24.699
were they were humming and whistling at, and the majority of people had no
50
00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:28.330
clue what they were doing. Right, because they were cursed with knowledge.
51
00:03:28.330 --> 00:03:30.449
They knew that they were singing happy
birthday. Just assume the other party would
52
00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:34.650
get it, and they don't.
So then imagine with something like product knowledge.
53
00:03:34.689 --> 00:03:38.330
So when it comes to like this
action plan, this is very peculiar
54
00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:43.719
because I'm trying to avoid the curse
of knowledge for myself and my team,
55
00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.639
so that way we can be tactically
empathetic to the buyer who knows nothing about
56
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.319
us, right, who lives in
a world of unaware and we need to
57
00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.349
take them out of that unawareness.
So, that being said, step one
58
00:03:55.509 --> 00:04:00.310
for me is talked as many customers
as possible. Right I just want to
59
00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:04.030
hear how they describe the product because
again, if I just dive head first
60
00:04:04.069 --> 00:04:08.750
into learning the product itself, I'm
going to learn it from the people who
61
00:04:08.870 --> 00:04:11.699
created it, not the people who
use it. Right, and I need
62
00:04:11.860 --> 00:04:15.259
that understanding of the users, who
will miss features, who will self educate,
63
00:04:15.420 --> 00:04:19.220
who will make assumptions based on their
first impressions of the product that may
64
00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:24.329
be wrong, and all those things
are great. The perfect that's where the
65
00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:30.209
gold lies, is those misunderstandings,
those misques, those misconceptions that they've they've
66
00:04:30.290 --> 00:04:33.129
gotten from using the product. So
as you as you've done that at stratify,
67
00:04:34.009 --> 00:04:36.689
are you going to your product team
and saying, Hey, show me,
68
00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:41.399
show me the users that are inner
product every day and then I want
69
00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.680
to see some users that are using
the product once a week, like is
70
00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:46.560
that how you're organizing that? or
or you looking at like, Hey,
71
00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.360
I want to I want to talk
to enterprise customers and I want to talk
72
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:53.790
to mid market customers. Like,
how are you thinking through what customers you
73
00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:58.430
want to prioritize to have these conversations
with? Fantastic question. I so almost
74
00:04:58.430 --> 00:05:00.189
every startup I've been at and used
as a session replay tool. Right,
75
00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:02.389
there's a bunch of them out there. So yeah, you look in the
76
00:05:02.430 --> 00:05:05.629
session replay too and you see who's
engaging with our product and start with them
77
00:05:05.750 --> 00:05:10.300
first, and they are the ones
who are going to teach me the product
78
00:05:10.339 --> 00:05:14.540
initially. They are going to form
my first unbreakable impression of what the product
79
00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:17.819
is. So that way I will
be skewed to the customers understanding of the
80
00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:23.170
product, not my product team's understanding
of what it is, not the engineering
81
00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:27.009
teams understanding of what it is.
So it really anchors me to a very
82
00:05:27.009 --> 00:05:30.930
different viewpoint from day one, where
I'm like, this product was taught to
83
00:05:30.089 --> 00:05:33.529
me by people who use it,
who think it's x. You think it's
84
00:05:33.569 --> 00:05:36.240
xplus. Why? But they don't
get that why part. Neither do I,
85
00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.839
because I learned it through their eyes. So yeah, you can start
86
00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.160
with engaged users and you work your
way out of that two ones that are
87
00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.160
less engaged, and typically there's a
theme that comes out of that very quickly.
88
00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:53.629
And then you doing this recently at
stratify. Are you talking to ten
89
00:05:53.709 --> 00:05:57.230
customers, twenty customers? What's kind
of a Ballpark of what folks should shoot
90
00:05:57.230 --> 00:06:00.230
for in terms of how many conversations
and you'd have? Yeah, the the
91
00:06:00.350 --> 00:06:02.589
errant idea would be like as many
as possible, but it's not quite the
92
00:06:02.709 --> 00:06:06.339
case because eventually you do want to
have some patterned recognition and just read the
93
00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:12.259
signs and then dismiss the outliers for
just that. So for me it's usually
94
00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:15.339
like ten to fifteen is usually the
spot where I'm like okay, and I've
95
00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:19.050
got the recurring themes and I can
I can understand what was the outlier and
96
00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:23.370
what wasn't. So that one earlier
conversation was just a little bit weird,
97
00:06:23.410 --> 00:06:27.170
because the other seven after that we're
pretty much like the the first one and
98
00:06:27.490 --> 00:06:30.370
and kind of get those those things
going. And once you've got those general
99
00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:32.720
themes, you're just beating a dead
horse that point like the vision returns.
100
00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:38.839
Yep, all right. So your
step two here in this action plan is
101
00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:43.720
to map the buyers journey to the
sales process elaborate on that force. Yeah,
102
00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.230
so you've got this idea right now. Now you've learned the product of
103
00:06:46.310 --> 00:06:50.670
the customers eyes and and what's interesting
is that the buyers journeys universal, no
104
00:06:50.750 --> 00:06:54.670
matter what we're dealing with, and
it's something that I wasn't taught as a
105
00:06:54.790 --> 00:06:58.350
seller very early on. It was
years later on that I finally learned the
106
00:06:58.350 --> 00:07:00.029
buyers journey, which is kind of
weird because that's our business, right.
107
00:07:00.069 --> 00:07:06.779
Yeah, but the buyers journeys universal. It's unaware, aware consideration evaluation decision.
108
00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:10.660
So whether it's a stick, a
gum, a house, a piece
109
00:07:10.699 --> 00:07:14.259
of software, whatever it is,
we go through these five steps. So
110
00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:17.649
can we map our sales process to
that buyers journey and how we took these
111
00:07:18.089 --> 00:07:23.970
ten or fifteen customers from never hearing
our product to making a decision and buying
112
00:07:23.970 --> 00:07:29.009
get using it right and starting with
that, because no matter whether it's an
113
00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.279
and be mid market or enterprise,
sales cycle or product, it's still the
114
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:39.720
same five steps. So yes,
our sales process will change based on deal
115
00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:43.879
size, based on, you know, the mixture of products and price point
116
00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.230
and so on, we're still having
to take them through those five basic steps.
117
00:07:47.790 --> 00:07:53.110
Got It. And so you're by
looking at those five steps, looking
118
00:07:53.110 --> 00:07:58.899
at what the current buyers journey or
how your how your team is currently thinking
119
00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:03.100
about the sales process, and then
mashing those together. So I'm assuming you're
120
00:08:03.139 --> 00:08:07.779
making a lot of changes right now
in this stage of you being at stratify,
121
00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:11.540
or are you making a lot of
changes to the sales process itself?
122
00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:15.649
has on the clarity you have around
those five things. Absolutely right. I
123
00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:18.370
mean it's like when you put up
those five and think of it like this.
124
00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:20.370
For those I want to be really
tactical, you'd make a spreadsheet with
125
00:08:20.410 --> 00:08:24.250
those five steps and you say to
yourself, our customers told us the way
126
00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:28.720
they learned about us was here,
the way they decided to buy was here,
127
00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.920
and then what they're doing after is
here. So you put that up
128
00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:33.200
there and then you say, now, how can I take other people through
129
00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.879
that exact same funnel? And you
look at what you're doing today as a
130
00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:39.960
sales process and you see those gaps. And then, as well, you
131
00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.070
look at the tools that you have, whether it's the white papers that you've
132
00:08:43.070 --> 00:08:48.389
got, your website, your your
leads, your your email and sequencing,
133
00:08:48.429 --> 00:08:52.429
and you say, is the message
that I'm putting through all of these channels
134
00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:56.899
the same that the customer told me
that they went through and their buyers journey?
135
00:08:56.100 --> 00:09:00.860
If it's not, guess what,
you're not doing a very good job.
136
00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:05.580
If it is, great and optimize
and so so that that speaks to
137
00:09:05.620 --> 00:09:09.090
see a question I didn't ask you
with that step one of like what does
138
00:09:09.129 --> 00:09:13.409
this conversation actually look like with the
customers? And it sounds like the answer
139
00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:18.690
is found in step to your with
the conversation you're having with customers is walk
140
00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.289
me through these five. You know, these five parts of your buying process
141
00:09:22.330 --> 00:09:26.879
or your buyers journey? Yes,
so that you now have that insight to
142
00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.559
go reshape what your sales process needs
to look less. Exactly right? That's
143
00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.759
exactly right. It's literally an interview. I tell them I would love to
144
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:39.350
interview you and understand how you went
from unaware to decision on our product.
145
00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:43.029
All use the actual words and I'll
kind of guide them like this is the
146
00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:45.590
format I'm looking forth. That makes
sense, and they're like, oh,
147
00:09:45.590 --> 00:09:46.789
yeah, totally, because we all
know it. Right, we're like,
148
00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:50.990
never heard of you, guys.
So and so emailed me, jumped on
149
00:09:50.149 --> 00:09:54.340
too. Look at it was interesting
talk to my you know, we all
150
00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:56.220
know those steps. Yep. So
how what can you walk us through?
151
00:09:56.259 --> 00:10:01.059
Maybe one or two changes that you've
made so Farar at stratusfy after going through
152
00:10:01.059 --> 00:10:05.659
this process? Yeah, one of
the big ones was that we changed particularly
153
00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:11.049
who we want to focus on selling
to and why. Like hearing the customers.
154
00:10:11.210 --> 00:10:13.769
They were some that just simply didn't
get the product the way we wanted
155
00:10:13.889 --> 00:10:16.889
them to and some that seemed there. We're getting it a lot better,
156
00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:20.370
right, and I think that's common
for any for any business. We ask
157
00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.840
ourselves why? We looked at the
buyers journey. It was like it just
158
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:30.360
makes more sense for this second group
versus this first crew, why they're getting
159
00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.480
the product more. And I went
back and I said, WHAT'S OUR ICP?
160
00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.110
What have you guys defined it as
the definition the profile didn't match what
161
00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:41.429
we were seeing from the biers journey. So I was the first big change.
162
00:10:41.509 --> 00:10:45.549
And then the second one was the
sales process. We said, how
163
00:10:45.830 --> 00:10:50.419
easy is it then for that customer
to go through our sales process today?
164
00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:54.299
The answer was not very easy.
Like we were there was a pre existing
165
00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.820
process there that was catered for a
lot of people that was kind of generic,
166
00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:03.330
and I'm like, well, guess
what, those that generic funnel isn't
167
00:11:03.409 --> 00:11:07.889
servicing the one that we know love
our product most. Right, so it's
168
00:11:09.009 --> 00:11:13.409
okay if we don't service well the
other groups because they're not our priority and
169
00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:16.730
they don't get our product anyway.
So we can stand on firm ground.
170
00:11:18.129 --> 00:11:20.279
What was it that was a part
of your sales process that was geared toward
171
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.840
a more generic or audience? Was
it just the content that was being delivered
172
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.000
from the strs and their outbound motion
or like, what was it that that
173
00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:33.070
was off there? It was that
it was the follow up to the first
174
00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:35.590
conversations. You get someone on the
phone, you explain the product, you
175
00:11:35.669 --> 00:11:39.629
want to get them on a demo, and what we did was we just
176
00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:43.029
did this sort of very generic,
bland demo and then try to go for
177
00:11:43.110 --> 00:11:48.019
a close. What we change was
we wanted to be able to do a
178
00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:50.379
value add step in there. That
caused a little bit of friction to show
179
00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:54.620
commitment to the buying cycle. Or
we ask them for a model portfolio that
180
00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:58.100
they have that we would run an
analysis on and that would be the need
181
00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:01.690
of the second conversation. And we
found that if you do that, the
182
00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.210
people who care to share that,
the people who think that way, are
183
00:12:05.330 --> 00:12:09.370
our ideal buyers, and the people
that would be resistant to that second step
184
00:12:09.690 --> 00:12:13.210
it, wouldn't care and just want
to go straight to demo, are not
185
00:12:13.370 --> 00:12:18.120
our buyers. That is a really
interesting step to put in there, like
186
00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.639
purposely adding friction, because you know
that that friction maps to somebody who's ultimately
187
00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:26.919
going to see more success from your
product and use it more. So I
188
00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:30.669
am we think of it as friction, but they think of it as value
189
00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:33.509
right, because they're thinking, oh, you're going to do a free analysis
190
00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:35.549
for me on a model portfolio?
Sure, because if you're the right customer,
191
00:12:35.669 --> 00:12:37.669
you love that. If you're the
wrong customer, you're like what,
192
00:12:37.870 --> 00:12:41.590
I can? I just see it? Yep, Yep, that I love
193
00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:45.419
that you shared that. Okay.
So step three on this action plan is
194
00:12:45.500 --> 00:12:50.019
to listen to sales demos and document
the gap. Talk to us about that.
195
00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.820
Yep. So, like you've got
this idea, you create this framework,
196
00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:56.059
you've got the document. Now,
man, you go go to the
197
00:12:56.139 --> 00:12:58.850
sellers calls, the current or prior
ones that have been recorded, and just
198
00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:03.809
see what are we doing right?
Are we talking the language that the customers
199
00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:09.210
told us or are we not?
And just pinpoint where those areas go off
200
00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:11.690
the rails. And there were there
were several right, like there were parts
201
00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:16.960
of the product that the sellers were
demoing that the customers never even brought up,
202
00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.080
that they just simply don't care about. And it feels good for us
203
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.399
as sellers because you know the bells
and whistles and it's the shiny parts,
204
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.029
but nobody was using it the way
that it was intended. Right. So
205
00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:30.990
it's like you could, you can
demo it all you want, guys,
206
00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:33.429
but nobody's talking about those things.
Nobody's using it in the product. They're
207
00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:37.629
over here this area. So if
eighty percent of your demos and spent here,
208
00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:41.059
then you're not doing an effective demo. Yes, yes, I love
209
00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:46.139
that. Okay, number four,
talk to potential customers and understand their world
210
00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:50.620
view. Yeah, so this is
like this is a hard lesson learned.
211
00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.860
I made this big mistake. You
can do all this and and try to
212
00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:58.529
build a great process, but the
reality is talking to your customers is only
213
00:13:58.570 --> 00:14:03.250
one angle. It's a very valuable
one, but your potential buyers are a
214
00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:09.009
much bigger part of the universe in
your current customers and going to them and
215
00:14:09.129 --> 00:14:11.679
just hearing from them directly, not
in a sales so, like I'm talking
216
00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.879
about, think of it like go
find somebody that would be a buyer of
217
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:18.960
yours and ask to interview them and
tell them you'd pay them for an hour.
218
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.919
Don't even bring up your product right, just literally talk to them about
219
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.750
their world, so that they're not
even biased to think why you're doing this
220
00:14:26.909 --> 00:14:30.830
engagement in particular like that because there's
a product you want to sell them.
221
00:14:30.909 --> 00:14:33.389
Do it actually just to learn their
their world. And when you do that,
222
00:14:33.470 --> 00:14:39.019
that gives you like this secondary perspective
of like okay, now I can
223
00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:43.340
see, completely removed from the product, how they get the job done today
224
00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:50.740
and how we're going to communicate why
that job that they're getting done today is
225
00:14:50.899 --> 00:14:54.090
not going to be enough as the
world changes, got as things change.
226
00:14:54.610 --> 00:14:58.370
So what just to give a little
bit more content next to that so people
227
00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.690
can understand how should they be framing
that interview with potential customers, because they
228
00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:07.279
obviously can't talk to them about what
their buyers journey was because people haven't bought
229
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.879
from them yet. So it's there's
a completely different conversation than the conversation we
230
00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.720
alluded to a few steps ago.
Can you walk us through what the questions
231
00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:20.559
were that you asked in the stratisfy
context? Yeah, so for the people
232
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.830
and I went to some people that
we knew just personally that were wealth advisors
233
00:15:24.870 --> 00:15:28.870
right, that weren't weren't buying from
us, which was great because it's like
234
00:15:28.909 --> 00:15:31.429
I got a connection, I can
just talk to them and I was just
235
00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:33.509
asking questions like look, I'm completely
new to the world of wealth tech.
236
00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:37.139
I don't know much about it.
Here's the things that I keep hearing from
237
00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:41.500
themes of other people that I've spoken
to. What's happening in your world right
238
00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.779
now? I like, those things
real, are they not? Would you
239
00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:48.220
care about them? And then getting
into the workflow, because it's always like
240
00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:50.450
the jobs to be done. So
I'm like, okay, now walk me
241
00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:54.929
through your world. You get graded
on what? Okay, and then those
242
00:15:54.929 --> 00:16:00.610
Kpis translate to what great, okay, and like give me, example,
243
00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:04.559
somebody WHO's failing. What's the difference
between them and yourself? Fantastic, right,
244
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.759
and I get those details and it's
all like work for related. It's
245
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.240
like so when you go and try
to find your customer, how do you
246
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.440
do it today? What's working and
what's not? It's not relate to my
247
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.830
product, but I want to know
that workflow because that's how I want to
248
00:16:18.870 --> 00:16:21.590
talk to them, because I want
them to be like almost freaked out when
249
00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:22.509
I first speak to them because like
Oh my God, you like no,
250
00:16:22.789 --> 00:16:26.029
you know my details. Like if
somebody joined this call right now, I
251
00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:27.750
was like hey, guys, want
to know co calling practice. Are Like,
252
00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:30.789
Oh, they know what we talked
about, they know they know our
253
00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:33.860
world. So, yeah, I
want that same effect happening when you talk
254
00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:37.460
to your to your prospects. Yeah, and that's that's what I've loved so
255
00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:44.059
much about doing podcasts like this is
by interview, like we interview you potential
256
00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:47.730
buyers all the time on the show, and so being able to speak their
257
00:16:47.769 --> 00:16:52.889
language and understand their perspective. We
very rarely talk about what we do,
258
00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:56.730
which is podcasting, with VP's of
marketing that we have on these shows.
259
00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:00.090
But because we don't talk about what
we do, we're talking about them,
260
00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:03.480
we're talking about what the challenge is
that they're facing, how they're overcoming them.
261
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:08.160
It allows us to empathize and makes
them actually want to buy from us
262
00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.160
when it's it's time to get to
that conversation. So in the same way,
263
00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:15.680
I mean you're you're basically saying go
out, like don't even think about
264
00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:18.910
trying to, you know, pitch
these guys on the on the end of
265
00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.029
these phone calls, like that's not
that's the farthest thing from what you're trying
266
00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:23.470
to do. You really just want
to probably go have, I don't know,
267
00:17:25.029 --> 00:17:30.259
ten conversations completely independent and just understanding
all these different nuances that it's taken
268
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:33.539
us, I mean it's taken us
a lot of episodes to figure that stuff
269
00:17:33.539 --> 00:17:37.460
out because we weren't as focused as
what you're doing. You're going into these
270
00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:41.460
conversations with the specific goal in mind
of I want to understand like how do
271
00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:45.130
you acquire customers? What the success
look like? What kpis are you being
272
00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:48.369
measured by? And I don't think
it's going to take a thousand conversations for
273
00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:52.410
you to land there. I feel
probably similar to what you said earlier.
274
00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:56.450
And there's there's a point of diminishing
returns. Yes, for sure, that
275
00:17:56.569 --> 00:18:00.559
definitely is, and it's a hard
lesson learned because in the early days I
276
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.880
didn't do that. I ignored that
piece of it and then I would just
277
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.519
try to talk my customers language to
a noncustomer, and that gets lost in
278
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.680
translation because that also has a curse
of knowledge. Right, Yep, my
279
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.349
customers are talking to me because they
already know my product, they're already familiar
280
00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:18.069
with me, so they're going to
skew, they're going to be cognitively biased
281
00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:21.269
in that conversation a bit because they
know what I'm trying to get out of
282
00:18:21.309 --> 00:18:23.029
them. Right, yeah, when
I talk to somebody that has no clue
283
00:18:23.029 --> 00:18:27.460
what I do and I'm just trying
to learn their world, that that's filters
284
00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:32.460
a lot of that bias out.
I love it. Okay, so we've
285
00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:36.420
gone through the first four steps.
So talking to as many customers as possible,
286
00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:40.099
and that step one, mapping the
buyers journey to the sales process,
287
00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:45.170
listening to your sales demos and documenting
the gap. Then talking to potential customers
288
00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:48.650
and understanding their world view. This
fifth one build the narrative, the story
289
00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:52.849
arc of the check, of the
changing world, threat and promise land.
290
00:18:53.250 --> 00:18:57.359
Talk to us about this, because
this this feels very marketing. Ask to
291
00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.400
me. So I'm curious how you've
integrated with the head of marketing at stratisfy
292
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.480
or if you have it all to
do this. So I this is a
293
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.000
guy give Kudos to. This is
all rain Andy Raskin love his stuff.
294
00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:11.829
Yeah, don't follow or read his
stuff, you have to. That's the
295
00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:17.269
way he talks about. Narrative is
so critical and I've just seen the most
296
00:19:17.309 --> 00:19:19.990
successful startups I've been at really nail
that narrative right, where everybody's just talking
297
00:19:21.109 --> 00:19:23.859
the same way. And this is
the idea of like you should have a
298
00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:29.660
lot of data at this point,
like it should be really clear and what
299
00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:33.900
you want to identify is. Here's
the world today. Here's the change that's
300
00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:37.220
happening that I'm hearing from a lot
of people, the thing that they're all
301
00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.849
going to resonate with. They all
understand. And guess what, Here's the
302
00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:45.609
potential threat that you haven't thought about. It's kind of come from this changeing
303
00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:48.930
work. Going to be winners or
losers. Are you going to be on
304
00:19:48.089 --> 00:19:52.849
that side or on this side when
that occurs? And once you, once
305
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.119
you get them in that mode,
right, that's limbic brain messaging. That's
306
00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:00.039
the fighter fight messaging. That the
messaging that brings out an emotional connection where
307
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.319
we hear a story and gets through
the center of that story. Is it's
308
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.029
then right there, the nighting shining
arm and that story. They're the one
309
00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:11.950
going through the Joseph Campbell Story Arc
right, and we are Merlin giving them
310
00:20:11.950 --> 00:20:15.109
the magic sword that's going to help
them slay the Dragon. Right, this
311
00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:19.269
change is vicious. Winners or losers
are going to come from it. What
312
00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:22.819
side do you want to be on? This is the promised land and here's
313
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.900
a way to get there. We
think we've got a way to get there.
314
00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:30.700
Do you agree? And if people
agree to that big story, like
315
00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:34.019
they see the world in your in
your view. They understand that? Then,
316
00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:38.009
do you know? The the features, the bells and whistles, the
317
00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:41.009
it's all just going to be most
makes it a moot point. Yeah,
318
00:20:41.089 --> 00:20:45.170
yeah, it's all just gravy at
that point. Yep, and and know,
319
00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:48.650
and you're askin share, share that
deck. Think it was the Zora
320
00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:52.559
deck. Yes, that really illustrates
the what you just said. There that
321
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.960
here's here's the problem. You're going
to land on either side of it.
322
00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:00.240
Which side you want to land on? Here's what we think. The solution
323
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.160
is to get you to land on
the right side of history. Really exactly
324
00:21:03.509 --> 00:21:07.950
and speaking about it at that high
level as you were talking. You know,
325
00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:11.630
Donald Miller talks about this a lot
in his book building a story brand
326
00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:18.309
and so just very similar like understanding
narrative and storytelling and the fact that we
327
00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:22.259
are not the hero. Our customer
is the hero. We are the Yoda.
328
00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.779
That totally the why, you know, the wise sage kind of side
329
00:21:26.859 --> 00:21:30.420
character in the story. You know, the hardest part about it to James
330
00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:34.329
is that it's really unnatural to think
that way. But yeah, I just
331
00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:37.490
want to give props to all the
sellers out there there in the trenches right
332
00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:41.769
now. Because, guess what,
we're naturally egocentric, like I'm the center
333
00:21:41.809 --> 00:21:44.250
of my world, you're the center
of yours, like that's our minds thing.
334
00:21:44.609 --> 00:21:48.839
It is unnatural to put somebody else, especially a stranger, as a
335
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.720
center of the world. So it
might sound like it makes sense, guys,
336
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.000
but I'm just like to all the
listeners just be aware. It is
337
00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.400
very natural to regress and make yourself
the night in shining armor. It's a
338
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.349
really easy to do that because it's
natural to do so. Did you have
339
00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:07.069
a lot of friction? Were you
working with the marketing side of the house
340
00:22:08.150 --> 00:22:11.269
when you were coming up with this
narrative, or did you have a lot
341
00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:14.549
of a town of Mey to figure
this out on your own? I unfortunately
342
00:22:14.589 --> 00:22:18.140
had a lot of autonomy. But
you know, I think it's because it's
343
00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:21.140
a younger startup, so it's a
little bit easier just to be more flexible
344
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:23.660
and agile that kind of stuff.
But yeah, yeah, I can imagine
345
00:22:23.740 --> 00:22:27.539
in a larger organization there might be, you know, political interest and so
346
00:22:27.700 --> 00:22:30.529
and all that kind of stuff that
would make cause some friction to do something
347
00:22:30.650 --> 00:22:33.809
like that. But the output is
it was so clear. It's so clean
348
00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:37.849
when you've got that story and it
makes the sales of marketing messaging so much
349
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:41.049
more impactful and mean you see it
with like brands like Gong and drift and
350
00:22:41.130 --> 00:22:45.960
others. Right. They've coined these
phrases, they've created these like market niches
351
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.960
and now you just know them by
those stories. Yeah, yeah, I
352
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:52.920
think your spot on. And and
to look at the sex. I mean,
353
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.400
you see what it's terminus did the
same thing with ABM. Yes,
354
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.150
you see, gainsight did the same
thing with customer success. You're seeing it
355
00:23:00.349 --> 00:23:04.750
over and over again with these SASS
companies that are now synonymous with these terms.
356
00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:07.309
I mean you we talked a lot
about category creation. We have an
357
00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:14.819
entire category creation series on this show
hosted by John Rougie, and it's powerful.
358
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.299
Do you want to speak a little
bit to once you've developed that narrative
359
00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:22.779
in that story, where, where
have you injected that in the sales process?
360
00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:26.529
Everywhere, everywhere I can go.
I mean the cold emails are that
361
00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:30.690
story. They're not. They're not
like you know, they're like here's a
362
00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:33.930
change. Do you agree? You
know, that's the cold email and then
363
00:23:33.930 --> 00:23:38.569
the cold email like first first touch
in the second touches, like this change
364
00:23:38.730 --> 00:23:41.480
is going to bring around these threats. Have you seen that? You're for
365
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.000
yourself. And then, like the
third emails, then some sort of call
366
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.519
to action, like we've seen customers
similar to you accomplish these things. Is
367
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:55.079
that something you'd be interested in?
So it's all oriented to that. The
368
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.309
marketing is all wear into that.
The white papers and the white page is
369
00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:02.549
all that stuff. They're all oriented
to that. Got It. So home
370
00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:06.789
page of the website, cold emails, your I would imagine, your paid
371
00:24:06.829 --> 00:24:11.299
advertising is aligned to that messaging.
It's all cohesive. But if you don't
372
00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:14.619
do the work of actually building that
narrative, then you're going to have a
373
00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:19.299
hodge podge, hot podgy collection of
stuff that's not singing the same tune.
374
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:25.490
Okay, so step six. Here
we've got prototype to fail and build the
375
00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:30.450
sales process based on ICP. Particularly
interested in the prototype to fail. Elaborate
376
00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:33.529
on this idea for us. Yeah, so I got this idea in my
377
00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.210
ear very long time ago in art
that trying it, and I was selling
378
00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:40.839
to start ups and talking to a
lot of technical founders and they always brought
379
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.680
up this idea of like, I
want to spend two weeks doing something and
380
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.680
find out it doesn't work, then
spending two months doing three things and not
381
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:51.960
being sure about any of them.
Writing. I want that prototype to film.
382
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.589
Mentality, and this kind of goes
back to Google's project oxygen and the
383
00:24:55.630 --> 00:24:59.789
whole idea around psychological safety is one
of the key attribers of performing team.
384
00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:03.029
It's okay to failures great. No
is awesome. Like knowing what not to
385
00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:07.539
do is extremely valuable, especially in
the early days of a start up where
386
00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:11.420
there's more questions and answers. So
sometimes it's hard to find the right answer
387
00:25:11.420 --> 00:25:14.740
and it's easy to find what the
wrong answer is. That's still pretty valuable.
388
00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:17.980
So I always tell my team like, if we're going to do it
389
00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:19.259
or all going to do it together, we're all going to do it for
390
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:22.890
like two weeks and we're going to
do nothing else but that thing and with
391
00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:26.049
that full conviction, we're going to
have a really clear answer at the end
392
00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:29.769
of it, and it's totally fine
if it turns out it wasn't right,
393
00:25:30.009 --> 00:25:33.329
because we only spent two weeks doing
it right. It's not a heavy sun
394
00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:37.400
cost and now we can warn everyone
that comes after us to never do that
395
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:40.880
thing again. Yes, yeah,
so, so how does that then connect
396
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:44.799
to the second part of that,
which is building the sales procetest based on
397
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.599
ICP? Yeah, so, once
you've got all this information, it should
398
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.829
be really clear what your ideal customer
profile should be. Right. We've talked
399
00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:55.509
to customers, we've talked to non
customers, we've got a narrative and now
400
00:25:55.549 --> 00:25:59.670
we need to go test that narrative
and make sure that those non buyers right.
401
00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:03.509
That target adjustable market. We narrow
it down to the ICP and are
402
00:26:03.589 --> 00:26:06.420
they nodding their heads when we tell
them the story or they not getting it?
403
00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:10.339
And we got to do it fast
and furious, because if it doesn't
404
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:12.259
work again we're going in full conviction. We got to pivot. then.
405
00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:15.779
What is it? Where did we
miss? What? Is there something else
406
00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:18.410
that we weren't thinking about? If
it's landing, but not like with the
407
00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:22.569
same impact that we want, like
they're not. They're nodding their heads,
408
00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:25.369
but there's kind of like a little
bit of disagreement there. Why? What
409
00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:29.529
part of it's not right? So
it's getting really aggressive at that stage with
410
00:26:29.609 --> 00:26:34.119
the messaging and going full in to
make sure that it actually resonates right and
411
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.799
if it doesn't for whatever reason.
You got to get those tweaks and quick
412
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.519
because the worst thing to do is
like coin of phrase or do all this
413
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:45.720
narrative stuff and have it like have
it kind of had people with their head
414
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:51.069
scratching. I mean that's like like
you're going to waste so much time doing
415
00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:55.269
that. Yep, Yep, you're
totally right. And I think because there's
416
00:26:55.269 --> 00:27:00.109
so many people talking about category or
creation now, I'm now starting to hear
417
00:27:00.230 --> 00:27:03.380
kind of the the flip side of
the coin and other people say that like
418
00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:07.220
hey, category creation isn't for everybody. You everybody shouldn't be trying to figure
419
00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.980
out how to coin a phrase,
because I'm sure, I'm sure that's coming
420
00:27:11.019 --> 00:27:14.380
from either them trying to do it
and it hasn't it hasn't worked out the
421
00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:15.410
way they've done it, or they
haven't been willing to pivot. I like
422
00:27:15.609 --> 00:27:21.049
that. You you talk about like
it's that prototype to fail mentality, knowing
423
00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:22.930
that like, Hey, we're taking
a stab at this, but it might
424
00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:26.769
not be right coming out of the
gate. We've got a we've got a
425
00:27:26.170 --> 00:27:29.650
have a thesis and then we've got
to go talk to a bunch of people
426
00:27:29.769 --> 00:27:33.240
and then validate whether we're on the
right track or not, and being that
427
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.559
willingness to adjust, I think,
is going to be really important. There
428
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:41.559
the steps. This seventh step here
is around pricing strategy. Can you talk
429
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.109
to us about this one? Yeah, so, like at this stage right,
430
00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:48.430
if we're doing this right, we're
going in hardcore, with full conviction,
431
00:27:48.630 --> 00:27:52.750
with one thing for like a concentrated
period. And I say two weeks,
432
00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:53.750
but it doesn't be two weeks in
me. If everybody it's different.
433
00:27:53.789 --> 00:27:57.029
So just know that, but two
weeks is what I just say. Now
434
00:27:57.190 --> 00:28:00.420
it's like you. If it works, you're going to get engagement. People
435
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.779
are going to want to talk about
what the product costs. Naturally, like
436
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:07.700
they're going to be interested. Okay, you've sold me. I see this
437
00:28:07.900 --> 00:28:10.339
world the way you do, I
see the threat the way you do and
438
00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:11.970
I'm interested in the promise line.
How do I do it? And the
439
00:28:12.049 --> 00:28:17.970
biggest mistake that I guess startups will
do often times is their pricing is based
440
00:28:18.009 --> 00:28:22.410
on their products best interests, not
the language of the buyer. And what's
441
00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:27.920
interesting is this idea perceived versus actual
value. So actual value is, for
442
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:33.920
example, what my product delivers to
you. Perceived value is for example,
443
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.119
you bundle your product in such a
way where I can buy certain features as
444
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:42.589
a package that I find valuable but
cost nothing to your business. Right.
445
00:28:44.109 --> 00:28:47.829
So, for example, when we
sold session replay, I worked in session
446
00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:52.029
replay space. Spending up a second
instance for somebody to record further sessions on
447
00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:56.339
their Dev environment cost us nothing,
but to our customers that was a perceived
448
00:28:56.380 --> 00:29:00.099
value to be able to have a
pricing package that included the ability to have
449
00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:04.900
multiple instances. Now, the startup
never priced that way, right, because
450
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:07.900
to us it was like, oh, sure, if you want it,
451
00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:10.849
go ahead, but to them they're
like, Oh, is it included?
452
00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:14.130
Does it cost extra? I was
like wait, if you're willing to pay
453
00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:18.289
for it, I'm willing to bundle
you if you think that's valuable. Hey,
454
00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:22.089
yes, I will charge for it. Let's go right. Yeah,
455
00:29:22.569 --> 00:29:25.759
I'm just want to I just want
to make you feel like you got value
456
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.119
and if that's makes you feel like
you got value, then let's do it.
457
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:32.119
Yep, right. Meanwhile, you
know, the productor engineering team thinks
458
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.359
it's ridiculous because of like what is
it? It's just like, you know,
459
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.680
it's our internal little APP and you
just, you know, do a
460
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:38.910
little switch and they get another one. I'm like, doesn't matter, they
461
00:29:38.910 --> 00:29:44.150
want to pay two hundred a month
for that. Yep. So, yeah,
462
00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:45.589
you know, so let's let them. So you have to put it
463
00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:49.789
in the buyers language, right.
Another thing that else is common is,
464
00:29:49.829 --> 00:29:56.099
like people will have their seat types
named after like generic things like user Admin,
465
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.339
you know, something like that.
It's like name the seats the way
466
00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:02.259
the teams are constructed, at the
buyer that you sell to. Like in
467
00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:07.450
our world of wealth advisors, there's
financial planners, there's advisors, there's financial
468
00:30:07.450 --> 00:30:10.569
analysts. So guess what our seats
are named after? Well, you have
469
00:30:10.650 --> 00:30:14.329
an advisor seat, have a financial
planner seat, you have an analyst.
470
00:30:14.849 --> 00:30:18.049
Right now, technically it's just user
Admin, but we never we don't use
471
00:30:18.130 --> 00:30:22.119
that language because nobody wants to buy. It doesn't feel customize, it doesn't
472
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.240
feel like it was a proposal for
me when I'm just looking at three admin
473
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.799
seats and two users. Yes,
it feels like you know me when you
474
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.319
actually price it based on my team
composition. We did a proposal a few
475
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:40.910
months ago and we we structured the
different pricing tiers by different levels of marketing
476
00:30:40.950 --> 00:30:44.789
thought leaders. We obviously sell to
marketers. So like you had the Matt
477
00:30:44.829 --> 00:30:48.230
Hinds Package, you had the Gary
v package, you had that, and
478
00:30:48.430 --> 00:30:52.259
so we got some really good feedback. We have it applied that pricing across
479
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:55.099
the board. But it's interesting to
hear you say that because I think we
480
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.420
might need to revisit how we people
love it. Yeah, to do it's
481
00:30:57.460 --> 00:31:00.339
like, if you know you,
makes me feel like it's snow flake.
482
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:02.859
Yeah, make you feel like it's
snow flick. And why wouldn't you want
483
00:31:02.859 --> 00:31:04.650
your bier to feel like the snowflake? I mean exactly. So. So
484
00:31:04.809 --> 00:31:11.569
step eight here is is to implement
a codified career growth plan. So again,
485
00:31:11.609 --> 00:31:15.369
where this, this entire action plan
is building, you know, the
486
00:31:15.450 --> 00:31:22.240
sales development function within your business or
rebuilding it. If you're in a case
487
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:25.960
where they like you, you're stepping
into an organization and having to reimagine some
488
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.000
things. So implementing a codified career
growth plan. Talk to us about how
489
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:34.349
you've done that. That's stratified.
Yeah, so this is this is probably
490
00:31:34.630 --> 00:31:37.910
so. I got introduced this idea
by Tito Board. I Love I love
491
00:31:38.029 --> 00:31:41.430
is content. He has a lot
of great thought leadership on sales development and
492
00:31:41.549 --> 00:31:45.750
the reality is we always think about
sales of ELM as a steppings into being
493
00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:49.660
in a right, there's a lot
of steps that happen in between. And
494
00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:55.220
what if we made a really great
way for people just to level up on
495
00:31:55.339 --> 00:32:00.579
their own instead of putting in manager
and, you know, business road blocks
496
00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:04.369
of them getting promoted? So why
does everything have to be like one or
497
00:32:04.650 --> 00:32:07.049
one or zero? Right, like
binary? Yes, you can have an
498
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:09.490
str level one, two, three
and four. So the system I created
499
00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:15.130
was like an apprentice and then you
become a full team member and then you
500
00:32:15.289 --> 00:32:19.400
become an expert and then you become
a team lead. Right, and you
501
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.160
can grow into those roles and the
steps are crystal clear. It's like a
502
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.279
checklist, like you don't need me
because you know exactly what you need to
503
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.390
do. Is Step one is like
master to tools, master the messaging.
504
00:32:30.829 --> 00:32:35.349
Step two then becomes can you then
pass some tests on what we think the
505
00:32:35.549 --> 00:32:38.710
written skill the oral skill are to
achieve the numbers that need to be achieved?
506
00:32:39.069 --> 00:32:42.549
You know. Step three then is
like can you master the metrics and
507
00:32:42.589 --> 00:32:45.220
numbers, because in sales of moment
you're not only learning the product in the
508
00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:49.940
space but also just learning how to
be a professional, right, like many
509
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.980
of us take that role very early
on in our careers, so we don't
510
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:54.660
have experience and like what is like
to be in a job, like how
511
00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:58.690
do I how do I work in
Corporate America? So you're learning a lot
512
00:32:58.730 --> 00:33:02.769
of things that once map that just
like write those steps clearly so that people
513
00:33:02.809 --> 00:33:06.769
can do them, like a checklist. And what's beautiful about this is that
514
00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:10.049
in the companies I've implemented this in, I have SDR's coming up to need
515
00:33:10.089 --> 00:33:13.559
telling me, hey, I just
got promoted, Hey, I just finished
516
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:17.240
my checklist, right, because it's
all written down there's it's all. It's
517
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.960
all trackable, either like an LMS
system or wherever, a sawn or whatever
518
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.759
you use, or trail based on
testing that you've developed. So if they
519
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:30.630
backtly nest, they get promoted exactly
exactly and they're excited and it's in their
520
00:33:30.710 --> 00:33:34.150
control. It's like you own this, there's no timeline on it. You
521
00:33:34.230 --> 00:33:36.630
want to take you want to spend
a your hear. Yeah, it's not
522
00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:39.950
contingent on a bias that their boss
has towards them, because it's yeah,
523
00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:44.140
I love that, it's completely in
their control. Yes, yes, so
524
00:33:44.660 --> 00:33:46.940
beautiful system, a highly recommended for
anybody out there thinking of a way to
525
00:33:47.059 --> 00:33:51.460
make it really motivating for strs just
to come in every day and be excited
526
00:33:51.460 --> 00:33:53.259
about what they're doing. And each
step has a change, right. You're
527
00:33:53.259 --> 00:33:58.569
getting a title change as to our
level on two three sire growing and experience.
528
00:33:58.970 --> 00:34:02.089
You're also potentially getting a bump in
pay between each level and your base
529
00:34:02.210 --> 00:34:06.170
pay, or maybe your payout or
both. And then, as well,
530
00:34:06.450 --> 00:34:09.639
you're getting more authority within the team, right, because you know an expert
531
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:15.360
on the team can change the messaging. They have a they have the right,
532
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.079
they've earned the right to be able
to test messaging and be rewarded if
533
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:22.239
they improve the messaging, while an
apprentice as to sit there and learn it.
534
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:23.789
Right, it's like you don't get
an opinion. Yet you got it.
535
00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:27.190
You got to reach a certain level
before you stay given us your opinion.
536
00:34:27.670 --> 00:34:30.829
We want you to respect the process
in the flow. So it's a
537
00:34:30.869 --> 00:34:32.949
really it's a really great can you
walk through those one more time below,
538
00:34:34.190 --> 00:34:37.900
just what the phases are and and
what qualifications are to get to the next
539
00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:43.699
phase? Yes, and and I
have. I have a generic, codified
540
00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:47.179
career growth plan, both in the
depth of left community on bravado and on
541
00:34:47.300 --> 00:34:51.619
my profile and Linkedin. So if
anybody wants to see one, there's a
542
00:34:51.739 --> 00:34:53.449
there's one. It's free. You
could download it. You could see the
543
00:34:53.570 --> 00:34:57.489
exact step by step way. I
call it the str bed, your career
544
00:34:57.610 --> 00:35:00.409
growth plan. But the the initial
steps are prey very simple. So I
545
00:35:00.570 --> 00:35:02.650
like to think of it you can
as a many steps as you want.
546
00:35:02.650 --> 00:35:07.199
I like to think about just having
for for basic steps. So Level one
547
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.159
is the apprentice. Right you come
in your new you're going to be expected
548
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:15.159
to learn how we craft emails,
learn the script that we have for you
549
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.360
and be able to master the tools
before you write, like whether you use
550
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.309
a navigator, whether you have fills
off or outreach, whatever your text.
551
00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:25.550
That is being master of those things
right. The next level, we call
552
00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:29.909
it like a professional rights, and
now you've graduated from my apprentice and pressional
553
00:35:29.949 --> 00:35:34.429
on the team. You've kind of
passed the ramp period. Now you're able
554
00:35:34.630 --> 00:35:37.260
to make calls on your own,
send emails on your own without having anybody
555
00:35:37.699 --> 00:35:42.019
over your shoulder making sure it's good. You should be at this point ready
556
00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:45.900
to read some more advanced material like
winning by design. I love their material
557
00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:52.289
on Sass sales Dr Tldni, six
influencers, fantastic. Even like Andy Raskin's
558
00:35:52.329 --> 00:35:54.769
works on how to do a narrative
pitch, you should be in a better
559
00:35:54.849 --> 00:35:59.730
mindset to to take that material to
the next level. After that you become
560
00:35:59.769 --> 00:36:02.050
an expert. So now you're at
the third level. Now you're given real
561
00:36:02.090 --> 00:36:07.559
autonomy, right, like you can
you can go forth and change the material.
562
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.440
In fact, you'll be rewarded if
the content, if the emails at
563
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:15.920
the script, get better and we
can measure an improvement from the suggestions that
564
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:19.909
you make. At this point as
well, I expect an str bedr to
565
00:36:19.949 --> 00:36:23.269
be getting certifications on their own.
Like learn about the open courses that are
566
00:36:23.309 --> 00:36:28.869
out there and be eager to jump
into those full steam, right. And
567
00:36:28.989 --> 00:36:31.030
then the final levels. Like a
team leader, at this point you've mature
568
00:36:31.230 --> 00:36:36.380
to the to the top level.
You're the authority and fact there are apprentices
569
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:39.500
that are under your guidance and wisdom, right, that you train and that
570
00:36:39.619 --> 00:36:43.659
you manage, and this is a
launching point for your career. Right,
571
00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:47.610
like you can remain in str and
be a top earner on the team and
572
00:36:47.809 --> 00:36:52.170
half sort of the best pay and
the best payout you could become an a
573
00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:54.690
e can become a manager. You
might be exposed to other teams or maybe
574
00:36:54.769 --> 00:36:59.010
this is a jumping point where you
even leave the company, and that's okay,
575
00:36:59.449 --> 00:37:01.119
right, we can. We can
talk about that transition and be open
576
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.039
to it, because we all know
we're not going to live and die,
577
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.719
you know, at the same company. We just saw how it works.
578
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:10.639
Yep, I love that. I
love how you've clearly explained broken down those
579
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:16.710
levels in a way that the SDR, the BDR can feel ownership over their
580
00:37:16.909 --> 00:37:22.550
career growth and not have to be
contingent on someone kind of dubbing them ready
581
00:37:22.670 --> 00:37:27.590
to go to the next step.
It'sself driven and and they can completely own
582
00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:30.340
it. So I love that you
broke that down for us right there.
583
00:37:30.619 --> 00:37:34.340
The last step in this process,
so this this step nine in this action
584
00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:38.699
plan, is to optimize and automate
with a killer tex stack. Talk to
585
00:37:38.739 --> 00:37:42.579
us about this and what this is
looked like for you guys at stratified.
586
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.929
Yeah, so this is this is
an interesting point because early in my sales
587
00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:50.329
career, and I'll let me be
open with all the listeners here, tactically
588
00:37:50.489 --> 00:37:53.090
I'm a pretty bad seller, believe
it or not, like the tactics.
589
00:37:53.329 --> 00:37:59.880
I know people who are incredible,
consummate professional sellers that just blow me out
590
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:04.760
of the water when it comes to
their tactical understanding of sales. But one
591
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:07.440
thing that I do that very few
sellers did very early on my career and
592
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.119
just off for my career, is
I work the heck out of my tech.
593
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.710
Whatever, whatever product I'm given,
I'm going to squeeze every bit of
594
00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:19.389
juice out of it, because the
reality is you can take an average seller
595
00:38:19.750 --> 00:38:24.710
that fully understands their technology and they
will absolutely outproduced an amazing seller that doesn't
596
00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:29.340
use tech, because we are the
bottleneck. When you get right down to
597
00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:34.579
it. The seller's time is the
ultimate bottleneck to your success and if there's
598
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:37.820
a tool that can make you one
point, five to x your normal self
599
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:42.730
and you're not using it fully right, you're going to get past just letting
600
00:38:42.769 --> 00:38:45.369
you know it, get get passed
by people like me who aren't as good
601
00:38:45.809 --> 00:38:47.650
but we just know how to use
the tech. Yeah, so at this
602
00:38:47.849 --> 00:38:52.449
stage usually it's like, okay,
we've got that story, we're delivering,
603
00:38:52.530 --> 00:38:57.639
our pricing seems to make sense and
now we need to turn the faucet off.
604
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.400
I mean it's time to go all
in right, calendars flooded with meetings,
605
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:05.360
cold calling, sessions, whatever we
got to do to make it all
606
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.639
happen. How we got to manage
that flow. Where's the tipping point where
607
00:39:09.190 --> 00:39:14.110
you, as a seller start dropping
the ball? Is it's seventy opportunities?
608
00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:15.829
Is a fifty? Is it a
hundred? Where is it? And can
609
00:39:15.989 --> 00:39:22.150
a text act increase that, increase
our capacity? Right like I can't imagine
610
00:39:22.190 --> 00:39:27.019
an inside sales team not having sales
off or outreacher some tool like that in
611
00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:29.500
today's Day and age. Right like
we can't do it because we know what
612
00:39:29.619 --> 00:39:32.300
it was like before and now,
with this thing, we are just ten
613
00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:36.739
times as sellers we were. Yeah, so can you walk us through?
614
00:39:36.739 --> 00:39:40.250
You mentioned sales off, you know, sales aloft or outreach. You've referred
615
00:39:40.289 --> 00:39:44.170
to going in the past. Maybe
that's part of this, maybe it's not.
616
00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:47.849
What's kind of the kind of the
baseline that that you think? What
617
00:39:47.969 --> 00:39:52.639
should sales text act look like in
any inside sales team, at least for
618
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:58.599
starters? Yeah, and there's a
lot of ways to be to be hacky
619
00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:00.840
right, to do things in a
hackey way. I think you need some
620
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:07.110
video prospecting like social media right now, Linkedin, it's so easy to connect
621
00:40:07.110 --> 00:40:10.469
with somebody and mess up that connection
with like a hard pitch. Right.
622
00:40:10.989 --> 00:40:15.070
So why wouldn't you have something like
Whiskey, are hippo video or like all
623
00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:17.869
the other ones that are out there? Drift now has a video product,
624
00:40:19.150 --> 00:40:22.380
and Bombomb, I think, yeah, bombomb, right, it just whatever
625
00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:24.739
it is, whatever you decide to
choose, but get one. Just make
626
00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:29.900
sure you get one and right when
that connection happens, send them a personalized
627
00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:32.179
video. Right. Just say high
to them. Let them see your face,
628
00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:35.340
let them hear a voice, let
them though you're a person. You
629
00:40:35.380 --> 00:40:37.929
don't need to pitch them anything,
but just tell them. You know what,
630
00:40:37.369 --> 00:40:39.650
we just got a lot of customers
that look like you and it just
631
00:40:39.650 --> 00:40:45.090
seemed to make sense introduce myself.
I'm glad we're connected. Right, you're
632
00:40:45.090 --> 00:40:49.849
already oh, just by doing that
way different than the majority of sellers out
633
00:40:49.849 --> 00:40:52.800
there. Right. So, you
know, there's got to be some video
634
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.360
component in there. There's a lot
of ways to do that. There's got
635
00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:58.599
to be some sort of sales enablement
tool to be able to do the outreach.
636
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:00.599
I just think in today's day and
h too, it's crazy not to
637
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:06.269
have some sort of predictive dialer or
something that can. You know, the
638
00:41:06.309 --> 00:41:08.590
last thing you need is a rep
sitting there doing like monkey work, pressing
639
00:41:08.710 --> 00:41:12.750
like the dials on the phone.
Right. There should be a predictive dialer
640
00:41:12.789 --> 00:41:15.269
that can call two, thirty four
process at the same time and when one
641
00:41:15.309 --> 00:41:19.420
actually picks up, just transfers you
straight to that person. Is that like
642
00:41:19.539 --> 00:41:23.659
a connecting cell or could you share
some offs connect and sell or um connect
643
00:41:23.739 --> 00:41:28.940
leader closed out io has a predictive
dialer. Like there's a bunch of products
644
00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:31.179
out there, but you got to
have one in today's Day and age because,
645
00:41:31.179 --> 00:41:35.610
again, if I'm using that and
another seller isn't, I can do
646
00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:39.369
a hundred dials in an hour,
right and have my three conversations while that
647
00:41:39.449 --> 00:41:43.769
person over there's doing one, fifteen, twenty. Yeah, trying to keep
648
00:41:43.769 --> 00:41:46.320
up. Yeah. So, so
we've talked about video that. Could you
649
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:51.119
shared some tools? They're talked about
a sales enablement, something that allows you
650
00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:54.440
to send those emails. So touch
on outreach, sales offt I think mix
651
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:58.760
Max is in the is in the
exacts and the Vanilla soft is in their
652
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.630
soft is in there. What was
that third one that you predictive dialer,
653
00:42:01.750 --> 00:42:07.590
particularly to give dialing, so connecting
kinnel cell, Yep and anything else that
654
00:42:07.670 --> 00:42:09.550
you think. Man, this is
this is essential in terms of sales.
655
00:42:09.590 --> 00:42:14.989
Texact. I think nowadays as well, it's getting harder and harder to not
656
00:42:15.150 --> 00:42:21.059
have a proposal tool, something like
proposed by or and a doc exactly.
657
00:42:21.739 --> 00:42:25.139
You know, those sort of products
docks and you know you want to automate
658
00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:29.659
as much of the sales function as
possible. I just I don't want to
659
00:42:29.699 --> 00:42:34.170
put any cognitive load on my sales
team when it comes to process. I
660
00:42:34.289 --> 00:42:37.010
want to put the cognitive love on
them when it comes to the deals.
661
00:42:37.289 --> 00:42:42.050
Right, like the process needs to
just be so easy that I could literally,
662
00:42:42.170 --> 00:42:44.360
you know, my wife, who's
never done sales, could walk in
663
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:46.840
and send a proposal right. She
might not stuck at close a deal,
664
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.840
but she could just send it because
the templates are there, she knows how
665
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:52.719
to fill in the blanks and it's
just a send process, right. So
666
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:54.920
you got to have something like that. And of course then a lot of
667
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:59.909
those products will include some sort of
autosignature. But if you want to do
668
00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:02.070
something separate like docu sign, hello
sign, all those sort of products,
669
00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:06.789
but like that's the to me,
the basis of a good text act.
670
00:43:07.230 --> 00:43:09.349
And again, you know you can
go you can get creative from bear.
671
00:43:09.349 --> 00:43:12.630
There's a lot of cool products out
there now, I think, in sales
672
00:43:12.630 --> 00:43:15.219
enablement. But at the very least
you got to have those elements. I
673
00:43:15.340 --> 00:43:19.739
love it wonderful. So I've got
I've got a few questions for you that
674
00:43:19.780 --> 00:43:22.179
I think are going to that are
going to add just add more value to
675
00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:25.500
this conversation. So the the nine
step action plan, I think, is
676
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:29.969
incredibly helpful. But I want to
jam with you a little bit just on
677
00:43:30.090 --> 00:43:34.449
some other ancillary sales development topics,
because I think just based on what I've
678
00:43:34.449 --> 00:43:36.730
seen you put on linked and I'm
curious to hear your take on this.
679
00:43:36.849 --> 00:43:40.840
So what's a common belief about sales
development right now that you just passionately disagree
680
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:46.079
with? Yeah, you know,
there's a few. Big One. I
681
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:50.960
think I hinted on it earlier with
this idea that that the str role should
682
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.079
be a turnover rule, that it's
acceptable for it to be a high turnover
683
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:58.630
rule, that that's just fundamentally flawed. I mean it can be if you
684
00:43:58.710 --> 00:44:01.309
do it wrong. Any role can
be right, but but the reality is
685
00:44:01.869 --> 00:44:07.269
if you create a rewarding, compelling, autonomous environment where people feel like they're
686
00:44:07.269 --> 00:44:09.340
gaining mastery and their job, they're
going to want to do the job,
687
00:44:09.820 --> 00:44:13.380
they're going to want it, they're
going to enjoy coming in every day and
688
00:44:13.460 --> 00:44:15.420
doing it. Now, I don't
expect a company to have, you know,
689
00:44:15.619 --> 00:44:19.260
SDRs that have been in that role
for ten years and not saying that,
690
00:44:19.659 --> 00:44:22.539
but this idea that, like an
str will stay in that role for
691
00:44:22.659 --> 00:44:25.090
nine months Max and then needs to
move on. But we can increase that
692
00:44:25.210 --> 00:44:31.130
time horizon by just being better as
a as sellers, with culture that isn't
693
00:44:31.170 --> 00:44:36.489
based on winning but is based on
moral values. Right, because winning is
694
00:44:36.570 --> 00:44:38.960
an outcome. And guess what?
All these sales teams right now aren't winning.
695
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.400
Well, unless you work at zoom, but, like the rest of
696
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.679
us, aren't winning right now.
So if your culture is based on winning,
697
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:49.559
it just kind of chattered. But
if your code, culture is based
698
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.429
on moral values and doing the right
thing, it's still there. It's in
699
00:44:52.590 --> 00:44:57.309
fact, it's shining right now.
We've been trying to think through a different
700
00:44:57.349 --> 00:45:01.469
function within our team with we're starting
an intern program and the default is to
701
00:45:01.550 --> 00:45:05.510
think that, oh, you know, this intern program they're not going to
702
00:45:05.590 --> 00:45:07.900
stick around for very long. But
as we thought more critically about you know,
703
00:45:08.059 --> 00:45:12.099
how could we get them to stick
around longer? If we invested in
704
00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:15.500
their development? Maybe we made a
some sort of a program that they could
705
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:19.460
graduate from. So in the six
months, maybe we can hold on to
706
00:45:19.539 --> 00:45:22.250
them for six months instead of three
months if we make it a sixmonth and
707
00:45:22.369 --> 00:45:25.929
of Marketing Development Program. So they
love that. You how to write,
708
00:45:27.210 --> 00:45:30.010
how to write it for the Internet, and they we come up with the
709
00:45:30.050 --> 00:45:32.570
curriculum to walk them through and at
the end of it they can put on
710
00:45:32.610 --> 00:45:37.400
the resume that they're a graduate of
the sweet fish, you know, modern
711
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.800
marketing them program like that. That
kind of thinking gets you thinking, how
712
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.119
can I truly add value to this
person? And it goes back to culture,
713
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:50.989
like our number one value is love
people. Well, our second one
714
00:45:51.110 --> 00:45:53.510
is never stopped learning and then our
third one is own the result. And
715
00:45:53.550 --> 00:45:57.869
so when you're thinking how can we
integrate our values into something like this,
716
00:45:58.469 --> 00:46:04.030
you start asking yourself better questions and
you start being able to actually retain your
717
00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:08.860
talent longer, because if your values
really are an extension of your heart,
718
00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:14.260
then then people are going to resonate
with that. That's much stickier than just
719
00:46:14.739 --> 00:46:17.650
win win when like hit your number, and so I love that you brought
720
00:46:17.650 --> 00:46:22.130
that up. I think that's I
think that's love that. That's a great
721
00:46:22.289 --> 00:46:24.210
idea. With like the resume thing. To Man, I wish I had
722
00:46:24.250 --> 00:46:27.690
that one. I was an intern, like my flights are just did that.
723
00:46:28.050 --> 00:46:30.769
Yeah, it's and it's something they
can I was talking about it with
724
00:46:30.929 --> 00:46:32.000
with Timmy on our team the other
day and he was just like man,
725
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:37.239
something that what we need to we
need to talk to talk to these interns
726
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.719
and figure out like what would actually
be valuable to you. And it just
727
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.960
kind of spawned out of like Oh, they they're looking, they're early in
728
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.190
their career, they're looking to add
something to their resume and to be able
729
00:46:47.190 --> 00:46:51.309
to say they are graduate of a
program. That's what Disney does, I
730
00:46:51.389 --> 00:46:54.030
mean that's what the Disney internship program
does. And and he happened to go
731
00:46:54.150 --> 00:46:57.630
through that program. He's like yeah, they call him graduates too. So,
732
00:46:58.269 --> 00:47:00.460
so, looking at what other people
are doing and I just like the
733
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:05.739
thinking of challenging the fact that this
role doesn't have to be a churn and
734
00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:10.139
burn role. Like if you really
invest in in those people and develop them,
735
00:47:10.659 --> 00:47:14.340
then they're going to want US stick
around for a while. And why?
736
00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:19.170
I love having heard that, into
four different like there's four different finish
737
00:47:19.250 --> 00:47:22.050
lines. Basically, it's not just
okay, I'm done being asked, you
738
00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:25.090
are ready to be an ae like, if people are experiencing growth within that
739
00:47:25.210 --> 00:47:29.650
role, it only make sense that
they're going to that they're going to stay
740
00:47:29.730 --> 00:47:34.400
longer. So this next question.
What are some of the most common mistakes
741
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:39.360
will that you see sales leaders making
when it comes to sales development? You
742
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:45.989
know, it's it's interesting because everyone's
trying to I think it I think it
743
00:47:45.030 --> 00:47:49.949
goes back to I've never met a
sales leader that didn't claim that their sales
744
00:47:49.949 --> 00:47:52.150
seema's metric driven or data driven.
Right, like who comes out? It's
745
00:47:52.190 --> 00:47:54.710
like no, we don't care about
that. I here, we're just we're
746
00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:58.980
just wing it. But of course
we know that we're not all data Drivan,
747
00:47:59.059 --> 00:48:01.579
like the whole world isn't, you
know, running efficiently right, otherwise
748
00:48:01.619 --> 00:48:05.579
I think would be in a very
different world. So you know, it's
749
00:48:05.619 --> 00:48:08.380
just not true. And and I
think one of the things that that sales
750
00:48:08.420 --> 00:48:12.500
leaders make as a common stake because
that they assume that, if they track
751
00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:19.050
activity outputs, that that's data driven, which is just like so basic right,
752
00:48:19.210 --> 00:48:22.329
like it's like, yeah, you're
doing arithmetic. I'm trying to are
753
00:48:22.369 --> 00:48:23.849
do do Algebra, you know,
I mean like this, this, you're
754
00:48:23.889 --> 00:48:28.400
not. That's just the start.
The start is how much people do,
755
00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:35.079
right, but efficiency matters. Like, for every for every voicemail you leave
756
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.800
that doesn't get heard, there was
someone's time behind that. Right, for
757
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:43.989
every email that you sent out that
didn't get a response, did you create
758
00:48:44.150 --> 00:48:47.590
negative sentiment because of that? Right, it's just so many things to think
759
00:48:47.590 --> 00:48:52.309
about when you actually get tactically into
it. That's just like. Activity is
760
00:48:52.469 --> 00:48:55.300
just the start. It's the beginning, and efficiency is what matters. I
761
00:48:55.420 --> 00:49:00.780
want sellers that get the job done
with the least amount of work possible.
762
00:49:00.940 --> 00:49:04.420
I love that. That's what I
want. I don't want to hear about
763
00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:07.059
the hard work. I don't want
you to staying glate and slamming another extra
764
00:49:07.059 --> 00:49:12.650
hundred calls. Gracious why? Something's
horribly wrong. You're having to like beat
765
00:49:12.690 --> 00:49:15.329
your head against all. They get
the job done. We are not efficient.
766
00:49:15.369 --> 00:49:19.809
Right. That's not how hypergrowth works. If you study hypergrowth, the
767
00:49:20.010 --> 00:49:25.079
science behind it is efficiency, its
stability to scale with limited sources. Right,
768
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:30.440
you're not going to do that by
just like dialing for dollars and,
769
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:32.320
you know, throwing stuff on the
wall and see what sticks. That untell
770
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:36.760
be so wrong. But again,
you look at the data that these sales
771
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.670
leaders care about and it's like the
basics, it's like table sticks, not
772
00:49:39.829 --> 00:49:44.230
the stuff that actually matters below.
Who are some of the people? You
773
00:49:44.429 --> 00:49:46.670
refer to Tito Board earlier. Who
are some of the other people that you're
774
00:49:46.670 --> 00:49:51.269
learning a lot from as it relates
to sales development? I Love I love
775
00:49:51.309 --> 00:49:53.940
Jack Ravanaki, like winning by design
of all our stuff, Tito board.
776
00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:58.099
A lot of his contents are really, really strong. I Love Todd Capony
777
00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:01.179
in the transparency sale and the stuff
that he talks about, because it's really,
778
00:50:01.219 --> 00:50:05.179
really good things. Those are some
of the top names off by head,
779
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:08.090
unless see if there's any others.
I make everybody read the six influencers,
780
00:50:08.170 --> 00:50:13.130
the psychology persuasion by by Dr Kildd
like that's like you have to know
781
00:50:13.250 --> 00:50:15.690
that to be on my team because
you're not going to understand what I'm saying
782
00:50:15.690 --> 00:50:20.369
if you don't read that. So
I literally summarize the book because I just
783
00:50:20.449 --> 00:50:22.719
didn't expect people to read the book
because I'm like, it's not going to
784
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:24.760
happen. So I literally summarize a
book in the like one page or like
785
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:28.639
a video that I've made, and
I just every sales team I had.
786
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:30.719
I make them all watching and read
it like they want. But I love
787
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:36.949
that of that. This has been
incredible. Below seriously, you've broughtten so
788
00:50:37.030 --> 00:50:39.949
much value on this episode. If
somebody's listening to this, they want to
789
00:50:39.949 --> 00:50:44.309
stay connected with you, what's the
best place for them to do that?
790
00:50:44.949 --> 00:50:49.389
It would be joined the bravado death
of fluff community. You know, we're
791
00:50:49.389 --> 00:50:52.340
pretty active in there. It's seven
hundred people strong and we're trying to build
792
00:50:52.380 --> 00:50:55.739
a coalition of likeminded people. I
get it. I want to do and
793
00:50:55.820 --> 00:51:00.059
see these things implemented either their businesses
or their sales teams. And then the
794
00:51:00.139 --> 00:51:04.369
other place be just on Linkedin.
For sure, like add me there.
795
00:51:04.969 --> 00:51:07.530
This is the stuff I pust about
every single day. Some of it hit,
796
00:51:07.769 --> 00:51:12.449
some of it's miss, but it's
there every day for you. I
797
00:51:12.570 --> 00:51:15.650
can testify to the fact that I
see your stuff pop up and and all
798
00:51:15.730 --> 00:51:19.840
the stuff I'm seeing that's getting to
my news feed is stuff that I am
799
00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:22.440
really aligned with and I think you're
think you're saying a lot of things a
800
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:28.559
lot of people are thinking and they're
not necessarily bold enough to say it because
801
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.800
it's different and it's counter to how
how a lot of us, you know,
802
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.789
are are, have been trained in
hardwired to think about this stuff.
803
00:51:35.590 --> 00:51:38.510
But if you enjoy this episode,
you're definitely going to want to follow billow
804
00:51:38.750 --> 00:51:44.070
on Linkedin because he's dropping fire pretty
much every day. They're so and thank
805
00:51:44.110 --> 00:51:45.909
you so much for your time today. This has been incredible and I really
806
00:51:45.949 --> 00:51:49.420
appreciate it. Blackwise, thanks for
having me. I appreciate it. James,
807
00:51:49.460 --> 00:51:57.139
I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask
their listeners for reviews, but I
808
00:51:57.179 --> 00:52:00.860
get why they do it, because
reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to
809
00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:04.170
grow a podcast audience. So here's
what we decided to do. If you
810
00:52:04.329 --> 00:52:07.769
leave a review for me to be
growth and apple podcasts and email me a
811
00:52:07.849 --> 00:52:12.050
screenshot of the review to James at
Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a
812
00:52:12.210 --> 00:52:15.199
signed copy of my new book,
content based networking, how to instantly connect
813
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:19.159
with anyone you want to know.
We get a review, you get a
814
00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:20.599
free book. We both win