#Sales 2: Sales Cybernetics Defined: How it Replaces Humans with AI w/ Justin Michael

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.429 When you have a competitor and a commodetize SASS product. If you know how 2 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:12.109 to use these sales tech platforms and they don't, you're going to lap the 3 00:00:12.150 --> 00:00:15.029 sellers at your competitor. You're going to build a sales machine and engine. 4 00:00:15.269 --> 00:00:19.870 They're going to be hunting and pecking and you're going to have a howitzer everybody. 5 00:00:20.070 --> 00:00:23.539 Thanks for listening to the sales series on BB growth. I'm your host, 6 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:28.100 Patrick downs, so we've never really talked one on one before, so 7 00:00:28.179 --> 00:00:30.859 I just want to chat with you for a little bit. I've read the 8 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:34.179 First Section of your book. I talked to amy about you quite a bit, 9 00:00:34.219 --> 00:00:37.689 but I'd like to hear about you and your own words. Yeah, 10 00:00:37.890 --> 00:00:42.049 so I've been sort of obsessed with technology my whole life. I have a 11 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:48.770 brother who's an inventor at Google who built a couple different divisions and I kind 12 00:00:48.770 --> 00:00:53.000 of followed him up to Silicon Valley and got started in Sass. My first 13 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:58.359 job was working for Shawn Parker, facebook fame, working on nonprofits as tools 14 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:03.280 with corporations and doing like corporate social responsibility, and I from there ended up 15 00:01:03.310 --> 00:01:07.269 going to salesports, marketing cloud and then working for a vast or array of 16 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:14.709 mobile technology companies. I was always excited about cracking into new business because in 17 00:01:14.829 --> 00:01:17.709 my I just turned forty, but in my late s and mid S I 18 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:22.620 was doing a lot of inside sales and getting excited about SASS new business. 19 00:01:22.659 --> 00:01:26.379 I just started reading all these amazing authors, from jetblood to Mike Wienberg to 20 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:30.780 Jill Conra, and then, once a lot of the theories of what to 21 00:01:30.819 --> 00:01:34.209 do on phone and email came before, I became pretty obsessed on finding every 22 00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:40.129 technique, AC strategy, piece of tech and trying it and I just moved 23 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:42.769 up the ladder. I became a regional vice president of sales, a worldwide 24 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:48.079 leader of sales development team. I was an RVP and dotted line over strs 25 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.200 and over and over and over we were trying to crack the top funnel problem. 26 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.920 There's always like a pipeline that needed work. We always needed to bring 27 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.560 a new stuff of the business, and I even work with a lot of 28 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.390 third party like outsourcers. And so what happened is I had CEOS and VC's 29 00:02:01.469 --> 00:02:06.510 come to me and say you are the best we have ever seen at the 30 00:02:06.590 --> 00:02:09.590 top funnel problem, like getting the fish to the boat and that sort of 31 00:02:09.669 --> 00:02:14.069 just fueled my fire. What happened after that is kind of crazy, as 32 00:02:14.110 --> 00:02:19.219 I was hired to automate everything I do, after thirteen years of Sass experience, 33 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:23.340 in twenty years of sales experience, and to build artificial intelligence and machine 34 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:25.500 learning. And if this, then that rules engines based on how I approach 35 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:30.930 sales linguistics and the decisioning across the sales stack. What I started to see 36 00:02:31.129 --> 00:02:37.250 is that there's largely low adoption and technology avoidance of these platforms. And having 37 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:40.889 sold sales navigator in the Empire State Building and having, you know, consulted 38 00:02:42.009 --> 00:02:46.759 on OPS projects around sales offt and outreach, I realized to crack this problem 39 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.319 we need human and machine to work together, and so I needed to write 40 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.479 a book to help empower people with ever, whatever text act, they have 41 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.639 to master that stack. And then corona a hit. And so there's no 42 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:01.349 more field selling right, don't don't like the movie cliar rings inside. Let's 43 00:03:01.349 --> 00:03:05.270 run in a different way. But the way it's gone is there's no more 44 00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:07.270 field to it's this is it. This is the closest I can get to 45 00:03:07.310 --> 00:03:13.620 you. And so you have a stack slack gmail sheets could be simple stack. 46 00:03:13.699 --> 00:03:15.819 But maybe you got like you're kicking around hub spot and someone has docks 47 00:03:15.939 --> 00:03:19.139 in and there's some yes, we're here, and there's a zoom over there 48 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:22.939 and like the highest growth companies a fifteen percent or spending a thousand dollars a 49 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:27.330 month per person on stack. Right, you've got your naviccount. That's one 50 00:03:27.569 --> 00:03:30.490 costs. And then your engagement. So I step back in a thought like 51 00:03:30.569 --> 00:03:34.370 what is the job of sales? It's your stealing staring at sales navigator and 52 00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:37.449 then you're like, I can't get the street, email and phone numbers, 53 00:03:37.449 --> 00:03:39.250 so I got to go into like Zoom Info, and then I can't just 54 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:43.159 send emails one at a time, so now I need like groove or San 55 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.599 or sales off or overage, some way to automy and dial and then have 56 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.080 to blend all these platforms together. And then you see the like only thirty 57 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.159 six percent of the time, like a third of the time, of a 58 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.909 developed field, celler stre between like travel and Admin, everything is actually doing 59 00:03:57.110 --> 00:04:00.310 this selling to the this actual interaction of the human, human contact is such 60 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:04.509 a small piece. Now we're just almost like analysts of tech. We're just 61 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:10.180 like these manual we're almost limited by the technology. Right. So the book 62 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:13.259 is to become super human by unlocking the text. St Ac. If you're 63 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.660 advanced and you want to take your stuff to the most advanced level, read 64 00:04:15.660 --> 00:04:18.779 the book. If you're just sitting around wanting to get five percent better, 65 00:04:18.939 --> 00:04:23.339 just try this stuff out. It'll help you to kind of crawl walk around. 66 00:04:23.740 --> 00:04:27.769 Yeah, you describe that function that's largely still manual, even despite the 67 00:04:27.850 --> 00:04:30.209 tech, where you're looking at sales and have you have to go to Zem 68 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:32.610 and fucket the information poort into sales. Far Stir, are you seeing some 69 00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:36.610 sort of future where that doesn't need to happen and the sales rep is really 70 00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:41.879 just there for the conversation and the personalization piece, or is that the under 71 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.759 I think the far future, probably mid S is. You have a product 72 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.959 that org they find the MVP, the minimum bile product. They have traction. 73 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:55.310 Okay, this is selling like word of mouth inbound. It's taking off. 74 00:04:55.430 --> 00:05:00.029 It's solving a pain now instead of hiring humans or a virtual str shop 75 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:02.709 off shore, having people run systems for you, which all can be done 76 00:05:02.750 --> 00:05:08.980 now expertly. Then there's there's strings and weaknesses. You could basically implement a 77 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:12.860 piece of automation, sort of like the drift automation BOP. It's it's front 78 00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:15.779 of cipher inbound, but you can go outboun where you give it the ICP, 79 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:18.420 the personas the verbiage and it runs the AB test and its splices together 80 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:21.529 all stuff, sets the me on counter. It does a qualification right. 81 00:05:23.250 --> 00:05:26.769 This is very future steak because when I tried to build it and help spend 82 00:05:26.810 --> 00:05:30.889 millions to do this and had great growth, there's certain aspects where it's just 83 00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:35.319 look like the Linkedin apis closed. They frown upon automating it. So at 84 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:40.399 least the social piece you can automat. There's elements of the reply management. 85 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.240 We're just not there yet. I think in the future we're going to get 86 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.240 there. What I've noticed is if you do open an email and it's come 87 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:51.910 from a machine and it's done right, there's enough personalization, relevance and context, 88 00:05:53.550 --> 00:05:57.870 technographic, psychographic, demographic, it is very hard for me to know 89 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:00.709 that you didn't write that. You could have programmed it, but it could 90 00:06:00.709 --> 00:06:04.819 be a batch or template or could be sitting out of like one to many, 91 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:09.620 but it's so personalized I'm like, yeah, we do have that friend 92 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.939 in common I did work for that company. We do have this pain. 93 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:16.860 It's so like the stuff that I was building and automating was passing the turing 94 00:06:16.899 --> 00:06:19.290 tasks, like people were just taking the meetings and had no idea it was 95 00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:25.290 coming out of a sequencer. At what point does that becomes so common other 96 00:06:25.329 --> 00:06:30.610 people start recognizing it? I think in the mid late s this becomes a 97 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:36.439 phenomenon of the STR company start ups running with sands str like SCR x Machina. 98 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.160 But the seller is still needed because they're doing the discovery and the creativity, 99 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.240 the empathy and the pain and the scoping. Is there's two things. 100 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.029 It's either, like sellers, are the more strategic closer operating lower in the 101 00:06:48.029 --> 00:06:53.470 funnel, or, like sellers, are more like sales engineers, where they're 102 00:06:53.509 --> 00:06:57.829 more technical, they're coding and sequel they're they're like the self driving you wer. 103 00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:00.980 They're sitting and making sure the machines aren't running amuck. And so I 104 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:06.459 think the role of humanity and one to one communication and storytelling and the real 105 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.620 you know, buy on emotion and close on the logic. I think the 106 00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:14.779 emotional area, that creativity, the art, much like Kai Foo Lee, 107 00:07:15.259 --> 00:07:18.649 the AI prognosticator says, and China, like humans, are not going away, 108 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:20.810 they're just going to be an a different place in the value chain. 109 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:24.889 And then there's this minority report reality toward two thousand and fifty, where you 110 00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:28.689 just select the human option for nostalgia. It's like a record player. Or 111 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:32.759 look at that wax record, like a LP I. It's we're gonna Find 112 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:39.199 Sam and Jusmin how Queen looks like Jazz. It's like big Fan, but 113 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.560 I mean people. That's not the book I wrote because it's funny and it's 114 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.790 scary. This book is not about Ai taking your job. It's about you 115 00:07:47.069 --> 00:07:53.509 mastering the current tech and having a metaphramework for learning U Xuis and any platform 116 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:56.470 that's released. You're going to be the fastest to get it and leverage it. 117 00:07:56.870 --> 00:07:59.939 Let me tell you, when you have a competitor and a commonetize SASS 118 00:07:59.980 --> 00:08:03.339 product, if you know how to use these sales tech platforms and they don't, 119 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:05.939 you're going to lap the sellers at your competitor. You're going to build 120 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.139 a sales machine and engine and they're going to be hunting and pet pecking and 121 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:11.100 you're going to have a howitzer and to go back for a second use of 122 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:13.810 this is like about a decade ago when you started your work on this right. 123 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:18.250 Yeah, I would say that like working on platforms like serious insight, 124 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:24.769 towed APP and yes, where an early derivations of let's program emails or just 125 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.800 doing male merges in Gmail. You know, I then I was managing a 126 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.799 sales team from a corn field and a third first game and said we're going 127 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.279 to map all your second and third to be connections, like all of them, 128 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.799 and email of them, personalize and just on lock meetings. And they 129 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.870 started generating twelve meetings a day and then and then I got like a hundred, 130 00:08:41.909 --> 00:08:45.350 fifty dealt one, seven bigger deal at one. Suddenly the can to 131 00:08:45.389 --> 00:08:48.350 me said we're done. It's like we're four months in. You know, 132 00:08:48.669 --> 00:08:50.629 there's a pretty decent amount of money. I paid them nothing. Nothing. 133 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:54.029 You're a full time equivalent high US yards. As what what happened, and 134 00:08:54.110 --> 00:09:00.059 they said we contected everyone. And the problem is we were going up to 135 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:03.460 fort when thousand retail and there's a total addressabul market was small and the problems 136 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.940 technology is if you overdo it, you just you spam the Tim you blow 137 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.129 the Tam like basically the problem with all the automation it's just there's only two 138 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:15.570 hundred cmos you possibly could sell to and you send them all eight to fifteen 139 00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:18.889 emails and they all make a decision. You're kind of done because then they're 140 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.330 just they've already said remove, you've already cut three percent. And so when 141 00:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.279 I do Automichian now I have a tiered approach. I have like, okay, 142 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:28.879 here's the first here where we're going to have some manual intervention where you're 143 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.879 going to slow down as pyramiddle to if these are c level prospects, like 144 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.679 a Cmo, like you send a email, the CMO verising, like boom, 145 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.149 you get like an auto respond to remove. So like the precious deciders, 146 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:46.070 less frequent, and then closer down in the operational user level you can 147 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.470 go more often. So I actually like have a pyramid of hierarchy on how 148 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:54.700 to do the sequencing, when to over personalize in you know, there's just 149 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.659 there's a lot of theory on this that thinks effective. I'm curious about how 150 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:03.820 you feel about this because you said that down the funnel, when you're doing 151 00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.570 a lot of storytelling and using human emotion, that's where the cellar really comes 152 00:10:07.610 --> 00:10:11.009 in with their the real value. Do you see that having any value at 153 00:10:11.009 --> 00:10:16.730 the top of the funnel? You know, really brilliant and beautiful automation and 154 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:20.129 is emotional and it is visual, and I talked about this on another meeting. 155 00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:24.159 I kind of want this to be my calling card of an unorthodox approach. 156 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.919 I've really been interested in persuasion and the work of Dr Robert Shield Uni 157 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.159 and influence and also neuroscience and there's a lot of books. David Hoftfield, 158 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:39.309 the science of selling, gets really into neurological studies. Basically, as you're 159 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:43.149 reading text, these little marching ants your brain is trying to turn into concepts. 160 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:45.909 If you just, if I just give you a picture, it's worth 161 00:10:45.990 --> 00:10:50.500 sixtyzero words. So email is all about templates, an automation of templates and 162 00:10:50.539 --> 00:10:54.580 personalization, but it's failing because it's words. What I did is I flipped 163 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:58.299 to visual prospecting and Ben Diagram based prospecting. So I do have end and 164 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.700 this thing is worth like a hundred thousand words. Send it one email from 165 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:07.450 a gmail boom. Chief Digital Officer McDonald's set it appointment on the first send. 166 00:11:07.450 --> 00:11:13.090 Broke the sound barrier on what is possible without reach, by flipping how 167 00:11:13.210 --> 00:11:16.529 the brain works. So I start working with what is a cloud APP, 168 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:20.720 I think it's called. It's basically gives you explainer, Jeffs. You like 169 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.360 take a piece of your software, the wow moment, your demo or actually 170 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.960 the product you just you like a seven second custom jeff start dropping the gifts 171 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:33.830 into your email threads and then you're unlocking the NEO CORTEX and the visual part 172 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:35.789 of the brain that's emotional and creative. So yes, yes, yes, 173 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:39.990 you have to get pain, fear, emotion, creativity. You have to 174 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:45.870 peek interest and desire by using visuals and email. The taking this to phone, 175 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:50.500 the Unorthodox piece is to phone is all about phone templates and objective ejectionally 176 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:54.860 handling and scripts and rebuttals. But eighty percent of that, even ninety, 177 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:58.100 is like the tone. So phone should be tone, temperts and scripts and 178 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.090 email should be visual and not writing. And so if you just if you 179 00:12:01.210 --> 00:12:05.090 just grasp that, it kind of like explodes the whole paradigm, you know. 180 00:12:05.210 --> 00:12:09.370 And then another really big realization is when people operate on linked in, 181 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:13.690 they're just kind of like, okay, Patrick, here's my pitch and then 182 00:12:13.769 --> 00:12:16.759 one more like checking in. Wait, what, it's email, five to 183 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:22.600 twelve touches. You need to conduct manual sequencing over linked in, as if 184 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.960 it's a sequencer, just because you don't have an API and you can't schedule 185 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.509 it. It's the same problem. Someone jument you just connected. Okay, 186 00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:35.509 warm them up route. Who's the best person? Slow down and able educate, 187 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:37.990 walk up a ladder and been asked for the meeting. Not just connect 188 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:41.990 and pitch, not just one and done. You've gotta you got to invest 189 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:48.100 in that channel repetitively adding value along that value cheat. This something I've been 190 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.940 thinking about because, as somebody who gets a lot of linked in messages, 191 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:56.179 it's very rare that I even read them, even more than email. I 192 00:12:56.299 --> 00:12:58.450 know you can archive an email really easily, but I almost get mad at 193 00:12:58.529 --> 00:13:01.409 linkedin messages for and I foundself getting mad, Mick, why am I getting 194 00:13:01.409 --> 00:13:05.730 mad at this? And I started thinking about it and I see Linkedin as 195 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.690 almost a like. It is a social network, right, and I don't 196 00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:11.769 see email as a social tool. So when people trying to pitch me on 197 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.159 Linkedin, it feels kind of weird and uncomfortable. Right. So how do 198 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.240 you get past that with people and actually have productive sales conversations there. To 199 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.080 be honest with you, right now is and regional vice president of you APP 200 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.990 and I saw I run a region and I kind of cover the whole world 201 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.389 now with the crisis and then also just being a sales futurist and my spare 202 00:13:31.429 --> 00:13:33.750 time, for the love of all this, helping everyone get better through the 203 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:37.509 book and everything which stop published by Harper Collins and we'll be coming out. 204 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.029 So pee me on Linkedin. I'll give you a puppy. I'm driving the 205 00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:43.299 majority of my business at a linkedin. Now everybody's like sheltered in place in 206 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:48.019 their on the Linkedin. So engagement's crazy. And Jeremy Donovan, it sells 207 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:52.740 off with the six million emails and within the heights of this pandemic, reply 208 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:56.690 rates were down thirty six percent. Phone is still really strong channel, but 209 00:13:56.730 --> 00:13:58.049 I'll get people on the phone and be like Hey, way to buy my 210 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.769 number, nice list. So I'm doing in Linkedin is. I understand that 211 00:14:01.809 --> 00:14:05.250 you feel that way, and I start a conversation around the economic graph or 212 00:14:05.289 --> 00:14:09.809 interrasgraph, like maybe about this type of stuff, like what do you think 213 00:14:09.850 --> 00:14:13.840 about the modern sales stack or what do you think about mobile retargeting, or 214 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.919 you know what industries are seeing are most effective, and it's like a lateral 215 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.600 conversation which just gets some the ability to start talking with me. We start 216 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.080 talking for a while, I start talking about what I'm doing. They find 217 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.909 us, say what are you doing day reach for me, and then we 218 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:28.950 move it to email, and so I'm threading out off of the interest graph 219 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.870 and economic graph. And when I say economic graph, is just like I 220 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:35.710 sell these user acquisition experts who manage these massive multitens and million budgets to fuel 221 00:14:35.789 --> 00:14:39.100 these mobile advertising and we're all sitting at home. A lot of these APPs 222 00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:43.580 are actually doing well and some more between jobs. So a lot of times 223 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.779 what I'm doing is match making and helping him find a new home, because 224 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:50.179 I know that once they find that new growth role, they're going to come 225 00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:52.769 to me for ways of my techn help. So I would just think about 226 00:14:54.529 --> 00:14:58.529 like think about linkedin as if it were email and sophisticated in the touches. 227 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:03.649 Manually take that approach and then, you know, make that the feeder or 228 00:15:03.730 --> 00:15:07.639 the gateway drug to having a real commercial conversation. But you have to do 229 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.600 it slower because it's a drone. It's just like connected pitch, connect to 230 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:13.679 pitch, the next pitch and everybody's just boxing up. So also, powdered 231 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.279 interrupt is a big part of my book. Like how can you approach someone 232 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.590 in a different way? Send A hilarious gift, like just like hope you're 233 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:24.389 doing well, reaching out. This is if you do your basic thing. 234 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:26.710 It's just like meeting a stranger in the street of me like hey, how 235 00:15:26.750 --> 00:15:28.549 you doing? Find how you do it, and it didn't mean anything. 236 00:15:28.950 --> 00:15:31.950 It's gone. It's good. You'll never think of that person again in your 237 00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:35.299 life. That's often I happened. So it sounds like what you're doing is 238 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:41.139 you're trying to provoke them to make the ask by providing relevant information or insight 239 00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:45.580 rivene conversation. For the first when I provoke a human being to have a 240 00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:48.779 great conversation. Sure, and if there's no commercial interest in me, that's 241 00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:52.649 even better, because that's like an altruistic modems like you look really interesting and 242 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:54.370 someone I'd like to do business with. The first that's just have an interesting 243 00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:58.370 conversation about this niche that we've both been in. Wow, you've been a 244 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.970 mobile technology for twelve years. Same with me, thirteen. Like what what 245 00:16:03.129 --> 00:16:04.879 trends are you seeing? What are the challenges? Like? Is this situation 246 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.919 affecting you? Is and that's the thing about all this empathies selling is it's 247 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.000 not just you know clearly you're going through a rough time, we all are, 248 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.320 and then just blanketing everyone with the covid nineteen message. It's more empathy 249 00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:21.950 is carrying about their business and take some time to personalize and they're just such 250 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:26.070 me raging debates like get, connect and sell and make thousands of dials and 251 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:30.190 you'll just get the people, that's true, or personalize so much that they're 252 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.539 just so blown away and you'll get a meeting, and that's also true. 253 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:38.419 But almost like the kind of lifestyle of Selfcare, of moderation, there's spectrums 254 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:44.379 and extremes that exist in sales tools and sales development philosophy, and somewhere in 255 00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:49.250 the middle is typically what I find actually works. When you strip all the 256 00:16:49.289 --> 00:16:52.889 books away and all the talking heads and your your goal is to hit this 257 00:16:52.970 --> 00:16:56.570 amount of meetings and opportunities and drive this much revenue and you've got no choice, 258 00:16:56.610 --> 00:17:00.639 like burn the ships, you try everything. I always find that somewhere 259 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.879 in the middle, like there's a certain amount of calls, you had to 260 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.359 make, certain amount of sequences, you had to do a certain amount of 261 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.599 social selling. And the biggest, biggest thing I can tell people is the 262 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:14.200 minute someone is comfortable with you, midfunnel, lower funnel, text, WHATSAPP, 263 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.190 every audict channel, like as soon as you can get into direct text 264 00:17:18.309 --> 00:17:22.230 and what's up with your prospects, it is the biggest accelerator ever because the 265 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:23.950 open race, ninety eight percent like by text. You're going to get back 266 00:17:23.990 --> 00:17:26.829 to me. It's so bad that when I get on like group text list 267 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.819 and my phone number from like previous owners of that number, I'm just like 268 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:33.980 delete, remove, right, but if I get on spam blast emails, 269 00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:37.059 I just markspam. I don't really care. But like text is like if 270 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.420 you text me before you know me, I'm offended. But if we've been 271 00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:42.980 talking about a deal for a couple weeks and then I'd fall into your tax 272 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:45.690 or phone, you're what's what's up, you're going to be kind of comfortable. 273 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.809 Right. I had a a cro is just doing it all this work 274 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:52.529 over text and blew my mind. And I worked for a couple companies in 275 00:17:52.569 --> 00:17:56.930 Tel Aviv and they're running everything off their WHATSAPP. The Fidelity and speed is 276 00:17:57.009 --> 00:18:00.680 insane. It's like it's flawless and it's in everyone's on the same page in 277 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.920 real time. I worked at a company where we did our first outrach on 278 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.079 like warm and bound through text and it was our highest conversion. And like, 279 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.430 even if they didn't like asked for a demo, is just like they 280 00:18:12.549 --> 00:18:17.630 researched something online related to what we do, we would text them and very 281 00:18:17.670 --> 00:18:21.029 rarely when people get upset, I was actually kind of surprised. That's the 282 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:25.950 thing about all the channels is that if it's wanted and if it's relevant enough, 283 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:29.660 it's I remember I was reading wired magazine in this famous CMO made a 284 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:33.900 quote and I just called her office phone, quoted or quote and said this 285 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:36.619 is what I think you should do. Is a hotel chain and they're going 286 00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:38.059 to use key this entry through mobile. I was like, this is really 287 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:41.730 cool and it would really come up for all like this. You know, 288 00:18:41.809 --> 00:18:45.049 had while factor. I forget the exact global campaign, but it's like if 289 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:48.849 you were sitting at McDonald's, something would ping your phone with an offer for 290 00:18:48.009 --> 00:18:52.130 like a whopper across the street for dollar. It was all Geofense, like 291 00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:55.720 really cool ideas, right, so these wild factor things. She goes ahead 292 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.599 and she responded. It was pretty amazing. She didn't respond to the voicemail, 293 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.880 but I said an email after reft seeing the voicemail, saying that personalise 294 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.920 script, and they got back to me. Let's so I'm a I'm a 295 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.759 fan of personalization and research, but always putting yourself in the prospect shoes. 296 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.750 And that's how, like throughout the whole book, the First Pass of the 297 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:15.990 book, people freaked out, like you're John Connor, this is Skye, 298 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:21.750 like your sales right, like basically you've created a weapon here to teach anyone 299 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:25.859 how to like be super human, like x the output, and it can 300 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:27.380 be used for evil. And that's why I have like a Credo through the 301 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:33.220 book, like responsible selling, kidspan compliancy and GDP are like the platinum rule. 302 00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:37.259 Like not that you wouldn't mind like check this person out, like if 303 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:42.250 they seem like small network on Linkedin, pretty conservative, like they're not going 304 00:19:42.289 --> 00:19:48.049 to want to get fifteen automated messages, right, that's probably not their Jin. 305 00:19:49.490 --> 00:19:56.759 No, not at all. This episode was brought to you by Panda 306 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.160 Doc. Panda like the bear and doc like the document. Panda DOC helps 307 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:07.349 over twelvezero businesses create documents faster, streamline their sales processes and look more professional. 308 00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:11.829 GO TO PANDA DOCCOMLA B tob today and start a completely free trial. 309 00:20:12.190 --> 00:20:18.509 No credit card required. I think that waits in the comma. Prospecting a 310 00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:22.619 bed. I'd never heard of the term. It's something that I've done in 311 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:26.420 the past but didn't even realize I was doing or why, and after reading 312 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:30.900 it was Tony Hughes right then. Yeah, studying on you. Could you 313 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.900 tell me a little bit more about that? So Tony's been a mentor for 314 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:38.569 five years and I came out of music marketing on the sunset Strip ages ago, 315 00:20:40.089 --> 00:20:42.769 like early two S and I had a two hundred thousand person my space. 316 00:20:42.809 --> 00:20:48.490 So I was like really, really down with social networking understanding all the 317 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:49.960 ens announced of it. Actually, when facebook lunch from like that, I'll 318 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.240 never work. I can't customize my banner, you know. So I got 319 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.839 traded sales for us on the Challenger sale and CEB at the time and it 320 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.680 was going through a simulation and then blizzard and I just looked on youtube like 321 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.640 challenge of Challenger. And Tony Hughes came up in Australia and we kind of 322 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.230 did a reverse mentorship where he taught me the whole Pantheon of strategic selling, 323 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:12.990 from Millerheim into spin selling and Neil Rackham and going back into Taz and battle 324 00:21:14.069 --> 00:21:17.869 plan and, you know, solution sales and customer centric and I've read hundreds 325 00:21:17.869 --> 00:21:22.259 of books and work with him. In return. We were just really what's 326 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.779 so cool about Tony is he's a different generation but he's fully embrace the technology. 327 00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:27.619 So it's almost a TQ story. He starts to go nuts and linked 328 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:32.220 in writing these two thousand three thousand word post is publisher at the time did 329 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:33.769 like five hundred of these and he got a brand up. You got three 330 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:38.130 hundred and fifteen thousand followers. So now for like B tob sales on earth 331 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:42.130 there's like Mark Hunter, Jill Conrath and Tony all in that like three hundred 332 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:47.240 and fifty thousand followers range out of seven hundred million profiles. And so he's 333 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.240 been my mentor for five years and so we I was the case study in 334 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:55.160 Combo and now we're co writing TQ. So what is Combo? Basically the 335 00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:00.400 best str reps figured out a staturation principle and it comes mobile phone. Drive 336 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:03.990 to is that if I call you, it buzzes and I don't want to 337 00:22:04.069 --> 00:22:07.670 answer it. I don't recognize a number, probably a robe call. Then 338 00:22:07.109 --> 00:22:10.670 if I leave a voicemail, it buzzes again, and then if I send 339 00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:12.549 an email, buzzes again. And if I set it a tweet or twitter 340 00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:15.900 like it or retweet it, boom and buzzes again. And basically you get 341 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:21.259 this beast form impact where you as the prospect, you're like, who is 342 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:26.500 this aggressive solicitor? Stop, no, removed, elte or Hey, this 343 00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:30.210 reminds me of me. They're very hungry. I want to hire you. 344 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:32.690 Wait, I'm not the right person. Talk to Sallie. So you get 345 00:22:32.769 --> 00:22:36.730 you get a no, remove refer, but there's no vacuum. You come 346 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:40.170 in like the tide and your voicemail is hey, I'm going to contact you 347 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:42.170 by email about this. You know, add some social proof. We help 348 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:47.240 a similar client. Right. What starts to happen is you're no longer trying 349 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:48.640 to call to get the prospect, you're trying to make a call to leave 350 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.920 a voicemail. The purpose of the calls to leave the voicemail. The purpose 351 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:55.400 of the voicemail is send the email. The purpose of all of this is 352 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.910 like like a bill collector. It's only it's a funny analogy. This is 353 00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:03.910 like you know, Patrick, I'm coming for you, like the tide and 354 00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:07.869 the prospects. Literally has to stop you and I've never gotten a street or 355 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.349 in this or any problems like you have to literally say remove. The beauty 356 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.099 of that. I can go to my Ciro and say hey, Patrick said 357 00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:17.819 removed. So like my file is. Here's a top two hundred emium accounts 358 00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:21.660 and I can tell in one quarter where every account is whether they've gone through 359 00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:23.220 a competitor. Don't want to talk now, want to talk in two months 360 00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:27.049 and I have an answer and every other rep has blanks and says I not 361 00:23:27.170 --> 00:23:33.089 much interest because I I'm forcing a response. And the reason I got nicknamed 362 00:23:33.089 --> 00:23:36.529 the machine or the honey badger is I get away with a lot because I 363 00:23:36.650 --> 00:23:40.130 lace this into the nest and empathy. And actually, do you want to 364 00:23:40.170 --> 00:23:41.880 help them? If you sign with me on this product, it will help. 365 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.079 You. Only work for things. I believe in that. I only 366 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.680 considered a sale when it's driven the ry so, like I feel a moral 367 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.039 obligation to interrupt you and get in front of you if I can help you, 368 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.990 because even if you fight with me about having been solicited or sent to 369 00:23:56.029 --> 00:24:00.069 me an emails or whatever, I actually have your best interest in mind. 370 00:24:00.109 --> 00:24:03.910 And so if you have like a heart centered, good motive to actually help 371 00:24:03.950 --> 00:24:06.950 people and you work for a good company and can help them, you know, 372 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:10.859 this is what Bosworth said. There's like seven slots. Every prospect has 373 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:14.019 pain and latent pain and they're sitting there trying to solve a problem, just 374 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:17.339 like you said about text missing here earlier. If I Combo you, you 375 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:21.220 have that problem and it's relevant, you'll talk to me. The value of 376 00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:26.089 fixing the problem is better than the interruption. My annoyance about an interruption or 377 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:30.289 a combo is far less than the fact that dinging mean. Yes, we 378 00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:33.490 just merge, we have two data stores. We've got a consolidate or data 379 00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:36.690 or cum socks. Are you right? How did you figure this out? 380 00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:40.400 Like, help me. I'm glad you mentioned that the heart focus sign, 381 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.079 though, because I had a friend that used to calmself a phone terrorist who 382 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.920 did that and I don't know if he had the perssiters are so, like 383 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.440 you said, you could use some of this for evil. By as long 384 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.759 as you have the best intentions, I feel like it's hard to go wrong 385 00:24:52.869 --> 00:24:56.269 and you're going to get some sort of response. But I'm curious. Are 386 00:24:56.309 --> 00:24:59.990 you always using COMPA of prospecting, or is it something that you use on 387 00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:04.990 certain accounts? You know, I was so intimately involved in defining it and 388 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:08.140 I'm like AK study in the book. But yeah, I always used it 389 00:25:08.619 --> 00:25:14.700 and everything to me is an Omni channel signal. Okay, so everything's blended. 390 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:18.059 I came from Craig Rosenberg and Topo Consulting. Like the age of multichannel 391 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:22.049 prospect is not dead. They call it the total triple or the gentlent triple 392 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:26.970 throughout. What I'm saying is this best sestr just do a fast succession of 393 00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:29.529 touched is. They never just do a single threat or a mono task. 394 00:25:29.609 --> 00:25:33.329 They always blend it. That being said, if you have parallel assisted dialing 395 00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:36.240 like a connecting cell, connect leader or Um, and you have the ability 396 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.279 to make thousands of phone calls and talk to forty prospects today, that's also 397 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.680 very good. You should do both. So let's say you come and look 398 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.240 at my profile and I can sell to you. I will then call you, 399 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.240 voice, Famili you, and email you, maybe Emili you. I'll 400 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.710 use three to four channels. You know, if your middle funnel a lower 401 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:52.990 funnel, I'm still prospecting my funnel. I don't want you to die in 402 00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:56.509 the bind. I don't want it to go steale. So what I'm doing 403 00:25:56.589 --> 00:26:00.150 is I'm looking at a vastery of outreach where they interact with me. But 404 00:26:00.230 --> 00:26:03.589 I'm always adding in the phone as the tent pole to the strategy, because 405 00:26:03.630 --> 00:26:06.539 there's always the off chance that you made a comment in my social media. 406 00:26:06.579 --> 00:26:08.259 I can call you and be like you just comment. Yep, I did, 407 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.140 let's talk about it. So you know, we can also look at 408 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:15.740 high open rates. WHO's open the email sequence six times? They're probably referring 409 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:18.089 it through the organization. Okay, I'm gonna, you know, get their 410 00:26:18.130 --> 00:26:21.769 linkedin profile, look them up on the Iq, get their cell phone, 411 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:25.130 call them on their phone, call the male email. And so I use 412 00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:29.730 the phone to accelerate the Omni channel stacking and the five to twelve touches and 413 00:26:29.769 --> 00:26:32.849 all these studies. I get them done and for seventy two hours. So 414 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.960 like the speed and velocity at which I'm able to set meetings and move deals 415 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.400 forward is just like it's just unheard of, because all I'm doing is maximizing 416 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.839 the averages and moving so much quicker through that prefunnel than anyone else really. 417 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:51.390 I mean no one's really ever in the world said do the sequencer nudging and 418 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:53.589 calling around the sequences. I've never seen that. I've my work is the 419 00:26:53.710 --> 00:26:56.509 only one I've seen. Is because it's really brazen. It's like we are 420 00:26:56.509 --> 00:27:02.539 already like sending him fifteen emails. Why are you calling on that? Because 421 00:27:02.619 --> 00:27:07.980 if you start to see signs of life within that process, stop the presses 422 00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:11.539 column. You just open my email seven times, like, what's going on? 423 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.900 Are you offended? You love it? Are you referring me? Like, 424 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.130 let me take you out of my sequencer because you're doing something over there. 425 00:27:18.849 --> 00:27:22.930 I was doing pixel tracking a lot with yes where there's a big, 426 00:27:23.089 --> 00:27:27.250 big corporation. They open my email seven times and eleven or is bobbing all 427 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:32.759 day. I finally I either call or email and he said Nice Day, 428 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:34.000 the driven response, and when I got on my phone I said Yeah, 429 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.519 quite frankly, out an email tracker. I was firing a pixel and I 430 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.000 saw you just kept it opening. It is like that's awesome, I love 431 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.240 that innovation at your company's innovative. This is kind of thing we need here. 432 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.349 Let's do the deal. He'd gone to the Bund where he's the best 433 00:27:45.390 --> 00:27:51.269 part. Like this was like three four months. This is just me seeing 434 00:27:51.390 --> 00:27:53.509 the Pixel and that was a beauty. Of Groom is just sits in your 435 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:57.619 Gmail and it just pops up like this stock tracker of everybody opening every email 436 00:27:57.619 --> 00:28:00.819 you ever said. Imagine every Gmail you ever said to prospects and every day 437 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:04.140 seeing the opens. If I get four opens, boom, triple. And 438 00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.619 so I taught scrs to do this. One of the STR is, one 439 00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:11.740 of the big sales engagement companies, was on a performance review. He's using 440 00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:17.130 sales life technology. I teach them to triple over the top of sequencers within 441 00:28:17.529 --> 00:28:19.890 forty five days, because the number one SCR in the company got flow in 442 00:28:19.930 --> 00:28:25.569 Vegas like one the ladder everything using triple techniques. He's on my linked in 443 00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:29.200 profile. So the stuff works well. What is the definition of tripling? 444 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.759 So triple is just any blended touch. The usually phone is a tempole, 445 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.400 but it's like, you know, call voicemail, email in mail like. 446 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.549 You call it quater quick. You're just saying how many disparate channels are you 447 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:45.470 combining? So I'm in a like, you know, star a tweet or 448 00:28:45.630 --> 00:28:52.549 DM on the tweet, Emil email, phone call, voice message, carry 449 00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:55.859 your pigeon contact or mail. I mean it really can be anything. You 450 00:28:55.940 --> 00:28:59.779 can literally put some Doso together and for your top fifty prospects you can leave 451 00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.259 them all the voicemail and send them all a coffee card and look the at 452 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:04.579 analytics. I've never tried twitter. You mentioned twitter a couple times. What 453 00:29:04.660 --> 00:29:10.130 your exparents Fan with that? So really twitter has been a hacking mechanism for 454 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:12.849 me. I always talk about growth hacking because there are speed limits down Linkedin, 455 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:15.609 and that's great right, because with a basic profile you can't do much, 456 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:19.769 and so getting sales navigator gives you unlimited searching and you can reach out 457 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:23.519 to fifty people by email. The problem is if I go on to linkedin 458 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.160 right now and add hundreds of people to my network who are on my last 459 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.480 boom, my account shut off. So what I do is I creep brilliant 460 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:34.400 content and I use hashtags for my updates and controversial posts. And these are 461 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.750 what I would call the controversy of debate within reason. We're not touching like 462 00:29:38.990 --> 00:29:42.029 third rails, like politics or like you just do. What we're talking about 463 00:29:42.190 --> 00:29:47.869 is points of deep discussion around topics that are relevant. Right. A big 464 00:29:47.869 --> 00:29:49.950 one is like phone versus social selling. Which one should it be? Right? 465 00:29:49.950 --> 00:29:55.140 So I'll post that hit the big hashtags like startups. Social selling maybe 466 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:59.779 has fiftyzero followers. Maybe something like technology has a million followers. I'll push 467 00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:03.740 that my updates and linked into twitter and then that those hashtags will line up 468 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.140 with the hashtags and twitter. If it goes viral and twitter and it's not 469 00:30:07.289 --> 00:30:10.849 hits, then for my web address, I don't have my company. I 470 00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:15.730 just have the vanity url for linkedincom in, slast Michael, Justin. All 471 00:30:15.809 --> 00:30:18.490 my twitter traffic is pointed back on my linkedin page, like who is this 472 00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:22.359 guy? So I start to get followed. Then it change my button and 473 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.119 Linkedin from connect to follow, and so I'm just gaining followers because I'm about 474 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:27.960 to hit the thirtyzero cap. What I'm trying to do is drive a fly 475 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.599 wheel where linkedin is the hub, twitter's the spoke and everybody likes me and 476 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.750 twitter comes back on Linkedin and you'll notice something really profound. I don't have 477 00:30:34.829 --> 00:30:38.150 a blog, I don't have a website, like I have like affiliated Septi 478 00:30:38.230 --> 00:30:41.069 certification. I'm a company, but like that stuff. So all dead. 479 00:30:41.109 --> 00:30:45.390 There's no interaction. You have seven hundred million bb people sitting in this network, 480 00:30:45.789 --> 00:30:49.940 all traceable comments, likes, interactions. Every time I'm something threads out. 481 00:30:51.259 --> 00:30:52.819 You know, another thousand people see it. So idea, a post 482 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:57.420 to get fiftyzero views hit twitter, I get like thousands more people falling it 483 00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:03.859 and then suddenly proposed. I'm driving like anywhere from you know, half dozen 484 00:31:03.940 --> 00:31:07.410 do a dozen linkedin invites inbound. Then there's no throttle there. I can 485 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:11.609 I can drive as many as I want. I'm curious what the the twet 486 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:14.369 there? Is that your personal twitter? Is it a separate twitter for business? 487 00:31:14.650 --> 00:31:17.210 Any twitter? I just have a personal one. Add to a person. 488 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:19.039 You can add me on there. That's meinly the niche of what I've 489 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.000 sold in about these methods. I think it's really weird about me is like 490 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.839 I've never come out as a talking head. I didn't want to be the 491 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.720 case study in Combo. I didn't want to do like sales futuresm or talk 492 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.150 about this stuff, but it was just like a now is the time type 493 00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:38.069 moment. I was talking with Steve Richard about this in the first quarter of 494 00:31:38.950 --> 00:31:41.990 the New Year. Everything was on the Uppenden like. I just did a 495 00:31:42.029 --> 00:31:45.190 post about this, right, and so I was trying to figure out what 496 00:31:45.430 --> 00:31:49.900 would be the next book after predictable revenue and predictable prospecting. If the atom 497 00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.339 prospecting like, what is it called? And that's where I figured out that 498 00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:57.220 there's just way too much sales tooling coming way too fast. You look at 499 00:31:57.220 --> 00:32:01.730 Dave Delaney's V five of the sales maps like a LUMAS games like five hundred 500 00:32:01.809 --> 00:32:04.970 sales vendors. I don't know, it could be thousands. If you think 501 00:32:05.009 --> 00:32:08.490 of sales force and dream force. What are we going to do to master 502 00:32:08.650 --> 00:32:13.250 that tech if within a year it's all new tech? So it said released 503 00:32:13.289 --> 00:32:15.119 TQ in in two thousand and twenty five, someone reads it, or in 504 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.319 two thousand and thirty some reason. Well, if it's just about up, 505 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.960 you know figure out sales off and outreach. Will those could be acquired by 506 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:25.200 then. That tech could be totally different. Right. The Meta skill that 507 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:30.150 holds for the last twenty years and since the Internet revolution is you want to 508 00:32:30.309 --> 00:32:36.509 enable yourself to understand technology and use it better. And so technology quotient is 509 00:32:36.549 --> 00:32:40.029 your ability to fuse like human and machine, with the U on the UX 510 00:32:40.150 --> 00:32:45.059 and leverage of the technology for efficiency and like superhuman impact. So you can 511 00:32:45.099 --> 00:32:49.500 see the outreach hats. Now take your sales team of ten and make the 512 00:32:49.579 --> 00:32:52.339 most powerful as a hundred. This, like Strae, is to find a 513 00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:57.619 pretty predictable revenue, like the Henry Ford supply chain. That was the two 514 00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:00.769 thousand and eleven moment in two thousand and twenty. One TIQ, or technology 515 00:33:00.809 --> 00:33:05.130 quotation, is the Jarvis iron man suit. It's uh, we're in SR 516 00:33:05.250 --> 00:33:07.930 A and field, like we've got tech. What do we do with it? 517 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:10.049 And there's two types of companies. Is Hyperlyn, like no budget, 518 00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:14.799 and so you got to be mcguimer. You've got to get make do with 519 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.240 like an umbrella in a hairpin and you know, save the day. Or 520 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.039 you're in a fast higher of company, even a limited budget. It's like 521 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:23.599 we want to crush this. What do we do? And how do we 522 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:28.269 get all fit together and talk together and how do we like the the REV 523 00:33:28.349 --> 00:33:31.589 OPS or ops. You know, the OPS world is is in a revolution 524 00:33:31.630 --> 00:33:35.950 right now because their systems are really hard to integrate and get all those stacks 525 00:33:35.990 --> 00:33:37.589 to work, and so I'm also really like, I mean the VP of 526 00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:42.299 ops for outbown works, being very involved in sales operations, for getting the 527 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.819 analyps and reportings out of the products that I've used and the teams I've run. 528 00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:49.859 That is an emerging industry, a niche within a niche or sales. 529 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:53.019 It's very important. You seem so into this. Stress like you seem hype 530 00:33:53.059 --> 00:33:57.529 is hell. Sometimes you have a child that just found its new favorite toy. 531 00:33:57.690 --> 00:34:00.369 Why are you so excited about this and why is it the thing that 532 00:34:00.490 --> 00:34:04.730 he's like dedicated your life too? Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean 533 00:34:04.970 --> 00:34:09.880 I think it was people in very senior positions, from Sandhill road to CEO, 534 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.519 as I've worked with. I have worked for too many companies. I've 535 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:19.599 had like twenty rolls in the last twenty years, and there's a expression of 536 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.199 like Jack of all trades and master of none. But it's sort of like 537 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.070 understanding who you are as in the animal in the jungle, like I'm a 538 00:34:25.070 --> 00:34:30.349 Cheetah, like I sprint really hard. What it is is I am obsessed 539 00:34:30.389 --> 00:34:34.389 with cracking top funnel, with figuring out how to take an unknown product or 540 00:34:34.469 --> 00:34:37.980 service that has solves pain and has MVP as like it's a real product and 541 00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:44.500 service, and then cracking the problem. Opening is the new closing. So 542 00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:46.780 it's just like, I think, this gift that's sitting there that I understand 543 00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:51.099 innately in my DNA. There's like I have an obsession to hunt, but 544 00:34:51.500 --> 00:34:54.570 then figure out how to automate the hunting. Yeah, I mean I think 545 00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:57.610 it's just is a great strength. I can help a lot of people. 546 00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:00.769 I get a lot of value out of seeing people win. They read my 547 00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:04.369 book, they come to me and they're more successful their jobs. I give 548 00:35:04.449 --> 00:35:07.760 them back time in their day and I help them. That's probably the most 549 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.719 fulfilling part of doing it and why I like it, because I came out 550 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.159 of nonprofits and mission driven orgs. It's just kind of cool to like give 551 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.719 back in some way and see and see the results happen. So yeah, 552 00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:21.909 I'm really curious, like what you'll get out of Combo prospering Artq is like 553 00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.670 immediately after you read it or after months of trying, and like how does 554 00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:28.469 it impact you? You know, yeah, I mean I think it's a 555 00:35:28.510 --> 00:35:32.110 big deal because there's this whole idea that you don't want to oversaturate somebody and 556 00:35:32.150 --> 00:35:36.139 you don't want to bother them. I know whenever I'm doing outreach, I'm 557 00:35:36.179 --> 00:35:38.860 like how many touches am I doing, and oftentimes they're very well touch over 558 00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:42.860 a long period of time, but I know that when I've gotten that kind 559 00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:45.579 of outrage, I'm just deleting them for like months, like you said, 560 00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:49.219 not even doing anything about I don't even how to subscribe. I don't care 561 00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:52.849 enough to even go and subscribe or just keep archiving it. So just swarming, 562 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:55.530 like you said. Yeah, so I'm not trying to call you out, 563 00:35:55.610 --> 00:36:00.369 but I'm saying that the initial platforms were hub, spot and Marquetto and 564 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:02.650 part odd, which is part of sales force, was like this is basically 565 00:36:02.650 --> 00:36:07.280 we have opten. You've opted into our mailing list, you've submitted our form 566 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:09.880 and you've opted in receiving communication and now you're on a drip marketing list. 567 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:14.440 The problem is, once the automation came out for be to be outbound, 568 00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:16.400 as people said, let me be careful. They won three, seven, 569 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:21.269 fifteen nineteen. That's more like a newsletter. Oh, you just stand me 570 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:22.789 on a newsletter. What I try to say is it's not a newsletter. 571 00:36:22.869 --> 00:36:27.670 I'm a person. It's going to contact you every few days myself manually. 572 00:36:27.710 --> 00:36:30.789 Now I'm going to automate the manual outreach. have an opt out. Can't 573 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:35.219 span pipliant GP are by to sign privacy. I got this from ethical source. 574 00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:37.059 Threat I don't use personal emails. I don't. There's a whole creed 575 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.059 of how to do it legally and ethically. We've got that. But you 576 00:36:40.179 --> 00:36:45.219 want to indicate the process like that, you're prospecting them. That's the biggest 577 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.170 thing, I think, is being transparent and not like sneaky, like, 578 00:36:47.289 --> 00:36:51.489 Oh, I'm kind of like in your inbox and you don't know. It's 579 00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:55.010 like just be assertive and honest. They like I am this is my job, 580 00:36:55.050 --> 00:36:58.570 I'm an engine of the economy, I'm a seller and I'm trying to 581 00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:01.360 sell to you. As in they're kind of like okay, cool, I 582 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.360 get that, not interested. You know, maybe a few months. It's 583 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.079 so funny if you just give them it's like it's okay to get an answer. 584 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:12.320 That's the weirdest things. So many people that have the call avoidance and 585 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.750 they don't want to be rejected. For me, I just love to know. 586 00:37:15.510 --> 00:37:19.550 You know, and it's so yeah, so my advice to you would 587 00:37:19.550 --> 00:37:23.269 be eight test try and more assertive flow, more frequency. You're going to 588 00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:25.789 rejected a lot more, but you're going to get a lot more yeses and 589 00:37:25.829 --> 00:37:30.219 referrals because people are going to see that you're there and they're going to respond. 590 00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:34.420 That's that's interesting. And it always multi channel right, because right now 591 00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:37.099 what I've been doing is trying, one at a time just to get a 592 00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:39.780 feel for what that's like, and I've been doing the just personalized emails and 593 00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:44.889 it's been kind of amazing the response I've gotten so far. But then when 594 00:37:44.889 --> 00:37:49.289 I think about having to make phone calls and voice mails and and Linkedin on 595 00:37:49.369 --> 00:37:51.530 top of that in my half, I'm probably going to run at energy and 596 00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:53.650 I think that's why people don't personalise as much. So, when you're doing 597 00:37:53.730 --> 00:37:58.489 multi channel and you're saying you're automating so much of it, how do you 598 00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:01.159 set up your cadence is in such a way that it can still feel personalized, 599 00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.880 because I feel like when I try to do that, it's like hey, 600 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.639 you're this role at this company and you do this and it feels so 601 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:12.119 obvious. So how are you setting that was up to feel human. I 602 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.429 think if you can add the visual elements and like use a business intelligence system 603 00:38:15.510 --> 00:38:20.110 or intend data or technographics like I see that you use, you know, 604 00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:22.590 sales force and Marquetto those are obvious ones, but you could find interesting piece 605 00:38:22.670 --> 00:38:27.980 of their technology stack if you can look at the reviews on gt crowd or 606 00:38:28.019 --> 00:38:30.780 various review sites or you have some type of insight that's data driven that you 607 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:36.219 can then screenshot, snapshot, you can look at their website for a pain 608 00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:37.900 or problem it's broken, or you can look at something about them and then 609 00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:42.570 screenshot it include in the email to show you researched it. You're going to 610 00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:45.010 be ahead of the next styles and people. There's like like level one personal 611 00:38:45.050 --> 00:38:49.730 Saton high first name, you know, connection in comments kind of been overdone. 612 00:38:50.010 --> 00:38:52.289 Maybe where they work, employe growth. There's always sort of like vanilla 613 00:38:52.929 --> 00:38:57.039 base personalization. Take the time, I would say, to go to tier 614 00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:01.519 two, a little bit closer personalization is like my recommendation for you. secondarily, 615 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:05.760 rather than getting daunted by like I got to add phone and linked in 616 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.039 touches on every one of these, I would least to a custom connection requests 617 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:12.190 on Linkedin to go with your email to stay digital. And then if you're 618 00:39:12.190 --> 00:39:15.550 getting high opens or they are expressing interest and they're now in your funneling, 619 00:39:15.590 --> 00:39:20.469 your pipeline, that's where I would then add in phone, text, whatsapp, 620 00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:23.030 and so you could run a fully digital, full top funnel, and 621 00:39:23.070 --> 00:39:25.980 then you're like middle and lower funnel. is where you start getting into the 622 00:39:27.019 --> 00:39:30.300 COMBOS. That's the beauty of this stuff and in my book I even talked 623 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:35.059 about sequencing to prevent churn and like CSM and clients, is using automation and 624 00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:39.610 platforms like turn zero or groove to kind of eat in oudomy the touch points 625 00:39:39.650 --> 00:39:44.650 around and renewal, which is like a a super big problem. So my 626 00:39:44.969 --> 00:39:51.449 methods within Combo and Tq and with Tony, it really designed with twenty principles. 627 00:39:51.769 --> 00:39:54.119 If you if you do it and you block out the time of only 628 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:59.280 doing calling for like one hour a day or like for a full quote carrying 629 00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.719 St r two hours a day, you can knock it out. So actually, 630 00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:06.840 some of the books about Mona tasking and yeah, but if I'm in 631 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:08.550 your position and I'm like super busy I think that's what I would do. 632 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:13.550 I just like pick when to blend no harden pass rule, like just to 633 00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:16.150 find like the not the natural order of Paradise. Like. Well, I'm 634 00:40:16.150 --> 00:40:21.190 getting success with personalized emails. How can I just take some personalization up one 635 00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:23.380 level? Maybe I want to use a explainer gift or snapshot something up their 636 00:40:23.420 --> 00:40:29.579 site. Right. You can download a bunch of images to a CSB and 637 00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:34.300 then import them into outreach her, contact her company and you can customer. 638 00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:37.329 There's there's ways to do this by Callin and Josh Braun did a video on 639 00:40:37.409 --> 00:40:39.210 that which is worth checking out. That's cool. I do need to check 640 00:40:39.250 --> 00:40:45.329 that out, but I think we're coming up on time. So what's let's 641 00:40:45.369 --> 00:40:49.329 wrap this up. Is there anything you want to plug before we go to 642 00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:52.800 just go. Please read my book and use good all I ask is that 643 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:57.719 if you like it, you buy it as an Ebook Raudable in summer and 644 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.199 pick it up hard copy next year. I am releasing the Masters and e 645 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.480 book now. It's a hidden document. I'll share it with you if you 646 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:06.110 add me on twitter, linkedin. You paying me D me, I will 647 00:41:06.190 --> 00:41:08.750 share it with you. You and I would love you to push me. 648 00:41:08.829 --> 00:41:13.869 Further share ideas and things in there that you've never seen it. Ideation is 649 00:41:13.949 --> 00:41:16.550 more important than the way it's written. It's just this is going to spark 650 00:41:16.630 --> 00:41:20.019 you to try so many new things, just like I've encouraged you on this 651 00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:23.059 called Patrick. So, yeah, really appreciate your time. Yeah, I'm 652 00:41:23.059 --> 00:41:27.300 actually really hype to go back and finish the book now. It's given me 653 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:30.820 that extra of s Ma. I guess sit down to rate again after working 654 00:41:30.900 --> 00:41:34.409 all day, but I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it, but 655 00:41:34.530 --> 00:41:37.409 thank you, guys. This is your cohost, Patrick down. Thanks for 656 00:41:37.409 --> 00:41:40.690 listening to be TOB Stalles show. Please connect with me on Linkedin, posting 657 00:41:40.809 --> 00:41:45.329 more often and maybe I'll be dming you soon, trying out some justice tactics. 658 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:51.800 Yeah, guys, have a good one. They see if a new 659 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.639 math. Cheers. I'm your host, Patrick downs. Thanks again for joining 660 00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:04.230 us on the sale series of Bob Growth. I hate it when podcasts incessantly 661 00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:07.590 ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because 662 00:42:07.630 --> 00:42:10.829 reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's 663 00:42:10.869 --> 00:42:14.429 what we decided to do. If you leave a review, for be to 664 00:42:14.469 --> 00:42:17.780 be growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James 665 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:22.659 at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I'll send you a signed copy of my new book. 666 00:42:22.820 --> 00:42:25.340 Content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 667 00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:29.699 We get a review, you get a free book. We both win. 668 -->