#Sales 13: How to Combat the 4 Kinds of Sales Burnout w/ Erynn Bell

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.589 Welcome to the BB Grocer, the show that never ends. I'm you're always 2 00:00:09.589 --> 00:00:13.109 sleepy. cohost. Patrick downs, sales training manager of the hand a doc. 3 00:00:13.830 --> 00:00:17.629 Today we're going to be talking to Aaron Bell, Enterprise Sales Director at 4 00:00:17.750 --> 00:00:22.379 the greed, about sales burn out. Patrick, I'm super excited to be 5 00:00:22.660 --> 00:00:26.420 here. This is a topic I'm super passionate about. I've been in sales 6 00:00:26.579 --> 00:00:30.899 for, I guess, almost a decade now and have worked for a quite 7 00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:34.740 a few companies. So yeah, just excited to be here. You mentioned 8 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:38.609 a couple times you think this topic is important, something that that stood out 9 00:00:38.649 --> 00:00:43.450 to you. Why are you specifically passionate about this topic? I think I 10 00:00:43.729 --> 00:00:48.729 have always worked for companies where, you know, it was really intense, 11 00:00:48.729 --> 00:00:51.159 right. I've never worked for a company where it was like, I don't 12 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.200 want my manager looking at my calendar because there's a lot of gaps in it, 13 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:58.880 right. It's always been places that, you know, we're challenging, 14 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.399 people worked really hard and I think I also saw a lot of people get 15 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:07.230 burnt out and, you know, just be very emotional from from that experience. 16 00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:11.670 So I guess maybe it I find it important just because of my own 17 00:01:11.829 --> 00:01:17.269 maybe anecdotal experiences and what I've seen in the last decade of my professional life. 18 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:19.939 Yeah, I think it's becoming more and more common for people to talk 19 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.900 about and before we get to do down the rabbit hole, I'd like to 20 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.579 take a step back and sort of here what your definition of sales burn is, 21 00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:32.659 because someone listening might have a different definition. Yeah, that's a good 22 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:36.689 question. I think stales burn out is a couple different things. Right, 23 00:01:36.890 --> 00:01:42.650 it's somebody coming into a position working really hard and then at a certain point, 24 00:01:42.849 --> 00:01:46.609 you know they've put in a lot of the hours, consistently above and 25 00:01:46.689 --> 00:01:52.079 beyond the expected like forty hours per week, and they, you know, 26 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:55.280 quit or leave to go to a new position because they just can't sustain that 27 00:01:55.400 --> 00:02:00.549 high level of the work. Right. I think it's also somebody performing really 28 00:02:00.549 --> 00:02:05.230 well doing the same type of thing getting fired, right, because they can't 29 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:09.550 again continue to perform at that high level and because of that, maybe they're 30 00:02:10.030 --> 00:02:14.550 their input or their output starts to suffer and then then they are then, 31 00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:19.699 you know, passed over, somebody new comes on board and then, yeah, 32 00:02:20.139 --> 00:02:23.539 they move on or they are forced to move on. Something else that 33 00:02:23.620 --> 00:02:29.340 I've also seen is sort of this competitive nature of sales. I think it 34 00:02:29.419 --> 00:02:32.250 can be really fun and I think it can push people to to perform really 35 00:02:32.289 --> 00:02:36.569 well, but I think there can also be a toxic element to it and 36 00:02:36.729 --> 00:02:38.729 so I think that that can also contribute to sales burn out. Just just 37 00:02:38.889 --> 00:02:43.210 mental health right. I've been at a fair few jobs or people have had 38 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:46.520 literal mental breakdown, so I think that's a part of it as well. 39 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:51.039 Maybe they don't necessarily get fired or move on, but their mental health snuffers 40 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.800 as well. Yeah, and it's interesting that in a lot of fields, 41 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:58.159 not just sales, it's the people that over extend and happen to be top 42 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.349 performers all the time that it happens to the most. Like it's pretty rare 43 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:05.509 that you see the person on the bottom burning out. It's just kind of 44 00:03:05.509 --> 00:03:07.909 a function of business. The more you put in, unfortunately, like your 45 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:10.509 body is going to start to wear and your brain is going to start to 46 00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:15.300 wear. But those are often the people you want to keep right, and 47 00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:19.180 I don't think we're really thinking about that or paying attention to it. The 48 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:23.419 person that staying in the obvious till nine pm every night. It's like hey, 49 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:25.340 maybe stop by and say hey, man, you have a family like 50 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:30.490 you should probably go home and see her family or do something else, and 51 00:03:30.729 --> 00:03:34.009 I appreciate what you do for the company, but let's talk about this. 52 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:37.169 But so often we just let that happen and kind of just walk out the 53 00:03:37.250 --> 00:03:40.129 door, right. Why do you think that is? I think that there 54 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:44.080 is I think you've you and I've talked about this and you said this to 55 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.360 me before. There's like sort of this barrier between personal professional. It's not 56 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:53.120 something that I have necessarily felt just because of the way that I started in 57 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:58.229 my own professional life, but I think there is sort of this stigma about 58 00:03:58.310 --> 00:04:01.150 don't get too personal at work. Right. I think that is changing, 59 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:05.389 but I don't know, maybe some people are putting on a front and saying, 60 00:04:05.430 --> 00:04:09.509 you know, this is this is me and this is what has always 61 00:04:09.509 --> 00:04:12.939 equaled my success. So maybe they're not even open to hearing that type of 62 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:15.500 feedback. There might be a defensiveness that comes up there. But I think 63 00:04:15.500 --> 00:04:19.980 it's really important to look out for your work family because you're with them almost 64 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:24.019 as much, if not more, then you know your own families as well. 65 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:27.449 Yeah, and I love the people at work with but I'm definitely way 66 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:30.529 too close to them. It's one of those things where it's it's kind of 67 00:04:30.569 --> 00:04:31.930 unhealthy, and I think that happens to a lot of people that work a 68 00:04:32.009 --> 00:04:36.209 lot, but they do become your second family and then sometimes become your first 69 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.399 family and that's not healthy either. But it's happening everywhere. I've heard this 70 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.279 from every department that I work with, especially now with covid people are not 71 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.399 blogging off right. I was just talking this more. Somebody's like we need 72 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.800 to enforce some sort of restriction, like there needs to back a time cards 73 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:55.350 to Kia. If you work over ten hours a day, you need to 74 00:04:55.389 --> 00:04:59.670 be logged off. It's really interesting. One of the first jobs I ever 75 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:03.350 had as a social worker working for a domestic violence agency, and you can 76 00:05:03.430 --> 00:05:08.500 imagine there's a lot of like secondary trauma that happens within that type of work 77 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:13.939 because you're, yeah, you're in crisis management, consistently hearing people at a 78 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:17.139 high level in crisis. And something that that company did really, really well 79 00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:21.889 is nonprofit, because they had wellness programs and they paid us to do yoga. 80 00:05:23.089 --> 00:05:26.009 They paid us to I mean, I would be coloring during work, 81 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:29.290 while I was on calls with people, just to kind of be able to 82 00:05:29.329 --> 00:05:32.649 almost compart mentalizer, you know, not have a panic att act during some 83 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:39.319 of those calls, and I really admired them that they were really cognizant and 84 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.800 conscious of the burnout that could happen and it was good for them, it 85 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.959 was good for their people because they were able to retain, you know, 86 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:51.230 their high performer advocates right and and in that type of work, building on 87 00:05:51.350 --> 00:05:57.430 your knowledge and building on your experience working with people who are experiencing crisis is 88 00:05:57.589 --> 00:06:00.350 essential. So they had to, in order to be an effective organization, 89 00:06:00.589 --> 00:06:03.899 really look at it in that way. Something that I'm really proud of that 90 00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:08.740 degreed has done is, you know, there's a lot of companies that say 91 00:06:09.339 --> 00:06:12.139 you need to take care of yourself, take care of your family, but 92 00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:15.540 I don't think I've ever seen a company walk the walk as much as they 93 00:06:15.579 --> 00:06:18.689 talked to the talk as much as degreed has, and that's something that I've 94 00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:24.170 heard consistently across the board, for people who've worked there two months to people 95 00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:28.410 who work there a couple of years or more. They really strive for work 96 00:06:28.490 --> 00:06:30.689 life balance, but at the end of the day you also have to strive 97 00:06:30.769 --> 00:06:33.560 for that in your own personal life as well. So doesn't matter how much 98 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.680 your company's telling you to do stuff. You have to make a commitment towards 99 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:41.279 that in your own life as well to be able to like cut you know, 100 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.560 cut off. What are some things that somebody can do on a personal 101 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:49.110 level to maintain that balance? Something that I saw so I worked with a 102 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:55.470 girl a few years ago who was taught performer, brilliant, super smart when 103 00:06:55.589 --> 00:06:58.629 ended up going into marketing and you know, her career is just kind of 104 00:06:58.670 --> 00:07:01.459 taken off from there. Something that she did that I really admired is she 105 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:06.220 never put her work emails on her phone and she made a commitment to do 106 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:10.899 that because she knew if it was there she would just keep refreshing on the 107 00:07:10.939 --> 00:07:15.540 weekends and she really wasn't able to cut off from that. So that was 108 00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:17.930 one way that she did it. She know, of course, there maybe 109 00:07:18.050 --> 00:07:21.850 times or cycles in your life where you do have to work on the weekends, 110 00:07:21.970 --> 00:07:26.410 but for her weekends were her sacred time, it was her time to 111 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:30.199 unwind and you know, even it was almost like no matter how far ahead 112 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:33.319 she could get from that work on the weekend, she would get behind because 113 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.759 she would get more burnt out right and not be able to perform at a 114 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:41.160 high level during the week. So I think it's just really setting boundaries for 115 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:45.110 yourself in that way. I'm going to have to take that advice as well. 116 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:47.430 I've been having issues, I mean part of the reason that I wanted 117 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:51.310 to talk about this was it's getting bad, you know, like I'm doing 118 00:07:51.509 --> 00:07:56.269 sixteen hour days, nobody's forcing me to, and I'm just doing it because 119 00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:58.350 I feel like I have to. I think a lot of it comes from 120 00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:01.740 a sense of people thinking they need to do it, like no one's even 121 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:05.579 saying it as I'm gonna let these people down, and it's all internal, 122 00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:09.579 though, and that's something that I think a lot of people have taken maybe 123 00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:13.329 if it's since childhood, that they just need to take care of Shit when 124 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:16.050 they don't need to. How do you remind yourself that that's not true all 125 00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:20.490 the time? I'll say I think it's a cultural thing as well. Like 126 00:08:20.610 --> 00:08:24.930 in America we live and you know what some people might say is a bit 127 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:28.199 of a rat race, right, like there's always kind of somebody who can 128 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:33.000 outperform you, right, and there's that sort of sense of fear and something 129 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.840 for me, which was a really great experience, was going overseas and living 130 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:41.070 and working in Australia and New Zealand and I really admired the sense of pride 131 00:08:41.110 --> 00:08:46.149 that people had within their work. It's like I work as a retailers get 132 00:08:46.509 --> 00:08:50.590 at this store and I'm really out of my work and I work forty hours 133 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:54.429 and then I go home and I'm I'm with my family, right. There 134 00:08:54.470 --> 00:08:58.620 wasn't this sense of my personal identity is so tied to what I'm actually doing 135 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.820 day to day. Right. So I think, you know, there's a 136 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:05.620 bit of a cultural aspect to it here in America. Coming back, I 137 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:09.210 think I had a different sense of you know, a sense of self. 138 00:09:09.289 --> 00:09:13.409 Right. I think I don't know. You have to make a commitment to 139 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:20.049 yourself to say I have to undo some of these things that I've been socialized 140 00:09:20.169 --> 00:09:24.039 to believe that my identity is so wrapped up in my accomplishments at work. 141 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.879 Right, you have to find another sense of purpose. It's like that maslow's 142 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:35.120 like hierarchy of needs, right, like that's only a percentage of my identity. 143 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.399 Will my other parts of my identity are that I like to go for 144 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.909 runs or I like to listen to like I might be rambling a little bit, 145 00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:46.269 Patrick, but something that I've sort of committed to because I love podcasts. 146 00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:48.669 It's like I love podcasts and I can say all day I want to 147 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:52.100 listen to sales podcasts, but I also have to say I want to listen 148 00:09:52.100 --> 00:09:56.419 to comedy podcast so in the mornings when I might, you know, might 149 00:09:56.460 --> 00:09:58.899 be using that time to listen to like a sales called a review while I'm 150 00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:03.139 doing my makeup, I like purposefully listen to a Comedians podcast that I know 151 00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:07.100 is going to make me laugh, because then all of a sudden I'm going 152 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:11.409 into that day like with this is sort of like sense of lightness and and 153 00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:13.769 and a little bit of more ease. I think it's just finding out what 154 00:10:15.129 --> 00:10:18.450 those little things are in your own life that will help that, especially now 155 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:24.120 that we can't really see other people that we don't live with on a basis. 156 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.960 Like before work I used to go with a friend to a coffee shop 157 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.120 and like have a thirty minute conversation about philosophy or something, and then after 158 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.440 work I'd go get a drink and I talk to other people that I don't 159 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.070 work with and just meet random people or go to some sort of networking event 160 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.309 and then go home and read a book. But yeah, because those different 161 00:10:43.389 --> 00:10:46.750 buckets were available for me. Right, like you have to put your life 162 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.700 into different buckets and live them separately. I feel like this covid situation is 163 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:54.740 dumped all these buckets into one like bigger bucket that is running out a fucking 164 00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:58.419 room and I'm going to drown myself in the bucket. I think. I'm 165 00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:01.500 trying to figure out and not drown myself in the bucket. It's becoming overwhelming. 166 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:05.009 So, like, I think it's important when we see people we work 167 00:11:05.049 --> 00:11:09.769 with drowning, to do something of that it right. I've had people that 168 00:11:09.850 --> 00:11:15.210 I'm luckily enough to know come to me and notice these things and say hey, 169 00:11:15.289 --> 00:11:16.129 like, are you all right? How can I help here? Some 170 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.120 that I do and stuff like that. So, like, what are some 171 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.320 things that you've done or theoretically want to do to help especially co workers or 172 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.799 friends when you see them going through this? I think, like I said 173 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.029 before, for me it's about just talking and telling my own story, because 174 00:11:33.029 --> 00:11:37.110 I think that that eliminates a certain amount of stigma, right, especially if 175 00:11:37.269 --> 00:11:43.950 you're seeing other people at your company who are high performers saying I've experienced this 176 00:11:45.070 --> 00:11:48.860 before. It's okay, Hey, because for me a lot of times I'll 177 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:54.419 internalize those feelings right like if I am experiencing burnout, all of a sudden 178 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:58.179 that means I'm not smart enough, I'm not good enough. There I am, 179 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:03.289 I'm alien, I'm different than the other people around me. So for 180 00:12:03.409 --> 00:12:05.649 me, I think it's about telling my own story and almost leading by example, 181 00:12:07.169 --> 00:12:09.690 or going to someone and saying, you know, hey, like, 182 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:15.330 for example, I'm sales director here degreed. I was chatting with an SDR 183 00:12:15.490 --> 00:12:18.080 and I said to her, you know, you're such a high performer, 184 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.879 you're doing so well, but you have to know that you have to slow 185 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:24.639 down to speed up. You know what I mean? You have to do 186 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:31.070 and I think if somebody in a position above you or whatever, or you 187 00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:33.389 know, a different position in the R says that to you, I think 188 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:37.309 that all of a sudden the conversation changes and maybe you won't feel as guilty 189 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:39.110 and maybe you won't say okay, well, if I'm feeling this way, 190 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:45.259 doesn't equate to these negative connotations or these negative thoughts about myself. So for 191 00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:48.100 me it's just about being honest with them and saying, Hey, I've been 192 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:52.019 in your shoes before and like this is what's help. Yeah, just relation 193 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:56.139 to people. It's so not great, right. That's something I talk to 194 00:12:56.220 --> 00:13:00.850 a couple people about recently, is fear. I feel like that's the number 195 00:13:00.889 --> 00:13:05.889 one thing that's stops people from doing anything, especially being vulnerable. Like if 196 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:09.649 I try to tell them a story about something I've dealt with and I mis 197 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:15.440 calculated their situation, am I now in the open and vulnerable? I think 198 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.960 a lot of people think that way. And now was calculated for like worst 199 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:24.840 possible situation with emotions especially, and I think it also changes like again, 200 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.070 something it degreed. A couple weeks ago they did something called nates giving where 201 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:31.149 we, you know, essentially company wide we had the week off, and 202 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:37.149 I think it says something and it sets a precedent for your workforce. When 203 00:13:37.269 --> 00:13:41.700 that happens, right, when all of a sudden, the highest level people 204 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:46.580 in your organization, including your CEO, or saying I'm giving you guys permission 205 00:13:48.460 --> 00:13:52.179 to step away. You know, it becomes a different conversation, right, 206 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:54.059 and I think, I think I said to you before we started recording, 207 00:13:54.139 --> 00:13:56.850 like I can be a bit of a paranoid person. Sometimes it doesn't even 208 00:13:56.850 --> 00:14:00.690 matter what's going on around me, like it's all it's a lot of its 209 00:14:00.769 --> 00:14:03.929 tents, the voices inside my head and what those thoughts are saying to me. 210 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:07.490 So for me it's really important to hear those people in leadership, leadership 211 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:13.480 positions lead and say this is okay too. It makes me feel a whole 212 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.120 lot better. Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of companies giving like free Pto 213 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.440 days around holiday and forcing people to take time off, which is really important, 214 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.350 because there's some people that you literally have to force or they won't do 215 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:28.590 it, like they'll go all here without taking time off. That used to 216 00:14:28.629 --> 00:14:33.470 be me. Every holiday I are like vacation I took, I was secretly 217 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.590 checking my emails and I had to literally have people on my company get mad 218 00:14:37.629 --> 00:14:43.139 at me for me to to actually step away, and I will say it 219 00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:48.019 felt so much better. I enjoyed my time so much more when I didn't 220 00:14:48.019 --> 00:14:52.500 have that ords to check my email every single day, because what would I 221 00:14:52.779 --> 00:14:54.889 was I going to be able to do right? Like I was so disconnected 222 00:14:56.129 --> 00:14:58.889 when I was in New Zealand and in the US, like on a completely 223 00:14:58.929 --> 00:15:01.129 different time zone, like I wouldn't have been able to effectively help the people 224 00:15:01.169 --> 00:15:03.889 that were reaching out to me anyway. So it was sort of this like 225 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:09.480 false sense of accomplishment. Really, yeah, wish somebody would have done that 226 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.759 to me sooner. It eventually happened. I'd worked at a large corporation that 227 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.919 we're not being hammed for a long time and I would always work through a 228 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.950 Christmas and it was me and a couple other people. Nobody ever was like 229 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.309 Yo, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, I really wish somebody 230 00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:26.429 to come to me and like you need this is like three years in a 231 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:31.070 row. Now you need to go spend time with your family. But it 232 00:15:31.230 --> 00:15:35.190 was actually praise, like Oh, well, Patrick stayed over Christmas. Is 233 00:15:35.269 --> 00:15:37.580 Like Oh, and that was an encouragement for me to keep doing that and 234 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:39.220 I took that with me. The other jobs and the other people are what 235 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:43.899 are you doing, which it can be so harmful if you do the opposite 236 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:48.100 too. So this is really important and that's a narrative. Right. That 237 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.929 happens again in our culture with this like sense of like busyness, right, 238 00:15:52.090 --> 00:15:56.490 like you know, we all kind of Brag about being busier than others. 239 00:15:56.529 --> 00:16:00.009 I mean it's almost like, as a woman, getting out of that talk 240 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.919 of like I need to lose weight, right, like just being really conscious 241 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.240 of the things that you're saying, in the words that you're using, and 242 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.159 what that impact could have on other people. Right. So I could say 243 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.759 all day long if I were, if I were societally thought of a thin 244 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.669 if I say, Oh, I need to lose weight, what is that? 245 00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:21.149 How does that affect the people around me? Right, same thing. 246 00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:23.590 If I'm like I'm so busy, I have ten meetings and I have this, 247 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:27.389 then I have that, and it's it's just not it's not helpful. 248 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:33.460 In our society. I think we like hide cries for help underneath the BRACK. 249 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:37.259 Like both of those things that you said, if you really listen to 250 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:40.179 what they were saying and be like are you okay? Yeah, do you 251 00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:42.259 need to talk about it? If we were really listening, but I think 252 00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:48.330 so often it's taken at face value, which she's said. Creating safe spaces, 253 00:16:48.490 --> 00:16:52.490 right, like, you know, it's scary to say, especially at 254 00:16:52.529 --> 00:16:56.570 certain certain levels of in your professional life, to say out loud like I'm 255 00:16:56.649 --> 00:17:00.169 feeling this or I'm feeling that because an all of a sudden, you said, 256 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:03.400 you might feel vulnerable. Like find safe ways to do it. So 257 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.119 that you're like starting to practice that vulnerability in a way that maybe doesn't make 258 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.039 you feel so exposed to the rest of the organization. I think finding like 259 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:18.269 almost those little buddies that you can you can talk to are important and I 260 00:17:18.349 --> 00:17:21.109 think this conversation is really eye opening for me. Are and I'm actually going 261 00:17:21.109 --> 00:17:25.109 to take a lot from this and go back and implement myself. Since coming 262 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:29.069 into this, I was almost hoping that you could give me guidance and then 263 00:17:29.109 --> 00:17:32.299 we could just record it and you can also help other people. But I've 264 00:17:32.339 --> 00:17:34.819 gained a lot from it and I really appreciate you coming on. In general, 265 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:38.099 what is the best way for people to connect with you online? Yeah, 266 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:42.779 just go, you know, linkedin. I'm Aaron Bell Ery and Bell. 267 00:17:44.450 --> 00:17:47.690 That's probably the best way. And if you're in rev genius, DM 268 00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:52.009 me on that group as well. Yeah, I love connecting with people. 269 00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:55.250 I love telling each other our own stories because, just like you said, 270 00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:57.599 Pactrick, humarn a lot from that when you do it. So there's learnings 271 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.920 everywhere. And before we go, there's one last thing. There's the plug 272 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.720 zone. You're now entering. The plugs out. Is there anything you want 273 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.920 to plug? Yeah, I mean, I'm just really excited to be a 274 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.680 part of this company. degreed. I started in June. So if anyone 275 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.750 you know in the southern California and Nevada area has any learning challenges at their 276 00:18:15.789 --> 00:18:19.430 organization, reach out to me. I love to chat with them. Thanks 277 00:18:19.470 --> 00:18:23.829 for listening to everybody. You've been listening to be to be growth show again. 278 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:26.460 I am your cohost, covered and you your lace, Patrick downs, 279 00:18:26.859 --> 00:18:30.339 and I'm still the sales trainer of pandaknock. Please connect with me on Linkedin 280 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:33.859 to show. Have your answer any questions, provide recommendations. Do you like 281 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:37.059 this episode or have a question? Join the discussion on Instagram at B to 282 00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:41.339 be gross show. Thank you for tuning in and subscribing for the be to 283 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:47.009 be gross show. So next time, everybody. This episode is brought to 284 00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:51.009 you by Panda Doc. Sending your documents is pdf through email is super old 285 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:53.849 school. It's time to while this socks off your prospects, clients and colleagues 286 00:18:55.049 --> 00:18:57.799 by creating, sending, tracking and e signing with Panda Doc. Go to 287 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.400 panda dooccom slash B to be today and start a completely free trial. No 288 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:03.559 credit card required.