Revenue Operations: Systems for Scalable Growth, with Stephen Diorio

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:19.359 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block. 3 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:24.719 Today I am joined by Steven Diorio. He is the managing director at the 4 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:31.839 revenue enablement institute and he's the CO author of revenue operations. Steven, were 5 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:35.520 so glad to have you joining us on B tob growth today. I'm excited 6 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:38.640 to be here. Well, let's start here. Man, you are the 7 00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:41.920 author of a new will, Co author, I should say, have a 8 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:46.920 new book revenue operations. Give me the origin story there behind what I would 9 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:50.920 call a very timely book. Yeah, that's great. I've been doing go 10 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.439 to market consulting since then, early S, even before that, and you 11 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.479 know, I've had a front row seat of the introduction of technology and digital 12 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:07.239 channels analytics into the sales of marketing mix. And you know, on that 13 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:12.040 journey you've seen episodes of success. You know all we've automated email, see 14 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:19.599 RAMAS and island. That does useful things, but by and large, organization's 15 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:25.040 a fail to harness the power of technology to generate scalable growth, meaning get 16 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.200 on more growth with less resources and more consistent growth and a lot of thesons 17 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:36.040 are at the technology. It's really leadership, change management, changing how people 18 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:41.799 get paid, motivating teamwork. So we created this institute in this book to 19 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:47.799 sort of lead the board level conversation almost on commercial transformation, because any sales, 20 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:53.319 natement, sales operations marketing off person we've ever met knows exactly what they're 21 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.319 doing, but they're not in power to take the risks and make the change. 22 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.439 There's fan of control is way too narrowble talk about that, and so 23 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:05.959 I think this whole notion of revenue operations. I hate buzzwords, but literally 24 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:10.560 every day we're just seeing hundreds of New v piece of revops calling us up 25 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:15.759 like what's My job? I have more control now. So something's here and 26 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.280 we'll talk about what it is and how can make a difference. Yeah, 27 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:23.159 let's go to to what it is and a and we'll definitely be talking about 28 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.439 how it can make a difference. At its core, you see revenue operations 29 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.039 as a solution to what problem that many of us are facing. Like, 30 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.960 what would you say? The why is behind why? We need a system 31 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.800 for this consistent and scalable growth. Got Three dimensions. If you do it 32 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:43.319 forty year time series, which I can do since one thousand nine hundred and 33 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:47.000 eighty, and you looked at the capital and operating expenditure against growth. It 34 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:52.879 used to be like Madman TV and magical sales people getting in cars eight wheel 35 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.560 sales calls. Now, if you look at it now, it's two thirst 36 00:02:54.599 --> 00:03:00.840 technology and what we call owned digital channels. You know these are email, 37 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:06.280 this is sales engagement channel is contactless selling. The media portion of the mix 38 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.719 has gone way down. The whole motion of a CMO and an that agency 39 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:16.599 has been reinvented. sometings become a capital intensive, data driven digital team sport. 40 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:22.400 That's a whole different ball game from what most people were taught on. 41 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:27.800 A most people who raised there's really no executive in the organization save the CEO. 42 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:30.560 WHO's really got their hands on all the leavers to solve the problem. 43 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.560 I'd say the problem, Benjie, is I've got a revenue cycle that goes 44 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:38.759 from, you know, development to sales to expansion and loyalty. There's not 45 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:45.439 one single throat to choke. Who's responsible for the experience, the metrics, 46 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:50.479 leakage or whatever? It spans a lot of different silos. Double Click in, 47 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.800 Benjie. Now you're looking at operations. Some organizations have thirty or forty 48 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:59.080 different operational group sitting on top of their data and assets. We live in 49 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.240 a world of intangible assets. Over eighty percent of the stock price of a 50 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:10.080 company is is determined by intangibles, intellectual property, of process know how data 51 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:14.680 insights, not buildings, inventory, factories, machines, and so in that 52 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:19.120 world, your data is probably your biggest asset. It's actually worth more than 53 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:24.360 American our lines. They actually secure loan that way, and the show me 54 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:30.199 a person who's responsible for curating, valuing, monetizing and harvesting that data. 55 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.639 Now they got people who are managing the planes, they've got people who are 56 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:38.720 managing the buildings. Are the factories? I used to be a form in 57 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:43.399 myself about. In this world of intangibles, I think, and the fact 58 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.600 that these are the biggest assets in the company, I think a new operating 59 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:54.000 model is needed and we're calling that revenue operations. People other people call revops 60 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:57.519 different things, but I think you know it's commercial model. It is. 61 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.639 Yeah, and we could spend the whole episode together just looking at what's happening 62 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:06.279 inside each of you know these revenue centric functions and all of this increasing complexity. 63 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:09.839 I would love to nerd out with you on that. I don't know 64 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.920 how many people would have their eyes glaze over. So we're not going to 65 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.920 go all the way down that road. We're going to talk specifically directly to 66 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.439 the marketers here on be to be growth. How do you see revenue operations 67 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:26.560 being a must in the increasing ambiguity that is marketing today? You know, 68 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.959 I worked in the forbasium a practice and I hear you. So what I've 69 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.000 done with the marketing Accountidy Standards Board and some of the best academics in the 70 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:38.920 world, and again it's their stuff, not mine, is we have identified 71 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:43.879 the calls of factors, eighteen of them, that drive growth. Brand preference 72 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:47.519 is one of them. Customer Loyalty It as another. Others are company information, 73 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:53.000 sharing, the digital experience. If you look at the eighteen factors, 74 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:58.480 nobody in the company has their hands on all those dials. The executive who 75 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:02.600 technically should or could would own the more of those things is marketing. At 76 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.639 the same time, I think he's you. You made an important point. 77 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:12.879 Marketing is in the world of ambiguity. They've latched onto the brand which is 78 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.560 in like in the Middle Corps, at seven percent of the value of the 79 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:19.800 firm. But nobody is valuing that. They've latched on to media, media 80 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:25.560 as in secular decline and it's an afterthought. It particularly at a consumption model. 81 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.360 And technically they used to own the digital channels, they used to own 82 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.480 the first party data, they used to own and Lytus and insights when it 83 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:36.959 was an infant. But I'm hearing seem all vetnah. They took analytics away 84 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:41.480 from him, other Comos, they took their toys away from him. So 85 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:46.800 in the absence of financially valid business case that say, I am the person 86 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:51.639 who's pulling all the economic leavers in this business. They're getting whittled away. 87 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:58.439 Those who latch onto brand and media are struggling because those are never been front 88 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.160 row issues in the boardroom, even if they are important. So I think 89 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:09.680 marketing is in an interesting situation. They have the skill set and the mandate 90 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.360 to control more of the value, but they're kind of last in line when 91 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.360 it comes to you know, sales. You know what? What we see 92 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:23.439 happening is someone's going to be elevated to this cxo brand pooba called a Tzarre 93 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:28.839 position where they control more the revenue cycle. You could make the argument that 94 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.439 that marketing should be that person that's serious x Ms. you know you've got 95 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.199 really strong CMO who is doing that. Then in the call themselves a CMO. 96 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:42.920 Same thing that at places like juniper you've got a very collaborative CMO who 97 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:46.279 gets involved. The average CM although, is watching their job become more and 98 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:51.000 more ambiguous, even though technically they're sitting on first part of data. They 99 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:56.480 have the skills sets, they understand a lot of these things. So really, 100 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.279 really good question. I know I rambled, but I we can. 101 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.279 We can unpack that more. Yeah, I think it's just such an interesting 102 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.399 time right because we're seeing roll ups of in trying to combine different departments and 103 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.720 we're calling it different things, but ultimately, like this revenue team, if 104 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.560 you will, sales marketing, we can seet we see CMOS that are if 105 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:22.439 they have that revenue mindset enough, they can carry it these conversations that must 106 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.839 be had into board room level. But oftentimes I do think it's just this 107 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:35.000 ambiguous space right. Absolutely, a couple things. The modern selling machine looks 108 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.000 like a bow tie. You know, you've got a classic funnel with Business 109 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.159 Development at the beginning, there's a transaction in the middle and then it expands 110 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:48.320 again a loyalty usage account expansion, Cross cell and marketing. I think one 111 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:54.360 of the tricks problems is they've been always relegated to demand generation and the very, 112 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.320 very from the phone when I would argue when I talked to a CMO, 113 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:03.480 they should control everywhere that comes out of, you know, People's lips, 114 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:07.919 every RFP, every communication, and the technology is there to do that. 115 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:11.279 Do it and if they understand the value proposition, the brand promise and 116 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.279 the messaging, that red thread should be coming out of service people's mouths. 117 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.279 It should be reinforcing cross cell and we have the channels and technology to do 118 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:22.279 that. So that whole mentality that Oh, I'm going to live at the 119 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:28.240 very fun with this funnel versus informing the conversation across the boat tie. That's 120 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:33.320 one of the tricks. I think you know that picture and saying my mandate 121 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.879 is I've got I'm doing value selling and service calls. My messaging and value 122 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.200 messaging has to be there, just like it needs to be at the front. 123 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:48.879 That's a vector that I think marketer should be pursuing changing that perception, 124 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.759 changing their scopes, building alliances, building connective tissue to do that. So 125 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.720 that's one one thing I'm seeing a lot of. Yeah, I like the 126 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:01.000 bow tie analogy and I definitely you're seeing more of these conversations happening right because 127 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:07.360 we're hearing about customer marketing in a different way and people are are trying a 128 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:09.840 lot. I've had a number of conversations on me to be gross where that 129 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.840 has come up and people are ready to innovate in that space, to be 130 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.720 thinking through, as you mentioned, that entire bow tie and I now I 131 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.200 think of it, even imagining it's almost like a smile. Right, we're 132 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.320 keeping these. You know that that's a better way to do it. Yep, 133 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:31.240 HMM. Okay. So let's talk changing just slow lately on the subject 134 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.320 here, but you've compiled research for this book. How do you see revenue 135 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.440 operations really creating value for the organization? And what I mean by this question 136 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:45.159 is, can you just give me some specific examples of the Roi that you've 137 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.159 seen, because you list so many in the book and you've done the compiled 138 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.000 the research, but what would you say are some of the specific examples of 139 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.679 Roli. Okay, yeah, so we try to use a different set of 140 00:10:54.720 --> 00:11:01.600 eyeglasses when we do this. We think about selling US commercial assets and you 141 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:05.000 know, Layman's terms, this is a ton of sales tech, twenty five 142 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.440 tools. This is a ton of channels. Channels are real, that's real 143 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:13.360 infrastructure. Think about Amazon, you know, and then there's a ton of 144 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.840 MARTEC and underneath that MARTEC is a ton of first part of data. You 145 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:22.000 know. That's data of people coming to your website. It's mostly anonymous. 146 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.360 But if you think about where I'm spending my money, I'm yielding this massive 147 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.559 pile of first part of data. Those assets are disconnected. That first part 148 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.080 of data is largely not informing sales and service conversations and vice versa, and 149 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:41.279 that sales tech is woefully under utilized and disconnected. So those are the assets. 150 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:45.320 Those are the assets. The data is not inform in the channels, 151 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:50.279 the machine isn't working. Insights. We live in a world of AI and 152 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:56.320 AI is a real value creator. We've identified a hundred technologies that are enabling 153 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.399 modern selling. There worth a trillion dollars. There's no way on earth that 154 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:05.919 the established markets for those companies could even approach that type of valuation. They're 155 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.799 like nuclear energy. It's like an Adam. I am unleashing the power of 156 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:16.879 a company's data and it's latent assets. That's why these companies are creating so 157 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.879 much value, and so that's in insights. Insights can inform everything, and 158 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:24.399 then value creation. Let's walk through the numbers. Take a look at the 159 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:31.600 economics of rep recruiting, ramping and retention. That's a flywheel, five different 160 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.759 organizations, by the way, people spend it in an enormous amount of money. 161 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.919 No one's adding that. No one's adding that number of HR it has. 162 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.919 Some of it. Training has some of that. Sales and name on. 163 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.399 Has saw sign those managers ton, a ton of money. And, 164 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.200 by the way, the numbers are terrible. You know, with the great 165 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.399 you know with the great residue resignation, people are dropping out at the cost 166 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.039 of losing a sales wrap after eighteen months is astronomical. Should be on the 167 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:03.440 CEO's docket. It isn't. Technology can really create a lot of value there 168 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.879 because I can create connective tissue between the on boarding and the panels to the 169 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:13.960 ramping and the coaching and reinforcement and then the reward systems that get people to 170 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:18.559 pass along. I do a profiles every week. Last week we did the 171 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:24.919 chief growth officer at at CDW. There repretention is out of this world. 172 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.720 You know, it's like a turtle's life, it's so long and quite frankly, 173 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:33.279 all they're doing is they're just optivate of a captain. They own that 174 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.120 process. So one there is enormous. The equn the difference between people sticking 175 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:41.559 around for twenty four months versus twelve months, the difference between ramping. Every 176 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:46.679 month of ramp is costing a tens of thousands of dollars. If you connect 177 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.720 sales and ablement to sales writtiness, to sales engagement and create a closed loop 178 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.360 system that says this training works or doesn't, this playboat works or doesn't, 179 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:01.240 this rack, this behavior is good or bad. Their skills are good or 180 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.639 bad, they're good or bad, their priorities are good or bad. I 181 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:07.799 could isolate what it is. There are no bad sales people, there are 182 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:13.039 just sales people who behave badly, just like children and so, but nobody 183 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.519 looks at those metrics. I could double triple. I guess I can get 184 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:22.720 a x x, ten x return by just dealing with those variables. People 185 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.559 buy value selling methodologies. No one's asking whether if people deploy a perfectly it 186 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.840 works. It's intuitive, but but we can let that's one exeria. Another 187 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:37.720 exerias resource avocation. Most salespeople because they're optimistic and outgoing, like some people 188 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.960 we know on this call being here, they're hopeful. They chase too many 189 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.519 accounts. I've never met a cheap revenue officer who said, oh, we 190 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.720 don't chase enough accounts. We all chase too many accounts and we willingly go 191 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.159 after people who probably are reaches. If we can combine analytux insights for pensity 192 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:00.879 to buy, to say and maybe don't call on Ben you today, you 193 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:05.559 know, maybe double down on this other person, there's an infinite amount of 194 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:11.399 opportunity just in allocating my time against higher probability opportunities. Yeah, layer upon 195 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.799 that the seven levers in a sales force. One is treatment, you know, 196 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.559 Gold treatment, bronze treatment, silver treatment, cotton treatment. One is 197 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.759 rolls. We're seeing all sorts of roles and pods and and different hybrid roles 198 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.080 in the sales process. The other is coverage. We talked about that. 199 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:37.799 The other is incentives. Am I motivated for acquisition or lifetime value or some 200 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:39.960 combination of the two? And then what products do you have in the bag? 201 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.200 Everyone wants to cross sell. How many products should you have? Those 202 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:48.960 are seven variables. If you think about those like a video game, I 203 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.960 can turn those dials and ways that double profitability, cut the cost of cells 204 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:58.440 in half or double growth. That's just a matter of turning those dials. 205 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.159 The problem is we don't treat it like a video game. Incentives are made 206 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.679 over here, territories are made over here, and so literally we have the 207 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.919 ability to make plan like a video game. Yet no one is looking at 208 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:17.360 it as optimization and allocation model. There's nothing magic to it. You just 209 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:22.279 spend more time on the activities in the people who are more higher potential and 210 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.320 you get the two extras in the three actions that we talked about. So 211 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:29.240 there's a lot in the hill, but I think it takes this top down 212 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.120 operating system perspective to start to see it. So I don't know how I 213 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:34.919 far. I want a little deep on that, but I can give you 214 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:40.639 more specific examples. 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All One word for a twenty five percent discount. All right, 230 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.920 let's get back into the show. There's a lot in the hill, 231 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:04.200 but I think it takes the top down operating system perspective to start to see 232 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.880 it. So I don't know if I went a little deep on that, 233 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.640 but I can give you more specific examples. No, I think that is 234 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.640 a great place for us to start. And, and you mentioned this in 235 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:15.920 the book and I was going to mention it later, but I'm going to 236 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:19.799 bring it up here. This idea of ultimately what this is doing is connecting 237 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.440 the most dots. If you can connect the most dots, you win, 238 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:29.000 right, and that, I think that is so key in this conversation is 239 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.759 going. What we're ultimately trying to do is create synergy behind all these different 240 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.920 parts that seem silod and like we're all we all have pieces of the information, 241 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.799 but the more that there is like this together, Miss Right that's happening, 242 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:47.559 where there's actual communication happening, technologies informing that, that's when you start 243 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:49.240 to win. And so I love that and we're going to go a little 244 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.279 bit further down that because there's some core building blocks to this system that I 245 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:59.160 want us to get to and I want us to talk about. So get 246 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.480 us into this by answering this question for me, Steven, what should in 247 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:07.039 operating system for business look like? What are you guys ultimately proposing? Because 248 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.359 there's a lot here. We go down a lot of other ultimately nine building 249 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.079 blocks, but walk us through from a high level what what you are are 250 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:22.519 proposing. It's a whole paradigm shift and it's like a pureicable for proof. 251 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.119 And that sounds really nerdy and I think you've warned people sufficiently. But you 252 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.400 know, there are thirty six building blocks and they double click down into more 253 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:37.079 building blocks. And so while that sounds complicated, compare that to the world 254 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:42.200 we live in. Over tenzero solutions, each with the unique category, each 255 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.839 spans fire, if they're any good, five or six garter group, gtwo 256 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.400 forster categories. Yeah, every CMO is coming up with the unique name to 257 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.000 describe them. All of them are solving little silos of automation in an organization. 258 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:02.480 Nobody has the guts to talk about connecting the dots because it doesn't facilitate 259 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:07.160 a sale. So while go into a peer one table with thirty six core 260 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:12.920 elements sounds complicated, it's actually a lot simpler because it lets you connect the 261 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.240 new bone to the thigh bone to the hip bone. Like I said, 262 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.559 if you just connected the training system to the NAVALOOD system running off the same 263 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.640 content, got a home run. Not Territory and quota planning. I've got 264 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.400 a connect for twenty or thirty different things, but the value is there and 265 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:36.400 at the end of the day we're creating a vocabulary that describes what is common 266 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:40.279 sense. And again, if I only own this Sidlo, but I see 267 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.680 the potential and connecting them. Let me give you a really good example. 268 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:48.920 Big Credit Card Company. Most of their marketing budget up for be tob is 269 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:55.319 on getting web leads. HMM, millions of leads, anonymous sitting over here. 270 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.039 Over here, I've got some of the biggest call centers in the world 271 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:02.799 and they wi Wye Technology. These two universes live in isolation. The entire 272 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.799 marketing budget is here. Somebody proposed spending thousands of dollars to connect those two. 273 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.359 It's called a PM. That attaches then on those profiles to hum an 274 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:18.519 account and gives it to a salesperson. Hard, but not difficult. Not 275 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.000 The relative and commental money would it would could rouple the value of the marketing 276 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:30.319 span and would make those salespeople much, much more successful. Nobody could articulate 277 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.279 the business case for the incremental spend to connect the need bone to the thigh 278 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.079 bone. There when the multiplier effects were huge, and so it was canusural. 279 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.680 It was silos. I mean, that's that. That case exists in 280 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.319 in every situation. And by the way, the ABM people probably are shooting 281 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:52.240 themselves in the foot because they come up with these horrible, complicated descriptions. 282 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.359 But it's connecting the need bone to the thigh bone and if you could explain 283 00:21:55.400 --> 00:22:00.160 it in English, that's probably the easiest funding reposition I could ever sell on 284 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.680 my life. But I cannot believe the resistance that my client got. So 285 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:07.880 that's that. That's an example. With a pureide table we can show how 286 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.440 that carbon chain comes together and how it craize value. So it's hard but 287 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:18.119 it's not difficult and it's durable because if you keep connecting the dots it gets 288 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.559 better and better and better and better, and a little connection doesn't have a 289 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.680 lot of change management cost to it. I'm just connecting things I already have. 290 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.279 They add up. That then ocean of continuous process improvement and incremental improvement 291 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.039 is finally taking home hold in sales. It was the you know rock the 292 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:41.559 bedrock of manufacturing, as you know, and even cycling. You know, 293 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.359 the British did it brillily. They added up a million a half a percent 294 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:51.079 improvements to win some gold metals. So I love that notion. And again, 295 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.799 maybe it's flipping the script, maybe it's a whole new set of eyeglasses, 296 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.200 but you try to figure out what a garden right or bad. You 297 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:02.640 part the rebops forced to put out a revops magic quadrate this week and have 298 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.720 two people on it puke on it. They said this doesn't describe it. 299 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:10.240 So it's a tricky world, wren. I'm just trying to bring some clarity 300 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:15.480 and it comes from all other experiments. Heyb to be gross listeners, we 301 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.440 want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for it. 302 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:23.640 Just head over to be tob growth podcom and complete a short survey about 303 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.359 the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars plus. 304 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:32.720 The first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying 305 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:37.440 thank you so much one more time. That's B TOB growth podcom, letter 306 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:45.359 B number two, letter be growth podcom. One entry per person must be 307 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.640 an active listener of the show to enter and look forward to hearing from you. 308 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.599 It's a tricky world, wren. I'm just trying to bring some clarity 309 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.400 and it comes from all other experiments. Yeah, one of the ways you're 310 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.759 bringing cleary is by giving these in specifically within revenue operations, is giving these 311 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.079 like nine building block so you have three growth assets, three commercial insights and 312 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:12.559 three value drivers. If someone's being introduced to this for the first time, 313 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:18.559 where would you have them kind of start in understanding how to think about those 314 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.240 specific three group Steven Absolutely, and again, I think you've established pretty clearly 315 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.839 been to you that I'm a Nerd, but I think this is cope. 316 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:30.880 Well, let's know. I can you know in Copernicus would lived at a 317 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:34.079 time when everybody thought the planets rotated around the earth, and what people are 318 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:40.039 realizing is the planets are rotator around the sun, and that Sun is this 319 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:47.200 the ashes combination of customer engagement, seller activity, product usage and financial transaction 320 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:51.480 data, and crm feeds that. But crm is not the sun. It 321 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:56.359 is a very important system within that ecosystem. If I have that Sun, 322 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:03.000 I can go north. We call that revenue intelligence. I can give the 323 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.960 senior management team important information about how well the machine is running. Those are 324 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:14.079 things like account health, Opportunity, potential, sell a performance, pipeline, 325 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:18.400 accuracy. Those are the big four. Will never get those perfectly right. 326 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:25.160 The more different data I combine together, the better those models get. The 327 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:29.759 more mature my algorithms are, the better they get. But going north, 328 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.359 I can do that if I was south. Now I'm dealing with frontline sellers. 329 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:38.240 I need to know tactical stuff. Who to call, what to sell, 330 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.400 what to say, what content to give them bring to the meeting, 331 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.519 how to personalize, how to price? Customer Intelligence. Are Taking? Yeah, 332 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:51.200 and that's customer intelligence. And again that's you know that that makes recommender 333 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:56.359 engines run on Amazon, that makes you know personal as injations runs that, 334 00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.559 that, that runs playbooks. But that intelligence makes a big difference. And 335 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:07.279 so I'm taking customer data and I'm trying to do the same thing combined data. 336 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.920 Oh, they can visit our website and they went to a conference and 337 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.240 they went to a competitive site and they're using our product a lot. That 338 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.519 tells me a lot more than just, you know, Zoom Info, which 339 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.599 is also useful. So again I'm driving that south. Different use case. 340 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.759 Both are creating value. I could also use that to come up with a 341 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.440 really good assumptions on what we call the response curve. Okay, every business 342 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.799 is saying how much if I put energy in, how much will they respond 343 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.079 that? At what point do I stop pushing? This is my data in 344 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.000 life, by the way. You know I put it. It's not getting 345 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.200 anywhere. Maybe I should have quit earlier. But my point is that curve 346 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.079 is applied. It's in people's guts, its institutional knowledge that purves should be 347 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.759 algorithmic, and the more precise I can be about that curve. Quid after 348 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.440 two days, Steve, it ain't happening kind of thing. Yep. So 349 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.920 so note is that assumption. Is that curve drawn anywhere in the company? 350 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:06.559 Probably not. Is it informing virtually every resource allocation decision in the company? 351 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:12.000 Absolutely yes. So we can get smarter about reproductivity instead of and response and 352 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:17.359 things like that. Again, the machine just runs better pricing. There's more 353 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.960 leverage in pricing than almost any other activity. ALGORITHMIC pricing says, you know 354 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.559 what, Benjio pay a lot more for a red car, because I know 355 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.119 that our Benjie is really interested in this one TV show, so he'll buy 356 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.000 the whole package, you know, at a heart at a higher price or 357 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:40.400 not, and that's more margin with no additional resources. So we're barely scratching 358 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:45.279 the surface of using the data in this molten sun in the middle to inform 359 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.480 those types of things, cross sell, upsell, alerts that people are going 360 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:53.319 to leave, signals that people are going to buy, even stuff like Eq. 361 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.400 You know, at this point Benjie's looking at me saying shut up, 362 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.720 Steve, you know I'm annoying. You know, whatever it is, but 363 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:04.599 what? But whatever it is, it's on pushing data out. So you 364 00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:08.559 said it. If I'm in the middle, go north to customer intelligence, 365 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:14.000 run the business, go to the you know, to one o'clock, talent. 366 00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:18.559 Why can't I use that information to develop talent? Three o'clock, allocate 367 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.799 resources for clock pricing and margin activity. Yep, five o'clock, do south 368 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:29.400 customer intelligence. Six o'clock, in form marketing activities. Seven o'clock. Make 369 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.720 the channels run better in a clock. See that information back and get those 370 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.960 systems working. One of the biggest problems we have is we've got a cycle 371 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.039 this data through crm, because that's a painter glass that matters, and so 372 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.039 if I can create a flywheel and create utilization of these tools, that's a 373 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:51.559 driver. So it's not perfect, it's mutually exclusive, it's collectively encompassing, 374 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:55.400 but at the end of the day is common sense and it describes everything that 375 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.759 creates value in a company and attaches it to an action and a piece of 376 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.720 technology. Wow, it was and now want to read a quote from the 377 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.160 book here, because the what you just broke down for us is connecting the 378 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.400 dots, which is what we were talking about before. Ultimately, everything you 379 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.640 just said is that's what connecting the dots would look like and in the book 380 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:21.440 you guys write the next generation of leaders distinguish themselves by how they get technologies 381 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:26.000 to work together for them. The building blocks we've together in technology ecosystems that 382 00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:33.960 generate higher returns on their selling assets and grow sales, profit and firm value. 383 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.480 Ultimately, the more dots you connect, I mean, the more wins 384 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:42.440 you're going to have and you're going to see the how this works itself into 385 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.880 massive success for the business. I want it. I want to take us 386 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:51.000 here as we start to wrap up, how do you see as people start 387 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:56.640 to apply this model how do you see this moving forward like? What what's 388 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:02.880 your belief about the company's that choose to take this and really run with it? 389 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.119 Couple characteristics. If you listen to what you said, it's almost like 390 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:12.759 cuisine. Every chef has the same ingredients. It's the people who combine ingredients 391 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:17.319 and even combine cuisines, text, Mex Yep, you know, things like 392 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:22.440 that that are distinguishing themselves, say in music, right, mixing genres exactly 393 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:27.759 exactly. Second, you need a chef. A CMO can't be that chef. 394 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:32.079 The perfect chef has the whole cabinet of food. You know, they're 395 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.319 acts. have access to the full pantry. And whether you do that by 396 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:40.279 coalition, by dictatorship or we think the most effective people are going to be 397 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.599 up dating myself, but the radar rilly of revenue ops, that that that 398 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.720 lieutenant who actually runs everything, because they've got his hands on all the data, 399 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:51.279 her hands on all the data. So one, you you need the 400 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:53.599 chef to it's cuisine. And then three, I think is going to be 401 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:57.319 very, very organic. You know, there's this whole thing, oh my 402 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:03.799 God, systems, integration, lots of immigration in the book, when, 403 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.000 again, with the Beautifu thing of the book is you probably read the only 404 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.920 sentence I wrote, because most of the book is, I think, verbatim 405 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:12.359 out of the mouths of senior growth leaders. But in the book we identified 406 00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:18.640 recipes that are working and that are proven and we start you off with, 407 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.720 I think, eight or nine recipes and hundred recipes, some basic recipes, 408 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.680 and we get some more advanced recipes, not like sufflice, but there's an 409 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.920 infinite number of recipes. There are no rules and we call them smart actions 410 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.400 because they're financially viable, they don't take a lot of political capital. Their 411 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.359 leveraging stuff you already have and they build on top of each other. It's 412 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:44.880 like a Lego set. So I really like that because, let's face it, 413 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.559 change management is the enemy of commercial transformation and it's nice to say, 414 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:52.640 Oh, we're going to do a big system integration, the big SAP project. 415 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.200 This sounds like the SAP project that killed people in the s. It 416 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.440 was necessary but painful. I believe this is going to be a lot more 417 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.559 organic. You're going to see coalitions form and I think these thoughts are going 418 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.440 to organically connect and I hope that's good news, because the whole notion of 419 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:14.000 systems integration, you know, and paving a repaving cow has is an Athabat 420 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:20.640 in the commercial world because in a genuine constraint is demandaging processes are highly unstable, 421 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.119 you know, they're highly unstable and and so automating them is a little 422 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.759 bit tricky. But this organic and actual nature, I think, is going 423 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.640 to be the game changer here and I've been waiting for this happen for twenty 424 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.839 years. So hopefully the time is right. I think we're a tipping point. 425 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:37.599 I definitely think we are at a tipping point as well, and so 426 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:42.640 I appreciate the work here. We've touched on a lot of information today. 427 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.680 Obviously there's clearly much more that people can dive into when they pick up the 428 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.119 book, and that's what we want to advise people to do. But as 429 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.720 listeners take this and then they head back to their jobs and they head back 430 00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.640 to their businesses, is there something you want to leave us with as far 431 00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:01.799 as maybe it's a mindset shift or an approach that maybe because of this conversation 432 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:06.519 today, they're going? Man, I remember Stephen and Benjie that conversation on 433 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.319 be to be growth sparked this sort of change in our organization. Anything you 434 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:12.759 want to leave us with today, Steven, as we wrap well, I 435 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:19.799 think the connecting the dots is critical. Every other business function, supply chain, 436 00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:23.440 factory, air traffic control, educating our children, heating and ventilating your 437 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:27.880 building, has a system. There's an operating system at a computer. What 438 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.079 is that? Just it got so complicated. I needed people to organize the 439 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:37.920 people process technology. We've hit a tipping point where people call them tech mayhem. 440 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.240 I got thirty solutions. It's I'm working for the tools. I think 441 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.920 it's time to get the people process the technology working together and I think this 442 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.880 leap to this notion of a pure at a table. You know, I 443 00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:52.000 know, I don't not promoting it. I just think it's a vocabulary that 444 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.720 can get us to start to make some really tough, good, top down 445 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:00.519 decisions and and hopefully, hopefully, that helps. It will, it will. 446 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.839 The book is called Revenue Operations and new way to align sales and marketing, 447 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.199 monetize data and ignite growth. It's available on Amazon now. We want 448 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:15.000 to encourage listeners to go pick that up and Stephen, thank you so much 449 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.719 for stopping by be to be growth today I know we've learned lots from you. 450 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.840 Tell us a little bit on where we can stay connected to you and 451 00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:27.039 the work that you're doing. So I run an institute and our mission is 452 00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:30.679 to educate the next generation of growth leaders. We a profile growth leaders like 453 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:36.400 cdw, who's doing a great job. So there's great examples on our website. 454 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.440 We have tools, we have assessments, we have reports, but we 455 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:44.880 believe education is our weapon of choice, and so I think you'll find a 456 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:49.639 ton of case studies. We've also identified the hundred technologies. We give you 457 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.440 tools and assessments. Will Give you a sample chapter. I'll work with you 458 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:59.039 bench on which one fits this recipe metaphor. But I think you know we're 459 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.679 here to teach. You. Go to Reveneme Oncom and I think you'll see 460 00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:06.639 some beef behind this conversation. Well, Stevens, thank you for stopping by 461 00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:08.239 be to be growth today. I know we've learned a lot from you. 462 00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:14.400 Thank you so much to everybody listening today. We are having insightful conversations like 463 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:19.119 this because we want to help fuel your growth in your innovation and we don't 464 00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.760 want you to miss an episode. So if you've yet to subscribe. Be 465 00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:25.239 Sure to do that on whatever your favorite podcast player is wherever you're listening right 466 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.480 now. Hey, connect with me on Linkedin if you haven't already. My 467 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.079 name is Benjie Block. Over there some super simple to find. I'm talking 468 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:36.320 about marketing business in life. I'd love to connect with you. Keep doing 469 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:59.800 work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. I