Prospect Experience as Competitive Advantage with Doug Bell

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:17.359 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be tob growth. Welcome 2 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:21.960 back to be to be growth. Today I'm excited to be joined by Doug 3 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:26.239 Bell. He's the CMO over at lean data and Doug, were so grateful 4 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.160 to have you here with us. That's going to be your venging. So 5 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:34.200 you've spent about the last eleven months or so at Cmo over there at lean 6 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:37.719 data. Tell me a little bit about what's the important work you guys are 7 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:43.520 focused on currently dug you know, it's a privilege to be in a place 8 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:47.079 where you're at a company that's helping with some major transition, right, and 9 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:49.719 that'll doesn't always happen. And, by the way, it's good to be 10 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:53.320 a companies that are not helping with transitions. Life as lotties here, and 11 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:55.560 this is the second time around for lean dead it being on the edge of 12 00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:00.000 a major transition. The first was this hyper scale that happened at the beginning 13 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:06.000 of the pandemic, which was this mass move online for most commerce. Right, 14 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:08.319 Yep, the vast majority of I think we would understand, though, 15 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:14.040 kind of laggerate stuff all that line, and for bb marketers that meant that 16 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:18.560 you know, you had an explosion of information in the market starting to come 17 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:22.400 in right. So the first was this hyperscale moment where everything went online, 18 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.000 and the second piece now is we're at the tail end of this place where 19 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:30.959 sales and marketing pros are out there and they have all this information, they 20 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.480 have no idea what to do with it. And so right now the exciting 21 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.719 thing I'm working on is helping the market rationalize how to ingest this data. 22 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.079 Yeah, make that data impactful so that they can sell more stuff. Yep, 23 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:48.040 data is the conversation everywhere, but if you can't distill the data into 24 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:53.359 actual actionable content we can use and then inform our business, like what are 25 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.519 we doing right? And numbers can't do to floating around. So I love 26 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:00.400 that. I know there is also this kind of constant question for us as 27 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:02.079 be to be marketers, the audience of this show just trying to answer. 28 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:06.480 Like, man, how do we stand out? Right, a lot of 29 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:07.960 us go into the data to figure that out. Like how do I stand 30 00:02:07.960 --> 00:02:12.960 out from our competitors were in crowded market spaces? How do we win? 31 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.960 And that's a question that really resonates with you. It's something that you've been 32 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.719 doing a lot of thinking around. How have you felt that tension as a 33 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:23.120 CMO, going like yeah, I mean that's something that we're all trying to 34 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:27.039 figure out. Right. How do we stand out from our competitors and how 35 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.840 has this become like a core passion of yours? Yeah, you don't have 36 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:35.159 to say we we collect these anecdotes over time, as professional as these moments, 37 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.800 right, and we used to share them before the before there was this 38 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:42.439 explosion of channels. It's called that social media. Let's call that this podcast, 39 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:45.560 right. How would we share that? We would we're going to write 40 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:47.840 a blog post or email the market, like I had this great experience. 41 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:52.360 But we always have these things, and so what I'm when finding now, 42 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:58.120 Benjie, is that these anecdotes that we have is revenue leaders are starting to 43 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.840 bubble up to the point that we're thinking, Gosh, we do something with 44 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.400 these anecdotes. Let me let me give an example of that, and I 45 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:07.879 just spent some time with the Cerro over it in flu two. We were 46 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:13.439 just talking about this and we talked about going is an example, and they 47 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:15.520 just keep coming up again and again and again. And why? Well, 48 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:20.879 you're asking about differentiation.'re Talking about this explosion of byre signals. And 49 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:23.680 what is an organization like gone done so well. So this is one of 50 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.599 those anecdotes that we get to share now and I'll get to the point, 51 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.439 Benjie, where I lead you into where I think this will take the market. 52 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:32.520 But the anecdote I have is when I was on their website, this 53 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:36.840 is Gush, a year and a half ago, and was looking into conversational 54 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.560 intelligence software and I felt this really tiny lead wretch for HMM, and within 55 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:43.719 thirty seconds I got a call on my phone and, by the way, 56 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.479 my phone number was not a part of that. It was from God right. 57 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.560 And what was that? Well, my Gosh, that was one of 58 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.520 the better prospect experiences I think you can have. I had high intent I 59 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.319 was a position of title and very likely ahead of a buying group, which 60 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.439 I was. Yeah, and that experience was wonderful. By the way, 61 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.319 I got the call and there like, what do you need from us to 62 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.800 understand whether or not you should get this kind of software in general. They 63 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:11.879 were even pitching me on God right. So how do we different shape? 64 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.800 Well, that's a good example of an antidote of an organization. It is 65 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.279 said, I'm going to make sure that that project experience is so good that 66 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:20.839 a guy like doug is going to get on a call like been with somebody 67 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.680 like Benji and say, Hey, I had a wonderful experience. So for 68 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.360 me right now, different Shad on really cross some credit market places that that's 69 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:33.160 man surety of us are creating poor prospect experiences. If you want to stand 70 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:39.759 out, make an effort towards really great customer experience, prospect experiences. That's 71 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:42.480 the first thing I would say, and that's what lean data is directed towards 72 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.480 right now. That's our entire mission, is to make sure that your prospects 73 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.560 are having a good time. Yeah, it's interesting because so often, as 74 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:55.160 in the marketing space specifically, I'll just say, we've become obsessed with like 75 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:59.680 leads. That's our gold, that's our metric we're based on. So it's, 76 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:01.439 you know, it's all that's it becomes all that's talked about if that's 77 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:05.199 the main goal you're trying to drive. And then you're kind of turning that 78 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.319 a bit and going o get down on a wait prospect experience, because if 79 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:13.199 all that matters as leads, you're not really getting the full picture. You're 80 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.680 not really like we don't really know where that person's actually at. So what 81 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:20.600 what have we missed? Because so much of the BETOB conversations I end up 82 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:26.879 in is one that's lead obsessed instead of prospect exier, experience obsessed. Yeah, 83 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.079 and I feel like I can do this, Benjie, this meaning really 84 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:33.120 hold my industry to task, and that's an industry I've watched grow up. 85 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:38.160 I remember in ninety nine when sales force really started picking up steam and people 86 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.000 like, no one's going to buy software that's that's based in this. I 87 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.439 gave a server that I can't control. That was the voice of the market 88 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:46.879 back then, by the way, if you're wonderment that was. That's the 89 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.040 past market voice, right, sounds right on. Yeah, exactly. So 90 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:58.720 really that was this this beginning of saying that we could in fact begin to 91 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:01.040 think about our buyers a little bit differently back then, right, which was 92 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:05.560 that we made this transition from I'm selling a lot of software for one big 93 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:12.959 purchase price to a group of people, and quite often those connection points came 94 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.399 together fairly easily, believed or not. Right. So there weren't a lot 95 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:19.319 of players. It was very expensive to get a software company going your space 96 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:23.879 might have had three or four companies and guess what? Those buyers would go 97 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:26.199 and say, okay, here the three companies, I'm going to interact with 98 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.639 all three companies. So there's Society of a lead, but the lead was 99 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:31.920 much more like a fell it was like it would come in and be like 100 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.319 Oh, that was from some ivy up. Okay, let's get on the 101 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:39.199 phone. Boom you would go. Well, what sorted happening over time is 102 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:46.959 your ability to capture leads and offer up content that generated leads just exploded right, 103 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.600 and so we as market or started getting very, very focused, and 104 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:53.480 that's d of the idea of the lead being the end all be all, 105 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.560 because if you brought enough of the man, eventually you would find that thing 106 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:59.160 we found in the S, which was the deal that just sort of walked 107 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.160 up, because there's only three players. So I feel like a part of 108 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:04.879 it is just that we could get leads. We started creating content that generated 109 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:12.160 more leads and they end the day within there was always those deals and correlation 110 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.160 causation challenges. We would be like we got tenzero leads to produce six deals. 111 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.839 You probably could have produced twenty leads and produce six deals. So it's 112 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:23.720 sort of the self perpetuating cycle because, guess what, it's a such an 113 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.319 easy thing. Think about, Benjie. It's such an easy thing. I've 114 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.680 stuff at the top of the funnel and all waterfalls down at the bottom are 115 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.040 the US, and I think we just lost our way. HMM. And 116 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:39.480 it's interesting because the evolutions happening also so quickly that sometimes you don't stop to 117 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:43.759 just like examine where are we in this process and like have we maybe created 118 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.399 something as the holy girl that just like shouldn't be ultimately, but we got 119 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:49.720 stuck doing what seemed like it made sense at the time. I like this 120 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:55.600 as an evolution. Going to why prospect experience? Now people are feeling that, 121 00:07:55.680 --> 00:08:00.120 they're sensing that, but I wonder, like for Doug, what does 122 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:05.000 prospect experience all include? If you were giving US phone call, great example, 123 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.319 the Gong example. That's that's one aspect of prospect experience, but what 124 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.800 all does it include in your mind from the CMOC? Yeah, I think 125 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.560 that's a really astute question, Ben Jay, and I would say I'd start 126 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:24.879 with something that's more fell but deep prospect empathy being so in other words, 127 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:26.920 and cause you hear this from bire persona stand like you see, there's all 128 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.920 sorts of ways to rationalize this. No, your ice understand the buying groups 129 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:37.320 within the ICEPN understand buying fire persons, Cups. That's all important, very 130 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.399 important stuff. But I think the first place I'd start with is we're all 131 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:46.759 be to be SASS buyers. Are Stacks are populated by fellow be to be 132 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.840 set solutions. Right. Right, so we've all been buyers at some point. 133 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.279 And what was it? What are the things that you really detested through 134 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:58.000 that process? Right, so, as an example, how many of us 135 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.080 have done this? You go to the lead reach for and you fill it 136 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.919 out. You're like, Oh God, and you put your personally miltress in 137 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.240 there as if it's kind of solve any problems, and then you brace for 138 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:13.399 that SDR call and you brace for that avalanche right of information coming through. 139 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.559 You like the software, you like the company, but you're still even nervous 140 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.960 to put your information and because you like I just don't know if I want 141 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.559 this interaction. Yeah, that that's that. You know, you ask me 142 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.559 a question, but do I'm giving you that sort of negative experience or sure, 143 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.519 it's that and I'm saying. Start with that in mind at a beginning. 144 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:33.399 That's first thing. The second thing to recognize is this. People are 145 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:39.919 looking for information to help them make a good decision and a few if that's 146 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.960 what you're focused on, if you can focus on helping them make a good 147 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:46.440 decision. By the way, sometimes making good decision is not buying your brand 148 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.919 right. So I went back to goog would god say to me and again, 149 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.399 guys, Gong is not the best company the world. If you look 150 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:56.519 out online right now, they're getting like they're getting hammered because, guess what, 151 00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:00.679 their response rates are down and they're not putting reprospect e experience. It's 152 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.919 a whole other show Venie. It's called scale, which is really hard write, 153 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.399 you know, super hard. That's what they're experiencing right right, if 154 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:09.519 you think about it, what do they say to me? They said, 155 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.720 how can we help you make a good decision, and they meant it. 156 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:16.759 Now that's sort of easy as a brand domino, which is where they were 157 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:18.919 at that point. I would argue they still are. But that's the thing 158 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.000 I'm actually referring to. Is, and they, by the way, they 159 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.759 were like here all these resources and those resources weren't always gone resources. They 160 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.759 actually sent me some competitor stuff and I'm like, woof, that's great. 161 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.480 So, backing into the question a bit more, how do we create these 162 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.799 situations where we're much more likely to create a great experience? Starts with empathy. 163 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.519 Then it starts with putting yourself in that shopper shoes and actually going and 164 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.559 find the informations going to help them fast. Now there's a red text st 165 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.159 act that's got to sit behind that. There's methodology, it's got to sit 166 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.600 behind it, but that's the first two things. I'd start with empathy for 167 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.879 the prospect walk around their shoes and then saying how do I create a wrap 168 00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:01.639 around experience for that? I love both of those. I think empathy is 169 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:07.120 something that, as you come into an organization, is probably caught even a 170 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:09.159 bit more than it could just be, you know, taught in your onboarding 171 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.159 or something where you're going, this is the type of people we are, 172 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:15.799 but they're going to sense it in the way that you equip them and what 173 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.519 you provide, even in that information side of things, right, like how 174 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:24.240 do we distill information for those that are coming in as prospects and what do 175 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.840 we place our emphasis on. What is that look like in your mind to 176 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.080 have that information available? Is that just something you're equipping your marketers, your 177 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:35.559 sales team with? Like what? What kind of information do you think you 178 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:41.519 guys place like high priority on in that that portion of this. I'm going 179 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:46.320 to start with Lee data itself and what we were to pretend to prioritize for 180 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:52.159 ourselves, and then I'll talk about what we're seeing the market prioritize. So 181 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.919 what we're prayor to what we are prioritizing ourselves is, like a lot of 182 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:03.039 organizations, Benjie are red text that got big right, especially like and they. 183 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.960 We talked about that pandemic surge and we knew as rev ops organizations, 184 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:09.840 that if there was a sales or marketing challenge, there was an application we 185 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:15.279 can we could apply to that challenge. And what we're doing internally right now 186 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.320 is we're saying, how do we optimize that stack? Now, the optimization 187 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.360 piece, and I'm was just on my pulpit ten seconds ago talking about how 188 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.879 we're pretty bad process that experiences. But as we're looking at the REP text 189 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.159 act, that's what we're looking at right and actually, just before I popped 190 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.639 on with you is fielding an email from our head of the ser organization looking 191 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.679 at our thank you email that goes out with somebody completes a demo page and 192 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.960 he was like there's not nearly enough good information on this like that. There's 193 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.799 not nearly and I was like, boom, got it. Great, so 194 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.440 this is a good example of micromment, right, but it was it for 195 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:48.600 him. He was saying, how do I create a better experience for that 196 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.559 prospects so they can make a better decision? So what we're looking at US 197 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.600 how do we not consolidate the web text because I tell you, there's still 198 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:00.639 so many holes right, but it's how do we get that to better interoperate? 199 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.600 We're calling that orchestration. So how do we take all these buyer signals 200 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.440 that are coming through and how are we connecting them together so that we can 201 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.320 fire off great plays, like an email from an str that says hey, 202 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.840 by the way, based on intent data, that's something the email says, 203 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.679 but based on intent data and prior experience, we know that you're really on 204 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.000 it. At the beginning of the BIERS Journey, here's some stuff to help 205 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:22.799 you with that. And by then we were not going to call you right, 206 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.720 you're not going to bug yeah, so that's we're focused on. Where 207 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:31.120 I see the market is a little bit different. We have the great glory 208 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.600 at the date of having to be in the middle of the Red Tex STAC 209 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:35.639 and having to be cutting edge. Ben Jay, we sort of have to 210 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.919 be. We have to drink our own champagne. But as I see the 211 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:45.120 larger market, I'm seeing a lot of organizations super stuck in lead base systems 212 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:48.639 and not doing well with those leapage systems. Am I do I have permission 213 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.200 to quote some studies that I've recently? Yeah, of course, that's why 214 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.559 you're here. Huh. Okay, so the first is the first studio quote 215 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:00.440 is actually study we partnered with any issued in April of this year. It's 216 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:05.519 the state of BB lead management. Import had some amazing partners and sales hacker 217 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:11.080 outreach, Matt Hinds Marketing and sales force and good seventeen hundred revenue leaders across 218 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.679 North America to respond to the survey. So it's the state of lead management 219 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.320 and we just talked about how did addicted to it. I think, Benj 220 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.200 we said twenty years right. So that that's contact. Like we started being 221 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:26.120 able to really focus on leads twenty years ago and we're out now addicted to 222 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.039 it. So this is this is fascinating stuff to me. It is evidence 223 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.559 of what we call a regun orchestration breakdown. Right. So we did this 224 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:37.080 study and seventeen hundred people spot and we said we have question for like, 225 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.440 are you happy with you lead management system? And eight nine percent of people 226 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:43.759 said yeah, it's great, doing fantastic. We said great, how do 227 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:46.399 you think you're doing from a lead response time? And Eighty nine percent of 228 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.000 those books that we're doing great, fantastic. Are you better than we? 229 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.000 After you think you're better than the average bear out there, like fifty percent 230 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:56.399 of time. Absolutely, probably beating our competition. And we said how often 231 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.519 are you routed leads the right person? He said thirty three percent of the 232 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:05.840 Times. Me, it's a lot of other events for an act wit. 233 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:09.519 So I'm happy with my system. My system is faster than everybody else's system 234 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.720 are. Half the time I'm faster and then fifty seven percent of the time 235 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.559 I send the lead to the lead of the wrong person. HMM, right. 236 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.200 So to saying what if that like? So what if that like for 237 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.879 the prospect and quite often when ends up happening as we go, lead to 238 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.519 the wrong person. Right now, I guess what wrong people, and so 239 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.879 we'll see this a lot. And this happens that our customers, again amazing 240 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.440 folks out there looking to make a difference in terms of those experiences. But 241 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.600 even at our own customer base, until they get our software, this is 242 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.320 not at this is not an advertiser related a lots of their software helps to 243 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.320 do the stuff, folks, but you get four or five me at the 244 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:48.559 emails because you filled the form right. So that's a good example for me, 245 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:50.759 Benjie, and that we were addicted to something, that we're not handling 246 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.879 that asset well and the end result is really horrible prospect or customer experience. 247 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.360 Yeah, and if the prospect it like just because you're in their inbox doesn't 248 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:04.399 mean on when you are the person creating those emails, you feel fantastic, 249 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:07.480 like Oh, look at we're giving this content to them, they're in this 250 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.440 sequence. We get obsessed with the behind the scene side of things and again, 251 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.840 like it's just a human condition, is you lose sight of, like 252 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.840 what that's like to be the prospect, no matter how many times you do 253 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.879 this, you have to have like questions you call yourself back to to actually 254 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.679 put yourself in their shoes, and I've I'm so guilty of this. Right. 255 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.679 You create the thing and you don't think about what it's like to be 256 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:33.639 on the other side of the thing, and so flipping that is is wonderful. 257 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.919 Okay, let's I love that you were just talking with an str thinking 258 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.159 through this email. That's a good example of like a just tactical thing we 259 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.519 could be doing, re examining how can we make this experience better. Can 260 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.120 you give me some other good examples, things that we can be looking at 261 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.240 to make a better prospect experience? Yeah, I can, and that's maybe 262 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.919 let's stay with this idea of the inbound buyers journey as as a ruler what 263 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:00.279 we can't bend it. Yeah, because I think it's the easiest thing to 264 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.400 understand. And some other stats are going to throw out there. So just 265 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.400 as a a Miter to US sales and marketing leaders, we only see seventy 266 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.680 seventeen percent of the buyers turning another words, only seventeen percent of the bires 267 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.519 journey's visible to us. Right. This is Gartner study and I think at 268 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.519 one point was thirty percent. Now we're down to seventeen percent right, so 269 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:26.519 we have this very kind of limited view into their experience overall. So good 270 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.160 examples of thinking about that buyers journey and how the prospect experiences it is this. 271 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:34.200 Let's start with that information stage, or that research stage if you will, 272 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.000 and in everybody's head right now you should have a funnel. Okay, 273 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.240 the top of that funnel is that beginning of the buyers journey. Do you 274 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:48.599 think that your organization has all the useful information necessary for that prospect to make 275 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.039 a decision on whether or not they should move the next stage? And there 276 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:56.039 were whether or not that their problem and your solution set set should match up. 277 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.200 And know it's rhetorical, but I got to ask that, I got 278 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.200 to answer the question. The answers absolutely not. Right. So, as 279 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.960 marketers, if you're thinking about a really great prospect experience, and again this 280 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:08.519 is the demain of marketers, right, we'll talk about sales the bottom of 281 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.960 the phone, but at the top of the funnel, what are all the 282 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.200 things that they've got to go and interact with? And in BB software right 283 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.640 now it's a lot. But there are also some really great services out there. 284 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:23.680 So think about trust radius and GTWO crowd. Yeah, right. So 285 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:29.200 if if you go and Google a product name, you're likely to get at 286 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.079 the top of the surf. So as you as you google something, you're 287 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:33.759 to get search engine results. Right. So what are you going to see 288 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.920 at the top of the serfs? You can see advertisements from competitors, right, 289 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.759 if you're like you know contract management software, you can see all the 290 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:45.240 advertisers and the first link you're likely going to see after that is from GTWO 291 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.319 crowd or trust radius and get it depends in industry, might be another service, 292 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.519 but those are usually the two that bubble up. They're going to click 293 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.839 on that and what are they going to find? So tip number one is 294 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:03.759 think about how they're what resources they're gathering not on your website and what gaps 295 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.799 you can fill on your website. Yeah Right. So what's that? What's 296 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.839 my balance point to the things that aren't out there? So that's that's one 297 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.000 example. Right, review sites are really, really helpful, but if you're 298 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.839 selling at a large enough price point, you've also got the analyst community out 299 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.799 there. It's going to get them resources. So how are they seeing this 300 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.519 world as reflected to the analyst. And guess what? If the analyst put 301 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.240 you in a category and you don't want to be in that category, it 302 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.039 may not matter. Right, doesn't happen. Point. Probably it doesn't make 303 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.039 your stock right. So it'll try and Slove scream from the analysis, an 304 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.160 example. But those are areas where you can stop, take a pot, 305 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:42.839 take to take a beat and go. My job on my website is to 306 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.960 fill those gaps and if you can take that perspective, and by the way, 307 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.920 gaps aren't for the best software in the world. But no, what 308 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.240 is it they're missing from those other sites at the top of that stage, 309 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.720 right, and I'm I'm actually cut shortcutting and saying people generally said there's a 310 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.160 problem, solution, match up. They're on g two, crowd or trust 311 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.640 radius. Right, I'm sort of skipping down on that stage, but that's 312 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:08.039 a really good example I can give you. Think about your overall content strategy 313 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:11.000 in the context of what information they're missing. And guess what, guys are 314 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.519 going to have a much better they're gonna have a much better experience and they're 315 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:17.519 going to think of your branded a more positive way. Yeah, and having 316 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.000 some sort of way where your resourced really well to know what's on your site 317 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:27.119 and how you equip sales leaders marketing leaders with that information. Hey, we've 318 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.319 already done this, don't try to do the work again. That's something I 319 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:34.119 notice is like we have so much information in our organization. So we're like 320 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.400 maybe at some point I've covered this right, like we have to have a 321 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.039 content piece on this somewhere. We've have to have created something that would answer 322 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:45.039 this question. If you can index that really well, you win, because 323 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.519 then you can, you know, you can shoot that over in a very 324 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.559 personal way and I've, I mean I've had that happened a couple times where 325 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.000 it's just a link to something they've already created on my those very extremely helpful. 326 00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:57.880 So I like that. As you're moving down you we started with like 327 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:03.880 top of fune marketing, but go maybe closer as they come into sales, 328 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.480 because you had alluded to that. Yeah, so one thing I want, 329 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.559 it just such a great call up Benji by the way, is that there's 330 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.839 an explosion of content our own websites, around blogs, because we're doing the 331 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.319 SEO thing right. We're looking for that reach right. We were also thinking 332 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.759 the cuss there's going to be content to address every moment in the biers journey, 333 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.400 and I applaud organizations that think that way. But quite often when ends 334 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:30.519 up happening is they confuse Seo con content, nother words top of funnel stuff. 335 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.359 It's going to get people through with content that's going to help people make 336 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.799 a disclude decisions for the yeah, right, so don't confuse the tool. 337 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:40.799 They're very different and you're the term you're going to hear is ever being content. 338 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.240 If you're ever being content, produced Seo resalts for you, that's great, 339 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.039 but please God, don't make it try and be an SEO instrument. 340 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.880 Recognize what it's doing. Okay. So as we get further into the funnel, 341 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.680 good things that I'd recommend. This is this is where that partnership with 342 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:59.400 strs and sale starts really kicking in. Is when you're getting engage with a 343 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.200 prospect and other words they have raised their hand and they've said interested in your 344 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:11.400 product or service, take that as an opportunity to create expertise and understanding, 345 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.960 not pitch your product. So if, and I want everybody who's listening in, 346 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.319 Beni know a lot to st our leaders are listening in. I have 347 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.160 a challenge for you. I want you to listen and use your Gong or 348 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.880 whatever, your conversational intelligence software. I want to I want to understand if, 349 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.920 in your first discovery call, how many times your brand is mentioned and 350 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.240 how many questions they ask, and if your brand and the number of questions 351 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:40.200 are at a wonder one ratio, you have a problem. Hmm, what's 352 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.640 happening? I'm not asking enough questions and I'm pushing my brand. You should. 353 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.559 You should literally be looking for and guys again going might give me a 354 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.799 different number, so apologize to this, but you should be in that eight 355 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.319 to nine to one ratio, meaning for every time you mention your brand, 356 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.799 should be asking at least eight questions before you mentioned your brand and start their 357 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:04.119 please. That's such a great heuristic for the likely success of that conversion, 358 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.480 because the more you mention your brand put your creating a brand in pressure that 359 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:11.319 the person goes away and goes I didn't a single question answered. Right, 360 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.640 so you wanted to to walk away exhausted. You want them to go, 361 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.799 Oh my God, I don't think they talked at all, and that's just 362 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.599 human nature. Yep, right, that's just human nature. So another great 363 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.279 thing that I just would point to as well on the way there, Benji 364 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:26.880 is, because that's that's sort of a the crux, right, but it's 365 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:33.319 when folks actually say they want a demo. What are you doing to ensure 366 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.359 that you understand that their context? Yeah, we have these amazing tools. 367 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.119 So there's so much intented out there, but just go pop in Linkedin, 368 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:44.400 go check out Linkedin, and good example is if you have a software that's 369 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.079 coming software byer that's coming through and has certification a competing product, as an 370 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.319 example, that should inform you. Right, if you get a buyer coming 371 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.039 through that's in Rev ops, guess what they bought? Loss of software, 372 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.759 that should inform you. So there are all sorts of ways to look at 373 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:00.759 this, like their profiles. But the other thing you could do is you 374 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:06.480 can start establishing who that likely buyer group is. Right. So that's the 375 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.359 moment we can start to research. Why is that important? My Gosh, 376 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.599 because if you can understand their context a little better before they show up on 377 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.960 that call, your conversion rates got to go up. It's interesting on the 378 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:22.440 expertise and understanding conversation, because I think it's easy to just want to prove 379 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:27.119 expertise right, like that's the depp the typical demo where you're just information heavy. 380 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.640 Look at all that we can do, we are the experts in our 381 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.799 field, and it be. It's a little counterintuitive, but you see the 382 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:38.880 best in class. They know that balance of saying hey, we are experts 383 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:44.039 and the way that we show that we're experts, as by asking highly intelligent 384 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:49.039 questions at the right time that help you diagnosed it yourself and actually coaching. 385 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:53.559 This is something I think of off my dad actually got his doctorate den and 386 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:59.960 did his doctor in Coaching and leadership coaching specifically, and that was a huge 387 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:03.279 part of it. He's like, if you ask the right question, you're 388 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:08.039 actually helping them discover the solution on their own. They're going to just approach 389 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.279 it in a completely different way than feeling like they're drowning and information, and 390 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:17.759 so having that switch and letting that flip and not being so nervous about well, 391 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.119 have we covered everything our product can do for them? But they stumble 392 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.359 into Oh, you can also solve this problem. Yeah, this like the 393 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:29.480 best situation you could be in. And talk about providing great prospect experience, 394 00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.359 it does is often start with that, because that's also, the more questions 395 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.160 you ask, the more they feel the empathy as well, which is what 396 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:37.400 you were talking about earlier. So how these things all start to correlate. 397 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.240 You guys can feel that kind of the momentum that could happen in these conversations, 398 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:47.480 right. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. I love 399 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:51.759 this. I think it's practical in that there's so many systems we already have 400 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.880 in place right that we can just be reevaluating as we go. We can 401 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:56.400 equip our teams to do that as well. Hey, put yourself in the 402 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.160 prospects shows. You could do this in a quick marketing meeting, right, 403 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.200 like, just look at your systems this week. What would you feel like 404 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.200 if you're the prospect and we can start analyze and stuff? Do that in 405 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:07.960 one on ones as well. About anything else you would want to leave us 406 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.240 with here, Doug, as we start to wrap up as far as those 407 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.480 practical house and I always say the mindset. If I'm sure people are sick 408 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:17.680 of hearing me say that, I'm be to be growth, but I will 409 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.519 never stop saying it. What's the shift for us as we leave this this 410 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:25.960 episode? Yeah, so, look, it's going to be easy for us 411 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.680 to go back and to stare at our same sell sports dashboards after this conversation. 412 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.960 It's going to be super easy, right, because that is our context 413 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.319 and everything we just talked about, Benji, is hard, really hard, 414 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.640 right. So here's what I would say. Think about how you can put 415 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:48.440 yourself in a position where you can beat the competition, and right now very 416 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.440 few organizations are thinking about the prospect experience as the way to different Shit. 417 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.519 We are literally, Benjie, we talked about eighty nine percent of people being 418 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.160 satisfied with their lead routing system. Get fifty seven percent of people are sending 419 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.480 to the wrong person. HMM. If you can focus on prospect experience, 420 00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:07.519 conversion rates are going to go up and you're going to win the market. 421 00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.200 So it's worth the pain and I think you're dead on, Benjie. You 422 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.559 can get folks into a room, and this is what I call the friction 423 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.440 momentum conversation, and evaluate each step. You have Google and all the ex 424 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:22.200 data. Check it out. Here it is, and you can evaluate each 425 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.880 step of the buyers journey through the prism of the website, if you will. 426 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.039 You can see your stick points really quickly, right and so what are 427 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.680 they sticking on? What page is that? By the way, you can 428 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.759 take a look at your prospect emails right, lay that journey out and give 429 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.480 it scores. HMM, ABCD. Right, give it scores and if your 430 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:47.799 average score is less than a see time to make the change and go find 431 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:49.559 the D's and the east and the s. So they have ease anymore. 432 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.039 Go find the US in the US and never had ease when I was at 433 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:59.599 school, but maybe eight hundred years old. So we had ease out of 434 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:03.359 here a solid ease student. They're dog. I love it, absolutely love 435 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.240 it. Awesome. Well, thank you for taking time and being here with 436 00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:10.039 us on bdb growth today. For those that want to stay in touch with 437 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:14.039 you, and also anything you guys are doing over at lean data, can 438 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.799 you tell us what the best way to do that is? You get a 439 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:19.160 hold of me. My handle is market advocate. You can check out lean 440 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:23.720 data to lean Datacom or you can listen to the revenue generator podcast, that 441 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:30.559 Rev Gen podcom Bengie's like traveling me on. For sure, privilege and honor 442 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:34.400 and great episode here and I want to say to everyone listening thank you for 443 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.400 checking out this episode. If you haven't followed the show yet on your favorite 444 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:44.599 podcast platform, be sure to do that so you never miss these wonderful conversations 445 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:48.160 we're having. We want to help you continue to innovate, continue to grow, 446 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.680 and so that's it, man. That's what fuels me, that's what 447 00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:53.519 feels these conversations. Head over to linkedin connect with me over there. Would 448 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:57.240 love to chat with you about marketing, business life and keep doing work that 449 00:28:57.319 --> 00:29:14.559 matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. Be Tob growth is 450 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.480 brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish, 451 00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:21.039 we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative brands in the world, 452 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:26.000 and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos, linkedin content, blog posts 453 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:29.559 and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. Want 454 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:38.599 more information, visit Sweet Fish Mediacom