Marketing as Practice, Not Function, with Eric Olson

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.679 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Today 2 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:21.120 I'm joined by Eric Olsen. He's the CMO over at quick base. Eric, 3 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.879 thanks for stopping buy BTB growth. Super excited to be on here. 4 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:28.920 I'm fan of the show. Okay, so we got to give maybe our 5 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:32.920 listeners just some behind the scenes real quick of what it's like to podcast, 6 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:37.119 and I'm going to just give away a question that I posed last time talking 7 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:39.880 to you, because you've had some time to think about and came back with 8 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:44.880 some some great content here. So every person that I chat with do a 9 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.439 pre interview with before they come on to bea be growth. I pose this 10 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:53.719 question of like what's a question that you wish someone would ask you? But 11 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.039 they have it right, like you have this internal knowledge or this stuff that's 12 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.240 kind of been cooking inside, but no one ever is like hey, eric, 13 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.840 what do you think about filling the blank? So I pose that at 14 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:07.280 you. You said, Benji, that's a good question, give me some 15 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.519 time to think, and now we're here and you've actually thought about it. 16 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.519 What came to mind and what's been kind of stirn in you? Yeah, 17 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:17.439 it's great. I think we're going to talk about alignment today across sales, 18 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:19.760 marketing, product and the question that the people don't ask. We talked about 19 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.879 that topic a lot, but I really wish people would ask the question more 20 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.640 of like why does that actually matter and what does it look like? And 21 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.719 I think we're to talk about that today. I think that's that's a really 22 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.599 signing topic and with that they'd like the other the other thing that I that 23 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:38.680 I thought of was that people also don't ask about the ugly behind the scenes 24 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:42.079 work, particularly as a CMO, that you have to do to make the 25 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:45.920 stuff that hits the market happen, and so I'm excited to kind of get 26 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.599 maybe get into a little the ugly today. seriously. So I think it's 27 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:53.200 a typically a how question around alignment, right, but you're going we need 28 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:59.480 to focus on the lie and when you do that it brings different things to 29 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:04.519 light. That's right, exactly. Interesting. Okay, well, we'll head 30 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.239 in that direction here a little bit. But in order to do that, 31 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.879 I know you guys are as an organization, you're centered on this this phrase 32 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:16.000 that is a very, I would say, sexy way of saying we need 33 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:20.879 alignment, which is win together these two words that are like yes, I 34 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:23.319 mean that should be what organizations feel. We want to win together, but 35 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:28.680 easier said than done. Talk a little bit about the three years, Eric, 36 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:32.159 that you've spent at quick base and some of the journey you guys have 37 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:38.319 been on in this need for emphasis right around this unified forward momentum and this 38 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:43.000 wind together piece. Yeah, we win together as one of our core values, 39 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.439 one of our three and I'll say along this journey that was certainly not 40 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.639 the case when I when I joined. You know, one of their one 41 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:52.680 of the first conversations that have is one one of our, is that executives. 42 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:53.719 It's like, well, what do you what do you think marketing needs 43 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:58.560 to do here? And and his response was need to paint the world purple. 44 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:00.240 Our logo is purple at the time and it kind of kind of tells 45 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:04.560 you everything you need to know, maybe about like what the the perception was 46 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:07.199 about sort of what marketing did at the time. Yeah, you know, 47 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.960 maybe arts and crafts. So was but we had a real and it was 48 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.719 interesting because one of the reasons I joined quick faces we had this really unique, 49 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.759 interesting technology. But that's all I half the bout. All Right, 50 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:23.400 great companies have unique, interesting technology that that is that stands out can do 51 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:27.319 something others can't, but they also have a really compelling aligned go to market, 52 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.560 which and they're going to talk about today. So we had very unclear 53 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.120 positioning. Our teams were sideload. Sales and marketing were really at war with 54 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.840 each other because they couldn't couldn't really speak the same same language. So we 55 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.000 lacked alignement right. And so you know, it's ask the you know the 56 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.120 the question earlier that wish you'd asked me is like, you know why it 57 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:50.280 does alignment matter? And my view is there all the data says that to 58 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.560 win today and B tob you have to win a category. Right, and 59 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.719 to win a category you have to because eighty percent of the business goes a 60 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:01.439 categorylier. To win a category you got to be did constantly designing, refining, 61 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:06.680 telling a story and it has to be a really compelling and consistent story 62 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:12.560 across every channel that you have. And that is really hard and that means 63 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:16.120 alignment across sales, marketing, product and and most companies just aren't good at 64 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:20.399 I think the differentiator today whether you can have the best product in the world 65 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:25.720 if you have an aligned go to market. That's how you went. HMM. 66 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:30.879 Okay, the way that I think of this a is now very informed 67 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:35.279 by an analogy that you provided for me. So break this down, because 68 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:39.720 I know you're not a musician, but I actually am. I love playing. 69 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:42.360 I've played in bands before, so this resonates with me. But you 70 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.560 you say that this process is actually a lot like if you were creating a 71 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:47.839 band. That's right. Yeah, I did play the trombone for like a 72 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:53.360 week in my wild I was like the worst ever. So can I tell 73 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:57.639 you I played saxophone in middle school and I was so bad at it that 74 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.480 I acted and pretended like I broke my arm so I could get out of 75 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:02.480 my seventh grade concert. That's great. I should have found that at the 76 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.199 time. We actually let me give you a music examples. Let's stick the 77 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:08.959 music, for example. So there's like one thousand nine hundred and ninety four. 78 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:10.920 I'm I'm at a consum out of fish concert. If you know, 79 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:13.680 you know the band, and like all of a sudden, in the middle 80 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:16.000 of this concert, like they they play like that the simpsons team, the 81 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.959 like dude, do, do, do, do, do, and everyone 82 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:24.639 goes the whole like tenzero. People are like don't. That's alignment, right, 83 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:27.480 like that is like like the band stops, the whole cop, the 84 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.720 whole crowd stops, and those exactly what to do at that specific time. 85 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:33.720 Right. So how do you get there? Right? So I knew we 86 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.560 didn't have alignment and so I thought about it as like, how do I 87 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.319 get there? How do I create a band that plays in the unison, 88 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.199 not just the band but the whole community feels in unison, one part of 89 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.680 one thing. And it occurred to me that there's three steps you have to 90 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.560 go through. Right. So, step one, you really need to design 91 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:53.040 what type of band you want to be. Doing to be a jam band 92 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.839 like fish, or do you want to be like speed metal, like Pantera? 93 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:59.879 Those are very different answers, right, okay, having your band and 94 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:01.920 music you play, the kind of culture that you and your band your community 95 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.720 out. Step two, you'd have to play sheet music together, right. 96 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:10.480 It can't be, you know, six people playing six different songs, right, 97 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:14.240 that's just no crazy noise. That wouldn't makes no sense. That, 98 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.040 I think. That's when a lot of the BB marketers get stuck. Stay. 99 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:20.160 Stage three is the fun stuff we love to talk about in these podcasts, 100 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:23.480 right, like. Then you can go play Improv like you can do 101 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.000 the twenty minute jam and everyone knows kind of where we're going, going together. 102 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.759 That's the fun stuff to talk about. But we, you know, 103 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.279 we had to go through those phases as we had to define what kind of 104 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.839 band we are, had to play sheet music together and then free ourselves to 105 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:40.439 do the creative stuff. We could take time and go through all three but 106 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.879 honestly, today what we're going to do is we're just going to go with 107 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.000 right into that phase, to the messy middle. That's where so much of 108 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:50.560 the work has to be done. It's fun to go like what kind of 109 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:53.720 band are we in? It's well, it's all what are you think? 110 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:57.399 Right, like they're just writing down ideas. It's fun once you are all 111 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:00.720 on the same page and you're, you know, playing shows. But that 112 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:02.920 middle piece where it's like, okay, are we doing this in unison, 113 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:06.680 like how do we actually all play the same sheet music? Do we drive? 114 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:12.560 Like? That is where so much in business is one and lost. 115 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.040 If we're creating that positive momentum. So what do you see as the most 116 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:21.279 vital to address? Like the first thing in order to create that type of 117 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:27.160 cohesion what? What did you guys really prioritize? Yeah, well, I 118 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.399 mean first off you kind of can't skip phase one. So it's a little 119 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:32.000 bit about that too, because it's part. It's part of it, right, 120 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.759 because I think as great leaders we really create three things. Create clear 121 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:43.759 culture, clear strategy and clear sort of interlocking operational model, right, and 122 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.160 they all have to be super clear. And so to my point earlier about 123 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:48.759 like the ugly stuff that has to happen behind the scenes, one of the 124 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:54.000 first meetings we had when our new CEO came on board was we sat in 125 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.720 a room for a day and talked about what is our culture, right, 126 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:01.600 because, and to the beginning of the comment you made like that, one 127 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:03.800 of our core tenets of our culture is win together. If you don't have 128 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:09.279 a win together culture, you don't know who you are as a company. 129 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:11.240 Then you don't know how to work together, you don't know how what behaviors 130 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.720 you expect of each other, and so whether win together is a value or 131 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.120 not, how we behave had to be clear right. That that was that 132 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.360 was job number number one, John. Number two is just a focus strategy. 133 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:26.279 We are coming from sort of a I've done this over and over again 134 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:31.399 a companies where you come into a company that's a great sort of horizontal technology 135 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.720 sort of strategy, but you need unified focus, right, and so we 136 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.159 as a company, not just marketing, we as a company, needed to 137 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.879 create focus strategy on where we do, where we want to win, what 138 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.639 market do we want to win? And then you can get to like two 139 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.679 operations, which is, how do we create an operating model where we set 140 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.559 set goals that align with the markets we want to men, where we have 141 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.120 a cadence that works alongside those, that brings our teams together. So No, 142 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:03.840 we're not operating as sales marketing product. We have we have operations that 143 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.159 bring us together. So are planning together, sending goals together, celebrate. 144 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.200 So the thing that came to my mind is you might not have had the 145 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:15.799 pithy statement win together, and you were alluding to you know, there was 146 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:18.559 some silo things happening, there was some competition happening, but I'd say from 147 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:22.720 most organizations, most marketing leaders listening to this, they're going, okay, 148 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:30.000 our team wants to be aligned, we have goals that kind of can drive. 149 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.279 It's not like people are picking to not win together. It kind of 150 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.799 happens because maybe it hasn't been talked about or there's you know, there's outside 151 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.480 factors, because you haven't put a line in the sand and said, okay, 152 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:46.720 we're going in this direction and we're going together. We're defining it right. 153 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:50.799 But talk about some of that, like winning together, what that actually 154 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.240 meant once you defined it, like what did it begin to change and shift? 155 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:01.559 Yeah, so I'll give an example of that. So a lot of 156 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.240 companies I've been in if had goals like we're going to go when new logos, 157 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.080 right, like that, that's a goal. We're going to do that. 158 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.440 Growth, very growth, or end and goals, and those are fine, 159 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.279 like those are important to know what those are at any given time. 160 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.919 But then it becomes okay, was marketing do to do that? What a 161 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.960 sales to me and goes right back to the functional right, and that's that's 162 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:20.480 I've been in companies where that than that look and it's it can work. 163 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.919 But when we look at what we're doing this year, one of our top 164 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:30.960 objectives is all about going and providing more value for a few of these key 165 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.480 market segments where we do bust and for us, like what we help companies 166 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.840 do is see, connect and control complex projects. I reshape our world, 167 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:43.200 and so that puts us in industries like construction, industrial manufacturing and so what 168 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.519 the difference is there, though? It's not just hey, go get bookings 169 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:50.639 and it's in these segments. It means the product roadmap lines up to delivering 170 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.799 to that. It means that when people are on boarded in our company, 171 00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:00.200 they're learning about that and why that's important and how they can contribute. So 172 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:05.879 it is it starts that planning exercise of saying the plan is actually creating joint 173 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:13.080 focus that's outwardly focused and pulls us together, and then it is aligning all 174 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.360 of the other practices that we do to that. I think the way you 175 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:20.200 put it before too, was like this idea that marketing is a practice, 176 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.080 not a function. Break that down a little bit, because I think it's 177 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.440 worth going there now it feels like it fit. That's right and for and 178 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:33.639 for anyone who's who's on here that sort of think its fires to be a 179 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.320 CMO. I think this one of the more important concepts to really internalize right 180 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.440 is that if you want to be a marketing executive now, you have to 181 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:46.360 think marketing as something that the company does not that marketing does in a function. 182 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:48.600 Back to that example I was just giving, I you know, as 183 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.879 an executive, I need to work with my fellow executives to set the course 184 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.000 of you know, who are called like are what are our core values are? 185 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:00.159 What the the plan is for the company to go? What markets do 186 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:03.399 we want to win and how we going to win? What's our positioning? 187 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.440 And then that needs to because that needs to flow down through every single function, 188 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.720 to be alligned to line back to that. And so for me as 189 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:16.600 a CMO, I think I'm seld myself as an executive first and a runner, 190 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.679 someone who runs marketing second. And so then marketing becomes something that we 191 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:28.000 use a company do. And Yeah, marketing certainly the function supports. Yep, 192 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.279 I want to touch on something you had said before, this idea that 193 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.360 like, okay, you might have some goals and then when it comes back 194 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.960 to this is where a lot of us are, where in organizations like this, 195 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.879 it's like, okay, here's your mqls, here's your sqls. It 196 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:45.919 starts to kind of Siphon back out into these different groups. Right. So 197 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:50.279 in practice, I know it's a big deal for you guys that marketing owns 198 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:56.080 pipeline, no matter where it comes from. It becomes this shift in mindset 199 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.240 saying like we're not again, if we're going to win together, that means 200 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.639 we're not going to like chase our number and then say hey, see, 201 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.200 we did our deal and like wash our hands of it. Right. How 202 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:07.559 what was that shift like, because it hasn't always been that way, and 203 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.519 what does that mean inside your organization that marketing is going to own pipeline no 204 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:16.039 matter where it comes from? Yeah, and this another big belief for me 205 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.080 is that that every CMO really should should think about this. And it's not 206 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.159 just pipeline generation. I look at his pipeline performance. Are we generating it? 207 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:28.159 Are we moving it through and what that actually looks like is, you 208 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:30.799 know, I'm the one who's standing up in the board talking came about pipeline 209 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:35.080 performance. You know, I'm the one that's at that's running a cadence month 210 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:39.480 to month, quarter to quarter with cross functional sales leadership, where we're looking 211 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:43.399 at sort of what's working what's not in together kind of set in kind of 212 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.679 the corrective, the corrected actions we want to take. And it it's important 213 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.679 because we've all been in those marketing organizations, where you get into a meeting 214 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.039 on pipeline and you look at, you know, that's just take metrics for 215 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.519 a second and attribution, which I think is one of the you know it's 216 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.559 important, but it's one of the things that trips us up the most, 217 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.360 because you get in there and you look at sales generated and marketing generated, 218 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.960 SDR generated, and immediately you get in this mindset of having to justify performance 219 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.799 versus being in a mindset of learning and improving every day. And so if 220 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.879 the CMOS coming in and saying a holistically, we I own pipeline, we 221 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:22.440 own pipeline, is marketing it, immediately break starts to break down those barriers 222 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.720 and then in practice you're bringing people together and you're looking at pipeline performance against 223 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.159 the goals that you have and how you thought you were going to get to 224 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:33.039 those goals, versus trying to look at the different functions and what they are, 225 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.039 what they're creating separately. Okay, so if we're operating from this wind 226 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:43.519 together mentality, let's talk about how that impacts our men. Are Messaging, 227 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.679 are unified messaging, and then our goals. Let's take both of those as 228 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:52.919 separate categories for a second and breakdown how it's changed your messaging specifically. Yeah, 229 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:54.759 so it's so one of the things I think you need to do to 230 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:01.759 win together is you need to have on score board. Right. So told 231 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.200 myself on that using sports metaphors anymore, but because a lot of I haven't 232 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:09.080 found a better one for which is, you know, you need to care 233 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.600 more about what's on the scoreboard than your personal stats. Right. It doesn't 234 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.600 matter that my pass accuracy was ninety seven percent if we lost the game. 235 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.279 And so what that means is like in sports, that's easy. I got 236 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.120 a scoreboard. I know I need to beat the other team, right, 237 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.039 but for us as a company and marketers, you have thousands of metrics you 238 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.360 could you could look at. And so how that win together has started to 239 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.440 change. That is that, you know, we're going out and saying we're 240 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:39.000 delivering a message to a market and we're going to measure our success by, 241 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.039 you know, how much collectively we're sort of driving and in whatever it is, 242 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.679 wherever we are in the process, pipeline and bookings, to got to 243 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.240 get to that, right. And so, to my example earlier, we're 244 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.080 going to go in in this this sort of set of markets we call the 245 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.919 built environment, and so that says across sales, marketing product our success of 246 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.519 the initiatives tied to that is is based on how we perform in those things, 247 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.919 and we can have metrics underneath their sales metrics and marketing metrics, but 248 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:10.519 those become learning metrics versus scoreboard metrics, and so it's your point on goals 249 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.120 like that's the that's the big change. Is that we're saying are we purse 250 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.799 delivering a message that persuades an audience to engage, to get value from our 251 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.960 platform? We're measuring it by a couple of kind of key indicators, though, 252 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.320 and everything else is just helping us learn. And so to the same 253 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.159 thing I was talking about on the sales versus marketing generate pipeline, you want 254 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.600 to get people out of the mindset of trying to justify that they're performing based 255 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:40.080 on metrics that are really about helping us learn. Hmm Okay, so imagine 256 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.519 you know you're a member of the sales team, and how do you see 257 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:51.240 it changing the way that they've thought about marketing, like how it has this 258 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:56.679 wind together approach shifted their mentality because we've taken, you know, a pretty 259 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.639 marketing centric like this is. You know, we're looking at it from that 260 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.919 angle, but I'd love to, like look from the other side. Yeah, 261 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:04.240 I think it's still we're still in the journey. To be clear, 262 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.920 we have not. I'm not the genius who is cracked all of this. 263 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.720 I totally don't. I don't know who is, but I'd like to meet 264 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:11.960 that first. I've been worried if you thought you had it figured out. 265 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.000 So it depends on the salesers. But I will tell you what good looks 266 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.039 like, is that when sellers are bringing us feedback on Hey, like, 267 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.359 I tried this message with this audience and here's what I heard. Right like 268 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:30.799 and because it's helping us to get better. It's not what you get out 269 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.119 of as some of the things will. Marketing gave us this. It did. 270 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.359 I don't believe in it. I'm going to do this right. What 271 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.880 you get into is together, we're committed to doing this program that's based on 272 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.640 going after whatever persona or a market, and the interaction with sales when that 273 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.880 works, is about here's what I'm learning, here's what I think could work 274 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.039 better, and so we're always iterating on that. Versus kind of feeling like 275 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:59.559 you know what marketing is doing, what sales is doing that and everyone try 276 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.119 to prove that they know their ways better. All right, so let's talk 277 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.319 about some of the rhythms that you guys have created to foster this type of 278 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:12.559 culture, because having some sort of like built in, whether it's just meetings 279 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:17.839 or anything you guys do that you're going these are ways that we call ourselves 280 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.039 back to this wind together. Obviously you're going to change what you're measuring, 281 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:23.480 some of the goals, but also, I'm sure there's some rhythms that you've 282 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.920 put in place that you find it to really help foster this. Yeah, 283 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.039 and on Rhythms, I think we're probably pretty similar to other folks where it's, 284 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.640 you know, every quarter we're taken this strategic view. We have kind 285 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.200 of a monthly pipeline kidence. That I think is fairly unique. Rest senior 286 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.200 sales leaders and myself were looking at at pipeline, and then we've got, 287 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.920 you know, we've got a two week sprint in marketing where we're actually look 288 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.960 learning together. Is kind of the point of that where we're similar to product, 289 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.039 where it's here's what we shipped here's what we saw, here's what we 290 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:55.160 learn and here is how we're going to we're going to iterate. I would 291 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.519 say that, you know, the one thing across all of those is, 292 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:03.759 as a leader, finding and continuing to reward activities that show what happens when 293 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:08.200 teams come together right. And so you know, other part we have is 294 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.440 the our marketing town hall and Company Town Hall. We have one one a 295 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.240 month. Town halls can be pretty boring sometimes, but where we try to 296 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.359 do is to some of the points I was making earlier, like we have 297 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:25.200 key strategic themes in the company that are uniting us and every town hall we're 298 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:30.200 going back and celebrating the winds on those things right, because we got I 299 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.799 think so sometimes as marketers to we think a lot about marketing to our customers 300 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.039 and spent a lot of time on that, rightfully, so we don't maybe 301 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.599 some enough time think about marketing internally. Right. And so to the question 302 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.920 on sellers, to Brant, sellers follow success right. And so you know, 303 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.680 one thing we'll do in those cadences, whether it's the marketing sprint, 304 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:56.039 Review Demo or a town hall, is highlights what good looks like with success. 305 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.240 So we just had a deal with. They came across this week. 306 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.599 We're we're going to hold up in that in the marketing town hall, interview 307 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.759 the seller about what worked, how they got there, because it fully showed 308 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.480 how marketing, sales and our community came together to make that happen. And 309 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:15.119 so it is about find those examples of what worked and just keep hammering them 310 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:17.720 and then use them to learn and get better. Okay, I want to 311 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:19.519 go down a rabbit trailer with you just for a second before we start to 312 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.640 wrap this thing up. But when you're talking about internal marketing, getting those 313 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.960 stories, sharing those clearly that's key to fostering that type of a line and 314 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:33.519 getting people internally on the same page excited. So is that someone's like role 315 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.920 that you've developed over time? Is Everyone looking for those stories? WHO's owning 316 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.279 that? It's got to be everyone. Yeah, I said so it is. 317 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:42.599 There's not. That's a great idea. Like it would be cool if 318 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.960 there was an internal marketing person. I think that'd be great. I think 319 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.559 certainly that falls into the enablement function we created, go to market enablement function. 320 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:53.519 That kind of plays plays across. But I do think everyone needs to 321 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.960 be thinking that because it's not just the big things. It is like at 322 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:03.000 every level. We want people continue to show the success right and it's it 323 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.400 couldn't be team to team. They're certain teams are further ahead than others and 324 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:08.799 their confidence and belief, and so we say hey, one of our teams 325 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.039 isn't quite there, and so we're going to bring in at a series of 326 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:17.559 speakers to show them what we're doing. It's also not intern just internal. 327 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.640 Actually did a great thing where we did a series of customer fireside chats, 328 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:26.720 right because we we needed our sellers in particular to believe in these markets that 329 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.319 were saying focus your effort here and your win, and so we had fairly 330 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.359 skeptical sellers on the team. You know, we all know those people and 331 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.640 get think of them in our head. Actually sit down and do an interview 332 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.759 series is like one and month with a customer on you know why quickly. 333 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.680 This is the unique fit for them and the projects that they have, and 334 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:52.559 that was massively successful. So as a program well, I want to end 335 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.759 this conversation where we started it and I'm going to pose the question at you 336 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.039 that you wish someone would ask you, which is why alignment matters. And 337 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.599 I want you to take it home, just talking to the leaders that are 338 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.119 listening to this, to kind of leave us with a challenge around why alignment 339 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:14.039 matters. Yeah, so a line of matters because to win today you need 340 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.039 a very clear, simple story. The world's too complex, it's movement too 341 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.839 fast, right, and you need a simple story told through every channel to 342 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.960 do it. To do that, what a m I challenged every leader out 343 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:26.240 there is to do the hard work that no one wants to do right. 344 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.119 Go back and make sure your culture is clear, your strategy is focused on 345 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.119 a line top the bottom. You push your executive team to make sure that 346 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:38.160 that is that is truly real, and spend the time on your operations, 347 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:44.960 like build the internal operations that make the external creative stuff possible. Fantastic, 348 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.440 Eric, thanks for being here, man, thanks for breaking this down for 349 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.799 us. I know those I wrote down quite a few notes that, to 350 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.160 me, alignment is I don't know if it's just the nerdy side me, 351 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.440 but that matters just so much to me that the team feels aligned, that 352 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:04.799 we feel like we're all headed in the same direction, and and then externally, 353 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.440 like the effect that that has. I don't think can be overstated, 354 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:12.200 because when we know who we are internally, it flows into everything we do 355 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:17.519 as far as messaging and out like everything out there. So thanks for talking 356 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:19.359 about the importance there. For people that want to stay connected with you and 357 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.359 what quick bass is doing, just tell us where we can connect and and 358 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:27.319 stay uptodate. Yeah, hit me up on linkedin or email me at eels 359 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:32.799 in a quick bascom and I'd love to connect. Love connecting with marketing community 360 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:36.839 and enjoy talking to do all time. That fantastic. Well, for our 361 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:41.559 listeners, if you've yet to follow this show on whatever your favorite podcast player 362 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.160 is, we'd encourage you to do that so you never miss an episode. 363 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.319 We're just trying to help you fuel your innovation, your growth, your development. 364 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.599 So you can do that and you can talk to me over on Linkedin 365 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:56.240 as well. Always interested in chatting with our listeners talking about marketing, business 366 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:59.920 or life, and you can just search Benjie Block to find me on Linkedin. 367 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.559 So, Eric, thanks so much for stopping by B to be growth 368 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:22.039 today. Man, loved it. Thank you.