#Leadership 4: The Who What Where and How of Coaching Front line Sales Managers w/ Paul Ironside

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.040 There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers 2 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:09.189 to pay attention to your brand? Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients 3 00:00:09.429 --> 00:00:18.269 to be guests on your show. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're 4 00:00:18.350 --> 00:00:23.019 listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've 5 00:00:23.059 --> 00:00:26.699 interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, 6 00:00:27.019 --> 00:00:31.140 but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the 7 00:00:31.219 --> 00:00:35.810 bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests 8 00:00:35.850 --> 00:00:40.210 are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're 9 00:00:40.250 --> 00:00:44.810 experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies in the world. 10 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:48.289 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a 11 00:00:48.450 --> 00:00:52.000 podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the CO hosts of 12 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:56.280 this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories 13 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:59.840 from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs 14 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:03.280 of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, 15 00:01:03.909 --> 00:01:12.870 maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to BTB growth. I 16 00:01:12.989 --> 00:01:18.469 am your host for today's episode, Nikki Ivy with sweetfish media. Guys up 17 00:01:18.510 --> 00:01:23.379 that with me today, Paul Ironside, who is founder and CEO of commercial 18 00:01:23.540 --> 00:01:26.019 tribe paw. How you doing to day, King, I'm fine. Thanks, 19 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:29.500 thanks for having me on the show. Yeah, I'm too. We're 20 00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:33.049 decited. So the title that I'm started, the topic that we're going to 21 00:01:33.090 --> 00:01:34.849 be discussed today is one very close to my heart. I, like you, 22 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:38.250 had to put up line, having spent some time out here in the 23 00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:46.170 start up street and very acquainted when I've seen up close the importance of coaching 24 00:01:46.409 --> 00:01:49.640 and having a culture of coaching. But you were going to give us the 25 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:57.319 WHO, where, what and how of coaching frontline sales management. But before 26 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.879 we get into all of that, Paul, I would love it if you 27 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:02.909 would just give us, you know, a little bit of background on yourself 28 00:02:02.950 --> 00:02:06.430 and what you want the folks a commercial trib have been up to these days. 29 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:07.590 Yeah, sure, sure, sure, so, Nicki again thanks for 30 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:10.669 the time consideration here this afternoon. But are you are definitely talking to a 31 00:02:10.750 --> 00:02:15.780 sales manager? So yes, the title the bottom of my card says CEO 32 00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:20.500 and founder of commercial tribe, which is software company. I was absolutely born 33 00:02:20.780 --> 00:02:27.659 in the function of sales at a company called Gartner as an individual contributor turn 34 00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:30.729 sales manager. So kind of like many sales managers, we start off in 35 00:02:30.770 --> 00:02:36.289 this individual role, we perform, we get elevated in these managerial roles and 36 00:02:36.330 --> 00:02:38.449 kind of Toada, off we go. So it's there for about eight years. 37 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:44.210 I left and went to an organization based in Washington DC called the corporate 38 00:02:44.289 --> 00:02:47.840 executive board, or CEB, and for many of your listeners that have actually 39 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:53.199 read and followed the Challenger sale, it is home to the Challenger Sale. 40 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.199 But I was there for almost a decade. Last three years I ran to 41 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.750 sales order position. I was a direct word to the chair and to CEO, 42 00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:04.870 one of the kind of ten executive team members running the organization. Roughly 43 00:03:04.949 --> 00:03:08.870 roughly half a billion dollars and total top line sales probably traded company. Niki 44 00:03:08.909 --> 00:03:12.979 gets along winding way of saying I think the day you are definitely talking to 45 00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:15.819 to a sales manager. So hopefully it's sixty seconds or less. That's that's 46 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:21.979 mean and enough. Shall I love it. Are My faith because they've been 47 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:27.139 the folks for better or for worse, who have had the biggest impact on 48 00:03:27.689 --> 00:03:30.330 what I've learned as an individual contributor on a sales for now, whether that 49 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:36.449 would as an FCR and my first, you know, fat startup role, 50 00:03:36.729 --> 00:03:39.969 or as an ae who is maybe in that role, because I thought that 51 00:03:40.090 --> 00:03:44.800 that's the next thing. You do have the year and FCR and supposed to 52 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.159 do this. Well, whatever. You know, but these are the folks 53 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.560 who I was able to through their they're miss a, importantly, and through 54 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.310 the hardest more more, more often than not, and then a lot from 55 00:03:57.389 --> 00:04:03.229 their great so they they tend to be some rows of really any organization, 56 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:06.909 to certainly of the failed organization. So I'm happy to get this in for 57 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:11.979 me and help tell me before we get into the actual you know who, 58 00:04:12.099 --> 00:04:15.339 what I learing, how of this thing. Talk to me a little bit 59 00:04:15.379 --> 00:04:20.740 more about why. Why you think this is why so many folks get it 60 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:25.449 wrong. Yeah, sure, I mean I think as sales leaders and leaders 61 00:04:25.529 --> 00:04:30.970 inside organizations, we continue to make the mistake of believing that the individual contributors 62 00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:35.889 skill set actually translates into an effective manager. And when you talk about it, 63 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:40.360 you Goin to step back and think about it. Everything associated the individual 64 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.360 and is an individual territory. It's an individual role as an individual, complan 65 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.720 individual, individual individual on day one, and then we elevate them into a 66 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:55.350 team roll, a managerial role. And while there's certainly similarities in terms of 67 00:04:55.470 --> 00:04:59.589 you know, you're selling, the nature of the roles arguably couldn't be more 68 00:04:59.709 --> 00:05:04.949 different and we don't really provide those managers a framework to be successful in the 69 00:05:04.990 --> 00:05:08.220 role. Rather, what we do is we hoping, we pray, we 70 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:12.540 cross our fingers to say everything that you were doing to become a rock star 71 00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:17.660 individual seller, we hope translates over into kind of rubbing off on you are 72 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:21.769 on your sales executives and the right stuff. Right, you can do it, 73 00:05:23.370 --> 00:05:30.449 push yourself. Yeah, so when that doesn't work out. And then 74 00:05:30.449 --> 00:05:35.040 I was from to a woman on the show a few episodes back about some 75 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:40.680 examples that we see in sports, right an other areas of life where we've 76 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.399 seen this not pan out. Right, you taken it a star, a 77 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:48.680 hall of fame, once in a lifetime talent, right in a sporting environment 78 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:53.750 and the sporting context and try and say, Hey, let's let that person 79 00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:56.750 be a coacher or GM of a team. Let's talk about how many time 80 00:05:56.790 --> 00:06:00.069 that's worked out. Not Very Open. So we've seen we see them that 81 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.180 work out. And why? Is what you're just telling us as because we 82 00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:09.579 keep making this, this same mistake. So where do we begin? Right 83 00:06:09.740 --> 00:06:13.259 in the WHO? What? When, where and how? When you're trying 84 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:18.129 to write this ship, where should we first focus our attention trying to coach 85 00:06:18.170 --> 00:06:24.089 up new sales management? Sure, sure, the very first place it's got 86 00:06:24.129 --> 00:06:28.529 to start is actually at the top. You've got to have senior sales leaders, 87 00:06:28.649 --> 00:06:31.959 so chief revenue officer, chief sales officer, that he or she has 88 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:36.199 got to make a declaration that they want to solve this problem. If in 89 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:42.519 fact, they're not aligned around some type of sales management efficacy program it will 90 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.399 not get under way inside in order. So kind of thing number one, 91 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:48.829 and then thing number two. Like everything that we do, it needs a 92 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:54.470 frame. More so if you think about frameworks, we use frameworks when, 93 00:06:54.589 --> 00:06:59.310 to use your sports metaphor, there's an offensive playbook that governs the way that 94 00:06:59.350 --> 00:07:02.779 an offensive football is going to march down the field. Same Way there's a 95 00:07:02.939 --> 00:07:09.180 defensive Schema. Those are frameworks. Well, in selling we use sales methodologies 96 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:13.459 as a way in which to understand where you are in the sales process. 97 00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:17.449 Well, it's not too dissimilar with with regards to sales management. What type 98 00:07:17.449 --> 00:07:24.689 of a sales management framework that helped to govern certain managerial events such as the 99 00:07:24.810 --> 00:07:29.730 pipeline review, the forecast review, you the Oneonone, the what we call 100 00:07:29.889 --> 00:07:34.319 joint traveling or call partnering, when your manager is partnering with Their Individual Team 101 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:41.000 members on live sales interactions. So those types of frameworks are where we begin 102 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:46.750 to lean into try and provide organizations help and assistance with regards to improving the 103 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:49.910 efficacy of their managers. What I'm curious about, what I really want to 104 00:07:49.949 --> 00:07:55.189 hear your your input on here, is when, when that should start? 105 00:07:55.269 --> 00:07:59.420 Right? So you've just told us what the first focus should be, but 106 00:07:59.899 --> 00:08:03.660 it kind of feels like one of the person's already been promoted into that role 107 00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:09.139 and there are, you know, presented with this re goals and this quota 108 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:11.379 and these things in you know, this pressure to succeed or else, you 109 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:16.490 know, somebody's coming for your seat. At What Point Do we start coaching 110 00:08:16.610 --> 00:08:22.290 folks up into this role and and spending that time with them? Yeah, 111 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:24.810 sure, so, in our opinion, you know, you can't start early 112 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.759 enough and most organizations, you know, no one's going to say no, 113 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.039 I don't want to invest in my sales managers to create kind of this force 114 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.679 multiplier of that nobody says no to. That question is is what type of 115 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:43.230 resource will they put behind it? And most of the organizations, these kind 116 00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:48.029 of larger, more mature organizations, are tend to be our customers and they 117 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:54.029 are implementing its some degree, some type of an efficacy program and we're on 118 00:08:54.149 --> 00:08:56.820 going to answer your question is, is you know whether you have a program 119 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:01.940 or you're looking to implement a program? My advice is start to invest in 120 00:09:03.539 --> 00:09:07.539 those individuals that can have a greater impact on your individual contributors and your team 121 00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:11.129 members, the force multiplier sales managers, and what will happen is you'll start 122 00:09:11.210 --> 00:09:18.090 to identify those as individual contributors that truly have the interest to become a sales 123 00:09:18.129 --> 00:09:22.649 manager and as they're coming into the role, we can start to shape, 124 00:09:22.809 --> 00:09:26.399 mold, curate, if you will, the next generation of leaders inside the 125 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:30.200 organization right because it's like, look, a lot of the Kpis like do, 126 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.039 and I talked about offline at the top of this conversation, that get 127 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.240 folks into these roles are individual contributor capis right. So that's all we've measured 128 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.070 up until the point that they get the role. So wondering down, like 129 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:46.789 you said, that built into these efficacy programs, is how to define what 130 00:09:46.990 --> 00:09:54.899 these other KPIS are to get more a better fit into those roles outside of 131 00:09:54.379 --> 00:09:58.539 you know, did the where they were they rock stars? Right, yeah, 132 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:01.500 exactly right, E. exactly right. And so we have come up 133 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:05.220 with a number of different indices to try and measure the the performance of a 134 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:09.129 sales manager. The easy ones that we go to is just persent to plan. 135 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:13.450 Did you or did you not hit your number? And Amen, we're 136 00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:16.450 all accustomed to that and it's right. I mean, we're in this job 137 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.960 to engineer to goal, but just looking at a manager's ability to hit their 138 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.919 team goal is not the most accurate indication on whether or not they're an effective 139 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.440 manager. And my point being is more often than not on that team they 140 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:37.870 have two or three rock stars that are carrying the weight of the entire team. 141 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:39.669 In other words, you've got two or three that are a hundred and 142 00:10:39.750 --> 00:10:43.190 fifty, two hundred percent of plan, and you've got four or five that 143 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:46.990 are at fifteen percent of plan and that's what we see. And so the 144 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.539 better metric and not the end all being metric, but a simple metric. 145 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:56.980 Look at efficacy of sales managers. are percent of reps that make plan per 146 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.860 manager? Right, right, no, that bit. That's definitely it. 147 00:11:01.059 --> 00:11:05.330 And so once you get to the right person in the role, you figured 148 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:09.850 out how to look for that early on and where to begin. Talk about 149 00:11:09.330 --> 00:11:13.970 the next dimension of what we're they need to focus on. What do we 150 00:11:13.009 --> 00:11:20.360 start with? We start off with the what frameworks, the frameworks themselves. 151 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:22.320 Right. So we actually said, yes, we're actually going to implement an 152 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.320 e efficacy program there are these different dimensions of a frontlind sales manager job. 153 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.279 We ask them to do pythione reviews, forecast reviews, one on once, 154 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:37.669 go out into the field and either joint travel with them in terms of one 155 00:11:37.830 --> 00:11:41.350 on one live sales calls with the reps or get on the telephone with them. 156 00:11:41.990 --> 00:11:46.580 Our recommendation is start with the observation, start with the live sales call 157 00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:54.379 or the called partnering, and we build frameworks to allow managers to assess the 158 00:11:54.539 --> 00:12:01.169 efficacy of their individual contributors conducting those calls. Let me give you a sports 159 00:12:01.250 --> 00:12:05.570 metaphor example. In other words, there's a lot of things that happen. 160 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.730 I mean, he's a golf metaphor, so just bear with me here for 161 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:11.129 a minute. But if in fact you're a golfing coach, you could watch 162 00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:15.879 and observe your golfer on many different dimensions, coming off the tea, in 163 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.600 the middle of the fairway, in and around the Greens, Chipping and putting. 164 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:26.320 What we suggest is actually observe your sales executives on sales calls and we 165 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.429 give them a framework for what to look for when they are teeing off. 166 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.190 What are the four or five basic behaviors that they need to be looking for 167 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:43.149 on whether or not their sales executive is actually modeling the right characteristics to advance 168 00:12:43.269 --> 00:12:46.659 the sales cycle from stage one to stage two right, right beyond, just 169 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:52.100 like did they book the Demo or you know I'm saying right that beyond those 170 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:56.460 things, you're exactly right. And so some of those behaviors, is an 171 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:01.769 example, are things such as did the individual contributor seller set an effective intro 172 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:07.730 and agenda? Did they tell a compelling story? Did they identify a key 173 00:13:07.809 --> 00:13:13.440 issue that's worth solving? Did they align a relevant use case? Did they 174 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:20.120 qualify closed next steps? Those are five basic generic behaviors that if a sales 175 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:22.120 manager was going out on a sales call to a watch an early stage, 176 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.669 what we call sometimes the discovery meeting, and a stage. If they execute 177 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:31.429 to a high standard the individual contributor on those behaviors, they then much higher 178 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:37.870 probability of advancing the meeting. If I said it differently real quick, if 179 00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:41.620 this seller didn't set an agenda, in other words they started talking, if 180 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:43.379 we were compelling, it is it I have my company ads are right, 181 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:46.980 says a, B and c. If they didn't get to an issue that 182 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:50.899 your prospect cared about, you can now begin to see that this sales like 183 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.659 a wouldn't advance. Right, right. I Love I love this, this 184 00:13:54.980 --> 00:13:56.690 idea of did they tell a compelling story? I think a lot of the 185 00:13:56.809 --> 00:14:01.610 time, you know, it turns up out being more like did they effectively 186 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:05.370 deliver the script? The most of the folks that I work with and these 187 00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:13.120 startup streets were proscript. I have to appro script. Myself Actually proscript too. 188 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.960 I'm pro script because I again I think you need a framework anyway for 189 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.440 you to map you need to know who you're going to the let's thinking you 190 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.789 have to do while you're talking, the more you can actually be listening while 191 00:14:24.789 --> 00:14:26.509 the other person is talking. So I get it. But when we get 192 00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:33.429 to well, we get too wrapped up in the script itself. We ad 193 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.070 sales people, not the leadership. I think leadership. We get to sand 194 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:39.700 the same as a tool. Yeah, but when new sales people get too 195 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:43.259 wrapped up in, you know, the script itself and how whether that they 196 00:14:43.299 --> 00:14:46.379 found with the person, Mixon that's delivering it, the less they understand that 197 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:50.139 really the heart of his are you telling a compelling story? So they go 198 00:14:50.299 --> 00:14:52.460 from, you know, most of us, if we go on an interview, 199 00:14:52.460 --> 00:14:56.529 to being account ebecuative. For Right, you've had to do a mock 200 00:14:56.850 --> 00:15:01.370 and mock discovery whatever. I'm not cold call in a lot of cases. 201 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:05.370 And those element they're asking for it in that situation. Right. That this 202 00:15:05.529 --> 00:15:07.600 the leadership is looking for there, because there is no script at that point 203 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.440 that you hadn't taught you it yet. So all they can look at is 204 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.919 your natural ability or your learn skillful ability, or ever you believe it's the 205 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.399 case, whichever of those that you demonstrate when you're telling a compelling stories, 206 00:15:20.429 --> 00:15:24.950 but then they don't often go back to that. It's what takes over for 207 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:28.309 that is then how well the person has learned the script, versus Am I 208 00:15:28.429 --> 00:15:31.990 coaching them on telling a compelling story. So I love that element of I 209 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:35.070 don't know if we're actually giving people to who, what we're when and why 210 00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:37.620 is, in the very nasty way that I've planned it to you. When 211 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:43.340 you do all of this stuff you did, you directly have it, and 212 00:15:43.659 --> 00:15:46.179 what we're after there is the how. So, no doubt about it, 213 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.980 we can help you understand who to coach, what to coach, where to 214 00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:54.289 coach, and then these frameworks that we've provide also give you some orientation around 215 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:56.529 how to do it. And so it's not buy aary. Did you or 216 00:15:56.570 --> 00:16:00.850 did you not tell a story? It's to the degree in which you were 217 00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.799 effective. And so with the framework that we provide, we give you a 218 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:10.039 pretty simple guideline that says, Hey, if in fact you're not modeling storytelling 219 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.360 to a high standard, it's going to look and sound like this, versus 220 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:15.879 you are modeling it to a high standard, it's going to look and sound 221 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.909 like like that, and it's you I'm not explaining it all that well, 222 00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:22.830 but hopefully you could begin to see it's a five point like her scale, 223 00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:26.190 if I can use that term, aletic rubric. But I don't want to 224 00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:32.549 confuse our listeners because it's not important. Behind you know how we come in 225 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:36.379 and design these things to make sure they're in the workflow of a salesmanager, 226 00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:40.460 that they're not struggling with trying to understand what these be haviors are or what 227 00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:45.460 the scale looks like and know it's in their workflow, it's in their vocabulary, 228 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:49.049 which is yes, we're putting names to these things, we're defining these 229 00:16:49.129 --> 00:16:52.730 things because a lot of the time, like when you're talking about did you 230 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:56.049 tell a compelling story, to this degree, that has to have a rubric. 231 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:02.360 Otherwise it is so subjective that it will leave both the student in the 232 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:08.079 teacher right completely frustrated, sometimes even just defeated. I have listen, I'M 233 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:12.039 gonna be row with you right now. I've had to exit organizations, not 234 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.549 of my own will think that's what got to a point where, because we 235 00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:21.150 got a point where it sounded like what would being asked of me was to 236 00:17:21.349 --> 00:17:25.910 demonstrate something, and I thought I was demonstrating it, but there wasn't a 237 00:17:25.950 --> 00:17:32.299 rubric for how I should demons to what standard you are demonstrate standard? And 238 00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:37.099 then, and then how is that weighted up against the other things? Right? 239 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:41.259 So let's just say, let's say I'm you know, I'm not saying 240 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:42.019 I got a gift, but you know I might have a gift. Let's 241 00:17:42.019 --> 00:17:45.690 just say I have a gift for telling a compelling story. So let's if 242 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:48.490 I have that. I have that gift and I and I'm ever getting that 243 00:17:48.569 --> 00:17:53.410 to this degree. And then there's some other metric like just did you book 244 00:17:53.450 --> 00:17:56.970 the meeting? If all we're looking at it, did you book the meeting 245 00:17:56.369 --> 00:18:00.240 and we're not figuring out why someone who's telling such compelling stories is not booking 246 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:06.720 meeting. Simply you don't book the meeting. Goodbye. I think that get 247 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.000 is how you have folks that might have, if they were able to stick 248 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:14.430 with it, end up being good sales leaders, good sales managers, leaving 249 00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.349 the profession all together. I mean, they didn't run me out, but 250 00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:21.869 will need to get run out of the front all together, because this one 251 00:18:22.029 --> 00:18:23.710 thrick thing. You're on it, you're on it. But let me shape 252 00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:27.059 that just a little. Bit. So the result, the objective that we're 253 00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:30.619 engineering to is to get the meeting. We're trying to book the meeting shore, 254 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:33.700 of course, and one of the key characteristics to booking that meeting, 255 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.420 one of the key behaviors, if you will, is telling a compelling story. 256 00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:41.329 But it's not the only one, sure right, there are others. 257 00:18:41.369 --> 00:18:47.490 I mean time management is another means and mechanism by which to do that effective 258 00:18:47.809 --> 00:18:52.009 a questioning might be another means of doing that, managing an objection. These 259 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:56.640 are all different skills, competencies and behaviors that go into booking the meeting. 260 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.079 And so while, to your point, you maybe you know, Spike on 261 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.440 your ability to tell a story, and I could tell that. There's no 262 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.119 doubt about that, but in terms of your ability to manage time or ask 263 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.390 effective questions and and in these other characteristics are behaviors. That's what we look 264 00:19:11.390 --> 00:19:14.910 at. That's what we look at to try and figure out what are the 265 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:19.430 behaviors that drive performance right, and I think that's where this coaching, the 266 00:19:19.589 --> 00:19:25.460 coaches, it's so important because if I'm if I'm new to the organization, 267 00:19:26.019 --> 00:19:29.460 and the person who is a sales manager who is coaching me is new to 268 00:19:29.539 --> 00:19:33.180 that role, right, they a year or less in that role, then 269 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:37.740 it's easier for both of us to identify. Yet this person, like you 270 00:19:37.819 --> 00:19:42.170 said, Spike some storytelling. It's a lot more difficult to identify. Again, 271 00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:45.049 how they should weight that up against the other things. Right, and 272 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:51.289 to coach me around if I've never been coached around time management, you hit 273 00:19:51.329 --> 00:19:52.359 it on the head. Are you reading my diary? Are you in my 274 00:19:52.440 --> 00:20:00.119 head? No, Oh, he pulled my card. It's true, y'all, 275 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:02.319 but anyway. So, yeah, so, if I had never been 276 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:03.599 coached around that, this guy had there been coach around, had a coach 277 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.640 around that? Well, then that's how we get to both of US throwing 278 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:07.990 our hands up and being like thanks, I'm sorry, I can't help you, 279 00:20:08.150 --> 00:20:11.029 can't help me, but it was fun. So yeah, this is 280 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:15.630 it's so important and so valuable and I think if you are, I think 281 00:20:15.670 --> 00:20:19.109 any team really needs if we're talking in the context of sales and sales measures 282 00:20:19.190 --> 00:20:26.140 and my leadership, but anytime you've got like new leaders who are not at 283 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:30.900 the executive or see sweet level of teams they're they're going to have to be 284 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:34.220 taught how to do that job in its own right. Which is obviously at 285 00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:37.569 the the crux of what we're talking about. But since you pointed out my 286 00:20:37.690 --> 00:20:41.930 lack of time, men, still it is the truth that we have. 287 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:45.730 We have spent all of our time fleshing this out. You guys. I'm 288 00:20:45.730 --> 00:20:48.930 so glad we did, because you really did lay this out in a way 289 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.440 that I think is really easy to consume either to understand sort of the impact 290 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.920 of doing this right and doing this wrong. But now that a specially take 291 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.920 to brain and see what I could get out of it is time, Paul, 292 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.039 for you to tell us what you are putting in it. So talk 293 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.309 about a learning resource that you have engaged with here recently that is either, 294 00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:11.230 you know, informing your approach. The shift got you excited these days? 295 00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:14.670 Yeah, yeah, thanks for the question. Probably the one thing that's really 296 00:21:14.670 --> 00:21:18.259 blowing my hair back right now is is an effort that was launched by a 297 00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:22.940 friend of mine. His name is Matt Larson. He's a super successful entrepreneur 298 00:21:23.059 --> 00:21:29.940 here in Colorado that is now turning his attention to more kind of philanthropic work 299 00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:34.250 and he's just launched something called the Human Improvement Project. And I cannot stress 300 00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:38.730 enough the human improvement project, the acronym is a cool one. Hit The 301 00:21:38.849 --> 00:21:42.690 human improvement project. Go check it out and I think for all parents that 302 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:47.799 are out there really trying to understand how to better communicate with their children and 303 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:52.400 really get on the same level and understand the emotional development of our kids and 304 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.839 the role that parents play. No doubt about it. It has brought implications 305 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.960 into corporate environments and other relationships that you have, but the way in which 306 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:06.710 we impact and an imprint on our children and the emotional volatility that they're in 307 00:22:06.950 --> 00:22:10.829 today and how we shake that. That's what they're doing and it's just great, 308 00:22:10.869 --> 00:22:14.910 great stuff, and I couldn't be more supportive and enthusiastic about the work 309 00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:17.740 that maths team or doing. I love it. This is the kind of 310 00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:21.259 recommendation I live for on this show. You are reading my sorry because I'm 311 00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:25.019 a mother of two teen girls and I'm to be right out and check this 312 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:29.099 out. So it's like me. I know that everybody listening has become a 313 00:22:29.299 --> 00:22:32.529 fast fan of yours. Paul, tell us, tell us how to connect 314 00:22:32.529 --> 00:22:36.369 with you. So I you know, I think it's relatively simple. You 315 00:22:36.410 --> 00:22:41.690 know commercial tribecom. I'm on Linkedin. I've got a twitter handle. You 316 00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:42.970 know, I think just those kind of basically, you should be able to 317 00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:45.039 find me. If you can't find me, that's a problem. And but 318 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.960 I don't fair enough, I won't ask you for the twitter head of y'all. 319 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:52.039 He gave us home where you gotta see you one of them. What 320 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:57.279 are you? Definitely you can get a practice your research tools right we I 321 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.710 want to have you one again because there are things that you, I talked 322 00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:03.390 up off talked about offline that we didn't get to because of up poor time 323 00:23:03.430 --> 00:23:06.509 and was killed and, y'all, the listener shouldn't supper for it. So 324 00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.150 what do you want again? This has been really fun. Thank you so 325 00:23:08.309 --> 00:23:11.990 much for coming on to talk, Mota, how important it really is to 326 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.819 put a premium on coaching the coaches. They so much ball. Nikki, 327 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:22.660 you're awesome. Thank you. Thank you. We totally get it. We 328 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.410 publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot to 329 00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:30.609 keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB growth big three. I 330 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:36.089 no fluff email. That boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week 331 00:23:36.130 --> 00:23:41.329 of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom. Big Three. That 332 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.640 sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three