May 30, 2020

#HowtoPodcast 14: Getting Thought Leaders On Your Podcast Is Not Your Key to Audience Growth

In this episode of the #HowToPodcast Series, James & Logan dispel the common myth that getting thought leaders on your podcast is the key to audience growth.

If you like this episode, you'll probably also love:

How to Skyrocket Organic Traffic in 5 Steps with Gaetano DiNardi


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:08.630 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.789 --> 00:00:13.869 Today is another episode in our how to podcast series. We have been a 3 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:18.070 little bit lack and adding some new content here. We've been doing some other 4 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:21.940 things to answer some questions. Today we're going to be talking about dispelling the 5 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:25.940 myth that getting a big name, getting that one thought leader, is really 6 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:30.660 gonna Change Your audience growth. I am joined today by our founder and CEO, 7 00:00:30.699 --> 00:00:34.500 James Carvery. James, I doing today, man, I'm fantastic and 8 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:38.009 this is something I hear all the time. Logan, you were just talking 9 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.210 to a customer of ours that that brought this up. It typically comes from 10 00:00:42.210 --> 00:00:47.369 Pr. So if you're if you're a marketer listening to this this question, 11 00:00:47.729 --> 00:00:53.479 most often, especially in larger organizations, you end up having pr step into 12 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.719 the podcast process and they don't know look and when they typically step in as 13 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.320 it is, it usually kind of in the final hours, right before you're 14 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.390 about to launch, but definitely happened to a tim or two. Sometimes it's 15 00:01:04.430 --> 00:01:08.989 earlier on. It depends on that relationship between marketing and PR and the organ 16 00:01:10.030 --> 00:01:12.390 structure in the relationship, all that sort of stuff. But we've definitely seen 17 00:01:12.510 --> 00:01:18.269 like, okay, marketing has the content plan and maybe even has identified some 18 00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:21.500 guests. Were just said Hey, we want to talk about these and as 19 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:25.340 long as someone fits this persona, then you know that's that's going to fit 20 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:29.620 in there, whereas pr wants things to be usually a little bit more mapped 21 00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:34.689 out and and want some bigger names typically included in that plan of who you're 22 00:01:34.730 --> 00:01:38.010 going to have them podcast for sure. Yeah, yeah, so we wanted 23 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:42.489 to dispel some of these myths. If anything, you know, you can 24 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:46.969 send this episode to your PR folks and have them have them here from us. 25 00:01:47.010 --> 00:01:52.439 I mean we've done this for a hundred plus companies. We've produced thousands 26 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.760 of podcast episodes. We've got lots of data. We're seeing data on download 27 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.400 numbers for all of our customer shows. So we're not just spouting kind of 28 00:02:00.430 --> 00:02:07.150 our personal opinion. We're seeing that the difference of having a big name does 29 00:02:07.269 --> 00:02:12.270 not actually result in what you think. It probably results in a quick story 30 00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:15.349 for us. For those listening that are familiar with Gary V, which I 31 00:02:15.349 --> 00:02:19.219 don't know how you can be in marketing or in any sort of marketing girl 32 00:02:19.259 --> 00:02:22.219 and not know who Gary V is. But if you don't. He owns 33 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:27.259 a massive AD agency in New York City and is probably the most wellknown entrepreneur 34 00:02:27.379 --> 00:02:30.449 in the world today. I would say maybe that that maybe next, slightly 35 00:02:30.610 --> 00:02:37.490 below Elon Musk, but regardless, we had Gary V on Bob Growth few 36 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:39.610 years ago. I think it was actually almost it was just over three years 37 00:02:39.650 --> 00:02:44.319 ago from the day that we're recording this. I got to interview him for 38 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:49.439 a virtual summit that we were doing with some other partners and we repurpose the 39 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.879 episode on B Tob Growth. We've also had Simon Senek, the guy that 40 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.400 did the Ted talk about start with why. He wrote a book called start 41 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:02.349 with why, and both of those episodes were two of our least downloaded episodes 42 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:07.310 in bb growth. We've done over sixteen hundred episodes at this point and when 43 00:03:07.349 --> 00:03:12.310 we look at download numbers for the Gary v Episode in the Simon Senek episode, 44 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:15.460 you would think that those episodes would have a massive draw, but it 45 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:21.180 the reality is they didn't and they were some of our some of our lower 46 00:03:21.340 --> 00:03:23.979 downloaded episodes. So I want to I want to jam on why that is 47 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:29.810 and kind of what Logan and eyes thinking is around this, because man, 48 00:03:29.930 --> 00:03:35.090 there's just a lot of opportunity in talking to practitioners and talking to folks that 49 00:03:35.129 --> 00:03:38.569 are actually doing the job of the people that you're trying to serve with your 50 00:03:38.610 --> 00:03:43.120 product or service. And so look and what are your initial thoughts on this 51 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:46.199 idea? Yeah, and one piece of context I think I want to add 52 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:49.840 is that, like, we're not just picking on PR here. I had 53 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:53.400 a conversation with a marketing leader the other day. They are a hundred and 54 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:59.550 forty episodes into their podcast and they interview practitioners in the sales space in a 55 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:02.150 few different vertical markets that they serve, and then also kind of some sales 56 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:06.270 thought leaders, some some authors and bigger names in the sales space, and 57 00:04:06.669 --> 00:04:10.460 we were talking he was saying, Hey, we need to get a more 58 00:04:10.539 --> 00:04:13.500 steady stream of that. You know, you guys have had gry V and 59 00:04:13.539 --> 00:04:17.500 Simon Senec on on your podcast and I share the exact story that you just 60 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:21.379 you just talked about now. You wrote about that interview with Gary V and 61 00:04:21.579 --> 00:04:26.410 in your book and content based networking. It was awesome experience. Some good 62 00:04:26.529 --> 00:04:30.370 relationships came out of that scenario as well, but it didn't change the trajectory 63 00:04:30.569 --> 00:04:34.889 of our downloads in our reach on bb growth, and I think that's the 64 00:04:35.050 --> 00:04:38.920 myth that a lot of people are buying into, both from the marketing and 65 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.959 the PR side. I think the first thing you've got to think about is 66 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.319 the value for that that big name, and then also the value for the 67 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.480 listener. So let's talk about the first one, the value for that big 68 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:55.470 name. Now we had one customer where Gary v was on his podcast and 69 00:04:55.550 --> 00:04:59.350 he kind of went he had his team go all in on promoting that episode, 70 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.350 but he mentioned like Hey, there's an opportunity here, I'm going to 71 00:05:02.389 --> 00:05:05.709 do something cool. It was it was like because it came out of the 72 00:05:05.870 --> 00:05:10.899 conversation that they ended up having. But think about Gary V, for example, 73 00:05:10.939 --> 00:05:15.819 how many other podcasts he's on on a regular basis, other shows, 74 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:19.819 other appearances and all of the content that his team is pushing out. It's 75 00:05:19.899 --> 00:05:24.930 no fault on gear aid, but there's no there's no incentive or there's no 76 00:05:25.050 --> 00:05:30.610 mechanism for them to heavily promote every everything that they do in every other media 77 00:05:30.889 --> 00:05:33.569 entity that they appear on. And so that's the one side of it and 78 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:35.680 then we'll get into the listeners. Do you want to add something to that 79 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:40.079 before we go to the next apartment. Yeah, I think you've got to 80 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:44.839 be realistic. If your shill is getting two hundred downloads an episode, you 81 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:50.029 can't expect to get somebody that is accustomed to being able to reach thousands and 82 00:05:50.149 --> 00:05:56.269 thousands of people at a moment's notice. And so thinking through the what value 83 00:05:56.550 --> 00:06:00.550 can I offer to the guest is really important. But what I what I 84 00:06:00.709 --> 00:06:03.980 really want to hammer hammer in on is that, like, I wrote an 85 00:06:03.980 --> 00:06:09.300 email while back. It was called and the subject line was stop chasing influencers, 86 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:12.860 and we outlined this story of like, Hey, we've interviewed some big 87 00:06:12.899 --> 00:06:17.500 names and our downloads did not skyrocket, and a lot of that's because of 88 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:25.050 how discoverability works within within podcast platforms. It's not like a news feed algorithm 89 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:29.329 where stuff is popping up in your in your feed that you're not subscribe to. 90 00:06:29.329 --> 00:06:34.160 You subscribe to a show because you saw promotion happen on social or you 91 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:38.879 heard somebody mentioned that they had a podcast on another podcast that you listen to, 92 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:41.399 or a friend of your said, Hey, you got to check out 93 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.839 this podcast, and so you've got to think about how are people finding your 94 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:51.069 show and if your show is hyper relevant to a very specific persona, people 95 00:06:51.069 --> 00:06:56.029 are likely going to talk about that show. So you should spend way more 96 00:06:56.110 --> 00:07:00.550 time thinking about how you're branding and positioning your show. Then you should think 97 00:07:00.589 --> 00:07:04.579 about trying to get massive names on your show because, I mean, spoiler 98 00:07:04.699 --> 00:07:10.939 alert, every every big show, every show, tries to go after these 99 00:07:11.019 --> 00:07:15.689 influencers and it kind of dilutes the influencers message. When I like, I 100 00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:20.970 know when a particular author just released a book because they're on seventy four different 101 00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:26.370 podcast that doesn't make your show stand out and it doesn't make your show unique 102 00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:30.360 that you're one of the seventy four Brazilian podcast that this author went and did 103 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.720 an interview for. It might be good content, it might be relevant to 104 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.800 your audience, it might not be, but I just from my perspective and 105 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:43.160 from the experience that we've seen, we have not seen an increased number of 106 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:47.189 downloads by having these these big names. Now to you, you made a 107 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:50.990 point offline logan of you know, if you do have a big name, 108 00:07:51.350 --> 00:07:56.550 we're not saying don't interview anybody big on your show, that that should not 109 00:07:56.949 --> 00:07:59.259 I don't think that should be the focus of it. Like, for example, 110 00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:01.459 there was a there's a friend of mine whose podcast I hadn't listened to 111 00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:07.459 in a while and he interviewed a big name recently and posted about it on 112 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.420 Linkedin. I saw it in my feet and I was like, oh, 113 00:08:09.860 --> 00:08:13.089 that sounds interesting, I'll go and check out that episode, and I ended 114 00:08:13.129 --> 00:08:15.970 up going and downloading a few other episodes while I was there. So in 115 00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:20.250 that case he did use the big name that he had on his show as 116 00:08:20.329 --> 00:08:22.490 the tip of the sphere to re engage me, who is a former listener, 117 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:26.519 to go and listen to more of his episodes. So it can work, 118 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.639 but it does not mean that every episode of your show needs to be 119 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.720 this, you know massive, name it. One it's not sustainable and to 120 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.039 it's just not as effective as you think it is. Yeah, there's two 121 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.350 things I want to touch on there. One, it's not sustainable, like 122 00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:45.269 like you just said, but also, if you're going to do it, 123 00:08:45.470 --> 00:08:50.389 set your expectations and set yourself up for success. So you talked about just 124 00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:56.220 like thinking about the daily routine and and how consumption happens in podcasting. When 125 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:01.500 I'm scrolling through a feed of you know, hey, here's my upnext downloaded 126 00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:03.659 episodes. I got one from John Barrows. I got one from the sales 127 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:09.379 engagement podcast. I got one from Donald Miller building a story brand. I'm 128 00:09:09.419 --> 00:09:13.450 looking at the headlines. I'm not scrolling through that. Now maybe I'm I'm 129 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:15.690 the minority, but I'm going to go out on the limb and say that 130 00:09:15.769 --> 00:09:18.169 I don't think that I am. People are looking for the headline. I 131 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.529 pulled our our audience on linked in a while back. How many people read 132 00:09:22.649 --> 00:09:26.960 show notes to like decide are they going to consume the episode? It was 133 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:30.519 a very small portion. Most people are going into show notes to maybe follow 134 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.519 up with the guest or find a resource that was mentioned, something like that. 135 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.120 So if you are going to have a big name on, don't think 136 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.549 that hey, that big name now shows up in my podcast feed and downloads 137 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:45.629 are going to skyrocket, because it doesn't really change anything. Someone's either going 138 00:09:45.629 --> 00:09:48.190 to click on that or not. They might share it. What you need 139 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:54.100 to do, though, is connect that to social and talk about what is 140 00:09:54.139 --> 00:09:56.379 the content that they shared. If I interviewed this author and I ask them 141 00:09:56.419 --> 00:10:01.700 a different question, which again goes to interview prep and as a different conversation, 142 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:07.250 how are you going to draw some different sort of content perspective or story 143 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:11.169 out of that big name, that author, that thought leader or influencer? 144 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:16.490 And then how is your team going to throw extra promotion behind that episode to 145 00:10:16.649 --> 00:10:20.490 make it intriguing for that person who's maybe not engaged or doesn't know about your 146 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:24.799 show and isn't subscribed? And also, how can you make it really easy 147 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.840 for that guest to promote their show? Can you create some content for them 148 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.480 to be able to easily share some some graphics? Can you, you know, 149 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:37.950 send two or three follow up emails to multiple people on their team with 150 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:43.669 links to make it very easy for them to share? Don't assume, practitioner 151 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:46.110 or thought leader, that your guest is going to share their episode that we're 152 00:10:46.110 --> 00:10:50.779 all human. We take the path of least resistance, so make it easy. 153 00:10:52.179 --> 00:10:54.100 The other thing, you know, we talked about, okay, value 154 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:58.340 for you as the podcaster, value for the guest. The other thing I 155 00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:01.659 think we got to touch on here is the value for the listener. And 156 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:03.450 this a little bit of a tangent, a little bit of a rabbit trail, 157 00:11:03.490 --> 00:11:05.690 but this story kind of came to mind is you and I were talking 158 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:11.409 about the subject I was listening to. I forget his name. He plays 159 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:15.450 the character hopper on stranger things. Now, unless your heads been under a 160 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:18.049 rock, you probably know what stranger things is. If you haven't watched that, 161 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:22.320 you should anyway. Great Show Hopper. He's a he's a cop. 162 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.960 It's got some drinking problems. You little rough around the edges and small town 163 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.000 in Iowa. Know it's Indiana, right, and stranger things anyway, small 164 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.269 town cop. And he was doing this interview talking about the very first scene 165 00:11:35.710 --> 00:11:41.190 with him on stranger things. He's shirt off in his trailer, small town 166 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:43.190 in Indiana, and he was like man, I was prepping for this and 167 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:46.789 I was like I got to get ripped. I can't have my first scene 168 00:11:46.220 --> 00:11:50.100 have this great six pack and not have this great six pack. And then 169 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:54.899 he thought, well, that's not really relatable. That's part of what stranger 170 00:11:54.019 --> 00:12:00.100 things is like, the nostalgia and the relatability of the characters and small town 171 00:12:00.139 --> 00:12:03.529 America. That's that's drawing people in and hooking them. Now the aliens and 172 00:12:03.529 --> 00:12:07.409 all sorts of other stuff is it's cool too. But his point there that 173 00:12:07.450 --> 00:12:11.289 I think is relevant to this conversation is, you know, you were talking 174 00:12:11.330 --> 00:12:16.840 about some podcasts that you've listened to that are all interviewing these massive successes and 175 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:22.000 they're not as relatable for you when you're listening to other podcasts where they're interviewing 176 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:26.279 CEOS and founders of companies that are at our stage, where you can learn 177 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.149 more from things that are fresh in their mind what they're going through, just 178 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:31.909 like you would with, you know, an agency, peer group or a 179 00:12:31.990 --> 00:12:37.629 mastermind that you're part of. And so the relatability factor, I think, 180 00:12:37.789 --> 00:12:41.110 is important to think about as well. I get feedback on our show all 181 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:46.580 the time because we're often interviewing VPI's of marketing who are in the trenches at 182 00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:50.580 growing companies, some established in a lot of brands you've never heard of, 183 00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:54.899 and I hear listeners say, you know, they get a ton of value 184 00:12:54.940 --> 00:13:00.570 from those episodes. So, whether it's a thought leader or a practitioner, 185 00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:03.610 and you know, we all know there's pray area in between. It's not 186 00:13:03.690 --> 00:13:07.769 like they come with labels on their hats. But it's about the content and 187 00:13:07.850 --> 00:13:11.370 it's about what are you pulling out, how are you helping them promote and 188 00:13:11.009 --> 00:13:16.759 how are you making the content actionable for your listeners? That's going to carry 189 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.120 the day. Yeah, when, when the content is actionable, that's what 190 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.320 I found. The difference between, you know, the authors and thought leaders 191 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.750 that write books, and this is coming from a guy who's written a book 192 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.950 like I've, I want to be on podcasts talking about the message from the 193 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:35.190 book because I want to I want to promote the book I think. I 194 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:39.669 think the ideas in the book are a game changer and I would hope that 195 00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:43.460 people want to have me on their show. But they should not only be 196 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:50.340 focused on people that have written books. There are practitioners that have incredibly thoughtful 197 00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:56.250 ideas and tactics and strategies that they've deployed. And we're talking specifically about business 198 00:13:56.289 --> 00:14:00.809 podcasts here. That's for context. All of our hundred plus podcasts are business 199 00:14:00.889 --> 00:14:05.690 podcast we're working specifically with BTB companies in a variety of industries. And if 200 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:13.120 you can if you can pull out practical, tangible, actionable content from your 201 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.440 guest, regardless of whether they are a thought leader and they wrote a book 202 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:22.759 on it or they just stumbled on this experiment with their team three weeks ago 203 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.389 and they saw incredible results from doing something crazy with their chatbot or figuring out 204 00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:33.549 they just went through a repositioning of their brand and they've figured out how to. 205 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:39.100 We're all within their marketing messaging that they needed to inject this new kind 206 00:14:39.139 --> 00:14:45.580 of repositioning or brand statement like that content is going to be far more helpful 207 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:48.379 than something Gary v could tell you. That he said, you know, 208 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:52.409 a million times before on his youtube channel and all the other places where people 209 00:14:52.409 --> 00:14:58.450 consume Gary v. So don't discount the value that a practitioner can add to 210 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.610 your listener. We've just seen it over and over and over again that there's 211 00:15:01.690 --> 00:15:07.009 tremendous value to be had in learning from your peers and people are hungry for 212 00:15:07.129 --> 00:15:09.639 that. They want to they want to learn from people that are in the 213 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:15.360 trenches and a lot of people honestly kind of disrespect the thought leaders and authors 214 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:20.120 because they get so much play and they get so they get lifted on these 215 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:24.830 pedestals. I hear people all the time that say things like I'd rather not 216 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.269 hear from a sales trainer that hasn't sold anything in thirty years. I'd rather 217 00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:31.629 actually hear from someone who sold something in the last decade. Now that's in 218 00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:35.740 a sales context, but I've heard similar things of like you know, I 219 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:39.539 would much rather hear from somebody who's actually in the trenches and doing this work, 220 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:43.980 then somebody who just wrote a book about it based on something that they 221 00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:48.179 did, you know, fourteen years ago, and and that's that's real. 222 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:50.330 I mean that that's the sentiment that I get from a lot of the people 223 00:15:50.370 --> 00:15:54.330 that we talked to that listen to the show. Yeah, absolutely. I 224 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.210 mean one of the greatest episodes that like drew me into be to be growth 225 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:03.730 as a listener was one you did with our boy g Gaetano, when he 226 00:16:03.929 --> 00:16:08.720 was at salesacker. Talked about the user generated content strategy, the results that 227 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.799 it drove for them from an SEO perspective, and it broke it down right 228 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:17.039 and you and he walks through this is what we did here, this is 229 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:21.029 what we stopped doing, and you and I recorded an episode about, I 230 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:25.190 think about fifteen audience growth strategies, and one of the things we were talking 231 00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:29.909 about is people are looking for things to do and to start doing and to 232 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:33.059 stop doing. And I have a lot of guests on BB growth that he 233 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:37.419 sometimes we let them kind of come to us with their area of expertise or 234 00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:40.419 passion. Right now, what do you want to talk about? And then 235 00:16:40.419 --> 00:16:42.700 we kind of coach them through what's going to make a good episode and I 236 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:47.169 get a lot of let's talk about being more human in your marketing, where 237 00:16:47.210 --> 00:16:49.730 the power of digital is way too high level. And what I tell guess 238 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:52.129 is, you know, it may seem like Oh, that's going to be 239 00:16:52.169 --> 00:16:56.929 valuable because it's like up here thirtyzero foot view, and when I say, 240 00:16:56.129 --> 00:17:00.690 like, what's that tweet? Three tweeks you made to all your landing pages 241 00:17:00.730 --> 00:17:03.559 in the last thirty days, they're like, well, that's that's really in 242 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.079 the weeds. That's the nitty gritty. I'm like, in the weeds is 243 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:11.119 where people get value. It feels counterintuitive to a lot of people, but 244 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.869 I can tell you I've been hosting a daily show for the last two years 245 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:18.990 almost now, and I've heard a lot of people as guests on the show 246 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:23.390 and the more granular they get in, the more actionable they have something to 247 00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:26.670 share, the more we get feedback and the more you know, when I 248 00:17:26.789 --> 00:17:32.660 post that content on Linkedin, that I get more engagement as opposed to the 249 00:17:32.779 --> 00:17:37.180 good reminders, and so I think that points to the value that practitioners can 250 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.700 bring to your show, but also the way you, as a host, 251 00:17:40.819 --> 00:17:45.569 can better deliver value to your listeners about who you're interviewing. That we're not 252 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.690 saying you can't get tactical stuff. I've gotten tactical stuff from Gary B but 253 00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:53.410 don't just expect like hey, the big names coming and they're going to say, 254 00:17:53.690 --> 00:17:56.210 they're going to say stuff and downloads are Goin to sky. wrote. 255 00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.039 Yeah, don't. Don't expect the big name to come and bring their audience 256 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.599 with them. That's not how it works and podcasting. That maybe how it 257 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.599 works in other platforms and if you maybe, if you do a collaboration on 258 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.200 instagram or a twitter, I don't know how the algorithms for all of those 259 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.789 work. But but within podcasting, Gary these audience does it come with him 260 00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:21.069 to our feed. It's very hard to pull people that subscribe to Gary Be's 261 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:26.029 podcast and bring them over to our podcast unless we actually get onto his show 262 00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:30.539 and talk are and are able to talk about what we do. And if 263 00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:33.339 you listen to any of Gary V's or any of these big names like, 264 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:37.980 they don't do that. That's not something it's not really an achievable goal for 265 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:44.450 you to go after. So instead get more serious about honing in on who 266 00:18:44.609 --> 00:18:49.769 is the specific persona that our content is going to add enormous value tobe and 267 00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:55.289 then let's let's not only try to add value to them as a listener, 268 00:18:55.759 --> 00:19:00.920 but let's go after their peers and get their peers to be a guest on 269 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.839 our show so that our listener can hear from their peers and people that are 270 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.079 in the trenches with them. Those folks are a lot easier to get on 271 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.869 your show. The content, honestly, I think, is equally as good. 272 00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:15.990 That's not to downplay, or did discount the value of the content from 273 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:18.349 the big names, but it's going to allow you to have a much more 274 00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:25.460 consistent show with great quality content. You just have to stop thinking that influencers 275 00:19:25.539 --> 00:19:27.980 are the only people with good content to share. Yeah, absolutely, and 276 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:33.619 they're not the only path to audience growth. Will link in this episode too, 277 00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:37.140 Blond Post that we've been working on to just get all of the things 278 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:41.930 out of our collective brain here at sweetish on the different things we've tried. 279 00:19:42.009 --> 00:19:45.849 We've seen work when it comes to audience growth, so will link to that 280 00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:48.049 in the show notes. If you're not used to seeing us on camera, 281 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:52.599 something new we're doing is we've recently launched the BB Growth Youtube Channel. So 282 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.400 you can still hear us every single day here on BB growth in whatever cast 283 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.000 aff here used to listening, but will also link to the Youtube Channel if 284 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.200 you want to see our faces, see us get a little bit riled up. 285 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.269 James and I can get a little bit passionate about dispelling some of these 286 00:20:07.309 --> 00:20:11.869 common myths when it comes to podcasting. So we got a little bit fired 287 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:14.869 up today. I think it at least for me, James. If anybody 288 00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:17.829 listening to this is not yet connected with you, it's the best way a 289 00:20:17.869 --> 00:20:21.859 man. So linkedin is really the best place for folks to connect with me. 290 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.380 James Carberry Sea Arba or why? Email is james at sweet fish Mediacom. 291 00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:30.660 Would love to connect with anybody and everybody. Same for me. Just 292 00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:33.339 look me up on Linkedin. Last name is l y Elies, or shoot 293 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:38.210 me an email logan and sweetfish mediacom and connect with us on Linkedin. We're 294 00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:41.369 trying to share as much content there, as well as the podcast and the 295 00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:45.930 new youtube channel. As always, however you find this content, we hope 296 00:20:45.970 --> 00:20:52.319 it's useful and thank you so much for listening. I hate it when podcasts 297 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.920 incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, 298 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.400 because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So 299 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.400 here's what we decided to do. If you leave a review for me to 300 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.750 be growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James 301 00:21:07.789 --> 00:21:11.630 at Sweetish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, 302 00:21:11.630 --> 00:21:15.309 content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 303 00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:18.660 We get a review, you get a free book. We both win.