How to Structure a Modern Marketing Team, with Gaetano DiNardi

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.960 Today on B two B growth, we are sharing a featured conversation from our 2 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:08.880 archive, with over two thousand episodes released. We want to resurface episodes worth 3 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:12.400 another listen. Before we jump in, I just want to say I would 4 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:15.519 love to connect and hear from you on Linkedin. You can search Benji block 5 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.640 over there and that's a great place to also interact with sweet fish and B 6 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:32.719 two B growth. All right, let's jump into today's featured conversation, conversations 7 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:40.240 from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. I'm 8 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:45.200 here with Gitano Donardi. He's the VP of growth over at Aura, and 9 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:49.119 welcome into the show, Gitano. Great to have you with us. Yeah, 10 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:52.479 man, thanks for having me. I Love B Two B growth. 11 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.479 You guys have a great show. I think I've done it a couple of 12 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.399 times now and uh man, it's always it's always cool to come back and 13 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:06.000 talk shop about marketing. So thanks, thanks for having me back to appreciate 14 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:08.879 it. Was Jealous Because I wasn't the host that got to talk to you, 15 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:11.359 so I had to get you back so that I could say that I 16 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.840 also had a conversation with you. Now, I'm just kidding, but here 17 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:19.719 we go. Okay, so I know one one interesting piece of your journey 18 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:23.079 is your back in DTC land. You're not in B two B anymore. 19 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:27.920 Give us the genesis of that move and and some of what you're seeing now 20 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:32.159 that you've left b two be, because you have a room full of of 21 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:36.439 B Two b marketers intrigued right now. Yeah, you know. Um, 22 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.519 long story short is that I had a really good run in B two B. 23 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:46.879 I bounced around from various kinds of B two B software companies selling mostly 24 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.439 like commoditized products, to be honest with you, so like crn voice over 25 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:57.599 Ip. I had long runs at companies who sell those products. And you 26 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:02.079 know, the interesting thing about direct to consume is that because in B two 27 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:07.439 B, if you're selling like a low cost product like crm or void, 28 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:15.479 that's like kind of commoditized. It's a high volume transactional model in sales. 29 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.639 So it's kind of similar to direct to consumer, because direct to consumer is 30 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:27.039 also high volume, transactional motion, low cost product. So some things apply 31 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.400 in principle and other things don't. Uh when we can talk about that. 32 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:38.680 But the reason why I joined the B two C company is because I kind 33 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:43.840 of just like ran my course at, you know, various B two B 34 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:47.439 companies and I was ready to make a transition into something else. And while 35 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.680 that transitional period was happening, I actually got hacked. Somebody stole my identity. 36 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:59.400 Yeah, they hacked my phone. I was locked out of my apple 37 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:05.360 account, my Gmail Account, I locked out of everything and I was in 38 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:09.000 a foreign country while it happened. So, Um, this was a horrific 39 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:15.400 or a deal. And the outcome is that I was interviewing with a company 40 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:23.360 that actually provides online safety, Internet security protection, identitate that protection services and 41 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.039 I'm like, Oh, this is like really timely, because this happened to 42 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.639 me and now I can feel like the consumer, I can feel like the 43 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.599 end user. I know the emotions, I know actually what it feels like 44 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.039 to be scammed, Um, and it sucks. So the star is kind 45 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:43.879 of aligned. And, you know, six months in I've been in B 46 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.560 TWOC marketing. You know, no sales unit, no outbound B two B 47 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:52.680 sales, nothing like that. Um, so it feels really good and I'm 48 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.280 happy to be doing what I'm doing and I probably won't go back to be 49 00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:00.280 to be to be honest with you, well, I like your voice. 50 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.000 As one that has the experience and B two B and can from time to 51 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:08.639 time we do this right on B two B growth. I'll have somebody outside 52 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.840 of our the waters we swim in, come chat with us. Maybe they 53 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.479 used to be in the B two B space and it just helps because it 54 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:18.759 feels like a breath of fresh air in certain ways and just that mindset shift 55 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:25.240 can be really wonderful. The Genesis of inviting you back on the show was 56 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:29.720 that I saw a post that you had over on linkedin where you kind of 57 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:34.560 were maybe like blue sky, if you were captain of your own ship, 58 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:39.199 what you would do as far as a modern marketing team goes, and we're 59 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:43.839 gonna discuss that over the next few minutes here. What was your thinking on 60 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.920 on even this post? Like have you just been mulling over how to structure 61 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.160 a marketing team or what's got you thinking in this this new direction? Yeah, 62 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:57.720 I think like the evolution to B Two C marketing has definitely like caused 63 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:02.199 a lot of wheels to spin in my brain and you know, it also 64 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:11.720 caused me to like reflect on what are the ways that like an upcoming company 65 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:17.360 would would fight back against powerful legacy brands and you know, you have this 66 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.879 all over the place, but like in my particular world, like I have 67 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:29.800 to fight against northern lifelock, McAfee a vast you know, these are like 68 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:31.480 tools that, like when you buy a PC, are kind of just like 69 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:36.000 built in. Their pop up window just shows up. Yeah, pop up 70 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:40.920 window nails you. Like you ever, try to UNINSTALL MCAFEE and see how 71 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:45.920 Hart is like it's you know, so like when you think about like all 72 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.759 these things, you know you want to optimize the way that you kind of 73 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:56.480 compartmentalize your your you know, your units, your your your marketing units, 74 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:00.519 your your manpower, your man and woman power. So, like I kind 75 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:06.360 of broke this down into five distinct categories. Bottom of funnel, demand capturers, 76 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:12.920 demand creators that focus on mid to top of the funnel. So that's 77 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:16.240 a key distinction, is that you're separating bottom of the funnel apart from all 78 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.120 the other things and you're measuring them differently as well, which we'll talk about. 79 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:25.480 then. I would have the creative unit, which is web management, 80 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:30.839 designers, illustrators, developers, web project managers, and they're the support function 81 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:38.319 that basically fulfills the needs of demand creators and demand capturers. Then you have 82 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.920 like ops, enablement and a B M, which is kind of a bit 83 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.959 of a separate unit, and then customer marketing as well, and OPS and 84 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.600 enablement and a B M really is like a lot of this. We have 85 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:53.199 a ton of conversations that kind of focus there, because that's such a b 86 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:57.319 two be heavy play, but I think the five are are spot on. 87 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:00.959 We tell me, and maybe this isn't right place to start, but I'm 88 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:02.879 gonna start there anyway because I get to ask whatever questions I want. What 89 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:09.160 makes the creative unit unit and, like Web management, that third one like 90 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.160 a distinct team that's not just embedded in in one, in two, not 91 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:16.920 in the demand creators in the bottom of funnel, demand capturers. Yeah, 92 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:25.560 Um, the reason why is because the kinds of things that demand captures need 93 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:30.600 are like often the kinds of things that demand creators need. So you you 94 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.800 all need landing pages, you're going to need video content, you're going to 95 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:42.439 need um illustration and creative assets, you're going to need ad, creative for 96 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.319 social you know, the list kind of just goes on and on right and 97 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:54.279 the reality is that you're better off having design and Dev kind of I hate 98 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.680 to use this phrase, but lockstep, you know, kind of a line 99 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:05.079 classic buzzword where right. But like you're better off having the creative unit and 100 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:11.560 Development Working together as one combined team because very often these units are working in 101 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.279 tandem anyway and a lot of things that are dependencies were dependent. So, 102 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.120 like for a landing page, you know, unless you're using, uh, 103 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.839 like a really quick hack tool, like an instant page, where you don't 104 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.759 really need anything you just go. But for like big feature pages, I'm 105 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.519 talking about like corner stone piece of your website, you definitely don't want to 106 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.919 be using instant page or something like that. Instant page is better for like, 107 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.559 you know, just quick lead foreign page or something like that, splash 108 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:48.879 page. But like for a core pillar business page, copy design and development 109 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:54.799 kind of need to be working together in harmony there. So I prefer that 110 00:08:54.919 --> 00:09:03.080 you have creative and development working together to fulfill all the types of business needs 111 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:09.360 that the demand creators and demand captures have, because the deliverables are similar. 112 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:16.000 The difference is the content, the mindset, the way you're going about distributing 113 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:22.120 and delivering those content experiences across those different channels. So that is why I 114 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:28.360 like creative and development kind of together and in one family makes a lot of 115 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:33.919 sense. Okay, so kind of going back to maybe where I should have 116 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.000 started, I just went right for one of the questions I had based on 117 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:43.240 this post. But when I'm looking at demand creator demand capture, are you 118 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.879 saying if you were, if we dropped you and you were like a solo 119 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.960 marketer and you're hiring out a team, that this would be the order even 120 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:54.279 that you would build your team out in? Or is it just this is 121 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:58.360 a way of thinking of the five distinct groups and like where would you start, 122 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:01.360 essentially, if you were building a team from s at? Yeah, 123 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:03.200 when I came out with this post, I was just thinking about the five 124 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:09.039 distinct groups, but I didn't necessarily think about the order of operation in which 125 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.600 I would try to hire them. You know that that one is kind of 126 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.399 like open to interpretation. I don't know for sure if there's any like hard 127 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:24.759 and fast rule on like you know, should you? Because every startup like 128 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:30.399 just you know, the needs evolved Um and there's a lot of different circumstances 129 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:37.200 and I think like who you decide to hire should be kind of dependent on 130 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:39.799 a lot of things that are like happening in the business and the business model 131 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:45.639 overall, and I think like, Um, it all should start with like 132 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:50.559 what is your how do you go to market as a company and how do 133 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.279 you sell your product? So, like, Um, if your product is, 134 00:10:54.480 --> 00:11:01.399 let's say, very, very expensive and very long sales cycles and and 135 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:09.360 you know, complex enterprise selling, I would probably not start with like a 136 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:15.519 PPC marketer. Yeah, exactly. Situational. Yep, yeah, situational. 137 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:20.840 You know, like you gotta put put the Lens, the Business Lens, 138 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.519 on when you're like starting to think about how would you build this from scratch. 139 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.440 You know something, I've even seen some startups just like hire one junior 140 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.440 marketer to just go nuts like that. I think that's a bad choice, 141 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.039 but it happens a lot. Like some startup founder will be like Hey, 142 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.240 we need marketing, let's hire some junior person to do it all. Can't 143 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:45.320 afford something crazy. You gotta start somewhere higher our somewhere. Hire just the 144 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:50.320 junior marketer to just like do random marketing activities, like create content, run 145 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:56.200 social do a Webinar, you know, just get something happening. Um, 146 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:58.039 that's definitely not the way I would approach it, but I think, like 147 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:03.840 to zoom out, would say starting to build a team, a marketing team, 148 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.919 from scratch should depend on the business model and how you saw your product. 149 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:11.960 Yeah, for sure. Okay, so the thing that jumps out to 150 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.320 me the most from this is just the idea of having, if we even 151 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:22.320 just stick with those first two creators and capturers, different things that they're measured 152 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:30.000 on ultimately, like that is so worth advocating for instead of lumping all this 153 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.399 stuff together, because if you start, that's where it gets dangerous, right, 154 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.279 it's like that everybody's measured on the exact same metrics and even though they're 155 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:46.200 trying to perform different things. So give me the idea of like how you 156 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:52.360 would measure differently because of this model and how you would think about measuring differently. 157 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:58.639 Yeah, so, like you know, the demand capture is like very 158 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:07.039 bott the funnel. So that is very close to like sales, and you 159 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:13.840 measure things like conversion rate, optimization, Google, PPC, even affiliates, 160 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:20.639 right, like that's all very like finance driven stuff. So it's your it's 161 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:26.399 the common like how much are we spending to get a customer? What is 162 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:31.200 the like cost per acquisition, like what is the value of those transactions, 163 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:37.759 like revenue per user, all that stuff like just it's pure sales. All 164 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:43.200 that stuff is about sales. You can even make the argument that bottom of 165 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:50.279 funnel S C o should be about transactions and revenue and so forth. Where 166 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:56.559 where I think it gets different is how do you measure the demand creators right? 167 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:00.759 How do you? How do you measure the people that are telling the 168 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:05.639 brand story through the website and through social how are you measuring product marketing? 169 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.279 How do you measure content marketing that's not aimed at driving leads? How do 170 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.720 you how do you measure the effectiveness of video? Do you think that's exactly 171 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.440 why we like, and I'm just going to speak from B two B for 172 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.159 a second, but like that's kind of why we over index on one and 173 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.879 then we don't really go about investing as much in two being demand creators, 174 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.559 because in B two B, like I think that's why some of our stuff 175 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.240 is boring, or you get some of those like you know, we we 176 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.200 say the same things about B two B marketing over and over again, but 177 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.639 it's because you can't measure it as easily and B two B is obsessed with 178 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.879 measurement. So we haven't spent the time to think about how to measure differently. 179 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.960 So we just over index for one. Well said. Well said, 180 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:56.639 and as you made that point I was actually even thinking, like how, 181 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:01.679 how do you incentivize? Well, let's zoom out. Actually we even talk 182 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.919 before we talk about incentivizing marketers to, you know, get engagement because, 183 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.679 as you know, marketers are like incentivized mostly on sales, like sign ups, 184 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:11.919 like how much? How many sign ups do we get? How many 185 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.919 free trial starts do we get? You know, all that stuff. The 186 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:20.840 bigger question actually is, this is maybe the most important question of this whole 187 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:28.240 thing, which is if you were to remove sign ups as a measurement, 188 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:37.759 remove sign ups or any revenue focused like KPI, how would you know if 189 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:45.120 something is good? How would you know if a landing page is good? 190 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:48.600 How would you know if video is good? How would you know if a 191 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:54.559 blog article is good? How would you know if a Webinar was good? 192 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.440 How would you know if anything is good? Emails are good, how would 193 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.919 you how do you know if they're good? If if there's revenue out hot, 194 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:04.960 what do you look at? How do you know if it's good? 195 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.679 I would be looking at resonance and shares and things like that, but not 196 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.759 just vanity metrics, right, but like it's almost becomes word of mouth measurement, 197 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.399 but word of mouth in this sense of like yeah, I don't know 198 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.159 if that makes sense, but where were you going with that? That's where 199 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.480 my brain immediately were. Yeah, yeah, now you're on, you're onto 200 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:26.240 something, and I, you know, maybe I'll open it up a little 201 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:32.279 bit. But, like, the thing is a lot of people in marketing 202 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:37.320 are always asking what's the best performing landing pages or what what content is that 203 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:42.120 is performing the best? What's what's working and what's not? which videos are 204 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:47.200 working? What's you know, what's performing? You hear that all the time. 205 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:52.159 which even which ads are doing the best? And you know, if 206 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:56.399 you were to strip like revenue or some sign up related KPI from that, 207 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:00.519 you would stump marketers, I would you would stump, indeed plus percent of 208 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.000 them when you ask, how do you know if this is good? How 209 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.759 do you know? How do you tell if it's good? You can't just 210 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.359 look at it and and you know, with your own opinions say yeah, 211 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.359 this is good because it's long, or yeah, this is good because it 212 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:18.119 looks nice, or yeah, as a narrative. So it's good, you 213 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.400 know. So that actually the way to know if something is good is to 214 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:26.720 look at the engagement factors, like you were alluding to them, and every 215 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.519 kind of different channel and content type has signals that will let you know if 216 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.160 something is good. Now, the way to know if something is good is 217 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.960 not just numbers based like, and this is what I think very, very 218 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:45.799 missing from B two. B is the qualitative component, which means, like 219 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:52.079 putting this in front of the eyeballs of potential customer or do a focused group 220 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.039 of research and find out what do they think about this? That is a 221 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.960 separate that is a separate thing. But just looking at the numbers for blogs, 222 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:04.359 you would want to look at the average time on page, you would 223 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:10.839 want to look at scroll depth, you would want to look at do they 224 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.640 click through two more pages during the website session or do they just come and 225 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.839 bounce it's that comes back to that resonance piece, right, like those are 226 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:25.559 all signs that it's resonating with the person that's viewing it. Signs that it's 227 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:29.799 resonating. Yes, the other thing is that, like if you have a 228 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:34.839 seven minute time on page but bounce rate that's actually good. That means they 229 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:42.039 really consumed that. So the question really becomes how do you get them to 230 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:51.359 consume and then how do you get them to come back? Because buying a 231 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:57.559 product is, you know, it's a multi step maze full of different timing 232 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:03.920 things and and components and touch points and stuff like that. So the idea 233 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:11.279 is that it requires more of a surround sound playbook in order to get people 234 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:17.000 to to buy in the long run. And so, anyway, the final 235 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.680 point on the measurement is that you look at demand creators with engagement, you 236 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.799 know, for video, you look at things like washtime, drop off rates, 237 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:29.559 subscriber counts through Youtube, right, like you need to just figure out 238 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:33.680 what that's going to be. But the whole point is that you can't measure 239 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:40.359 the awareness like sales, because if it was the opposite and you were measuring 240 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.839 sales like awareness, be a mess, right. So you just you cannot 241 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.960 complete these two areas, and this is a part of, I think, 242 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:55.480 B Two b marketing that is really um in need of overhaul. Fantastic, 243 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.319 there's so much there that we could go into even just in the first two 244 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.359 but I think that leaves people with quite a bit to think about, because 245 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:07.279 if I was challenging our B Two B marketing audience to really focus in on 246 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.480 one of these groups, I would be challenging them to focus on demand creators 247 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:17.200 and how that is accurately thought about measured. The conversations that you're having there, 248 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:22.839 like making separating that from how you think about demand capture, would start 249 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:27.160 to change the way your team even talks. So to me that that becomes 250 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.400 a big deal. You're you're talking to a room full of B two B 251 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:36.160 marketers right now. So when you if you were to leave us with a 252 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.599 challenge of some kind coming out of these this new way of thinking about a 253 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.920 marketing team, these five distinct kind of pockets, or however you would think 254 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.319 of this like any challenge, you would leave us with Um things to really 255 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.240 be focused on. I like to say like, Um, is it a 256 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.000 mindset shift that you would want to give us, that we could walk back 257 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:00.519 into our our normal jobs and and maybe see things slightly differently? Yeah, 258 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.599 man, I think it is that mindset shift. You know, I would 259 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:08.400 start thinking about these things, the first thing I would start thinking about is, 260 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:15.319 like I would question what category am I in? and M and right 261 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:19.440 now, like if I'm a demand creator or a demand capture, where do 262 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:26.920 I fit? Where do I belong? You know, really and if I 263 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.559 and if my strengths as a marketer, it truly is not demand capture. 264 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:37.039 But I'm being measured by demand capturing KPI S and I'm being asked to demand 265 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.680 capturing things. But there's a misalignment to my strengths as a marketer. There's 266 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:47.759 a misalignment to the channel ownership that I have. You know, I would 267 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:52.839 I would start there. I would I would question your own belonging and activities 268 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.519 and what are you doing and doesn't make sense. I would start there. 269 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.000 And then, if it doesn't make sense, you need to like speak up 270 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:04.319 and say like something's just, something feels off here. I've been going with 271 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.279 the flow. I've been trying to be a team player. You know, 272 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:11.920 I don't want to raise the alarms or, you know whatever, but you 273 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.920 need to question that and you need to if it's not right, you need 274 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.920 to speak up and like make a change somehow. I would I would say 275 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:25.839 that if you are, let's say, properly bucketed, let's say you're a 276 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:32.039 demand capture and you are properly bucketed into the activities and things that you're doing 277 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:37.480 and the way you're being measured is appropriate and so forth. I would start 278 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.519 to uh, and this is assuming you're in B two B. I would 279 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:47.839 get more I would get into the mind, deeper mindset of efficiency. So, 280 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.480 like I would want to really start knowing, like I would make it. 281 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:55.839 I would be annoying about this because I've been in so many companies where 282 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.599 this wasn't the case. But I want to know how are the meetings going? 283 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.759 I wouldn't just look at like leads from this source are creating this much 284 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.720 pipeline for this much revenue or whatever. I would actually want to know from 285 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:12.480 the a ease themselves, you know, the leads and the and the meetings. 286 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.960 Like, first of all, are these leads from these sources actually turning 287 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.160 into meetings? Are there and the meetings that you're having? What are the 288 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:25.799 outcomes of those meetings? I think that is just so, so lost in 289 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.480 B two B. I've I've been in so many situations where it's just like 290 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.640 marketing will deliver all these leads from these sources and then you look at like, 291 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:38.200 all right, there's no pipeline, there's no proposals being sent Um, 292 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.680 whatever the case may be. But there's a missing link there, and the 293 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:48.640 missing link goes back to like more qualitative assessment, which is getting the insights 294 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.480 from the eighties themselves. Are these meetings going good or bad? Are People 295 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.160 showing up for for these meetings? And then you need to like, over 296 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:02.720 time see, okay, uh, these lead needs from maybe webinars have a 297 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:07.160 very negative impact on our revenue machine because these people don't want to be called, 298 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.079 they don't want to talk to us, no one's attending meetings. And 299 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.079 then we need to decide. Should we keep doing this? Should we change 300 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.640 our approach? Should we measure it differently? Should we chuck it all up 301 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:21.920 to brand and not expect a sales R O I from this thing? So, 302 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:29.519 like, those are the areas I would I would really examine after hearing 303 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.319 a conversation like this. For sure, I think if you're a team leader 304 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:38.200 listening to this clearly, like you sit in a position where you can define 305 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:45.319 these buckets and that helps your marketing team know what they what results they should 306 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.799 be driving, what they should be paying attention to. The clear picture you 307 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.160 can paint, the better your marketing team will be, the more effective they 308 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:57.119 can be because they're not all trying to judge themselves on being demand capturers, 309 00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:03.920 and then that automatically will help you elevate your team as a whole. I 310 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.079 absolutely love this conversation. I loved your Linkedin Post. You said it succinctly. 311 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.279 You still said it in a lengthy way where people could like there was 312 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.319 a meat there, but you said it succinctly enough that I think people should 313 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.799 go interact with it. You can. Your comments went off on this post. 314 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.240 People had some opinions, but you are in the comments reacting and I 315 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:25.480 loved reading through that as much as I loved reading through the Post. Okay, 316 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:29.119 tell people how they can stay connected with you. Obviously Linkedin is a 317 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:30.759 great way to do that, and then tell us a little bit where. 318 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:36.039 You're working for a security company now. It's just wildly different. But yeah, 319 00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:38.200 what's the best way to connect? Yeah, I mean just go to 320 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:44.079 my website, official Guitano DOT COM. You know, you can find everything 321 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.880 you need there and uh, you know, stay safe out there, guys. 322 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:53.319 Cyber crime is truly rising unprecedented rates. I think, like obvious, 323 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.559 leave like a little just tip out there for like what I've been learning. 324 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.000 That may help you personally, which is like, if you're one of those 325 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:10.039 people that is guilty of reusing the same passwords, recycling passwords, using easily 326 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:15.720 guessable passwords, Um, stop doing that, because those are going to all 327 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.920 get hacked eventually through blute force or through data breaches. So you should go 328 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:27.960 and change all that immediately and you should enable to factor authentication with an authenticator 329 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:33.640 APP. Try not to use SMS if you can avoid it, because there's 330 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.440 also something called Sim swapping where, uh, yeah, I'm gonna get a 331 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.640 little crazy on you know, but there is something called Sim slapping where thieves 332 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:48.000 can call your phone company, impersonate you and actually deactivate your Sim Card, 333 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:53.920 get a new one and divert all your phone communications to their phone device, 334 00:26:55.519 --> 00:27:00.799 which means you are capital f screwed. So I would I would leave some 335 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.880 caution out there to the listeners. On a personal life tip is just, 336 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.880 you know, clean up your your digital hygiene if you've been ignoring it for 337 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.799 too long. So well, thanks for spending some time with us on B 338 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:19.759 two B growth and dropping this knowledge on marketing and on being safe out there. 339 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.960 So we need it. Man, come back again see us drop some 340 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.680 more wisdom down the road and uh, appreciate your time. All right, 341 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:44.640 Benji. Thanks man. If you enjoy today's show, hit subscribe for more 342 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.279 marketing goodness. And if you really enjoy today's show, take a second to 343 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.440 rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. 344 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.559 If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting it 345 00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:00.000 to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for Shinning