How to Show Your CEO that ABM is Working with Derek Slayton

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.240 Hey be to be growth listeners. We want to hear from you. In 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:06.080 fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to be tob 3 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:11.759 growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:16.719 to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus the first fifty participants will receive 5 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:21.359 twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. 6 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:28.160 That's be tob growth podcom, letter B number two, letter be growth 7 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:34.079 podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to 8 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:46.560 enter, and look forward to hearing from you conversations from the front lines and 9 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:56.000 marketing. This is be tob growth. This is B tob growth, coming 10 00:00:56.079 --> 00:01:00.240 to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 11 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:06.400 and joining from Nashville, Tennessee Director of growth, Dan Sanchez, and 12 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:11.079 from Louisville, Kentucky, are creative content lead, Emily Brady. Welcome to 13 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.719 Friday show you, guys, and excited to get the chat emily. We 14 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.079 are going to throw it to you today to tell us what you've been looking 15 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:23.599 at Linkedin in the news. What your what are you paying attention to when 16 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.400 it comes to marketing. Yeah, I saw a post this week. Someone 17 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:33.719 had said they are noticing more youtubers joining linkedin and bringing their audiences with them 18 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:40.280 because they've mastered the art of engaging audiences their powerhouse content creators. A lot 19 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:44.159 of people used to see them as like just making motivational videos and now they're 20 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:48.920 kind of gravitating towards Linkedin, which is, you know, more serious in 21 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.879 a lot of ways. So I thought it could be an interesting conversation about 22 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:56.480 if you guys have noticed this trend, noticed more youtubers on Linkedin, what 23 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.640 that means for Linkedin and even like the rise of, you know, more 24 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:07.519 video on Linkedin and content creators as marketers. A lot there. Who Have 25 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.400 you seen, emily, have you seen anyone specifically that your you see on 26 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:15.759 Youtube or know from Youtube? Yeah, well, I honestly I've I don't 27 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:19.680 spend a lot of time on Youtube, so I couldn't say if someone was 28 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:24.240 a youtuber on Linkedin and I know that, I think Daniel on youtube quite 29 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:29.599 a bit consuming content. So I don't know if you've seen this. I'm 30 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.639 looking for, like as you brought it up, I'm looking for the people 31 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:36.319 I know who we're doing this and I have two cases. One was someone 32 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.039 I had been watching on Youtube. His name was Ali Abdal. He's big 33 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:44.120 and productivity, fantastic youtube channel on all things productivity, and he'd kind of 34 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:49.479 started as like he'd focused his channel on students who wanted to get into I 35 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.639 think Oxford's medical school, because he'd already mastered that, and then peep and 36 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:55.800 then students who were in the school and then kind of like leveled, like 37 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.199 broadened out his channel to be about productivity in general. Great Youtuber, but 38 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:04.319 I've noticed he's been stepping up as Linkedin game over the last year because he's 39 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.840 creating original content tailor for Linkedin, usually taking clips of his youtube video and 40 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:13.159 making micro content, but he's putting thoughtful dialog into it and actually engaging on 41 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.919 Youtube, because while a lot of people will syndicate their content and even like 42 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:20.520 customize at a little bit, they're usually not engaging in all the platforms, 43 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.280 which is understandable because it's hard to engage in all platforms. I usually can 44 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:27.280 only engage in one short form channel at the time, which is why I'm 45 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:31.759 committed to Linkedin and not twitter. But he's actually thoughtful engaging in linkedin now 46 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:37.520 I have a feeling he's engaging in multiple platforms because he's trying to grow his 47 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.159 audience and grow the depth of engagement with his audience. Now, on the 48 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:44.680 other hand, there's another creator that I've grown to love his youtube channel. 49 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:49.719 Actually found him first on Linkedin and then accidentally was searching for things that he 50 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.800 was talking about on Youtube. What about securities? Add my identity stolen recently, 51 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:59.960 so I started getting hyper obsessed with like secure email and VPN's and like 52 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:02.120 all that stuff, and he had a he had one of the best channels 53 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:05.520 on the topic, called all things secured. I was watching it and being 54 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:09.800 like, meet a second I freaking know this guy. Like I've had a 55 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:14.639 zoom meeting with Youtuber. We had an about something linkedin related. Then I 56 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:17.199 later went back to his linkedin profile, like, Yep, there's the messages. 57 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.160 We've totally chatted before, and then I we've and I've engaged in multiple 58 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:25.839 of this post before. But he wasn't always talking about the things that he 59 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:29.120 was talking about on Youtube on Linkedin. But he was engaging heavily on linkedin 60 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:31.759 about marketing and Seo and things, but on youtube he was talking about something 61 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:35.120 totally different. I think he actually has multiple youtube channels. But since then, 62 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:38.920 I now I'm engaging with them on both platforms and he's probably the only 63 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.199 youtuber actually comment on, partly because I know him and he knows me. 64 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:46.079 So we have a little bit of a relationship there. And now the the 65 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.720 engagements growing. So I think more youtubers are I think you're right. I 66 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:53.839 think more youtubers are getting on to Linkedin Mass I think because Gary v's telling 67 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:57.720 them to. I imagine the audience for them is different on Youtube and Linkedin. 68 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.560 Or do you think are they bringing their audience to Linkedin or they trying 69 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.959 to find a new audience on Linkedin? I think Ali AB doll is trying 70 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:10.360 to grow his audience by being more intentional with other platforms. I think Josh 71 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:15.000 probably had already been active on linkedin heat and running probably a freelance business while 72 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:18.120 he gets his youtube business going. So I think he had two different things 73 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:21.199 going on and now they're starting to blend more and more as he's promoting some 74 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:25.920 of his old things secured on Linkedin. Do you think they'll have the same 75 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:29.959 success on Linkedin that they've had on youtube, or have you seen that? 76 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:34.000 I don't think so. Alli a doll has massive success on Youtube, but 77 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:39.079 and less and less you can be that focus on linkedin. It'd be hard, 78 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:43.600 yeah, it would just be hard to he'd have to really hammer linkedin 79 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.800 and I think a single creator can only invest so much in one platform, 80 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.920 which is why even Geary v, the master of managing all, all all 81 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:56.399 social channels, can only hit linkedin so hard. He doesn't post that often 82 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:59.000 and he doesn't engage much in the platform. Of course he's trying to be 83 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.000 everywhere, so he can only engaged so much as so many platforms, but 84 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:06.079 he won't be. He doesn't get it nearly M as much engagement on Linkedin 85 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:10.639 as some of the smaller creators like Chris Walker Jed whilsh are all in on 86 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:14.399 Linkedin, but I don't think you have to, and I think that's what's 87 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:18.360 interesting about even the post that you're referencing, emily, and I think when 88 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.160 I think so, I don't have a youtube example. I have a tick 89 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:27.000 tock example. Jat Barnett. He does he's an advisor for B Toc Brands. 90 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.120 He started one of the first tick tock houses ever where he got a 91 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:35.720 bunch of creators together and they just started creating content for brands. He has 92 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:43.079 eight thousand five hundred followers on Linkedin. He actually looking at his post right 93 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.639 now scrolling it. He doesn't repost almost I haven't seen one ticktock video that 94 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.600 he reposts. It's almost all written form content. But when I'm referencing the 95 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:56.800 post that you're talking about, it says the new narrative will be they have 96 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:01.879 mastered the art of engaging audiences. They have built substantial or substainable businesses out 97 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:06.120 of this and they are powerhouse content creators. You only have to be on 98 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:13.879 Linkedin in some capacity and proof of concept on whatever platform you're trying to own. 99 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:17.600 So you have all these people coming to linkedin and just creating something so 100 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:23.519 that they have a presence in essentially the business world and they have a page 101 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:28.680 that people can find them on right but they're not pouring all their time, 102 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:33.399 energy and effort in. I think specifically with this example of JT Barnett, 103 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:39.199 if he posted his content on linkedin that he's posting on Ticktock, it would 104 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:44.560 work. It's very business focused, it's very creator focused. It's a lot 105 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.720 of marketing mindset stuff and I love engaging with it. Over on Tick Tock. 106 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:53.000 I don't know what his thoughts are on the strategy he's I'm reading some 107 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.800 of his posts and they look they look great. There's stuff that I would 108 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:59.560 I would still pay attention to, but he's pretty engaging in a video format 109 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.040 and I don't know. I think this translates well, but it does come 110 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:09.439 back to like what medium are you trying to own and do you have to 111 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.519 really post all the time on Linkedin in order to be successful? Not Really. 112 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:18.600 If you already have your youtube audience, you just do some stuff and 113 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.680 even if the audience is much smaller, it's a point of reference. Now 114 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.079 it absolutely works to syndicate it and create original content. Is it as much 115 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.360 as you can get out of the platform? No, you can get more, 116 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:33.039 but at the same time there's diminishing returns with everything. To get to 117 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:35.279 the top, though, you usually have to go all in on one or 118 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.879 two platforms, like Alie I'm bald it with Youtube. He went all in 119 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.519 on Youtube. It's paying out now he's it's kind of like finance, right, 120 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.679 you don't get rich from diversification. Usually get rich from one thing, 121 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:50.279 one business, one really successful crypto currency. Right, you get rich from 122 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.080 one thing but then to keep your which is or to keep that attention, 123 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.159 you diversify across multiple things. I want more your thoughts on only, I 124 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:01.919 mean your yes, you're in the not as much in the youtube space, 125 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:07.080 but you're fully in the Creator space and you're you're on Tick Tock. I 126 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:11.279 wonder, like what your thoughts are there, even with the transfer of how 127 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:15.039 your content works on Tick Tock verse then you bring it over to Linkedin, 128 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:18.480 like there's a lot there that. I feel like our roads that are you 129 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.759 have to at least be thinking about, you know, in great capacity. 130 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.000 Well, it's interesting because, I mean, I know it's different with Youtube, 131 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:28.360 but with Tick Tock I'm actually using my tick tock to grow my audience 132 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:33.399 on Linkedin. So I have like a very small following on Tick Tock, 133 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.879 but when I repost those videos on to Linkedin, because it's I think, 134 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:41.039 because it's such a hot topic right now in bb I get so many comments 135 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:46.879 on those and I also get a ton of new followers just from those videos. 136 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.639 So and I don't know if it's the novelty of it or people want 137 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.000 to be more entertained and Linkedin is kind of looking the same these days. 138 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.240 But that's been my experience. So I don't I like what you guys are 139 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.559 saying about you have to go in on one platform and I think that definitely 140 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.000 applies to youtube. But with Tick Tock I found it to be kind of 141 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:11.720 the other way around the thing. But Tick Tock is I think it's kind 142 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.399 of a weird thing that linkedin has this fascination with tick tock right now and 143 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:20.000 that's why it's working to create tick tocks, but really it's for Linkedin right 144 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:26.360 and anything you get from Tick Tock is just gravy. I hope that we 145 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:33.240 see like people try different things things over time on on Linkedin. But if 146 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:39.440 you're already a youtube creator and or you're already a massive tick Tocker, there 147 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:46.080 doesn't seem to be a ton of incentive to pour your effort into linkedin specific 148 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:52.000 like just for as a creative content engine. Like I'm gonna do that. 149 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.759 It does make sense for Chris Walker. It does make sense for those more 150 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:00.799 in that be to be like podcasting space, microvideos and that sort of thing 151 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:05.399 on linkedin. But I would love to see continued variety and we'll just see 152 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.279 where it goes over time. I think it'll be something to keep an eye 153 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.279 on and maybe come back to as I want to look up more youtubers to 154 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.120 that. I'm like, this would be applicable in a bet to be space, 155 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.320 because I don't tend to go to youtube for that because my linkedin content 156 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.600 is so curated into the bet be marketing specific space and that's what I get 157 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.799 in that feed. Anyway, I think there's a lot to be learned from 158 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.840 youtubers who are coming on to Linkedin, and same for people on Tick Tock 159 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.279 who are putting their content on linkedin. There's a lot we can learn from 160 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:43.799 them as content creators, and so that's why I think this, this wave 161 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:48.440 is so interesting. Like I love following that kind of content and learning from 162 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:54.960 it. So fascinating conversation and another good little round table discussion here before we 163 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:58.679 jump to a full episode. It's Friday, which means it's time for a 164 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:03.919 thorough that conversation. Enjoyed this one. Welcome back to be tob growth. 165 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.519 I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. Today I'm joined by Derek S Layton. 166 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.000 He is the chief marketing officer over at Terminus Derik. How's it going 167 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.080 today, man, it's great. Logan thanks for having on. Excited to 168 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:16.960 to do this with you guys. Absolutely it is great to meet you. 169 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.399 We are obviously big fans of the terminus team. We've had Sangram as as 170 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.840 a regular guest on the podcast here. That Guy Sangram got it. Yeah, 171 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.919 that Guy Sangram. We Love them around here. We talked about them 172 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.399 a lot. So it's great to meet more of the terminus team and to 173 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.879 have you on today. We're going to be talking about some of the key 174 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:41.120 areas where BB marketing is lacking today and and what marketers can really do about 175 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.679 it to address some of those areas of lack. Before we get into it, 176 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.240 and I would love for you to provide listeners with a little bit of 177 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.240 background on on yourself and what you in the team at terminus or up to 178 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.039 these days. Yeah, glad to I run marketing at terminus. I've been 179 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.159 with the company for about a year and a half. I've got a big 180 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.600 background, I guess. Lots of time spent in product and corporate marketing. 181 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:07.000 Rolls across me to be companies primarily, and technology SASS companies, and I've 182 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.759 kind of lived through the evolution of of marketing as a as a cost center 183 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.480 to marketing as a revenue driver and joined terminus because I just believe in this 184 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:22.039 account based saying as a practitioner and it was super exciting to join a company 185 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:24.799 to not only practice ABM but also help others practice it as it kind of 186 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.879 becomes just a better way to do be to be marketing. And for those 187 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.759 that don't know who terminus is, I'm sorry because I'm not doing my job. 188 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:39.279 But as as a brief hector hop we are an account based marketing platform. 189 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:43.279 We help customers kind of pick the right segments of the market, target 190 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:48.320 the right accounts and then engage with those accounts through creative messages that bring them 191 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.480 into your pipeline. The things we do that are kind of different. One 192 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:56.000 is we aggregate data, so your own data plus third party data, plus 193 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:58.279 a bunch of intents and signal data out in the wild, and help you 194 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.840 put that all to use pretty easily. We own the point of engagement, 195 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:07.919 so we're very good at getting messages through display ads, emails and other channels 196 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.320 to those target audiences and then we really do a solid job of measuring results 197 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:18.240 at an account level and being account centric and helping you tell your bosses where 198 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.759 account based marketing is driving results and how your programs are performing. So that's 199 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.919 what we do. That's actually what I do too as a marketer. M 200 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.320 So I kind of have a bit of a Meta thing going on. Yeah, 201 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.840 personally, but but yeah, that's me and term it us in a 202 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:35.679 nutshell. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I love hearing any time where someone 203 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.639 is an advocate for for a brand and then, you know, is able 204 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.639 to join the team. I just think that's such a recipe for some magic 205 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:48.080 things to happen. Then you guys have have some great things going on over 206 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.840 there at terminus. You know, Derek, as you and I were talking 207 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.240 a little bit offlined, you mentioned this distinction. We talk a lot about 208 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:58.480 sales and marketing alignment on the show. I think it's some of the episodes 209 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.159 that get a lot of engagement because it is a buzzword and has been for 210 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.320 a little bit. You kind of push against that, that phrase a little 211 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.240 bit and in push for a shift in thinking about this. Tell us a 212 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.200 little bit about that, man. Yeah. Well, I appreciate the question 213 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:15.919 and we work chatting about it beforehand. Logan, I just feel like this 214 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:20.679 alignment thing has been beating to death and and everybody kind of has a Kumbaya 215 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:22.120 about it. But but what does it really mean? I actually think sales 216 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.720 and marketing need to be more integrated than a Ligne. And you know, 217 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:28.960 when I think about how I work with my cro at terminus, it's very 218 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.600 much a arm in arm thing versus a I'm going to carry it this far 219 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:35.399 and then I'm going to pass it to you and you're going to carry it 220 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.279 that far kind of thing. And alignment is really about managing the handoff. 221 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.000 Integration is really about we're on a journey and my team is going to be 222 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.840 primary here and your team's going to be secondary, and then we're going to 223 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.600 switch and you're going to be primary and we're going to be secondary, and 224 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:50.759 maybe it's some points we're both going to be secondary and somebody else is going 225 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.559 to come in. We're going to make sure that happens. So it's really 226 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.080 I we talked a lot about integration of sales and marketing, and I'm not 227 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.320 talking about organizationally, although I think sometimes that maybe where people end up, 228 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:06.679 but it's really just about the mindset of we both own this, this mission, 229 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.919 and the success or failure this mission is on both of our shoulders and 230 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.000 it's not a you know, I've done my part. When it gets to 231 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.480 this point alignment kind of conversation. Yeah, I think that's a really good 232 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.320 point, dirt, because alignment means, you know, to take your analogy 233 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.279 of running on the track is we're in the same lane, but I'm still 234 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.200 handing it off to you when my part is done, and now I'm expecting 235 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.559 you to take that art, which is better than running in opposite lanes or 236 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:36.480 just, you know, exacting across the field. Right when you're running arm 237 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.960 and arm. There are parts that you know, especially with abm, where 238 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.480 sales does something, then marketing then and there's this mixture of the the activities 239 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.720 together, as opposed to one segment then the next segment handled by these function 240 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:53.559 and, like you said, that can lead to different organizational structures or, 241 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.799 you know, other sorts of sales and marketing motions. But I think the 242 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:02.200 overall shift in mentality is of is an important one at first and some that 243 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:03.920 you guys talk about a lot. Derek, as far as you know, 244 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:10.119 we're marketing is lacking in the support of sales. Has Actually been this focus 245 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:11.880 on the number of leads. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, 246 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.480 I mean I think that's the whole and people probably heard this, you 247 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.799 know, a bit from other sources as well. It's the whole concept of 248 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.759 lead base marketing versus account based marketing. And we sell to accounts and there 249 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.119 people wot account that we sell to. In a buying committee. We need 250 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:30.119 to be aware of and get our message too. But at the end of 251 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.759 the day, when we're measuring success and in form fills and lead metrics, 252 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.039 you know, for be to be companies, that just doesn't Mesh well with 253 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.960 with how sales is trying to get their job done. And I think if 254 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.960 you're if you're super focused on a lead volume and leaves as that Baton Pass, 255 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.240 then then you've got a huge challenge and really having an efficient sales and 256 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:56.039 marketing engine. And and that's really what the account based, account based whatever 257 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:59.880 marketing, sale, go to market is all about. And I think the 258 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.319 the devil's in the details, all right, looking like if you're going to 259 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.599 go down that path, then you got to shift your mindset about how do 260 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:08.519 you do the work and how do you measure the work, because companies, 261 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.279 you know, I think marketers really relished, you know, ten years ago 262 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.119 when we could sign up for a number and that number was just measured in 263 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.440 leads. Yeah, we got out of the you know, red balloons or 264 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.480 blue balloons kind of decision into the how are you actually going to affect a 265 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.200 number for the company? Right problem is we picked a number that, at 266 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.240 the end of the day, isn't as relevant to success as it could be. 267 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.519 And I think now we're trying to get out of jail a bit, 268 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:34.799 yeah, from the decision. So yeah, I mean, and I think 269 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:40.839 it goes to the alignment or integration with sales. I've heard Sangrum say, 270 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:45.119 you know, companies don't have lead executives, they have account executives. I've 271 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.720 heard John Barrows say, you know, I kind of called bs on, 272 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.759 you know, marketing needing to be account based, like sales has always been 273 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.880 a count based. So if you're going to be aligned, then that should 274 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:59.119 just be the way that it, that it goes. You touched on something 275 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:00.920 they're you know, Derek, that I want to I want to get into 276 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.160 and that's some of the how you know, we talked about some of these 277 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.839 things here on the show and I think even marketers who are already there and 278 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.519 say Yep, I see a lot of the Stalue, but I don't know 279 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.119 how to make that shift and and one of the shifts that they're likely going 280 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.960 to have to navigate is having a conversation with their CEO about the shift, 281 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.559 about what it looks like to change in what they're measured by. Tell us 282 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.119 a little bit about, you know, maybe what marketers can do in those 283 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.759 early conversations to get buy in from the rest of the executive team and especially 284 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.720 the CEO. Yeah, I mean I think what what companies talk about at 285 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.079 the executive table all the time is we know what success looks like, but 286 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.680 what are the leading indicators to whether we're going to succeed or not? And 287 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.799 that's pretty well defined in in sales right, it's pipeline, generally waited out, 288 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.720 way to pipeline, those kind of metrics, and in marketing the proxy 289 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.720 has been leads right, and there was always this mathematical equation where you tried 290 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:57.440 to figure out what your conversion rate from lead to pipeline to revenue was going 291 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:02.000 to be. And what we've seen is that has just fundamentally broken down in 292 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.480 terms of the equation in in trying to marry up the relevance of a lead 293 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:11.079 to assign customer. So really, when you think about an account based scorecard, 294 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.279 how do you, as a marketer, make the CEO understand that marketing 295 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.000 is now going to be measured on a better leading indicator to pipeline? Then 296 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.039 leads are and if you have that conversation with your CEO, like look, 297 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:27.160 we need to continue to drive further away from success and understand what the leading 298 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:33.599 indicators of success will be so we can manage expectations, resource alignment, staffing, 299 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.680 all that stuff. And when you start looking at measuring marketing on a 300 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.400 better leading indicator and you're talking to your CEO about I have a better idea 301 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.559 to give you a better leading indicator to how well I'm performing. Is a 302 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.160 team, then I think your CEO is going to be like great, let's 303 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.160 do that, because I'm tired of having the lead conversion argument between sales marketing 304 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.400 and for us, you know, it's engagement, like so, within my 305 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:03.000 target market segments, how well am I engaging accounts at an account level such 306 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.079 that they will turn into pipeline at a, you know, at a better 307 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.480 rate? And so really that is that's the way to have. In my 308 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:12.640 experience, and having done it a few times and also having worked with we 309 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:17.559 have hundreds of customers that are going through this, this journey as well, 310 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:21.799 and seeing what what ones of them are more successful or less successful in getting 311 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:26.160 their company to embrace this concept. It's really it's really around thinking about it 312 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.720 in that in that mindset. I really like that as as someone who's gone 313 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.319 through the for disciplines of execution or for DX is. People know that that 314 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.680 model by you know. It is something that struck me there is that it's 315 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.599 very common for people to get hung up on lag measures, which is, 316 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.559 you know, for folks who aren't familiar with that methodology, as you talk 317 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.839 about what we know success looks like, but the devil in the details is 318 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.960 what are the leading indicators? And so I like the way that you put 319 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.039 that the lead measures or the leading indicators that are going to be a better 320 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:03.319 predictor of success and that that's the right way to have that conversation you mentioned. 321 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:06.559 From there then starting to build out. Okay, how are we going 322 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:10.640 to measure? ARE BUILDING OUT OUR ABM score card. What advice do you 323 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:12.920 have for folks in getting started there, once they get some minitial by and 324 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.319 dirt yeah, I mean I'm a vender here. So just a quick warning, 325 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:19.160 right. We have a solution that helps with this stuff and we do 326 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:22.599 it every day with our customers. So if you haven't checked it out, 327 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.759 please do. But I really actually think it's it's comical to me that, 328 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:33.640 as a marketing leader, like what is my what is my dashboard for success? 329 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.920 And we have this conversation on internally. You know, it's not marketing 330 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:41.480 automation, right, it just isn't. It's pipeline, reporting and sales force 331 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.799 for us. And so when we start looking in an account based platform, 332 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:49.279 it's how can we believe that marketing is delivering on on numbers? And that 333 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.880 is really in measuring. These are my market segments. I'm identifying these segments 334 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:59.039 based on this data and we agree that these are the best indicators of the 335 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:03.400 best markets for us to put resources behind. And then I'm going to measure 336 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.920 at an account level how well we're moving the needle of getting that account to 337 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.559 being, you know, aware and interested in what we do, and those 338 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:17.720 are measurable things. Our solution helps you do that. We me personally uses 339 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:21.920 that internally. But I think if you're if you're going to go down this 340 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:26.759 journey, you got to buy a platform that helps you do it like so 341 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.400 so. In Our business we talk a lot about what makes us different from 342 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.920 a couple of the other folks that are in the account based platform space, 343 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.960 and really I'm not that interested in differentiating what we do from some of the 344 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.960 other folks because we all do a pretty good job. There's some different stuff 345 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.119 that we do that other folks do. What I need the market to understand 346 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.079 is it if you were going to do this, you've actually got to make 347 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:53.640 a decision to to acquire the capability to do it right, or else you're 348 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.240 going to you're going to spin, yeah, and you're going to end up 349 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.799 back in like well, we can measure leads, go back to leads. 350 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:04.559 Yeah, what are not saying by technology for Technology Sake, but understand that 351 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:11.400 the current technology set that we all bought five to seven years ago actually doesn't 352 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.119 support an account centric market plan, and and you need one to if you're 353 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.359 going to do it. What are some of those areas in either putting together 354 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.599 the plan, putting together the right resources or the expectations? You know, 355 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.759 no matter what platform someone's using, where you see people consistently miss the mark 356 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:33.279 and they don't give themselves enough in the beginning stages for success, let alone 357 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.039 sustained success there. Yeah, well, I think a lot of it is 358 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:40.680 a lot of it is just picking your how you're going to roll this out. 359 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.119 So I need to focus on for this part of our business. We 360 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:47.599 are going to make this decision. We're going to shift our structure to be 361 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.839 focused on accounts, we're going to drive account based methodologies to penetrate those accounts, 362 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.880 we're going to measure our success against those accounts and just being really practical 363 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.079 and transparent and how you're going to how big of a bite you're going to 364 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.640 take off, and then now you're going to measure that success. And I 365 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.559 think you know, partnering with sales, partnering with Account Development or sales development, 366 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.480 whatever you call that function which makes the marketing or mason sales, and 367 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.960 understanding the expectations in the process and then just committing to it. What I've 368 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:22.279 seen people fail with more frequently than than not is being overly transactional and how 369 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:25.160 they do it like we're going to run this and then we're going to measure 370 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.880 it in five weeks and if we're not seeing success, we're going to question 371 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:33.599 ourselves, like nothing wins more than consistency and you can't control the timing of 372 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.960 your buyer as much as you might think you'd like to. Yeah, so, 373 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.720 absolutely. So you know, you know they're the right accounts. They 374 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:45.680 will eventually have a propensity to purchase from you, but it may not be 375 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:49.440 tomorrow and that's there's a lot of factors you can't control on that equation. 376 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:53.119 But you need to say persistent and being in their mind so that when they 377 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.799 either are close to ready or become ready, and maybe you can accelerate that 378 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.359 a bit, then they reach out to you or they are receptive to something 379 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.039 where you're reaching out to them. But you can't just assume that they're not 380 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.559 the right account because they're not engaging. They probably are the right account but 381 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:10.759 they got a bunch of stuff going on. I just acquired a company. 382 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:14.559 They just brought in a new VP of whatever. Like. There's stuff that 383 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.359 goes up, things that you know. As someone who's been in BB sales 384 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.279 for ten plus years, you just know those sort of things and you you 385 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.359 know to kind of account for those sorts of things from a sales perspective and 386 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.079 I think marketing. Putting on that Lens as well makes thanks a lot of 387 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.319 sense. I mean it's very much in line with how we're talking with marketers 388 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.880 about podcasting. You know it. Oh, can we do three podcast episodes 389 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.359 over three months and then measure success? Right? No, consistency is the 390 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.279 key in these sorts of things that take a bigger shift a longer time, 391 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.759 whether that's brand building and thought leadership with a podcast, for making a shift 392 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:53.759 to and ABM model, these sorts of things definitely take time. You mentioned 393 00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:57.759 something there, Derek, that you know it's crucial to give it time to 394 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:03.279 play out because you know that you're targeting the right accounts. Are there's some 395 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.240 some areas of advice you could give to marketers that are just starting out in 396 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.920 this area of account selection where maybe you see some common fitballs or you have 397 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.680 some repeatable advice that you're giving to folks so that they can kind of have 398 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:19.480 a little bit more assurance and a little bit more trust in the process as 399 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.960 they look to build consistency over time and look for the long term results. 400 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:26.799 Yeah, I mean this is we could probably talk for two hours about this 401 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.839 subject, Logan, so I'll try to be concise. I think we're finally 402 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:36.279 coming around to like better understanding the connection between brand and demand and I think 403 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:40.759 if you're going to be successful in account based it's really being cognizant of how 404 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:48.200 you're going to measure brand marketing in its ability to drive engagement demand. And 405 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:53.519 for too long, because we've been so focused on kind of resultspace marketing, 406 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:59.640 our brand experience has been click Baiti right in B tobs. We're looking for 407 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.759 in is like I just want to put that message out that's going to get 408 00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:04.920 someone to download the White Paper, or I'm just going to whatever. It's 409 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:11.319 a green button versus a blue button, or it's it's some wording around free 410 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.559 right where it be to be. We've just been so caught up in how 411 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:19.759 do I drive my response race from zero for four to point zero, six, 412 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.720 five right. And you got to you got to remove all that and 413 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:27.559 be able to measure. I'm putting a great brand experience in front of these 414 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:33.759 accounts. I'm going to reach them through digital ads and digital experiences, but 415 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.079 I'm not going to actually measure their clicks, because nobody actually clicks right. 416 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:44.720 Eventually they engage and they engage over their own process, which is seeing your 417 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.160 brand promise in a great add that's creative and touches on a pain point they 418 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:55.880 have, in getting an email from your company that identifies you know what their 419 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.680 biggest problem is and how you can help solve that, and then seeing you 420 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.839 at an event and having the people in the booth be able to communicate the 421 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.799 value proposition of what you do as it relates to their problem, and then, 422 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.480 at the magic moment, being on your website and filling out I want 423 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.720 to see a demo, right, and so like you have to think about 424 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.279 how you're going to measure the account in total as opposed to the channel of 425 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.920 engagement you're trying to drive, and for us that's just a critical, critical 426 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.480 thing that you have to think about. And if you don't, and you're 427 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.359 just trying to measure the channel effectiveness, then you get this click baty thing, 428 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.640 which is just it's mine. I mean it does two things. It 429 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.240 gives us a false perception of reality because we like to picture this, you 430 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.720 know, buyer journey a lot more linear than it than it actually is, 431 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.559 and in this silo channel, and that's not the case. It's it's across 432 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.160 all these channels of engagement, online and offline. And then it also just 433 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:52.640 leads us to well, if we can't tie this back to, you know, 434 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.640 a specific conversion metric and a tribute leads to it, then it's not 435 00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:02.599 worth it. And it it's, you know, demangin and brand kind of 436 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.119 at odds with each other. I see people talking about a podcast and struggling 437 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.240 with this. Well, we don't have the email addresses in the demographics of 438 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.000 every podcast listener where, you know, my pushback is, well, does 439 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:17.279 it matter if you are drawing people in with content that's not click baby but 440 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.640 is actually delivering value? Isn't that what inbound martianing, as you know, 441 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.839 on our shift to content, has been all about that we build a brand 442 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:32.319 and put out content that attracts people, doesn't ensnare them or trick them with 443 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.119 with Click Bait, and so I think it. I get passionate on that 444 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.559 a bit and I think there's there's some alignment between you and II. There 445 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:41.319 there, Derek, but this has been a great conversation. Man. You 446 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:44.359 hit on really three things that I kind of jotted down, you know, 447 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.960 having the conversation with your CEO and your executive team framed around this idea that 448 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:53.559 I think we can have a better leading indicator for success and then to setting 449 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.440 the expectations that if we resource this correctly and we get our heads around at 450 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:03.440 the right way, a shift to an account based everything, it can sustain 451 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.599 success. But it's going to take a little bit of time and then three 452 00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:10.960 looking at brandon demand, working together and not being at it at odds with 453 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.240 each other. You know, some mental shifts that can inform some some practical 454 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.839 applications. Any other thoughts you want to leave folks with today as we wrap 455 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.400 up? Derek, no, I mean I think you touched on on kind 456 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:23.440 of the highlights there, so well done, Logan. I think he hit 457 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:27.200 on a lot of good points. I think the the other concept is just 458 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:32.240 think about having a conversation with your your head of sales about how we're going 459 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.759 to be better integrated versus just aligne. And I think you know just from 460 00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:37.559 I'm a marketing guy, so why? I believe the words matter and I 461 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:42.160 think that just puts the right context around how you want a partner with sales. 462 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.200 However, your company is organized across marketing, Business Development, sales customer 463 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:53.160 success. How can we be better integrated in delivering a customer experience that we're 464 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:56.920 proud of, and wouldn't it be great if we if all our customers were 465 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.480 great customers? Right? That's that's really what we're trying to get to here 466 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:07.119 because Abso, you know, more people are measuring success based on LTV versus, 467 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.880 you know, for you know, the transaction, which is great, 468 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:14.960 and it's a subscription economy, I'm told. So it's only getting more for 469 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.240 that too, somewhere. Right. I'm with you, Derek. Awesome and 470 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:21.599 well, Hey, this has been a great conversation. I'm sure that folks 471 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.319 listening to this are likely going to have some followup questions or going to want 472 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.720 to stay connected with you, Derek. What's the best way for them to 473 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.000 reach out stay connected with you in the terms team in? Yeah, well, 474 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:34.279 they can check us out on our website, terminuscom. That's what we'll 475 00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.880 attribute everything to. Inbound. If you do that and and you can hit 476 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.440 me up on twitter at dericks lat or on Linkedin, I'm easily findable. 477 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.880 They're awesome and if you're a big fan of this show, you're likely going 478 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:51.079 to love flip my funnel as well. So find that wherever podcasts are sold. 479 00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.839 In addition to following Derek and going to terminuscom Derek has been a great 480 00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:58.240 conversation man. Thanks so much. Yeah, thanks, look, it was 481 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:13.400 great. Really appreciate it. If you enjoyed a day show, hit subscribe 482 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.880 for more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoyed a day show, take 483 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.839 a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it 484 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.039 on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love 485 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:28.680 by texting it to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening 486 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:30.039 and thanks for sharing.