Transcript
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Yeah,
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All right, Welcome everyone. This is
our first of what we're going to start
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doing a weekly BtB podcasting Q and a
inspired by chris walker state of
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demand jin. We've got some questions
that have come in from that email that
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I sent this morning and so we'll just
start diving in and answering some of
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those Logan. Do you want to kick it off
while I'm letting more people in the
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waiting room? But since we only have 30
minutes, I want to go ahead and jump in.
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Do you want to kick it off with the
first question and then uh, and then we
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can, we can get from there. Yeah,
absolutely. So thanks everybody that's
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already hopped on. And just for some
context, if you have a follow up
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question or you have a question, you
weren't able to submit before this call,
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James dan and myself will be keeping an
eye on the chat so you feel free to pop
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those in and then we'll be kind of
looking through those prioritizing. We
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might call on you to hey, if you want
to add some context to this question or
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just read the question out. This first
one that we had was, how can I make the
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case to leadership at my company that a
podcast is going to be successful and
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how should we, how should we gauge
success dan. Recorded a video on this
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that has been super helpful recently. I
think that there are, there are two
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ways that I'm consistently advising our
customers on this front. One that your
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podcast is a double edged sword. Uh, it
is not just about the reach, but
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because a podcast is generally an
interview based format, you need guests.
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And if a good portion of those guests
or people who fit your buyer persona,
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they're not just the people that your
buyers want to hear from. You can build
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relationships with those guests that
map to revenue. So think you're a B. M.
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Play mixed with your content place. So
keeping an eye on how many guests
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relationships are turning into revenue.
Either from those folks buying from you
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or those folks referring their friends
or those folks sharing that content and
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then one of their peers then then
coming inbound as well as the reach.
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Now on the reach side, we don't have a
ton of information with podcasting,
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right? You don't get the email
addresses, You don't get the granular
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information that you do with, say a
webinar or something like that because
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it is undated, top of funnel content.
But one thing I've been encouraging a
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lot of the marketing leaders we work
with to share with their executive
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teams is on average, people tend to
listen to most of every podcast episode
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that they listen to. And granular early.
If you have a podcast You can go into
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your analytics and apple and look at
what is the play through rate and apple
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will actually total it up. So you're
getting 200 downloads of an episode and
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your average play through rate is 80
and the episode length is about 30
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minutes. All of a sudden comparing that
total time consumed, which you get into
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hours and hours very quickly with that
math and won't try and do any math live
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but comparing that to the time spent
with your content in other channels. So
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not just impressions but total
consumption that can put the podcast
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Really stack it up against your other
channels and your other efforts to
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really compare apples to apples versus
yeah 5000 views of this tweet and 200
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downloads of this podcast episode. The
smaller number might actually be having
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a bigger impact with that. I'll turn it
over to Dan. Anything you would add to
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that man. Only in tracking attribution,
you can usually find the podcast can be
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influential when you're actually asking
customers, Oh, how did you find us? And
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what was this journey like for you?
Like if you're asking customers when
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they first sign on with you, what was
their journey like? That's where you
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can start to look for the podcast and
how I prove the podcast is helpful and
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relevant. It's not usually coming up on
first touch attribution reports, right?
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Hubspot isn't can't see it. Uh if there
is anything like hubspot can't see it
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at all. Unless you have maybe like a
some kind of special you are all you're
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sending podcast listeners too. So where
it does come up is when you actually
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talk to them and actually kind of
breaking down their journeys and that's
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where I like to prove that the podcast
is a major part of that journey only
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because consumption of podcast is so
deep. Like Logan said, if you compare
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apples to apples, blog to podcast, 30
minutes consumed on a podcast is a lot
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different than three minutes read on a
blog post, it's 10 x. The amount of
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consumption which is much deeper. And
when I'm thinking about the success of
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my content marketing, I'm usually
looking at consumption metrics like
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that. So I don't look, I try to compare
it per minutes consumed when I'm trying
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to compare it to like linkedin or blogs.
When I'm trying to compare apples to
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apples with other content marketing
channels, Shannon just dropped a
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comment here in the chat. She said if
you put podcast episodes on landing
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pages, you can use engagement with the
content as well. I don't want to put
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you on the spot, Shannon, but if you
want to elaborate there, but I know we
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talked about this in our growth group,
I think it was earlier this week or
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late last week. Do you want to expand
on that at all? Yeah. Hi everybody,
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there's a lot of people here. Good job
guys. Yeah. So we've actually cut down
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our publishing cadence and actually
spent more time on really high value
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episodes that are targeted at our
landing spots for our business. And
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what we've been able to do is when we
have a great expert that really aligns
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very well to a persona or to a landing
spot, we find a place on one of our key
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pillar pages to place that episode,
usually a video link. So either embed
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of Wisteria, I think is what we're
using and were able to track engagement
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with that content. So whether if it's
produced significantly more engagement
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than the page historically getting, but
we're using it as definitely like our
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demand team is using a lot more than I
ever originally anticipated when we
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launched the podcast. So yeah, it's
been really cool and super repurpose
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able. I know someone said that to so
small snippets, we can put that in the
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carousel were starting to think of it
as like the more time we spend on each
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episode, thinking of it as more like
pillar content unless like blog content
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and it's proven pretty successful.
That's for awesome, Shannon, thanks for
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sharing that. Our next question we got
from Peter Murphy Lewis, I think I saw
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him jump on earlier actually, um but he
emailed this in before we started one
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of his questions and we get this a lot.
He's the best practices for sharing and
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distributing like private facebook
groups, niche communities, Harrow,
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we've created a lot of content around
this and dan is actually our director
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of audience growth so he lives and
breathes this stuff, dan. Do you want
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to take the first stab at the answer to
this one? Yeah, I mean in A B two B
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play, like Lincoln becomes the best
discovery platform for podcasting. I
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can make a case for other social
networks. Probably twitter would be my
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next favorite. But if you're doing B
two B Lincoln's where it's at, like
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Lincoln as if you've been listening to
Gary V, like he's been talking about
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how linkedin is a lot, like how
facebook used to be back in 2012, right?
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There's just an unfair advantage in
just the organic content. How far it
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can go? So sharing and splintering your
podcast content on the linked in and
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putting the link specifically in the
comments and not in the post itself is
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probably the single best way to get
traction for a b two B podcast right
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now. Beyond that, I almost like to
think of having like a main Discovery
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channel, like linkedin and then having
all my secondary ones, which I kind of
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just automate, unless I'm just gonna
put a lot of effort into it, I'd
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probably put it in your, like, your,
your hoot suite, your hubspot social,
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your buffers and just kind of like buff
them all out. Normally those are
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channels are not putting a lot of
effort into, but I'm essentially
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syndicating there and that's how I
treat most other social channels.
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Unless I wanted to put the effort into
going all in which for us is linked in
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maybe someday, twitter. Michael
Hartmann here had a question of audio
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only or video as you're breaking up
your podcast into those micro pieces of
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content and this is something rob
common on our team and a few other team
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members on our internal slack. We're
asking about this because we had a
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similar customer question. We see a lot
of, a lot of things out there with what
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we call those audio grams. Right? You
go to click on, it looks like a video
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and it might have a moving wave form or
it might have subtitles come up and my
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take on that is it's better than
nothing. If you're doing that, you're
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posting something to drive people back
to your podcast is definitely better
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than nothing. So I won't say you just
don't do that. Complete waste of time.
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But if you can develop a process for
creating micro video clips where the
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guest or the host face is nice and
large. I saw SAm gave a thumbs up to
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video over audio here. Sam Moss, if you
look at his linkedin feed, I see his
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videos in my feet very consistently.
Those micro video clips just
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consistently perform better than audio
only. And so some people might say,
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well, Logan you guys are a podcast
agency. You're saying audio only isn't
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isn't the best, shouldn't you? You know,
just always be saying that. But it's
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about the context, right? When you're
scrolling linked in or instagram for
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that matter, you're looking for
something to actively engage with. And
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part of the reason why audio only is
powerful is in those times where you're
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looking to passively consume walking
the dog doing the dishes where you're
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listening to audio only. And so video
fits that context in that mode of
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consumption that your potential buyers
are in when they're on social and so
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that's part of the reason. Plus just
seeing from a lot of our customers that
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say micro video clips, whether we're
producing them or they're doing them
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themselves are one of the top
performing social media assets, not
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just out of their podcast content, but
across all of their social content. So
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that's why we're big proponents of
recording audio and video at the same
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time and then using them strategically
when you're going to go audio only and
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when you're going, yeah, riverside
being a great platform, we're obviously
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doing this on zoom, but riverside is a
great platform that lets you capture
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higher quality video. So those videos
end up looking better. The others were
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also building, we're in the midst of
building a product right now that does
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automatic clipping for micro videos so
you can, you'll be able to, it should
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launch in mid May. I was just talking
to the development team right before we
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jumped on here, but we're so passionate
about this, We're building an entire
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tool that allows you to upload your
video podcast interview and then if
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it's a 30 minute interview, it's going
to spit out, hey here, eight potential
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clips that you could use. And so as
we're getting closer and closer to it
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will obviously be talking about that
more. But super passionate about video
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Ryan had a Ryan. Lanigan had a great
question. He said, I assume ranking in
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Apple charts helps with new listeners
as well as linkedin content snippets.
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What does Apple look at when they're
deciding who to put into the top 10
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download subs question mark. So I have
found right, and we don't have any,
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unfortunately we don't have any Inside
Insider knowledge at Apple. I wish we
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had a relationship there. So if anybody
on this call knows somebody at Apple
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that they can connect us to, I would
love to connect with them. But from
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what I've heard and what I've just
heard, other people talk about it, the
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quality of your cover art. So Apple
does care about the quality of your
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cover art. They obviously care about
the number of downloads that your show
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is getting. And I've heard that they
also care a lot about how many
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subscribers your show has. So one of
the things that we do whenever we're
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first launching shows is we try to
optimize around getting ratings on the
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show. And we obviously make sure that
the cover art is good because we're
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producing it for them. So we have a
design team that cares deeply about
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that. So Cover Arts Good. And when we
are equipping our customers with the
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language, the emails to use internally
slack messages to use internally to get
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your entire team to leave a rating of
the show. We also have them get
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everybody to subscribe to the show as
well. So when you're asking for ratings
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of getting those early ratings, make
sure folks are subscribing to the
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podcast as well. So yeah, so ratings
are a big one. I think reviews. I hear
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a lot of people talking about reviews,
but I think ratings, I don't know this
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for sure. Again, I wish we had a
connection at Apple that could verify
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this. But because Apple only displays
the number of ratings, it makes me
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think that ratings matter more to them
than reviews, which is great for
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creators because reviews are a heck of
a lot harder to get than just getting
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somebody to tap the number of stars
they think the show deserves. That
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language that I just said actually is
really good language to use whenever
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you're asking for these ratings. And so
I would say like, hey, we just launched
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this new show, would love for you to
check it out and ratings are hugely
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helpful. Just have the number of stars
that you think the show deserves and
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that would really help us out a lot
that way. You're not telling people
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like, you know, leave us five star
reviews. But obviously I would imagine
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everybody that you're reaching out to
about the show, there's probably going
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to want to give you a five star rating.
So anything I missed there, dan Logan,
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I would just say that there's really
three different ways you're gonna
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ranked an apple. It's in the new and
noteworthy, the category charts and in
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the search engine. Like if people are
searching for the key words that you
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want to get found for the easiest one
is the search engine and that you can
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just launch out the gate with, if you
have just pretty good cover art, which
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increases the click through rate if
you're coming up fast and you just
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sneak the keywords into the title,
which is like old school S. E. O. And
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just get a bunch of people to rate it
really quickly. Like you're gonna play
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most niches. It's the competition just
isn't that hard. If you just start
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publishing in a new niche, your Garba
gonna rank within the top one or three
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really quickly. The categories are
difficult but I'm, I swear it's gonna
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be more based on downloads than
anything else. That's what I think
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James of course all the other things
matter. But the hardest one is just
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getting a brawl like a ton of downloads,
new and noteworthy. Gosh, I wish I knew.
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I'm still figuring that out. There's
lots of, there's lots of blog posts
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that shade these seven steps and I've
tried all those steps multiple times.
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Many customers. I'm like, nah, I don't
know. I've heard of people saying they
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know, but they also have relationships
with Apple and Apple, like literally
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won't talk to me. They're like so tight
lipped. But I'm like, I don't, I don't
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think I hear a lot of new podcasters
talking about trying to get into new
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and noteworthy. I personally never look
at new and noteworthy myself. So as a,
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as a podcast consumer, that's not how I
find shows. Quite honestly. I don't
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find new shows by searching categories
either. I could be an anomaly there.
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but I would be curious like if you have
a thought here and you like how you
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find shows, um just drop it in the
comments would be really interesting
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for us to know like when you're in
Apple podcast or Spotify, how are you
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finding shows or you, are you typing in
a keyword of a type of show you're
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looking for? Are you searching
categories? Are you searching No. And
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new and noteworthy that way. I can I
can answer this question next time with
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more data than just my own personal
preference of how I consume. But going
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back to ranking for a keyword. So many
people want to name, they want to get
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cute and fancy whenever they name their
show and they want to name it after one
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of their core values or they want to
name it after something that, that the
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outside world has no idea what the show
is actually about. And we've just we we
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try to name our show is like very on
the nose like very direct B2B growth.
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And the reason our show has done so
well is we rank for the keywords B two
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b. And so our show name is GDP growth
colon, your daily B two B marketing
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podcast. So we rank for B two B
marketing and we also rank for the term
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B two B. And I would say like try to
work your the keyword that you want to
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rank for in podcast platforms into the
name of your show. Uh there was a
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season where Apple was shutting shows
down that we're that we're doing
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keyword stuffing in the title of their
show. So you got to be careful not to
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just keyword stuff. Don't put your show
name colon, keyword line, keyword line
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keyword. But if you can organically
work it in to the name of your show in
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like a tagline for the show. I found
that that's that's really helpful. One
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of my friends shows he ranks for the
term senior living and his show has
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bridged the gap colon the senior living
podcast. And so hopefully that's uh
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that's helpful. Uh because I think
podcast S Ceo is is definitely a
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distribution tactic that I don't hear.
A lot of people talking about. Hi dan
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Sanchez here with a quick break from
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get their 2021 B two B video trans
guide. Are you about to say something?
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00:17:15.930 --> 00:17:20.790
Yeah, I just wanted to call out what
you said there because we didn't always,
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our show has been B two B growth for
from day one, right. And we've changed
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the cover art. We refresh that last
year. The full name of the show with
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the subtitle is B two B growth, your
daily B two B marketing podcast. Now we
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didn't always have that subtitle in
there and that's something that you
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could, you can change, you can iterate
on overtime. But we noticed that once
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we added that subtitle um, in our host
platform, we started to show up, I know
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if you search B two B marketing podcast
on google, we will be right in one of
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those first slots in the podcast
Carousel. So both Apple Search as well
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as Google search, Google starting to
surface podcast. Much like they did
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video in the, in the early days before
the Youtube acquisition. You know, we
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used to have to go to Youtube to find a
video. Now. If google says, oh, I think
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that James is looking for a video,
you're going to get that little
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carousel video options right,
podcasting is doing the same thing. And
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so even if you already have an existing
show and you're like, I don't want to
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rename my show, but it doesn't really
do many search favors. Experiment with
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the subtitle of the show because that
can help you in this area. Awesome. I
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see a question from Mirage. He says,
for for the guests, is a regular laptop
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good enough for recording on zoom or do
they need to buy specialized audio
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equipment looking you, you jumped in
and answered that. But I just want to
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make sure that we have this for anybody
that didn't see the comments and for
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anybody listening to this after. Yeah.
For all of the shows that we produce
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for our customers, we provide a pretty
straightforward equipment set up. You
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can see it on camera with, with James
there, it's a $100 U. S. B. Mic from
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Audio Technica and some equipment to
attach it to your desk. And we get this
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question. A lot of like do the guests
need need something? A lot of the later
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model MAC books have phenomenal
microphones to where it's really not so
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much of an issue as long as they're not
in an echoey bathroom. And there was
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also a question about like video, just
make sure they don't have a light
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directly behind them and if they do
turn it off, if there's a window closed,
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the blinds or re angle away from it,
don't have a dog in the room, like you
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guys can probably hear mine barking
right now. So, and I think also since
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Covid, we've all been a little bit more
accepting of recording in different
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environments. You have that already to
your advantage, if we've seen the
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tonight show from jimmy Fallon's living
room, your podcast is probably going to
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be okay and just look to make it
incrementally better as opposed to I
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have to have $10,000 worth of equipment
as the host and every guest, I need to
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ship them a microphone and ship it back,
start somewhere and then make little
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incremental improvements. Maybe you
start shipping them a $30 U. S. B. Mic
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or you work into your process. I've
seen Douglas Burdette do this with the
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marketing book podcast. He has a video
with a link to an inexpensive but high
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quality headset on amazon's like, hey,
if you don't have a podcast mike, go by
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this and you'll use it, you know,
outside of just being a guest on the
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podcast. So those are some things you
can do to address it, but I wouldn't
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make it everything or let it stop you.
I mean, James mentioned at the top of
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this show demands in live from chris
walker and the guys at, at the team at
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refined labs. I've heard episodes of
their show that are not the best audio
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quality, but the content carries the
day and it's been wildly popular, both
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live and on demand. So it's not just us
that are saying that .2 other examples
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got a question from Michael, just more
practical about how to get on the list
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for these calls. Um, he said already
getting value today, how can I get my
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co hosts or others an invitation to the
weekly meetings, Michael, If you'll
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just shoot me an email James at Sweet
Fish Media dot com or have them email
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me and just say, Hey, I'd love to be
added. I'm doing it kind of ghetto
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right now. I'm just doing a google
calendar invite. I've tried to find
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tools that where you can set up a
landing page and I just haven't found
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anything that that works real well. So
just have them shoot me an email James
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at Swedish Media dot com and I'll add
them to the recurring calendar invite.
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There's another question to hear from,
from Peter, how to use your podcast and
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cold email outreach to talk to
prospects or get their attention to
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your brand. This is obviously, this
seems very aligned with what I wrote
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the book about content based networking,
but I think Peter you're actually on
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here. Can you elaborate on that
question a bit if you're, if you're
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still here? Yeah, mainly that I've been
doing a lot of cold outbound and
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started a podcast three months ago and
I've found the open rates, click rates
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are good. Haven't got anyone to bite on
a call to action. So just wondering
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what other ways people are using um
their podcast to get in the face of
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potential prospects. The best thing
that's worked for me is asking for
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people for 10 minutes of feedback. The
amount of people have replied and said
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they'd get on the phone with me has
been uh surprising. The other thing is
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just lining up my copy with their job
role. So say, hey, I interviewed this S.
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E. O. Or this Ceo and then send it to a
ceo. So they let them know I'm talking
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to someone at the same level. And so
Peter, are you asking those prospects,
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are you asking them to be a guest on
your show or you're just trying to open
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up a sales conversation with using
content from your show as kind of a
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lead in mostly just a lead in and brand
awareness because a lot of times they
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might not be good on the podcast. So
I'm not using 100% just for finding
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candidates, rather getting them to pay
attention to me as authority and
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credibility and credible source um, and
then start a conversation. So
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eventually I have like a 13 email
sequence and, and I asked questions
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about every four emails and different
things along the lines of you know,
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what are you doing to solve this
problem or what's your biggest issue?
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Which podcast would you want to listen
to? And then they tell me and I know
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what their pain point is, Logan. Do you
have any thoughts there? I would
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encourage you to, to flip that a bit
Peter and asked some of those prospects.
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I love to feature ceos just like you
talking about their challenges and the
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solutions they're coming up with. Would
you be interested in being my guest?
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Because then it's, it's about value for
them and not value and you helping
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solve their problem, which means a
business transaction and your product
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or service but value to them. And oh,
Peter wants to hear what I have to say.
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Not to qualify me but to share what I
have to say with his audience. And so I
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think a lot of times and that's this
James asked the same question I had.
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There's two ways you can do this, send
them the podcast content to generate a
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conversation. But if you invite them to
be a guest on the podcast, even if you
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haven't identified them as a great
speaker, if they fit your buyer persona,
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they likely have things to say that
your other buyers will care about you.
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Just might not know what that is. And
that's where some frameworks in
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uncovering what their point of view or
their experiences that we've armed a
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lot of our customers with comes into
play where you can ask repeatable
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questions like Peter, what's a commonly
held belief about being a ceo in the
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manufacturing space? Totally make it up.
I don't know what what industry you
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sell to. What's a commonly held belief
about insert title and industry that
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you passionately disagree with boom, no
matter who it is, what industry we have
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the potential to go deep on a topic
that's going to create good content. So
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I would say don't step over the
opportunity to play to their ego and to
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deliver value in a different way,
saying, hey, I've interviewed other
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great guests, but don't go listen to
them. I wanna, I wanna feature you and
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you'll get more yeses than than you
think. Why do you say peter? Why do you
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say that there are some people that
you're reaching out to that wouldn't
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necessarily be a good guest for the
show. Is it because of the premise of
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your existing show? I don't think I
think his advice about asking some more
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00:25:13.970 --> 00:25:17.980
template id structured questions might
help it, but about a 30 of the people
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that I talked to just aren't up to the
level of what I want in terms of
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quality. Uh they either just go on too
long. Uh don't say anything interesting,
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not willing to be vulnerable to use a
lot of vague language or just kind of a
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lot of like self help book talk. Yeah.
And and one way that you could vet that
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peter and it gives you an extra
relational touch point is to do a pre
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00:25:44.020 --> 00:25:47.380
interview I really like, especially if
you're not talking to the chris
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walker's of the world folks that are on
podcasts all the time, but if you're
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just talking to practitioners, so for
us, like on GDP growth, we're talking
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to VPs of marketing and a lot of BtB
SaAS companies and more and more,
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they're being asked to be on more shows.
But in the early days none of them were
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being asked to be on podcasts. And so
by doing a pre interview, asking some
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what we call P. O. V. Discovery
questions Logan just shared one. What's
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a commonly held belief about B two B
marketing that you passionately
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disagree with or what's something that
everybody be marketers should start
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doing or stop doing, identify a P. O. B.
In that in that pre interview. And then
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during the actual interview, if you
like what they said in the pre
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00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:29.930
interview, you can elaborate on that
and you can use that preinterview is
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kind of a no pressure way to and and
don't. And timmy on our team, he's a
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00:26:34.510 --> 00:26:38.700
content strategist on our team. He like
you mentioning, they're not willing to
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get vulnerable enough, give them that
feedback, tell them like in the pre
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00:26:42.970 --> 00:26:46.320
interview, like, hey, you know, we
really want a more vulnerable vibe on
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00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:50.670
this show, um would you be willing to
press more into that answer? And
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00:26:50.670 --> 00:26:53.360
because you're not recording in that
preinterview, they feel a lot more
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00:26:53.360 --> 00:26:56.170
comfortable. I just found that folks
that are not accustomed to being on a
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00:26:56.170 --> 00:27:00.540
lot of shows actually really enjoy
being on a pre interview. It makes them
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00:27:00.540 --> 00:27:04.510
feel a lot less in their head and, and
they get to know you a little bit more
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00:27:04.520 --> 00:27:10.270
as well. It's awesome. Thanks for
asking that peter. I know we've got one
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00:27:10.270 --> 00:27:14.040
more minute here and I've actually got
a call at the top at the top of the
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00:27:14.040 --> 00:27:18.190
hour so we'll have to shut it down.
Unfortunately. Is there any any other
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00:27:18.190 --> 00:27:21.700
questions on this dock or any questions
in the chat here that we want to close
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00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:27.030
this out with Logan or dan that you saw?
Saw C. J asked C. J. Crew's asked a
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00:27:27.030 --> 00:27:32.560
question about Lincoln live. Check if
you're not following Sandra battery at
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00:27:32.560 --> 00:27:36.510
terminus, check out his feet. He's
using linkedin live and we're
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00:27:36.510 --> 00:27:40.960
repurposing a lot of that content for
their podcast to flip my funnel podcast.
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00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.680
So just quickly, if you're looking for
kind of someone who is kind of out
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00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.090
ahead of that, we haven't done linkedin
live and all here at sweet fish, but
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00:27:48.090 --> 00:27:53.050
that's one of our customers that is, so
I would, I would check him out, yep.
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00:27:53.060 --> 00:27:58.730
And that is the correct spelling. V A J
R E is his last name. Sandra badger. If
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00:27:58.730 --> 00:28:03.060
you type in san Graham terminus, you
should be able to find him. All right,
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00:28:03.060 --> 00:28:06.320
we are right at the top of the hour.
You also thank you so much for being
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here. We're gonna record this will
probably see an email for me tomorrow
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whenever we get this live on Youtube.
So we'll send it out to everybody. So
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there are folks from your team that
want to uh, that you want to share this
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with, be on the lookout for that link
in the next couple days and then if
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anybody wants to, wants to join in,
feel free to just have them email me
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James at Swedish media dot com and I
will get them added to the calendar
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invite for these calls. See you all
next week. Mhm.
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At Sweet Fish. We're on a mission to
create the most helpful content on the
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internet for every job function and
industry on the planet for the B two B
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marketing industry. This show is how
we're executing on that mission. If you
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know a marketing leader, that would be
an awesome guest for this podcast.
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Shoot me a text message. Don't call me
because I don't answer unknown numbers,
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but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8.
Just shoot me. Their name may be a link
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to their linkedin profile and I'd love
to check them out to see if we can get
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them on the show. Thanks a lot.