How To Make Buying From You Much Easier

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:09.880 Hello and welcome to the B two B growth show. Monthly book Talk. I'm Douglas 2 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:12.900 Burnett, host to the marketing book Podcast, where each week I published an 3 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:15.810 interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me and 4 00:00:15.810 --> 00:00:19.620 my listeners keep up with the latest ideas in the quickly changing world of 5 00:00:19.630 --> 00:00:23.980 marketing and sales. And joining me is my friend James Muir, author of The 6 00:00:23.980 --> 00:00:29.400 Perfect Close. This Secret to Closing sales in this monthly episode of the B 7 00:00:29.400 --> 00:00:33.590 two B growth show. We recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales 8 00:00:33.590 --> 00:00:36.890 books recently featured on the marketing book Podcast. Now I read 9 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:41.240 every book featured on the marketing book Podcast, but James reads even more 10 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:45.030 books than Ideo, and he listens to every episode of the marketing book 11 00:00:45.030 --> 00:00:49.120 podcast. So I'm delighted that he conjoined me. But first, a lot of 12 00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:53.360 listeners ask us both for book recommendations. So if either of us can 13 00:00:53.360 --> 00:00:58.010 recommend any marketing or sales books or other resource is for whatever 14 00:00:58.010 --> 00:01:02.340 situation you find yourself in or what you'd like to learn more about, please 15 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:05.740 feel free to connect with us on linked in where we can chat with you and we'll 16 00:01:05.740 --> 00:01:10.420 do our best to get you pointed in the right direction. However, please make 17 00:01:10.420 --> 00:01:14.580 sure to include a message with your invitation to connect on lengthen so 18 00:01:14.580 --> 00:01:19.510 we'll know you're not a spam baht, baby. James, welcome back to the B two B 19 00:01:19.510 --> 00:01:24.190 growth show book talk. Thank you, Douglas. I appreciate the intro, and, 20 00:01:24.190 --> 00:01:27.820 you know, I do read every book, and I listen to every episode because I like 21 00:01:27.820 --> 00:01:31.850 your picks. You know, you gotta smoking track record when it comes, man. Yeah. 22 00:01:31.850 --> 00:01:36.420 I can't believe these guests I attract. I shouldn't say that our collection is 23 00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:40.990 really right up my alley this time too. So, man, this is your role. If there 24 00:01:40.990 --> 00:01:45.800 were a James Muir edition of the B two B growth show book, this is the one. 25 00:01:45.810 --> 00:01:50.210 This is the one I don't know, man. We've had some good ones, so Yeah, So 26 00:01:50.210 --> 00:01:53.360 in this episode of book talk, we're gonna talk about the four most recent 27 00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:57.530 books featured on the marketing book podcast. And those are the visual sale. 28 00:01:57.540 --> 00:02:02.690 How to use video to explode sales, drive marketing, grow your business in 29 00:02:02.690 --> 00:02:07.440 a Virtual World by Marcus Sheridan and Tyler Lazard. Also the expansion sale 30 00:02:07.450 --> 00:02:11.250 for Must Win. Conversations to Keep and Grow Your Customers, by Eric Peterson 31 00:02:11.250 --> 00:02:16.400 and Tim Reiser, and also unfiltered marketing. Five. Rules to Win Back 32 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:20.270 Trust, Credibility and Customers in a Digitally Distracted World, by Stephen 33 00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:25.220 Denny and Paul Lynde. Burger and finally out bounding when new customers 34 00:02:25.220 --> 00:02:28.910 with outbound Sales and end your Dependence on Inbound leads by Williams. 35 00:02:28.910 --> 00:02:33.990 Skip Miller. Yeah, now I think, personally that Marcus Sheridan's book, 36 00:02:33.990 --> 00:02:38.020 they ask you answer, is probably one of the best marketing books ever written. 37 00:02:38.030 --> 00:02:42.430 And so I was super excited to see him teamed up with Tyler on our first book, 38 00:02:42.430 --> 00:02:46.460 which is the visual sale. How to use video to explode sales, drive marketing. 39 00:02:46.460 --> 00:02:49.180 Grow your business in the virtual world. So tell us about your interview with 40 00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:53.550 marketing legend Marcus Sheridan. Yes, and I should add Tyler Lassard is with 41 00:02:53.550 --> 00:03:01.600 vidyard the personal video company, and I use their e use it as well. So Marcus 42 00:03:01.600 --> 00:03:06.160 Sheridan Well, first, I just gotta be up front here. Marcus Sheridan is high 43 00:03:06.160 --> 00:03:11.000 atop the Douglas Burnett man crush list. Okay, there I said it. I just I love 44 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:18.040 this guy. I think it's a long list? Yes, yes. But he wrote They ask you answer. 45 00:03:18.050 --> 00:03:24.140 Okay. And so years ago, 2001, I think he wrote, started a pool cut fiberglass 46 00:03:24.140 --> 00:03:27.780 pool company in a rural area of Virginia. They started growing it. They 47 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:30.270 started doing a lot of advertising. 2000 and eight happened. The real 48 00:03:30.270 --> 00:03:35.190 estate market crashed. Nobody wanted a pool. They almost went out of business. 49 00:03:35.200 --> 00:03:38.150 He almost had to lose his house and declare bankruptcy. And what happened 50 00:03:38.150 --> 00:03:41.650 was they have more money for advertising. And he said, You know what? 51 00:03:41.660 --> 00:03:44.760 I'm a stubborn entrepreneur. I'm not gonna give up. I'm just gonna start 52 00:03:44.760 --> 00:03:48.550 answering every question I've ever gotten from a customer on my website. 53 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:54.000 And within a year now this is 2000 and eight. It was the number one pool site 54 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.880 in the world Onley by answering customers questions, mind blowing. It 55 00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:01.980 is in The New York Times later wrote about it and said, This is a 56 00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:06.380 revolutionary approach and he did a Ted talk and he said now and he's gotten 57 00:04:06.380 --> 00:04:09.390 into the marketing business. He's still in the pool business. He's gotta use a 58 00:04:09.390 --> 00:04:13.410 manufacturer now. So they ask you answer. It's It's actually in two 59 00:04:13.410 --> 00:04:16.240 editions, and I've interviewed him about both of them. But it's the most 60 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:19.709 counterintuitive thing. But when you answer your customers questions on your 61 00:04:19.709 --> 00:04:22.920 website, particularly ones you don't want to answer, their trusting you 62 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:28.270 sores and their fear of doing business with you really starts to plummet. So 63 00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:34.790 in his second edition, he added an extra 100 pages on. They ask you answer, 64 00:04:34.790 --> 00:04:38.070 which I recommend to everyone. It is truly one of my favorites out of the 65 00:04:38.070 --> 00:04:43.920 over 300 that I've I've read for this show, and he added extra 100 pages and 66 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:50.470 that had to do more specifically with what to put on your website and how toe 67 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:56.120 use videos. So this is a much deeper dive into how to use videos in the 68 00:04:56.120 --> 00:05:01.550 sales process. Please note it is not a book about how to make videos. There's 69 00:05:01.550 --> 00:05:05.240 a lot of good resource is out there that will tell you how to do that. It's 70 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:09.430 simpler and less expensive that you think, but basically, you know, the 71 00:05:09.430 --> 00:05:14.120 human brain likes watching videos more than it does reading texts, and it's 72 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:18.720 just so much powerful for building a relationship until you can get face to 73 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:24.370 face ideally and building trust and basically not not a big surprise here. 74 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.330 You should focus your videos on answering the questions your customers 75 00:05:30.330 --> 00:05:34.840 have at rather than what most companies do it, which is talking about 76 00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:38.120 themselves. That's why I think he calls everyone's so many companies. Their 77 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.770 YouTube page is like a retirement home for videos because they put him up 78 00:05:42.770 --> 00:05:45.920 there. They're all about them. Nobody watches. I mean, you can see the 79 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.670 analytics. So yes, this is all counterintuitive. And let me just jump 80 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:54.550 into one particular type of video that he recommends what it's called the 80% 81 00:05:54.550 --> 00:06:02.440 video and what you dio is you get with your sales team and you ask them, What 82 00:06:02.440 --> 00:06:06.200 are the questions you are answering every day? And whenever I've done that 83 00:06:06.200 --> 00:06:08.800 with a sales team, they're usually saying, Well, as I could tell you right 84 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.180 now, you know, these are the ones that just come up all over and over again. 85 00:06:12.190 --> 00:06:16.910 What you do is you then prioritize those into like the top seven. You can 86 00:06:16.910 --> 00:06:19.850 have six. You can have nine. But he says generally companies will have the 87 00:06:19.850 --> 00:06:25.000 top seven and then you cut together individual videos answering those 88 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.990 questions. But you can also put it into one big video, which is called the 80% 89 00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:34.660 Video. And it works really well. And Thea other thing, that and there's 90 00:06:34.660 --> 00:06:38.110 several other things, lots of things he talks about about using video. And 91 00:06:38.110 --> 00:06:41.430 really, I think everyone who's successful in sales is going to read 92 00:06:41.430 --> 00:06:45.160 this book and say, Oh, yeah, I do some of that I haven't done all of it great, 93 00:06:45.340 --> 00:06:48.820 Uh, for people who cross their arms and say, Well, I just don't think my 94 00:06:48.820 --> 00:06:53.660 customers wanna watch video. Good luck. Your hey would just tell you you're 95 00:06:53.660 --> 00:06:57.200 wrong. Well, he would say, You're wrong, but it's just not true, you know? And 96 00:06:57.200 --> 00:07:01.250 he in his book, he's very funny. He talks about all the pushback he gets, 97 00:07:01.250 --> 00:07:05.630 but it's all about the buyer. And answering questions is all about the 98 00:07:05.630 --> 00:07:11.160 buyer. So, you know, how do you say politely? Shut up about yourself. Focus. 99 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:15.000 Focus on your buyer because they have a lot more control over the content that 100 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:19.720 they consume, and they want things that we're focused on them. So the other 101 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:24.250 thing that was so interesting in the book was that marketers, generally 102 00:07:24.250 --> 00:07:29.030 speaking, need to be doing a lot more video. And what happens is, Ah, lot of 103 00:07:29.030 --> 00:07:33.490 video is done for what we might call awareness or sort of top of the funnel 104 00:07:33.490 --> 00:07:39.040 work. You know more broader terms, and it's good that you're doing it. But 105 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:42.420 that's often where it stops. What you ought to do is sit down with your sales 106 00:07:42.420 --> 00:07:45.870 people and say, What are some videos or one of the questions that you're 107 00:07:45.870 --> 00:07:50.470 getting from a prospect that already knows you and is ready, possibly to 108 00:07:50.470 --> 00:07:54.550 make a decision, work your way up the funnel because that's where a lot of 109 00:07:54.550 --> 00:07:59.890 this video is really needed, Uh, in the sales process. And as we know, as we 110 00:07:59.890 --> 00:08:03.220 all know, you know, people don't really want to talk to salespeople. You know, 111 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:06.030 they would rather not do that, even though a lot of sales people could be 112 00:08:06.030 --> 00:08:09.220 very helpful. But at least get the video out there so they can, uh, they 113 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:13.930 can consume that. And the other thing that was interesting. Just a couple of 114 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:18.590 real specifics is he explains, how you know a landing page is a page people go 115 00:08:18.590 --> 00:08:22.210 to where they fill out a form, maybe to gain access to some content or to 116 00:08:22.210 --> 00:08:26.320 schedule a meeting or whatever. But there's usually some hesitation. Every 117 00:08:26.320 --> 00:08:30.610 landing page, ideally, should have a video on it saying, Here's what's gonna 118 00:08:30.610 --> 00:08:34.780 happen when you fill out this form. It's just really reduces the risk. 119 00:08:34.789 --> 00:08:39.600 Email marketing has improved dramatically with video, and he even at 120 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.510 the end of the book. And this is worth the price of the book for anyone that 121 00:08:42.510 --> 00:08:47.160 does any kind of zoom meetings, which means every every one of you listening 122 00:08:47.160 --> 00:08:52.820 to this. He's got the 11 irrefutable laws of virtual sales meetings. I just 123 00:08:52.820 --> 00:08:57.300 loved it, but I'll stop here. But the one thing that I just wanted to carve 124 00:08:57.300 --> 00:09:03.030 in stone, as it relates to using video in sales, is authenticity. Trump's 125 00:09:03.030 --> 00:09:06.870 production value and so many people think that they have to hire a 126 00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:10.950 production company. In fact, it would be better if you didn't if you could 127 00:09:10.950 --> 00:09:15.290 build this culture of video and content within your organization, it's gonna 128 00:09:15.290 --> 00:09:19.690 stick and it's and it's going to start working better. But if it's too slick 129 00:09:19.690 --> 00:09:24.070 as we're gonna talk about another book that came up here unfiltered marketing 130 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.180 is you're actually hurting yourself by having to slick a production value. 131 00:09:28.190 --> 00:09:32.450 Don't be too polished. Yeah, it sounds a little bit like intent matters more 132 00:09:32.450 --> 00:09:37.950 than technique, doesn't it? E had to slide that in there, but that works in, 133 00:09:38.040 --> 00:09:41.920 you know, human relationships, you know? Yeah, it's more. It's more of the 134 00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:48.000 message than, uh than how it appears. But if you are your sales team or any 135 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.200 of the experts at your company are answering questions that people 136 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:55.410 answering those questions, they're gonna be usually experts. I mean, 137 00:09:55.410 --> 00:09:59.510 they're really familiar with what they're talking about, and if they are, 138 00:09:59.520 --> 00:10:03.550 that's gonna come through. You can't make that turn the camera on and asking 139 00:10:03.550 --> 00:10:06.560 questions and let him let him go through it. And the more real it is, 140 00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:10.280 the better it is. E. You might get the impression that it's all about just Q 141 00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:14.040 and A. And of course, that's super important, maybe overall framework for 142 00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:18.230 all these. But he is giving about half a dozen different categories of videos. 143 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:22.080 You know, 80% 1 you mentioned, but there's three employees bios. There's 144 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:25.760 the product fit. There's cost and pricing, which surprised some people. 145 00:10:25.760 --> 00:10:29.680 They don't want to reveal their costs on DSO. He's covers out of some length 146 00:10:29.680 --> 00:10:34.820 in both books, actually, in a customer journey claims we make even demo videos. 147 00:10:34.820 --> 00:10:39.500 So anyway, there's excellent content all the way around. Um, and the one 148 00:10:39.500 --> 00:10:44.020 take away that he had eyes. We said at the very beginning of this, which is 149 00:10:44.030 --> 00:10:49.060 recognized, that you are a media company with you, like it or not, all 150 00:10:49.060 --> 00:10:54.720 right. And the second part of that was, unless you show it, whatever it ISS, it 151 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.770 doesn't exist, right? You have to put it on video. That's how important it is. 152 00:10:58.780 --> 00:11:03.110 So I liked it. It's not just a high level marketing book. I mean, what 153 00:11:03.110 --> 00:11:06.660 you're getting here is a really it's really the perfect mix of ideas and 154 00:11:06.660 --> 00:11:10.130 checklists to engage an audience. You know, build awareness, great following 155 00:11:10.130 --> 00:11:13.950 drive demand. And I think it's super applicable to both marketing and sales 156 00:11:13.950 --> 00:11:18.720 professional. So just really, you know, a sales person could get this and say, 157 00:11:18.730 --> 00:11:22.460 Gosh, I should be doing this, get their phone out and do it or they use the 158 00:11:22.460 --> 00:11:27.600 camera on their computer at the same times This is an excellent opportunity 159 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:31.980 for a marketing person to read this and say, Oh, my goodness, this is a great 160 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:36.850 way to help the sales team and build my own credibility. And probably heaven 161 00:11:36.850 --> 00:11:43.010 forbid, actually start increasing sales. Yeah, the real goal. Yeah, Yeah, 162 00:11:43.020 --> 00:11:47.700 dynamite. All right, well, next up, we've got the expansion sale. Four must 163 00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:51.560 win conversations to keep and grow your customers by Peterson and Tim Reiser. 164 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:55.720 And I love every single book that has been put out by corporate visions. And 165 00:11:55.730 --> 00:11:59.500 I would have just add to that that their website is also dynamite. And so 166 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:03.630 I Oh, they were kind of slowly leaking information that was gonna be in this 167 00:12:03.630 --> 00:12:07.620 book on their website and in different webinars and things. So I was anxiously 168 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:11.710 awaiting this book. Tim himself is an amazing author. He's a great speaker. 169 00:12:11.710 --> 00:12:14.700 If you ever get a chance to see him, you should see him. So tell us a little 170 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:19.670 about your interview with Tim. Yes, and I met him at a event in Chicago and he 171 00:12:19.670 --> 00:12:24.940 was one of the speakers, and afterwards I came up to him. He was the last 172 00:12:24.940 --> 00:12:29.440 speaker of the day to and I came up and said You were the best speaker all day. 173 00:12:29.450 --> 00:12:34.510 And James Muir. I could say that because I was also one of the speakers. 174 00:12:34.520 --> 00:12:39.900 You and your self deprecating humor. I love it, but he was. He was good and he 175 00:12:39.900 --> 00:12:44.550 takes such great content. And then he the speaking is even better. So 176 00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:48.890 corporate visions does this unbelievable research. And as I 177 00:12:48.890 --> 00:12:52.000 mentioned him during the interview, it's sort of like reading a book by, 178 00:12:52.010 --> 00:12:55.760 you know, corporate executive Board, C E B. They're not product where it's 179 00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:58.190 like the Challenger sale or the challenge of customer. Its like you 180 00:12:58.190 --> 00:13:02.810 read this and you go, Really, they go, Yeah, it's backed up by all this 181 00:13:02.810 --> 00:13:07.890 research and they tell you about the research. Yeah, So basically the story 182 00:13:07.890 --> 00:13:11.380 with this book is that if you communicate with your customers the 183 00:13:11.380 --> 00:13:16.410 same way you do with your prospective customers, you are hurting yourself Now. 184 00:13:16.410 --> 00:13:19.890 They had this hunch, but then, of course, they did a few years of 185 00:13:19.900 --> 00:13:25.970 research into it. And basically, let's just remind folks 70 to 80% of business 186 00:13:25.970 --> 00:13:30.880 growth comes from existing customers. But most like I said, most companies 187 00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:33.640 air communicating with their customers the same way they do with their 188 00:13:33.650 --> 00:13:38.460 prospects, and it often has disastrous mistakes. It's hard to keep the 189 00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:42.330 customers if you're communicating with them in the same way you did to get 190 00:13:42.330 --> 00:13:46.730 them. So they talk in the book. Is the title implies about the four most 191 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:49.630 important conversations? There's lots of communications you do with your 192 00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:54.460 customers. But the four most important ones were getting renew ALS, like 193 00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:59.770 contract renewals, communicating price increases every sales persons, their 194 00:13:59.770 --> 00:14:04.380 ears just went up. Communicating price increases, increasing up cells in other 195 00:14:04.380 --> 00:14:11.840 words, selling mawr and apologizing effectively for missed aches or service 196 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.520 failures. Those were the four that have the biggest impact on keeping or 197 00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:22.640 running off your customers. And one of the big concepts underlying their 198 00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:28.460 research and really any kind of human psychology or sales is about the status 199 00:14:28.460 --> 00:14:33.040 quo bias, right? So ah, body at rest tends to stay at rest. People don't 200 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:36.790 like change, and the reason we don't like changes because it's helped our 201 00:14:36.790 --> 00:14:41.880 ancestors evolved. Change often met a bear was coming in. Hey, yeah, so 202 00:14:41.890 --> 00:14:46.710 there's a reason why we don't want to change things. So, for instance, um if 203 00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:50.970 you got your customers by convincing them to change, and then once they're 204 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.230 oh, and they did, we're all selling change, regardless of whatever it is we 205 00:14:54.230 --> 00:14:58.520 happen to be selling, and then you then once their customer, you then come back 206 00:14:58.520 --> 00:15:02.870 and propose even more change. The research shows that the customers, more 207 00:15:02.870 --> 00:15:05.370 often than not, want to say, All right, well, let's go look for another 208 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:10.940 supplier. No, don't do that. Ouch! There's a There's a very specific way 209 00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:14.730 that a sales team could understand as to how you need to go about some of 210 00:15:14.730 --> 00:15:19.650 these things differently. But those are the four ways they explain how to do it 211 00:15:19.650 --> 00:15:23.050 right and how to do it, how to run your customers off. But the other thing that 212 00:15:23.640 --> 00:15:27.710 really resonated with me, James, was that the mortar that you can 213 00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:33.730 communicate to your customers as it relates to their goals, the more 214 00:15:33.730 --> 00:15:38.980 effective you will be and that doesn't that sound like, uh, making effective 215 00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:43.860 sales as well. James, you're a little familiar rather than in this book. They 216 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:47.820 talk about how it's really a bad idea to be talking about products and 217 00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:52.890 features toe lead with that instead lead with their goals. So I mean, it 218 00:15:52.890 --> 00:15:55.970 works well in sales. But it also works even better when you're communicating 219 00:15:55.970 --> 00:15:58.610 with with customers. Because like if you have a new product and you're 220 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:02.300 trying to introduce it to him and you say we have a new product, they really 221 00:16:02.300 --> 00:16:05.520 don't care and they don't trust you because I think, oh, you're just trying 222 00:16:05.520 --> 00:16:08.110 to get more money from us. You have a self orientation, you're not concerned 223 00:16:08.110 --> 00:16:14.720 about us. And they proved that z really not up for debate anymore. So you could 224 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.390 You could say that what I like about this but a lot of the book is about 225 00:16:17.390 --> 00:16:20.320 framing right and the best way to frame your communication in one of those 226 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.710 various different context, right? I think it's why stay? Why pay more? Why 227 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:28.690 evolve and wife forgive and that the sequence that you use when you're 228 00:16:28.690 --> 00:16:32.510 presenting those messages sometimes makes more difference than than the 229 00:16:32.510 --> 00:16:35.990 actual product on the offer and all that kind of eso. I found that 230 00:16:35.990 --> 00:16:38.580 fascinating and that's one of the thing is very cool about the research that 231 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:41.640 they do is they test all these different things. They usually scramble 232 00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:44.870 it in every way possible to see which order is the best way to introduce the 233 00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:48.400 concepts. And then they figure out which one wins the most and so far and 234 00:16:48.400 --> 00:16:51.790 most of their research, it's always the same one that totally dominates right. 235 00:16:51.790 --> 00:16:55.190 It becomes really obvious which one is the way to go. And that's really what 236 00:16:55.190 --> 00:16:58.740 the secret that you're getting when you buy the book is okay if you need. If 237 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:02.320 you just screwed up and now you need to go apologize, here's the best way to 238 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:07.260 apologize, right? And that was such a good example where they had, I don't 239 00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:12.690 know, five or seven different ways that companies might think to apologize. But 240 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:17.720 there's a certain order that makes a big, big difference. It's amazing, and 241 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.569 you wouldn't expect that right? You would think just sucking it up does the 242 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:24.030 trick right? Or or comping it or I mean, they go through all the different 243 00:17:24.030 --> 00:17:27.910 things in there. But no, there's a single best way, and now you've got at 244 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:31.730 least as of today, if you want to know the best way to get forgiveness, its's 245 00:17:31.730 --> 00:17:34.770 in that book, Yeah, and and it's Normally you'd read something like that 246 00:17:34.770 --> 00:17:38.000 in the book and you'd say, Well, you know, that's your opinion But the 247 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.300 problem is they back it up. They include all the research there, and 248 00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:45.410 it's like, Oh, yeah, the counter intuitive thing is the one that you 249 00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:48.260 said at the beginning, which is in sales. We tend to treat everybody as 250 00:17:48.260 --> 00:17:51.630 though they're a new customer, and that will backfire on you if you're trying 251 00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:54.260 to go get Renew ALS. If you're a SAS company, you're trying to get 252 00:17:54.260 --> 00:17:57.620 renewables or you're trying to do a price increase because maybe you 253 00:17:57.620 --> 00:18:01.770 upgrade to the feature set or something like that. They give you the right way 254 00:18:01.770 --> 00:18:05.370 to do that, and it's not. It's not the change message that we were using 255 00:18:05.370 --> 00:18:09.490 before from the other books. Yeah, and I didn't realize that some of those 256 00:18:09.490 --> 00:18:14.690 things were so counterproductive and so alienating to customers. Yeah, I think 257 00:18:14.690 --> 00:18:17.390 they're working on another book, which I'm excited about, which is, of course, 258 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:20.870 about messaging, but, um, and they've leaked some of this information, but 259 00:18:20.840 --> 00:18:25.770 it's how hyper customized does your emails need to be on your messaging 260 00:18:25.770 --> 00:18:30.340 need to be, and it turns out that there's a sort of 80 20 rule where you 261 00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:34.970 don't wanna overdo it backfires and you don't wanna under do it. So we'll wait 262 00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:38.610 for that book. But I'm I'm I So follow these guys that I'm super excited about 263 00:18:38.610 --> 00:18:42.940 that. Yeah, You really don't wanna miss what they come out with. It gives you 264 00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:45.920 an edge, right? As soon as you learn it, man, you could go out there and apply 265 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.170 it, and suddenly you're beating the pants off everybody because everybody's 266 00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:52.110 doing the old school way, right? Think about it. We were We were selling 267 00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:56.880 upgrades the way we were selling new clients and it was backfiring on us. So, 268 00:18:56.890 --> 00:19:01.020 you know, his one take away was just basically What we've been saying is 269 00:19:01.020 --> 00:19:04.620 that one size doesn't fit all when it comes to messaging or storytelling. The 270 00:19:04.620 --> 00:19:07.940 situation determines the strategy, and that's what they're giving you here and 271 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:11.280 those for any way that they have given you. And then the one thing he thought 272 00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:15.350 the listeners could dio is to leverage what they call the context effect. And 273 00:19:15.350 --> 00:19:18.780 that is to frame your existing expansion in the context of the 274 00:19:18.780 --> 00:19:22.920 previous investment that they made right with you and that that will make 275 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.960 it make much more sense to them, and it will resonate more with them. So it's 276 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.620 really more of a consistency place. Well, yeah, and it's also sort of 277 00:19:28.620 --> 00:19:32.690 leveraging the status quo bias where? Look how much you went through to pick 278 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.830 us. You don't wanna have to do that again, right? You don't want to throw 279 00:19:35.830 --> 00:19:39.820 that away, right? Exactly. And it's really a simple message when you get 280 00:19:39.830 --> 00:19:42.610 thinking about it. But that's not how we were doing it before, Right? When 281 00:19:42.610 --> 00:19:46.400 we're making great from there is, Then you say if you're thinking about it, I 282 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:52.760 don't want to think I will say this. I have seen an entire industry destroyed 283 00:19:52.840 --> 00:19:56.610 by one company buying another company, buying multiple companies trying to 284 00:19:56.610 --> 00:20:00.380 acquire. And what happened is every time they with the dream that they 285 00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:05.000 would upgrade their I t system with this new one that they had in the wings, 286 00:20:05.010 --> 00:20:07.370 right? So they thought they were buying market share. They're gonna upgrade 287 00:20:07.370 --> 00:20:10.950 with this new system. And what happened in every case is they went out there 288 00:20:11.540 --> 00:20:16.910 and they sold the change and what that caused is that cost all those customers 289 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.640 to go look outside of that vendor. They thought the upgrade was gonna be an 290 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.500 automatic, And as soon as they realized they were gonna have to make a change, 291 00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:25.660 they say, Well, we may as well look at everything right now since we're gonna 292 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:28.970 have to make a change. And that literally destroyed the company. They 293 00:20:28.970 --> 00:20:31.740 acquired all these companies and then literally lost about 80% of their 294 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:36.350 market share due to just, you know, normal head to head competitions. Eso 295 00:20:36.350 --> 00:20:41.280 this book probably directly today. That was 20 years ago, right? But, you know, 296 00:20:41.290 --> 00:20:44.400 think about it, that that is a literal testament to what they're saying here 297 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:48.600 in this book. Well, he's getting a ton of content in the like, literally a ton 298 00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:51.410 of contents in the book is in that interview that you did with him, or so 299 00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:54.980 I would highly recommend that listeners actually go Definitely go listen to the 300 00:20:54.980 --> 00:20:58.430 full interview. He's really I mean, it's nonstop. It's really a very high 301 00:20:58.430 --> 00:21:02.280 value interview on Guy would also tell the listeners, Don't just pick up this 302 00:21:02.280 --> 00:21:04.760 book, go out and pick up all the books you won't not be sorry. They're 303 00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:09.210 excellent. Very true. I think this is the third one that the two of them have 304 00:21:09.210 --> 00:21:15.120 written. It's a CEO, and then Tim is ahead of strategy. I believe. Josh, 305 00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:18.650 what do you think is the most irritating thing for B two B buyers 306 00:21:18.650 --> 00:21:22.150 right now, an Logan. I love talking to you about this. You know that the 307 00:21:22.150 --> 00:21:26.750 number one challenge right now is that many customer facing teams in the B two 308 00:21:26.750 --> 00:21:31.360 B space right now are forcing their potential buyers, too, by the way that 309 00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:35.110 they want to sell. Buyers don't wanna buy that way right now. They wanna, by 310 00:21:35.110 --> 00:21:39.760 the way they want to buy. We need to enable those buyers. We call this buyer 311 00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:43.560 enablement at sales reach. We need to enable those buyers to make better 312 00:21:43.560 --> 00:21:48.070 decisions quicker in a comfortable environment that's more personalized 313 00:21:48.070 --> 00:21:51.140 for them to move forward with that process. Dude, that's awesome. I 314 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:54.620 couldn't agree more. Since I've been using sales reach in my own sales 315 00:21:54.620 --> 00:21:59.120 process, it's allowed me to really enable the buyer to move more quickly 316 00:21:59.120 --> 00:22:02.720 in really two ways. One, they don't have to download a bunch of attachments. 317 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.950 Aiken, send them toe one page with the proposal. Case studies Different 318 00:22:06.950 --> 00:22:10.700 resource is because, let's face it, the proposal is just one part of the sales 319 00:22:10.700 --> 00:22:14.840 conversation and probably Onley one sales enablement piece of content that 320 00:22:14.840 --> 00:22:18.870 you're sending so it makes it easier on them. And then the other thing is, you 321 00:22:18.870 --> 00:22:22.330 know, we're selling to our champions, and then we're making them have to re 322 00:22:22.330 --> 00:22:25.930 give our pitch to the entire buying committee. So one thing I do is put a 323 00:22:25.930 --> 00:22:30.220 custom 2 to 3 minute video on the top of my sales reach page that says, Hey, 324 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:33.290 here's all the resource is tie it back to the conversation. Here's the 325 00:22:33.290 --> 00:22:36.730 proposal. Let me know if you have any questions, and it allows me to give a 326 00:22:36.730 --> 00:22:39.970 little bit of kind of a mini pitch to the rest of the buying committee. 327 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.970 Introduce myself, which helps me build trust and credibility and helps the 328 00:22:43.970 --> 00:22:48.800 buyer not have to repeat the entire pitch from scratch. So if anybody is 329 00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:52.040 looking to do the same thing in their own sales process, I'd highly suggest 330 00:22:52.040 --> 00:22:55.280 they reach out to you and the team over its sales reach for anybody listening. 331 00:22:55.280 --> 00:23:01.770 Just go to sales reach dot io to talk to Josh and the team. All right, well, 332 00:23:01.770 --> 00:23:05.970 great. Next up, we've got unfiltered marketing. Five rules to win back Trust, 333 00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:09.460 credibility and customers in a digitally Distracted World by Stephen 334 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:13.650 Denny and Paul Line Burger and this book gets right to what is probably the 335 00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:18.280 most important element in both sales and marketing, and that would be trust. 336 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.570 So tell us a little bit about your interview with Stephen Denny. Well, you 337 00:23:21.570 --> 00:23:26.970 know, this is another book based on several years of research about the 338 00:23:26.970 --> 00:23:33.770 intersection of culture and technology. And they are talking in this book about 339 00:23:33.770 --> 00:23:41.000 this fascinating collapse of trust in institutions around us. And you know 340 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.340 how when you're watching the news or if you've seen the news o are sports or 341 00:23:45.340 --> 00:23:51.140 whatever and they're they're showing on the screen a tweet from somebody. Yeah, 342 00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:54.200 In the interview, I joked with him. I said, You know, I think the news media 343 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:58.130 dies a little bit inside every time they have to put a tweet up because we 344 00:23:58.130 --> 00:24:02.840 could have seen that tweet. They're no longer news. And that was a big part of 345 00:24:02.840 --> 00:24:06.500 the beginning of the book, where how, like I think he talked about when Osama 346 00:24:06.500 --> 00:24:10.900 bin Laden was killed. There was an I t professional, like in the next house, 347 00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:14.110 and he was tweeting about what was going on. And everybody or a lot of 348 00:24:14.110 --> 00:24:17.220 people around the world, start figuring out what was going on long before there 349 00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:21.510 was a press conference with President Obama. So that's where we are now. 350 00:24:21.510 --> 00:24:26.740 Where the media is being by passed to a certain extent, and we've got all this, 351 00:24:26.750 --> 00:24:32.460 uh, live information available to us. So they write about these different 352 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.220 latent anxieties and desires. That that people have is that relates to this 353 00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:41.960 information. And one of the big concepts that's come out is that people 354 00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:45.560 want to have some sense of control over their lives. They're they're very 355 00:24:45.560 --> 00:24:49.870 mistrustful of organizations there, mistrustful of your businesses. They 356 00:24:49.870 --> 00:24:53.930 don't really they trust them, They call it seeking control in and out of 357 00:24:53.930 --> 00:24:58.680 control world. And so some of the ways that they some of things they talk 358 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:03.690 about in the book is this idea of just being raw, meaning, you know, 359 00:25:03.700 --> 00:25:07.460 unscripted. So let's say your head of an airline and there's been a big 360 00:25:07.460 --> 00:25:13.800 problem you don't wait a few days, you get on your phone or whatever and just 361 00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:16.830 say, Look, we don't have all the information, but here's what's going on 362 00:25:16.830 --> 00:25:20.690 and this is what we're gonna do to keep you updated. And you're starting to see 363 00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:24.840 more companies do that. You're starting to see some that hide in a bunker. Bad 364 00:25:24.840 --> 00:25:30.840 idea. It hurts trust even more than just a few years ago. And then a couple 365 00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:34.940 of the concepts they talk about is how raw, being unscripted and unscripted is 366 00:25:34.940 --> 00:25:39.400 sort of a willingness to be vulnerable. And the example I just gave where 367 00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.580 you're not saying, you know, like, emotionally vulnerable saying, Look, we 368 00:25:42.580 --> 00:25:47.010 don't have all the information, but we're going to update you and these are 369 00:25:47.010 --> 00:25:50.880 the actions were taking that works much better. And the other thing that was 370 00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:53.090 you know, one of many things that was so fascinating is that they talked 371 00:25:53.090 --> 00:25:57.940 about how in the future when a company wants to draw attention to like a new 372 00:25:57.940 --> 00:26:01.810 product, it's launching its not gonna have a press conference necessarily. 373 00:26:01.810 --> 00:26:05.900 It's gonna do live streaming, you know, warts and all. You know the possibility, 374 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:09.320 Miss take. They people trust the live streaming mawr, and you're probably 375 00:26:09.320 --> 00:26:13.260 gonna start seeing Mawr live streaming. One of the things they talk about in 376 00:26:13.260 --> 00:26:18.900 the book about how people trust this unfiltered marketing mawr is this idea 377 00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:23.890 of being in context. So the more that again we're sounds like we're talking 378 00:26:23.890 --> 00:26:28.460 about effective sales here for content. But the mawr, you could be relevant and 379 00:26:28.460 --> 00:26:32.820 sort of empathic for what people are looking for that moment, the more 380 00:26:32.820 --> 00:26:36.220 successful you're gonna be. So just like those videos we talked about with 381 00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:40.060 with Marcus book you know, if you have more video about the bottom of the 382 00:26:40.070 --> 00:26:42.810 sales funnel, you're really going to stand out because not many people have 383 00:26:42.820 --> 00:26:47.000 that, and it's demonstration of Oh, these people understand me and and they 384 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:51.470 go on to talk about, you know, other ideas about being in context again. Do 385 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:55.370 you sense a theme? They talk about how teaching your customers to be better 386 00:26:55.370 --> 00:27:01.710 buyers is really, really effective market, teaching them how to buy the 387 00:27:01.710 --> 00:27:04.980 thing you're selling well, you're able to put it in context and you're able to 388 00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:08.810 show why they might want to consider paying more for something. But they 389 00:27:08.810 --> 00:27:12.440 just didn't know that I think about something I'm not familiar with, like a 390 00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:15.970 roofing job or something that I don't go by all the time. The more that I'm 391 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:20.540 able to understand why something should be price Maurin the value there I I'm 392 00:27:20.540 --> 00:27:24.630 all about it. And I'm all excited when a company takes the time to explain 393 00:27:24.630 --> 00:27:29.630 that to me. Other. One of the other things that was so interesting and 394 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.520 talked about a lot on the podcast and all these books is that they talk about 395 00:27:32.520 --> 00:27:38.020 why experience design is so important. And it's really for the same reason. If 396 00:27:38.020 --> 00:27:43.130 you're able to think Maura about every interaction they have with your company, 397 00:27:43.130 --> 00:27:46.800 whether they're buying from you or they're considering it or the after 398 00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:51.630 they've become a customer, the mawr effective, you're gonna be the greater 399 00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:57.960 loyalty there's going to be. So designing what your customer encounters 400 00:27:57.970 --> 00:28:02.720 is, I would argue the most important marketing because you know, the Maya 401 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:06.400 Angelou quote, people will forget what you said. People will forget what you 402 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:10.370 did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. So you know what? Just 403 00:28:10.370 --> 00:28:12.410 two other things I want to mention about the book that really stuck with 404 00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:17.100 me were things idea of heroic credibility and again this. You know, 405 00:28:17.100 --> 00:28:19.760 they talk about culture and technology, But a lot of this you're able to look 406 00:28:19.760 --> 00:28:23.810 at current events in the last couple of years and see where companies have 407 00:28:23.810 --> 00:28:27.110 gotten it right and gotten it wrong. And there are certain companies where 408 00:28:27.110 --> 00:28:30.370 they take a stand. They stand for certain things. These values are 409 00:28:30.370 --> 00:28:35.150 important to them, and when they take a stand is not a surprise. But I can't 410 00:28:35.150 --> 00:28:39.110 remember the term. I think he called it militant militant branding or something 411 00:28:39.110 --> 00:28:44.910 like that, where suddenly a company will take a stand on a larger issue. 412 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:49.600 And it was never something they did in the past. People are really cynical 413 00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:53.790 about that. Like, for instance, I think one of the examples was ecological 414 00:28:53.790 --> 00:28:57.950 example that he uses in there. I think, Yeah, there was one from Gillette where 415 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:00.990 they've always been about, you know, men's grooming products. And then they 416 00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:06.370 came out with an ad that talked about toxic masculinity, and it was like Well, 417 00:29:06.370 --> 00:29:10.000 you know, you this brand hasn't been talking about that ever, and suddenly 418 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.190 they do that and once some would argue that it's not a good idea toe insult 419 00:29:14.190 --> 00:29:18.540 your target audience. This feels really plummeted. Or another example was this 420 00:29:18.540 --> 00:29:22.410 sports sporting goods retailer in the United States that sold a lot of 421 00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:26.540 sporting goods, including a lot of firearms. And there was, ah, mass 422 00:29:26.540 --> 00:29:32.190 shooting using, Ah, I think in a R 15 in some place the United States and 423 00:29:32.190 --> 00:29:35.790 they said, Well, from now on, we're not going to sell that particular model of 424 00:29:35.790 --> 00:29:40.400 weapon. And a lot of their customers were angry because that's where they 425 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:45.200 had been buying things. But then also, the gun manufacturers said, All right, 426 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:49.470 well, we're just not gonna let you sell any of our product s. So it was sort of 427 00:29:49.470 --> 00:29:51.880 like, you know, they'd always been taking that position One thing, But 428 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:55.280 there was serious blowback in both instances with Gillette and this, uh, 429 00:29:55.540 --> 00:29:58.980 sporting good retailer and the one last thing I wanna mention. They talk about 430 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:03.070 value driven brands. So in other words, we talk about purpose driven brands or 431 00:30:03.070 --> 00:30:08.240 Simon cynics. Great book about people buy why you do what you dio. And they 432 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.380 were arguing that it's really probably more effective to talk about what 433 00:30:12.380 --> 00:30:17.480 values are important to your company. More important than that, what values 434 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:22.580 are important to your customers? There's a big disparity between these 435 00:30:22.580 --> 00:30:28.010 companies that take a stand based on certain values they have and to their 436 00:30:28.020 --> 00:30:31.970 great horror and surprise. Ah, lot of times it's not important to their 437 00:30:31.970 --> 00:30:36.730 customers or it alienates their customers. So again, I know I sound 438 00:30:36.730 --> 00:30:40.260 like a broken record. But if you're a little more customer focused, you're 439 00:30:40.260 --> 00:30:43.780 gonna find out what's important to your customers and a lot of those values. 440 00:30:43.780 --> 00:30:47.040 They're probably gonna intersect with your company anyway, but you might want 441 00:30:47.040 --> 00:30:51.120 to check in with your customers. No doubt that's 33 out of three. So far, 442 00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:54.610 books have mentioned something along those lines, so there's a common theme 443 00:30:54.610 --> 00:30:59.680 in all of them. Well, his one take away in this example are in. This are on 444 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.910 your interview is that technology has emerged as really one of the most 445 00:31:03.910 --> 00:31:07.240 profound things in our lives now, and it's really changed the way our brains 446 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:10.580 work and like like we mentioned the beginning. There's a lot of research in 447 00:31:10.580 --> 00:31:13.720 this particularly fascinating research, I think, but he says we need to focus 448 00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:16.800 more on the human side of the equation rather than just layering on more and 449 00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:22.130 more layers of technology, Right? And the one thing that he thought that, uh, 450 00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:24.840 this ought to tell you how human this book it's actually. And by the way, 451 00:31:24.840 --> 00:31:26.930 there's quite a bit of humor in this book. To I thought it was very 452 00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:31.940 entertaining is find a way to get out of your ego, right? Get your ego out of 453 00:31:31.940 --> 00:31:35.790 the way and go out unscripted and find a way to get unscripted and unfiltered. 454 00:31:35.790 --> 00:31:39.110 It's honestly just gives you a license to kind of screw up a little bit, but 455 00:31:39.110 --> 00:31:42.300 it should be easy or not. Instead of over planning, just go out there and be 456 00:31:42.300 --> 00:31:47.000 authentic. Yeah, I have no problems growing up, but I think I e would know 457 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.570 that. But it's true. But also they talk about just one more book. I just wish 458 00:31:51.570 --> 00:31:56.280 more companies would pay attention, were brought to your customers. Don't 459 00:31:56.280 --> 00:32:00.940 ask them what they want. Find out what upsets them. Find out what they like. 460 00:32:00.950 --> 00:32:06.490 Find out where the friction is in their life. Yeah, get off my soapbox. This 461 00:32:06.490 --> 00:32:09.620 book is phenomenal, that message and many more. I mean, there's there's five 462 00:32:09.620 --> 00:32:13.270 different rules that he basically are the crux of the book, along with the 463 00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:16.250 research in the psychology that goes with it. And so I think they're 464 00:32:16.250 --> 00:32:20.120 paradigm shifting insights. Be honest on human side of technology and how to 465 00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:23.730 apply a set of rules on how to follow those to build trust. Right? And so I 466 00:32:23.730 --> 00:32:26.240 think it applies both again to marketing and sales professional. So 467 00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:29.530 again, two thumbs up on this one. Absolutely. Alright, well asked up, We 468 00:32:29.530 --> 00:32:33.340 have got out bounding when new customers with Outbound Sales and and 469 00:32:33.340 --> 00:32:36.730 Your Dependence on inbound leads by William Skip Miller and I have a 470 00:32:36.730 --> 00:32:41.990 confession to make. I have all of Skips books. So Skip Yeah, I'm a longtime fan. 471 00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:45.850 So for the longest time, his books actually had two books on management, 472 00:32:45.850 --> 00:32:48.790 and they were literally the only ones you could find in sales management on. 473 00:32:48.790 --> 00:32:51.390 And I'm happy to say that all the principals in those books are still 474 00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:55.010 applicable today, as they were when he wrote him. So anyway, tell us about 475 00:32:55.020 --> 00:32:58.720 Skips newest book, which is out bounding and your interview a Skip. So 476 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:03.770 Skip is, uh, based in Silicon Valley. And he's done a lot of work with a lot 477 00:33:03.770 --> 00:33:09.940 of tech companies in, you know, 38 countries. And he has clients. Lisa. 478 00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:17.470 Little known companies like Apple, Google Zoom. Yeah, small guys, But, uh, 479 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:22.030 this book talks about, and I'm sure this is controversial to the marketing 480 00:33:22.030 --> 00:33:27.610 people, but I don't know if you recall James, but in the books by Anthony and 481 00:33:27.610 --> 00:33:33.350 Arino and Jeb Blunt, terrific authors. They talk about this dichotomy of 482 00:33:33.350 --> 00:33:40.440 rainmakers versus rain barrels, which I love. And so too many companies and 483 00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.560 their sales people are more like rain barrels, just kind of waiting for the 484 00:33:43.560 --> 00:33:48.380 rain to come in. And that may have worked well 10 years ago, five years 485 00:33:48.380 --> 00:33:51.260 ago, you know, with with the inbound marketing, which is, you know, which is 486 00:33:51.260 --> 00:33:55.090 a good thing. But there aren't that many that rainmakers and what he's 487 00:33:55.090 --> 00:33:59.480 arguing that there are so many people now they're trained just to qualify 488 00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:04.260 inbound leads and and work it that way that that they become over reliant on 489 00:34:04.260 --> 00:34:08.710 that and there's a lot of markets they're saying not in their head, but 490 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.600 the other thing is that there are a lot more people that you can reach if you 491 00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:18.830 are proactively outbound prospecting. OK, so for those of you, say Yeah, but 492 00:34:18.830 --> 00:34:22.540 nobody answers the phone, Get over yourself. The telephone is still one of 493 00:34:22.540 --> 00:34:25.670 most effective ways, even if you leave a voicemail. But there's there's many, 494 00:34:25.670 --> 00:34:32.199 many, many mediums. And so he explains that when you have an inbound lead 495 00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:36.360 coming in, it's a very different scenario. In other words, very likely. 496 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:42.040 It's a prospect who has sort of identified maybe a problem or or some 497 00:34:42.040 --> 00:34:45.850 sort of change that they ought to be looking into, right. Okay, so when you 498 00:34:45.850 --> 00:34:51.880 are out bounding, you are trying to sell change. You see the difference 499 00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.929 there and again, don't lead with products and features because they 500 00:34:54.929 --> 00:34:59.170 don't really care. You are then trying to explain to people that they're 501 00:34:59.170 --> 00:35:03.480 standing on an ant hill and they don't even know it. But when you do that, 502 00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:09.950 you're getting to them first, and that's a lot less crowded field. You 503 00:35:09.950 --> 00:35:13.500 would argue, in other words, somebody who's already looking, which is a small 504 00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:18.430 percentage of prospective customers. They're already starting to vet people 505 00:35:18.430 --> 00:35:22.760 and figure out what their options are. But when you are out there trying to 506 00:35:22.770 --> 00:35:27.370 make sales and and and and and outbound, as he says, it's actually less less 507 00:35:27.370 --> 00:35:31.210 crowded because in this day and age, everyone's waiting for the prospects 508 00:35:31.220 --> 00:35:34.160 Thio to come to them. And if that prospect doesn't realize they have a 509 00:35:34.160 --> 00:35:37.150 problem, they're not gonna go looking. You know, there's a lot of happy 510 00:35:37.160 --> 00:35:41.890 customers out there. So what's surprising, though, is he said, that 511 00:35:41.900 --> 00:35:48.520 rarely does he see companies with two different sales processes. They they're 512 00:35:48.520 --> 00:35:53.680 doing it all the same, and that's a big problem. So a lot of this book explains 513 00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:57.450 the many, many differences, some of which seems subtle but are very 514 00:35:57.450 --> 00:36:02.280 important about how, when you are actively prospecting to companies that 515 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.560 don't know that they might be helped enormously from your product or service, 516 00:36:06.570 --> 00:36:10.030 it's different. And one of the biggest, biggest things I took away from this 517 00:36:10.030 --> 00:36:13.490 book and I think he introduced it in an earlier book which I haven't read, was 518 00:36:13.490 --> 00:36:20.160 the A T l vs B t l above the line versus below the line. And what he's 519 00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:25.570 talking about is when you are selling to a below the line you might be 520 00:36:25.570 --> 00:36:29.170 selling to an end user. You know the person that's worried, they're 521 00:36:29.170 --> 00:36:34.040 concerned about the details and they're very much more product focus, and the 522 00:36:34.040 --> 00:36:38.230 person who's above the line might be a more senior person. And they are more 523 00:36:38.230 --> 00:36:44.210 concerned about bigger problems that the company has, and by the way, an A T 524 00:36:44.210 --> 00:36:49.380 L person, they could make a budget. The B T L is given a budget. The A T L can 525 00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:53.600 make a budget if they can see how your product can solve one of their big 526 00:36:53.610 --> 00:36:58.270 problems or fears. And one of the interesting things is he compared? The 527 00:36:58.270 --> 00:37:02.930 two is, he says, the 80 els above the lines they live in the past and the 528 00:37:02.930 --> 00:37:08.310 future and the beat eels live in the present, the here and now. So for me, 529 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:12.530 you know, having done sales for my agency, I was able to look back on 530 00:37:12.530 --> 00:37:18.220 every selling situation I've ever had and immediately realized if I was 531 00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:22.830 dealing with in a T l R B t l just it really it was like going to the eye 532 00:37:22.830 --> 00:37:25.350 doctor, and suddenly they put a lens in front of you and it's like, Oh, my 533 00:37:25.350 --> 00:37:31.140 goodness, that's s o much clearer but the book has ah whole lot of real 534 00:37:31.140 --> 00:37:35.240 specific stuff about, like cadences reaching out to a prospect. You should 535 00:37:35.240 --> 00:37:40.080 have within just a certain number of days, lots of grids. He talks a good 536 00:37:40.080 --> 00:37:45.210 bit about how to actively listen and and also make someone feel like they 537 00:37:45.220 --> 00:37:49.270 have been heard. And, you know, no, no surprise. Ah, lot of this is about 538 00:37:49.270 --> 00:37:54.860 following a process that can then be evaluated and improved and and iterated. 539 00:37:54.870 --> 00:37:58.870 So what did you think? Well, he's done a brilliant job of taking complex, 540 00:37:58.870 --> 00:38:01.890 potentially complex sale and simplifying to above the line and below 541 00:38:01.890 --> 00:38:05.500 the line, right, just like you said. And then and then he sort of talks 542 00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:10.170 about how they think, and these above the line people, they try to fill gaps. 543 00:38:10.180 --> 00:38:14.210 And so he a good analogy that he uses the train station. Yeah, that's right. 544 00:38:14.220 --> 00:38:19.230 Where basically the risk is that if you're being single threaded in your 545 00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:22.050 approach, you're not thinking like an above the line person because they have 546 00:38:22.050 --> 00:38:25.200 a lot of different priorities and things that they got a juggle so you 547 00:38:25.200 --> 00:38:28.400 can introduce and address, You know, many of those. But if you're only 548 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:32.260 hitting one, you're gonna You're missing the boat. Let me interrupt. He 549 00:38:32.260 --> 00:38:35.330 talks about how the below the line person is sort of like the engineer and 550 00:38:35.330 --> 00:38:38.490 the train that's gonna pull that one train out of the station when they're 551 00:38:38.490 --> 00:38:42.890 told you and an above the line person they're in charge of the train station. 552 00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:46.150 They've got several tracks, they've got several trains and they need to get 553 00:38:46.150 --> 00:38:51.020 those trains moving way. Have to tie this book into all the other three that 554 00:38:51.020 --> 00:38:54.210 we've done so far in that we're talking about messaging. And one of these, you 555 00:38:54.210 --> 00:38:58.220 says is Stop talking about yourself and then you know that you're right. Has to 556 00:38:58.220 --> 00:39:03.800 be less than 120 words, right? Oh, yeah. Really granular information and really 557 00:39:03.810 --> 00:39:08.380 voice messages. Yeah, Yeah, there's a ton of really I I don't even know what 558 00:39:08.380 --> 00:39:11.620 the account would be. It's There's probably a couple 100 really hardcore, 559 00:39:11.620 --> 00:39:15.220 very specific tips throughout the entire book. And all of his books were 560 00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:20.160 like that. They're excellent that way. So I thought it was That was good. One 561 00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:25.410 of the concepts towards the giving prospects homework to use Thio qualify 562 00:39:25.410 --> 00:39:28.370 them right. If they get a little homework, they're willing to jump 563 00:39:28.370 --> 00:39:31.000 through hoops. And that knows you know how to invest your time with that. But 564 00:39:31.010 --> 00:39:36.990 not me. This other book called The Perfect Clothes. Oh, my God, you wore 565 00:39:36.990 --> 00:39:40.480 yourself into my conscience is James hates when I talk about his book. But 566 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:44.730 just like the and when you're selling to someone, there's the continuance 567 00:39:44.730 --> 00:39:47.640 versus the advanced. I have the terminology, right? That's right. 568 00:39:47.640 --> 00:39:51.620 That's new rack. I'm not me. All right? So I'm sorry. So you say. Well, how 569 00:39:51.620 --> 00:39:55.400 about a proposal? And they say, Okay, sure. Well, that's, you know, it's not 570 00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:59.790 like they stuck their neck out at all instead, Anat Vance would be okay. Well, 571 00:39:59.790 --> 00:40:02.720 can we have your boss at the next meeting? Or, you know, there's 572 00:40:02.720 --> 00:40:07.080 something where you're having a expend a little career equity to move this 573 00:40:07.080 --> 00:40:10.700 ahead, and so you could have 20 different steps. That's fine. Just 574 00:40:10.700 --> 00:40:14.650 gotta make so that you throw the ball to them and they're going to hit it or 575 00:40:14.650 --> 00:40:20.900 not exactly. Exactly. Same concept. So, um, skips one. Take away on the 576 00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:24.500 interview anyway. was, in a word, change. Ah, customers really are 577 00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:28.280 needing help with change so focused on how you can help the customers with 578 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.860 change. Basically, is it the one thing that he thought that and again this 579 00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:35.130 ties back to what we heard in the other three books? Right? But you could do 580 00:40:35.130 --> 00:40:39.030 right away is be genuinely curious about them, about your customers. Focus 581 00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:43.890 on customers. And so now we've said it four times in a row. I think so. Like 582 00:40:43.890 --> 00:40:50.010 all Skips books, this book offers very ultra practical processes and tips for 583 00:40:50.010 --> 00:40:53.580 succeeding in outbound sales efforts. So again, again, two thumbs up. For me, 584 00:40:53.580 --> 00:40:56.420 this was like a knocked it out of the ballparks out of selections that you 585 00:40:56.420 --> 00:41:00.920 had way have similar interests in books. Otherwise I would lose you as a 586 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:06.220 listener. Probably so so. And that is it. So we this month books all 587 00:41:06.220 --> 00:41:09.170 phenomenal as usual. I loved all for the So tell us what new books we've got 588 00:41:09.170 --> 00:41:13.040 coming up on the marketing podcast. Well, the next time we gather, we'll be 589 00:41:13.040 --> 00:41:16.630 talking about five books. One of them the first is Friday. Forward. 590 00:41:16.610 --> 00:41:20.340 Inspiration, motivation to endure week stronger than It started By Robert 591 00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:26.110 Glacier. The Influencer Code. How to Unlock the Power of Influencer 592 00:41:26.110 --> 00:41:32.040 Marketing by Amanda Russell Ultimate Guide to Facebook Advertising by Perry 593 00:41:32.040 --> 00:41:37.140 Marshall, Thomas, Milos and Bob Rigorous. The Ministry of Common Sense. 594 00:41:37.150 --> 00:41:43.500 How to Eliminate Bureaucratic Red Tape. Bad Excuses and Corporate Bs by Martin 595 00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:48.720 Lindstrom and the smart marketing book The Definitive Guide to Effective 596 00:41:48.720 --> 00:41:53.660 Marketing Strategies by Dan White. And that's it for this month's B two b 597 00:41:53.660 --> 00:41:56.860 growth show book. Talk to learn more about the marketing book podcast, visit 598 00:41:56.860 --> 00:42:00.020 marketing book podcast dot com and to learn more about James and his 599 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:05.430 excellent book, The Perfect Close Visit. Pure mirror dot com, And that's spelled 600 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:11.830 P u r e m u i r dot com. And as I mentioned earlier, if either of us 601 00:42:11.830 --> 00:42:15.120 could recommend a specific sales or marketing book or other resource for 602 00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:19.280 whatever situation you find yourself in, connect with us on linked in, please 603 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:22.700 include a message well shot there to figure out what it is you're trying to 604 00:42:22.700 --> 00:42:26.260 learn more about. We'll do our best to get you pointed in the right direction 605 00:42:26.270 --> 00:42:32.840 and remember the words of the late great Jim Rohn formal education will 606 00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:37.890 make you a living. Self education will make you a fortune. 607 00:42:42.200 --> 00:42:46.510 Eyes the decision maker for your product or service. Abebe Marketer. Are 608 00:42:46.510 --> 00:42:49.820 you looking to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting? 609 00:42:50.200 --> 00:42:55.180 Consider becoming a co host of B two B growth. This show is consistently 610 00:42:55.180 --> 00:42:59.280 ranked as a top 100 podcast in the marketing category of Apple podcasts, 611 00:42:59.290 --> 00:43:04.620 and the show gets more than 130,000 downloads each month. We've already 612 00:43:04.620 --> 00:43:08.210 done the work of building the audience so you can focus on delivering 613 00:43:08.210 --> 00:43:13.210 incredible content to our listeners. If you're interested. Email Logan at sweet 614 00:43:13.210 --> 00:43:14.830 fish media dot com. 615 00:43:16.630 --> 00:43:17.240 Hmm.