Aug. 18, 2021

How to Make ABM More Personal for Large & Small Accounts

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Kristina Jaramillo who is the president of Personal ABM. Kristina shared her approach for how to get the attention of large accounts through a high customized and personal approach as well as some ideas for companies targeting small accounts.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.960 welcome back to BTB growth. I'm dan Sanchez with sweet fish media and I'm 3 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:13.900 here with Christina jaramillo, who is the president of personal A B. M. 4 00:00:13.900 --> 00:00:17.630 Christina, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me dan, I appreciate it and 5 00:00:17.630 --> 00:00:22.270 I was excited to talk to Christina because she focuses on my kind of 6 00:00:22.270 --> 00:00:27.700 favorite version of A B. M. But before we break into it, I wanted to kick it 7 00:00:27.700 --> 00:00:33.400 off, just dive right into the questions as far as how you define a B in and in 8 00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:36.400 and of itself because there's lots of different definitions of their, some 9 00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:39.800 people define it broadly, some people define it narrowly and there's all 10 00:00:39.800 --> 00:00:43.280 kinds of things in between. So Christina, let's jump into like how do 11 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:47.710 you define it? What is it, what is it not? Okay, so to me, A B M should be 12 00:00:47.710 --> 00:00:51.390 defined as a business strategy, focusing on fixing the challenges and 13 00:00:51.390 --> 00:00:54.890 revenue leaks that an organization might have, it's about getting more 14 00:00:54.890 --> 00:00:59.550 tier one I. C. P accounts that can provide more maximum lifetime value and 15 00:00:59.550 --> 00:01:04.709 greater revenue growth as well as growing existing accounts. But as you 16 00:01:04.709 --> 00:01:08.390 mentioned, a BMS definitions kind of all over the place. I think people are 17 00:01:08.390 --> 00:01:12.490 just taking in different directions and trying to fit where they think it fits 18 00:01:12.490 --> 00:01:17.150 and so it's gotten diluted and I think more recently the term A B. M has kind 19 00:01:17.150 --> 00:01:21.860 of been synonymous with the technology that enables it. So we're doing A B. M. 20 00:01:21.860 --> 00:01:25.040 Because we have demand base or we have six cents or we have terminus or 21 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.400 whatever. A BM technology and I think those tech tools are seen as, you know, 22 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:35.300 as a silver bullet, which is not the case. And so because of that, I think a 23 00:01:35.300 --> 00:01:38.530 lot of companies are treating A B. M as marketing as usual, but just with shiny 24 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:42.720 new tools, they're not focused on how A B. M should be that business strategy 25 00:01:42.720 --> 00:01:46.270 to fix those problems beyond just pipeline. So it's become about 26 00:01:46.270 --> 00:01:50.580 technology and tactics. Like last a couple of weeks ago I was talking to 27 00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:56.020 CMO of a channel sales and tech company and you know, her Ceo had introduced us 28 00:01:56.020 --> 00:02:00.130 because I shared with him that I believe their a B. M. program was 29 00:02:00.130 --> 00:02:04.620 missing 60% of the market because I knew that they were using six cents. So 30 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:08.840 when I got on the call with this CMO, I asked her automatically, what is your A 31 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:12.550 B. M strategy, what does it look like? And she started off by mentioning their 32 00:02:12.550 --> 00:02:16.600 textract, she said we use outreach we use and we use six cents marcato zoom 33 00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:20.910 info. So basically she was just talking about the tools they were using and she 34 00:02:20.910 --> 00:02:23.630 even mentioned that they were a case study for six months because they were 35 00:02:23.630 --> 00:02:28.700 using the platform correctly. And to me using six cents platform correctly, 36 00:02:28.700 --> 00:02:34.090 it's different from a B. M effective strategy. So what I really heard in her 37 00:02:34.090 --> 00:02:39.070 conversation was similar to a stat that I saw from I T S M A. I believe it was, 38 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:41.950 it said about two thirds of a BM organizations are not seeing 39 00:02:41.950 --> 00:02:46.360 significant business impact or improvement with their A B. M. Program. 40 00:02:46.370 --> 00:02:50.830 So I think she kind of fits into that because they might be treating it again 41 00:02:50.830 --> 00:02:54.500 as marketing unusual and just kind of using tools and saying that they're 42 00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:58.460 doing it. And she also mentioned that they were having a lot of deals going 43 00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:01.830 to their safer competitor, more comfortable choice, which was 44 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:07.500 Salesforce. And I think because they were treating A B. M. As a technology 45 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:12.230 versus a strategy, that was the problem that that was, you know, exacerbated by 46 00:03:12.230 --> 00:03:17.150 the fact. So I think it comes down to the fact that a lot of people think of 47 00:03:17.150 --> 00:03:21.580 technology as fitting as a B. M. And the tech being synonymous. But it's 48 00:03:21.580 --> 00:03:25.200 only one piece of the puzzle. To me, A B. M. Is not about campaigns and 49 00:03:25.200 --> 00:03:28.880 marketing unusual as usual. Like you start off strategic when you start 50 00:03:28.880 --> 00:03:32.580 campaigns, but the minute you focus on tech and then just those massive 51 00:03:32.580 --> 00:03:36.590 campaigns it's going to become tactical. Um and then you're not be able to get 52 00:03:36.590 --> 00:03:41.850 accounts to revenue. And you know, I think A B. M. Should really be focused 53 00:03:41.850 --> 00:03:45.180 on how you're going to get those tier one accounts to revenue, especially the 54 00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:48.780 ones that are disengaging with sales and marketing and put a strategy for 55 00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:54.170 getting those, you know, accounts to revenue. Technology just like content 56 00:03:54.170 --> 00:03:58.460 message is just a piece of the puzzle. Yeah, I do find it's an interesting 57 00:03:58.460 --> 00:04:02.500 case that I don't know there's two different approaches that I've seen and 58 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:06.680 I've had this with I I have these conversations I t most of all because I 59 00:04:06.690 --> 00:04:10.390 almost feel like some people are like, no, we decide what we want to have 60 00:04:10.390 --> 00:04:14.390 happen and then we go and find tools to accomplish that versus I'm actually 61 00:04:14.390 --> 00:04:18.269 going to reverse a lot as I find out what most of the tools can accomplish 62 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:22.240 and then based on what's possible. I go in reverse engineer what I think will 63 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:26.160 work best two different approaches. I find that I like to just kind of start 64 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.570 with what's possible and then kind of map a strategy to that. So I can kind 65 00:04:29.570 --> 00:04:32.440 of See them like using something like six cents and trying to get the most 66 00:04:32.440 --> 00:04:36.340 out of it. But at the same time I can certainly lead you astray because it 67 00:04:36.340 --> 00:04:39.900 can lead you doing things that you hadn't necessarily thought or that are 68 00:04:39.910 --> 00:04:43.400 actually going to lead you to your revenue goal. So that makes a ton of 69 00:04:43.400 --> 00:04:48.530 sense. And maybe maybe it was better than what they did before and just mass 70 00:04:48.530 --> 00:04:54.540 advertising across a huge, huge segment or persona, right? So at least they're 71 00:04:54.540 --> 00:04:59.940 focusing in on a few more accounts, but at the same time, hopefully they're 72 00:04:59.940 --> 00:05:04.070 tracking towards revenue, otherwise it could be a massive miss, right? And I'm 73 00:05:04.070 --> 00:05:07.320 sure across big organizations implementing these A B. M. Campaigns, 74 00:05:07.320 --> 00:05:10.690 it's it's it's hard to know if what you're doing is all mapping towards 75 00:05:10.690 --> 00:05:14.050 revenue, but I'd love to hear more like there's a lot of people that like to 76 00:05:14.050 --> 00:05:18.800 take the the one too many approach and the one too few approach, but where I 77 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:24.500 know you specialize in Is in that personal 1 - one approach. So I'd love 78 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:28.290 to hear more about what you guys are doing that personal A B. M as far as 79 00:05:28.300 --> 00:05:32.030 those 1 to 1 approaches. I know we have a few things we've done at sweet fish, 80 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.900 but I'm always looking to hear about how do we make marketing more personal? 81 00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:39.660 It's one thing to personalize it, but it's a whole different thing. It's like 82 00:05:39.670 --> 00:05:44.330 a totally it's a massive jump away from just personalization to be actually 83 00:05:44.330 --> 00:05:48.080 personal. Right? So what are the things that you guys are working on that you 84 00:05:48.080 --> 00:05:51.750 found works well there. Yeah, absolutely. I it's interesting that you 85 00:05:51.750 --> 00:05:55.530 mentioned personalization being different than being personal because I 86 00:05:55.540 --> 00:05:59.290 see a lot of people confusing the words and to me, personalization is maybe 87 00:05:59.290 --> 00:06:03.990 adding industry relevance or company relevance or role relevance or maybe 88 00:06:03.990 --> 00:06:08.050 even someone's name in a campaign versus getting to know what's what 89 00:06:08.050 --> 00:06:11.860 matters to them as a person, what matters to them as part of a smaller 90 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.080 team with an organization and what matters to them as an organization as a 91 00:06:15.080 --> 00:06:20.220 whole that's that's to me is personal. And with a B. M, the one too few one 92 00:06:20.220 --> 00:06:24.680 too many and 1 to 1 it needs to be a balance and I feel like people play 93 00:06:24.690 --> 00:06:28.630 really well, maybe in the one too few and one too many. And that 1 to 1 is 94 00:06:28.630 --> 00:06:33.660 where we saw a lack of programs. So that's what we focus. For example, we 95 00:06:33.940 --> 00:06:38.390 we're working with a company called Schneider national. There a three pl or 96 00:06:38.390 --> 00:06:41.730 a third party logistics firm out of Wisconsin, they have the big orange 97 00:06:41.730 --> 00:06:46.680 trucks with their name on it, you know, so they had a their messaging was about 98 00:06:46.690 --> 00:06:50.290 better people, better process and better technology. They were stuck in 99 00:06:50.290 --> 00:06:55.860 that kind of messaging and campaign framework for over five years and they 100 00:06:55.860 --> 00:07:00.840 were trying to gain traction with an organization called Sigma, which is a 101 00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:05.880 offshoot I believe of Cisco, Cisco with an S policy. And this particular 102 00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:10.280 company had heard Schneider's messaging that better people process tech from 103 00:07:10.280 --> 00:07:14.350 Schneider, but also from competitors because it was very similar to what 104 00:07:14.350 --> 00:07:18.160 everybody else was saying in the industry and they didn't see how that 105 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:22.180 was filling the gaps or personal impacts to give them a reason to change. 106 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:25.310 They didn't see themselves in that story that was being told, which is why 107 00:07:25.310 --> 00:07:29.110 they were ignoring any type of outreach. They were already ignoring email, 108 00:07:29.110 --> 00:07:34.490 social live phone conversations. So we took a look at their contacts and we 109 00:07:34.490 --> 00:07:38.310 started on linkedin, we saw that the Schneider's team had the right context. 110 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:42.640 The VP of sales even was connected to Sigma's VP of logistics on Lincoln, 111 00:07:42.640 --> 00:07:47.020 which is someone they would have to get in the decision making committee. But 112 00:07:47.020 --> 00:07:49.930 we noticed that sales did not have the right content and messaging to make 113 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:54.320 that human to human connection. So we redesigned profiles and content to show 114 00:07:54.320 --> 00:07:58.250 mid market firms like Sigma, how they were being underserved by their 115 00:07:58.250 --> 00:08:01.610 transportation management system, which is the TMS it's a solution or one of 116 00:08:01.610 --> 00:08:05.210 the many solutions that Schneider provides Schneider needed to show sigma 117 00:08:05.210 --> 00:08:09.030 that they were and other target accounts that were similar to them that 118 00:08:09.030 --> 00:08:11.810 they were kind of being treated like that middle child by their service 119 00:08:11.810 --> 00:08:15.040 providers because they weren't big enough to get the huge service 120 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.480 providers and get a lot of attention and they weren't small enough to go 121 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:22.470 with the more boutique kind of firms. They needed the team at sigma to 122 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:27.160 acknowledge the gaps they had and how they were impacting everything across 123 00:08:27.340 --> 00:08:32.240 uh the organization from operations to supply chain to the P. N. L. How is it 124 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:36.880 affecting employees any kind of KPI S They had service performance and 125 00:08:36.880 --> 00:08:41.700 customer performance. So ultimately, we created by Eurocentric profiles on 126 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:45.360 linkedin bio centric content and messaging that spoke to the human 127 00:08:45.370 --> 00:08:49.410 buyers versus at them within key accounts that they wanted to win, 128 00:08:49.410 --> 00:08:53.790 protect and expand this particular case. We were talking to sigma, you know, 129 00:08:53.800 --> 00:09:00.040 when you're speak to human buyers, you have to have industry, company rank 130 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:03.880 role and even personal relevance. But we've seen that a lot of sales and 131 00:09:03.880 --> 00:09:07.860 marketing communications kind of stops at what we said earlier, the the 132 00:09:08.540 --> 00:09:13.060 personalized which industry and company relevance and then personals when you 133 00:09:13.060 --> 00:09:17.410 add all of them together. And so once we were able to increase the relevance 134 00:09:17.420 --> 00:09:21.600 in, you know, across the board for Schneider, sigma and others that were 135 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:25.600 mid market targets for them were kind of pulling business development through 136 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:30.120 the sale cycle versus trying to like push them through. So we were able to 137 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:34.870 cut The sale cycle down to six months and Snyder was typically used to seeing 138 00:09:34.870 --> 00:09:39.280 12 to 18 months and then the account was they won the account and it was 139 00:09:39.280 --> 00:09:43.540 worth anywhere from 2 to 6 million depending on how they, how long they 140 00:09:43.540 --> 00:09:46.710 can retain them as a client and how long they keep up that personal 141 00:09:46.710 --> 00:09:51.230 relevance throughout the journey. It's a massive deal. So it sounds like they 142 00:09:51.230 --> 00:09:54.760 kind of had a positioning problem but they're probably like a very, I mean 143 00:09:54.760 --> 00:09:57.720 it's hard to position when you're like fully customizable, right? And lots of 144 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:00.960 people are playing that game. So I really like how you did the research to 145 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:06.020 find what I believe it, you said it was sigma, right? The customer they were 146 00:10:06.020 --> 00:10:11.070 targeting was they just did enough research on it to find and prove to 147 00:10:11.070 --> 00:10:14.510 sigma that what they could do would save them time would save the money 148 00:10:14.510 --> 00:10:18.360 would be beneficial for them. By doing enough research on sigma to be able to 149 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:23.000 say like this is how we can help you specifically how we help in general. 150 00:10:23.010 --> 00:10:27.310 How we can help you. Right. And that makes a massive difference. Does that 151 00:10:27.310 --> 00:10:30.890 mean you or like the marketing team just had to do a massive amount of 152 00:10:30.890 --> 00:10:33.700 research to figure out what they were using and how they were losing money 153 00:10:33.700 --> 00:10:37.110 and all that kind of stuff. Do you are you doing that with just sigma or do 154 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:41.020 you do it with like 10-20 accounts? Like how much how deep did you go to do 155 00:10:41.020 --> 00:10:44.490 that? And how with how many accounts? We typically work with a couple of 156 00:10:44.490 --> 00:10:48.010 dozen accounts but it's you know it's it's the goals that they were looking 157 00:10:48.010 --> 00:10:52.880 at. So we when we chose sigma we knew that it was going to have what kind of 158 00:10:52.880 --> 00:10:56.040 revenue potential it was going to have. So we only choose accounts that are 159 00:10:56.040 --> 00:11:01.130 worth 67 plus figures. Otherwise it requires so much time and so much 160 00:11:01.140 --> 00:11:05.350 effort and so much research and so much content creators. The message creation 161 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:10.280 we make sure that we know that they fit the I. C. P. To a. T. And that what is 162 00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:14.980 going on internally in that target account is going to fit really well. So 163 00:11:14.980 --> 00:11:18.810 we always go backwards and start with well what are you doing best with your 164 00:11:18.810 --> 00:11:21.460 current clients and not what you think you're doing best with your current 165 00:11:21.460 --> 00:11:25.200 clients, what do your clients think that you're doing best for them? And 166 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.750 then we, like you said reverse engineer who would be a target that you know 167 00:11:28.750 --> 00:11:32.120 what's an organ organization that looks very similar and might have similar 168 00:11:32.130 --> 00:11:36.040 things happening behind the scenes that we're not aware of. So that's why we 169 00:11:36.040 --> 00:11:40.010 work with a limited number of accounts and 1 to 1. But whatever we learn from 170 00:11:40.010 --> 00:11:45.030 our 1 to 1, we then can scale it by applying it to the one too few and one 171 00:11:45.030 --> 00:11:48.410 too many and those that are running maybe an A B. M. Tech or some other 172 00:11:48.410 --> 00:11:53.710 kind of campaign. And so that's the, when we play in that 1 to 1, how many, 173 00:11:53.710 --> 00:12:00.420 how many did you do? Like sigma? Was it just like just Yeah, no, there was a 174 00:12:00.430 --> 00:12:04.380 couple of handfuls, but that was the quarter where they wanted to win. Their 175 00:12:04.380 --> 00:12:08.840 particular Snyder's goal was to increase revenue with a new client 176 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:13.340 versus another time we had done it with an existing client that they wanted to 177 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:16.650 expand and just make sure that they retained. So it depends on the quarters, 178 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:19.210 you know what their goals are. Each company has goals. Do we want to 179 00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:22.820 protect our at risk accounts? Do we want to expand current accounts? Do we 180 00:12:22.820 --> 00:12:26.900 want new logos, but again, they have to be really lucrative accounts because 181 00:12:26.900 --> 00:12:31.720 this is a time heavy approach, that makes sense. And so you're saying, what 182 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:35.590 I'm hearing you say is your kind of handling 12 at a time, whatever the 183 00:12:35.590 --> 00:12:40.240 priority is for that quarter you're kind of going after. I mean this, I 184 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:43.600 mean this is like the top of the pyramid, right? This is the 1 to 2 185 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.760 accounts that you really want to focus on are going all in on. So that makes a 186 00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:52.920 ton of sense. What do you do, let's say for audiences listening who have some 187 00:12:52.920 --> 00:12:56.300 really big contracts but they're not millions were in the high hundreds of 188 00:12:56.300 --> 00:12:59.950 thousands. What do you typically do with your own clients that are in that 189 00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:04.420 size? That's a similar approach? You know, what our focus is also is, you 190 00:13:04.420 --> 00:13:07.150 know, are we trying to shorten sail cycle times? Like another thing, not 191 00:13:07.150 --> 00:13:11.360 only do we get a good big deal with that particular story told, but we did 192 00:13:11.370 --> 00:13:16.330 cut the sale cycle by a third, which is awesome in itself. So it depends if 193 00:13:16.330 --> 00:13:19.440 that's their goal. Do we want to even expand deal sizes? Do we see that 194 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.580 there's an opportunity for that because it's a similar approach, but it is, 195 00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:27.700 take a lot of research into what's going on. So what do we use intent data 196 00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:32.270 depending on if that's something that's available to us? Do we see what's going 197 00:13:32.270 --> 00:13:36.820 on? Are they an acquisition mode? Are they just get a lot of funding so that 198 00:13:36.830 --> 00:13:41.030 it's a similar approach. It's just a case by case but it does require a lot 199 00:13:41.030 --> 00:13:45.360 of, lot of research. So what we do is we're not a stand alone marketing were 200 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:48.570 usually like a supplement to marketing because they can't necessarily have 201 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:54.260 time or the resources to do what we do. What aspect to usually help assistant. 202 00:13:54.270 --> 00:13:56.930 Do you do the research or do you just kind of set up like the overall 203 00:13:56.930 --> 00:14:01.050 framework of like, well here's the problem and here are some solutions of 204 00:14:01.050 --> 00:14:05.650 how we can help guide. Yeah, we do strategy and execution. So we'll start 205 00:14:05.660 --> 00:14:10.620 of you know what the problems that we are that we see again depending on what 206 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:16.630 their goal is expansion retention, new logo but we do the research, we create 207 00:14:16.630 --> 00:14:20.540 the content to support that research and we kind of, we work with sales 208 00:14:20.540 --> 00:14:25.740 really well because we our marketing specifically for sales conversations 209 00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:29.050 that they want to have. So we will create case studies, we will create 210 00:14:29.050 --> 00:14:32.790 white papers, we will create row actual articles to support the selling 211 00:14:32.790 --> 00:14:36.940 conversation. Um and I actually have an example of that when we can get to a 212 00:14:36.940 --> 00:14:41.740 little later but that's what we do. So we do it from start to finish and then 213 00:14:41.750 --> 00:14:46.020 then whatever we use or what we create can be used in the campaign. So like if 214 00:14:46.020 --> 00:14:49.860 we create a case study or an article we can use it in the one too few or one to 215 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:53.710 many campaigns and see, you know, this is this is the framework that really 216 00:14:53.710 --> 00:14:58.580 worked along with this segment of this industry. What are some other 217 00:14:58.580 --> 00:15:01.710 approaches? It sounds like you're really heavy and like essentially 218 00:15:01.710 --> 00:15:05.740 putting together custom proposals is how you're becoming the most personal, 219 00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:10.320 so you're creating marketing collateral, maybe even landing pages and stuff that 220 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:15.240 are completely customized for the one account which is highly personal. Tell 221 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.080 me a little bit like what that looks like tactically like what are the kinds 222 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.260 of elements you're producing or in collaboration with these marketing 223 00:15:21.260 --> 00:15:25.610 teams in order to get these things in front of the a counter or you sending 224 00:15:25.610 --> 00:15:31.050 it pretty much is like a customized white paper to the main account. Um, we 225 00:15:31.050 --> 00:15:34.130 might be sending customized content of the main account, but we don't 226 00:15:34.130 --> 00:15:39.590 necessarily call them out by name. So we kind of allude to what we know is 227 00:15:39.590 --> 00:15:43.740 going on, what we've heard is going on in the company. Um, you know, if we've 228 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:48.750 heard it from news or research that we found or even from Champions, Internal 229 00:15:48.750 --> 00:15:51.520 Champions in the organization that might not be decision makers, but are 230 00:15:51.520 --> 00:15:54.720 telling us, you know, we're having problems with X, Y, Z. And we really 231 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.630 think that you can help us and we'd show how what they're doing right now 232 00:15:58.630 --> 00:16:02.960 can better be either improved or if they need to switch vendors or whatever 233 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:08.130 the case may be. So we're doing it that way. We're not actually. So it's it's 234 00:16:08.130 --> 00:16:14.730 more, it's not necessarily customize as it names the the prospective client, 235 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:18.800 but it can be used as an evergreen piece later on. If that makes sense. 236 00:16:18.810 --> 00:16:22.210 Makes a ton of sense. And it sounds like it's really, it's almost like 237 00:16:22.210 --> 00:16:25.800 farther, it's much farther down the funnel where you're working probably as 238 00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:28.270 much with sales as you are with the marketing at that point. I mean if 239 00:16:28.270 --> 00:16:31.840 you're focusing on one or two accounts at the time than sales probably speaks 240 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:36.450 a lot into it and but you're still generating marketing assets that can be 241 00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:41.900 used up the funnel. So that's what are some other approaches you've taken that 242 00:16:41.900 --> 00:16:46.490 you found work well Personal, A. B. M. So one thing that we're really big on 243 00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:51.360 and a lot of our clients are kind of either just getting started with this 244 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.490 or they see that it's an issue, they just don't know how to address it. We 245 00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:59.550 have shown them that there can't be a handoff between sales and marketing. So 246 00:16:59.550 --> 00:17:03.520 once the selling conversation begins, marketing needs to be there along the 247 00:17:03.520 --> 00:17:08.200 way. So whatever sales learns, um, during their internal conversation or 248 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:12.190 their conversations with the prospects or maybe a demo call whatever they need 249 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:15.470 to share that information so that marketing can come along and support 250 00:17:15.470 --> 00:17:20.060 them with another piece of collateral that might or maybe even some talking 251 00:17:20.060 --> 00:17:23.950 points for the next time. So I'll give you an example. We were working with an 252 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:28.900 e commerce tech firm that learned in a good way. Not the hard way um that 253 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:33.130 sales and marketing has to continue to work hand in hand. They were using a 254 00:17:33.130 --> 00:17:37.410 BMT conversations with the health care health care product firm and this 255 00:17:37.410 --> 00:17:43.090 product firm served long term care facilities, skilled nursing assisted 256 00:17:43.090 --> 00:17:47.770 living hospice V. A. Hospitals. And the firm wanted to move from a traditional 257 00:17:48.140 --> 00:17:52.760 old school phone and fax system to modern self service e commerce platform. 258 00:17:53.140 --> 00:17:57.610 But the firm had two sides of the business to support the new purchases 259 00:17:57.610 --> 00:18:02.370 that were strong demand uh And rentals. And our client software was designed 260 00:18:02.370 --> 00:18:06.570 specifically to integrate with S. A. P. C. R. P. Um That didn't have the 261 00:18:06.570 --> 00:18:10.870 capability at the time to meet the needs of the rental business. So 262 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.480 despite having these teams team calls, seeing a demo executing the executive 263 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:19.360 buying committee at the health care product firm was still hung up on the 264 00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:23.930 rental side of the business. What they didn't see is the risks, the costs um 265 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:28.770 impacts of choosing an e commerce platform that sat outside their er P. 266 00:18:28.770 --> 00:18:33.360 But would accommodate both sides of the business. So instead of keeping them, 267 00:18:33.370 --> 00:18:36.900 what they were looking to do is get everything under one solution. And it 268 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:40.150 was going to be difficult because there was gonna be some holes. Sales was 269 00:18:40.150 --> 00:18:43.510 trying to have further conversations with the team but the VP of I. T. Was 270 00:18:43.510 --> 00:18:47.630 basically acting as their gatekeeper and kept the distance between sales and 271 00:18:47.630 --> 00:18:51.150 the buying team. So it was really hard you know to have these internal 272 00:18:51.150 --> 00:18:53.860 conversations because all the requirements were being collected in a 273 00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:57.260 vacuum so instead of giving them the time to make the wrong decision, 274 00:18:57.260 --> 00:19:01.040 marketing sales work together to create a consensus in their favor. So what we 275 00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:05.680 did was we created content to show the effect of working outside ASAP with a 276 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:10.900 platform like maybe magenta and the impact that it would have on go to live 277 00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:15.500 on performance on P. N. L. And on corporate initiatives because I. T. 278 00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:20.090 Would have to be tied up for at least 6 to 12 months on this e commerce project. 279 00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:24.450 So by showing how their decision to go the other way was going to affect them 280 00:19:24.450 --> 00:19:30.030 in different ways They were able to work together to ensure when with sales 281 00:19:30.030 --> 00:19:33.810 and marketing versus going that 5050 chance that the buying team would make 282 00:19:33.810 --> 00:19:38.110 their decision in their favor. So we kind of help them see the bigger 283 00:19:38.110 --> 00:19:42.390 picture as opposed to one little piece of the puzzle and that was made it 284 00:19:42.390 --> 00:19:45.950 easier for them to make the right decision or in our favor. I should say 285 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.200 makes a lot of sense. I've been not in huge company has been some mid sized 286 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:53.690 companies. I've been the decision maker. I'm like large Crm purchases and 287 00:19:53.690 --> 00:19:57.520 different things like that and I'm like man if I would have had a sales where 288 00:19:57.520 --> 00:20:00.360 it would have been delivering me that information to help make a case to my, 289 00:20:00.370 --> 00:20:04.220 to my people who are arguing against me. I would have been like so much, it 290 00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:08.020 would have been so much easier. That makes a ton of sense from being that 291 00:20:08.270 --> 00:20:11.610 you're just kind of like you're, you're asking me all these questions. I don't 292 00:20:11.610 --> 00:20:14.560 have all the answers. But if my vendor who's trying to sell to me, he's 293 00:20:14.560 --> 00:20:19.260 actually like, there you go. You're just like Just do this. You're 294 00:20:19.270 --> 00:20:21.910 interesting that one person who's really rooting for you inside that 295 00:20:21.910 --> 00:20:26.160 organization. Right. Exactly. That's the idea. I'm curious to know if you 296 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.760 have any campaign ideas for people who want to do personal A B. M. Who are 297 00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:35.390 like in the way, way down like their average contract sizes are in the tens 298 00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:39.440 of thousands and a. R. R. And maybe over the long long haul if they have 299 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.150 annual recurrent revenue can add up to a lot, but generally they're not, 300 00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:45.510 they're not making that big of a game with each new customer. How do you 301 00:20:45.510 --> 00:20:51.010 become more personal with a B. M. If your, if your contract sizes and that 302 00:20:51.010 --> 00:20:55.400 tens of thousands range. So first of all I would talk to these sales people 303 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:59.430 and tell them to take a look at their linkedin profile. Does it look like 304 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:03.720 you're looking for a new role because you're talking to me about your 305 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:08.330 President Club awards quote after quote unquote attainments, how much you've 306 00:21:08.330 --> 00:21:12.790 made in the last couple of years for your company because me as a prospect 307 00:21:12.790 --> 00:21:16.620 and I know my clients have said this as well the minute they see that, you know, 308 00:21:16.630 --> 00:21:19.290 a wall goes up because they know they're going to be sold, the minute 309 00:21:19.290 --> 00:21:24.140 they accept the connection, change it to be story based. How are you helping 310 00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:27.430 your buyers? How have you helped them recently so that other people can kind 311 00:21:27.430 --> 00:21:32.040 of see themselves in that story. So if you come across as a seller, it's 312 00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:35.030 harder. But if you come across as someone that's developing or sharing 313 00:21:35.030 --> 00:21:38.690 value and giving relevant value, it will make it much easier to open that 314 00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:43.860 door to a connection and possibly a conversation down the line. If you can 315 00:21:43.870 --> 00:21:48.030 teach people they're going to be much more open to, you know, speaking with 316 00:21:48.030 --> 00:21:53.810 you. So it makes a lot of sense. And rewriting linked in profiles is good. I 317 00:21:53.820 --> 00:21:56.840 still want to put that in like the personal category, right? You're 318 00:21:56.840 --> 00:22:01.820 offering content to be more relevant for sure. But are there any ways to 319 00:22:01.820 --> 00:22:05.270 make it more personal where you've actually customize something to that 320 00:22:05.270 --> 00:22:10.370 company? Customsize that to the company? Yeah, I think just before you send like 321 00:22:10.370 --> 00:22:13.510 if you know that you're trying to win a specific organization or just get even 322 00:22:13.510 --> 00:22:17.050 closer towards a deal with an organization? Think about what you're 323 00:22:17.050 --> 00:22:20.940 sending them. Are you sending them just that next piece or that next touch in 324 00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:23.640 your cadence. So you know, we need to have 10 touches before they're going to 325 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:29.320 get to this stage in the buying journey or is it actually relevant to them? Or 326 00:22:29.320 --> 00:22:32.780 if you're going to send them a piece of collateral, I've been sent white papers 327 00:22:32.790 --> 00:22:37.750 or case studies or e books that are hundreds of pages long and I'm not 328 00:22:37.750 --> 00:22:41.360 going to read the entire thing before you pick me again next week. So if 329 00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:44.420 you're going to send me that, tell me to read page five through 10 or 330 00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:47.530 whatever and say, I want you to read this because I know you're going to be 331 00:22:47.530 --> 00:22:51.430 interested in X, Y, Z. So that gives you that other layer of relevance as 332 00:22:51.430 --> 00:22:55.010 opposed to a copy and pasted email that looks like you just sent it to everyone. 333 00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:58.440 You took the time to know well I'm interested in this, this is going to 334 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:02.880 help me do my job better and make me better and you took that extra time. 335 00:23:02.890 --> 00:23:05.760 You know, it's not a lot of effort. I think people just think it's gonna be 336 00:23:05.760 --> 00:23:09.000 too time consuming so they automatically don't want to do it. But 337 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.900 if you take that extra couple of minutes to say that I know this is 338 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:15.430 going to be important to you because and I'm not just reaching out to you to 339 00:23:15.430 --> 00:23:19.550 add to my number of touches in Salesforce or whatever it is, people 340 00:23:19.550 --> 00:23:23.130 are gonna know the difference. Yeah, it does make a huge difference. And even 341 00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:26.170 think about it is on linkedin now have, 342 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.810 I don't know, I'm pretty active on linkedin. So people ask me questions 343 00:23:29.810 --> 00:23:32.970 about podcasting, but I'll take the time to go to Sweet Fish Media dot com. 344 00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:35.920 Search for an episode we've done on that find and send it to him. Right? 345 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:39.660 That's that little customized touch that says like, hey, I heard you, I saw 346 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:44.560 you and uh, here's, here's my best way I can help you in a short amount of 347 00:23:44.560 --> 00:23:49.790 times. I can't spend too much time on like an individual account, but you can 348 00:23:49.790 --> 00:23:53.420 still customize it. You can still make it personal. Yeah, you can still put in 349 00:23:53.420 --> 00:23:57.270 the extra effort and people notice it right away. Is there anything else you 350 00:23:57.270 --> 00:24:02.770 do with large accounts that help it to become more person? All more human? 351 00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:10.030 Yeah, I mean you have to well, let me just put it put it this way, I, we 352 00:24:10.030 --> 00:24:14.130 think of every interaction. So every touch point, whether it's an invite to 353 00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:17.380 connect, it's an email, it's a phone call, it's a voicemail, whatever it is 354 00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:23.020 that you're doing. However you, you run your sales or marketing team, Every 355 00:24:23.020 --> 00:24:29.090 touch point has to be relevant because it has to talk to what the people are 356 00:24:29.090 --> 00:24:32.630 interested or speak to the person and what's interesting to them or what's 357 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:39.600 what's happening in their world and if it's not relevant then you can set 358 00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:44.750 yourself back because every person, every every interaction is kind of like 359 00:24:44.750 --> 00:24:48.470 a sales conversation. If you're not adding value in building layer upon 360 00:24:48.470 --> 00:24:52.840 layer each time then people are gonna notice. And like you said it shows that 361 00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:56.910 you've actually taken the time to to hear what they had to say to learn a 362 00:24:56.910 --> 00:25:00.230 little bit about them. Um And wherever you're getting your info, if you're 363 00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:02.810 getting it from the news, if you're getting it from intent data, if you're 364 00:25:02.810 --> 00:25:05.790 getting it from zoom info, if you're getting it even from their website 365 00:25:05.800 --> 00:25:09.610 because a lot of websites put their press releases and what they're their 366 00:25:09.610 --> 00:25:13.100 bosses are. You know like if you're looking at a mid market company and it 367 00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:18.500 says the Ceos goal for the next year is to increase new increase revenue by X. 368 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:20.590 Percent. That's something that's relevant to them because you know that 369 00:25:20.590 --> 00:25:23.020 that's going to be trickling down to them eventually. So see how you can 370 00:25:23.020 --> 00:25:27.690 speak to that and it just it shows that you're actually interested and you're 371 00:25:27.690 --> 00:25:30.760 not just wanting to sell them, you want to actually become a partner to them. 372 00:25:30.770 --> 00:25:35.160 Um And every single interaction has to answer that. So don't just hit send, 373 00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:38.830 don't just do something for the sake of doing it. Don't just make a phone call 374 00:25:38.830 --> 00:25:41.950 to make a phone call figure out what the intent is behind it because the 375 00:25:41.950 --> 00:25:47.610 intent is really important. Fantastic. I want to ask one last question. If 376 00:25:47.610 --> 00:25:51.430 somebody wanted to get started with personal A B. M. And I don't have a 377 00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:55.360 full A. B. M. Program implemented already. What's the way they can kind 378 00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:59.330 of like start and get tests and test the idea before they start to develop 379 00:25:59.330 --> 00:26:03.920 something that's more robust? Yeah. So let's do it from the sales point of 380 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.180 view. Pick a couple accounts that you want. That note that you fit your I. C. 381 00:26:07.180 --> 00:26:10.690 P. Don't just pay accounts you said oh these will look good on my ball of 382 00:26:10.690 --> 00:26:14.750 clients. Do they fit you? Do they fit your company? Can you solve their 383 00:26:14.750 --> 00:26:18.450 problems better than other people? Can you address the issues that they're 384 00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:21.770 having and then kind of do a little bit of research and do a little bit of 385 00:26:21.770 --> 00:26:25.000 homework even if you have to do it on your down time about those accounts and 386 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.400 who are they, who are the target people that you need to connect with and reach 387 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:33.030 out to them and however you reach out, If you use linkedin, if you use email, 388 00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:37.570 make sure that you have some relevance and test it out with one or two 389 00:26:37.570 --> 00:26:40.690 accounts at first and see how it goes. And you might have to put a little time 390 00:26:40.690 --> 00:26:43.990 and effort into it and see how that goes and then you can try to scale it a 391 00:26:43.990 --> 00:26:47.040 little bigger and then hopefully get a little more buy in for maybe the rest 392 00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:50.760 of your team. Um see if you can kind of launch a pilot program that's a little 393 00:26:50.760 --> 00:26:54.670 bigger than that based on your findings are, but I think take time to teach 394 00:26:54.670 --> 00:26:58.870 yourself to always learn what's going on in your target accounts because I'm 395 00:26:58.870 --> 00:27:03.560 sure if one account is having an issue, then more accounts are going to be 396 00:27:03.560 --> 00:27:06.030 having that issue and it's just going to help you in the long run because 397 00:27:06.030 --> 00:27:10.480 this, the personally BM approach the 1 to 1 approaches the long game. It's not 398 00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:15.720 gonna be, I'm gonna get results since 30 days, it's more like 60 9100 and 20 399 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.050 days. So think of it that way. Don't think of, you know, instant 400 00:27:19.050 --> 00:27:22.660 gratification because that's not the way this is gonna work. That's perfect. 401 00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:26.350 So Christina, thank you so much for joining me on GDP growth. Where can 402 00:27:26.350 --> 00:27:32.450 people go to learn more about personal a b M and connect with you online? Yeah, 403 00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:36.490 personally BM dot com is great. We also have another resource called Stop the 404 00:27:36.490 --> 00:27:41.170 sales drop dot com. It's a podcast. We've done some events, We've done some 405 00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:46.220 videos, there's articles from our team as well as guest posts. So it's a free 406 00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:51.700 community that people can just kind of learn from and reach out to me on 407 00:27:51.710 --> 00:27:55.830 linkedin. I'm there all the time and give me some relevant reason as why we 408 00:27:55.830 --> 00:27:59.360 should connect, not just you listen to me on the podcast and it's Kristina 409 00:27:59.360 --> 00:28:03.330 with a K. Fantastic. Thanks again for joining me on GDP growth. Thanks so 410 00:28:03.330 --> 00:28:03.860 much dan 411 00:28:05.840 --> 00:28:12.840 Gary V says it all the time and we agree every company should think of 412 00:28:12.840 --> 00:28:17.850 themselves as a media company first, then whatever it is they actually do. 413 00:28:18.340 --> 00:28:22.150 If you know this is true, but your team is already maxed out and you can't 414 00:28:22.150 --> 00:28:26.550 produce any more content in house. We can help, we produce podcasts for some 415 00:28:26.550 --> 00:28:30.470 of the most innovative BB brands in the world and we also help them turn the 416 00:28:30.470 --> 00:28:35.500 content from the podcast and blog posts, micro videos and slide decks that work 417 00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:38.890 really well on linked in. If you want to learn more, go to Sweet fish Media 418 00:28:38.890 --> 00:28:44.560 dot com slash launch or email Logan at sweet fish Media dot com.