How to Align Sales & Marketing to Accelerate Growth

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:09.750 Hello and welcome to the BDB gross show. Monthly Book Talk I'm Douglas Burnett, 2 00:00:09.750 --> 00:00:12.620 host of the marketing book Podcast, where each week I published an 3 00:00:12.620 --> 00:00:15.820 interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help Me and 4 00:00:15.820 --> 00:00:19.080 my listeners keep up with the latest ideas and the quickly changing world of 5 00:00:19.080 --> 00:00:23.480 marketing and sales. And joining Me is my friend James Muir, author of The 6 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:28.390 Perfect Close. The Secret to Closing Sales in this monthly episode of the 7 00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:31.640 GDP Growth show. We recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales 8 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:36.280 books recently featured on the marketing book Podcasts, and I read 9 00:00:36.290 --> 00:00:40.700 every book featured on the marketing book Podcasts. But James he's even more 10 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:45.400 books than Ideo, and he listens to every episode of the marketing book 11 00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:49.430 podcast. So I'm delighted that he conjoined me and a lot of listeners ask 12 00:00:49.430 --> 00:00:53.640 us for book recommendations. So if either of us can recommend any 13 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.600 marketing or sales books or other resource is for whatever situation you 14 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.670 find yourself in or what you'd like to learn more about, please feel free to 15 00:01:00.670 --> 00:01:05.459 connect with us on LinkedIn include a message so we know you're not a spammer, 16 00:01:05.470 --> 00:01:11.580 and then we'll chat there with you, and we'll do our best to get you pointed in 17 00:01:11.580 --> 00:01:16.620 the right direction. James, welcome back to the B two b Grow Show book talk. 18 00:01:16.630 --> 00:01:20.610 Thank you, Douglas. You know, I read every book and listen to every episode 19 00:01:20.610 --> 00:01:24.800 and I won't lie. You are on a roll when it comes to guests. You have some 20 00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:30.060 phenomenal people on your show. I'm very fortunate. Yeah, no doubt. No 21 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:32.820 doubt in this episode of book talk, we're going to talk about the flight. 22 00:01:32.820 --> 00:01:35.890 You said the four most recent books featured on the marketing with Podcast, 23 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:39.800 which are the practice shipping creative work by none other than Seth 24 00:01:39.800 --> 00:01:44.070 Godden. Also Revenue Growth Engine. How to Align Sales and Marketing to 25 00:01:44.070 --> 00:01:49.140 Accelerate Growth by Darryl Amy. We also have interaction Field, the 26 00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:53.060 revolutionary New Weight to create shared value for businesses, customers 27 00:01:53.060 --> 00:01:59.160 in society by Eric Yoke Installer and finally, the six disciplines of agile 28 00:01:59.160 --> 00:02:03.200 marketing proven practices for more effective marketing and better business 29 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:08.830 results by Jim you'll on. Like I said, Douglas Burnett is a marketing icon 30 00:02:08.830 --> 00:02:13.220 magnet for some reason, And so opposites attract Yeah, you know, 31 00:02:13.230 --> 00:02:18.270 they're Ugo Well, So first up, we've got the practice shipping creative work 32 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:22.470 by marketing legends Seth Godin. So tell us about your interview with Seth 33 00:02:22.470 --> 00:02:27.930 Godin. Seth Godin writes books that get in my head like none other. In other 34 00:02:27.930 --> 00:02:35.060 words, he s so I mean, truly, he's got a knack for it. He is so smart. And and 35 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:39.140 I say that in a couple of ways. But one of them is that he'll use 300 words 36 00:02:39.150 --> 00:02:43.210 when the rest of us would need 3000. It's It's amazing, and I should also 37 00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:48.820 add He is a really classy guy. He's a really very nice, very considerate, 38 00:02:48.830 --> 00:02:54.260 wonderful person. And he's so he's just a nice as he is smart. And in this book 39 00:02:54.270 --> 00:02:59.200 he it's, you know, somewhat philosophical. But it's really very 40 00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:04.560 effective. And and here's who the book is for anyone that creates any kind of 41 00:03:04.570 --> 00:03:10.090 content, Really? So you could be ah, singer. You could be a musician. You 42 00:03:10.090 --> 00:03:15.360 could be a blogger. You could be an author, a podcaster, anyone that has to 43 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:21.060 create anything, a painter on a consistent basis. This is the book, and 44 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.660 if you've been doing it for a while, this is where the book is really 45 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:28.970 resonates with you. And he talks about these things that are like I say, 46 00:03:28.980 --> 00:03:33.440 really in my head. And he pierces a lot of head trash that those of us who 47 00:03:33.440 --> 00:03:38.810 create content, you know, wrestle with Yeah, and he talks about topics like 48 00:03:38.810 --> 00:03:44.380 the fact that skill is not the same as talent and a lot of people who think 49 00:03:44.380 --> 00:03:47.780 they aren't talented. Actually, if they just work on their skills, they're 50 00:03:47.780 --> 00:03:52.720 gonna be more successful. And another one of the big concepts in the book is 51 00:03:52.720 --> 00:03:58.330 that a good process can lead to good outcomes, but it doesn't guarantee them. 52 00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:02.510 And I'm sure when you heard that James Muir, you probably thought of anyone 53 00:04:02.510 --> 00:04:07.460 who follows the sales process. So you know, back to that notion of if you 54 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:13.990 control the process and the output. If you control your process, it can lead 55 00:04:13.990 --> 00:04:18.010 to the right things. But don't torture yourself that they're not, but it's not 56 00:04:18.010 --> 00:04:21.079 always gonna work out. But if you have a consistent approach to creating 57 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:26.580 content or prospecting, good things ultimately happened. And even in the 58 00:04:26.580 --> 00:04:30.060 interview, he said, You know, tomorrow is like when I'm like maybe his 7000 59 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:34.390 block post. He writes a block post every day, and he said, Is tomorrow 60 00:04:34.390 --> 00:04:38.680 gonna be the most popular one I've ever done? I don't know, but I showed up and 61 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.710 I just keep going. One other thing that he talks amongst many in the book is 62 00:04:42.710 --> 00:04:48.570 that there is no such thing as writer's block. Yeah, yeah, and the funny thing 63 00:04:48.570 --> 00:04:53.240 about the book is that he explains thes things, and I'm left with nowhere. 64 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:56.950 There's no rebuttal. It's like, Oh, yeah, I'm busted. You're right, you're 65 00:04:56.950 --> 00:05:01.370 absolutely right. A couple of the things he talks about is that and again, 66 00:05:01.370 --> 00:05:05.250 this kind of relates to sales, but also any kind of marketing content now he 67 00:05:05.250 --> 00:05:09.660 refers to is like shipping your work or shipping your art. But he reminds you 68 00:05:09.660 --> 00:05:15.450 that it doesn't seek to create comfort. You are seeking to create change, right, 69 00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:20.500 particularly a sales situation, and he goes on to explain that change requires 70 00:05:20.500 --> 00:05:25.890 tension. You've got to create some tension in the person who is receiving 71 00:05:25.890 --> 00:05:29.920 this work that you're creating, and, uh, one of the things you mentioned is we 72 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:33.680 commit to making people uncomfortable in the short run, so we could be 73 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.290 hospitable later. But if you're we're all looking for some kind of change, 74 00:05:38.290 --> 00:05:41.700 you know, I'm sure you've seen it in many books where people say anybody 75 00:05:41.700 --> 00:05:45.240 that's selling or marketing, we're all in the business of some kind of change. 76 00:05:45.250 --> 00:05:50.370 You're asking people to do something else. And another thing you know, again 77 00:05:50.370 --> 00:05:54.950 amongst many that were on this show, uh, in the book is that when it comes to 78 00:05:54.950 --> 00:05:58.870 creating content and of course he writes this and then I look back over 79 00:05:58.870 --> 00:06:01.880 the years and I realized, Gosh, she's absolutely true Says you can produce 80 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:08.540 Mawr then you know, if you are intent on doing it for someone else on DSO, 81 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:12.680 that's where if you could again take yourself out of the equation, it's like 82 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:18.200 with my podcast. I might have a book on this show, and it might be something 83 00:06:18.200 --> 00:06:21.260 I'm already familiar with, but I'm personally interested in seeing how 84 00:06:21.260 --> 00:06:25.040 they presented. But I also know that just talking about that is gonna help a 85 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.420 lot of people, and there's really nothing better than knowing that you're 86 00:06:28.430 --> 00:06:33.750 helping people. So I thought I found that interesting and one other thing 87 00:06:33.750 --> 00:06:37.890 that he had, I'll mention, and then we could get to you. Is that on this one 88 00:06:37.890 --> 00:06:43.740 page? And I've got the book right here. Page 1 50. He talks about intentional 89 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:47.280 actions, and when you're creating content, you're trying to be 90 00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:52.050 intentional. And he has thes six lines. And I thought, You know, everyone who 91 00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:58.860 does a content plan or even a marketing plan should get this carved in stone 92 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:04.320 and just put it on the front every time. And like number one, I'm going to read 93 00:07:04.320 --> 00:07:11.790 these number one. Determine who it's for, learn what they believe, what they 94 00:07:11.790 --> 00:07:15.850 fear and what they want. Okay, so I mean, just think about developing a 95 00:07:15.850 --> 00:07:19.460 product. Determine who it's for. Product market Fit is one of the 96 00:07:19.460 --> 00:07:24.980 biggest failures of businesses. Yeah, learn what they believe, what they fear 97 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:29.860 and what they want. Number two. Be prepared to describe the change you 98 00:07:29.860 --> 00:07:35.260 seek to make, at least to yourself. In other words, articulate. What that 99 00:07:35.260 --> 00:07:39.920 changes is, you know, think about that in marketing content or even if you 100 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.120 know, again, if you're in sales, you're trying to paint that picture of what 101 00:07:44.130 --> 00:07:47.370 the outcome could look like. And then the number three is care enough to 102 00:07:47.370 --> 00:07:51.770 commit to making that change. So if you understand what the changes and how 103 00:07:51.770 --> 00:07:55.540 that could benefit, people, commit to it. Believe in it. And then number four 104 00:07:55.540 --> 00:08:01.280 is ship work that resonates with the people. It's for again. It's not you. 105 00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:04.590 Yeah, and you may actually be creating content for the wrong people. You may 106 00:08:04.590 --> 00:08:08.350 be selling to the wrong or trying to sell to the wrong people. Number five. 107 00:08:08.350 --> 00:08:14.380 Once you know whom it's for and what it's for, watch and learn to determine 108 00:08:14.390 --> 00:08:21.910 whether your intervention succeeded. Basically illiterate. Pay attention. Uh, 109 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:26.750 and, uh, number six Repeat. So it's a very different type of book, but I was 110 00:08:26.750 --> 00:08:31.640 very excited Thio to read it and and speak to him about it. Yeah, I think 111 00:08:31.650 --> 00:08:35.809 listeners might want to know that this each chapter is a short, memorable 112 00:08:35.809 --> 00:08:39.240 nugget with antidotes that really stick with you. I mean, nobody writes more 113 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:44.150 concisely than Seth Godin does, so I mean, he cuts right to the thick of it, 114 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.280 which is why he could write such an efficient book. And I That's by the way. 115 00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:50.520 Those are my favorite absolute favorite. I Why spend an hour to tell me 116 00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:54.060 something you could tell me in 10 minutes, Right? It's like 100 notes 117 00:08:54.060 --> 00:08:58.080 over 200 chapters, but each one's really, really short. Yeah, and they're 118 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.060 considered. I mean, like, you could just just one and then move on, right? 119 00:09:01.060 --> 00:09:03.940 I mean, they are if they are in sections, but essentially each one kind 120 00:09:03.940 --> 00:09:07.250 of stands on its own. So I think it's that makes it an easy read. You could 121 00:09:07.250 --> 00:09:10.790 just pick up, you know, when you have a minute at the bus stop or whatever 122 00:09:10.790 --> 00:09:15.370 you're doing. And, yeah, and actually, what I should have said, Every person 123 00:09:15.370 --> 00:09:21.450 who creates any kind of content, who's any kind of creator. What his book does 124 00:09:21.460 --> 00:09:27.550 is shows you which ones are successful. Another. There's a pattern to what 125 00:09:27.550 --> 00:09:30.950 they're doing. It's like any book that's been I've read about creativity. 126 00:09:30.950 --> 00:09:34.420 It talks about how it's really not about lightning in a bottle. It's a 127 00:09:34.420 --> 00:09:39.480 process that you follow and a set of beliefs that make you really successful. 128 00:09:39.490 --> 00:09:43.400 Yeah, and of course, that ties right back into the practice, which is it's 129 00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:46.090 not magic, right? You're not just genetically born, creative or not 130 00:09:46.090 --> 00:09:49.420 creative, it's more about the effort of the practice that, you know, I say this 131 00:09:49.420 --> 00:09:53.660 way, the harder I work, the luckier I get. Right. So, yes, that's what he's 132 00:09:53.660 --> 00:09:56.810 saying, right? Just show up, right? In fact, I think that his one take away 133 00:09:56.810 --> 00:10:00.820 was Get out of your own way and just start wherever you're at. Don't get, 134 00:10:00.830 --> 00:10:03.870 you know, don't get all the arranging getting I'm getting ready. I'm getting 135 00:10:03.870 --> 00:10:06.540 ready. I'm getting ready. Just start wherever you are. Yeah, So much of the 136 00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:09.940 book talks about the fear. And as I mentioned earlier, the head trash that 137 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:14.550 we tell ourselves as to why we can't be successful. Yeah, that's the main 138 00:10:14.550 --> 00:10:17.720 thrust of the book. Is is just dismantling the miss around creative 139 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:21.350 output and the keys just to get started and develop the practice. Thus, the 140 00:10:21.350 --> 00:10:23.960 title of the book. And I really think it's something that everyone can 141 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:27.340 benefit from it. Even though, you know, this was a marketing book podcast. I 142 00:10:27.340 --> 00:10:30.570 really think that I I was super motivated by reading the book. Yeah, I 143 00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:35.450 feel very energizing so, uh, very broad audience. I think it appreciate this 144 00:10:35.450 --> 00:10:39.270 book. Yeah, I found it very inspiring. But you know what? He didn't create 145 00:10:39.270 --> 00:10:43.980 comfort. I think I think he created change in my head. So there you go. A 146 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:48.420 little short term. Well played, Mr Go. Yeah, absolutely. And he's famous for 147 00:10:48.420 --> 00:10:52.610 that. So anyway, two thumbs up for me on that book. That was awesome. Read 148 00:10:52.610 --> 00:10:57.080 and I'd recommend it to anyone. Next up, we've got revenue growth engine. How to 149 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:01.040 align sales and marketing to accelerate growth by Darryl, Amy and full 150 00:11:01.040 --> 00:11:04.880 disclosure. Darryl, Amy and I are friends, and I got to read an advanced 151 00:11:04.890 --> 00:11:08.210 version of this book, but he made it even better. I wish. I think it's a 152 00:11:08.210 --> 00:11:10.700 version that you read. So tell us a little bit about your interview with 153 00:11:10.700 --> 00:11:14.940 Darrelle Amy. Oh, well, yeah, I didn't get advanced. Copy. He contact me after 154 00:11:14.950 --> 00:11:21.100 you got the improved version? Yes, The James Muir new, improved version. Well, 155 00:11:21.110 --> 00:11:24.750 this book, of course. Anyone who listens to the market with podcast 156 00:11:24.750 --> 00:11:28.960 knows that I like books that talk about how to grow a business and revenue and 157 00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:33.190 aligning sales and marketing. So this was like the perfect storm of my 158 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:39.300 favorite topics. And I have had over 300 books on this show. And, you know, 159 00:11:39.300 --> 00:11:43.340 I get to pick the books. So they're all really books I like. And, uh, but in 160 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:46.650 their good books Yeah, I and I really, really like this one. And I gotta 161 00:11:46.650 --> 00:11:50.860 explain why from a personal standpoint, you know, agency owner helping 162 00:11:50.860 --> 00:11:55.680 companies This was the book that I would have wanted to write, and maybe I 163 00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:58.310 still could. But people I would say, Oh, you read these books. Why don't you 164 00:11:58.310 --> 00:12:02.040 write one? I say, Well, I'm too busy reading them, but, you know, this is 165 00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:06.780 the one that got me so excited. And here's why it got me excited. On a 166 00:12:06.780 --> 00:12:10.950 personal standpoint is the things that he wrote about in the book. I knew 167 00:12:10.940 --> 00:12:15.150 every problem that he was describing because I hadn't gone through it with a 168 00:12:15.150 --> 00:12:22.150 client. And in the book, he talks about revenue and growing revenue, and he 169 00:12:22.150 --> 00:12:25.650 basically said there were two epiphanies he had about growing revenue. 170 00:12:25.660 --> 00:12:32.210 One is the way to grow. Revenue is you get more clients and then you sell more 171 00:12:32.210 --> 00:12:36.580 to your current clients. Okay, get mawr and sell more to your current clients. 172 00:12:36.590 --> 00:12:42.270 And the second big epiphany of the book, and this, and of his journey is that 173 00:12:42.280 --> 00:12:47.310 knowing who your ideal client is can really accelerate growth. So, you know, 174 00:12:47.310 --> 00:12:51.490 he talks about how most companies only focus on one of the two drivers, in 175 00:12:51.490 --> 00:12:55.950 other words, there either focusing on just trying to get new customers or 176 00:12:55.950 --> 00:13:00.400 they're working really hard on cross selling and selling to existing clients. 177 00:13:00.400 --> 00:13:05.120 But they're not doing the Net new, and he's just as very rarely do companies 178 00:13:05.130 --> 00:13:10.590 do both. And so in the book he, as I mentioned earlier, he talks about how 179 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:15.770 knowing exactly who your ideal client is, and from my perspective, too many 180 00:13:15.770 --> 00:13:18.700 companies don't do this where they think about. All right, well, this is 181 00:13:18.700 --> 00:13:21.740 who are current clients are. But let's think for a minute about who our best 182 00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:26.040 clients have ever been and dream for a minute. About what if we got just a few 183 00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:30.540 more of those and I mean, you've probably seen that where the or the 184 00:13:30.540 --> 00:13:34.650 worst. You know, I don't wanna limit myself, so I want to sell. Yes, yes, 185 00:13:34.650 --> 00:13:39.440 but if you could just start to focus in on who your ideal client would be, 186 00:13:39.450 --> 00:13:43.260 that's what you should be putting your marketing and your sales outbound sales 187 00:13:43.260 --> 00:13:46.050 efforts on and the thing that he said in the book that was somewhat 188 00:13:46.050 --> 00:13:50.560 controversial, he said. You don't need leads if you already know who your 189 00:13:50.560 --> 00:13:55.970 ideal prospects are. Just I was just shocked by him saying that. But of 190 00:13:55.970 --> 00:14:00.590 course it makes a lot of sense. And the other thing is, one of the other things 191 00:14:00.590 --> 00:14:05.180 he talked about is everything. He talks about his book. You can tell that he 192 00:14:05.180 --> 00:14:08.140 has perfected through the use of workshops and actually working with 193 00:14:08.140 --> 00:14:13.550 clients on this. There's not a lot of theory. So he talks about how you do in 194 00:14:13.550 --> 00:14:17.010 fact, need to think about the experience that you're providing to 195 00:14:17.010 --> 00:14:20.750 your customers. You know, like, how are you on boarding them? Are you having 196 00:14:20.750 --> 00:14:23.920 periodic business reviews and not periodic business reviews, where you're 197 00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:27.150 talking about your new products and services, but where you're figuring out 198 00:14:27.150 --> 00:14:32.410 what their actual goals are and seeing if they're they're hitting them? And 199 00:14:32.420 --> 00:14:37.580 one of the other things that he talks about, which is so super relevant to 200 00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:41.560 any kind of marketing and sales, is that talking about your products and 201 00:14:41.560 --> 00:14:47.130 services first and foremost is disastrous on he goes into detail 202 00:14:47.130 --> 00:14:51.940 explaining why that's such a bad idea. Instead, the really successful 203 00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:57.080 companies talk about the outcomes that customers are looking for, its simple 204 00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:00.870 principle to say. But Super, super, super hard implement. Yeah, yeah, 205 00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:05.290 exactly, yeah, clients by because by outcomes, they don't buy products. Yeah, 206 00:15:05.290 --> 00:15:07.610 they don't really care about your products and services. They really 207 00:15:07.610 --> 00:15:10.490 don't even after their customers. They don't care. They're interested in 208 00:15:10.490 --> 00:15:13.690 themselves. That drives some of the strategy that he mentions in the book. 209 00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:16.420 That's why he says, You start on case studies. There's all these things you 210 00:15:16.420 --> 00:15:18.780 want. People think that they should start with. But he feels like you 211 00:15:18.780 --> 00:15:22.410 should be starting with the case studies because that is documenting the 212 00:15:22.410 --> 00:15:25.700 outcomes. And that's what people are really buying exactly. That's why he 213 00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:29.010 was saying that marketing people, one of the most important things they 214 00:15:29.010 --> 00:15:33.490 should be doing is doing case studies. Now. You want to do them correctly. It 215 00:15:33.490 --> 00:15:37.440 needs to be about the outcome your customers were looking for and how you 216 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.790 were able to help him. Now you see the order I went there. The company wasn't 217 00:15:40.790 --> 00:15:48.330 first it was customers that yes, yes, so it's and And in his book, every 218 00:15:48.330 --> 00:15:52.900 section, there are entire books written about some of the key points that he 219 00:15:52.900 --> 00:15:56.150 talks about, you know, for greater depth. But anyway, he just talked about 220 00:15:56.150 --> 00:16:01.410 how most marketing messages do not begin with outcomes and related to 221 00:16:01.410 --> 00:16:07.780 sales. He explains that the job of sales people is to bring latent needs 222 00:16:07.790 --> 00:16:12.830 to the surface to create felt needs. In other words, not asking if they need 223 00:16:12.830 --> 00:16:16.290 more product helped them understand they might be standing on an ant hill, 224 00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:19.380 and they don't even realize it. I mean, this is stuff that I'm sure you're 225 00:16:19.390 --> 00:16:24.230 explaining to all your clients, uh, every day, But it was just so nicely 226 00:16:24.230 --> 00:16:27.510 tied together, and it's not a you know. It's not the longest book in the world, 227 00:16:27.510 --> 00:16:31.030 but it for me it was like, You know how sculpture, you know, you just kind of 228 00:16:31.030 --> 00:16:34.790 remove the parts that don't need to be there. Yeah, he was able to put it 229 00:16:34.790 --> 00:16:39.170 together. It's he's really got a He's a very salient writer. He's telling you 230 00:16:39.170 --> 00:16:42.660 all the levers that you need to pull in your business. He's keeping but not 100 231 00:16:42.660 --> 00:16:46.160 of them, he says. You just which ones? And here's the best analogy is you know, 232 00:16:46.160 --> 00:16:50.100 the engine. So in other words, he's explaining that if you have an engine 233 00:16:50.110 --> 00:16:55.310 in your car and let's say it's got four cylinders or six and you're only 234 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.960 operating, one of only one of the cylinders is gonna work, it's not gonna 235 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:03.340 get you very far. It's probably gonna ruin the engine. So he's showing you 236 00:17:03.350 --> 00:17:07.290 the different cylinders that you need to be. Just cylinders need to be 237 00:17:07.290 --> 00:17:10.790 focused on. Yeah, I'll need to be firing right, And in that sense, it 238 00:17:10.790 --> 00:17:13.940 reminds me a little bit of last time where we talked about J. Abrahams 239 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:17.050 talking about all these different strategies and then using them 240 00:17:17.060 --> 00:17:20.560 cumulatively can create exponential growth. And that's kind of he gives you 241 00:17:20.560 --> 00:17:24.349 a little mathematical formula at the beginning of the book that is an eye 242 00:17:24.349 --> 00:17:28.200 opener that you don't you know, for people that think it's all about net 243 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:31.550 new customers or people that think it's all about cross selling, his point is 244 00:17:31.550 --> 00:17:35.980 really that it's about both, especially if you identify your your ideal 245 00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:38.820 customer. Yes, one of the things you mentioned the interview is that if 246 00:17:38.820 --> 00:17:42.790 you're focused on getting Net new customers, it's, um, or linear growth 247 00:17:42.790 --> 00:17:48.300 trajectory. But when you are able to sell more to your current customers, 248 00:17:48.310 --> 00:17:52.330 its's somewhat more exponential. Yeah, in fact, that's that's just take away. 249 00:17:52.330 --> 00:17:55.690 It's for folks to change their mindset about that, right? And I think if you 250 00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:59.210 surveyed most companies, they would tell you that they're not top priority 251 00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:03.690 is finding new business when they potentially was sitting on a goldmine 252 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:07.090 with their existing clients that they could cross. He calls it Cross selling 253 00:18:07.100 --> 00:18:10.220 Net new and cross selling us the terms. Yeah, and there's been some books on 254 00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:13.130 the show about just selling more your current customers. And it seems so 255 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:15.980 counterintuitive to so many of the companies that I talked to. And I was 256 00:18:15.980 --> 00:18:21.350 on a doing a webinar this year, and one of the questions was about, you know, 257 00:18:21.350 --> 00:18:25.350 modern marketing was more sort of a presentation for, like more senior 258 00:18:25.350 --> 00:18:29.120 people, just to kind of help them understand the concepts, and it was 259 00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:32.510 based on a conversation I had with a friend who became the CEO of a 260 00:18:32.510 --> 00:18:36.380 manufacturing company, he says. Doug, what am I supposed to understand here? 261 00:18:36.390 --> 00:18:39.830 What can I ignore? What about what are these people supposed to be doing for 262 00:18:39.830 --> 00:18:43.680 me? But it one of the people said, You know, if you only had a dollar spend on 263 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:47.060 marketing, what would you invested in? And I said, Well, I wouldn't invest a 264 00:18:47.060 --> 00:18:51.660 nickel of it on getting any new customers. I would first focus on the 265 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:55.580 experience I'm providing to my customers and determining if there's 266 00:18:55.580 --> 00:18:58.500 more that I could sell to them, because it's much faster revenue. It's an 267 00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:03.340 easier sale. It's less risky for them. Yeah, and what's may be related to that 268 00:19:03.350 --> 00:19:06.460 if you have, ah, minimum amount to invest and where you're going to do it, 269 00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:10.150 it's understanding why your clients really by right actually talk to 270 00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:13.580 customers. He talks about that right? And we've heard that how many times, 271 00:19:13.580 --> 00:19:17.530 right? All of the most successful folks do this, but yet it never It never gets 272 00:19:17.530 --> 00:19:20.960 old in terms of repeating, because so many people violate that. One basic 273 00:19:20.970 --> 00:19:24.770 rule is this. Understand why you're calling us really by and take the time 274 00:19:24.770 --> 00:19:27.820 to actually go out and talk to your customers? Because, well, you already 275 00:19:27.820 --> 00:19:30.620 clients, right? How expensive is it to go? Find out why they really bought it 276 00:19:30.630 --> 00:19:34.440 instead of Hey contrast in the book, he says. You know, some people think it's 277 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.250 all about the r. A. Y. That's what the salesperson will tell you, why they 278 00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:39.640 bought. But when you go ask the customer, they've come up with these 279 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:43.660 really different stories about why they actually bought. And those are the 280 00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:47.230 little pearls that you can use and leverage in, You know, all of your 281 00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:51.150 messaging and in the face to face dialogue. Yeah, he told a funny story 282 00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:55.380 about how he was helping a client years ago with their case studies so he would 283 00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:58.590 go and talk to the customers. And I think maybe the company he was working 284 00:19:58.590 --> 00:20:01.790 with, they didn't have a marketing person. So he was helping out, and he 285 00:20:01.790 --> 00:20:05.470 would ask the sales guys. He talked to them first, you know, to get get up to 286 00:20:05.470 --> 00:20:08.180 speed on who he was gonna be calling and they would say would say, Why do 287 00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:10.770 you think they buy from? And they said, Always save the money. They save the 288 00:20:10.770 --> 00:20:14.830 money. We're adding a lot of value. Got a good prices and then he would go 289 00:20:14.830 --> 00:20:18.660 interview all these customers and they would talk about anything else, All 290 00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:23.910 these other things they liked about him. And he would say, uh that they never 291 00:20:23.910 --> 00:20:27.630 mentioned Price. There's were clearly not important things to them, even 292 00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:31.540 though that's what all the sales guys were saying. Uh, customer experience 293 00:20:31.540 --> 00:20:34.930 obviously relates to that, too. And then there's a synergy there with 294 00:20:34.930 --> 00:20:39.640 customer experience, where it effects your cross selling and referrals, which 295 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:43.760 is a whole another. Probably the most effective lead generation strategy. 296 00:20:43.760 --> 00:20:47.260 There is this. Just get clients. Just send the other clients. Yeah, too many 297 00:20:47.260 --> 00:20:51.100 folks want, like a nisi button or a silver bullet. And there's actually a 298 00:20:51.110 --> 00:20:54.120 handful of things that the fastest growing companies are the most 299 00:20:54.120 --> 00:20:58.780 successful companies focus on in this book shows it, I would say a implied 300 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:01.930 throughout the entire book that we haven't mentioned yet is a very it's 301 00:21:01.930 --> 00:21:07.350 very strong on repeatable process, about about process. So if you're gonna 302 00:21:07.360 --> 00:21:11.950 you know, once you engage a customer, we're going to do X many steps. I e 303 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.790 mean and he applies that throughout the entire book, not just the generation 304 00:21:15.790 --> 00:21:19.600 and all that. But let me add to that. He talks about how a lot of your 305 00:21:19.610 --> 00:21:25.730 business departments follow processes quite well. You know, HR, Finance, 306 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:31.510 Accounting, production Service. But he talked about how marketing and sales, 307 00:21:31.520 --> 00:21:35.540 unfortunately, they don't follow a process much. It's like Just get me in 308 00:21:35.540 --> 00:21:40.580 the room with them and I'll sell to or or they're not very effective often 309 00:21:40.580 --> 00:21:43.460 doing that. And he's saying, You know, process isn't a bad thing. It's not 310 00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:45.980 like an all or nothing. But if you can introduce more process to your 311 00:21:45.980 --> 00:21:49.720 marketing and sales, you will be more successful. How funny is that There 312 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.590 will be talking about alcohol marketing here in a little bit. Right file feels 313 00:21:53.590 --> 00:21:57.280 right into that. So, yeah, here's one take away, which I mentioned before is 314 00:21:57.280 --> 00:22:00.620 just to change your mindset about growth. Realize that it's a it's both 315 00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:04.150 about net new and cross selling not either or. And if you pay attention to 316 00:22:04.150 --> 00:22:06.760 both, then you'll get dramatic increases. And then one thing he 317 00:22:06.760 --> 00:22:11.330 thought that listeners could go dio is developed. A focused message. Right is 318 00:22:11.330 --> 00:22:14.310 your message really resonated with clients in the best way to do that is 319 00:22:14.310 --> 00:22:18.880 to talk about the outcomes. But more importantly, talk to your customers. So 320 00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:23.040 right, Yeah. Anyway, he's really like I said, I love writers that can clearly 321 00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:26.710 communicate and right, just enough to get the job done and no more. And this 322 00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:30.380 book is very practical in sailing it that way. Honestly, I think what every 323 00:22:30.380 --> 00:22:33.390 salesperson, marketer and business owner could benefit from reading this 324 00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:41.430 book. E would no doubt, Josh, what do you think is the most irritating thing 325 00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:45.000 for B two B buyers right now, an Logan. I love talking to you about this. You 326 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.770 know that the number one challenge right now is that many customer facing 327 00:22:49.770 --> 00:22:54.080 teams in the B two B space right now are forcing their potential buyers, too, 328 00:22:54.080 --> 00:22:57.900 by the way that they want to sell. Buyers don't wanna buy that way right 329 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:02.600 now. They wanna, by the way they want to buy. We need to enable those buyers. 330 00:23:02.600 --> 00:23:06.720 We call this buyer enablement at sales reach. We need to enable those buyers 331 00:23:06.730 --> 00:23:11.120 to make better decisions quicker in a comfortable environment that's more 332 00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:14.800 personalized for them to move forward with that process. Dude, that's awesome. 333 00:23:14.800 --> 00:23:18.360 I couldn't agree more since I've been using sales reach in my own sales 334 00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:22.860 process. It's allowed me to really enable the buyer to move more quickly 335 00:23:22.860 --> 00:23:26.460 in really two ways. One, they don't have to download a bunch of attachments. 336 00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:30.700 Aiken send them toe one page with the proposal. Case studies Different 337 00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:34.440 resource is because, let's face it, the proposal is just one part of the sales 338 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.580 conversation and probably on Lee one sales enablement piece of content that 339 00:23:38.580 --> 00:23:42.610 you're sending so it makes it easier on them. And then the other thing is, you 340 00:23:42.610 --> 00:23:46.080 know, we're selling to our champions, and then we're making them have to re 341 00:23:46.080 --> 00:23:49.670 give our pitch to the entire buying committee. So one thing I do is put a 342 00:23:49.670 --> 00:23:53.960 custom 2 to 3 minute video on the top of my sales reach page. This says, Hey, 343 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.040 here's all the resource is tie it back to the conversation. Here's the 344 00:23:57.040 --> 00:24:00.480 proposal. Let me know if you have any questions, and it allows me to give a 345 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.820 little bit of kind of a mini pitch to the rest of the buying committee, 346 00:24:03.830 --> 00:24:07.720 introduce myself, which helps me build trust and credibility and helps the 347 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:12.540 buyer not have to repeat the entire pitch from scratch. So if anybody is 348 00:24:12.540 --> 00:24:15.780 looking to do the same thing in their own sales process, I'd highly suggest 349 00:24:15.780 --> 00:24:19.030 they reach out to you and the team over its sales. Reach for anybody listening. 350 00:24:19.030 --> 00:24:25.260 Just go to sales reach dot io to talk to Josh and the team. All right, well, 351 00:24:25.260 --> 00:24:28.860 next up, we've got the interaction field, the revolutionary new way to 352 00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:33.500 create shared value for businesses, customers in society By Eric Yocum, 353 00:24:33.500 --> 00:24:39.080 Stahler and and this book offers a different approach into the traditional 354 00:24:39.080 --> 00:24:43.070 value chain. The way we think of it, he calls it interaction, fields and how 355 00:24:43.070 --> 00:24:46.370 companies can leverage that concept for strategic growth. So tell us a little 356 00:24:46.370 --> 00:24:51.080 bit about your interview with Eric. Is the Austrian, German German. Don't get 357 00:24:51.080 --> 00:24:55.610 those mixed up, those people fighting with each other all the time. Careful s 358 00:24:55.610 --> 00:24:59.160 Oh, this was a really smart book, and he's a really smart guy, PhD and all 359 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:01.970 that sort of thing, and it probably made me a little bit smarter, which is 360 00:25:01.970 --> 00:25:08.060 hard to do because you're so smart. No, because I have so far to go. That's why, 361 00:25:08.060 --> 00:25:10.330 yeah, that's why you get all these really smart authors just because 362 00:25:10.330 --> 00:25:15.680 they're clearly not threatened by the host. More getting book podcast Just so 363 00:25:15.690 --> 00:25:19.280 there were, If I were smarter, I wouldn't have to read so many books. 364 00:25:19.290 --> 00:25:23.140 There was a book, Gosh, what 20 years ago called the Clue Train Manifesto, 365 00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:27.600 which was really oppression, what is explained pretty much where everything 366 00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:32.000 went, where everything was going with the Internet and just amazing. And the 367 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.190 similarly Seth Godin, who we mentioned earlier in 1999 he wrote this book 368 00:25:36.190 --> 00:25:40.150 called Permission Marketing. Yeah, and I saw him speak at the inbound 369 00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:44.790 conference years later, and he joked that he says I was there for the first 370 00:25:44.790 --> 00:25:48.600 inbound conference when I wrote this, but it's the only one that knew it. 371 00:25:48.610 --> 00:25:54.520 Everything went to in the direction of where he was saying it was going. This 372 00:25:54.520 --> 00:26:00.200 book may very likely be a similar thing where this might not help you tomorrow 373 00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:05.960 with marketing and sales and that type of thing, but it was just fascinating. 374 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:10.520 It's the type of book I like to include every once in a while. So he explains 375 00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:14.230 that there are, you know, there's the value chain kind of company, which is 376 00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:18.440 the traditional where you have all the different steps in the value chain and 377 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:21.280 you're creating a product and you're delivering. And that's been with us for, 378 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:24.980 I guess, almost forever. And then he talks about you know, there's other 379 00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:28.910 kinds of businesses like these platforms, right, that come along in 380 00:26:28.910 --> 00:26:33.350 more recent years, like a Facebook or an Amazon or uber that type of thing. 381 00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:40.320 Well, he quotes Mackenzie a study they did that said about 30% of all global 382 00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:45.760 revenues in four years are gonna be accounted for by interaction, field 383 00:26:45.770 --> 00:26:52.280 style ecosystems and you. It's a little tricky to explain, but he says that 384 00:26:52.940 --> 00:26:58.390 rather than looking for transactions, you're looking for interactions. And if 385 00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:02.970 you wanna build a company that is an interaction field type company, I'll 386 00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:06.550 give you an example of something John Deere is doing right now, he says. You 387 00:27:06.550 --> 00:27:10.720 have to design and build with these three that these three elements have to 388 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:15.070 be there. Okay, so there's like a nucleus of participants and then an 389 00:27:15.070 --> 00:27:20.590 ecosystem of partners, okay? And and contributors and then a group of market 390 00:27:20.590 --> 00:27:25.200 makers that exert influence on the field. So an example would be now John 391 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:28.390 Deere is a value chain company, but they've ventured out into this 392 00:27:28.390 --> 00:27:32.320 interaction field really successfully, So it's not like they had to get rid of 393 00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:36.940 their old business. But basically they the straw that stirs the drink and 394 00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:40.100 interaction field. It's all this data that's being collected in this machine 395 00:27:40.100 --> 00:27:44.350 learning. Okay, so he talks about examples of the book where there are 396 00:27:44.350 --> 00:27:47.720 platforms that are collecting data, but they're not interaction field companies, 397 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:50.870 and they're probably gonna go away, and they should be doing it the way he 398 00:27:50.870 --> 00:27:56.540 explains. So with John Deere, they have this ability to you know how everything 399 00:27:56.540 --> 00:27:59.810 is connected, the Internet of things. Almost everything is connected now, 400 00:27:59.810 --> 00:28:06.090 your fridge. You know, pretty soon, yeah, maybe the chip in your dog so it 401 00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:09.580 could take your temperature or whatever, but everything is is connected. Okay, 402 00:28:09.580 --> 00:28:13.540 so we're talking about all that, and they've set up this separate division 403 00:28:13.540 --> 00:28:18.910 where they are getting their customers John Deere customers, as well as people 404 00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:25.060 that have competitive brands, and they are collecting data on their on in that 405 00:28:25.060 --> 00:28:29.860 case, their farm equipment, and they're pumping in even more data. So they're 406 00:28:29.870 --> 00:28:36.380 starting to collect all this big data about weather and geographic location 407 00:28:36.380 --> 00:28:40.720 of that particular tractor and exactly what it is they're planting and how 408 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:45.350 deep their planting it and what day of the year it is. So you're collecting 409 00:28:45.350 --> 00:28:47.570 all this data and then what happens is 410 00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:55.240 all that data gets shared. In other words, there they're just not just with 411 00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:58.780 John Deere, but with others. But in other words, they're able to. So all 412 00:28:58.780 --> 00:29:02.610 the seed companies, for instance, are able to look at that data and say, Oh, 413 00:29:02.620 --> 00:29:07.940 are products work better when they're planted two inches down instead of one? 414 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:12.600 Or, you know, the fuel company or all these people can look at all the shared 415 00:29:12.600 --> 00:29:17.530 data and start to figure out how they can be more helpful. And so they're all 416 00:29:17.530 --> 00:29:22.540 sharing data with each other, and, you know, it seems counterintuitive that 417 00:29:22.540 --> 00:29:25.360 you would want to do that. But he says more and more companies are starting to 418 00:29:25.360 --> 00:29:31.300 share all this data in a more open source way so that all the people in 419 00:29:31.300 --> 00:29:36.440 the ecosystem can benefit. And the last part was about the market makers. And 420 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:40.420 that's where, for instance, like let's say, the United States, there's a 421 00:29:40.420 --> 00:29:44.390 Department of Agriculture. Well, they might really start promoting that 422 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:48.530 because that's really valuable data and they would like it and they have a lot 423 00:29:48.530 --> 00:29:52.990 of sway legislatively. Or maybe there's some other like, really big company 424 00:29:52.990 --> 00:29:57.000 that would buy into this. So those three things start to create this 425 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:01.160 interaction field, and it was it kind of blew my mind. I had no idea that 426 00:30:01.170 --> 00:30:05.150 this is so many companies are doing this. And then I started to see how 427 00:30:05.150 --> 00:30:09.480 Mawr and more of these interaction fields will probably start to start to 428 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:13.890 grow and proliferate. Yeah, I thought I was. This is a mind expanding book. 429 00:30:13.900 --> 00:30:16.680 Like you said, it's one of those one sort of at the early stage of a new 430 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:20.670 development that you think, Wow, you know, 20 years from now we might be 431 00:30:20.670 --> 00:30:24.410 seeing how everyone does this, but his you know, his take away is that years 432 00:30:24.410 --> 00:30:27.540 ago, this would only be possible for a large company, right? There would be 433 00:30:27.540 --> 00:30:30.170 hard to do these kinds of things. But now, with the technology that we have 434 00:30:30.170 --> 00:30:34.630 available to us, really, all companies of all sizes can participate in these 435 00:30:34.630 --> 00:30:39.130 three parts of the strategy, which is this nucleus of participants, you know, 436 00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:43.220 an ecosystem around that and then engaging these market makers. And so 437 00:30:43.230 --> 00:30:47.200 the idea is just to synergistically share this data that causes all the 438 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.190 players to grow, right? Yeah. I mean, again, it seems counterintuitive. Like, 439 00:30:52.190 --> 00:30:54.830 why would we share this data? I mean, you got to read the book that explains 440 00:30:54.830 --> 00:31:00.090 exactly how it works. And it was It kind of rewired my business brain 441 00:31:00.090 --> 00:31:04.320 because I started to realize like, Oh, and I see these examples. He talks 442 00:31:04.320 --> 00:31:08.970 about Alibaba's doing. He talks about John Deere Una Steel Company in Germany 443 00:31:08.970 --> 00:31:14.020 and and on on fashion brands all this type of thing. So it was very 444 00:31:14.020 --> 00:31:18.980 interesting, and I'm now kind of on the look out for more examples of what I 445 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:22.130 learned in the book. Yeah, me, too. I'm going to read this book again, but I 446 00:31:22.130 --> 00:31:25.030 think anybody who's interested in sort of knowing the latest cutting, most 447 00:31:25.030 --> 00:31:28.610 cutting edge, paradigm shifting approach to business would really enjoy 448 00:31:28.610 --> 00:31:33.210 this book. Absolutely well said. All right, we'll oust up. We've got the six 449 00:31:33.210 --> 00:31:36.950 disciplines of marketing proven practices for more effective marketing 450 00:31:36.950 --> 00:31:41.420 and better business by Jim, you'll and we have explored a number of books 451 00:31:41.420 --> 00:31:46.010 actually applying the agile methodology to sales and marketing. And this book 452 00:31:46.010 --> 00:31:48.780 is essentially a handbook. So tell us a little bit about your interview with 453 00:31:48.790 --> 00:31:53.530 Jim. Anyone that works in marketing, who is not using an agile approach, 454 00:31:53.540 --> 00:31:57.420 don't think that this isn't for you, because in the future, most marketing 455 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:00.460 departments are gonna be following a more agile approach if you're not 456 00:32:00.470 --> 00:32:04.420 getting okay. So it's I I joked at the end of the interview and said, You know, 457 00:32:04.420 --> 00:32:07.710 it's kind of like content marketing in the future, you're probably not gonna 458 00:32:07.710 --> 00:32:12.700 hear that. Term is much because it's just big. Yeah, baked into marketing, 459 00:32:12.710 --> 00:32:18.740 So he, uh, it's beautifully written And he explains. So, he explains, There's 460 00:32:18.740 --> 00:32:25.560 really six disciplines, as the title implies, that are in agile marketing. 461 00:32:25.570 --> 00:32:31.680 Okay, and agile marketing enables you to work smarter, work faster, be more 462 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:38.280 responsive and spoiler alert. It actually helps to bake in sales and 463 00:32:38.280 --> 00:32:44.910 marketing alignment at a company. It's like, Yeah, they kind of sneak it in. 464 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:47.620 So he talks about that In the beginning, the book and I mentioned that just a 465 00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:53.520 second, but he also goes on to manage expectations brilliantly by saying, 466 00:32:53.520 --> 00:32:59.990 Look, there's four shifts that have toe happen shifts in beliefs and behaviors 467 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:07.280 in a company in necessary for agile to even get off the ground. Okay, So don't 468 00:33:07.290 --> 00:33:11.840 don't start this unless you're gonna be able to make these six these four 469 00:33:11.840 --> 00:33:15.740 shifts in the beginning, and I'm gonna I'm gonna mention what they are. And, 470 00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:19.950 uh, the first one is a shift from a focus on outputs to one based on 471 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:24.860 outcomes. Wow. I sound like I'm repeating myself in this episode, but 472 00:33:24.860 --> 00:33:29.640 that's really important for marketers. You know, I meet so many marketing 473 00:33:29.650 --> 00:33:33.460 people and I've seen presentations like, for instance, by marketing people to 474 00:33:33.460 --> 00:33:37.710 sales teams, and they're basically talking about the outputs they're doing. 475 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.830 You know what I mean? What? We're gonna do it? One email newsletter. We're 476 00:33:40.830 --> 00:33:43.430 gonna do four block posts and we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do that 477 00:33:43.430 --> 00:33:49.300 in these main landing pages of these videos. Stop that. Tie it toe outcomes, 478 00:33:49.310 --> 00:33:53.660 start with outcomes. What are the outcomes that everyone's looking for? 479 00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:58.950 And again, if you ask, that question is a marketer to your sales team. I mean, 480 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:05.060 I would like that if I were salesperson. Amen. Amen On eso in this book as well 481 00:34:05.060 --> 00:34:08.150 as Andrea for Arrears, which is on the show recently. They both talk about how 482 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.790 sales people like this agile stuff that the marketing people are doing. The 483 00:34:12.790 --> 00:34:17.330 second one is a shift from campaign mentality, which is, I think, holdover 484 00:34:17.330 --> 00:34:21.679 from the advertising days Ah, campaign mentality to one based on continuous 485 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:25.260 improvement. And so instead of saying what we're gonna do, this big burst of 486 00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:30.739 activity No, no, no. Let's let's take it back to the outcomes we want, okay? 487 00:34:30.750 --> 00:34:34.900 And then just continue to iterate and test and just get better and better and 488 00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:40.500 better at trying to achieve these outcomes. The third one is a shift from 489 00:34:40.510 --> 00:34:47.830 an internal focus to a customer focus, which I mean, if you only do that, 490 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:52.100 you'll be successful in marketing. You'll be successful in sales. You'll 491 00:34:52.110 --> 00:34:57.110 you'll be successful. But he explains why most companies air internally 492 00:34:57.110 --> 00:35:01.300 focused and, you know, observation, not a criticism. But he shows you that if 493 00:35:01.300 --> 00:35:03.750 you don't have the focus on your customer, you're really not going to 494 00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:08.220 get square one. And the last one is a shift and this is the hardest one for 495 00:35:08.220 --> 00:35:13.390 businesses. Ah, shift from top down to decentralize decision making. It 496 00:35:13.390 --> 00:35:16.910 doesn't really work if you can't start to do more of that and more and more 497 00:35:16.910 --> 00:35:22.060 copies. Okay, so the six disciplines are aligning the team on common goals, 498 00:35:22.540 --> 00:35:26.710 you know? So let me back up those first four things, even if you don't end up 499 00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:30.370 going toe agile, if your company can start to focus on those four things, 500 00:35:30.380 --> 00:35:35.690 you're gonna be successful. I guarantee it or your money back. But the six 501 00:35:35.690 --> 00:35:38.520 disciplines are aligning the team on common goals. And there's quite a bit 502 00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:42.580 about about doing that, structuring the team for greater efficiency, 503 00:35:42.590 --> 00:35:47.360 implementing processes like scrum and can ban and marketing which this, you 504 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.010 know, inside baseball terms. But people that work in marketing are familiar 505 00:35:50.010 --> 00:35:56.420 with those validated learning which is getting data from your marketing 506 00:35:56.420 --> 00:36:00.960 practices and measuring so that you can prove what works, what doesn't work. 507 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:04.780 And some things aren't gonna work. And that's okay. But stop with the opinions 508 00:36:04.790 --> 00:36:09.120 and the opinion of the highest paid person in the room. And the 5th and 6th 509 00:36:09.120 --> 00:36:13.490 are adapting to change, which is really hard, but he chose You know how toe how 510 00:36:13.490 --> 00:36:18.420 to think about that and then the sixth one, which is really so important. And 511 00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:21.050 yes, we're talking about agile marketing, but it's creating a 512 00:36:21.050 --> 00:36:25.340 remarkable customer experiences. So we talked about in that in Daryl Amy's 513 00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:30.690 book. But of these 61 of them is about creating a remarkable customer 514 00:36:30.690 --> 00:36:33.680 experiences. You know, it's it's one of those things where I just keep getting 515 00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:38.490 on my soapbox, saying, You know, uh to quote roughly Maya Angelou, she said. 516 00:36:38.490 --> 00:36:40.920 People will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but 517 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:45.580 they'll never forget how you made them feel. And customer experiences are why 518 00:36:45.580 --> 00:36:52.100 people are buying things now. So I'll step down and let you talk that Z 519 00:36:52.110 --> 00:36:55.800 encapsulates much of us, but it's very practical. He's explaining a lot of 520 00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:58.990 things in each of these different sections. So it's you got to get the 521 00:36:58.990 --> 00:37:04.310 whole book to get all the details about how apply agile Thio marketing. But I 522 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.190 think it's phenomenal workbook. His take away here was to know the 523 00:37:08.190 --> 00:37:11.920 differences between those two things. The disciplines are skills and the 524 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:16.210 shifts are essentially paradigm shifts right, And and he said, What you just 525 00:37:16.210 --> 00:37:19.540 said is that organizations can get a lot of success, even if you just did 526 00:37:19.540 --> 00:37:23.010 nothing more than work on the four paradigm shifts, right? Yes. And the 527 00:37:23.010 --> 00:37:26.020 thing he thought that listeners could do is just to start with Number one on 528 00:37:26.020 --> 00:37:29.410 the disciplines, which is alignment. And if your marketing go to your sales 529 00:37:29.410 --> 00:37:32.020 team and have a conversation with them and just say, Hey, what's working? 530 00:37:32.030 --> 00:37:35.410 What's really working? He said. You'd be surprised what you know. They will 531 00:37:35.410 --> 00:37:38.910 light up because they never talk. E mean, you've been in sales for your 532 00:37:38.910 --> 00:37:41.590 career. Did you have a lot of marketing people come to you and ask you that? 533 00:37:41.600 --> 00:37:45.280 Onley the new ones, like if you ever If you got if you got inserted into the 534 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:48.580 process where it was already established, they were never talking to 535 00:37:48.580 --> 00:37:51.940 each other. But if you had turnover in the marketing department, usually a 536 00:37:51.940 --> 00:37:54.820 fresh person would come in and say, All right, well, tell us what you know. So 537 00:37:54.830 --> 00:37:57.850 it's something about starting new that causes them just to think All right, 538 00:37:57.850 --> 00:38:00.510 well, let's go see what's actually working so we can double down on that 539 00:38:00.520 --> 00:38:03.520 because they may have come from a different industry. But I would say, 540 00:38:03.530 --> 00:38:10.300 Yeah, well, it's the exception, though, right? S o E. It's definitely 80 20 on 541 00:38:10.300 --> 00:38:13.990 that. Most people are just They think that their genius, right? And I don't 542 00:38:13.990 --> 00:38:18.190 know if that's the case, but ah, big peppy for of most salespeople is that 543 00:38:18.190 --> 00:38:21.400 the marketing people actually don't understand. Not only do they not only 544 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:23.640 understand sales, they don't actually understand what the customers were 545 00:38:23.640 --> 00:38:27.400 really doing, and so that ends up creating all kinds of copy that is very, 546 00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:31.810 very bland, right, with a lot of superlatives in it. And that is just 547 00:38:31.820 --> 00:38:36.290 like customers hate reading it too, because it means nothing, right? Yeah, 548 00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:40.350 it's robust this and, you know, world class that and you're like, What does 549 00:38:40.350 --> 00:38:44.230 that even mean? Well, yeah, Let me add to that with some research. There was a 550 00:38:44.230 --> 00:38:51.500 serious decision study ah, couple years ago, and they determined that 60 to 70% 551 00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:56.250 of the content that marketing is creating is never being used at all. 552 00:38:56.620 --> 00:39:04.260 And the reason why is because of a lack of customer insights. Yeah, well, I 553 00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:07.920 think the problem I can give you the flip of that. 30 to 40% of sales person 554 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.580 time is recreating marketing materials, which to drive marketing people, 555 00:39:11.580 --> 00:39:14.950 bananas. So if you would just get talking to each other, you wouldn't. 556 00:39:14.950 --> 00:39:17.870 Sales people would have to waste so much time recreating their power points 557 00:39:17.870 --> 00:39:22.790 because, you know, we'd all be on the same page. Yeah, Yeah, it's so thes. 558 00:39:22.790 --> 00:39:27.740 Concepts were telling. Here are easy to say, but they are really hard for 559 00:39:27.740 --> 00:39:30.860 companies to do. And if you're experiencing some of those frustrations, 560 00:39:30.870 --> 00:39:37.940 you're not alone. Turning into a support group 12 steps, step one by 561 00:39:37.940 --> 00:39:42.340 agile marketing. Yeah. No, this is I really enjoyed this book, and I really 562 00:39:42.350 --> 00:39:46.600 it seems like the wisdom of agile that methodology is just working its way 563 00:39:46.600 --> 00:39:49.940 into literally every industry in every discipline. I mean, it works. I've seen 564 00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:53.810 it up close and personal, and I think it inevitably will be the norm across 565 00:39:53.810 --> 00:39:57.780 all industries. Marketing and sales included. And so I think this is a 566 00:39:57.780 --> 00:40:00.610 phenomenal approach, and this is an excellent handbook on how to apply it 567 00:40:00.620 --> 00:40:06.050 to marketing. All right, well, that is it. Uh, this most books were all 568 00:40:06.050 --> 00:40:09.230 phenomenal as usual. I loved all four of them. So tell us what new books 569 00:40:09.230 --> 00:40:12.940 we've got coming up on the marketing book Podcast. We've got Form or the 570 00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:17.190 visual Sale. How to use video to Explode. Sales Drive Marketing and Grow 571 00:40:17.190 --> 00:40:21.990 Your Business in a Virtual World by Marcus Sheridan and Tyler Lassard. The 572 00:40:21.990 --> 00:40:26.690 expansion Sale for Must Win Conversations to Keep and Grow Your 573 00:40:26.690 --> 00:40:32.690 Customers, by Eric Peterson and Tim Raced ER Unfiltered Marketing. Five. 574 00:40:32.690 --> 00:40:36.700 Rules to Win Back Trust, Credibility and Customers in a Digitally Distracted 575 00:40:36.700 --> 00:40:42.490 World by Stephen Denny and Paul Line. Burger and the Influencer Code. How to 576 00:40:42.500 --> 00:40:48.170 Unlock the Power of Influencer Marketing by Amanda Russell And That's 577 00:40:48.170 --> 00:40:50.990 it for this month's B two b growth show book. Talk to learn more about the 578 00:40:50.990 --> 00:40:54.720 marketing book podcast, visit marketing book podcast dot com and to learn more 579 00:40:54.720 --> 00:41:00.090 about James and his excellent book, The Perfect Close Visit pure mirror dot com. 580 00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:07.470 That's spelled P u r e m u i r dot com. And as I mentioned earlier, if either 581 00:41:07.470 --> 00:41:10.860 of us could recommend a specific sales or marketing book or other resource for 582 00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:14.680 whatever situation you find yourself in, connect with us unlinked in please 583 00:41:14.680 --> 00:41:19.930 include a message where we can chat and we'll do. I'm getting a lot of these 584 00:41:19.940 --> 00:41:24.260 messages from people on linked in, and they're just I think there it's it's a 585 00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:28.070 machine that's sending me all these things So I've kind of had to trail off. 586 00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:33.620 Unless I think it's a living supplies we can detect robots. Yes, yes, connect 587 00:41:33.620 --> 00:41:36.830 with us on LinkedIn because it really is nice to be able to chat there and 588 00:41:36.830 --> 00:41:39.890 answer questions and doesn't take much time. It's kind of the most fun thing 589 00:41:39.890 --> 00:41:43.050 we get to Dio on. We'll do our best to get you point in the right direction, 590 00:41:43.050 --> 00:41:46.720 maybe save you some time, give a little inspiration. And remember what the late 591 00:41:46.730 --> 00:41:52.540 Jim Rohn said. Formal education will make you a living. Self education will 592 00:41:52.540 --> 00:41:54.150 make you a fortune. 593 00:41:58.410 --> 00:42:02.070 One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of 594 00:42:02.070 --> 00:42:06.510 mouth works. It works really, really well, actually. So if you love this 595 00:42:06.510 --> 00:42:10.660 show, it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And if 596 00:42:10.660 --> 00:42:14.980 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend meta. 597 00:42:14.990 --> 00:42:18.640 I know. I'll send you a copy of my book. Content based networking. How to 598 00:42:18.650 --> 00:42:22.080 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell phone number is 599 00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:28.230 4074903328 Happy texting.