Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740
Yeah.
2
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:08.900
Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm
Leslie Cruise with Sweet Fish Media.
3
00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:13.520
Today we will be continuing our deep
dive into demand generation. And I'm so
4
00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:17.840
excited to be joined today by Eugene
Zaremba, Director of Demand Generation
5
00:00:17.840 --> 00:00:22.750
of Panda Doc and Travis Tyler, content
specialist at Panda Doc and co host of
6
00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:27.250
the customer engagement lab. Um, Eugene,
I learned so much in our pre call alone
7
00:00:27.250 --> 00:00:31.390
from you. So I'm so excited to have you
on the podcast too. Just share your
8
00:00:31.390 --> 00:00:34.900
knowledge with our audience. I think
they're going to gain so much from you.
9
00:00:34.900 --> 00:00:38.960
So, Eugene Travis, thank you so much
for joining me. Thank you, Leslie.
10
00:00:38.970 --> 00:00:44.360
Absolutely. I would just like to say I
am here to be Eugene's hype man. He is
11
00:00:44.360 --> 00:00:49.240
the demand gen expert. But I'm excited
to be here and talk about how our
12
00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:53.830
content team of paradox works well with
Eugene and what he's doing every day
13
00:00:53.840 --> 00:01:01.090
from my side, I'll try to share as much
as I can during this time and sorry for
14
00:01:01.090 --> 00:01:05.160
my English. I'm not a native speaker,
but I hope it works. Your English is
15
00:01:05.160 --> 00:01:10.350
great. You're good. So Eugene, you said
that you've been working on demand. Gen
16
00:01:10.350 --> 00:01:14.340
Strategies for Panda Doc, for I think
you said five years. Is that right?
17
00:01:14.350 --> 00:01:20.120
Yeah. In July, it will be my sierra.
Wow, that's awesome. So for anyone
18
00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:23.830
listening, who might be curious? Can
you just start off by sharing a little
19
00:01:23.830 --> 00:01:29.530
bit about the overall organizational
structure of your team and kind of how
20
00:01:29.530 --> 00:01:33.670
demand gen fits into that overall
revenue team at Panda? Doc and Travis
21
00:01:33.670 --> 00:01:39.580
feel free to jump in here as well. Yeah,
so I can share overall our demand
22
00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:43.940
generation team works and overall
market and teams structure. Uh, right
23
00:01:43.940 --> 00:01:52.280
now, our demand generation team is five
people for working in the dark. And we
24
00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:58.800
have an army of freelancers who are
helping us with different tasks. So
25
00:01:58.810 --> 00:02:04.830
Internal team is mostly focusing on
inbound right now. Traffic. We have a
26
00:02:04.830 --> 00:02:09.650
seo specialists who are promoting us in
Google. We have paid specialists who
27
00:02:09.650 --> 00:02:15.420
are promoting us in BBC who are making
us PTC and promoting us on Facebook.
28
00:02:15.420 --> 00:02:21.260
LinkedIn and we have that analytics
manager who help us to measure
29
00:02:21.260 --> 00:02:25.910
everything, drive conversions, make a B
test and so on. And as I mentioned, we
30
00:02:25.910 --> 00:02:31.290
have an American writers who are
helping us with different tasks. Link
31
00:02:31.290 --> 00:02:36.690
building, outreach, content,
preparation, affiliate stuff, some
32
00:02:36.690 --> 00:02:42.600
project management stuff. So it's our
current structure and we are growing. I
33
00:02:42.600 --> 00:02:50.050
think by the end of the year, we plan
to hire up to 67 people to turn our
34
00:02:50.060 --> 00:02:54.800
demand. Generation efforts were not
only focused on inbound as it's
35
00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:00.330
happening right now, but also why
they're our responsibility. So to start
36
00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:05.720
growing brand awareness more focused on
sales enablement and overall on sales
37
00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:10.000
corporation. And I think by the end of
the year we have learned to start
38
00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.850
focusing on our customers. We do it
right now, but not quite active. So in
39
00:03:15.850 --> 00:03:23.950
some plants we have start shot creating
content showing ads, uh, customers to,
40
00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:30.110
like work on retention on different
customer features and so on. Uh, it's
41
00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:38.150
our team and overall marketing team is
also growing. Uh, we have different
42
00:03:38.150 --> 00:03:43.390
departments with whom we work Quite
close. Uh, we have engagement team
43
00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:48.940
where Travis is also working. Guys, we
have a lot of for projects. One of them,
44
00:03:48.940 --> 00:03:54.470
for example, you took right now, we are
preparing a different kind of videos
45
00:03:54.470 --> 00:04:01.380
for YouTube to show them in Ed's
payrolls, posters and so on. We have
46
00:04:01.380 --> 00:04:08.690
brand team. They're responsible for our
website and content. And we have a lot
47
00:04:08.690 --> 00:04:15.080
of new teams who were like established,
maybe during the last six months, 12
48
00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:20.430
months. They are working on partners to
help grow it. We're building a T M
49
00:04:20.430 --> 00:04:25.890
department. We started building PR. We
build them, going to market strategy.
50
00:04:25.900 --> 00:04:31.140
So these initiatives are quite new. So
we'll see. Hope every single government
51
00:04:31.150 --> 00:04:36.210
they think. Travis free to correct me?
No, that that pretty much That pretty
52
00:04:36.210 --> 00:04:40.310
much sums it up. You know, paradox is
definitely a company that's in kind of
53
00:04:40.310 --> 00:04:43.680
a growth mode. We're no longer
considering ourselves really a startup.
54
00:04:43.690 --> 00:04:47.500
By the end of the year, we're planning
to have it around 600 employees. We
55
00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:52.980
just hit the 500 mark. So we're our
North star right now, is, you know, 100
56
00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:59.140
r r. And it's an exciting organization
to be a part of. And a big driver of
57
00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:05.530
that growth really stems from Eugene,
uh, and all the work that goes into our
58
00:05:05.530 --> 00:05:10.320
demand generation efforts here. Panda.
Doc. So, yeah, Eugene is lucky enough
59
00:05:10.320 --> 00:05:14.730
to be a part of a funnel meeting every
week where his feet get held to the
60
00:05:14.730 --> 00:05:20.720
fire and all of our revenue leaders are
like Eugene, where are all these leads?
61
00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:24.630
Are we hitting our goals? Are we
hitting our marks? And so we can
62
00:05:24.630 --> 00:05:28.290
definitely dive into that a little bit
later. But I don't envy Eugene. I get
63
00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:33.330
to do the fun stuff and, uh, you know,
he really makes the metric happen. Yeah,
64
00:05:33.340 --> 00:05:37.950
it's really cool to see how Panda Doc
does demand generation. I think I've
65
00:05:37.950 --> 00:05:42.570
talked to a lot of people who are in
smaller organizations and then startup
66
00:05:42.570 --> 00:05:45.810
organizations so they don't have that
extensive revenue team, and they don't
67
00:05:45.810 --> 00:05:51.480
have that connection. All they really
have is, you know, one person doing
68
00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:54.110
kind of marketing one person doing
sales, and they're kind of trying to
69
00:05:54.110 --> 00:05:56.860
mix together, and it's like, Well,
there's demanded in there somewhere.
70
00:05:56.870 --> 00:05:59.660
But it's really cool to see how panda
Doc has grown so much. And you guys
71
00:05:59.660 --> 00:06:05.940
actually have a team for this specific
area. So, yeah, I mean, we talked
72
00:06:05.950 --> 00:06:11.420
previously about how the pandemic alone
affected the old ways of demand. Gen.
73
00:06:11.420 --> 00:06:17.140
So can you just share some of the ways
that some of the most important lessons
74
00:06:17.150 --> 00:06:21.060
in demand gen that you and your team
learned in the past two years alone.
75
00:06:21.440 --> 00:06:29.140
Yeah, sure, I'll try. So, uh, as you
mentioned the world pandemic, a lot of
76
00:06:29.150 --> 00:06:34.250
actions started beginning in demand
generation since the beginning of the
77
00:06:34.250 --> 00:06:40.680
pandemic, I can bring some examples.
Overall, Underdog demand generation
78
00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:47.690
strategy. Its core part foundation was
built on organic search. Seo, it was
79
00:06:47.690 --> 00:06:53.020
our first channel. Uh, it's how we've
grown from zero to around half a
80
00:06:53.030 --> 00:06:59.510
million visitors per month. Uh, this
organic search with Seo and, uh, one of
81
00:06:59.520 --> 00:07:06.350
part One of the parts of our strategy
was to power as much as possible. So
82
00:07:06.350 --> 00:07:13.230
right now, each month, we are searched
by around 200 K keepers per month. And
83
00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:20.180
since the pandemic started, a lot of
attempts started to change. I remember
84
00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:25.870
what it was. March, April. We see
growth in some segments in some intent.
85
00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:30.200
Quite impressive. Quite huge. A good
example can be electronic signature
86
00:07:30.200 --> 00:07:36.750
cluster 13, 2nd part of march.
Electronic signature keywords have
87
00:07:36.760 --> 00:07:42.040
thousands of them, uh, started growing
up significantly, some of them growing
88
00:07:42.050 --> 00:07:47.770
five times per month. Some uh, six or
even 10 times per month. And in some
89
00:07:47.770 --> 00:07:54.340
countries, uh, intent was, like, really
impressive. Especially comparing, for
90
00:07:54.340 --> 00:08:00.070
example, February to April and, uh,
like electronic signature has grown up
91
00:08:00.070 --> 00:08:06.140
significantly. And this trend continues
growing. It was flat for some months in
92
00:08:06.150 --> 00:08:10.320
autumn, in the beginning of winter,
February March. We also see some, like
93
00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:15.570
positive movement right now, and vice
versa. Some intent was decreased. It
94
00:08:15.570 --> 00:08:22.640
went down in a one inch. I can provide
an example of, uh, cluster quarrels. We
95
00:08:22.640 --> 00:08:27.910
have some keywords. Uh, not some. A lot
of keywords without quotes, like world
96
00:08:27.910 --> 00:08:33.980
software, quote templates, and so on.
In April, this intent decreased around
97
00:08:33.980 --> 00:08:40.659
three times. Overall, it was restored
in summer, but, uh, for us, for the one
98
00:08:40.659 --> 00:08:45.540
generation it was there were a lot of
changes in an attempt. Some are
99
00:08:45.550 --> 00:08:50.120
significantly up to 10 times some down
around three times and, you know,
100
00:08:50.130 --> 00:08:55.050
different time Mint of intent is
searched by different types of people.
101
00:08:55.060 --> 00:08:59.660
So if we speak about proposals,
proposals are mostly surged by sales
102
00:08:59.660 --> 00:09:04.700
people, mostly a relative anyway. Job
titles across assertion, but sales,
103
00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:10.420
primary and electronic signatures. It's
a very white topic. Search almost by
104
00:09:10.430 --> 00:09:16.560
everybody in the world, and we
immediately saw that our that leads
105
00:09:16.570 --> 00:09:22.710
with different job titles also changed
a lot. We had immediately much more, uh,
106
00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:27.340
some new job roles, like revenue
specialists and so on. And we have
107
00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:32.300
degrees in some sales holes. For
example, sales managers starting
108
00:09:32.300 --> 00:09:37.300
pandemic. We have decreasing them and
eat all influence. Our sales channel we
109
00:09:37.300 --> 00:09:42.480
need. We need to restructure how we
work with some type of leads, which
110
00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:47.560
guarantees we work, how and when we
send emails and make calls, and so on.
111
00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:52.890
So during the start of the pandemic,
there were a lot of changes of intent.
112
00:09:52.890 --> 00:09:58.960
And it's one of the things I want to
mention that like we had it and as our
113
00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:04.740
strategy as I mentioned, we build a
strong foundation on targeting hundreds,
114
00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:10.950
thousands of keywords. We have a huge
change of contempt, and we needed to
115
00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:16.310
change a lot of processes and
organization around it. It's learning
116
00:10:16.310 --> 00:10:19.850
when I can provide and as a learning.
For example, what we saw during
117
00:10:19.850 --> 00:10:27.000
Pandemic was that one where people went
working from home and we had some
118
00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:33.860
systems, uh, systems we use for
personalization systems. We used for
119
00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:41.780
targeting people that were built by
based targeting or based Overall, I
120
00:10:41.790 --> 00:10:48.280
based strategy and, uh, accuracy of I p
based method targeting and
121
00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:52.540
personalization. It's decreased
immediately. So I remember a second
122
00:10:52.540 --> 00:10:58.730
part of March and April. We had some,
uh, in the curious e as in EBS, we try
123
00:10:58.730 --> 00:11:06.300
to deliver, as in some overall, what we
get on, sign up what we get on website.
124
00:11:06.310 --> 00:11:12.710
We saw it and we we tried to also to
change some processes. So we stopped
125
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:18.270
using I'd waste targeting for some
strategies something to start to
126
00:11:18.270 --> 00:11:23.580
mentally some change. So we have tried
to use cookie based targeting in some
127
00:11:23.590 --> 00:11:28.680
networks we tried to use grow across
device targeting. I cannot say it
128
00:11:28.690 --> 00:11:35.180
worked ideally, but anyway, we saw
changes around it that work from for
129
00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:40.790
what we have from for like, approach
changed a lot for us. And, uh, we
130
00:11:40.790 --> 00:11:46.630
changed our sign up after it. We
changed how we buy some else on some
131
00:11:46.630 --> 00:11:52.950
channels. So also an example can
provide starting pandemic. Facebook and
132
00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:59.050
LinkedIn started working for us. Better
it, we saw a decrease in some channels
133
00:11:59.050 --> 00:12:03.900
which use a GPS targeting but for
example, Facebook on them. Performance
134
00:12:03.900 --> 00:12:09.550
possibility to receive overall became
much better. And we had some momentum
135
00:12:09.550 --> 00:12:15.000
success and, uh, starting pandemic
started trying to leverage in these
136
00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:19.910
channels, and it still continues. So
without pandemic, I think we want to
137
00:12:19.910 --> 00:12:24.570
start so active users of Facebook and
blending. I just want to jump in here
138
00:12:24.570 --> 00:12:28.610
real quick. So to take it back to
something you said pretty early on,
139
00:12:28.610 --> 00:12:34.700
Eugene, we're at half a million website
visitors per month now. No. Right now
140
00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:41.720
we have more than a million 200 K,
maybe per month right now, but 500 k
141
00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:45.720
per month. We reached only without
being searched. Right now, we added
142
00:12:45.730 --> 00:12:50.710
much more channels like we have, uh,
see paid Social affiliate network and
143
00:12:50.710 --> 00:12:55.420
so on. But our foundation. When we hit
first half of million users visitors
144
00:12:55.420 --> 00:12:59.310
per month, it was on there getting
search. Wow. So I mean, for people
145
00:12:59.310 --> 00:13:03.810
listening, that's those are like B two
c numbers. I mean, that's pretty crazy
146
00:13:03.810 --> 00:13:06.400
to think about how many people are
coming to the Paradox website, and I
147
00:13:06.400 --> 00:13:10.290
think it might be of interest to our
listeners as well to find out like how
148
00:13:10.290 --> 00:13:13.320
the heck did we do that? Like, how did
we get there? How did we get to that
149
00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:17.520
point? Um, you've been here for five
years. I've been here for two years and
150
00:13:17.520 --> 00:13:21.980
I've never worked in an organization
that has so much inbound traffic. And I
151
00:13:21.980 --> 00:13:26.480
just want to like, I guess have you
shared with the audience a little bit
152
00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:31.650
more about the overarching strategy? I
know we talked about it in our pre call.
153
00:13:32.040 --> 00:13:37.980
You know, the Eastern European push for
S e o the Belarusian machines of having
154
00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:43.340
some really talented folks on your end
really harness, You know, in the 2000
155
00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:49.680
and 10 on this strategy and this
approach of just owning organic search.
156
00:13:49.690 --> 00:13:53.950
And is that how we got to this point? I
mean, what what would you say to folks
157
00:13:53.950 --> 00:13:58.590
who are like, I want a million visitors
to my website? Yeah, I'll try to
158
00:13:58.590 --> 00:14:04.930
provide as several strategies to give
some details. So overall, our strategy
159
00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:12.420
is to create content that will meet
users inquiry and provide the best,
160
00:14:12.430 --> 00:14:17.390
like answer to the Squire. So we'll try
to create, really hear a content as it
161
00:14:17.390 --> 00:14:24.950
called on user search and user inquiry
and uh, when we I can give you an
162
00:14:24.950 --> 00:14:31.060
example, like when we find a key words
we want to be in the top of, uh, search
163
00:14:31.060 --> 00:14:36.880
engines Google, Bing, Yahoo and so on.
So we analyze what is on top, and we
164
00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:41.560
understand whether we can create
something better than the first place.
165
00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:47.340
So it can be if we speak about
questions. Somebody is looking for a
166
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:53.800
question like Is Amateur is my
signature legal in Canada or electronic
167
00:14:53.800 --> 00:14:58.130
signatures legal in Canada. It's an
example of such inquiry, and we try to
168
00:14:58.130 --> 00:15:03.290
understand what is on the first
position, usually on questions that can
169
00:15:03.300 --> 00:15:08.180
be, for example, who are already in an
answer to this Querrey. And we try to
170
00:15:08.180 --> 00:15:13.530
understand whether we can write
something that will be more useful for
171
00:15:13.530 --> 00:15:19.800
a user if we can. We do it. If not, so
we just give this inquiry. So I just
172
00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:23.840
typed in an example just now, just to
see if what you're talking about rings
173
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:28.080
true. So like a question. You're
calling it a query, but a question
174
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.300
somebody might right into Google how to
write a business proposal. We are the
175
00:15:32.300 --> 00:15:38.850
absolute number one spot for a blog
article we wrote in January 2020 10
176
00:15:38.850 --> 00:15:42.710
steps how to write a business proposal
were even above hubspot, the king of
177
00:15:42.710 --> 00:15:49.180
content. Yeah, so when you say Eugene
that we we think of a query, we think
178
00:15:49.180 --> 00:15:53.970
of us a question that somebody is going
to ask. And then we analyze the number
179
00:15:53.970 --> 00:15:57.910
one number two, Number three spot when
you're analyzing it, what is your team
180
00:15:57.910 --> 00:16:01.500
looking at? Because what's confusing is
like everyone's like, Well, Travis,
181
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:04.870
shouldn't you know that you're on the
content team? I am creating multimedia
182
00:16:04.870 --> 00:16:09.700
content. I am not creating blog content
here at Panda Doc. So when you all are
183
00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:14.170
analyzing to make something better,
then what's existing? What goes into
184
00:16:14.170 --> 00:16:21.230
that? Yeah, So I'll try to explain
first each question each qua ary their
185
00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:28.070
union. So on some questions, it's
better, for example, to create video
186
00:16:28.070 --> 00:16:32.850
for you, too. We have different
questions, even in our news. Were
187
00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:37.810
answers should be like video. And if we
want to be in top of the Google is
188
00:16:37.810 --> 00:16:44.240
about to create video in some questions,
it should be like forum answer or my
189
00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:50.330
big war answered. So each choir each
question is unique So first we need to
190
00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:57.350
define what type of content we should
develop to like beings at all. It's not
191
00:16:57.350 --> 00:17:01.490
always block post It can be. Videos
have mentioned. It can be even a book
192
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:07.530
can be made. The sounds sometimes pdf
document if, uh, persons are looking
193
00:17:07.530 --> 00:17:13.270
for something to really made later. So
first we define what type of quantum
194
00:17:13.270 --> 00:17:17.619
should be in the top of Google can be
in the top of Google. Then there are a
195
00:17:17.619 --> 00:17:22.150
lot of things were analyzed to
understand what needs to be done to
196
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:27.990
reached up. A good example can be
quantum to length if I wanted. For
197
00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:33.330
example, if you imagine I do not work
in Honda Dog and I want to create an
198
00:17:33.340 --> 00:17:38.440
article to be in the top of Google by
an example, you've provided how to
199
00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.490
write business proposal. The thing I
will do, I will try to create content
200
00:17:42.490 --> 00:17:47.230
to longer than panda Doc. Maybe
calculate how much words on the dock.
201
00:17:47.230 --> 00:17:53.810
Article Health Imagine like 3000 words,
2000 words and I will add, like, 10 15%
202
00:17:53.810 --> 00:17:59.630
to make it longer. So we are now
Iceland's, then we have, like our
203
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:06.450
internal metrics we call it readability.
How easy is to read this article? You
204
00:18:06.450 --> 00:18:12.690
know, right now, some articles is, uh,
article should be easy to read. You
205
00:18:12.690 --> 00:18:17.420
should have. For example, videos.
Institutions have infographics in it,
206
00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:22.390
and you should structure article in a
way. So for everybody to be easy to
207
00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:30.610
live, breathe like big, big words, big
letters. And you shouldn't have very
208
00:18:30.620 --> 00:18:35.540
long paragraphs like, uh, you should
have, like, paragraphs. Three sentences
209
00:18:35.540 --> 00:18:42.140
than video of them heading. Then, for
example, quote, uh, so you analyze
210
00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:46.360
whether you can write something that
will be easier to read than number one
211
00:18:46.360 --> 00:18:52.170
position. If you can write something
longer, something easier to read and,
212
00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:57.600
uh, at something unique, uh, maybe
unique quartz, maybe some unique
213
00:18:57.610 --> 00:19:03.580
reports. Maybe you can find out how to
add some unique data so we'll do it.
214
00:19:03.590 --> 00:19:09.600
We're right. We try to make it better
and usually google, uh, give us a favor
215
00:19:09.600 --> 00:19:15.490
and start drinking us quite high. But
get some shots Nice. What's the tool
216
00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:20.250
that we use when we're writing content,
trying to remember what it's called? So
217
00:19:20.260 --> 00:19:28.040
right now we use for analyzing Google,
we use clear scope. Yeah. It's a tool
218
00:19:28.050 --> 00:19:34.260
that helps to analyze top of the Google
and provide some insights what you
219
00:19:34.260 --> 00:19:39.440
should write. Uh, there are a lot of
different such tools on the market
220
00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:45.010
right now. You're very clear scope, but
it don't only give some insights. Uh,
221
00:19:45.020 --> 00:19:50.380
amazing insights. Without it, it will
be pretty hard. But when you're check,
222
00:19:50.380 --> 00:19:54.670
also very important, so without manual
check, you should Anyway, man or the
223
00:19:54.670 --> 00:20:01.780
check top one second absorbed results
in Google to see, and it's really hard
224
00:20:01.780 --> 00:20:07.670
to explain. But, uh, usually you feel
whether you can write something better
225
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:14.430
than something in top or not. If we
feel we can we do it? If not, we just
226
00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:18.850
keep the stop it. And, uh, right now,
content is becoming better and better
227
00:20:18.860 --> 00:20:24.980
from even once a month. I think it's a
future when, uh, you should include as
228
00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:29.500
a teams to write quantum to help your
quantum. I think we all start with We
229
00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:33.500
also started doing right now, for
example, when we right here a content
230
00:20:33.510 --> 00:20:39.080
almost, uh, in each article way include
somebody from that, Another texting
231
00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:43.540
right now, uh, we got on that analytic
statement as guys were right on this
232
00:20:43.540 --> 00:20:48.020
topic police provides us some insights
like give us some insights because we
233
00:20:48.020 --> 00:20:53.060
have a lot of data in the underdog. And
when we write something about proposals,
234
00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:59.160
we can share some unique data that will
be unique for a market. And right now
235
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:04.020
that analytics teams get some insights,
for example, or, uh, you're writing
236
00:21:04.020 --> 00:21:08.990
about proposals right now with the
trends that, uh, it's better to use
237
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:15.100
tables with three calls when you write
a proposal or it's better to add
238
00:21:15.100 --> 00:21:19.160
signature in the bottom of document or
signature block should be very wide.
239
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:25.650
And I think it's a future also organic
sort of content that if you want to
240
00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:29.060
rent in the top of Google, you should
bring something unique for the market
241
00:21:29.060 --> 00:21:34.350
for an issue, and we are trying to do
it as a marketer. You're probably
242
00:21:34.350 --> 00:21:38.320
brainstorming outside the box ideas to
engage your prospects and customers
243
00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:41.960
working remotely, and you've probably
thought about sending them direct mail
244
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:46.100
to break through the zoom fatigue. But
how do you ship personalized gifts to
245
00:21:46.100 --> 00:21:50.510
remote decision makers when you have no
idea where they're sitting at B B
246
00:21:50.510 --> 00:21:54.150
growth, we use the craft and platform
to send hyper personalized gifts to
247
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:58.180
anyone working from anywhere. Crafting
makes it easy for your prospects and
248
00:21:58.180 --> 00:22:02.700
customers to pick and personalize their
own gift in real time and offers highly
249
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:06.630
secure data capture. So decision makers
feel comfortable submitting their home
250
00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:10.860
addresses for shipping purposes. To get
your own personalized craft and gift,
251
00:22:10.940 --> 00:22:15.500
go to craft, um dot io slash growth to
schedule a demo and receive a
252
00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:19.260
complimentary, personalized gift from
craft. Um, to claim your personalized
253
00:22:19.260 --> 00:22:25.600
gift, go to craft, um dot io slash
growth. Great. So switching gears just
254
00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:30.850
a little bit here. B two b marketing
has evolved so much in just the past
255
00:22:30.850 --> 00:22:34.680
few years, and it's continuing to,
which makes it a lot more fun and
256
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:39.010
enjoyable and just kind of diving into
the four stages of B two b marketing.
257
00:22:39.010 --> 00:22:44.910
We've kind of gone from Decision Maker
marketing, A B M events, paid marketing.
258
00:22:44.910 --> 00:22:49.050
Of course. In the past two years,
that's changed a lot. Bottoms up,
259
00:22:49.050 --> 00:22:55.470
content inbound. S E o paid product led
growth more s E o more paid content.
260
00:22:55.480 --> 00:23:00.120
And now we're kind of leaning into
media and community led. And I think
261
00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:04.690
that this is really where we're headed
and B to B companies are kind of
262
00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:09.290
becoming a destination for their
audience through podcasting, YouTube
263
00:23:09.290 --> 00:23:14.030
clubhouse. They're becoming the go to
for whatever their field might be. And
264
00:23:14.030 --> 00:23:17.650
I think that's really, really great.
And can you just talk about your
265
00:23:17.650 --> 00:23:22.080
experience with this and your own
growth through these stages in demand?
266
00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:25.650
Jin at Panda Doc over the last few
years that you've been working there,
267
00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:30.770
so I'll jump in real quick and just, I
think, to help set the stage. So,
268
00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:35.930
Eugene, I think about a year ago
basically came to the whole marketing
269
00:23:35.930 --> 00:23:39.560
team and was like Guys, we found
something pretty interesting here,
270
00:23:39.570 --> 00:23:46.890
which is of all of our social channels.
YouTube is responsible for the largest
271
00:23:46.890 --> 00:23:52.800
generation of traffic and of converting
traffic. And so we were like, Well,
272
00:23:52.800 --> 00:23:56.760
what are we even putting on our YouTube
page? And it wasn't a whole lot at the
273
00:23:56.760 --> 00:24:01.690
time. And so Eugene came to me because
I was the only one at the time kind of
274
00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:06.360
doing any videos or multimedia content
at Panda Doc, and since then we've come
275
00:24:06.360 --> 00:24:09.820
up with a number of different ads to
test. We've grown our audience
276
00:24:09.820 --> 00:24:16.180
significantly on LinkedIn and on
YouTube and where turning into almost
277
00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:21.410
like a media arm of Panda Doc to
support Eugene and what he's seeing in
278
00:24:21.410 --> 00:24:28.960
the trends where video is is becoming a
huge focus for us. And I meet with
279
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:33.800
Eugene and he's a busy man to meet with.
But I try to meet with him or people on
280
00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:39.590
his team every few weeks to come up
with ideas for new videos and to
281
00:24:39.590 --> 00:24:44.690
organize our YouTube page a little bit
better and come up with ideas for
282
00:24:44.690 --> 00:24:49.230
what's going to drive traffic and
what's going to convert users to go
283
00:24:49.230 --> 00:24:53.740
from YouTube to the panel dock website,
request a demo, start a free trial and
284
00:24:53.740 --> 00:24:56.950
become paying customers. So I just
wanted to set that stage for you,
285
00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:02.360
Eugene. Thank you, Thank you, Chris. If
to speak about YouTube, Leslie will
286
00:25:02.370 --> 00:25:06.520
jump a bit ahead, and I'll return to
the question. But if to speak about
287
00:25:06.520 --> 00:25:14.700
YouTube, it's a very interesting
channel, and it's a bit complicated, uh,
288
00:25:14.710 --> 00:25:21.810
to, uh, calculate like to measure its
effort. I'll try to give an example
289
00:25:21.820 --> 00:25:28.990
when you watch a video like about
underdog in what we see. In almost all
290
00:25:28.990 --> 00:25:34.240
cases, people after watching the video.
After watching our ad, they go to
291
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:39.950
Google and type underdog what it is.
They do not click Ellen into the video.
292
00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:46.170
They go to Google to tie on the door
and then find out what it says on the
293
00:25:46.170 --> 00:25:53.360
door, what it is to and when you try to
measure effect like of YouTube ads,
294
00:25:53.370 --> 00:25:59.200
it's not only what you see, like when
people click on Link and you measure
295
00:25:59.210 --> 00:26:04.490
what Travis said who requested them and
start the trial. It's also a big part
296
00:26:04.490 --> 00:26:08.910
of branch of our business that people
started searching much more about
297
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:17.340
underdog in the area where we show. So
we even did a test when we show our
298
00:26:17.350 --> 00:26:24.650
brand only in once them stayed in USA,
so we didn't show our heads in the hole.
299
00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:31.900
In my country, we chose one state where
claustrophobia was pretty small and we
300
00:26:31.910 --> 00:26:38.400
showed our heads 200 t like visitors,
people, unique people and what we
301
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:43.890
calculated that more than a half didn't
click. They don't click on links in our
302
00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:49.740
video. They go to Google or and try to
find out what is on the dog and when we
303
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:55.180
show ourselves we see a big uplift of
grand traffic and direct right, not by
304
00:26:55.180 --> 00:27:01.660
click links. So it's pretty complicated
channel to measure and overall to
305
00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:05.590
understand its performance. But it's
working, and it's one of the challenges
306
00:27:05.590 --> 00:27:10.730
we're working right now that we are
having to build a model, how to measure
307
00:27:10.730 --> 00:27:16.010
some channel, some complicated channels
like you told some video channels PR
308
00:27:16.010 --> 00:27:21.510
and so on. Okay, lets and going back to
your question. I can maybe share
309
00:27:21.520 --> 00:27:26.150
overall our demand generation story, in
short, how we came to current numbers.
310
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.970
So as I mentioned in the beginning of
the call we've started with organic
311
00:27:30.970 --> 00:27:37.330
search, this is your It was for a long
time, almost only one hour channel, and
312
00:27:37.340 --> 00:27:41.450
it's how we've grown from zero or zero
to half a million visitors per month.
313
00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:48.590
Strategy was quite simple. We developed
big amount of content, so we've created
314
00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:54.500
more than 50 pages per month, focused
on specific evils, and the strategy was
315
00:27:54.500 --> 00:28:00.970
created a lot of content, good content
that really answers user question, user
316
00:28:00.970 --> 00:28:07.810
inquiry and what user researching and
optimize it for a lot of keywords to
317
00:28:07.810 --> 00:28:14.300
ramp on as much flavor as possible.
It's how We've grown from zero to half
318
00:28:14.300 --> 00:28:20.030
a million visitors for months. Uh,
start at this point, we realized that
319
00:28:20.040 --> 00:28:27.250
for many key words, we reached top. We
were not top one not talked to, but we
320
00:28:27.250 --> 00:28:34.810
understood that it's, uh, really hard
to rent higher. We can be, for example,
321
00:28:34.810 --> 00:28:38.530
on the fifth position on the first
position. And when we analyze stock, we
322
00:28:38.530 --> 00:28:43.080
understood that it's really, really
hard to be 13 Number one, number two,
323
00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:46.430
number three Because competitors are
really better. They wanted us better,
324
00:28:46.430 --> 00:28:51.640
or they have better links or they do
something better. And at this point, we
325
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:58.900
started leveraging new channels. We've
started doing PPC social. We started
326
00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:04.700
tests with affiliate programs. We've
opened reviewed review websites, uh,
327
00:29:04.810 --> 00:29:09.470
crowd data, types of their advice. We
started as doing organic promotion on
328
00:29:09.470 --> 00:29:16.280
them as paid promotion and, uh, some
channels started working. Some had a
329
00:29:16.290 --> 00:29:22.730
lower like Aero I. But overall, right
now, where we are after all, like,
330
00:29:22.730 --> 00:29:28.290
channels were development. We have, uh,
three working channels for us. Uh, your
331
00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:35.890
organic search PPC were using a PC in
Google animals and then being and, uh,
332
00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:40.250
we have some momentum success, some
good results with review websites
333
00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:44.700
almost with each review website that
exist in our initial that proud of
334
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:47.920
terror. Archetypes of our advice
financial, some lines. So we are
335
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:53.320
working with them and the overall where
y is positive if to calculate on water
336
00:29:53.320 --> 00:30:00.360
performance and we are running tests in
multiple other channels. We are running
337
00:30:00.360 --> 00:30:04.410
tests on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn.
We use a lot of different targeting
338
00:30:04.410 --> 00:30:09.830
options there. Like if to speak about
LinkedIn, uh, Facebook we use to try to
339
00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:14.790
find out how to get positive provide
from lookalike audiences. We run a lot
340
00:30:14.790 --> 00:30:20.610
of that. We use, uh, lied again. Forums
developed by Facebook there. So I think
341
00:30:20.610 --> 00:30:25.620
right now we have a route, maybe 56
different tests around in there in each
342
00:30:25.620 --> 00:30:32.550
platform. But I cannot say that we find
out how to grow and scale this channel.
343
00:30:32.560 --> 00:30:38.230
For example, 10 times if my manager
would ask me, please scale. Uh,
344
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:42.300
Facebook. 10 times it will be a
challenge with review websites and
345
00:30:42.300 --> 00:30:47.950
Google Edwards, we can easily do it. So
with right now, one of the like
346
00:30:48.340 --> 00:30:55.440
challenges we have is to find out how
to, uh, scale some, uh, channels who
347
00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:02.040
have that have momentum win Facebook
and Gmail YouTube. We are working with
348
00:31:02.050 --> 00:31:07.270
cooperated, uh, some content marketing
tools. We have some winds, but we need
349
00:31:07.270 --> 00:31:11.210
to understand how to scale them. And
that's one of the challenges. And I
350
00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:18.180
mostly speak about inbound, but inbound.
It's only part of demand generation. So,
351
00:31:18.190 --> 00:31:22.630
uh, it's how I want a dog started. We
started with inbound and usually
352
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:29.550
inbound, and one generation was almost
the same. But in overall of the world.
353
00:31:29.550 --> 00:31:34.610
And how other companies demanded
something we are also working on is to
354
00:31:34.620 --> 00:31:41.140
expand, uh, inbound and try to focus on
other areas of the one generation. So
355
00:31:41.150 --> 00:31:46.690
we started doing it, I think, in the
end of previous year, so not only
356
00:31:46.690 --> 00:31:53.190
focusing on inbound but also working on
parental awareness and, uh, sales
357
00:31:53.190 --> 00:31:57.950
enablement. So we started doing
different activities around brand
358
00:31:57.950 --> 00:32:02.840
awareness. YouTube is a good example
where we try to show our heads to
359
00:32:02.840 --> 00:32:07.150
different people, not only to get leads,
but also to increase overall our brand
360
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:13.810
partners and help brand awareness. And
we are also started focusing on sales
361
00:32:13.810 --> 00:32:19.610
final. If, uh, two years ago, our main
goal was to drive fleets, uh, right Now,
362
00:32:19.610 --> 00:32:23.860
our main goal is to drive pipeline.
This changes started beginning two
363
00:32:23.860 --> 00:32:29.460
years ago. And, uh, right now, we do
not bring on the lives we are focusing
364
00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:36.900
on pipeline. And, uh, if, uh, the goal
for us right now is not guys bring a
365
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:43.000
small it is bringing more quality and
bring more pipelines. And I think if
366
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:50.100
somebody would ask me what you prefer
like Mali's or Lois. But this higher
367
00:32:50.100 --> 00:32:54.920
quality, they, of course, will propose
second option, so focus on quality and
368
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.930
not involved. So it seems where we're
focusing right now and the future of
369
00:32:58.940 --> 00:33:04.810
Wanda Dog, I think we will come to eat.
Uh, it was the beginning of this year
370
00:33:04.820 --> 00:33:10.320
is to start focusing on customers, too.
So it is in plans, but to start
371
00:33:10.330 --> 00:33:16.050
development content for our current
customers. Show X for current customers
372
00:33:16.060 --> 00:33:20.910
to work on retention on some customer
metrics. We don't do it actually right
373
00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:26.360
now, but it's, uh, like strategy. We
should appear by the end of the year.
374
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:29.940
Demand generation. What's been
interesting for me to watch coming into
375
00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:34.700
the organization two years ago is the
strategy we've used on review sites,
376
00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:38.800
which could be of interest to people.
Listening to this podcast, we teamed
377
00:33:38.800 --> 00:33:41.890
from my understanding. We we we did a
good job of teaming up with other
378
00:33:41.890 --> 00:33:48.040
departments so specifically sales
customer success and sometimes baking
379
00:33:48.040 --> 00:33:53.100
in. I don't know if we baked it into
contracts officially, but often times
380
00:33:53.100 --> 00:33:56.640
we would ask customers who are really
happy with the buying process like, Hey,
381
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.940
will you write a review for us? You
know, a few months into using the
382
00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:04.660
product and we like set reminders and
then also part of the strategy was
383
00:34:04.660 --> 00:34:08.560
going in and cleaning up some of the
poor reviews, reaching out to people
384
00:34:08.560 --> 00:34:11.790
and saying like, Hey, you know, you
gave us a bad review which was
385
00:34:11.790 --> 00:34:16.239
warranted. We've since fixed that issue
that you described. Is there any way we
386
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:21.340
can incentivize you to update your
review? Now that we fixed that and
387
00:34:21.350 --> 00:34:26.650
really taking a hands on approach with
different teams, marketing was involved.
388
00:34:26.650 --> 00:34:29.860
Customer marketing and product
marketing was involved customer success
389
00:34:29.860 --> 00:34:34.949
sales, and that was just amazing to see
everybody pushing toward and like now
390
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.239
you know you're going to the major
review sites that Eugene listed Cap
391
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:43.530
Terra G to trust radius and we're
winning. Awards were being selected as
392
00:34:43.530 --> 00:34:49.719
top products, and that's just I mean,
social proof to A T and like we can
393
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:54.610
leverage that all day, all night. If
anybody comes at us and says like, Oh,
394
00:34:54.610 --> 00:34:57.920
I don't know about Panda Doc It's like,
Well, the proof is in the pudding. Go
395
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.400
check out any of those major sites and
so that was a huge push that I know
396
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:06.330
Eugene kind of mentioned, but I really
wanted to, like, mention again and harp
397
00:35:06.330 --> 00:35:11.360
on that. Travis. Thank you. Review
websites its overall, uh, quite
398
00:35:11.450 --> 00:35:17.040
interesting strategy for us because we
had overall a lot of learning during
399
00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:20.490
this year's. We're focused on the
review website, but the men learn Maybe
400
00:35:20.490 --> 00:35:24.610
what I can mention, but also Travis
mentioned, without good reviews and
401
00:35:24.610 --> 00:35:31.260
without good rate and your rye and
return on investment with will be much
402
00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:35.720
lower than with good reviews. So if you
are ready to spend money on your
403
00:35:35.720 --> 00:35:40.210
website to the list and in some
categories in parallel, you should be
404
00:35:40.210 --> 00:35:45.820
focusing on reviews to have good
reviews and put rating because we saw a
405
00:35:45.830 --> 00:35:52.000
direct correlation between hospitality
and our average rating average rating
406
00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:58.680
four and the average rating, like 4.4
to really like, plays a big role on
407
00:35:58.680 --> 00:36:04.190
conversion rate and don't prosper late
cost opportunity and or overall there,
408
00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:11.600
right? So if people want to spend money,
it's not only money. You should also
409
00:36:11.600 --> 00:36:17.500
like Dr Positive Reviews Rate and work
with your customers. If somebody leaves
410
00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:22.340
negative review trying to understand,
maybe help him asked to update it with
411
00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:27.630
higher mark, it works at all. Health
and arrive will be much fire. And then
412
00:36:27.640 --> 00:36:31.520
the other thing I wanted to mention to
just because, like, I find it to be
413
00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:37.180
like, so interesting and pertinent to
Panda Doc is at the very beginning of
414
00:36:37.180 --> 00:36:40.580
the conversation was that you asked
about our organizational structure. And
415
00:36:40.580 --> 00:36:43.290
I'm sure people listening to this are
like, Well, I want to replicate what
416
00:36:43.290 --> 00:36:47.810
paradox doing, and that's gonna be
really hard to do. So good luck,
417
00:36:47.820 --> 00:36:52.660
because it takes a long time, and it
takes a lot of people very focused
418
00:36:52.670 --> 00:36:59.490
people for a long time. But what's been
interesting about the structure is so
419
00:36:59.490 --> 00:37:02.580
we have an engagement marketing team
here at Panda Doc, and it's kind of
420
00:37:02.580 --> 00:37:09.040
we've we've taken content which is me
and my boss. And then we've taken email,
421
00:37:09.040 --> 00:37:12.970
marketing and customer marketing and
lumped them all underneath one boss,
422
00:37:12.970 --> 00:37:20.440
one team. And we're really responsible
for creating content that replicates
423
00:37:20.450 --> 00:37:25.150
how people actually buy. So our model
we use a content marketing framework
424
00:37:25.160 --> 00:37:29.370
that supports Eugene and the demand
Jen's efforts. But we're really focused
425
00:37:29.370 --> 00:37:35.640
on educational content, inspirational
content and what we call execution
426
00:37:35.640 --> 00:37:39.910
content. So first people need
inspiration, then they need education,
427
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.800
and then they need execution of how to
actually execute that. That specific
428
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:49.080
thing and a lot of our content is that
that we create on the engagement
429
00:37:49.080 --> 00:37:52.630
marketing team is going to be what
Eugene was talking about at the end.
430
00:37:52.630 --> 00:37:56.480
There brand awareness focused and
really building up the reputation of
431
00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:01.790
panda Doc, um, and growing our our
overall audience. And then Eugene has
432
00:38:01.790 --> 00:38:07.040
his own kind of separate content army
of freelancers that he mentioned, and
433
00:38:07.040 --> 00:38:11.560
that's a group of folks who are going
to really help with the CEO content and
434
00:38:11.560 --> 00:38:15.030
making sure that the queries that he
was talking about are being answered.
435
00:38:15.220 --> 00:38:19.100
They're going to be responsible for
creating dozens of pages on our website
436
00:38:19.110 --> 00:38:24.970
every month blog articles, pillar pages.
So I just wanted to give that context
437
00:38:24.970 --> 00:38:29.060
to like, there's almost like we have
two separate content teams here at
438
00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:34.680
Panda, Doc. Um, and that's what it
takes to compete in this world on on
439
00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:40.950
both search engines and on social. So
it is a real machine here at Panda. Doc,
440
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.770
that's awesome. Yeah. So I have a
question, and it's it's kind of going
441
00:38:44.770 --> 00:38:48.780
back to basics here, but I want to know,
you know, you talk about all these
442
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:51.500
strategies that you have in place and
you're talking about how you guys are
443
00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:56.060
growing. Can you talk to me a little
bit? About How do you know that your
444
00:38:56.060 --> 00:39:00.330
demand generation strategies are
successful? How do you measure success?
445
00:39:01.020 --> 00:39:09.070
So, uh, right now, everything in panda
doc is focused on pipeline and each
446
00:39:09.070 --> 00:39:16.050
activity. Uh, we each test we Iranian
is focused on pipeline. And if to speak
447
00:39:16.050 --> 00:39:22.010
about a channels when we make a test
with, for example, new at methodology
448
00:39:22.010 --> 00:39:26.890
appeared in the market, everything is
focused on pipeline. So we have some
449
00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:31.290
internal metrics, of course, of
opportunity. We can make some, um,
450
00:39:31.290 --> 00:39:37.360
spend for this channel to start working
on a visit to optimize. If we reach it
451
00:39:37.370 --> 00:39:42.010
Like in pilot Test, for example, we
continue working with this channel. If
452
00:39:42.010 --> 00:39:49.340
not, we're when to stop. Always put it
on DeLay, but usually, like we have a
453
00:39:49.350 --> 00:39:55.550
first post of opportunity, which we can
heat this first test. No, imagine it
454
00:39:55.550 --> 00:40:02.130
like $5000 we can hit for opportunity.
If we do it, we continue working with
455
00:40:02.130 --> 00:40:08.060
this channel. This cost. It's not ideal
but its cost of our like opportunity.
456
00:40:08.070 --> 00:40:12.890
We can work with optimized channel
because we every time I understand that
457
00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:19.520
if we start new test or develop new
channel, we can improve it a lot like
458
00:40:19.530 --> 00:40:24.650
in future. So we have some, like high
grade opportunity, cost of opportunity
459
00:40:24.650 --> 00:40:29.920
we can reach, uh, if we do it. So we
are aging this Channel two but look of
460
00:40:29.930 --> 00:40:34.330
like improvement activities, and we
worked with it. If not so. We was a
461
00:40:34.330 --> 00:40:38.290
close, whether we repeat like some
months, and then I was going to say,
462
00:40:38.290 --> 00:40:43.130
Like if anybody listening is a fan of
Chris Walker's and the demands and
463
00:40:43.130 --> 00:40:49.360
podcast he does, Eugene made a very
pregnant comment, which was We care
464
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:54.220
about pipeline, which is that that that
really resonates with with Chris
465
00:40:54.220 --> 00:40:58.390
philosophy. We're not necessarily as
concerned about the number of leads
466
00:40:58.390 --> 00:41:02.050
were driving. All we care about is
revenue, right? Like that's what Eugene,
467
00:41:02.060 --> 00:41:06.270
ultimately, I mean, he is paying
attention and considering cost of
468
00:41:06.270 --> 00:41:12.610
opportunity and cost to lead and all
that stuff. But ultimately the goal is
469
00:41:12.610 --> 00:41:19.210
Did that person or that company convert
and how did they do it? And so, you
470
00:41:19.210 --> 00:41:24.010
know, a big thing that we've learned
here is the quality of the leads that
471
00:41:24.010 --> 00:41:28.200
we talked about earlier like we'd have.
We'd be much happier having fewer leads
472
00:41:28.210 --> 00:41:32.690
if they're higher quality leads. And we
realized that, uh, somebody requesting
473
00:41:32.690 --> 00:41:38.690
a demo I mean, that's one of the
highest converting leads to us. So
474
00:41:38.690 --> 00:41:43.340
everything else is just noise. Until we
can get them to request a demo or pick
475
00:41:43.340 --> 00:41:48.610
up the phone and call us. We have our
phone number on the very top of our
476
00:41:48.610 --> 00:41:52.660
website. Now, that was a new kind of
development in the last year and a half
477
00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:56.570
that I've seen. We didn't have before
people actually picking up the phone,
478
00:41:56.570 --> 00:42:00.580
calling us requesting a demo. We've got
the chat pot. You know, we've got the
479
00:42:00.580 --> 00:42:04.500
drift, but the panda pop on our website,
and they all are converting at
480
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:08.890
different levels. And Eugene is
definitely good about educating us on
481
00:42:08.890 --> 00:42:13.140
the content team and the engagement
team about like, which leads actually
482
00:42:13.150 --> 00:42:18.400
are like kicking ass when they convert
to become an actual customer. And, uh,
483
00:42:18.410 --> 00:42:23.730
trial is okay. Free. We have a free
plan there. Okay. But really, it's like
484
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:29.590
that request a demo is that's the
Golden Nugget for us. Really? Yeah. To
485
00:42:29.590 --> 00:42:32.960
Travis words, maybe What I can have
that what I've mentioned in the
486
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.320
beginning of the call, we have overall
a lot of traffic on our website right
487
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:43.230
now. More than a million, uh, unique
new visitors like visit underdog each
488
00:42:43.230 --> 00:42:49.610
month, and we overall, with this
traffic can get a lot of leads. But in
489
00:42:49.610 --> 00:42:57.330
a lot of cases, we prefer to warm lead
more to make him more warm and increase
490
00:42:57.330 --> 00:43:04.270
his quality than to get total volume.
So, in our user journeys in on some
491
00:43:04.270 --> 00:43:10.980
pages, user, for example, can miss
opportunity to live an email, and we do
492
00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:17.510
it to decrease volume of some low
intent called the wit and to borrow
493
00:43:17.510 --> 00:43:25.670
them up. And, yeah, overall strategy is
more quality and not, uh, volume. Yeah,
494
00:43:25.680 --> 00:43:29.690
that's a great example, Eugene. Like
he's doing that all the time. And in
495
00:43:29.690 --> 00:43:33.820
slack, he'll send this long thread,
which I love reading them, just like,
496
00:43:33.830 --> 00:43:38.510
Hey, guys, we just ran a test for the
last two months, and we noticed that if
497
00:43:38.520 --> 00:43:41.620
by adding this checkbox, we actually,
you know, I'm just giving an example. I
498
00:43:41.620 --> 00:43:44.980
don't think this is an actual one, but
like by adding this checkbox in this
499
00:43:44.980 --> 00:43:49.460
form, uh, we had more leads come
through, but they were crap your
500
00:43:49.460 --> 00:43:54.860
quality. So we're gonna remove the
check box and, um, you know, it's very
501
00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:59.100
factual base. It's very a B based. So
it's cool to see that from the content
502
00:43:59.100 --> 00:44:03.600
side. It always gets me excited when we
when we learn, even if it's a bad
503
00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:08.660
learning, it's still learning. So
that's always my takeaway. Usually I'm
504
00:44:08.670 --> 00:44:13.850
learning from them about Travis. Is
there anything else you can think of
505
00:44:13.850 --> 00:44:18.530
that you and Eugene maybe could lean
into as far as demand? Gen goes over a
506
00:44:18.530 --> 00:44:20.940
panda? Doc, I don't want to miss
anything here. I think that this has
507
00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:24.300
been so helpful and so knowledgeable.
But I want to give you guys the
508
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:28.010
opportunity to share anything I might
have missed or I might not have asked.
509
00:44:28.590 --> 00:44:32.490
Um, one thing that's been interesting
is like there's a lot of buzz behind
510
00:44:32.490 --> 00:44:36.940
clubhouse and I know the sweet fish
team host club house all the time, and
511
00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:40.730
there's been pushed internally from our
CEO. Messaging me like Travis needs to
512
00:44:40.730 --> 00:44:44.160
be on clubhouse people on the demand
gen team. We need to be on the
513
00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:50.590
clubhouse and unfortunately, like the
we were just starting a podcast at the
514
00:44:50.590 --> 00:44:55.800
same time clubhouse was taking off and
our team has made the decision to not
515
00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:00.620
chase the shiny object just yet. And
just try to, you know, when you go to a
516
00:45:00.620 --> 00:45:04.400
restaurant and they have, like, a
million menu items and they're all
517
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:09.970
you're like, Well, this restaurant must
just do everything kind of okay. And
518
00:45:09.970 --> 00:45:12.370
then you go to a restaurant, they have
a menu and they've got, like, two or
519
00:45:12.370 --> 00:45:14.770
three things for you to choose from,
and that's it. But they're all
520
00:45:14.780 --> 00:45:20.400
excellent. And so for us, we're trying
to strike a balance and So at the
521
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.660
moment we're not on clubhouse. And I
know a lot of people have been asking
522
00:45:23.660 --> 00:45:27.120
me. Well, why not? And it's like I'm
focused on making sure that the quality
523
00:45:27.120 --> 00:45:34.360
of our podcast is like, top tier, that
people are looking to us as, you know,
524
00:45:34.370 --> 00:45:38.790
an inspiration for how to do a business
podcast right now. So I'm gonna do a
525
00:45:38.790 --> 00:45:41.900
quick plug. Go check us out the
customer engagement lab podcast. If
526
00:45:41.900 --> 00:45:46.680
you're listening to this business
comedy podcast that paradox host. And,
527
00:45:46.690 --> 00:45:52.000
um so, yeah, I would say, like we're
interested in not always chasing the
528
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.950
shiny object and that that can
Sometimes we can talk about that for a
529
00:45:56.950 --> 00:46:02.390
long time, of arguing back and forth of
the if that works or not. But don't try
530
00:46:02.390 --> 00:46:07.030
to do too many things. Find out what
works by testing like Eugene does all
531
00:46:07.030 --> 00:46:09.980
this amazing testing and then
replicated and stick with it. And then
532
00:46:09.990 --> 00:46:13.050
eventually, when you have more budget,
you have more time. You have more
533
00:46:13.050 --> 00:46:16.880
resources and people on your team. You
can afford to do some testing in other
534
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:23.730
areas, but with us so far, you know,
we've seen our Arlington audience grow
535
00:46:23.730 --> 00:46:30.920
by 25% since launching the podcast, and
you know that that's huge for us. And
536
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.570
that's important that we that we
continue to see that channel go up. So
537
00:46:34.580 --> 00:46:40.450
we're staying focused so far. Uh, what
we see, overall, in demand generation
538
00:46:40.460 --> 00:46:47.380
for some years, the total, uh,
competition is going up. I can say
539
00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:55.100
about our niche. But during 23 years,
CPC are gaining search competition
540
00:46:55.110 --> 00:46:59.880
increased three fund four times by
different peoples. And I think, uh,
541
00:46:59.890 --> 00:47:07.100
it's a future of many B two B niches.
Overall, that competition will going up
542
00:47:07.110 --> 00:47:15.190
and you need to invest in quality and
in creativity. So it's, I think, our
543
00:47:15.190 --> 00:47:22.100
future to that. To be competitive in
the market, we need to step up with
544
00:47:22.100 --> 00:47:28.170
quality of everything we produce
banners, design, content, all assets.
545
00:47:28.170 --> 00:47:34.310
We do. So, uh, it's where we've already
started in west not doing something
546
00:47:34.310 --> 00:47:38.730
broader and wider, but we are
increasing quality of what we do. The
547
00:47:38.740 --> 00:47:43.680
numbers prove it. So competition is
going up and, uh, to stay competitive.
548
00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:48.170
We need to step up with quality of
everything we do. 100%. I love it. Well,
549
00:47:48.170 --> 00:47:51.620
this has been so, So great. Eugene and
Travis, thank you both so much for
550
00:47:51.620 --> 00:47:55.710
joining me. Travis, I know you already
plugged the podcast, but otherwise,
551
00:47:55.710 --> 00:47:58.780
where can people find you and paying
the doc online if they're interested in
552
00:47:58.780 --> 00:48:03.320
learning more? Yeah. Follow us on
LinkedIn. We're big on LinkedIn. Panda.
553
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:08.860
Doc, you can find me Travis Tyler. You
can also find Eugene Zaremba as well on
554
00:48:08.860 --> 00:48:15.760
LinkedIn and go check out our YouTube
page and, uh, definitely add our
555
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:19.840
podcast to your rotation. You want a
good laugh? The business faces too
556
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:23.290
serious, too buttoned up. We need to
loosen up and have some fun. Let her
557
00:48:23.290 --> 00:48:27.330
hair down. That's what we're doing on
the podcast. Absolutely fantastic again.
558
00:48:27.330 --> 00:48:30.630
Thank you both. So much for joining me
on GDP growth. Thank you. Thank you.
559
00:48:31.210 --> 00:48:32.800
All right. Thanks. Everyone
560
00:48:34.680 --> 00:48:38.600
is your buyer at BBB Marketer. If so,
you should think about sponsoring this
561
00:48:38.600 --> 00:48:43.550
podcast. BTB growth gets downloaded
over 130,000 times each month, and our
562
00:48:43.550 --> 00:48:47.360
listeners are marketing decision makers.
If it sounds interesting, send Logan
563
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:50.210
and email Logan at sweet Fish media dot
com.