Transcript
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this is B two B growth A show designed
to help B two B marketing and sales
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teams be highly effective. I'm your
host Benji Block and a member of the
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sweet fish team and I'm really ready
for today's episode today. I'm joined
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by john Morris, john is the executive
director of brand at club colors, john
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welcome in to be, to be growth Benji,
How are you sir? Thanks for having me
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on. I'm doing great. I'm excited to be
talking to you today. It's gonna be a
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fun time together as we dive in. John
let me ask you this question just right
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off the top before we even get to the
topic of, of discussion really, but
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like what's the best thing about your
job and what you get to do day in and
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day out. Um, and I got to tell you
there's a couple things, number one,
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the culture of club colors is
absolutely dynamic. It's a riot. Um,
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one of our core values is winning is
fun. And so it's a culture that's
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predicated on the fact that we're going
to battle. We're gonna get in the
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trenches and we're gonna have an
absolute blast doing it, but it's all
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about winning for the client. We say
things like make the client the hero.
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So it's really a client first thing. So
we have real pride of brand. When I say
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pride of brand, I don't mean just club
colors. I mean the brands that we
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represent and work with, that we have
an opportunity to help them to make
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their brand pop and shine and bring out
their culture. That's something that's
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extremely important to us and something
that we really thrive on. So I get a
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real kick out of our culture. I get a
real kick out of the people that we
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interact with, not only internally but
externally as well. Yeah, I was gonna
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say for me, I totally resonate with
that because it's these kind of
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conversations, right? Just to get to
connect with people that are thinking
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big, they're making making moves, it's
fun. And I love learning from each and
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every one of these these chats. So I'm
excited to talk to you and to glean
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some insights today personally and I
know our audience is gonna grab so much
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from this conversation as well. So I
reached out to you after seeing and I
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don't even know if I told you this, but
a post that you made on linkedin a
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video and they're just felt like
there's some similar passion and vision
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and so I thought it'd be fun to have
you here on an episode. So what I want
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to do, john is I want to throw a phrase
at you that I heard you say and I just
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want you to unpack it a bit for me.
Okay, sure. All right, so here's the
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phrase give more, get more, give more,
get more what comes to mind when I say
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that Yeah, this is this is really
something that for me comes from the
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belief that being a steward is one of
the most important things that you
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could do in life and in your career.
And I really believe that I believe in
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energy, right? And if you give
everything of yourself and you put
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everything out there and um you really
come at things with a positive mindset,
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I have a saying that mindset behavior
technique equals sales success, mindset
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behavior technique, equal sales success.
Well, guess what? Everything for me
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starts with a mindset and that mindset,
if it's centered properly, where you're
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putting your time and effort and energy
into others, then ultimately what's
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going to happen is that's going to come
back to you over and over and over
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again. So that's kind of later on in my
career, on the way that my life has
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played out. That's been the purpose
that I've tried to operate with, that
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if you give more to your, your team and
your clients, you're going to get
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better results. Yeah. And I love that
phrase. And when it's taken to heart, I
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mean, it's gonna have a lot of effects
on your decision making process, right?
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So in sales and in marketing there's
just kind of like a domino effect that
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is going to happen if you take on that
mentality. If we're saying give more,
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john, what exactly are we advocating
for? Like, walk that out? Practically.
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Well, just think about it from this way,
like active listening, right? We know
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about how important Active listening is.
Well, if you're genuine with Active
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listening in order to be able to give
something to somebody to be able to
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create solutions for somebody, you
really have to put the time and energy
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into understanding what it is that they
want. Well, there's no way to truly do
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that. If what you're thinking about
while they're talking is what you're
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going to say next. Right? Right. So the
idea of active listening is a great
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principle in life. It's that you're
genuinely taking a real interest of
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curiosity into the desired outcome that
your potential client has or your
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current client has and you're taking
the time to dig deep into that. I don't
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want to be too cliche, but we always
talk about like peeling the onion. Well,
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you know, guess what cliches are
cliches for a reason. They probably
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work and they work for a long time. The
reality is that if you take the time to
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really dig deep into what the desired
outcome is for a prospective client,
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what you're going to end up doing is
learning more and more about what makes
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them tick, what's their driver, how you
can impact them as a person. I call it
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the want behind the want behind the one,
Right? So whenever we approach a client,
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we're always thinking about what, what,
what they want. So we can fit in where
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our solution is and then ultimately
convert that into a sale and a
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partnership. The reality is that if you
really want to get deep with somebody
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and you really want to impact that
human being, you should be looking for
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the wand behind the wand, behind the
wand, What's the want behind the wand?
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It's not just your product or service,
it's the impact that it has on their
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organization to resolve or impact or
positively impact the organization, but
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even deeper than that, How does that
impact that person that's making that
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decision? Could that be the thing that
gets them promoted? Could that be the
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thing that frees up their time so they
can take little bobby, your little
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little Betty to to practice more often?
Could it be the thing that drives
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quality of life for them? So if you can
get to that, then you have a stronger
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likelihood of really getting a personal
connection, You also have a stronger
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likelihood of getting them to take
action and that's Yeah, because you
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understand motive, right? And that's
obviously that's going to be huge in
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sales and marketing. I love that. And I
also think you convicted so much of
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sales and marketing team members just
now when you said to actively listen,
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you know, the thing is to bend you like
what's the driver that somebody has in
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their decision making? One of the
biggest challenges that we have in
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sales is when clients always make it
about price. Well if you don't dig deep
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enough to understand what the emotional
element of their decision making is the
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want behind that want and you stay at
that price point. You end up in a
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negotiation, nobody wants that hand to
hand combat negotiating sales style
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anymore. That's not how people buy,
that's you selling to them. So the end
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goal is for us to get the client to get
to a point where they go, I should buy
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from you because you care about me. You
believe I matter, you understand my
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greater purpose and sparked too often
we get caught up on just trying to make
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a sale based on I have this product, I
have this service. This works for you
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don't you want it? And I'm gonna
convince you if you're spending your
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time trying to convince a client, you
might be in the wrong game and you need
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to backtrack and start figuring out
what's going to get them influenced to
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buy. What do you see in the current
landscape or in the way that maybe it's
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been in the past that's really
frustrating to you, john. Because even
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just coming out of what you just said?
I think there is some old mentality
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that still is kind of lingering as we
see so much of sales and marketing
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shift. Right? What do you see that's
still frustrated to you? What's
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frustrating to me is and this happens
to me, especially as I've gone from
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Director of sales to executive director
of brand. Now, I'm now I'm more of a
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buyer, whereas before I was more of an
influencer and trying to drive revenue
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from my organization. Now I'm, I'm
hearing more from people that are
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trying to sell me to help me to drive
our brand. And what I find far too
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often is I'll get like the a I bought
five paragraph email in my DM that
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doesn't talk about it in any way, shape
or form that give more, get more
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philosophy. Like take a minute to
understand my profile, what drives me,
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what's my brand about? Um, what's my
organization doing? So for instance,
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I'll get people often that will tell me
I've got this great way to solve your
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lead generation problem. Here's the
problem. I don't have a lead generation
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problem. Yeah. We're actually on a
major growth track right now and
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probably one thing that is really
important for us is getting the right
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people on the bus to keep up with the
growth. So it's interesting how people
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would just come at you with, I have
this, this great solution for you
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without taking the time to get to know
you and understand what is my want
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behind my want, what's our driver and
whether or not it's even a compelling
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argument for them to be talking to me
at this point and if they would take
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the time to kind of dig in and get to
know people first, then there's a
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stronger likelihood that I might not be
the right answer for you, but I might
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know somebody who is well, if you come
at me that way, I'm not going to get
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you to the point where I'm gonna
introduce you to somebody who would be
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a good prospect for you, right? So
that's the frustration I have is people
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far too often want to sell their
product instead of establishing and
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engaging in an intelligent, humanistic
communication where there's real
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connection and a bond that's created
and then becoming influencers for each
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other instead of like treating me like
I'm a decision maker, Maybe I'm not the
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right person, but if you come at me
wrong, I'm not going to get you to the
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right person. If you come at me right,
then I might become somebody that fuels
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that opportunity for you and drives you
to that right person. That right
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decision maker. That's ultra
frustrating. It is frustrating. I
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resonate so, so much with that assumed
problems that we just blanket over
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whole groups of people like, oh, they
must all struggle with lead generation,
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like exactly what you're saying, where
we sales teams can just assume they
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know that everyone has these core
issues or they asked hyper general
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questions right? And like everyone's
going to answer that question the same
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and they're just trying to find that
little way in. I love that. Dm wouldn't
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you love to drive your revenue,
wouldn't you love to maximize your
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profit. And then when you say, well of
course I would or you say, no man, I
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don't want to do that, then they're
like, so you mean to tell me you want
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to drive your profitability? I think
that's lazy sales. I think it really is,
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and I think that people that are really,
really effective in sales have
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intentional activity, They're really
intentional in their activity and
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they're not just going through the
motions of activity. I think you can
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really weed out the top performers from
the average or they're not so great
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performers on how they approach the
activity. Are you working your call
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account? Are you working your your
touch points or you actually really
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trying to become a solution for
somebody? You can't become a solution
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for somebody until you understand what
their challenges are and you're not
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going to get to the challenges until
you build trust and you ain't going to
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build trust with coming at me with an
Ai five paragraph D. M. Yeah, so no
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more lazy sales. I love that. We're
gonna become a solution for somebody.
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So that obviously leads to the next
question, which would be okay, we're
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setting aside old habits or lazy
routine, whatever it is and we're
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moving into a new way? What do you see
as being the new way? What do you see
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as working for you when we start to
think about being more relational and
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maybe content even driven right in our
in our approach? Well, I think far too
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often folks are going right in with
their presentation of what their
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products and services are, instead of
putting out, you know, content creation
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and media creation that essentially
discusses who their brand is. What is
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their, why, what drives them as a human
being, what's their purpose? How were
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they able to take somebody that had a
challenge and get them to the promised
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land and talk about it in third person?
You know, that's the other thing, that
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is a challenge. I think far too many
people in sales want to speak in first
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person like this is what I can do for
you. Well, I gotta tell you whenever
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I've said to a client, this is what I
can do for you. I feel them back up.
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There's a natural thing that happens
when somebody is being approached and
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you say this is what I can do for you,
or this is how I can help you before
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they've asked for help. There's a
natural resistance that happens. So we
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actually create an objection for
ourselves before we need that objection.
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Everything that we say in sales either
overcomes an objection or creates an
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objection. Why in the world would you
create objections for yourself by
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essentially assuming that you can help
somebody and causing them to have that
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resistance um that builds up, so I
always think that content is great in
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speaking in third person, this is what
I do for my most successful clients,
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this is the impact that I have on some
of my most successful clients lay out
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the start point where you started with
somebody, what trials and tribulations
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happen, how you overcame that and how
that created a solution for somebody,
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talk about that through your content
creation and then have a call to action
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that causes somebody to say, okay, well
I'll give you a shot to prove that, you
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know, with our clients, we've got this
logo challenge. I think we talked about
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that where we essentially say, hey look,
you don't need, you don't need to
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believe the words I'm saying to you
right now and you're not gonna believe
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them because I haven't earned the right
yet. Let me earn the right by proving
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it to you with a sample of what our
capability is at no cost to you. So you
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can touch it, feel it, where it see it.
And then at that point, once you feel
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comfortable with that, then we'll start
to build on what the wants are and the
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needs are. So we actually have this
process of creating content, um, that
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talks about or why it talks about a
greater purpose, talks about who we are
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and makes people feel our culture and
then in them feeling our culture,
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they're intrigued and then by taking
the logo challenge, they get a free
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logoed item with their company brand on
it, a quarter zip or a blanket or
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whatever it is, they decide to order
once they get that they go, wow, this
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is really cool. They gave me something
now I'm at a neutral point, I'm willing
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to actually engage and allow you to
earn my trust. So by getting that in
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their hands, it makes the conversation
the next conversation a lot easier
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because they already know what the
quality of the work is. Hey everyone
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Emily brady with sweet fish here. If
you've been listening to B two B growth
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for a while, you know, we are big
proponents of putting out original
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organic content on linkedin. But one
thing that has always been a struggle
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for a team like ours is easily tracking
the reach of that linkedin content.
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That is why we are really excited about
Shield analytics. Since our team
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started using Shield, we've been able
to easily track the reaching
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performance of Arlington content
without having to manually log it
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ourselves. It automatically creates
reports and generates dashboards that
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are incredibly useful to determining
things like what content has been
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performing the best, what days of the
week we're getting the most engagement
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and our average views proposed shield
has been a game changer for our entire
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team's productivity and performance on
linkedin. I highly suggest checking out
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this tool if you're publishing content
on linkedin for yourself or your
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company, you can get a 10 day free
trial at shield app dot Ai or you can
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get a 25% discount with our promo code
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dot Ai and the promo code is b the
number to be growth. All one word for a
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25% discount. Alright, let's get back
to the show. Yeah, there's so much I
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want to dive into there because I think
the logo challenge is a intriguing part
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of a content strategy. So let's back up
a couple of steps and then we'll get
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there. Talk to me about those first
active steps, like what you've actively
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tried to do to share culture, what's
working for you right now in that sort
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of phase. Yeah, so I think it's whether
it's a company brand or it's an
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individual. I think every single
salesperson should be building their
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own personal brand within the pillars
of the company brand, meaning the
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overall organization. The brand has a
vision for the organization, it's not
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your job as a salesperson to create the
vision for the company, it's your job
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to carry out the vision, but you should
be creating your own personal brand
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within that brand and you should be
creating content that has a cadence. So
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what I like to what I like to do with
my content creation is to be vulnerable
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and authentic first. So I'll talk about
things that are near and dear to my
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heart, family, things that I do outside
of work, like coaching young athletes,
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I'll talk about trials and tribulations
that I've had in life, whether it be,
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you know, overcoming challenges mental
health or you know, just perspective,
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right? Things that inspire. So you kind
of start with that to get people to go,
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this is a real person, not just trying
to make a sale all the time. Then the
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next phase, the next step is to create
some sort of content that really
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expresses the culture of the
organization that hey, this is a great
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company with great people that has a
ton of energy, a ton of passion and
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there's proof of concept that they do
it on their own. I think that's a big
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thing is companies want to know that if
you are trying to sell us a product or
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service, do you have proof of concept,
do you do it yourself and you do it
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well. So we create content that shows
you know that we are, who we say we are
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and what we believe and then it's real,
it's authentic and that it's a very
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vibrant culture. And then from there
there is a call to action and then we
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promote the organization. Right? So
it's the cadence is raw, authentic,
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humanistic, then talk about the overall
organization, the culture then promote
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your solution. Then in that promotion
of the solution, there is a call to
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action, which in this case is dropping
the logo challenge in the comments,
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somebody takes that now we know that
they're engaged and then there's a
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follow up to that where we can actually
start to dig deep into who they are all
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very insightful, go through a little
bit more on the logo challenge for me
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because we want to be able to apply
that across industry, you know what I
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mean? Like I want to be able to give a
takeaway here to our audience and they
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go, I'm gonna leave and I wanna, I
wanna take what john said and think
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about ways I can use it in a different
space. Right? So what's kind of the key
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elements there and what have you found
to be really successful for you guys?
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So Benji, 20 years ago, 25 years ago
when I was coming up in sales, all the
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sales trainers always taught me was
never tell the client what the solution
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is. Never give them the solution, right?
You gotta so odd. Right? So odd. Right?
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So this new generation of salespeople,
which by the way, are 100 times better
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than the absolute stone cold killer
sales people 25 years ago, they are all
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about influence and guidance and again,
giving more. So this is consistent with
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that new style of selling where people
don't want to be closed, they want to
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buy. Right? So it's guiding them to buy.
So think about it this way for us
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because we do branded apparel and hard,
good products that our logo, we can put
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this logo challenge in there with
somebody clicks on a link and go pick
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the product, put their their jpeg or
vector file their logo in there, we'll
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decorate it, drop ship it directly to
them within five days. They open up the
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box, they have this wow factor and go,
oh my gosh, this is so cool. They
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really did send me something free and
its logo, this is great. Now they want
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to engage. Well obviously that's the
industry we're in. So let's say that
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you're an advisor, let's say that you
sell insurance, let's say that you sell
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wealth management or let's say that you
sell some sort of other type of service,
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give them some answers to the test,
give them some solutions, give them
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guidance. So maybe your type of version
of logo challenge could be a little one
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pager deck that gives the five or six
absolute biggest challenges that you
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should look out for within our industry
that perhaps other companies might tell
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you and we're going to tell you the
truth. This is what it really is. We're
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going to give you the answers to the
test, right? So maybe give them some
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real insight and some real data that
they can actually use on their own that
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may not might not get you to an
immediate close what makes you
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memorable. You capture their attention
and you're gonna stay front of mind
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with that client because you gave them
facts, you gave them data that's usable
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from there. You've got something now
because if they go with another company
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and they don't get the result they were
looking for or they get caught up in
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that negotiating type of sale, they're
gonna come to you now and you're gonna
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have a much better opportunity because
that trust factor has been built in,
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yep, give the answers to the test. It's
so true. And a lot of times it also
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exposes like man this is there's so
much effort that we're going to have to
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put in, right? Like you see what the
answers are and you're like, oh this is
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a lot of work, they already have the
answers, why don't we hire them to do
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it? And Benji, that's the absolute
trick, right? So the reality is any
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company that hires somebody to provide
them with some sort of value and
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benefit more likely it's because they
can't do it on their own. You know,
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it's time money knowledge. Right? So
there's three things that you're
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looking for TMK Time money knowledge,
that's what people are looking for. Can
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you save them time or make better use
of their time, can you create a better
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return on investment than they have
currently or save them money because
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you have a better mousetrap or can you
provide them with something that gives
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them more data, more knowledge, more
expertise that they have a better
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likelihood of success, right? So maybe
the local challenges somebody would use,
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or some version of that would be
incorporating those three things. How
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are you gonna save them time? How are
you going to make better use of their
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money and how are you going to provide
them more knowledge? I think the
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knowledge part for a lot of companies
is the best thing. If you can teach
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them five or six things that they need
to look out for when talking to
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somebody in your industry, misnomers,
give him the back office information.
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Um, ultimately, let's remember, if they
could do it on their own, they would
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have done it by now. They're typically
not looking for a solution because they
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want to do it themselves, they're
looking for somebody else to do it, but
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they want to know whether or not you're
the right person to do it for them. And
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truthfully if all they need is
knowledge and you can give that away. I
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mean, that is still not lost because
the back and forth is still worth it.
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The, the connection that's made there,
who knows what it turns into down the
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road and you're giving away information
for free. It's still like even it makes
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you an expert in the space, right? Like
you having to work through it and give
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it away for free. Like, there really is
no downside there, but I understand why
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there would be a perceived downside. I
don't think somebody can be considered
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an expert either until they can
absolutely and teach it to somebody
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that at a level, right? Where you're
not using insider baseball language,
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you got to leave a few things where
they still gotta, there's still gotta
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be compelled to want to do business
with you. But if you can really give
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your prospective client the answers to
the test and teach them something so
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that there are more educated buyer or
remember sometimes the person you're
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talking to is not the ultimate decision
maker. So one of the best things you
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can possibly do is teach the person
you're talking to, how to sell the
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person that is the decision maker. So
sometimes you have to do it because
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they got to walk into somebody else's
office and make the sale to go with you.
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Yeah, john tell me some of the results
you've seen from this approach and just
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give us maybe an example. What's been
amazing is people don't necessarily
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like the cold call. I think cold
calling is extremely important, but I
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think what has happened is the results
have been, if somebody takes the time
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to go through the steps of answering
the questions and engage on that level
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and receives the package and receives
that free item, they now feel compelled
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to at least have the conversation. So
what ends up happening is the initial
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presentations that we have with clients,
they're far more engaged in some cases
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they're wearing or utilizing the item
in the zoom call that we have with them
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or in the live presentation they have
it on, so they're now engaged and
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they're already kind of part of the
team. So what's happened is it's driven
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our closing percentage up significantly.
And it also weeds out a lot of folks
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because in sales, I think what's
extremely important is not only
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qualifying clients but disqualifying
clients. So by gathering that
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information, we can recognize whether
or not it's a client that would simply
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be transactional, which is not a huge
factor for us. We're not looking for
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transactional clients were looking for
partnerships. So it allows us to weed
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out the clients that maybe you're only
going to make one or two branded item
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orders per year. There's tons of
solutions out there for them. We may
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not be that person. We're looking for
companies that want brand management,
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want advisement and want the whole
suite of services that we have to offer.
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So it eliminates and weeds out the
prospects that are not strong
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candidates for us that we don't go down
a dead end. And it highlights those
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clients that would be fantastic. Target
audiences for us. So we can spend a lot
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of time and energy nurturing that
relationship building trust and
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ultimately creating partnerships.
Fantastic. What a good conversation
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there's so much here, give more, get
more, it's easy to remember. It's
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something that I'm walking away with,
but I'm walking away with several other
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things. So here's, here's my quick
white board summary because I'm always
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writing down notes on my whiteboard
when I'm having these conversations,
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mindset, behavior technique equals
sales success. That was a big one early
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in our conversation. No more lazy sales,
right? We're going to become a solution
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for somebody. I think that that is a
fantastic approach and then give away
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the answers to the test. That's how you
give more. Right? You, you don't try to
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hold something and wait right? Like if
you can help somebody, you just help
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them and let that lead where it may.
But that's a fantastic stuff johN
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anything you would add here as we begin
to wrap up. No Benji, it's been
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fantastic. You're a great host and I've
been waiting for this and thrilled to
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do it really appreciate it. Just hope
that folks will check out club colors
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and give us an opportunity to showcase
what we're capable of doing. Yeah, johN,
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if people want to connect with you
further, how can they reach out. Yeah.
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So obviously I'm very active on
linkedin. So you can look up john
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Morris on linkedin, I got two clovers
by my name by the way, not just because
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I'm irish, but to weed out those bots.
So there's a clover in front of my name
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and a clover behind it. I know if you
send me a message and the clovers in
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front of john then you're a bot unless
you're really, really detailed. You can
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go to our website at www dot club
colors dot com and by the way, I will
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send you that logo challenge, get
yourself a free item. I'll show you the
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quality of the club colors provides.
You can also check out my podcast in
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the club on our club colors Youtube
channel. I am the host. Not nearly as
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good as you though, Benji. Well, I
appreciate that compliment and it's
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been such a fun back and forth here and
man for everybody listening. Hey, let's
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be intentional givers as we leave this
this episode, we're always we want to
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be the people that are always looking
to help people and not as worried about
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what we're going to get. And it's funny
how there's kind of this paradox right
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in the world that we live in where
truly when we come from a place of
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giving, that's when we find abundance.
So, thanks for listening to another
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episode. You can find me as well on
linkedin. Just search Benji blocks. I'd
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love to connect with you and we'll talk
again.
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Mhm
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At sweet fish, we're on a mission to
create the most helpful content on the
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00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.290
internet for every job function and
industry on the planet for the B two B
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00:27:37.290 --> 00:27:41.330
marketing industry. This show is how
we're executing on that mission. If you
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00:27:41.330 --> 00:27:44.790
know a marketing leader that would be
an awesome guest for this podcast,
395
00:27:44.950 --> 00:27:48.370
shoot me a text message. Don't call me
because I don't answer unknown Numbers.
396
00:27:48.380 --> 00:27:55.110
But text me at 407-49033-8. Just shoot
me their name, maybe a link to their
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00:27:55.110 --> 00:27:59.040
linkedin profile. And I'd love to check
them out to see if we can get them on
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the show. Thanks a lot.