Transcript
WEBVTT
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whether it be revenue survey data, text
data website visits support tickets
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It's kind of like the amalgamation of
all of these data points that are
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important at the account level to gauge
sentiment. And sometimes, honestly,
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absence of signal is really what is
driving this account. Experience
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software in the back end. NPS Net
Promoter Score. It's been around for a
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while. Sometimes it gets beat up, but
it's still incredibly useful,
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especially if you evolve it to
monetized NPS. And today's guest on the
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C X series on B two b Growth talks
about an evolution from monetized MPs
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to account sentiment and account
experience. My name is Ethan Butte. I
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host the C X series here on B two b
growth, and I host the customer
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experience podcast. My guest today is a
marketer, Ian Luck, VP of global
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marketing at Customer Gauge. And if
you're marketing CS operations or any
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other team within your organization is
thinking about implementing C X
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programs. You will love this episode.
Here's Ian Luck of customer gauge The C
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X gap. It's the gap that leaves some
customer experience, initiatives and
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programs under resourced at best and D
o a at worst. Today we'll talk about
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what causes that gap and ways to
Bridget so that your team can start or
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continue identifying c X issues.
Advancing a more customer centric
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culture and developing seeks insights
with the support you need, among other
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activities and accomplishments. Our
guest today has served as a retention
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marketing manager. He's created an
online community for rapid growth
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marketers, and he founded his own
demand gen agency. He also served as VP
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of global marketing for customer gauge,
which combines experience and revenue
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data with account insights for clients
like H and R Block, Eventbrite and DHL
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so they can make more customer centric
decisions and grow revenue faster. Ian
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Luck Welcome to the customer experience
Podcast. Hey, thank you so much for
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that great intro. And it's been, uh,
it's phenomenal. Thank you. Yeah, I
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like a variety of things that you're
involved in. Talk a little bit about
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that. At what point did you decide
before we get into customer experience?
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At what point did you decide? You know
what this rapid growth marketing thing
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we need A We need to pull these people
together and create a culture and
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community around it. Yeah, so I'm not a
big proponent of LinkedIn right now.
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And if you go on LinkedIn, there are a
ton of sales experts on LinkedIn, and
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I'm talking like a massive amount of
people that are just kicking out some
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amazing insights every single day on
LinkedIn for sales. But I mean, and
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there's a good amount of marketers to
lately, especially now with like, uh,
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Clary drift those types of people,
Swedish media stepping up their game on
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LinkedIn. But there's not a true
community like, for example, sales
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Hacker is a great one for sales. But I
haven't really found that go to
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community for marketers where they can
share their deep insights at the
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tactical and strategic level. So that's
kind of what really drove me to create
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that marketing strategy dot com
community, and that's that's kind of
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been the history of it. It's started
from just a place of selfishness. I
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think I wanted a place for myself to
learn from other marketers, and, uh, we
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just rolled it out from there. That's
awesome. And there's something really
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strong about that sense of community
I'll never forget in a previous
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industry that I worked in. You know, I
felt like I was alone in my local
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market. And then you go to New York for
the big international conference.
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You're like, Oh, my gosh, all these
people are facing the same things. I'm
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facing the same problems they're facing.
They're like, Yeah, it's really nice to
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to feel like you're not alone,
especially today. So it's awesome. So
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let's start where we always start here,
which is customer experience when I say
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customer experience to you, Ian, what
does that mean to you? Oh my God,
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that's such a great question. It means
a ton of things. But if if I had to
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narrow it down, I think it's the
sentiment of your brand, your people,
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your process, your technology from the
perspective of your customers. And it
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encompasses every single touch point
you have across their entire journey.
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But it really, above all else, I think
it's like one of the only lasting
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differentiators that brands can
leverage for long term, profitable
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growth when it really comes down to it.
Great answer. I love it. It ties
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together so many things that I also
know are true of customer experience.
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First, you said. From the customer's
perspective and the customers, reality
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is the reality. We can argue about it
if we want to, but that is the reality.
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And, uh, the key point of
differentiation is the thing as well. I
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mean, beyond product, beyond features
beyond price, that is the
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differentiator that is difficult to
knock off and it starts inside out. You
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got it. And that's exactly what we're
seeing is that price promotion product
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placement are kind of the old marketing
mix, but I think it's being replaced by
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honestly experiences. Now. It's awesome.
So what do you? Um, I guess I'll just
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extend that a little bit. Where do you
think the intersection like? There's a
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school of thought that says customer
experience is an outgrowth of the
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customer success organization, and
that's where it lives. And that's where
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it comes from, and that's its
birthplace. But then there's also the
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look that is across the lifecycle kind
of a C R o type approach to see X,
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which is it is all of the customer
touchpoints, and it might come out of
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marketing for you. Where does C X come
from and what is its intersection with
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marketing or, you know, there's
obviously a deep relationship there.
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But what is that relationship to you?
Yeah, great question. I think at its
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core, properly run C X stems from the
ethos of the company itself. So whether
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it be from the founder that puts it in
place or the CEO, that makes it
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prioritized, you know, initiative at
the company level. I think it really
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does stem from who you guys are as a
company, but then it it really does
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spread across the entire order. Every
department should touch it in some way,
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shape or form. So I'm and I'm not
knocking customer success. I think
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there's definitely a purpose for it.
But I think what really sets some of
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the companies that do this experience
thing apart are the ones that
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integrated across all departments,
effectively tied to RY, tied to revenue
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and report at that level to the CEO. I
think that's really the difference that
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we talk about often, but it really for
me, it's it's across all touchpoints,
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all departments. It really has to be
for it to be a meaningful thing.
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Awesome. You really did a nice job of
previewing where we're gonna go here
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over the next several minutes. But
before we get there, I would love to
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start with customer gauge for folks who
aren't familiar, tell us a little bit
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about customer gauge specifically who
is your ideal customer? And what are
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some of the problems that you solve for
them? Yeah, So customer engages a BDB
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account experience software. So we
focused primarily on BDB companies, and
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what we do really well is we handle the
complexities that go along with those B
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to B companies. So a lot of these, uh,
customer experience software as they
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focus on, like, single contact type
feedback. What we do is we look at it
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from an account level. So if you're a
sales and marketing organization that
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have account based marketing processes
in place, we bolt on right to the
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customer side of that. We really focus
on providing a view of sentiment at the
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account level. And not only that, we
provide you with the tools to be
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proactive, to follow up with that
feedback in real time across multiple
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different departments, we have
dashboards for sales, marketing,
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customer success, whatever it may be.
But we really help you predict where
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turn will happen and get ahead of it
before it does happen. It's really what
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we do. Well, really interesting. So I
can imagine a number of data sources
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obviously plugging into and feeding it.
What are some common inputs to the
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material that you're reorganizing into
a very sensible fashion for people?
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Yeah. So the first one we start with is
honestly, revenue. We literally lead
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with revenue. So we want you to If you
have old survey data, we can upload
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that as well. But if you want to start
from the ground up, we basically say,
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all right, give us a list of accounts
with the revenue and then we start
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their actual experience program. We
send out survey, as we do in observing
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whatever it may be how we collect the
data. We take all of these inputs right?
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Whether it be revenue survey data, text
data, website visits, support tickets.
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It's kind of like that amalgamation of
all of these data points that are
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important at the county level to gauge
sentiment. And sometimes honestly,
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absence of signal is really what is
driving this account experience
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software. In the back end, it's It's
saying, All right, this account, we
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haven't really heard from them in a
little bit. Their last score was maybe
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a seven or six. They haven't visited
the website in a while. They haven't
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consumed content. That's kind of what
we have baked in the back end. That
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smart algorithm that really starts to
predict. Alright, maybe you might want
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to reach out to these guys now before
you know, six months before the renewal
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date to make sure that they don't turn.
And they have everything they need to
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continue your relationship with, uh, X
company. I love it. I love that you're
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example. There was that big, quiet
middle where you know they're not
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frustrated or confused enough to reach
out to support. They may be filling out
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the NPS surveys, and it's, you know,
it's good, not great. They're not
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obviously actively using the software,
and that is the big kind of silent
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threat in any customer database. Really.
You know, it's easy, easy, not fair to
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say, uh, but it's a great opportunity
anytime you have someone on the line to
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improve sentiment, whether they're
there because they're confused,
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frustrated or maybe even downright
angry. But There are some little things
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you can do to turn that around. And, of
course, your biggest friends, fans,
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advocates are already engaging with you.
And they're out there hopefully
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bringing you new customers and that
type of thing. But the opportunity to
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engage people who are just off the
radar, so, so valuable. I love it. One
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follow up there on the words sentiment,
right? Like you're talking about
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account sentiment and it's not account
activity. It's not account usage. It's
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not account expansion, although that's
kind of rolled into it. To me,
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sentiment has kind of a connotation.
That is, I really like it. It's it's a
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little warmer. It's a little more
feeling oriented, at least in some of
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its connotations. Talk about the choice
of the word sentiment there. Yeah, so
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what I mean by that is like exactly
what you said, Ethan. A lot of
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companies approach it from like, Hey,
let's get all of this random data and,
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like usage stats and things like that,
and I think that stems from customer
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success a little bit, and that's okay,
right? Like there's nothing wrong with
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that. But what we found to be very
valuable is actually getting sentiment
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across three levels of the organization.
Sea level middle management in the
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front line staff, right? So and this is
essentially, how does the sea level
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feel about your solution? How does the
middle management feel about your
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solution? How does the frontline feel
about your solution? And that is what
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we really mean by account sentiment.
Right? You get a very clear view, and
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this happens all the time. C. Leavell
loves it. They see the value of the
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solution. Middle management maybe split.
But then the frontline hates you, the
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front line, the people that are using
the product every single day. They are
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not happy with your solution at all.
They do not want to go into it every
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day. And that that's like common for a
lot of companies. And we work with a
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good amount of companies that have that
split. Where the sea level gets it,
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they see the value. But, you know,
maybe you could do some improvements to
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make the frontline stuff their
experience a little bit better. So when
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I say account sentiment, it's really
looking at it from a holistic
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standpoint, it's not just one contact
and randomly. Oh, this guy's BP
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marketing, right? It's really like
segment in your audience at the account
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level and then getting sentiment on
each individual section of those
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audiences. But then layering in those
other data sources, like visits like
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usage like support tickets. And that's
when you really start to get and we
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really lead. We believe in NPS like
that is our one of our main things. We
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really do get behind and stand if done
properly, because that really is the
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best indicator sentiment. But it's also
the best indicator of again long term,
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profitable growth. Now we also believe
MPs isn't necessarily enough anymore.
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You have to do some of those other
things, but that's really what we mean
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is like You get the sentiment at the
account level and and kind of layer in
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those extra little spices to hopefully
help you predict churn a little bit
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quicker, really good. We will probably
get to monetized MPs as a concept and
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as a practice or as an evolution. But
let's start here now with the with the
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C X gap. Let's let's go into an
organization that whether they're
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implementing something like customer
gauge or whatever else a C X initiative
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looks like. Talk about well, first, I
guess Let's start with in my mind there
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arranged, depending on. You know, if
you are an H and R block or an
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eventbrite, I'm sure a C X initiative
looks a lot different than if you are a
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probably even a customer gauge or a
bomb bomb. And so maybe maybe start by
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defining, like customer experience,
initiative or project or whatever and
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talk about kind of the Ranger scope
there. And maybe, um, some of the
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pitfalls to avoid when you start with a
new one. Julius do observations. So let
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me expand on that. We talked to a good
amount of prospects, as you can imagine,
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and we we talked a good amount of
customers. But I think on the prospects
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side, the really interesting thing,
especially from the marketing
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standpoint. And it's actually a
challenge, which I love are my team
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loves, but no program is the same. So
every company we talked to nobody is
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doing it the same way. And I think
that's what's really interesting about
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the experience marketplaces, that
there's so many variations of, of what
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people think to be best practice and
how they're actually implementing their
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system. And it's not even the same
across industries like or in industry.
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Even like, for example, saas companies
doing a bunch of different ways I t
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services. Doing a bunch of different
ways is that really is a good Cabinet.
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Ethan is basically Ken, very like an H
and R Block will do it very differently
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than a shell or a and hazard Bush, For
example, Anheuser Busch is using our
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cat experienced software to measure
their distribution channel or, as H and
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R Block is using it in almost A B B B B
D C context, where they're measuring
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the franchise E at the BBB level at
their sentiment with the franchise. Um,
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but they're also measuring at the BBC
level for their end user customers. So
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it really does run the gamut of things,
and it is interesting, and they're all
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structured differently. Department's
own it in different organs, for example,
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marketing sometimes owns it, or there
is a C S customer success team that
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owns it, or there is a customer
experience team that owns it. I've seen
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finance on. I've seen operations on it
So that's it's tough from a marketing
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standpoint, because, like, I can't just
say all right, this is our persona.
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We're going after operations Boom done
like that, that is, and I don't want to
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say, because again, to your point is
nothing's easy anymore. But it's an
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easier marketing tactic is to to line
up a persona. But, yeah, it really is
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different for every orig. But at the
core of it, the companies that we work
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with that do extremely well are the
ones that understand it's about action.
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It's not just measuring it. It's not
just saying, Hey, this is a great score.
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The gap is when you lead with that
score to the sea level and don't really
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back it up with any discernible metrics
like, for example, revenue or return on
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investment or up sell cross sell. Those
are the people that we've done research
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with Mitt as well. Um, that literally
shows if you don't focus on return on
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investment or Upsell and cross sell and
referrals built into your experience
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program, not only will you struggle to
maintain internal buying from the sea
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level, but your program is not going to
grow. I might even die, and it's a
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pretty much I don't want to be to doom
and gloom here. But it's there's a good
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chance that will die if you don't focus
on those things. And so what do you
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think? Practitioners get wrong in that
today when you say it and it seems so
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common sensical. Anyone operating
inside an organization that wants to
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continue to operate, or even better,
get more resources. Whether that's more
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budget or more team members or whatever
the case may be, everyone should
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obviously be trying to map themselves
to revenue. Just to hear you say it is
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like Yeah, of course. But I also know
the reality that a sometimes it's not
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easy to do and be. Sometimes the
culture doesn't demand it or sometimes
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maybe even support it. So, you know,
for for a practitioner who was involved
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either with a C X title or not, I mean,
you also you already addressed the
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question I had, which is where you
normally no, it's fine. We're normally
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you know, where you normally plug into
an organization. It really is anywhere,
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because again, this is transcendent. C
X is transcendent of anyone. Team or
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department as we as most of our
businesses are structured today, and
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I'm glad that that we're raising up
this conversation. I can, you know, get
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200 episodes of this show and continue
to grow the audience. And and they're
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still like we're just barely scratching
the surface. But what do you normally
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see? Maybe from a practitioners point
of view, no matter whether they're
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doing a small scale or a large scale
project, what are some tips there in
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terms of building that trust?
Generating that buy in may be proving
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some of that RL y and like consistently
managing up slash selling up in a way
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that is not too cumbersome. Obviously,
cultures are different, so I'm asking a
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really hard question for uniform. But
any any tips you have around this would
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be awesome.
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There's a lot. Um, so let me just start
with the most obvious one. Uh,
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especially on the experience side. We
just did a podcast on this internally
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today, actually. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
lead with it, but
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having a survey that's too long. So if
you are asking a customer to fill out a
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five page survey with C set and 100
questions like you're trying to make
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the experience better. But in fact
you're actually probably producing
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something that's even worse than your
intended results of the survey, which
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is a terrible experience to fill out
that thing. That's a short one, right?
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So let's just everybody knows that we
hate long service. Move on. Don't don't
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send a five pitch service. It's just
not something you should do. Number two
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is not focusing on action. So again,
back to that point of you're not
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running data for analysis. You're
running data to address customer issues,
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customer problems and integrate those
and better your business as a result.
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So I think we're a lot of those
practitioners go wrong is they get this
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data. They run a bunch of like,
statistical analysis, and they try to
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feed up. This is what they're saying
and before, like by the time you do
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that to the sea level, it's probably
like a week later. Still, you gotta you
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gotta take the feedback act in real
time, fall up with your customers, do
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everything you can to resolve their
issues or asking for referrals if their
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promoters, but then report back to the
sea level and say, Hey, this is what we
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did as a result of the feedback and
this is kind of what we gained out of
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it. So if you have a referral program,
you can actually tie that revenue
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directly to your experience program
again asking for referral, tying it to
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the revenue in your system, keeping
that tally of we generated $100,000
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from referral business from this
experience program. So it's coming back
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to that disconnect, and I keep coming
back that Ethan and where it's
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literally if you're having the right
conversations at the C level, you
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should be saying we generated $100,000
of revenue from referrals this quarter
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from this experience program. And by
the way, our MPs went from a 50 to 65.
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That's the order. You should have that
discussion, and it's not the other way
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around. It's not saying we have a great
nine p s courts. Not seeing our health
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score is 50. I mean, the CEO is gonna
be like, all right, great. What's the
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health score and what do I care? So I
think focusing on the right thing is
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really, If I could do it at a high
level, focus on the right things and
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honestly, the other the final piece of
maybe and on just on this piece is, uh,
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not distributing the data widely enough.
So, for example, we talked about
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customer success and the think about CS,
and I think they've done a ton to
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further the space, for sure. And I
don't I really insensitive about this.
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I don't want to knock them in any way
because I think they're doing a great
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job and making companies focus on the
right things. But just fundamentally,
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at a departmental level, If you're
relying on the customer success
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department to run your experience
program, you're going to create a silo
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with that data. So again, if I was a
practitioner, I would try to make that
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data as widely available as possible.
But make it relevant. That's that's
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another really big miss by these guys,
is that they? I just think that kick
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out the score, and that's all people
care about. No, make it relevant. So
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look, if you're a sales rep, you want
to give that sales are up a dashboard
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that tracks their top 15 accounts. Give
them feedback specifically on each one
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of those accounts. Tell them what they
should do for follow up actions. Be
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prescriptive. That's really hard to do
for a lot of organizations, but if you
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get there, it's generally a very, very
good thing for the bottom line. Again.
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You want to create that great
experience, but you also want to tie it
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to business outcomes. And that's hard
for a lot of companies throughout their
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head around providing that relevant
data at the right spot in the
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organization. Yeah, so many challenges
in there. The first is getting the data
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coordinated, which is obviously
something that you've built an entire
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business around doing, which I'm sure
you have competitors in this space as
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well, which speaks to the challenge of
that. And I'm sure for people who are
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listening, especially depending on the
maturity of your company, the maturity
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of your data culture, um, appropriate
levels of data literacy in these
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various seats in the organization.
Assuming most of that's put together, I
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don't think a lot of what you're saying
would be crazy heavy lift. But for the
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rest of us that are somewhere short and
some of those capacities. You know, my
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head is just spinning, thinking about
trying to map revenue to some of the
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things that we're doing. And it's
obviously very challenging what are
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from again, the gap around. Maybe what
practitioners want, right? Let's go
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back to a customer centric culture,
right? That's something. That's
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something maybe you might hear out of
the C suite. And we have a customer
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centric culture were very customer
centric where we want to be more
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customer centric. I think on the front
lines is where it really obviously
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comes to life because that's where the
most contact is. So, um, have you
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quantified in any way like or seen a
project that's around a customer
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centric culture and being able to
report that up in an effective manner
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kind of along the lines of what you
already shared with us? Definitely. So,
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uh, this kind of really goes after the
culture peace, honestly, and that's
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that's really, um, I would add this to
your previous question. Actually, one
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of the biggest challenges is like
getting the right culture in place to
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make this a success, and I think,
listen to your podcast a lot of people
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talk about this, Um and it's it's true
because it is a hard thing to do. And
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it takes a very hate to say, the word
but politically savvy champion of the
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program to operate throughout the
departments. Because, honestly, what
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you're doing is you're providing
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direct feedback that may put these
frontline people in trouble, right?
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Like a customer had an issue and they
are not happy. And it's tied directly
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to that front line person. What's their
incentive to buy into this program if
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they know that could potentially get
them in trouble or whatever it is right?
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So you really have to create that that
safe environment or that the culture of
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continuous feedback loops with that
customer. In order for that to be
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really successful, because the last
thing you want to do is roll this out
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and then have again that front line
just really despise the program, not
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00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:34.700
buy in. So it takes a very courageous
champion politically savvy, that can
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operate throughout the departments. But
it takes training, and it takes empathy
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at the champion level at the C level at
the front line level. I think it really
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comes down to putting the things in
place that they need to be successful.
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So a lot of our customers have great
stories around this,
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but one of them is really one of my
actually. His name is Carrie. Uh, and
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he is a previous customer. So we
actually signed them up as a customer,
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and he ended up coming to customer.
Engage. And he's now a VP of our
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program and education. Uh, yeah, it was
great. It's a cool story, right? But he
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set up a program where there was a
monthly contests. There was recognition
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there was incentive to go above and
beyond and the way he did that, as he
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systematized the process and trained
entire frontline staff, he went on site.
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It was the first person there to talk
about. This is what we're doing. This
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is why it's important. This is why you
should care. He built an amazing
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training program, and he comes from a
great background of training of, uh, he
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did a lot of the training for container
store. He did a lot of the training for
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Gamestop, so it really it takes a
talented trainer to make sure that
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everybody understands why we're doing
this, you need a launch event where
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everybody gets behind it, maybe even an
internal brand. We've seen that work
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really well with our customers to It's
like customer care initiative or like,
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uh, we have a love your accounts.
That's our kind of internal brand for
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our program that goes a long way and
having that experience tied to, like
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maybe your core values or something
like that. It's super powerful to
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really embed that in your organization,
because then everybody buys in. They
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know why they're doing it. That's not a
question anymore and they want to do it.
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They want to go above and beyond. You
can't You just can't force people to do
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anything. You have to make them believe
if you have to get that emotional tie
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to the program in order for them to
really give them, give it their best.
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And I think that's that's where we see
the difference between a good program
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and a great program man and that I can
absolutely see it. It reminds me of a
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conversation we had on this show with
Chris Wallace. He works at a
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consultancy called Interview Group I N
N E. R. Interview. And he helps bridge
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that gap and create internal campaigns
and training and education and like the
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sustained campaign with multiple touch
points. And, of course, we call that
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one marketing to your employees, not
just your customers, because that's
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what it takes. It's so interesting in
hearing you deliver that response. I
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just kept thinking, you know, Okay,
this is why you need a dedicated
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resource, whether it's an individual or
a team, because that's not a part time
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00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:23.730
job, right? Like that's not a oh, and
I'll also do that. It's like 15% of my
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job, because whatever. I mean, I can I
can see these characteristics. I I
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really like the way you ran down some
of the characteristics you're looking
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for. You definitely need to be able to
move in a savvy way, from executive
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meetings to CS meetings to sales
meeting, marketing meetings to create a
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culture where you can be honest with
one another, you use the word safe. I
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think that's a really good word that I
think everyone can understand. It's
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safe to be who you are to try your
hardest and to fail at it and not feel
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threatened by it because we're all in
this together. You're 100% right about
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this idea of creating the cognitive and
emotional buy in of why Why does this
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matter? Why me? Like a sense of purpose?
Because we all know that sense of
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purpose is what helps us persevere
through hard, difficult or confusing
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things. And I know all of us, you know,
whether you're listening and you're in
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a SAS company or no matter what
business you're in, um, I'm certain
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that everyone listening can think of a
program that was launched at one of the
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companies that they were at at some
point in their career, where it was
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like it was either D o a. Because, you
know, not again, right? This is the
395
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fourth one we're trying here the past,
you know, nine months, we have a new
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00:27:35.840 --> 00:27:40.630
consultant. So we have a new thing or
something, or, you know it's launched
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and it's just one person's mission, and
no one ever buys in because that whole
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step was missed. It's just really,
really painful. Yeah, reminds me of one
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of our customers that, um his name is
Luis and he works for Anheuser Busch
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00:27:54.060 --> 00:27:58.800
shoutout to Louise. But he did a small
POC with us, right? So he needed to
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prove the concept. And so we did a
small measurement of one of the
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countries. And then what he did is he
took that POC data and went from
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country to country to country to
country. I mean, I think he hit up like
404
00:28:09.970 --> 00:28:14.530
30 countries. He did a world tour,
presenting this data to not only see
405
00:28:14.530 --> 00:28:17.090
levels but like the front line people
and say, Wow, isn't this interesting?
406
00:28:17.090 --> 00:28:19.660
Wow, isn't this interesting? Look at
this amazing data when you like the
407
00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:23.790
same data what I mean by like,
politically savvy, but also like a
408
00:28:23.790 --> 00:28:26.570
champion like somebody that's going to
take this on their back. And you're
409
00:28:26.570 --> 00:28:30.930
right when you say it's not a part time
thing, that he was 100% dedicated to
410
00:28:30.930 --> 00:28:35.390
make this thing a reality. And he and
that was a global program. Anheuser
411
00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:40.770
Busch is obviously this massive company,
right? He got bought by in from every
412
00:28:40.770 --> 00:28:45.330
single country division at Anheuser
Busch and the corporate level by doing
413
00:28:45.330 --> 00:28:49.290
this kind of world tour. And this was
his job for like, two years and we
414
00:28:49.290 --> 00:28:52.770
rolled out globally with these guys.
But it was also that wouldn't have
415
00:28:52.770 --> 00:28:58.100
happened without Louise like that. That
was a special guy that spent a ton of
416
00:28:58.100 --> 00:29:02.760
time because he believed in what this
brought to the organization. And if
417
00:29:02.760 --> 00:29:06.320
you're passionate about something like
that, I mean, people will buy into it.
418
00:29:06.330 --> 00:29:10.700
You just need to make the rounds. And
again, it's not your point of like, I
419
00:29:10.700 --> 00:29:13.420
want to do this. So this is what we're
gonna be doing that doesn't work like
420
00:29:13.420 --> 00:29:16.430
you gotta You have to make the rounds,
You have to shake hands, you have to
421
00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:20.390
kiss babies. And it's it's a political
maneuver and and a lot of companies
422
00:29:20.390 --> 00:29:24.560
just don't have that champion. And
that's one again. One of the million
423
00:29:24.560 --> 00:29:28.410
ways these things can fail if you don't
have that passionate champion, and this
424
00:29:28.410 --> 00:29:31.490
can be really tough. Yeah, I love your
call to make the rounds. I mean, that's
425
00:29:31.490 --> 00:29:35.550
where you that's where you figure out.
I mean, you probably have some sense of
426
00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:40.690
generically speaking personas. You know,
the various stakeholders involved in
427
00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:44.360
what their motivations are and what's
going to light them up and what their
428
00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:47.620
participation needs to look like you
might have three of those. You might
429
00:29:47.620 --> 00:29:51.740
have 30 of those, but making the rounds
is how you really dial that. It's just
430
00:29:51.740 --> 00:29:54.360
like talking to your customers, no
matter what role you're in the
431
00:29:54.360 --> 00:29:58.560
organization like, that's how you close
the gap between what you think what you
432
00:29:58.560 --> 00:30:01.800
expect or what you're seeing in a
spreadsheet and what is actually
433
00:30:01.800 --> 00:30:04.970
happening is like that. You can't I
love the call to make the rounds. I
434
00:30:04.970 --> 00:30:10.250
think it's exactly right. Um, we don't
have time to go all in on this thing.
435
00:30:10.250 --> 00:30:13.240
But you shared with me in advance of
the call, and you already mentioned it
436
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:18.030
once. This N p s and c x benchmarks
report that you did with some folks at
437
00:30:18.030 --> 00:30:22.950
M i t. You did it at customer gauge,
and it draws this line between you and
438
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.480
because I just think this is really
important. You draw this line between
439
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.860
traditional NPS and traditional NPS
activities, which you describe as
440
00:30:30.940 --> 00:30:35.150
measure and act right, Like we got the
score. We got this feedback, and now
441
00:30:35.150 --> 00:30:37.860
we're going to do something about it,
too. And this has been a theme in the
442
00:30:37.860 --> 00:30:41.720
conversation all along. So this is
going to be kind of reinforcing some of
443
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:45.580
the points you've already made. Perhaps.
And, uh, you know, in a little closed
444
00:30:45.590 --> 00:30:52.130
piece here, So versus traditional NPSU
set up monetized nps as an approach and
445
00:30:52.130 --> 00:30:56.980
it's a set of activities, and that is
measure, act and and grow. Can you just
446
00:30:56.980 --> 00:31:03.420
give a good pass on that To really
reinforce maybe the shortcomings of NPS
447
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:09.540
as it's been done in a traditional way?
Yeah. So again, it's tough because we
448
00:31:09.540 --> 00:31:14.050
love NPS. We If you look at that, yeah,
you're talking about using it more and
449
00:31:14.050 --> 00:31:17.090
getting more value out of it. Yeah, I
know, I know. But it's it's so
450
00:31:17.090 --> 00:31:20.170
difficult from the marketing standpoint
to say, you know what? MPs isn't enough
451
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:25.190
anymore because we were So I mean, my
CEO is good friends with Fred, right?
452
00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:31.680
Tell the founder of MPs, um, but what
we found is when companies just rely on
453
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:36.960
MPs, it's again tough to make that
connection to that revenue line and and
454
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.660
really focus on the things that are
important. If you focus on the score
455
00:31:40.340 --> 00:31:43.960
and a lot of companies do, and a lot of
companies do just focus on the score.
456
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:48.860
What ends up happening is you're just
measuring and the next logical question
457
00:31:48.860 --> 00:31:52.060
from a C level. Executives. Great. Our
score went up. What does that mean,
458
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:59.140
Right? And so how do you answer that?
If you don't really know what that
459
00:31:59.140 --> 00:32:05.270
means? I think it might be a leading
indicator of retention. Sure, that's
460
00:32:05.270 --> 00:32:08.620
the talk track, right? That's what Fred
laid out in the ultimate question. The
461
00:32:08.620 --> 00:32:14.690
one number grow. But our data just
shows that there's so much discrepancy
462
00:32:14.690 --> 00:32:20.010
in the way these programs are run, that
it's not always the case. So what we've
463
00:32:20.010 --> 00:32:25.490
done is we've suggested that there is a
new way to do it, which is taking NPS
464
00:32:25.490 --> 00:32:30.470
and tying it to revenue. What God means
If you get a score for an account, how
465
00:32:30.470 --> 00:32:34.150
much revenue does that bring in but
also making sure your program is
466
00:32:34.150 --> 00:32:37.390
embedded with other activities, like
again. That example I used about the
467
00:32:37.390 --> 00:32:40.650
salesperson get them the information
they need to Upsell and cross sell
468
00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:44.770
tighter experience program as a result
of their feedback from that account, or,
469
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.280
if you have a promoter come in, make
sure that they get the referral offer
470
00:32:49.280 --> 00:32:51.890
right? Give them an entire in your
referral program of the experience
471
00:32:51.890 --> 00:32:57.150
program. These up sell, cross sell
referrals. These three small things go
472
00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:00.850
a very long way to tie in ry or a
revenue number to your experience
473
00:33:00.850 --> 00:33:04.330
program again. If you do that, that's
what we considered monetizing that
474
00:33:04.330 --> 00:33:08.010
promoter. Our new thing that we're
we've really and we've been evolving
475
00:33:08.010 --> 00:33:12.370
over the last five years since I've
been here started with MPs. So then
476
00:33:12.370 --> 00:33:14.750
went to monetize that promoter with
that report. And now we're on account
477
00:33:14.750 --> 00:33:17.990
experience, which it's like it's
monetizing that promoter. We still tie
478
00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:20.700
everything the revenue, but it's like
you need those additional data points,
479
00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:24.410
especially as companies evolve the
transform digitally. You need some
480
00:33:24.410 --> 00:33:27.780
other signals and again to our original
point. Sometimes absence of signal is
481
00:33:27.780 --> 00:33:31.400
more important than these signals
coming in, so it's kind of evolved
482
00:33:31.410 --> 00:33:34.300
since then, but the real the core of it
is still there, which is monetizing
483
00:33:34.300 --> 00:33:38.260
that promoter. But that's really just
making a call for these organizations
484
00:33:38.260 --> 00:33:43.760
to buying the MPs but tied to revenue
tied to our Oh, I tell you to up sell
485
00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:48.430
cross sell referral activity and report
on that to your seal because that's our
486
00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:52.070
data with M. I. T. Shows that if you do
that you grow faster than your
487
00:33:52.080 --> 00:33:55.280
competition. You grow faster than
everybody else. That's doing that type
488
00:33:55.280 --> 00:33:59.710
of just basic on PS activity. If you
tied to growth activities like upset
489
00:33:59.710 --> 00:34:03.370
across the referrals, it's going to
result in a faster growth trajectory
490
00:34:03.370 --> 00:34:07.110
for your company. Fantastic. And for
those who are listening, that is a good
491
00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:12.810
passage to click that 62nd or 32nd back
button, take another pass. That is what
492
00:34:12.810 --> 00:34:17.880
we need to be doing with NPS if we want
to. A sustained and continue to get
493
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:22.770
resources for our programs is tying it
to revenue, making it easy to to report
494
00:34:22.770 --> 00:34:26.300
up and showing people the numbers they
actually care about. You know, it's
495
00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:28.560
hard to get, you know, if you don't
know anything about, it's hard to get
496
00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:32.170
excited about a health score or NPS
score and you know, and then you got to
497
00:34:32.170 --> 00:34:35.840
anchor to, like, where was it last week
or last month or last year, And how did
498
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:40.360
we move it? This is where it's at
because everyone understands revenue.
499
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:44.130
You are a self described customer
experience advocate for your headline
500
00:34:44.130 --> 00:34:48.920
on LinkedIn In a moment of advocacy
here, where do we need to go with C X
501
00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:53.139
overall, like, where do you feel like
we are? What are you so excited about
502
00:34:53.139 --> 00:34:56.860
within C X and and maybe where are we
going with it At kind of a high level?
503
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:02.280
Yeah, I think, um, I'm excited. I think
this is one of the most exciting times
504
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:06.950
of being sex right now, So just seeing
it grow over the last five years even
505
00:35:06.950 --> 00:35:12.430
is, is astonishing. So I've been in the
space for about I think it's eight or
506
00:35:12.430 --> 00:35:17.670
nine years now. I ran basically the C X
program for C. I T. Bank back in the
507
00:35:17.670 --> 00:35:22.670
day, and I think what's happening right
now is customer success is having kind
508
00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:27.220
of a big moment right now where I think
everybody is realizing, especially in
509
00:35:27.220 --> 00:35:32.100
SAS, that with the whole global
situation, people need to focus on
510
00:35:32.100 --> 00:35:35.250
their customer bases. They need to
focus on their campuses. So that's more
511
00:35:35.250 --> 00:35:39.410
important than ever for a lot of
companies, because a lot of acquisition
512
00:35:39.410 --> 00:35:43.300
pipeline's dried up during covid and
and it's not the worst thing that
513
00:35:43.300 --> 00:35:47.560
happened during that period, obviously,
but it is a result of what happened. So
514
00:35:47.560 --> 00:35:50.070
a lot of people looked inward and made
sure that they could grow their
515
00:35:50.070 --> 00:35:54.850
compasses to the best of their ability.
So I think it's going to take a
516
00:35:55.640 --> 00:35:58.970
definitely a more important seat moving
forward. I almost think that
517
00:36:00.230 --> 00:36:02.660
it's going to be a leading
differentiator for a lot of companies
518
00:36:02.660 --> 00:36:08.540
like I. I think that the days of growth
at all costs and spending $200,000 on
519
00:36:09.030 --> 00:36:12.580
Facebook ads to acquire new business I
think those days are gone. I think you
520
00:36:12.580 --> 00:36:16.250
know, we might have some lingering
effect there, but you can see the
521
00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:21.590
baseball boycott going on. I think
experience and customer experience will
522
00:36:21.590 --> 00:36:25.060
be the new growth lover for
organizations. They're going to realize
523
00:36:25.060 --> 00:36:30.560
that if they spend the amount of effort
and experiences and creating
524
00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:34.780
experiences that they're doing
acquiring new customers, it will be
525
00:36:34.780 --> 00:36:39.050
significant growth at a much, much
cheaper cost. And I just don't think
526
00:36:39.060 --> 00:36:41.710
some of these larger companies are
there yet. They don't really realize
527
00:36:41.710 --> 00:36:46.410
that they have a lot of what they
already need built into the experiences
528
00:36:46.410 --> 00:36:51.410
or their customer base. Um, so I think,
you know, next 5, 10 years, I fully
529
00:36:51.410 --> 00:36:55.750
expect that companies are going to best
heavily in this thing. I I fully expect
530
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:00.510
that it will be more than a part time
role. I think every company should have
531
00:37:00.510 --> 00:37:06.660
a full time position dedicated to the
account or customer experience. I think
532
00:37:07.130 --> 00:37:11.830
customer success not to keep rallying
on them, But I think that they will
533
00:37:11.830 --> 00:37:17.630
need to figure out a way to go wider.
The organization. I think that's going
534
00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:20.400
to be something that can figure out. I
think there's a lot of talented people
535
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:24.390
in C. S. I just think that there's a
trend that I've been seeing in SAS,
536
00:37:24.390 --> 00:37:28.620
where people are actually rebelling
against the whole customer success role
537
00:37:28.630 --> 00:37:31.210
in general, and they're going back to
relationship managers. I've seen that a
538
00:37:31.210 --> 00:37:36.220
couple companies locally in Boston, Um,
so I think continuing to prove the
539
00:37:36.220 --> 00:37:42.350
value on CS is important, but again, if
you tie it to that revenue, if you tied
540
00:37:42.350 --> 00:37:46.680
to the ry, um, there will be a bright
future for everybody involved. I love
541
00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:49.980
it. It's just it's when I think about
it, and that was awesome. Thank you for
542
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:54.720
sharing that. When I think about that,
I just think it's just not only
543
00:37:54.730 --> 00:38:00.440
obviously better for customers when you
approach business that way, it's also
544
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:04.060
so much more satisfying. For the
employees that were just doing, it just
545
00:38:04.060 --> 00:38:07.230
seems like a move towards doing the
right things the right way and really
546
00:38:07.230 --> 00:38:12.370
focusing on what we want, which is
satisfied. Customers. No. One, No one I
547
00:38:12.370 --> 00:38:16.650
know that serious about their career is
interested in being in a turn and burn
548
00:38:16.650 --> 00:38:20.370
environment. And so I like that this is
a mainstream conversation because we're
549
00:38:20.370 --> 00:38:23.600
all going to get all going to get
better for it. This has been awesome.
550
00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:26.690
If you're listening to this
conversation with Ian Luck and you've
551
00:38:26.690 --> 00:38:30.220
enjoyed it, I've got a couple more that
I know you will like. I'm thinking of
552
00:38:30.230 --> 00:38:34.200
Episode 36 with Sarah Thomas. She is
the co founder and executive director
553
00:38:34.200 --> 00:38:38.070
of the Wharton Interactive at, of
course, at the Wharton School at
554
00:38:38.070 --> 00:38:43.110
University of Pennsylvania. And that
one I thought of that one for this
555
00:38:43.110 --> 00:38:47.310
conversation because their definition
of customer centric city and the
556
00:38:47.310 --> 00:38:50.870
customer centric city playbook, she
wrote with one of her colleagues really
557
00:38:50.870 --> 00:38:54.910
focuses on lifetime value. So, you know,
we're typically we think of customer
558
00:38:54.910 --> 00:38:59.140
centric. City is this kind of soft
sided thing. She's like It is lifetime
559
00:38:59.140 --> 00:39:03.170
value. Those two were inseparable. And
so that's Sarah Towns on Episode 36 the
560
00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:07.860
financial side of C X. Which customers
should you invest in? And then, more
561
00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:13.480
recently, Ben Smith? Well, he's a C, X
and C s designer and strategist, and we
562
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:17.430
call that one restoring the human
factor to fulfill the big C extreme. He
563
00:39:17.430 --> 00:39:21.810
also sees a C X gap, and we do talk
kind of like nuts and bolts. What does
564
00:39:21.810 --> 00:39:26.990
this look like inside an organization?
That's been Smith well on Episode 66 I
565
00:39:26.990 --> 00:39:30.350
already mentioned Chris Wallace
marketing to your employees, not just
566
00:39:30.350 --> 00:39:35.760
your customers. That one was Episode 73.
So this is an ongoing conversation.
567
00:39:35.770 --> 00:39:39.610
Everyone is unique and nuanced. Thank
you so much for sharing your expertise
568
00:39:39.610 --> 00:39:43.460
here, Ian. Before I let you go, though,
I've got a couple opportunities. Slash
569
00:39:43.470 --> 00:39:47.750
your personal curiosities and
opportunities for you to kind of give
570
00:39:47.750 --> 00:39:51.620
shouts out to people and companies that
you respect. So first thank you
571
00:39:51.620 --> 00:39:55.410
mentioned someone has had a positive
impact on your life or your career and
572
00:39:55.410 --> 00:39:59.240
then give a shout out to a brand or a
company that you really respect for the
573
00:39:59.240 --> 00:40:04.480
experience that they deliver for you as
a customer. Yeah. So the person I would
574
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:08.970
say is my mentor, Yanni. Um, he's
actually my uncle, but he is a I
575
00:40:08.970 --> 00:40:12.220
described as an old school O g. He
worked for Sun Microsystems. He was the
576
00:40:12.220 --> 00:40:17.520
VP of marketing and sales globally
there in their heyday. So he's been a
577
00:40:18.010 --> 00:40:21.290
just amazing resource for me from a
marketing standpoint, but also, he was
578
00:40:21.290 --> 00:40:25.540
a big C X guy before it was big. I mean,
they he really cared about the
579
00:40:25.540 --> 00:40:29.130
experience he was creating from the
both marketing and sales side. So again
580
00:40:29.130 --> 00:40:32.530
shouting out Johnny, I've done this
before, but I think, uh, I cannot
581
00:40:32.910 --> 00:40:35.990
repair that guy enough for what he's
done for me. So again, mentorship is
582
00:40:36.410 --> 00:40:39.630
super super important in this world. I
definitely recommend everybody have
583
00:40:39.630 --> 00:40:44.160
somebody like that in their life, and
the brand said, I think I mean, I could
584
00:40:44.160 --> 00:40:47.620
go for the obvious ones like Apple,
Amazon, all that crap. But I think one
585
00:40:47.620 --> 00:40:52.250
of the more interesting ones that I've
come across in the last, you know, year.
586
00:40:52.250 --> 00:40:57.760
So is this company called Sweetwater?
Um, they are a musician, kind of their
587
00:40:57.770 --> 00:41:02.430
music manufacturer. They e commerce,
they sell guitars, all that stuff. I'm
588
00:41:02.430 --> 00:41:05.830
a musician, but they take a really
interesting approach. Most other
589
00:41:05.830 --> 00:41:09.800
companies out there like Guitar Center.
They don't have a dedicated
590
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.660
relationship manager. They basically
are, like here. This is what we got.
591
00:41:12.670 --> 00:41:16.200
Take it. Sweetwater is really
interesting where they have this
592
00:41:16.210 --> 00:41:19.970
relationship manager that is reaching
out to me. And it's not like corporate
593
00:41:19.970 --> 00:41:23.840
brand. It's like this random guy. His
name is Preston and he'll hit me up.
594
00:41:23.850 --> 00:41:27.450
And when, like, based off of my past
purchase history, he knows I like
595
00:41:27.450 --> 00:41:30.270
Fender. He knows I like Gibson stuff,
and he'll basically said, Hey, do you
596
00:41:30.270 --> 00:41:33.270
see this new thing that released? Check
it out here. I was thinking of you, You
597
00:41:33.270 --> 00:41:37.070
know about this, blah, blah, blah. It
was really personalized. It must be
598
00:41:37.080 --> 00:41:39.970
really hard to do at scale, so I'm
guessing they have a good amount of
599
00:41:39.970 --> 00:41:44.440
relationship managers on on staff, and
they have a low amount of accounts, But
600
00:41:44.810 --> 00:41:49.250
not only that, the product and like the
experience they create Every time I get
601
00:41:49.250 --> 00:41:53.770
a package from them, they send a little
bag of candy. So my kids like you can
602
00:41:53.770 --> 00:41:58.830
imagine, right like they want to order
more stuff. Yeah, exactly. So they're
603
00:41:58.830 --> 00:42:01.020
literally hitting me up like, when are
we getting something else? And I
604
00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:05.490
obviously have to run it by the wife.
But, um, it's so cool because, like
605
00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:08.190
everybody gets excited about it. I'm
excited because I get my music gear.
606
00:42:08.190 --> 00:42:12.250
The kids are excited because the candy
and it's just it's such an amazing
607
00:42:12.250 --> 00:42:16.260
thing they've created, and it probably
I think they know it, but they maybe
608
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:21.640
don't know the level of experience that
created for me and my family, but it's
609
00:42:21.640 --> 00:42:25.200
a stupid small thing. And but I could
go on a rant about everything else they
610
00:42:25.200 --> 00:42:29.160
do. But it's they just do such a great
job about being personalized, inhuman
611
00:42:29.160 --> 00:42:35.060
and like a kind of gigantic e commerce
type uh, landscape. It's so awesome.
612
00:42:35.060 --> 00:42:39.870
It's such a great example of human to
human at scale. It reminds me I don't
613
00:42:39.870 --> 00:42:43.640
know if you've read. Matt Squeezes
context, marketing, Revolution or seen
614
00:42:43.640 --> 00:42:47.630
him speaker present. But he he loves to
share a similar story about the
615
00:42:47.630 --> 00:42:52.390
gearheads at backcountry dot com, which
is similar, except it's outdoor gear.
616
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:56.730
But it's just it's a really it's a real
person. I think his guy is Wesley, and
617
00:42:56.730 --> 00:43:00.150
somehow they found a way across
thousands and thousands and thousands
618
00:43:00.150 --> 00:43:04.380
of customers to still create this human
to human experience. That will
619
00:43:05.100 --> 00:43:08.330
certainly, And I'm sure they're
measuring it as you would advocate.
620
00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:14.580
Certainly be able to look at you, Ian
Luck as someone who is engaged with
621
00:43:14.580 --> 00:43:19.280
this program and know that your average
spend with them is over twice as long a
622
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:24.640
period and some X factor, uh, some
multiple of revenue. And there's no
623
00:43:24.640 --> 00:43:29.180
question that it pays off, and I love
that they take care to do it, not just
624
00:43:29.180 --> 00:43:33.340
with smart triggered stuff like an
Amazon would do, but with a real human
625
00:43:33.340 --> 00:43:37.880
being, which just brings it all to life.
It's crazy. I mean, I used to shop at
626
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.420
Guitar Center. I used to shop at all of
these random places, whoever has the
627
00:43:40.420 --> 00:43:44.060
best price. Right now, I know I'm
getting the best price because this guy
628
00:43:44.070 --> 00:43:47.700
also gives me special deals, but I
literally sent him an email. Today is
629
00:43:47.700 --> 00:43:50.640
like, Hey, what do you think about this?
Blah, blah, blah? I mean, it's like I
630
00:43:50.640 --> 00:43:53.360
hate to say, because it's kind of like
pathetic, but he's my buddy. He's like
631
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:57.210
my gear buddy, where he I literally run
ideas by him. He's a trusted advisor,
632
00:43:57.210 --> 00:44:00.480
and that's, I think, exactly what they
set out to do. But it's so effective
633
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:06.190
because is personalized. It's specific
to me. He gets like, What I what I need
634
00:44:06.190 --> 00:44:11.910
in my arsenal of crap musically. So
it's really cool, Man. I think it's one
635
00:44:11.910 --> 00:44:14.750
of the better brands have run across
that I've I've done it successfully.
636
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:18.970
Super powerful, great example. I've
enjoyed this conversation very much.
637
00:44:18.970 --> 00:44:22.680
Ian. I know listeners will, too, if
someone wants to follow up with you or
638
00:44:22.680 --> 00:44:25.700
they want to connect with customer
gauge where some places you would send
639
00:44:25.700 --> 00:44:31.270
people who have listened to our
conversation this far. Yeah, of course.
640
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:35.370
Check me out on LinkedIn. I'm pretty
active on their usually, um, and then
641
00:44:35.370 --> 00:44:39.370
obviously customer gauge dot com, which
you can obviously check out. We have a
642
00:44:39.380 --> 00:44:42.880
ton of C X content. They're more so
than I think you guys could ever
643
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:47.790
consume. Uh, we have over, like, 20
books and a ton of blogs dating back 10
644
00:44:47.790 --> 00:44:51.200
years, and we have a whole academy. Now
that we're launching and relaunching
645
00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:56.260
with courses and certifications, it's
really cool. Um, so check that out. And
646
00:44:56.260 --> 00:44:58.890
obviously, if you're a marketer
listening, go to marketing strategy dot
647
00:44:58.890 --> 00:45:03.870
com for the latest marketing tips and
tricks. Awesome. If you are listening,
648
00:45:03.870 --> 00:45:07.620
you can always visit bomb bomb dot com
slash podcast. I'll round up these
649
00:45:07.620 --> 00:45:11.140
things. I'll drop links into the blog
post. You can see some of the video
650
00:45:11.140 --> 00:45:14.220
clips from the conversation, and, of
course, we have the fully embedded
651
00:45:14.220 --> 00:45:18.500
audio there. So if you want to connect
with the in, all those links will be up
652
00:45:18.510 --> 00:45:22.940
at bom bom dot com slash podcast. And
of course you can. Spelled exactly as
653
00:45:22.940 --> 00:45:26.600
it sounds, check them out on LinkedIn.
Thanks so much, Ian. They say. It's
654
00:45:26.630 --> 00:45:32.140
really a pleasure to be here. I am
always rewarded at the ends of these
655
00:45:32.150 --> 00:45:36.360
episodes. Sweetwater sounds like a
company that is truly innovating in the
656
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:40.710
space. I hope you enjoyed that and
everything else that Ian shared. So
657
00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:47.410
what did you think? Email me, Ethan. E
T h a n at bom bom dot com or reach out
658
00:45:47.410 --> 00:45:53.490
to me on LinkedIn. Ethan Butte. Last
name spelled B e u T e. I welcome your
659
00:45:53.490 --> 00:45:57.920
feedback on any of these episodes on
the C X series on B two B growth. I
660
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:02.620
want them to be useful for you. Helpful
for you. Interesting to you. Let me
661
00:46:02.620 --> 00:46:07.810
know what you think, Ethan at bom bom
dot com or Ethan Butte on LinkedIn.
662
00:46:07.890 --> 00:46:10.300
Thanks again for listening to be to be
Growth.
663
00:46:11.590 --> 00:46:11.790
Yeah.
664
00:46:12.790 --> 00:46:16.780
Is your buyer at BDP Marketer? If so,
you should think about sponsoring this
665
00:46:16.780 --> 00:46:21.730
podcast. BDB growth gets downloaded
over 130,000 times each month, and our
666
00:46:21.730 --> 00:46:25.550
listeners are marketing decision makers.
If it sounds interesting, send Logan
667
00:46:25.550 --> 00:46:28.420
and email Logan at sweet fish media dot
com