Transcript
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Yeah.
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All right. Welcome back to be to be
growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with Sweet
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Fish Media. Today we will be continuing
our deep dive into demand generation.
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And I'm very excited to have Carlos
Hidalgo joining us today. Carlos is the
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author of Driving Demand, which is
specifically designed for B two B
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marketing leaders assessing the
challenge of demand generation
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transformation and asking themselves Is
it really worth it? And that's a little
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bit about what we're going to talk
about today. So, Carlos, thank you so
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much for joining me. Hey, Thanks,
Leslie. Really appreciate it. Love what
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you guys are doing in this space. Great.
Well, I want to start off by saying
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that when I was starting my research
for conducting this deep dive, Really?
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There was only one specific book that I
could find that really addresses the
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benefits and challenges integrating a
demand jin strategy. And it was yours.
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And what I really enjoyed about this
book is that it contains a very
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specific roadmap for implementing the
change and, you know, that really needs
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to happen in a business for their
demand. Jin strategy to help sales and
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revenues start to take off. But before
we dive into all of that, Carlos, I
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really wanted to start off by asking,
you know, going back to the basics. And
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this is a question I've been asking
everyone I've talked to so far, So I
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wanted to give you an opportunity to
just share in your own words. How do
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you really define demand generation?
Yeah, I define demand generation as
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first and foremost. It's a customer
acquisition and a customer expansion
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strategy, and so many times I see
organizations just focus on customer
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acquisition. But when we realize that
90% of our customer lifetime value
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occurs after our first purchase, it
necessitates the fact that we include
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expansion. I also say that it's a
marketing and sales discipline, and
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some people do not involve sales in
that. And marketers for the 25 years
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I've been involved in this space get
increasingly frustrated of how do I get
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sales involved, or how can I get sales
to take my leads while you involve them
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in the development of strategy in the
first place? And that's going to really
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drive that collaboration and an
alignment that everybody is looking for.
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But further than that it makes sure
when we defined. Imagine that we're
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talking about aligning to the buyers at
every stage of their purchase path,
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using content and channels that they
prefer. And when I talk about the
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purchase path, I'm not talking about a
funnel or a waterfall, and I've said it
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a million times. I'll say it again.
I've never heard a buy or salmon in the
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sales accepted lead stage of my buying
process, and so we have to make sure
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that what we are putting out there is
contextually and relevant, a relevant
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way aligned to our buyers. And it's not
the strategies that we think it's what
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they need to hear at that right time.
What are their watering holes? Where do
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they gather the information to make an
informed decision? Yeah, and I want to
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talk a little bit about something that
you discussed in the first couple of
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chapters of your book here, and that is
the real issues with modern demand, Gen.
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And more specifically, you shared a few
reasons why marketing departments are
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kind of lacking and the ability to
measure quantifiable business impact.
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So do you mind just sharing a little
bit about that and a little bit about
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those issues. Yeah, I think one of the
reasons they're they're struggling
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still. I mean, that book is we were
talking about before we hit record. You
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know, the book is almost six years old,
which is hard to believe. But I think
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first and foremost is it's difficult.
We have a proliferation of technology
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and our data scattered all over that
technology. So to try to bring all of
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that together to define that
attribution makes it increasingly
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difficult for a marketer. That's number
one. Number two marketers were not have
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not been trained with the right skill
set to do quantitative analysis.
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And when we think about that, when we
think about, we're asking people who
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don't have this training to do
something they've never done before.
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There's a little bit of a fear factor.
There's a little bit of trepidation,
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and what I've seen many marketers do is
say, Well, I'm just gonna go grab the
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technology to get it done with no
strategy on how they're going to
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measure in the first place. And so we
get wrapped around the axle with is a
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multi touch. Distribution is the first
touches at last touch. Let's just get
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to a point where we can measure our
impact on pipeline and impact on
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revenue. Start there. And so I think we
also overcomplicated, and what I have
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seen in many organizations is multiple
tries or they just ignore it altogether.
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And so they shy away from. And I talked
to one CMO who said, I don't want to be
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tied to revenue that scares me to death.
But the reality is the business
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requires that we be tied to revenue we
need as marketers to be coin operated.
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Yeah, that's so true. I think that a
lot of people tend to overcomplicate a
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lot of this and it's it's not. It
doesn't have to be. And I like that
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idea. And I wanted to talk about
embracing change a little bit, and, you
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know, as marketers were constantly
dealing with change, the marketing
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world is exploding, and even I talked
to a few people even with the pandemic.
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It's changed so much in the last two
years alone, and we're dealing with
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this explosion of touchpoints channels,
new technologies, all of this, newness
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all the time and what type of change do
you feel like marketers need to really
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embrace in order to drive that demand?
And why are these changes necessary?
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Well, I think the changes are necessary
because their buyers are are driving it.
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You know, we when you think about the
millennial generation, we are now
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seeing the first generation of digital
natives involved in it be to be buying
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process and B two B decisions that
fundamentally changes things. So when
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we think about what kind of changes I
think first off just embracing the fact
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that our roles have changed. I remember
the day when I was told by my boss I
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was a necessary evil, not real
motivating. I also remember being told
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by sales that, hey, don't ever forget
where your customer and you guys are
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just the arson craft department. Also
not real motivating. So when we think
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about these digitally savvy,
sophisticated customers and buyers, we
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are serving well. We have to first and
foremost understand, and sales needs to
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understand. This probably more than
marketing is, sales is not as important
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in a deal as they were 15 years ago.
I'm not saying they're not important.
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They're not as important when we think
about what marketing's role is now I
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have to fill in the gap for a buyer who
is looking, or a customer who is
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looking for a solution in a digital
manner. Whatever percent that is C E B,
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which is now. Gardner talked. You know,
years ago, about 57% I've seen 70%. I
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mean, who the research to me is
irrelevant because you got a base that
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based on vertical marketers now the
change we have to embrace is we have to
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understand who are buyers are even in
an A B M context, what's important to
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them, the type of content they want to
consume, the channels by which they
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want to consume it. And we have to
create a continuity of dialogue across
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that entire purchase process.
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And then we have to enable sales to
continue that conversation. So the
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biggest thing we can do is understand
that the customer is our customer and
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that if we want that
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elusive seat at the table that
everybody talks about, it is our job as
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much as sales to create revenue through
our demand generation. Josh, what do
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you think is the most irritating thing
for me to be buyers right now, man.
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Logan, I love talking to you about this.
You know that the number one challenge
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right now is that many customer facing
teams in the B two B space right now
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are forcing their potential buyers, too,
by the way that they want to sell.
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Buyers don't want to buy that way right
now. They want to, by the way they want
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to buy. We need to enable those buyers.
We call this buyer enablement at sales
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reach. We need to enable those buyers
to make better decisions quicker in a
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comfortable environment that's more
personalized for them to move forward
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with that process. Dude, that's awesome.
I couldn't agree more. Since I've been
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using sales reach in my own sales
process, it's allowed me to really
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enable the buyer to move more quickly
in really two ways. One, they don't
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have to download a bunch of attachments.
I can send them to one page with the
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proposal. Case studies different
resources because, let's face it, the
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proposal is just one part of the sales
conversation and probably only one
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sales enablement piece of content that
you're sending so it makes it easier on
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them. And then the other thing is, you
know, we're selling to our champions,
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and then we're making them have to re
give our pitch to the entire buying
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committee. So one thing I do is put a
custom 2 to 3 minute video on the top
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of my sales reach page that says, Hey,
here's all the resources. Tie it back
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to the conversation. Here's the
proposal. Let me know if you have any
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questions, and it allows me to give a
little bit of kind of a mini pitch to
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the rest of the buying committee.
Introduce myself, which helps me build
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trust and credibility and helps the
buyer not have to repeat the entire
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pitch from scratch. So if anybody is
looking to do the same thing in their
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own sales process, I'd highly suggest
they reach out to you and the team over
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at sales reach for anybody listening.
Just go to sales reach that I owe to
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talk to Josh and the team. Yeah, that
it's so funny because that is such a
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trending thing. And everyone I've
talked to has talked about that
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collaboration between sales and
marketing because I think that a lot of
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times sales over here marketing over
here, and they're butting heads like
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you said. I mean, someone literally
called marketing, arts and crafts
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department. That's it's It's intense,
but it's it's so important in demand.
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Gen two kind of collaborate on the two.
And why do you think that is so
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important? Well, I think sales has a
different view of the customer than we
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do. You know, they're they're talking
to them all the time, every day, all
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day. We are not as marketers now. We
should be talking to our customers, but
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we're not going to be given the access
to them that sales is going to get. So
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that's number one. Number two. You know,
sales is ultimately the one who's going
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to bring the deal across the finish
line. So if we think as marketers, we
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can create personas or profiles or
journey maps or campaigns or even
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measurement and not go to the other
side of the house that is playing such
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also a very critical revenue generation
role and say, Hey, how can we work on
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this together? Why then should we
expect them to just magically take our
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leads? and run with them. That's a
pretty arrogant assumption on our part.
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And so what we have to do is start to
speak the language of the business. And
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when I think about sales and marketing,
alignment and collaboration, as I said,
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I've been in this industry for 25 years.
This is nothing new. Yet nobody seems
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to have made any headway with it. Well,
if marketers would say, Hey, let's stop
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trying to quote, get our place and just
focus on the buyer and working with
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sales to understand that buyer and
assuming some of the responsibility for
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revenue. Guess what? We would have our
seat at the table because we would
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actually be a revenue generation part
of the business and not an arts and
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crafts department. Mm, That's good.
That's good. That collaboration is so
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important, vital, so switching gears a
little bit. Here in this book, you
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really focus on a road map to implement
change, and that's what I really want
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to focus on here. I think a lot of
organizations struggle with the idea of
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change. In general, change is hard, but
for those who are ready and willing to
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take that step, forward and to
challenge the status quo, if you will.
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Can you share some of the pitfalls to
be aware of? That might come along with
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this change and likely will. I think
one of the biggest pitfalls is not
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realizing from a CMO perspective or
even a director senior director.
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Perspective is that what you're about
to embark upon is more a change
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management initiative than a marketing
initiative. So that makes two culture.
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I think the pitfalls are not
recognizing the fact that you're going
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to have people who this scares them to
death.
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You know, James talks about it with
what you guys do. Their at sweet fish
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and the B two b gross show is the human
element of what we do in business every
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day. You know, we have people who, when
you say, hey, we're going to change the
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marketing charter and become more of a
revenue engine immediately, you're
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gonna have people saying, What does
this mean for me as an individual?
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And it is my job, secure house, my job
going to change. You know how How do I
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collect sales may scare somebody, right?
I don't want to talk to sales they
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scare me to death there. There are all
type a go getter. So it's that type of
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thing that we have to be aware of.
Number one is that human element.
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Number two is This is not an overnight
fix. You're not going to change the
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culture of your marketing organization
in 90 days. You're not going to create
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a buyer driven strategy in 90 days just
because you bought marketing automation.
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It doesn't happen that fast.
Transformation doesn't happen that fast.
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And what I always say to my clients is,
you didn't get yourself here overnight.
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You can't expect to change it overnight
and then understand, too, that there's
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going to be ebbs and flows. You're
gonna have really great winds, but
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you're also going to take some steps
back. So the example I always uses any
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time you've done any hiking, if you've
done any hiking in the mountains and I
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spent 10 years in Colorado and so when
you hike a 14,000 ft, you don't go
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straight up the side of the mountain.
You sometimes do switchbacks where you
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start to wind around the side of the
mountain and sometimes you go down so
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that you can go up and same with change.
There's gonna be some EBS. There's
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gonna be some flows. There's gonna be
some, you know, moments where you have
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that sharp curve that goes up and
everybody's celebrating. Well, at that
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point, everybody is now adjusting to
the new world, so you can expect a
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little regression, and that's fine.
You're just going to go back up. So
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when you understand that it's a journey
and understand that you're gonna have
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some ebbs and flows, you're gonna be
able to embrace that change in a much
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more important and much more impactful
way. Yeah. So you're saying basically,
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through all of this, in order to kind
of implement a really good demand in
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strategy, you kind of have to start
backwards, take a step backwards and
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look at your culture. Yeah, I think I
mean, I talked to one prospect recently
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who I said, you know, from talk to me
about your ideal customer profiles,
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What do you have? They said, Well, we
have them, but we really haven't done
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much with them. And I said, Okay, well,
we would start there to revisit those,
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and their response is well, we know we
have them. We don't. Okay, so you have
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them, But you're not doing anything
with them. So I can't start to work
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with you in a demanding strategy.
Unless you're willing to take a hard,
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fast look at these personas and use
those to help drive your channel and
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your content strategy. If you don't
want to start there, I can't work with
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you. And so that understanding that Hey,
if we do this, if we go forward and
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develop a modern, sophisticated demands
on strategy which we need to do to
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match the sophistication of our buyers,
it is going to change the way marketing
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traditionally has worked, which is get
a content asset, blast out an email
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posted on the website, collect all the
names, send them off to sales and say,
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Hey, we just launched a campaign and
then go off to the next one. That's not
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how modern demand generation works. And
so, yeah, you have to embrace the fact
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that your role is going to change and
it's going to become much more
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important to the organization. Yeah,
and among all of this change and all
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these potential pitfalls, I guess my
question is in the end, is it worth it?
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And what are those benefits? What are
the benefits of, you know, really
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implementing this change in this
strategies? Yeah, I think number one is
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You actually become relevant to the
organization in terms of you become a
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revenue engine and always on
sustainable revenue engine, which means
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marketing actually becomes sought after
an important in the organization. And
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quite honestly, that's what are CEOs
and CFOs are begging for. So that's
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number one number two. Just from a
personal aspect, I've seen people who
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create those have an incredible
opportunity within their careers to get
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promoted, to take new roles, to move
into a CMO position or an S V P
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position. So from that aspect, Number
three, it's worth it for our customers.
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Customers are out there are begging
from an experiential perspective for
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companies to meet them where they're at
and customer experience starts long
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before anybody buys something. And so,
in my definition, I talked about the
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attraction or the acquisition. I also
talked about the expansion of customers,
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and so when we think about how we're
gonna expand our customers, we need to
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ensure that they have a great
experience as well. And so if we want
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to succeed as marketers in this new
world in which we live, which is a
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rapid, digitally transforming world, if
we want to stay in this role and
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succeed in this role, we have to do
demand generation to match a digitally
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savvy buyer. I love what you said about
customer experience starts long before
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anyone buys anything, and I think
that's that's so important and people
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don't really think about it. But it's
building that relationship that kind of
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goes in before or even you set up this
demand jin strategy. It's like building
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those relationships, making yourself
known in the space, making yourself to
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go to. So would you say that that is
kind of and correct me if I'm wrong
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here. But maybe that's kind of similar
to, in a way, content based networking.
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Yeah, I think it is, absolutely. I mean,
one of the ways I'm gonna endear you to
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my brand is to build trust. So here's
an example. I got a LinkedIn email
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yesterday from someone who basically
they're they're lead generation company
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and said, Hey, I'm looking for a coach,
Can you and I set up a time. So I
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checked out the profile and I knew what
she did for a living. But I was like,
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Okay, this is interesting. Maybe
they're really looking for that advisor
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type role. So I said, Hey, I would love
to set up time. Well, the follow up
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email said Well, actually, what I want
to know is, would you be open to
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getting 10 to 15 leads a week from our
company? It was a total lie, and
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honestly, it just pissed me off. So I
took a look at her company. I'm like,
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Do you? So I emailed her back and I
said, Do you think I would ever at this
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point do business with you in any way,
shape or farm? Because you lied to me
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and you were deceitful in your original
email? If you would come at me with
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your original proposition, I still
would have said no, but at least you
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would have had your integrity intact.
And so when we think about what we're
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trying to do and the content based in
networking, I'm there to build trust
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and into endear my brand to you to say,
Hey, I know what I'm talking about. I
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have your best interest in mind. I'm
gonna build trust and I'm going to be a
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source Whether or not you buy from us,
I am going to be a source that you can
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come to to help qualify and quantify
your purchase. If, at that point I'm
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that brand where people will see that,
then great. Once I'm in a buying
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process, I may come to you not saying
you're always going to be the vendor of
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choice. But you've done a lot in that
experiential piece to build that trust
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so that I can move forward when that
purchase process kicks off based on
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whatever trigger events happened.
That's so good. And that's kind of what
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we're trying to do here at Sweet Fish,
too. You know, we're trying to make
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ourselves to go to and b two b
podcasting, and it's interesting
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because it's not all about generating
sales and generating leads and doing
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these things. It's about building
relationships with people and making
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ourselves that go to and, you know,
we're even doing a B two B podcasting
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course. We're working on it now, and I
think that's going to be a great
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resource to people, and so that's that
is the overall goal. And I do think
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that building those relationships are
important and, you know, like you said,
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people will lie to you and people will
use you for things and it's like, Oh, I
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know you're just trying to make a sale
So that's good, Yeah, But you can make
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you can make a sale in a way that keeps
your integrity intact. You know, last
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week I had to prospects who? After a
half hour conversation, I said, I just
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don't think I'm gonna be the best
vendor for you. I don't think with what
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you need and it was one of those, like,
Could I do it? But am I the best at it?
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Would it be a good relationship between
myself and that client? The answer was
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no. So I said, Here are three other
groups you should call based on what
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you need. If you need anything else,
let me know. But there's a company who,
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you know, they had a need. They came to
me. It wasn't the right fit. Now down
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the road, they may leave that company.
They may have something that's more
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aligned. But I have a fairly strong
confidence that one. Another need
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occurs. I'm going to be on their list
simply by saying, Hey, I'm going to
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help you again. Whether or not you buy
from me, I'm gonna help you. So you
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make the most informed decision. Call
these three other vendors. Yeah, that's
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great. Carlos, this has been so
insightful. Thank you so much for
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joining me. And if anybody out there is
listening and you know is interested in
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learning more, where can they find you
online? Yeah, you can find me on
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LinkedIn. Carlos Hidalgo. H i d a L g o.
You can find me on Twitter at sea a
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hidalgo, uh, or visit our website.
Visit the c X. That's B I s u M c x dot
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00:22:53.930 --> 00:22:57.550
com. Great. Fantastic. Well, thank you
so much for joining me on GDP growth. I
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appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks.
Leslie, are you on LinkedIn? That's a
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stupid question. Of course you're on
LinkedIn. Here's sweet fish. We've gone
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all in on the platform. Multiple people
from our team are creating content
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there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for
me. Other times it's a micro video or a
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slide deck. And sometimes it's just a
regular old status update that shares
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their unique point of view on B two b
marketing leadership or their job
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function. We're posting this content
through their personal profile, not our
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company page, and it would warm my
heart and soul. If you connected with
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each of our evangelists, we'll be
adding more down the road. But for now,
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you should connect with Bill. Read our
CEO, Kelcy Montgomery, our creative
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director. Dan Sanchez, our director of
audience growth. Logan Lyles, our
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director of partnerships, and me, James
Carberry. We're having a whole lot of
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fun on linked in pretty much every
single day, and we'd love for you to be
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a part of it.