Demand Gen: What Every B2B Company Needs to Know

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah. 2 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:08.109 Welcome back to be to be Growth. My name is James Carberry, and we are 3 00:00:08.109 --> 00:00:13.490 joined today by Sidney Waterfall. She is the director of Demand Jin at Refine 4 00:00:13.490 --> 00:00:18.370 Labs. And we're going to be talking with her, as well as Dan Sanchez from 5 00:00:18.370 --> 00:00:22.960 our team, our director of audience growth, and Leslie Cruz, one of the 6 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:27.890 producers at Sweet Fish as well. And we've got some questions for Sydney 7 00:00:27.900 --> 00:00:32.189 that I'm really excited to dive into. We're doing this live on clubhouse as 8 00:00:32.189 --> 00:00:36.400 well. So as soon as we get through the questions that we want to ask Sydney, 9 00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:41.220 we're going to open it up to our room here. That's our live audience here on 10 00:00:41.220 --> 00:00:45.600 clubhouse, and I'm going to have them jump up on stage and ask Sydney some 11 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:50.230 questions as well. So, Sydney, I would love to dive in here. Are you ready to 12 00:00:50.230 --> 00:00:56.110 roll? I'm ready. Let's do it. Awesome. So So Sydney to start off. First off, 13 00:00:56.120 --> 00:01:01.220 I've been a huge fan of what you and your team are doing it. Refined labs. 14 00:01:01.230 --> 00:01:06.130 Chris Walker, for those of you that don't already follow him on on, 15 00:01:06.130 --> 00:01:10.950 LinkedIn is just leaving an incredible movement over there are fine labs. And 16 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:15.280 Sydney, the stuff that you're putting out on LinkedIn is incredible as well. 17 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:22.580 And so I want to start by asking where to start when creating a growth 18 00:01:22.580 --> 00:01:26.170 flywheel. I've been hearing a lot of people talk about the concept of the 19 00:01:26.170 --> 00:01:30.500 flywheel. I've had some conversations with with our own team about this, 20 00:01:30.510 --> 00:01:34.130 about this concept. But from what you're seeing and the experience that 21 00:01:34.130 --> 00:01:37.590 you've got at refined labs and your other demands and background that you 22 00:01:37.590 --> 00:01:41.450 lead that led into this role tell us kind of where, where to start when it 23 00:01:41.450 --> 00:01:45.320 comes to creating a growth flywheel. Yeah, it's a I think growth will. I 24 00:01:45.320 --> 00:01:50.860 will have kind of made a new, like buzz word, if you will. But yeah, I think 25 00:01:51.340 --> 00:01:55.440 it's a little challenge. Drinks everyone. You have to have a starting 26 00:01:55.440 --> 00:02:00.160 place and kind of have a plan, and it kind of depends on what stage of your 27 00:02:00.160 --> 00:02:06.570 company is in. Really, if you are just starting out, I would say definitely, 28 00:02:06.570 --> 00:02:11.450 just start with understanding your customers first. A lot of companies 29 00:02:11.450 --> 00:02:17.040 will hire demand jin marketers or a head of marketing and say, Here's our 30 00:02:17.050 --> 00:02:23.750 ACP now go out and get those people and it's a little bit, I would say, uh, 31 00:02:23.760 --> 00:02:29.210 more complex than that, as we all know from marketing. But I would say Take a 32 00:02:29.210 --> 00:02:33.610 step back and actually understand your validate your if you can or if it's 33 00:02:33.610 --> 00:02:37.030 already been validated. That's great that it's already that works already 34 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:42.940 been done, but actually, like talk to them, um, and and interact with them on 35 00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:46.990 channels where they're at if they're on lengthen great. If they're not there in 36 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:52.080 a slack community or, um, other types of communities, I would say, Try to 37 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:52.760 figure out 38 00:02:53.940 --> 00:02:58.890 really what they are, and this will kind of help you with your strategy on 39 00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:03.830 the actual how, like how you're going to execute a growth plan. And this is 40 00:03:03.830 --> 00:03:07.660 like a step that I've missed but previously in my career. And, you know, 41 00:03:08.040 --> 00:03:12.870 you kind of pay for it and you go back and you and you figure it out. And then 42 00:03:12.870 --> 00:03:15.970 if you if you already have data and your company might be a little bit more 43 00:03:15.970 --> 00:03:20.270 mature and you already they have a salesforce data and you can I would say, 44 00:03:20.270 --> 00:03:25.090 dig into the data audit the pipeline, see what's working and what's not. And 45 00:03:25.090 --> 00:03:29.370 I would break that out versus, like, high intent versus low intent. So high 46 00:03:29.370 --> 00:03:32.530 intent is going to be everything. Probably coming inbound on your website. 47 00:03:32.540 --> 00:03:37.750 Demo sales requests, pricing meeting books through chat box If you have that 48 00:03:38.140 --> 00:03:43.770 inverse low intent, right? So if you're doing content downloads, Webinars kind 49 00:03:43.770 --> 00:03:47.960 of like those on profile leads. I call them and split out the funnel by those 50 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:52.960 two things and then look at it by lead source. And that will tell you a lot of 51 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:58.300 what to lean into more what has been done, what hasn't been done, and then 52 00:03:58.300 --> 00:04:03.050 what you just literally need to turn off. So that's kind of, I guess, my 53 00:04:03.050 --> 00:04:09.500 approach to starting. And then, obviously everyone wants to see results 54 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:14.380 in the plan, so you're definitely going to need organic and paid at the at the 55 00:04:14.380 --> 00:04:19.589 same time. But I would I approach, creating a growth flywheel on creating 56 00:04:19.589 --> 00:04:27.180 an audience and then using paid, then guarantee that your desired audience 57 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:31.220 that maybe you're not in your audience yet, but you're creating actually sees 58 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:36.170 your content and kind of builds over time, especially unpaid social and then 59 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:40.460 the biggest thing. One of the biggest mistakes I've made in my career. And 60 00:04:40.460 --> 00:04:45.820 the biggest advice I tell people is when you're really starting, start with 61 00:04:45.820 --> 00:04:52.260 1 to 2 channels. Don't launch Facebook. LinkedIn paid search ads. You know, 62 00:04:52.640 --> 00:04:56.350 display whatever you're launching. Don't launch everything at the same 63 00:04:56.350 --> 00:05:03.300 time. Watch one or two things first and understand. If those channels are going 64 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:07.670 to work for you and your audience and your company and then once they're at 65 00:05:07.670 --> 00:05:11.770 the point of their delivering something consistently so delivering pipeline or 66 00:05:11.770 --> 00:05:14.450 delivering demo requests, 67 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:21.260 opportunities, things like that, then move on to like your next platform or 68 00:05:21.260 --> 00:05:26.240 your next kind of experiment. Um, this is, I think, where a lot of people fall 69 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.760 down. Um, and I've done it before myself to where, you know, you just get 70 00:05:30.760 --> 00:05:35.500 excited and you're like, we're going to launch this on four channels and you 71 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:40.390 don't really give it the actual time. It needs to the right attention to it 72 00:05:40.400 --> 00:05:44.680 to really like hone in and figure out that channel. And if that channel is 73 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:48.880 going to be a part of your core mix or not, and then you know after a little 74 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:53.550 bit if you can't nail it. If you can't actually get it, repeating consistently, 75 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:58.130 just kind of move on and try. Try a different channel or a different 76 00:05:58.130 --> 00:06:02.110 approach, and then you can come back like But if it's Facebook or something, 77 00:06:02.110 --> 00:06:06.590 right and you've tried for, like, three months to get Facebook delivering and 78 00:06:06.590 --> 00:06:11.980 you tried to optimize the mix of content and ad types and things like 79 00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:17.480 that, and you can't nail it, um, you can always go back and try it again. 80 00:06:17.490 --> 00:06:22.200 It's not like Facebook's never going to work for us. It's just you probably 81 00:06:22.200 --> 00:06:26.690 need more time to figure it out and understand. Yeah, Sydney, I love that 82 00:06:26.690 --> 00:06:30.390 advice about doing one or two channels at a time because I think so. Often I 83 00:06:30.390 --> 00:06:33.350 have customers that get so excited about launching their podcast and 84 00:06:33.350 --> 00:06:36.580 they're like, Okay, we have to push this out on Twitter Instagram Facebook. 85 00:06:36.590 --> 00:06:40.080 What else can we put it on? But it's like, you know, I love that idea of 86 00:06:40.080 --> 00:06:43.370 owning the 1 to 2 channels. That way you can kind of dig into the to the 87 00:06:43.370 --> 00:06:48.340 data there, and whenever you're digging into that data, what would you say are 88 00:06:48.340 --> 00:06:54.300 the top metrics and KPs that you need to measure. Yeah, this is a good one, I 89 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:58.610 will say just kind of follow up on that last thought is when you optimize 1 to 90 00:06:58.610 --> 00:07:01.360 2 channels first it that's what we'll 91 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:07.350 help you actually propel the growth fly will, if you will, because if you've 92 00:07:07.350 --> 00:07:12.090 got, like six channels going, you don't really know what's working and what's 93 00:07:12.090 --> 00:07:16.130 not. And what could be repeatable and what's not. So that's a good approach, 94 00:07:16.140 --> 00:07:21.830 but you have to follow up on KPI s. I think the KPs might, you know, differ a 95 00:07:21.830 --> 00:07:27.740 little bit if your sales letter product, lad, but there'd be similar. So I 96 00:07:27.750 --> 00:07:34.040 really focused only on website. High intent leads primarily so kind of going 97 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:37.040 from the top of the funnel to the bottom of funnel of like metrics. And 98 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:41.360 there's some metrics in between these every marketer can dig into, but kind 99 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:46.060 of the four categories. I look at our top of funnel, so, like what's 100 00:07:46.060 --> 00:07:50.300 happening on the website, so that would be, you know, traffic to that 101 00:07:50.300 --> 00:07:54.700 conversion page. Whether it's a demo page or free trial, sign up. What what 102 00:07:54.700 --> 00:07:59.360 is that conversion on that page over time. So, are you growing traffic to 103 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:04.990 that page? Are you growing conversions over time? Um, the second layer of that 104 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:11.110 is just like the raw number. So a number of demo requests number of SQL s 105 00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:16.970 and sqs. And then you can measure how that's trending over time by campaign 106 00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:22.130 and lead source, and then the conversions on those as well. The third 107 00:08:22.130 --> 00:08:28.540 metric is a classified as, like website marketing pipeline. So whether it's 108 00:08:28.540 --> 00:08:33.559 coming through a form on your website, a chat bots on your website live chat 109 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.169 on your website, whatever the convergent points might be. But growing 110 00:08:37.169 --> 00:08:43.590 that pipeline over time and then from an acquisition cost perspective, look 111 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:48.390 at cost per demo. So that's kind of like a cost per lead metric cost per 112 00:08:48.390 --> 00:08:53.600 SQL and cost per sq Oh, and when you go down to cost for SQL, that will really 113 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:58.680 let you know if it's scalable or not. Um, and how how it's converting in the 114 00:08:58.690 --> 00:09:03.490 lower funnel, I said I'd love to circle back a little bit on the topic of only 115 00:09:03.490 --> 00:09:08.330 posting to one or two channels or driving one or two channels. Um I have 116 00:09:08.330 --> 00:09:11.840 a kind of like a different nuanced thought on it. And I've seen this. I've 117 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.360 seen this play out well, and I've seen this play out. Not so well. I'd be 118 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:19.470 curious to get your take on it. Well, I absolutely agree that you can, um, you 119 00:09:19.470 --> 00:09:23.960 generally want to push and drive most of your attention on 1 to 2 channels. 120 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.870 What if you had created maybe a page, Or maybe like Twitter is not one of 121 00:09:28.870 --> 00:09:31.800 your two channels, but you still set up the Twitter account. You grab your 122 00:09:31.800 --> 00:09:36.750 names and then you just syndicate there. You know, I think of Seth Godin's 123 00:09:36.760 --> 00:09:39.970 Twitter, which has a substantial following, because it's Seth Godin, 124 00:09:39.970 --> 00:09:43.580 right? But at the same time, he's really just syndicating his blog post 125 00:09:43.580 --> 00:09:46.970 like, I think he's got it up on an automated tool. It's not like he gets 126 00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:50.260 as much engagement as it could if you're working the channel, but you 127 00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:52.730 know people. A lot of people are reading his blog post from Twitter 128 00:09:52.730 --> 00:09:56.310 because that's kind of how some people like to stay subscribed to him. Would 129 00:09:56.310 --> 00:10:00.370 you still say there's some value in setting up the other channels just 130 00:10:00.370 --> 00:10:05.030 purely for syndication while you go hard at one or two. Or or would you say 131 00:10:05.030 --> 00:10:10.440 that most people who do that are actually maybe making it harder later 132 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:14.020 on for themselves once they do want to activate the channel? Do you have a 133 00:10:14.030 --> 00:10:18.990 thought on that? Yeah, I kind of a couple. I mean, probably a couple of 134 00:10:18.990 --> 00:10:25.550 questions that I would respond to that with our, um how big is the team and 135 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:32.000 where does it fall on the priority list? So if you only have one person right, 136 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.920 that's maybe a little bit different. But if you've got two or three people 137 00:10:34.920 --> 00:10:39.170 or you're lucky enough to have a pretty large marketing team, then that's 138 00:10:39.170 --> 00:10:43.370 something you can definitely deploy. And you can kind of let just use that 139 00:10:43.370 --> 00:10:47.560 as content distribution organically right and see. See how it goes 140 00:10:47.560 --> 00:10:52.460 organically. But when I say like one or two channels, I would say that's 141 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:58.160 what what you're expecting to, like, test and see in terms of pipeline. If 142 00:10:58.160 --> 00:11:03.160 you can make this channel work both from organic and paid perspective. So 143 00:11:03.540 --> 00:11:08.150 if you're on Twitter, but it's it's your it's your number three channel. Uh, 144 00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:12.520 your third priority channel, so you're prioritizing it as its third priority. 145 00:11:12.530 --> 00:11:16.500 Maybe you're on other channels as number one and number two, and that's 146 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:19.790 where you're spending, you know, the 80% of your time trying to figure out 147 00:11:19.790 --> 00:11:23.510 and trying to nail. That's kind of how I would look at it. So it's definitely 148 00:11:23.510 --> 00:11:30.430 not a, um, there's certainly not a one size fits all approach, but I wouldn't 149 00:11:30.430 --> 00:11:35.160 let it. What I see happen and it's happened to me, too, is I wouldn't let 150 00:11:35.540 --> 00:11:41.230 New Shiny thing or a new channel that you want to test and you want to invest 151 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:47.150 in, kind of take away from your what you're trying to focus on with your top 152 00:11:47.150 --> 00:11:52.990 two priorities. It's like Slate it in. You're mapping of your planning out 153 00:11:52.990 --> 00:11:55.800 like, Okay, we're gonna like in this example, we're going to post and see 154 00:11:55.800 --> 00:11:59.210 what we can get organically with on Twitter, with not much effort to see 155 00:11:59.210 --> 00:12:01.850 where that goes. But it's our third priority, so we're not going to let it 156 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:08.700 dictate or take away resources from our two priorities. But, you know, after we 157 00:12:08.710 --> 00:12:14.040 get one of those channels optimist, then now we'll go to Twitter when we 158 00:12:14.040 --> 00:12:18.480 have the time to actually give it those the love it needs to figure out if it's 159 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:23.360 going to be a top channel, or at least a portion of the mix in your growth 160 00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:30.290 flywheel makes a ton of sense to follow up that question. I wanted to know what 161 00:12:30.290 --> 00:12:35.250 you handle. The transition, just from collecting leads to actually moving to 162 00:12:35.250 --> 00:12:40.750 like a true demand gen scenario. Yeah, this is, um, I think this is a very hot 163 00:12:40.750 --> 00:12:45.320 topic right now, especially just given what's going on in B two b marketing 164 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:50.030 and kind of traditional following from that old model of just lean Jen 165 00:12:50.040 --> 00:12:54.960 contents indication. Driving a bunch of volume that way versus kind of flipping 166 00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:00.350 the script and focusing on what drives qualified pipeline. So 167 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.640 I think it's something that a lot of companies struggle with because they 168 00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:12.600 already have sales teams set up where they need the volume and to feed their 169 00:13:12.610 --> 00:13:19.170 SDRs in their eighties. But and that puts you in as a marketer and just even, 170 00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:24.270 you know, someone who is involved in the funnel. Even as sales leadership 171 00:13:24.270 --> 00:13:26.820 and things like that. That puts you in a hard place when you're like, Yeah, 172 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:32.110 let's just turn all this off and we're going to go to this model that never 173 00:13:32.110 --> 00:13:37.100 works. So don't do that. Uh, you can't just completely shut something off 174 00:13:37.100 --> 00:13:41.430 without having a plan and something else running, either transitioning it 175 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:47.620 or having a very laid out detailed plan. So you have to prepare for a shift like 176 00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:52.370 this, and you have to prepare for it with sales, leadership, marketing, 177 00:13:52.370 --> 00:13:55.540 leadership all your life. Go to market teams because it's kind of a 178 00:13:55.540 --> 00:13:59.160 fundamental shift in the way you think and the metrics that you're going to be 179 00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:04.780 reporting on as well. So you need to me as a demand and market, or you need to 180 00:14:04.780 --> 00:14:08.380 come up with a plan and have it well thought out, and it takes a little time. 181 00:14:08.380 --> 00:14:11.190 You're not going to do that in like, a week, and then the next week say, Hey, 182 00:14:11.190 --> 00:14:15.290 we're turning this off. We're turning this on. So I'd say, Define what 183 00:14:15.290 --> 00:14:21.160 campaigns you're going to start with and why, and on what channels to take, 184 00:14:21.640 --> 00:14:27.010 you know, get away from I would say, the Legion model and then obviously 185 00:14:27.010 --> 00:14:34.430 start small. Some companies, depending on if you. If you need that volume, 186 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:38.800 it's going to be an issue for sales, right? So there's a couple of things 187 00:14:38.800 --> 00:14:43.840 that you can do. Number one. You need to meet with your sales leadership team 188 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.930 and you need to get aligned on. Hey, this is gonna Volume is going to go 189 00:14:47.930 --> 00:14:52.060 down, right? But here's what we can do to supplement it. That has to be the 190 00:14:52.060 --> 00:14:55.520 expectation, because everyone will freak out when volume goes down and 191 00:14:55.520 --> 00:14:59.070 they want to go back to their old traditional ways of just running, like 192 00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:04.710 get any books on link dinner like contents. Indication campaigns. Um, so 193 00:15:04.730 --> 00:15:09.860 the more thorough your plan is, I think the more confidence not just like the 194 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:13.940 marketing team, but other like the sales team will have, and they'll be 195 00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:20.210 prepared for it as well. So if you need content, if you need to supply while 196 00:15:20.210 --> 00:15:26.070 you make this transition because there will be a law and leads, obviously the 197 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.820 dip in the leads are going to be in the leads that convert at the lowest 198 00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:32.350 percent. So it's not going to impact like if you know if your demos are 199 00:15:32.350 --> 00:15:38.280 going down, but you definitely need to have kind of backup plans for 200 00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:42.620 yourselves. Team. If you already have a sales team that's reliant on those Hey, 201 00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:46.070 everybody, Logan with sweet fish here if you've been listening to the show 202 00:15:46.070 --> 00:15:49.750 for a while, you know we're big proponents of putting out original 203 00:15:49.760 --> 00:15:53.800 organic content on linked in. But one thing that's always been a struggle for 204 00:15:53.800 --> 00:15:58.460 a team like ours is to easily track the reach of that linked in content. That's 205 00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:01.780 why I was really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from a 206 00:16:01.780 --> 00:16:06.310 connection on you guessed it linked in. Since our team started using shield, 207 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:10.840 I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance of our 208 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.870 LinkedIn content without having to manually log it ourselves. It 209 00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:18.240 automatically creates reports and generate some dashboards that are 210 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.480 incredibly useful to see things like what contents been performing the best 211 00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:25.990 And what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our 212 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.860 average views per post? I highly suggest you guys check out this tool. 213 00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:33.230 If you're putting out content on LinkedIn and if you're not, you should 214 00:16:33.230 --> 00:16:38.630 be. It's been a game changer for us. If you go to shield app dot ai and check 215 00:16:38.630 --> 00:16:43.490 out the 10 day free trial. You can even use our promo code B two B growth to 216 00:16:43.490 --> 00:16:49.480 get a 25% discount. Again, that's shield app dot ai And that promo code 217 00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:54.630 is B. The number to be growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to the 218 00:16:54.630 --> 00:17:03.380 show. You shared a couple of the kind of the Legion type campaigns, the gated 219 00:17:03.380 --> 00:17:06.930 e books on LinkedIn, that kind of stuff. Could you walk us through? What are 220 00:17:06.930 --> 00:17:11.430 some dimension campaigns that you're seeing a lot of success with with with 221 00:17:11.430 --> 00:17:17.250 some of your clients? Yeah. So, um, definitely. And Chris talks about this 222 00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:22.270 on the podcast, too. So but some of the stuff that we deploy with clients that 223 00:17:22.270 --> 00:17:28.860 we see kind of success with as we start figuring out the mix is kind of a more 224 00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:34.130 product based campaigns where we are feature kind of marketing product 225 00:17:34.130 --> 00:17:39.170 marketing. We're featuring a feature or something that they do very well. Maybe 226 00:17:39.170 --> 00:17:43.330 their competition doesn't and we're just educating them the audience on 227 00:17:43.330 --> 00:17:48.860 what that may be. And then we're not asking for any information. We're just 228 00:17:48.860 --> 00:17:53.000 wanting them to consume the ad and then also click through. And then they click 229 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:57.600 through to a quick product page that they can scroll on the page. I 230 00:17:57.600 --> 00:18:01.950 understand what the product does and then not convert. We're not. When I say 231 00:18:01.950 --> 00:18:05.120 demand campaigns, I guess we're not looking for that direct conversion 232 00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:10.200 right then, like a traditional Legion campaign would run. You're looking for 233 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.360 that direct form pill or you're looking for them to click and immediately fill 234 00:18:13.360 --> 00:18:18.030 out the form. It's really like product awareness. Some other good heavens is 235 00:18:18.030 --> 00:18:22.390 case studies, right? If you can, you know, published some case studies that 236 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:27.220 have some interesting data behind them and get your audience to see Oh, this 237 00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:30.810 client. This company used this and that's what they solved for them. Hey, 238 00:18:30.810 --> 00:18:35.570 I have that same problem. I want to see how they did that and goes to a short 239 00:18:35.580 --> 00:18:40.550 case study page that's consumable on mobile. That's those are some two that 240 00:18:40.560 --> 00:18:44.140 we've seen pretty good success with. That we run and we figure out which 241 00:18:44.140 --> 00:18:49.750 messaging works and which messaging doesn't work as good, which value props 242 00:18:49.750 --> 00:18:54.070 people are engaging with, and then we can see how that correlates to overall 243 00:18:54.070 --> 00:18:59.220 website demo requests. Yeah, Sydney going in, um, kind of a different 244 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:04.280 direction here. Um, I just wanted to ask what? What role would you say? 245 00:19:04.280 --> 00:19:11.640 Operations plays in enabling growth. I love marketing ops. I think to be good 246 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.940 at, you know, do we just need to understand it? I kind of, like, went 247 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:19.140 off on a post on somebody linked in a couple weeks ago. But a lot of 248 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:26.560 companies, especially early, even like mid size BB SAS companies that I look 249 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:31.860 at her I've worked for or, um, I have, you know, access to their self worth. 250 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.830 There's so many simple, simple things that could be done that would make 251 00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:40.260 marketing and sales leadership life so much easier from a reporting 252 00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:44.790 perspective if they've implemented it. So I'm a huge, huge proponent of 253 00:19:44.790 --> 00:19:48.090 getting an operations, And it could be it doesn't have to be marketing ops. It 254 00:19:48.090 --> 00:19:54.540 could be sales apps, or like a general rib ops type of person in your growth 255 00:19:54.540 --> 00:20:00.140 team earlier, or working with your growth team sooner than later. Because 256 00:20:00.150 --> 00:20:04.770 many BDB companies fail to invest in the foundational items. And I'm not 257 00:20:04.770 --> 00:20:09.260 talking about Martek. I'm just talking about like the basics of setting up, 258 00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:14.110 you know, a CRM and a marketing automation platform so that they're 259 00:20:14.110 --> 00:20:19.120 talking to each other well and leveraging the data that they do have. 260 00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:23.950 A lot of companies have data. That's just not, but they don't have the right 261 00:20:23.950 --> 00:20:27.210 fields or they weren't capturing it correctly. So it's really hard to 262 00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:33.530 report on. And if you set this up and you invest in it early, I mean this 263 00:20:33.530 --> 00:20:38.650 will help the entire company. It's going to help the CEO pull, um, have 264 00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:42.030 data that they need for board meetings and investors. That's going to help 265 00:20:42.030 --> 00:20:46.410 your finance team. So it's not just limited the marketing and sales. I 266 00:20:46.410 --> 00:20:50.410 think this is something I see that companies don't do. And I'm very 267 00:20:50.410 --> 00:20:55.270 passionate about it to get to get them to do it sooner than later. All right, 268 00:20:55.270 --> 00:20:58.530 I want to go on ahead. Uh, we've got eight minutes left here with Sidney. I 269 00:20:58.530 --> 00:21:02.720 want to go ahead and open up the room for anyone that's got questions. So, 270 00:21:02.730 --> 00:21:06.290 while we're waiting on hand raisers, Dan, is there anything that we've 271 00:21:06.290 --> 00:21:10.510 talked about here that that you want to double, click on or press press more 272 00:21:10.510 --> 00:21:16.430 into? Absolutely. I'm still trying to figure out the scope of demand. Gen 273 00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:20.750 What it includes. What it doesn't include, um had a fun post a couple of 274 00:21:20.750 --> 00:21:25.600 weeks ago about the debate about about while demand Gen. Is, um, I'm curious 275 00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:29.380 to see Chris Walker showed up and it was fun. He described it as being a 276 00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:32.990 little bit more tactical, though it's still strategic. Would you consider 277 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:36.580 demand gender? Kind of be like, if you look at just like the five PS of 278 00:21:36.580 --> 00:21:42.890 marketing product place price promotion that demand. Jin kind of sits solidly 279 00:21:42.890 --> 00:21:46.480 just within that promotion like it doesn't really. You don't go to your 280 00:21:46.490 --> 00:21:50.630 customers and dig into the like, the product, the place of the price, even 281 00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:55.060 the position of the general company too much, right? Is it just generally land 282 00:21:55.060 --> 00:22:00.510 within the promotion side? Yeah, I think. Yeah, this is such a hot topic 283 00:22:00.510 --> 00:22:05.970 right now, but I think traditionally it's always sat kind of that promotion, 284 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:09.760 and it's kind of been more of a Hey, here's what we need. Now go figure out 285 00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:14.200 how to get it, and that's what the management has done. I think, though 286 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:19.180 what we're seeing now demand is growing into a little bit more on the strategy 287 00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:26.310 side where, yes, you have. You have dimension executing and promoting 288 00:22:26.310 --> 00:22:32.180 things to get the pipeline that the company needs. But you can also, I 289 00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:38.610 think, one of the main at least what I try to do is take the Take the insights 290 00:22:38.610 --> 00:22:42.650 and learnings from that and give that back to the rest of the marketing team. 291 00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:47.860 The rest of the product and engineering. Um, that was something at my last 292 00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:51.460 company. I tried to do a lot, is really aligned with 293 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:57.350 product and engineering and our product marketing team with those insights, and 294 00:22:57.350 --> 00:23:02.300 especially to if content is separated from the mansion, you have to be able 295 00:23:02.300 --> 00:23:08.130 to talk to content and understand what's working and what's not. What's 296 00:23:08.130 --> 00:23:12.900 messaging is working and give that back to them. So then that can fuel the 297 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:17.060 content strategy because the content, strategy and the content fuels demand. 298 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:22.830 So it's kind of like a mini feedback loop in my mind. Awesome. Thanks, 299 00:23:22.830 --> 00:23:27.830 Sydney. We brought up Randy Cassar. He is a social strategist and podcaster at 300 00:23:27.840 --> 00:23:32.640 uniform. Randy, do we have your permission to share your voice on on 301 00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:36.630 our podcast before we have to ask your question. Yes, of course. Wonderful. 302 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.670 Alright, Randy, fire away with your question or your comment for Sydney. 303 00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:45.890 This is a great conversation. Love you guys, Uh, bring this topic up. So I sit 304 00:23:45.890 --> 00:23:50.220 in on the social side of the content side and then I work with our demand. 305 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:57.290 Gen If there are, that's two questions. If there is one tip that you have for 306 00:23:57.290 --> 00:24:01.850 how social can work with demand, Gen, would it be that's number one. And then 307 00:24:01.850 --> 00:24:06.690 the second question is completely unrelated. How does automation fit 308 00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:13.320 within the demand? Gen space. Okay. Hi. Ready? Nice to Iain. Thanks for asking 309 00:24:13.320 --> 00:24:20.240 questions. So the first question was be the number one tip or tip for how 310 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:26.980 social can work with the mansion or some similar around. That's okay. Yeah. 311 00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:27.560 I think 312 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:34.090 how I've approached this before is especially be running paid on social, 313 00:24:34.090 --> 00:24:40.190 right, which demands unusually is or they're wanting to Is having kind of a 314 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:45.560 feedback loop like this is what's working well and and also a testing 315 00:24:45.560 --> 00:24:51.780 framework. So we before we even launched something on paid What do we 316 00:24:51.780 --> 00:24:55.760 want to what do we want to find out. What do we want to test? What messaging 317 00:24:55.760 --> 00:25:01.070 do we think could be interesting? Um, and different to try or, you know, 318 00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:03.790 something like that. And from a creative perspective to obviously the 319 00:25:03.790 --> 00:25:11.160 images are crucial and social. So I'm a line with creating a quick testing 320 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.960 framework for paid ads depending on which direction you're trying to go. 321 00:25:15.970 --> 00:25:22.190 And then, um, also, I mean, I think social and content should have access 322 00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:25.620 to everything that you're running. It should be able to see the same data 323 00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:30.820 that imagine seeing and both pull insights out of that to inform your 324 00:25:30.820 --> 00:25:35.860 strategy in the future. Good point. Okay. The second question was, how does 325 00:25:35.870 --> 00:25:39.930 Adam Nation fit into demand? Jin, I've seen this. It depends on the company. 326 00:25:39.930 --> 00:25:43.950 I've personally overseen marketing automation before as a director of 327 00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:48.920 demand. Jin, I've seen it lived centrally and ops team. So, like the 328 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.790 organ structure stuff depends really on the company, but from a demand Jen's 329 00:25:52.790 --> 00:25:57.090 perspective, you have to know how it works. And you have to be able to 330 00:25:57.090 --> 00:26:01.660 recommend how it needs to be set up in order to show success on your campaigns. 331 00:26:02.040 --> 00:26:06.460 So that's like the benefit and how crucial it is to demand GEN marketers. 332 00:26:06.470 --> 00:26:10.180 If you are going to launch a campaign and you don't know how it needs to be 333 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:14.100 set up in your marketing automation system with your DTM lengths, how 334 00:26:14.100 --> 00:26:18.910 you're tracking it, you're likely going to fall down and and and miss on some 335 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.290 attribution and just overall tracking. Obviously, we all know you can't track 336 00:26:23.290 --> 00:26:26.050 everything but track what you can. And 337 00:26:27.490 --> 00:26:35.760 do you think automation is the one, um, technology that is going to help or not 338 00:26:35.770 --> 00:26:40.290 over the next year? Is it the missing links that's gonna make everybody more 339 00:26:40.290 --> 00:26:45.300 productive or I don't really think it's the missing link. I think you can only 340 00:26:45.300 --> 00:26:49.650 automate so much and especially with what's going on with a lot of the 341 00:26:49.650 --> 00:26:52.940 privacy laws and a lot of stuff. Google's changing and Facebook's 342 00:26:52.940 --> 00:26:58.490 changing. With IOS 14, it's going to get more challenging to track and 343 00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:02.680 automate things, so I don't think it's going to be like the missing piece of 344 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:07.580 the puzzle. I just think you have to know where it fits in and when to use 345 00:27:07.580 --> 00:27:12.220 it, but I don't think it's the end all be all. All right, We are right at our 346 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:15.970 time. Thank you so much for your question. Randi. Sydney, if there are 347 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:20.800 folks listening on GDP growth for here in the live audience, I want to stay 348 00:27:20.800 --> 00:27:25.740 connected with you. What's the best way for them to go ahead and do that? Yeah. 349 00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:30.820 My LinkedIn to Sydney waterfall. Feel free to connect and DM or also the 350 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.470 email me at Sydney at refined labs dot com. Awesome. Sidney, thank you so much. 351 00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:40.680 Dan. Leslie. Randy, thank you so much for joining up here. And if you're 352 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.620 listening on GDP growth and you're not following the BDB Growth club on 353 00:27:44.620 --> 00:27:48.310 clubhouse, make sure to do that. Also follow. Dan and myself were doing the 354 00:27:48.310 --> 00:27:52.800 marketing at noon room Monday to Friday at noon eastern time all the way 355 00:27:52.800 --> 00:27:56.990 through March. And we'll probably do it into April as well. But really excited 356 00:27:56.990 --> 00:28:00.630 about this again. Sidney, thank you so much for your time today. And I really 357 00:28:00.630 --> 00:28:04.360 look forward to seeing you all hear tomorrow. 358 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:09.920 For the longest time, I was asking people to leave a review of GDP growth 359 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:14.370 in apple podcasts. But I realized that was kind of stupid because leaving a 360 00:28:14.370 --> 00:28:19.530 review is way harder than just leaving a simple rating. So I'm changing my 361 00:28:19.530 --> 00:28:23.230 tune a bit. Instead of asking you to leave a review, I'm just gonna ask you 362 00:28:23.230 --> 00:28:27.270 to go. To be be growth in apple podcasts, scroll down until you see the 363 00:28:27.270 --> 00:28:30.930 ratings and reviews section and just tap the number of stars you want to 364 00:28:30.930 --> 00:28:36.560 give us no review necessary Super easy. And I promise it will help us out a ton. 365 00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:40.750 If you want a copy of my book content based networking, just shoot me a text 366 00:28:40.760 --> 00:28:45.300 after you leave the rating and I'll send on your way. Text me at 4074 and I 367 00:28:45.300 --> 00:28:49.060 know 33 to 8.