#CX 73: A Systematic Approach to Reducing Friction w/ Anthony Coundouris

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:10.710 The full cues framework is. It is a decision making framework and and a 2 00:00:10.789 --> 00:00:14.429 sense what I what I sort of realized. What's is that siles is not 3 00:00:14.630 --> 00:00:20.550 the responsibility of the seals bake, but it's an organizational goal. A simple 4 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:24.739 four part framework to make things more simple and clear for your team members and, 5 00:00:24.899 --> 00:00:30.059 as a consequence, remove friction from your customers experience. That's what you 6 00:00:30.179 --> 00:00:34.899 get today on the CX series of B Tob Growth. It's a for quadrant 7 00:00:34.939 --> 00:00:39.490 framework. quadrant one, who we serve, quadrant to what we serve, 8 00:00:39.890 --> 00:00:44.810 quadrant three, who we are, and quadrant for how we serve. The 9 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:49.289 designer of this framework, Anthony Candorus, also wrote a book that breaks it 10 00:00:49.369 --> 00:00:54.399 down further. His Book and his business are called run frictionless and he delivers 11 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.679 on this promise. My name is Ethan Butte. I was happy to host 12 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.799 this conversation. I host the CX series here on B Tob Growth, I 13 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:07.870 host the customer experience podcast and I'm chief evangelist at a software company called bomb 14 00:01:07.950 --> 00:01:11.629 bomb. I know you'll get a ton of value from Anthony's insights and I 15 00:01:11.790 --> 00:01:17.390 know you'll find it interesting where he's recording this conversation from and that's right off 16 00:01:17.469 --> 00:01:23.980 the top. Here we go. Friction is a customer experience killer. So 17 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:27.939 today we're talking about how to run frictionless with the gentleman who wrote the book 18 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:32.890 on it. Really, it's called run frictionless and it offers a smart, 19 00:01:32.930 --> 00:01:38.409 systematic approach to creating in keeping customers. Our guests brings a decade of experience 20 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:44.569 consulting, technology and SASS companies, with an emphasis on early stages and a 21 00:01:44.689 --> 00:01:49.599 focus on automated sales and marketing systems that produce predictable revenue. He's the founder 22 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:55.560 of two companies, including one called run friction less. Anthony Conduras, welcome 23 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:00.560 to the customer experience podcast. Thanks very much as having me here. Yeah, 24 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:04.430 I'm excited for the conversation. I really enjoyed the read and I'm looking 25 00:02:04.430 --> 00:02:07.469 forward to getting into the four quadrants. So the conversation is going to be 26 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.830 kind of organized the way that you organized the book, which I'm sure is 27 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:15.430 the way you organize some of your consulting engagements. But before we get going, 28 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:19.740 you're from Australia and you've worked extensively in Southeast Asia. Where are you 29 00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:23.860 right now and what's the coronavirus situation for you it. I was working on 30 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:31.729 some projects in Vietnam when the bad news was announced and we evacuated immediately and 31 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:37.210 hit a small little town in Thailand and the south, near the border of 32 00:02:37.770 --> 00:02:40.289 Malaysia, and that's where I'm hauled up at the moment. I'm living in 33 00:02:40.330 --> 00:02:46.719 a very rule existence and the water I'm drinking today is from a well and 34 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:50.919 the food I the save being was from our God. And Wow, what 35 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:55.680 an interesting situation. Are you there? What's the setup for you'll well, 36 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.150 we just didn't think we could trust the Vietnamese government to tell us the truth 37 00:03:00.189 --> 00:03:02.870 about what was happening with the virus. As soon as it was announced, 38 00:03:02.909 --> 00:03:07.789 we left and we headed back to my ladies hometown. It's a place call 39 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:13.860 yeah, she decides to no one knows it. It's not a tourist destination 40 00:03:14.099 --> 00:03:16.300 and that's why we haven't had a single case of the coronavirus. But we're, 41 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:20.580 like you were, lockdown. No one's allowed to go to the office, 42 00:03:20.659 --> 00:03:24.979 has coffee shops are all closed, tunes are closed. It's it's bordered 43 00:03:25.099 --> 00:03:29.849 home, right. Yeah. Well, I appreciate making time for me and 44 00:03:29.889 --> 00:03:32.530 I'm glad you found a nice, quiet, safe spot and it's probably a 45 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:37.810 really ill my assumption and hope for you is that you look back several years 46 00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:40.919 from now and be appreciative for this unique experience. Yeah, I think one 47 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.840 one of the things that a lot of my friends have commented on is how 48 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:49.240 much quality times is giving with their families. Perhaps that's doing the same for 49 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.039 me to eat and yeah, good for you. So let's get started properly. 50 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.349 I always like to start with your thoughts around customer experience. When I 51 00:03:58.469 --> 00:04:01.389 see customer experience, what does that mean to you, Anthony? I used 52 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:06.069 to think that customer experience was something that was very divorced from sales, that 53 00:04:06.189 --> 00:04:09.669 it was a something that was tapped on to the end, like you said, 54 00:04:09.669 --> 00:04:11.580 of build a business. And then everyone's is, oh my God, 55 00:04:11.659 --> 00:04:15.379 we need a customer experience. Rightly gone to sort of add it right all, 56 00:04:15.420 --> 00:04:17.899 we got it now, good up, so glad we have that covered. 57 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.740 And I used to think like that, like so many people, and 58 00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:26.370 then what we'd be getting to realize our research team was there is a strong 59 00:04:26.569 --> 00:04:32.209 correlation between sales and predicular, wherever you and customer experience, that is, 60 00:04:32.610 --> 00:04:36.089 the more improvement you can make in the way that you deliver a service or 61 00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:42.040 product or a customer, the more likely layout of by product, and hence 62 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:46.519 the reason why I can prove sales awesome. I agree. It is obviously 63 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.120 not attack on. It needs to be designed from step one and it's an 64 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.550 integrated thing and, frankly, that's why we're doing the show, is to 65 00:04:54.589 --> 00:04:59.430 figure out how to make sure we can connect leadership and strategy and decisionmaking at 66 00:04:59.430 --> 00:05:03.269 a high level with sales, marketing, CS and all of the other teams 67 00:05:03.310 --> 00:05:10.019 and functions that are responsible for creating and delivering the experience, because the experience 68 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:15.379 starts sometimes before you even have a customer, and so as does your book. 69 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:18.339 So talk before we get into it. When did you decide to organize 70 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:23.970 your thoughts into run frictionless and how did that go for you? What was 71 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:29.410 the writing process like? It was it was horrendous because I had no production 72 00:05:29.529 --> 00:05:33.250 methodology, because I will the first time Alltha. I've never written a book 73 00:05:33.329 --> 00:05:38.759 before, and so I just I told myself at all I can do this 74 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:43.399 in six months and it took longer. So I had to go through a 75 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:50.069 process of hacking my work methodology and reverse engineering from the way that I would 76 00:05:50.069 --> 00:05:56.029 build a sales process for a company into something that was digestible in a hundred 77 00:05:56.029 --> 00:05:58.870 and fifty pages, and that's where the for Q was born. The fork 78 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:01.750 you didn't exist before that. I just did it unconsciously, you know, 79 00:06:02.189 --> 00:06:06.379 but I found it so difficult to explain it to people until I sat down 80 00:06:06.699 --> 00:06:11.139 and said, okay, I'm going to put pain to paper. How do 81 00:06:11.259 --> 00:06:15.899 I explain this in a rational way that makes sense? Excellent. Good thinking 82 00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:19.129 is good writing and good writing is good thinking. So I'm glad you went 83 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.649 through the process. I found it highly digestible. Before we dive into each 84 00:06:24.689 --> 00:06:28.370 of them, can you just give us an overview of the four quadrants and 85 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:30.649 I'll just read them off really quickly. Q one is who we serve, 86 00:06:31.290 --> 00:06:38.120 Q two is what we serve, q three is who we are and q 87 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.399 four is how we serve. Can you just give it an overview of those 88 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.399 and kind of how they relate to one another? Yeah, sure. Even 89 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:50.310 so, the for queues framework is it is a decision making framework and and 90 00:06:50.509 --> 00:06:55.269 a sense what I what I sort of realized was is that sales is not 91 00:06:55.470 --> 00:07:00.350 the responsibility of a salespeople. It's an organizational goal. And what you quickly 92 00:07:00.509 --> 00:07:05.860 find is with the forques is that this recognizes and pulls together the entire organization 93 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:11.339 to get behind the salespeople, so the salespeople become just the tip of the 94 00:07:11.379 --> 00:07:15.730 iceberg. If I was just to give you a quick overview or say what 95 00:07:15.089 --> 00:07:19.009 each of those quadrants are, quadred one, who we serve, you really 96 00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:25.089 focuses on customer profiles, Quadron to, what we serve is what you're serving 97 00:07:25.129 --> 00:07:28.329 to quadrant one, that tends to be a product or of service in most 98 00:07:28.410 --> 00:07:32.600 situations. And quatum three, which is which is who we are, is 99 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:38.720 really ubiquitous, unlike say, quadrant one and quadrant two, where you can 100 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:43.040 get a fit between quadrant one and quadrant two. quadrant three is about our 101 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.629 beliefs and the corporate identity and it works across all of the three quadrants. 102 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:49.230 And the last one, of course, is probably one of your favorites, 103 00:07:49.790 --> 00:07:55.350 quadrant for, which is how we serve the folkses on a precisely one of 104 00:07:55.430 --> 00:08:00.740 the interactions required to create a customer. So let's get a little bit into 105 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:03.500 queue one, who we serve. Again, it's it's the customer, it's 106 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:09.139 persona, it's the ICP quadrant. Maybe provide one or two takeaways for people 107 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:13.490 here. Yeah, sure, you know, one of the most interesting things 108 00:08:13.569 --> 00:08:18.689 about quadrant one is how so few organizations, when I walk into talk to 109 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:24.490 them about what it is that they who they serve, they essentially just give 110 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:28.879 me a very generic explanation. We just serve enter prize or we serve small 111 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.639 business owners. I've even heard CEO say to me we just serve anyone, 112 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:39.639 anyone who buys. Okay, right, and I laughed because in the back 113 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.269 of my mind is I've never met this person. Call anyone. Right, 114 00:08:43.549 --> 00:08:46.990 I've met Tom and Sally and and Harry, but I've never met this person. 115 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:52.269 Call anyone. It's just it's awesome person who just buys everything, since 116 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:56.820 you have to make or this person who introduces herself for himself as the enterprise, 117 00:08:58.419 --> 00:09:01.700 like there's such a decision, like you're one of the things that I 118 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:05.779 think a lot of organizations can do is spend a lot more time, first 119 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:11.049 of all, just trying to analyze and think about who they are serving and 120 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:13.490 not just talking about age and demographics and all that sort of stuff, but 121 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:20.850 looking more at really discernible significant data points like perhaps their maturity or the sophistication 122 00:09:22.009 --> 00:09:28.120 and looking at asymmetrical ways of measuring that that maybe they competitors are not using. 123 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.200 It's really interesting. I one of the things I really enjoyed about q 124 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.360 one was the discipline of it. I'm going to read you one of your 125 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:37.909 quote from from your own chapter and maybe give me a response to it, 126 00:09:39.190 --> 00:09:41.309 and I've got one of these free to the quadurants. By the way, 127 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:48.830 the customer profile is a mutual understanding between the sales force and customer service about 128 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:52.980 who is allowed to become a customer. Yeah, because you know, when 129 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:56.860 you're scaling up and you're trying to free yourself of the sales pro as a 130 00:09:56.940 --> 00:10:03.980 founder, if you start paying sales commissions to any profile that a salesperson brings 131 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:07.529 you, well, of course that's exactly what they'll do. They'll bring you 132 00:10:07.610 --> 00:10:13.929 anybody. And I started to see like in some organizations where with so the 133 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:18.169 customers we would succeed, like we have success for say, transaction, plasticty 134 00:10:18.210 --> 00:10:22.039 days, and then many other profiles in which case the success rate was very, 135 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.879 very low. What you start to figure out is, is that really 136 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:30.879 the product? Yes, technically could serve a lot of profiles, but really 137 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.519 you know that there's only one or two that perhaps it's really optimized for to 138 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.950 work well. You know, let one of the questions I always ask the 139 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:43.710 salespeople is the sales managers is that. Look, if you serve this profile, 140 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:46.629 whoever it might be, will you get a positive review? Doesn't necessarily 141 00:10:46.710 --> 00:10:50.860 mean that they're going to write something positive, but they must say something positive. 142 00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:52.659 And if you know in your heart they're not going to give you a 143 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:58.340 positive review, for goodness sakes, don't serve them. Right, just because 144 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.299 you can close it doesn't mean that you should. Because, to your point 145 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:07.649 here, if you can't see retention, potentially expansion, positive reviews, positive 146 00:11:07.649 --> 00:11:13.730 word of mouth, referrals, etc. You're probably doing a disservice to both 147 00:11:13.809 --> 00:11:16.889 you and to the customer. Yeah, because you know there's someone out there 148 00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:24.080 right now who really needs your services. And if you're squandering your time serving 149 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.799 customers who are never going to give you a positive review, who are going 150 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.879 to hassle you for refunds, who are going to give you the wrong intelligence 151 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.789 to try quadron to, why are you doing this when there's customers right now 152 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:37.230 who really need your organization and in your cell saying they're the ones you have 153 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:43.350 to focus on? Yeah, it's. So who we serve obviously critically matters. 154 00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:46.299 Let's move to quadrant to and that is the what we serve that product 155 00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:50.019 in the future quadrant. Obviously this one's closely related to q one, but 156 00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:56.779 maybe share a couple big ideas in the second quadrant. Yeah, one of 157 00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:01.009 the big takeaways I've had in quadrant too, is when I talk to CEOS 158 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:05.529 and sales leaders in organizations, one of the things I asked them is what 159 00:12:05.929 --> 00:12:09.490 I use selling? What do you serve the quadrant one, and what I 160 00:12:09.610 --> 00:12:13.929 mean by that is, could you describe the features in the benefits? It's 161 00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:16.039 all write this down, and then what all then do is is and perhaps 162 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:24.000 to a friction test where I'll interrogate the online chat the telephony people, the 163 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.120 people who answer their email, and then I'll compare the results of what people 164 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:33.309 are selling and telling me. And inevitably what we find is really inconsistent and 165 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:39.789 wild differences day to day and from organization to organization about what we sell, 166 00:12:41.070 --> 00:12:43.740 even though I'm told nine times out of ten we know exactly what we're selling, 167 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:48.860 we know what the product is. Yeah, so that disconnect is obviously 168 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:54.620 highly, highly problematic. One of my favorite things in this section was you 169 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:58.929 know especially. I think this is super relevant to software. I think most 170 00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:01.929 people can relate to it, but I'm sure it relates to a variety of 171 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.450 other businesses as well. But I'll quote you and then kind of talk about 172 00:13:05.450 --> 00:13:07.370 some of the problems that fall out of it, and I love your like 173 00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:13.759 what drove you to include this, and it is to avoid future cell because 174 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:20.080 it introduces friction, it leads customer expectations. You wind up creating bespoke software 175 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.159 people that can now defer the buying decision because you're promising something that's going to 176 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950 be built and delivered in the future. It makes the sale conditional in a 177 00:13:28.029 --> 00:13:33.509 way, like I'll buy it if it were when, and it undervalues what 178 00:13:33.669 --> 00:13:39.230 you currently offered. It undervalues what you serve today. Yeah, because so 179 00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:43.820 often the reason that that the organization contacted you to start the conversation, they 180 00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:48.139 actually forget the benefits. And now and then the sales team actually going back 181 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:54.419 and reiterating those really important features which are in the product right now. That 182 00:13:56.450 --> 00:14:00.970 reinforcing those and reminding the organization this is why you should buy us, they 183 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:07.289 will essentially open up their order book and start to take down and the what 184 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:09.889 needs to be in the products of the customers, like let's feel this in 185 00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:13.799 real time together, you know, like manufacturing companies got this right such a 186 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:20.039 long time ago. Like they stamp everything. They talk about the limitations of 187 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.710 their products. Every time that they send out information. They shift things with 188 00:14:24.950 --> 00:14:28.470 to explaining to you not just what it does, but they say with with 189 00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:33.190 unequivocably what it doesn't do, which is part of the education to the customer. 190 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:39.500 And coming back to what you're saying before about future cell, I'm sure 191 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:43.940 you've seen it yourself eat then. Know you've done consulting before. It's where, 192 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:46.700 if you're in the early stages of the startup it's not so bad because 193 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:50.379 the consequences are very low. But imagine for a moment you're now. You're 194 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:56.809 now scale up, adding shareholders, customers, staff. People keep hearing and 195 00:14:56.009 --> 00:15:00.850 mixing sales messages with the vision of the company. Is opposed what's coming in 196 00:15:00.970 --> 00:15:05.169 a couple of months pretty soon. Now everybody believes what's in the future is 197 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:09.799 what it's selling right now, and that's when this problems of these conditional moving 198 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.759 targets begin, where custom says, hang on a moment. You promised that 199 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.279 it would be there. It's not. I'm not going to buy it. 200 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.559 Go and build it. Future Stuf can happen because of a variety of problems. 201 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.909 One of the worst, though, is when it's kind of meet up 202 00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:26.990 on the spot and word to it in order to a drendu stale. That's 203 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:30.590 like imminent right. That may or may not be the right person and it's 204 00:15:30.710 --> 00:15:33.309 definitely not the product that you that you have today. Is that you're you're 205 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:39.019 promising on the spot something just to kind of keep the conversation going. Yeah, 206 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:41.259 I mean legitimately, though, you know what the discipline I try to 207 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:46.980 introduce an organizations and say book product people are the only ones who are allowed 208 00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:50.929 to write those products at sheets and in the marketing and the sales people can 209 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.289 then draw on that and the road map, which details what's coming in, 210 00:15:54.610 --> 00:16:00.250 you know, future quarters. I say to the organization it should be absolutely 211 00:16:00.929 --> 00:16:03.809 like locked away and not talked about, because the problem is is that we 212 00:16:03.889 --> 00:16:07.799 suffer a buy us where you might just hear around the water cooler a fature 213 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.440 which is being released the Sus. People who as listening to that will interpret 214 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:17.679 that as being in the in the present tense, not in the future and 215 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.029 we'll go out and sell it in the present tense. Yeah, and to 216 00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:22.789 your point two, and then we'll then we'll move on. But to your 217 00:16:22.830 --> 00:16:26.710 point, you know, it undervalues what you have today. It's so interesting, 218 00:16:26.789 --> 00:16:30.669 like we're so like I've been at I've been at bomb, bomb for 219 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:33.379 over eight and a half years, and so, like, I'm deep in 220 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:41.340 and it's easy to take for granted some of the most basic features, benefits, 221 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:45.179 opportunities, use cases that people are getting massive, massive value out of 222 00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:49.529 and in you you just stay focused on what's new, what's hot, what's 223 00:16:49.610 --> 00:16:53.169 fun to talk about? What's this this thing we've been thinking about our planning 224 00:16:53.610 --> 00:16:56.970 for for months or four years and now it's finally about to come to pass, 225 00:16:57.009 --> 00:17:03.600 and so there's this constant future orientation and undervaluing, even internally, of 226 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.240 how you can benefit people. Yeah, a good point. It's up to 227 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.599 it's really a discipline, you know, if anything. But the one of 228 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.910 the two things I talked about in the book is just sell what's in the 229 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:18.950 way house, you know, I try to bring it back to the way 230 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:22.269 manufacturing company side. They really brutal, you know, like they like listen, 231 00:17:22.390 --> 00:17:26.029 man, it's in black and it's in red. You want it or 232 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:33.980 not? You know of this weird peepy selling software could is brutal and actually 233 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:37.019 they probably would get the order just by being so confident. I thought you 234 00:17:37.059 --> 00:17:41.339 were to see black or white, but black and red slid put the points 235 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.059 the same. It's like this is what we have, would you like the 236 00:17:44.180 --> 00:17:48.049 Bat? Awesome. So I you know, I like q three and Q 237 00:17:48.329 --> 00:17:51.809 for. Actually, I like all of that. I like the framework. 238 00:17:51.849 --> 00:17:55.410 That's why we're having this conversation. But q three in particular is really, 239 00:17:55.450 --> 00:17:59.480 really interesting. It's who we are, kind of the the brand quadrant, 240 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.079 and so share a little bit, share maybe the top two or three things 241 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.400 that you really find to be problematic or exciting or interesting as you're consulting people 242 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.440 around the themes in who we are. So I think that a lot of 243 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:19.309 organizations today realized that customers birationally from quadrant one out of Quadron two. Hence 244 00:18:19.349 --> 00:18:22.829 a quadrant one quadron two fit. So they, you know, they'll look 245 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:27.019 at the features, they look at the limitations, they think about the workarounds 246 00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:30.579 and they compare different vendors and they try to come to a rational decision. 247 00:18:32.539 --> 00:18:36.380 Now he's really interesting play though important. Three is about who we are. 248 00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:41.019 In particular, one of the levels that it operates on is around this idea 249 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.930 of beliefs, which is based on cultural identity. So I'll team get a 250 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:51.210 lot of understanding about cultural identification and the way in which we operate as tribes 251 00:18:51.289 --> 00:18:55.960 in the sense of belonging them. Yet right, he's something interesting. Some 252 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.640 of the research that we've done suggested seventy percent of buying this se is not 253 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:06.640 out of quadrant two but out of quadrant three. So quote three. You 254 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:10.390 know if you struck a quadrant one, quodun three fit if you hear this 255 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:15.309 from a customer. I've been telling people this for years. Finally somebody has 256 00:19:15.430 --> 00:19:18.470 built the product that I've been talking about. Thank you so much for listening 257 00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:23.819 to me. So seventy percent of buying decisions are made out of quadrant three, 258 00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:26.859 which is this idea of shared beliefs. I'm going to read one of 259 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:32.579 my favorite sections in the book. Sharing beliefs sets in motion a set of 260 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:38.289 irrational buying forces that are near impossible for a competitor to mimic. The irrational 261 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:45.130 buying force is so strong that even when sales, product and operations, people 262 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:49.369 are screwing up, customers keep buying because they believe in the brand. I 263 00:19:49.490 --> 00:19:55.000 love this idea to two ideas in particular, and they're obviously in a related 264 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:57.720 this shared belief, like the way we see the world as a team and 265 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:03.200 as a company is the same way that our customers see the world's potentially, 266 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.519 and so this is this kind of shared belief in this identity piece. And 267 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.309 then this irrational buying force, which is what I think you were talking about 268 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:14.190 in that setup, which is it's not a que one or a queue to 269 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:18.109 decision. It's not this rational decision, but there are irrational buying forces. 270 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:22.980 That I think speaks to, I guess, at a high level, kind 271 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:25.619 of the dual theory of the mind, the idea that we make our decisions 272 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:30.740 emotionally and then we back up, but we back ourselves up rationally. And 273 00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:34.140 so talk a little bit about this, this interplay of irrational buying forces and 274 00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:38.250 shared beliefs and maybe even, you know, to that second line of that 275 00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:42.930 I quoted. There the grace that were given by our customers even when we're 276 00:20:42.930 --> 00:20:48.329 screwing up, because they believe. Yeah, okay, thanks Ethan. You 277 00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:52.079 know, quadrants one and two are not very defensible. Like I've had arguments 278 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.839 and CEOS about FAQ's. You know they want to put up fa us because 279 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.720 they know that competitors will reverse engineer back out of a fake us in terms 280 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.589 and conditions to figure out even how the product was built. We know quadron 281 00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:07.869 two is not defensible, and yet so much emphasis is put on product. 282 00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:11.430 Like when people are talking about I want to increase my price, I say 283 00:21:11.589 --> 00:21:15.109 just add more features. Right. Of course it's not the case because the 284 00:21:15.269 --> 00:21:19.380 customer doesn't know the product is any better because they haven't bought the product yet. 285 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:22.940 And what retailers told us a long time ago. They said, look, 286 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:26.539 all you need to do is just emphasize a little bit more around your 287 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:30.700 packaging, which happened to be a buying queue to quadrant to. So quadrant 288 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:36.089 three is a buying q to the quality that's coming in quadrant to. And 289 00:21:36.210 --> 00:21:38.690 then this concept to share beliefs. It's rather interesting. We saw a really 290 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:44.089 recent examples. You remember the launch of the Test La Truck? Yeah, 291 00:21:44.210 --> 00:21:49.160 what happened during the product lawn tray rate? The the shattered window, right, 292 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.880 so you launch shuts the window. So you could say well, and 293 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.720 in fact the automotive channel the state. They said, hey, bad product, 294 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.880 a you know, bad quadrant. To Day, you know, this 295 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.910 is an example of one of these startups bad products. You know, we 296 00:22:02.950 --> 00:22:07.029 really shouldn't be listening to them. Yet despite that, at the close of 297 00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:11.430 business the following day, Tesla Post a press release saying the receipt over a 298 00:22:11.509 --> 00:22:15.099 hundred thousand orders of the truck. And I just watch this video saying this 299 00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:19.099 is going to be not a demonstration of a bad product they but what it 300 00:22:19.299 --> 00:22:22.380 means to have a shared believe with a customer. They weren't buying at a 301 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.700 quadrant. That completely forgave him the like. You know what, man, 302 00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:32.049 we get all that like because every every company has a bad product. The 303 00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:36.250 difference is, will they crucify you or they forgive you? It speaks again 304 00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:41.569 to that irrationality. And I also like the you started with something that, 305 00:22:41.650 --> 00:22:45.079 I add, overlooked or failed to mension, which is this. This is 306 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.960 the defensible part of the business. Let's not underestimate how hard it is to 307 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:53.200 achieve a belief. Look, even you and I can have a belief that 308 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:57.480 no one else shares and we call crazy people and they lock us up right 309 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:02.549 we're delivered to the asylum and then that's where we stay there. But there 310 00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:07.309 are other people who resonate right and become leaders and then, because people are 311 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:08.589 listening to them, a game. And I get this. I know what 312 00:23:08.710 --> 00:23:11.900 you're saying. I feel the same way about this. I'm going to I'm 313 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:15.500 going to enjoy. We're going to have a quadrant, one, quadran three 314 00:23:15.579 --> 00:23:19.220 feed here. And if you can get that kind of fit going in your 315 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:23.579 organization, it's so difficult to mimic because it's inside out. You see, 316 00:23:25.099 --> 00:23:27.730 you have to hide the same people who believe in the same thing, because 317 00:23:29.049 --> 00:23:33.170 otherwise, as soon as the customer pisses your your organization and gets past the 318 00:23:33.250 --> 00:23:38.049 marketing Venia and dig into Your Business, they're going to find those people who 319 00:23:38.089 --> 00:23:41.289 don't believe and then they're going to get you even. They're going to say, 320 00:23:41.329 --> 00:23:45.039 hang on, you sold me on a belief and you're the only guy 321 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.279 in the company that believes that and the rest of you don't, and I 322 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:56.069 feel really deceived in the sand or scary or potentially harmful. Aspect of that 323 00:23:56.390 --> 00:24:00.990 is that you might not even say that consciously. As a customer, you 324 00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:06.829 just feel this disconnected and you feel this distrust and you can't necessarily articulate it, 325 00:24:06.910 --> 00:24:10.019 but you're like, this isn't what I thought this was. These people 326 00:24:10.059 --> 00:24:12.539 aren't who I thought they were. This isn't what I was expecting or hoping 327 00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:15.819 for. And you might not even say those things consciously. You just kind 328 00:24:15.819 --> 00:24:19.339 of like, you know from the company perspective, you know, you swipe 329 00:24:19.339 --> 00:24:23.569 the credit card once and then you just kind of disappear. Yeah, because 330 00:24:23.569 --> 00:24:26.529 it's not from quadron to the can't put their finger on the concert. It 331 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:32.049 was a feature. or You lied about a limitation and it's really high. 332 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:34.690 You quite right. You probably wouldn't even see it in an iff like a 333 00:24:34.809 --> 00:24:40.440 feedback form, somebody replying back about they just wouldn't know how to articulate this, 334 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:45.079 but boy did they feel it in their heart rate. And it's and 335 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:51.680 again this is this is the dark side of the irrational buy forlors system. 336 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.950 This is the irrational quitting force or similar whatever. It's the flip side of 337 00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.470 that, so to for is how we serve. It's the it's really is 338 00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.869 the customer experience quadrant. So what are a couple things folk should take away 339 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:08.220 from how we serve? First of all, let's make sure we just we 340 00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:12.819 have the definitive number of interactions that are required to create a customer. So 341 00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:18.700 our research showed us that if you're serving small business owners, you're talking between 342 00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:22.769 sort of ten to fifteen interactions and if you're serving decision makers, enterprise companies, 343 00:25:22.809 --> 00:25:26.769 you supporting twenty five up words of say fifteen interactions. And now what 344 00:25:26.930 --> 00:25:30.809 you can really start to do when you do a quadrant one, quadred four 345 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:33.890 fits, you can start to really look at the cost of service. You 346 00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:37.079 can say, well, it's a fifty dollar interaction to twenty five years interaction. 347 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.440 Start adding them up and you start to see really what it costs to 348 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:45.279 serve that customer. So this, I think, probably one takeaway. But 349 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.559 Ethan, he's another one. That kind of data point that I think that 350 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.390 a lot of the readers are listens today perhaps not tracking in quadrant one they 351 00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:56.990 ought to be, and I think we probably come to it at a moment. 352 00:25:56.029 --> 00:26:02.029 That's that one called customer expiry. It's a really interesting data play and 353 00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:04.579 let me explain how we came about it, how it's we fumbled upon it. 354 00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:08.180 So it happened in two thousand and fifteen. We were asked by a 355 00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:12.700 CEO of assass start up to find out why is it that our prospects are 356 00:26:12.819 --> 00:26:17.500 walking away from our pipeline through our competitors? So what we looked at? 357 00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:19.930 It was who looked at about six months worth of data and we got our 358 00:26:21.009 --> 00:26:25.369 research team to call these individuals to say, okay, what what happened during 359 00:26:25.410 --> 00:26:30.930 the prospecting stage? He's interesting figure. Fifty percent of them didn't buy anything, 360 00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:37.039 and yet we confirmed that they are legitimate buyers by checking their profiles on 361 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:40.359 Linkedin. We got back to the sea and said, well, I don't 362 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:44.920 know if it's a competitive problem because fifty percent did nothing, but even boy 363 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.910 and he said, well, could you go on sign about why? And 364 00:26:48.029 --> 00:26:52.109 we did, and so we probe deeper. It's some telephony survey. Turns 365 00:26:52.190 --> 00:26:57.829 out these customers actually think the whole industry suck. I think that's so much 366 00:26:57.950 --> 00:27:03.579 friction in order for them to make a buying decisions they would rather suck eggs, 367 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:08.660 continue using excel and never hear about these organizations again. And we were 368 00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:11.940 able to figure out a number just by the questions that we asked them. 369 00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:18.690 And it turns out that this group had a signed, consciously unconsciously, between 370 00:27:18.809 --> 00:27:22.609 fourteen to eighteen days in which they had to make a buying decision and their 371 00:27:22.650 --> 00:27:26.690 organization. So when we went back to the sea, we said, well, 372 00:27:26.809 --> 00:27:30.400 do you know when you decide to read Asign Quadron for actually, don't 373 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.079 need to worry about your confetters. Just focus on one data point called customer 374 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:38.480 expired. For Goodness Sakes, to develop a customer experience that can be delivered 375 00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:42.519 in fourteen days and you'll probably make a lot of money. Interesting. So 376 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:47.230 talk, just go a little bit more at the sport team to eighteen days. 377 00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:51.710 What needs to happen in that window? Okay, so the number really 378 00:27:51.789 --> 00:27:56.190 will change from you know, like whoever's listening to podcast right, it's going 379 00:27:56.190 --> 00:28:00.539 to be different. We're seeing buying decisions happening. It's short at seven minutes 380 00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:03.619 all the way to six months, right, and it just happens to be 381 00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.259 that example is fourteen days. That is the early, the middle and the 382 00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:11.579 end game all has to be closed out that it doesn't mean rushing or forcing 383 00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:17.210 or ramming the customer, but those set of interactions, those fifteen interactions, 384 00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:22.849 or is twenty five interactions, all still need to be legitimately delivered within fourteen 385 00:28:22.890 --> 00:28:26.609 to fifteen or eighteen days. So that means you need to start getting pretty 386 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:33.119 creative about how you serve those interactions. What will be automated, what will 387 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.920 be human? What are going to be the different objectives, because you better 388 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.509 make sure that every interaction actually does something, because there's no there's no time 389 00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.430 for wastede you're having a little conversation on the side of the Rod. That's 390 00:28:44.430 --> 00:28:47.630 a little bit talk show. We about about your dog and just catch up 391 00:28:47.710 --> 00:28:49.230 on that. No, no, it's so time for that, because they've 392 00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:52.630 got fourteen days and they're going to run away. They're not going to buy 393 00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:56.380 from anybody. Essentially, the clock is running. Yeah, it's a race, 394 00:28:56.420 --> 00:29:00.299 as you put it to me earlier. Yeah, it really is. 395 00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.500 It really is a race. It's the best way to think about it. 396 00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:06.099 Well, that's that's one of that's the quote that I pulled out of queue 397 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:11.690 four, which is think about achieving the customers goal as a race. And 398 00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:15.609 the reason I like that so much is that it speaks to a theme that 399 00:29:15.690 --> 00:29:18.690 I've been thinking about and talking about and hearing more like the more you pay 400 00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:21.609 attention to something more, the more often you see it, and it's this 401 00:29:21.809 --> 00:29:27.440 idea of owning the customers outcome, not just as like a desired outcome delivered 402 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:33.440 via an appropriate experience, but really owning the customers metrics as if they're your 403 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.119 own and really becoming a partner in their success. And then, of course 404 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.390 there's the race component on top of that. You know, like and do 405 00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:45.150 it within the expiry window. Yeah, I remember talking to a bunch of 406 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:49.190 payments companies in Southeast D Asia and they thought the customers goal, the customers 407 00:29:49.230 --> 00:29:55.019 outcome, was to pass the Ky salver verification process and open up account to 408 00:29:55.099 --> 00:29:59.259 do a crossboard of payment. After we go through talking to them, customers 409 00:29:59.299 --> 00:30:00.779 did. Actually, we don't care about that. We want to make a 410 00:30:02.019 --> 00:30:06.380 transfer today. That's by goal. So if I say it by I've got 411 00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:10.809 folding days to make buying decision. Right, it's not necessary to the goal 412 00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:15.410 that you think. It could be something way more elaborate or the outcome could 413 00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:18.529 be a different kind of metric than we first thought it was. Yeah, 414 00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:22.920 it's not the acquisition of the productor of the service itself and the transaction. 415 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.799 It's obviously, I mean that's just a that is one of your necessary checkpoints 416 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.799 on the route to whatever sought. The customers goal. Yeah, any other 417 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:37.390 high level observations here about the quadrants? Obviously you it sounds like you developed 418 00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:41.910 them as a consequence of organizing some of your your thoughts senior experience for the 419 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:47.710 benefit of again, we should have mentioned the subtitles that it's freeing a founder 420 00:30:47.829 --> 00:30:49.700 from a sales role. But you also did a nice job in the book 421 00:30:49.819 --> 00:30:56.019 of speaking to early stage and, you know, more developed businesses at the 422 00:30:56.019 --> 00:30:59.339 end of each chapter with the important takeaways. Is there anything we didn't cover 423 00:30:59.539 --> 00:31:06.329 here that that you find is either very interesting or provocative or relevant or necessary 424 00:31:06.529 --> 00:31:10.329 for the types of companies that you're working with? When I wrote the fork 425 00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:17.490 cuds, one of my supposed criticisms of dis of frameworks is how stupid they 426 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:21.880 make the reader. They they allow they like project management tools, you know, 427 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.720 assess, do it, the results. Oh Wow, you know, 428 00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.440 that's a framework. Okay, yeah, well, that's true. That's way 429 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.109 too simplistic, you know, and it doesn't allow any creativity. So the 430 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:37.750 FORCUS is rather different. For instance, he than we could start in quadrant 431 00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.069 to toto produce friction as opposed to moving. Don't have to move sequentially from 432 00:31:41.109 --> 00:31:44.549 one, two, three or four. A lot of people starting three, 433 00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:48.019 you know, like a round beliefs, you know. So first of all 434 00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:52.460 there's no starting position and the thing that also like about it is it's a 435 00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:56.180 little bit like a woodworking project. Now let's just say we're building a table 436 00:31:56.259 --> 00:31:59.859 T. get well, to get the various components to fit, sometimes you 437 00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:01.529 need to shave off a little bit here and saw a bit more of that. 438 00:32:01.769 --> 00:32:07.049 It's in the sense you're getting a fit, and agerson would called you 439 00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:09.529 know, he sort of use this world product market fit. You can use 440 00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:14.289 the quadrants the same way. For example, we talked about quadrant three, 441 00:32:14.329 --> 00:32:17.759 quadron forfeit. So you do exult, you develop the belief then you wrap 442 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:22.880 those words and pictures from quadron through around each of those interactions which you design 443 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:28.480 and quadrn for. But he's another interesting play. What about a quadrant one, 444 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.549 two, four fit? So a lot of times salespeople don't know what 445 00:32:31.750 --> 00:32:37.230 to sell next. So I think one of the plays of quadrant for is 446 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:43.589 to intelligently sell the next product from quadrant to to the right person in quadrant 447 00:32:43.630 --> 00:32:45.900 one. Hence the quadrant one, quadrant two, four fit. You could 448 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:50.500 try and get a fit of one to four by saying well, we can 449 00:32:50.539 --> 00:32:57.059 design, you know, individual, very unique customer experiences for each of our 450 00:32:57.220 --> 00:32:59.930 profiles and quadrum one. A lot of us are doing that now. We're 451 00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:04.769 realizing that you can't have generic experiences and quadrant for anymore. But also we 452 00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:09.490 can start to intelligently sell product on quadrant to by playing the same theory really 453 00:33:09.569 --> 00:33:15.720 good. So do you, when you engage with a company, do you 454 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.359 tend to lead with this book so that you have the same language to start 455 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:24.240 with, or do you does it kind of come around? Yeah, it's 456 00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:30.470 interesting. A lot of the feedback that I've been given by the users, 457 00:33:30.509 --> 00:33:32.589 the readers of the book is it create. If anything, it creates a 458 00:33:32.670 --> 00:33:37.670 common vocabulary where it doesn't really matter whether you or the product guy, product 459 00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:44.220 go, the CEO or somebody who's delivering the CX and quadrant for it's really 460 00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:46.500 easy for guys and goes to get together and make a decision. So I 461 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:51.980 like to not make the book a barrier. I don't want to introduce friction 462 00:33:52.059 --> 00:33:53.779 into my own cells process. So what I do is is I give them 463 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:59.930 like a one our quick overview takes them that the power of the full cus 464 00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:02.849 and just get them using the vocabulary and it seems like the I start using 465 00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:07.089 it in their organizations, like the line managers, and pretty soon the people 466 00:34:07.690 --> 00:34:12.639 within the virus functions of the group stop using the same words, which makes 467 00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.360 it easier than to make the changes that we need to later. Yeah, 468 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:20.000 really good. So if you are listening to this episode and you've enjoyed it 469 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.510 a of course, I recommend run frictionless from Anthony. It's a really good 470 00:34:23.550 --> 00:34:29.469 read and I'll also recommend to other episodes of this show. Episode Twenty five 471 00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:32.989 with Brian Gilman, who is the vice president of Solutions Marketing Advantage. That 472 00:34:34.150 --> 00:34:37.230 episode is called it why friction is a customer experience killer and it's a lot 473 00:34:37.269 --> 00:34:43.380 about solutions marketing. And then episode six with my longtime friend, team member 474 00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:46.099 coauthor on Rehumanize Your Business, and he is the CEMO at bomb bomb. 475 00:34:46.380 --> 00:34:52.170 That episode is with Steve Passinelli and we titled it connecting with customers by exploring 476 00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:58.969 a shared belief. We had a share belief conversation back on episode six and 477 00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:01.170 I think this is going to be episode seventy something. I forget where we 478 00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:05.969 are, but yeah, it's really good. So kind this is an awesome 479 00:35:06.010 --> 00:35:07.599 anthony. I really appreciate it. Before I let you go, though, 480 00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:12.039 I always like to give you the chance to think or mention someone who has 481 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.840 had a positive impact on your life or on your career. Yeah, I'd 482 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:22.230 say Andy Walsh. He was the former creative director that wonderment in Sydney and 483 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:27.469 he was. He's one of these beautiful managers where, even under the stress 484 00:35:27.510 --> 00:35:31.190 of a corporate environment, it's still a really human experience working with him and 485 00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:36.019 we're delivering like really big goals, but he's not making a big fuss about 486 00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:38.219 it. He was a he's from the United Kingdom. He's a very gifted 487 00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:44.460 cready director and when I was an upcoming director, I'd sit with him at 488 00:35:44.539 --> 00:35:46.219 seven aim in the morning, get him a coffee, myself a coffee, 489 00:35:46.579 --> 00:35:52.369 open up our laptops and start work together. It was just fascinating listening to 490 00:35:52.449 --> 00:35:55.650 him talk and help us to put together the next piece of work that we'd 491 00:35:55.650 --> 00:36:00.449 be doing for a telco or something. So good. What a great story. 492 00:36:00.849 --> 00:36:04.920 And now, how about a company that you really respect for the way 493 00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.800 that they deliver for you as a customer? Lego beautiful, most definitely. 494 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:16.920 I think Lego. They just they you understand product augrientation without being ridiculous, 495 00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:21.230 you know, like they've they've got such a good hold on their firm group, 496 00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:23.469 on quadrant too, and the way it permeates the whole business. It's 497 00:36:23.550 --> 00:36:28.550 beautiful that their product. I mean even as a young boy using their product 498 00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:32.579 before I really understood anything about quality, it felt like quality when I used 499 00:36:32.619 --> 00:36:36.739 to sit on them ply with other kids, you know, we get around 500 00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.980 and share our Lego sets, and then it was all about the Creatiy, 501 00:36:39.099 --> 00:36:43.699 what you could do with them. It was I really feel like as an 502 00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:47.489 adult it's somehow had a really positive impact on me to young St leading into 503 00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:51.570 my adult love. I think it's done something really good for me their products. 504 00:36:51.610 --> 00:36:54.690 Yeah, I completely agree. And just to the to the quality piece 505 00:36:54.769 --> 00:36:59.130 of it. I had a similar experience in my brother and I have a 506 00:36:59.250 --> 00:37:01.800 brother's two years older than me. We had a lot of legos and a 507 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:06.679 lot of Lego sets, but eventually what wound up happening was that they all 508 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:08.599 wound up in one box and so the sets kind of like, you know, 509 00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.920 have some outer space stuff with like some you know, trees and and 510 00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:16.150 other things, all in one big box and the state in my parents home 511 00:37:16.269 --> 00:37:20.590 and when my wife and I had our son. I got them back out 512 00:37:20.670 --> 00:37:23.150 and I just went through all of it again and all of the products are 513 00:37:23.190 --> 00:37:29.829 still perfectly intact. They don't break and and and they all work with all 514 00:37:29.829 --> 00:37:31.179 of my son's new sets of so, of course, one of the ways 515 00:37:31.219 --> 00:37:36.059 that they've gone to market is, you know, they've done licensing deals with 516 00:37:36.139 --> 00:37:38.619 a bunch of, you know, really popular brands and things, and so 517 00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:44.179 I think my son had some star wars stuff, some Harry Potter stuff, 518 00:37:44.489 --> 00:37:47.969 Lego sets, but they all still work like you can still start the construction 519 00:37:49.050 --> 00:37:52.610 of something new. You know that that doesn't exist in a, you know, 520 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:54.489 in a step by step guide on how to build it, and all 521 00:37:54.530 --> 00:37:59.360 the pieces all work together and they're they're still a wonderful quality. This has 522 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.360 been so funny. Any I really appreciate it. I really like the work 523 00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:05.559 that you do in the way you approach it. I'm glad that you went 524 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.679 through the experience of writing in order to a organize these thoughts but then be 525 00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:13.550 allowed them to be easily shared with people. I assume if someone's listening at 526 00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:16.150 this point they've enjoyed our conversation and may want to follow up with you. 527 00:38:16.190 --> 00:38:19.789 Where would you send people if they wanted to learn more about you, the 528 00:38:19.869 --> 00:38:23.710 work that you do, about run frictionless as a consultancy or run frictionless as 529 00:38:23.710 --> 00:38:28.539 a book? Yeah, I think probably you are well. Run Friction Mostcom, 530 00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:30.699 just one word. That's an easy place. So just check me up 531 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:34.500 on Linkedin if you want to post a link there to my linkedin account. 532 00:38:34.539 --> 00:38:37.500 Of they just want to connect with me and style of Carlog it would great 533 00:38:37.539 --> 00:38:40.300 to share some ID's and some stories. Toge though, super I will do 534 00:38:40.730 --> 00:38:45.289 for folks listening. I do put up right ups of these video clips, 535 00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:52.090 if fully embedded, audio and more, at Bombombcom podcast. That's Bombombcom podcast, 536 00:38:52.210 --> 00:38:57.679 and so if you want to connect with Anthony on Linkedin or if you 537 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.639 want to check out the book or you want to check out the website, 538 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:04.639 all that will be linked up there at Bombombcom podcast. Anthony. Thank you 539 00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.679 again so much and thank you for listening. Thanks very much, Ethan, 540 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.949 for your time and, beside being so patient with me to organize our session 541 00:39:10.989 --> 00:39:15.630 together, I have thoroughly enjoy this Ethan show. Very prepared host. I 542 00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:17.909 really enjoy the session. Thank you, fellow sure, thank you and I'm 543 00:39:17.909 --> 00:39:22.389 glad again you found a really beautiful and safe spot for this time period. 544 00:39:23.110 --> 00:39:25.619 Like I missed to take care of I'll say in touch with you. Thank 545 00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:31.179 you very much. Sounds good, but obviously I was a hundred percent with 546 00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:37.900 Anthony there on the nostalgia around Lego and on the continued quality of the product 547 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:42.449 and experience they deliver. I hope you found his for queues framework or the 548 00:39:42.610 --> 00:39:45.969 For quadrant framework helpful in thinking about the way you are going to market, 549 00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:50.489 the way you're selling and the way that you're serving. If you want more 550 00:39:50.690 --> 00:39:55.840 conversations like these, search the customer experience podcast in your preferred player. The 551 00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.199 customer experience podcast. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you find more 552 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.400 episodes. If you want to see video clips bring these episodes to life, 553 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:10.829 brows more episodes. You can also do that at Bombombcom podcast. That's bomb 554 00:40:12.030 --> 00:40:16.389 Bombcom podcast. Again, my name is Ethan Butte and I thank you so 555 00:40:16.510 --> 00:40:22.699 much for listening to the CX series here on BB growth. One of the 556 00:40:22.820 --> 00:40:28.420 things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It 557 00:40:28.579 --> 00:40:30.699 works really, really well actually. So if you love this show, it 558 00:40:30.699 --> 00:40:35.300 would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And 559 00:40:35.420 --> 00:40:37.530 if you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to 560 00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:40.929 your friend Metta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book, 561 00:40:42.130 --> 00:40:45.610 content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone. You want to know 562 00:40:45.090 --> 00:40:50.079 my cell phone numbers. Four hundred seven, four nine o three hundred and 563 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:54.360 three two eight. Happy texting. I