#CX 55: When Customers Want To Talk To A Human w/ Samantha Stone

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:10.990 Fundam mentally what customer experience really means. It it's all the ways that we 2 00:00:11.230 --> 00:00:18.269 interact with people. The situation was unprecedented, but the lessons are timeless. 3 00:00:18.269 --> 00:00:23.219 This episode of the CX series here on B tob growth is the first conversation 4 00:00:23.300 --> 00:00:29.260 I recorded as the coronavirus pandemic came on. Our guest is Samantha Stone, 5 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:34.579 author of Unleash Possible, a marketing playbook that drives be tob sales, and 6 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:40.649 founder and CMO of the marketing advisory network. She shares tips on Customer Communication 7 00:00:40.850 --> 00:00:47.609 Channels, recent research on chat experiences, live chat versus chat bots when customers 8 00:00:47.770 --> 00:00:51.719 need and want to talk to a human, the power of simple video and 9 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.640 more. My name is Ethan Butt. I host the CX series. I'm 10 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:00.159 chief evangelist at bombomb and Co author of the Best Selling Book Rehumanize Your Business. 11 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:07.629 Here are some helpful insights and great stories about connecting and communicating more effectively 12 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:14.230 with our customers. When your sixty some episodes into a podcast, you're still 13 00:01:14.750 --> 00:01:19.099 full of firsts, and we've got a new first today. Our first return 14 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:23.379 guest after a variety of B Tob Marketing, product marketing and marketing communications roles 15 00:01:23.859 --> 00:01:27.900 are guests. Founded the Marketing Advisory Network, where she serves as CMO. 16 00:01:29.420 --> 00:01:34.049 She's also the author of unleashed possible, a marketing playbook that drives be tob 17 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:38.409 sales. Her first appearance with us was on episode fourteen, which we titled 18 00:01:38.769 --> 00:01:45.370 Balancing Automation, Artificial Intelligence and human relationships. She's now back to talk about 19 00:01:45.689 --> 00:01:49.640 customer communication channels, including the chat experience, the power of video to keep 20 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:56.599 us connected even when we're physically separated, and generally, crisis communication, all 21 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:01.109 through the Lens of the unique circumstances we all find ourselves in with the coronavirus 22 00:02:01.269 --> 00:02:07.629 pandemic. Samantha Stone, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. Well, 23 00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:13.270 I am so honored to be your first return guest. I have so enjoyed 24 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:16.740 our conversation last time and I'm looking forward to having another one again today. 25 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:21.460 Yeah, and a just a quick note before couple things before we get going. 26 00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:24.780 First, you do such a nice job of staying in touch and you 27 00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:31.330 were the, I guess, unintentional creator of the episode with David Merriman Scott, 28 00:02:31.370 --> 00:02:36.129 by sending a copy of fanoccracy over, and so I hope folks check 29 00:02:36.210 --> 00:02:38.169 that one out too. And you know, before we get into customer experience, 30 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:40.530 I think let's just set the scene a little bit. We're recording this 31 00:02:40.810 --> 00:02:46.159 on Mark Sixteen of two thousand and twenty. You're in Massachusetts, I'm in 32 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:51.360 Colorado. Where are you right now with the coronavirus, covid nineteen situation? 33 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.599 You know, I'm glad you brought that up because we were talking about before 34 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:58.479 the show. Ethan. I actually don't think really we can talk about anything 35 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:02.110 else. I think the the reality is that when there are moments of crisis 36 00:03:02.229 --> 00:03:06.990 like we're seeing today and it's widespread, it's global, it's affecting everybody, 37 00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:10.669 to pretend it's normal course of business is just not realistic. People can't think 38 00:03:10.669 --> 00:03:14.699 about what they might eat in six months from now or twelve months from now. 39 00:03:15.139 --> 00:03:16.979 What they thinking about right now is what do I need tomorrow? Maybe? 40 00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:21.979 What do I need this here I'm happy to share sort of very transparently 41 00:03:22.099 --> 00:03:28.250 opening a little bit about myself. I have a lung health condition. The 42 00:03:28.330 --> 00:03:36.210 lung health condition makes me extremely vulnerable to the COVID nineteen disease and virus because 43 00:03:36.250 --> 00:03:38.770 of some of the injections that I take to treat that lung condition were suppress 44 00:03:38.810 --> 00:03:43.319 my immune system. In addition to that, should I get any respiratory infection 45 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:46.479 in including this, I am likely to be one of those people has a 46 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:53.000 very, very severe reaction to that. It's so what is like in my 47 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.909 household right now is a lot of for cautions. My poor son made the 48 00:03:57.990 --> 00:04:01.550 mistake of ordering Burger King through Grubhub, and here I am before you open 49 00:04:01.629 --> 00:04:05.750 the door. Tell them to leave it on the ground. You've already paid. 50 00:04:06.189 --> 00:04:10.300 Here's gloves, pick up the bag. You know I'm really we are, 51 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:14.500 you know, all joking aside. We are being very, very cautious 52 00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:17.500 right now, but we are going outside, we are living in guests, 53 00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:21.339 we're doing no travel, but we're communicating, and one of the great reasons 54 00:04:21.379 --> 00:04:26.250 I'm excited to be talking to you about this during this time is that video 55 00:04:26.490 --> 00:04:30.329 is a way that we're staying connected, not just at work but also with 56 00:04:30.529 --> 00:04:33.410 family. I have a mother and father who drove back from Florida after several 57 00:04:33.449 --> 00:04:38.879 weeks away and because of their age, we're not visiting with them right now 58 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:42.600 and it's really hard to not get my mom and dad a great big hug. 59 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:46.399 But we did do some video chatting and that also made us feel just 60 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.959 a little bit batter that we're still connecting with each other. That's good. 61 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:55.550 Yeah, there is no substitute for real in person connection and nice warm hugs. 62 00:04:55.870 --> 00:04:59.629 They will come again, but it won't be any time very immediately. 63 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.430 We did the same thing here. We still have all the stores and restaurants 64 00:05:02.470 --> 00:05:06.110 are still open, although I know they're closing down elsewhere, and we're all 65 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:11.740 working remotely at bombomb. And first all the events and everything are canceled and 66 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:14.019 we'll kind of get into some of the consequences of that, I think, 67 00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:17.420 to the conversation. But one thing we did spin up within thirty six hours 68 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:20.060 of saying yeah, that's a good idea, let's do it, as we 69 00:05:20.180 --> 00:05:27.050 started offering bombomb absolutely free to all educators so that they could stay facetoface with 70 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:30.769 parents, students, peers and other people important to that process. And as 71 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:34.290 a parent whose son is hanging out at home right now, they just said 72 00:05:34.290 --> 00:05:39.319 two weeks. Basically they doubled spring break and there they'll reassess, but there's 73 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:43.120 not a chance he's going to go back to school physically in the next you 74 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:45.959 know, two weeks. When this, when this initial period is over. 75 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.550 So it's a really interesting time. It's highly, highly fluid and as business 76 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:55.189 operators and practitioners, I think we need to be, as you already offered, 77 00:05:55.230 --> 00:06:00.949 highly sensitive to where our customers and future customers are in where our employees 78 00:06:00.990 --> 00:06:04.060 are just kind of in a headspace and in a legitimate, direct, immediate 79 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:09.100 experience. So let's get into and let's start where we started last times, 80 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:11.660 where we always start here, which is, you know, what thoughts do 81 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:14.540 you have at a high level on on customer experience? What does it mean 82 00:06:14.620 --> 00:06:17.420 to you? What are some of the characteristics? You know, for me, 83 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:21.089 customer experience there's a couple ways of looking at it. So one way 84 00:06:21.089 --> 00:06:27.290 of looking at is a structural with an organization. What's the team that's responsible 85 00:06:27.410 --> 00:06:30.730 for creating an experience with our the people that we sell to and that we 86 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:35.360 serve, and that is, you know, organizationally, done in many different 87 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:42.480 ways by different types of organization. But fundamentally, what customer experience really means? 88 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.910 It's all the ways that we interact with people. It's how they find 89 00:06:46.910 --> 00:06:50.350 out what we do and how they come to our website. It's the tone 90 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:55.430 of the conversations we have with them during a sales process. It's when they 91 00:06:56.029 --> 00:06:59.069 we deliver the service to them. Right. So whether, like me, 92 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:01.019 I might go in and I might be running a workshop or I might be 93 00:07:01.139 --> 00:07:05.699 running a meeting, how I do that as part of the customer experience. 94 00:07:05.819 --> 00:07:11.180 If I'm selling them a physical item, how it's packaged a part of the 95 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:15.339 customer service. When there's a problem, how we respond, it's it's everything 96 00:07:15.379 --> 00:07:21.689 about how the people we serve interact with us. That's what customer experience is 97 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:26.569 all about. I really like it. I think, you know, it's 98 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:30.920 a little bit righter cliche to refer to Simon Sinex start with why, but 99 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.600 you know this. You're in that middle layer of how, in the second 100 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.879 part of that. In that how is something that is so much more difficult 101 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:44.240 to replicate or steal or mimic then the what. The what is very easy 102 00:07:44.310 --> 00:07:46.750 to mimic, and in the how, I think, is the you know 103 00:07:46.230 --> 00:07:53.470 what is the first really good chunk of differentiation in the experience that we're creating. 104 00:07:53.589 --> 00:07:56.750 So you already said it's not business as usual, and it is not. 105 00:07:57.029 --> 00:08:00.819 It's not life as usual either right now in the United States or anywhere 106 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:03.259 else on the globe. So, just to kind of get it going, 107 00:08:03.779 --> 00:08:07.500 what are some of the implications that you see immediately from a business standpoint of 108 00:08:09.339 --> 00:08:13.370 social distancing and, you know, going remote and all the other consequences that 109 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:18.490 were all experiencing right now? I'm glad that you ask that question because there's 110 00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:22.889 a lot that's going on. So some of the things that are affect marketers, 111 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:28.240 for example, are I got in my facebook feed a person who was 112 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.919 promoting and in person event on March twenty four. No, just no, 113 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:35.759 stop right. So that was a really obviously means. Well, you know, 114 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.669 look, I could have chosen to just scroll on past that advertisement not 115 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:45.669 respond, but I actually had a really negative reaction to it. Right. 116 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:48.309 It felt very toned for me. I know that's not the spirit. Technically 117 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.029 they were targeting fewer than twenty five people, they were abiding by the rule 118 00:08:52.070 --> 00:08:56.019 of law, but I didn't feel like they had my best interest at heart. 119 00:08:56.500 --> 00:09:00.700 So we as marked as a look at all the things that we do 120 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:03.179 on a day to day basis and how we're communicating and make sure we're wearing 121 00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:07.860 a sensitive lens that acknowledges it. The other thing that we have to do 122 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:13.090 is you have to realize that are. The way we serve our audience is 123 00:09:13.129 --> 00:09:16.210 going to change. If I am someone who works in an office and I'm 124 00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:20.529 now working remotely, do I have appropriate call routing? For example, I 125 00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.759 have a friend who works for Legal Aid. She's an amazing attorney who dedicates 126 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:28.799 her life to service, and I said to her we'll just phone call people, 127 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.200 like, don't show up to the hospital to meet that. What are 128 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.200 you doing? Like I get all this anxiety and she pointed out to me 129 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:39.190 that she can work from home. Except the translation service that allows her to 130 00:09:39.230 --> 00:09:43.149 communicate with people whose English is not their first or dominant language is not working 131 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:46.389 in her home phone. It only works at our office phone. Right. 132 00:09:46.549 --> 00:09:50.789 So they'll solve for that. They'll fix that. But in all of our 133 00:09:50.830 --> 00:09:54.580 businesses we have lots of things about what we do that we have to think 134 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:58.620 about. What happens when the people who can be remote our remote. We 135 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:03.580 also have to recognize that there's lots of things that can't be done from home. 136 00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:07.100 You know, if you're a first responder, if you're a healthcare worker, 137 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:09.690 if you are working for an essential city service, if you're keeping our 138 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:13.049 water and our power running, if you work in a grocery store. God 139 00:10:13.129 --> 00:10:20.370 bless you, because you have this incredible, difficult job and a stressful situation 140 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:24.320 and we need our food supply chain to not be interrupted. Right we don't 141 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.440 think about all the stuff that has to happen there. So we as leaders 142 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.120 need to acknowledge the fear that people have around that, the concerns their family 143 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.230 members have around that. We need to do what we can to protect them. 144 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:41.110 So for those of us who have a service that could maybe protect them, 145 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:43.870 we should be making that readily available. We've seen some great things. 146 00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:50.379 You gave an example or earlier of providing educators video access at no cost. 147 00:10:50.580 --> 00:10:54.820 We've seen other people make other kinds of conciliation. We also need to take 148 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:58.740 care of security. The reality is when people are working more remotely or they're 149 00:10:58.779 --> 00:11:05.610 working and more social distance situations, they are maybe not following all the secure 150 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.250 protocols or filing sending files back and forth an email and they're throwing things and, 151 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.330 you know, portable drives and they're exposing us. They don't have the 152 00:11:13.370 --> 00:11:16.529 same networks and firewall. So we need to make sure that we're thinking about 153 00:11:16.570 --> 00:11:20.200 the infrastructor to protect the data of the people that we're serving in this situation 154 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.639 and so sort of the threat about all of this is simply using our good 155 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:30.039 sense to think through the scenarios that our customers are going through, to be 156 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:35.470 sensitive to how we communicate and to be consistent and transparent about what we are 157 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:39.309 doing with our customers. And then, on the flip side, we have 158 00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:43.269 to accept and be ready for an entourage of people who are trying to cancel 159 00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:50.940 reservations, reschedule meetings, transform whole conferences into virtual events, who are just 160 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.620 not sure how to make all these bits and pieces because we've never gone through 161 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:01.059 something like this on a global scale. I've certainly done this and crisis management, 162 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:03.730 for example in New Orleans when we had those, you know, terrible 163 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:07.210 hurricanes, or we had flooding in Texas last year, but when we think 164 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:11.370 about the scale of this, it's unlike anything that we've done, and so 165 00:12:11.730 --> 00:12:16.919 we have to be ready to have questions that we don't have time to answer 166 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.759 be asked and we have to be patient with it. These are the times 167 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:26.200 we're talking to human is probably better than talking to a machine. Right if 168 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:31.350 I'm worried, I need a I need rubbing alcohol the clean my medical equipment. 169 00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:35.950 This came up on a facebook group recently and before I go to the 170 00:12:35.070 --> 00:12:39.309 store and I send somebody there get my rubbing allcle I want to make sure 171 00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:43.669 it's in stock and I call the store, I need to talk to someone 172 00:12:43.710 --> 00:12:46.700 who's going to be able to tell me whether it's in stock, tell me 173 00:12:46.820 --> 00:12:50.419 whether I'm going to be able to get it in stock, maybe recommend places 174 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:54.059 where we could have it be put on a weight list, whatever those things 175 00:12:54.379 --> 00:12:58.610 may be, and come together and interact with people in a way that is 176 00:12:58.730 --> 00:13:03.129 sensitive to even if we're feel like business is normal, because I'm sitting in 177 00:13:03.129 --> 00:13:07.850 the same office I sat in three weeks ago and six weeks ago, it's 178 00:13:07.929 --> 00:13:11.049 not normal for the people who are calling me and asking me questions. Yeah, 179 00:13:11.169 --> 00:13:13.919 really, really good. There's a lot there. The couple things I 180 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.679 want to touch on. One is, you know, when you talk about 181 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.240 transparency, that couple words came to mind there, and the it's visibility and 182 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.549 accessibility, and so you know all this is up in the air. Is 183 00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:30.389 this two weeks? Is it a month? Is it eight weeks? Is 184 00:13:30.669 --> 00:13:33.629 a number that was just thrown out like it's so, so fluid, and 185 00:13:33.669 --> 00:13:39.070 so I think keeping communication channels open for our team members right as we try 186 00:13:39.110 --> 00:13:43.860 to figure out what is something that we didn't anticipate. We need to close 187 00:13:43.899 --> 00:13:46.059 this loop, we need to fix this. You gave a number of really 188 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:50.500 good examples of just workflow issues that we need to pay attention to. And 189 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:54.899 and then you also teat up something that I spent a lot of time over 190 00:13:54.980 --> 00:13:58.490 the weekend doing, which is, UN undoing all of my travel plans. 191 00:13:58.529 --> 00:14:03.169 I have a high school junior at our home and you know, we have 192 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:07.009 a will. He's a school kid, love school, high performer. So 193 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:09.960 we're like we had a bunch of college tours scheduled between now and next fall 194 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.120 and you know, so we've been to a few schools already, but the 195 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.720 first big trip here over spring break, of course, is canceled. So 196 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.120 we have to cancel personal plans, professional plans, etcetera. And so I 197 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.000 found myself in a zone that I know you have a lot to recommend an 198 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.389 offer around, which is the communication channels that are available to us as consumers. 199 00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:31.350 And so you know, I was on I was any emails, responding 200 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:35.149 to some emails, I was in some mobile APPS, I was on some 201 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:37.940 websites, some was front facing some I was logged into my own account and 202 00:14:39.139 --> 00:14:43.700 I was on the telephone intermittently across these experiences and in one case they took 203 00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:48.620 me from an email where to cancel. They still wanted to charge me fifty 204 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:54.570 percent of the charge and then I called and they said, Oh, okay, 205 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:56.490 no problem at all, you don't have to pay that. will send 206 00:14:56.490 --> 00:15:00.409 you another email. Take a look at it. This for a rental car. 207 00:15:00.889 --> 00:15:03.409 Take a look at it and just reply and see what your circumstances are 208 00:15:03.929 --> 00:15:07.399 and then we'll just use that on file and then just cancel what turns out 209 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.519 a demon work out that way. So it's some point I need to call 210 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:15.440 him back because their reply to my email, which said entire trip is canceled. 211 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.320 The schools are not accepting us to visit the campus anymore. We're just 212 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:22.029 not doing the trip. It's not the prudent thing to do and we can't 213 00:15:22.070 --> 00:15:24.190 even execute the whole reason we're going in the first place. So we would 214 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:28.549 like a you know, a refund, and the reply was well, there 215 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.950 isn't. There is not a national mandate not to travel, so we can't 216 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:37.100 do that right now. You know, this is like be still my heart, 217 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:43.779 like, look, I'm sensitive and I understand that's there are financially vulnerable 218 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:50.490 companies out there that these changes impact, and I believe that our government and 219 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:56.529 our communities and our customers and our partners need to find a way to keep 220 00:15:56.570 --> 00:16:00.929 people solving through this. Having said all of that, they answer and solution 221 00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:06.120 is not to piss off every customer. Even they shouldn't even have made you 222 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:11.600 ask the question of sending the emails. We are in lockdown as a globe 223 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:17.320 right now across much of the world, certainly across the United States and the 224 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:22.110 campuses. Every college student right now is on force break. My son tomorrow 225 00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:25.309 is going to empty his dorm because even though they have an officially said it's 226 00:16:25.309 --> 00:16:27.909 going to be six or eight weeks, it's I think every everything indicates it's 227 00:16:27.950 --> 00:16:32.190 going to be and we don't want to have to go back. If school 228 00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:34.379 reopens, will bring a stuff back. I'll like to have that problem right, 229 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:37.940 but we're going to go empty it. At least we can get his 230 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:44.139 books and things for online learning. So they the right customer service and customer 231 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:49.009 experience should have been to proactively communicate with you. We suspect your travel plans 232 00:16:49.049 --> 00:16:55.330 have changed. If we're not correct, please let us know so a default, 233 00:16:56.009 --> 00:17:00.600 that the default should be the most likely scenario somebody's going through and they 234 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.880 shouldn't make it go through their hoop of saying why your plans have changed, 235 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:10.920 because we know the answer to that question. Your plans have changed because everything 236 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.880 is in a slow down mode as we as a country respond. Now, 237 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:18.430 I don't blame the individual person who had to read that email. Clearly they 238 00:17:18.470 --> 00:17:22.230 haven't been given a corporate policy that gives them the fortitude to address that. 239 00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:25.869 They could have a policy that says, at this point, we actually can't 240 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:29.349 afford to do refunds and maybe we're not in a financial situation to do that. 241 00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:33.220 Then they should have been should at least give you a credit towards future, 242 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:40.579 or they should have some dialog with you about that situation. But they 243 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:45.849 defaulted wrong they asked you to jump through hoops incorrectly. They have a policy 244 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:52.289 that's going to make you uncomfortable and unsatisfied with it and instead of delivering bad 245 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:56.849 news to you and a conversation where at least the empathy can come through, 246 00:17:56.809 --> 00:18:00.319 they didn't do it. For example, I canceled my housekeeper. Let me 247 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.799 tell you, this was a painful decision for me. To make. I'm 248 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.160 in a situation where I could Ford to pay her, so I said that 249 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.839 I'm going to just then mow you the money, at least for a couple 250 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.430 of times. She's an individual and I'm fortunate and grateful to be able to 251 00:18:15.509 --> 00:18:18.109 say that I can afford that. But if I had to call and cancel, 252 00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:22.829 I wouldn't have sent her a text message saying I'm canceling and I'm sorry 253 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:25.470 I can't pay you. I would have picked up the phone and, at 254 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:30.180 a minimum, left of voice mail where she could hear my voice and hear 255 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:36.539 my sincerity in understand that I feel bad about it. We can't always do 256 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:40.539 the thing that's going to make the customer on the other side happy, but 257 00:18:40.660 --> 00:18:45.250 we can do the thing that makes them feel we're human and empathetic to the 258 00:18:45.329 --> 00:18:48.450 situation we find ourselves in. Yeah, just allow them to feel like they've 259 00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:52.609 been heard and that they're appreciated. I see you, I understand your circumstance. 260 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:56.400 I want to meet you there. Let's talk about what we can do. 261 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.200 I thought the airlines in general did a very nice job of the two 262 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.279 things you specifically recommended, which is default to what is the most likely situation, 263 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.599 which, by the way, this applies at all times, not just 264 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:12.789 in times of crisis, but default to what the expectation is and then make 265 00:19:12.829 --> 00:19:17.630 it really, really easy. All of them are hey and and I forget 266 00:19:17.670 --> 00:19:21.670 which one, because I had flight schedule. I'm united guy on points mostly, 267 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:25.259 but because they fly out of Colorado Springs. But you know, I 268 00:19:25.299 --> 00:19:29.099 had flights on Delta and American also schedule, just I could go direct out 269 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:32.460 of Colorado Springs, which is not a major airport. So I mix up 270 00:19:32.500 --> 00:19:37.180 my vendors and they all did a really nice job of proactive communication. And 271 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:40.250 I forget which one it was, but they said, Hey, don't call 272 00:19:40.329 --> 00:19:44.369 us, here's the deal. You know, you have no obligations right now. 273 00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:48.210 You have up until the end of the year to reschedule. You know 274 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:52.319 the value of this flight, and it's like so they're like it's really kind 275 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.799 of this whole flat in the curve thing. But you know, in a 276 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.720 very acute customer service situation, is like, don't call us right now. 277 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.799 You're going to hate it, we're going to hate it. We got your 278 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.480 back. Don't worry about it. You have months to figure it out. 279 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.869 And so what now? What I need to do is make a little spreadsheet 280 00:20:07.869 --> 00:20:11.910 to say, you know all the flights I canceled in a little open credit, 281 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:15.910 because they're spread across various APPS and websites. But they did both of 282 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:19.230 those things really, really well. The perfect example of how to use technology, 283 00:20:19.269 --> 00:20:23.220 because what they needed to free up their staff for was the person who 284 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:27.380 says my son is stuck in London and I need to get my kid home. 285 00:20:29.259 --> 00:20:33.500 Help me do that. So look, technology can help us communicate to 286 00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.529 the default step and they made it very easy and Airy rampathetic so that the 287 00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:41.529 when the things that are emotional things that I need to respond to, I 288 00:20:41.650 --> 00:20:45.690 can make sure that my phone staff is available for them to be able to 289 00:20:45.769 --> 00:20:48.849 I agree. I think the airlines overall have done a nice job. My 290 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.400 son reluctantly was on a flight this week. It was a short domestic flight 291 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.680 from Rochester. I was really uncomfortable situation, but I needed to get them 292 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:03.640 home and I was comforted by talking to the airline about the cleaning thing. 293 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.190 So sure, I got the email everybody else got, but given my scenario, 294 00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:11.509 I also called the local airport and I asked them to give me, 295 00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:15.269 you know, sort of the lay of the land and I felt they were 296 00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:18.019 honest and sincere and well trained, because we could have had the option of 297 00:21:18.099 --> 00:21:22.779 him renting a car and driving back or something like that. So I think 298 00:21:22.819 --> 00:21:26.420 you're right. There are so much good happening right now and so much that 299 00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:33.049 I've actually been pleasantly surprised by. But there have been pockets of opportunists that 300 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.450 are sort of feeding in to the frenzy and the fear and the discomfort or 301 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.849 just making us go through a whole bunch of extra hoops. Nobody needs the 302 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:47.240 extra stress right now. Let's make it easier on ourselves. Yeah, so 303 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.680 let's talk about one of the channels that I know you have some thoughts on, 304 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.440 which is chat, and we have kind of two ways to go about 305 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.680 that, live chat and chat bots. You know, last time we talked 306 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:03.150 we talked about the transparency of automation and AI. Although a lot of cover 307 00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:06.230 ground episode fourteen. Go back and listen to it. Is Really, really 308 00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:07.710 good. So we won't won't do too much of it again. But you 309 00:22:07.789 --> 00:22:11.950 know this idea that so much of what we're calling AI is actually automation. 310 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:15.549 In these channels, you don't have what you have on the phone or even 311 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.779 what you have with videos, kind of this empathetic thing. We talked about 312 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:22.700 transparency and not acting as if you're a person if you're actually about. But 313 00:22:22.099 --> 00:22:26.099 you know, in this context of our conversation here today, what do you 314 00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:32.849 think about the chat experience today as regards the customer experience? You know, 315 00:22:32.930 --> 00:22:36.170 first of all, I think the chattocks were, in both live and, 316 00:22:36.890 --> 00:22:40.529 you know, ai driven, our part of the tool kit that we should 317 00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:44.880 be using. I think they're incredibly useful. I did a study where we 318 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.240 talked to about five hundred and fifty things, where the number at it up, 319 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:53.119 but over five hundred consumers and we very specifically ask them, when they 320 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.240 want to talk to a machine when they don't, what their expectations are. 321 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.869 We gave them scenarios and asked them to say, if you read these three 322 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.869 scenarios, how would it change? Would you buy from that person again? 323 00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:07.309 How do you what do you think about their brand? And it was starting 324 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:15.259 laneley clear for everyday operational things, talking to a machine instead of a person 325 00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.460 is perfectly fine and often preferred. I want to know if you're open. 326 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.819 I want to know you know, what's the balance on an account? What 327 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:25.099 time is that appointment? I scheduled again. Right. I don't actually need 328 00:23:25.180 --> 00:23:26.849 to have a back and forth. I want to answer the question and get 329 00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:33.849 it answered. When I have a moment of concern, upset frustration, do 330 00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:38.329 not give me to a machine. It actually makes it significantly worse and it 331 00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:42.200 doesn't just make it significantly worse in the moment that I'm in right now, 332 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:48.640 it makes me not want to interact with your brand prior the other thing that 333 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:53.559 it's surfaced very clearly is don't pretend your human if you're a machine, because 334 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.150 when we get into scenarios where I can tell that the transfer, they were 335 00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:04.829 more the same bad chat experience that was clearly a little robot symbol and like 336 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:11.180 not a real person, as it look like a picture of a person. 337 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:15.819 Right, the same exact chat script was way more negatively perceived in the long 338 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:18.980 term relationship I want to have with the brand. When it was I thought 339 00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:22.859 it was a human or were pretending to be a human. Then when you 340 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:26.849 were just clear that's robot, I forgive the robots ignorance because it's a robot 341 00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:30.450 and I'm okay with that. For goodness. It also became very clear we 342 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:36.890 need escalation pattern. So it's particularly in scenarios like this, where we all 343 00:24:37.009 --> 00:24:41.319 have questions. You're running around trying to figure out how I'm going to respond 344 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.759 to events being canceled and I'm trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be. 345 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.559 Your get home from wherever I am or adjust a meeting for wherever I 346 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.440 am. When I hit a steck point, I need to be able to 347 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:59.109 talk to an actual human being and our automated technology needs ways to I identify 348 00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:02.549 that. I'm getting that point when we put that chat bought up and we 349 00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:07.220 simply say here have a you know, here's the phone number to call. 350 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:12.500 It's one of the most frustrating things that can happen because you're asking me to 351 00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:18.900 leave the medium I chose to use, in this case a chat window, 352 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:25.369 and go find my phone, dial a number and reget in a queue for 353 00:25:25.529 --> 00:25:30.609 somebody to answer my phone call. And even if the phone call gets resolves 354 00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:36.440 my issue, we've created extra steps for someone at a moment that's the worst 355 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:41.279 time to create ex extra work for them. Yeah, putting the burden on 356 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.160 the customer, even the perceived burden, in some cases really not that much 357 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.640 more work, but if it feels that way, the customers experience is the 358 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.710 experience. The customers experience is a matter of fact. We need to respect 359 00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:56.390 it and appreciate it. In this channel switching situation, I did a solo 360 00:25:56.470 --> 00:26:00.230 episode just based on some of the learnings of the first chapter of the effortless 361 00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:04.460 experience by Matt Dixon in a couple other folks, and that's one of the 362 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:08.859 being treated like a number and channel switching are two of the most frustrating things 363 00:26:08.980 --> 00:26:12.900 people can experience. Really interesting survey results, by the way, love that 364 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:18.339 you're just doing that work so in unleash possible. You advocated for video like 365 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:22.410 extensively. I forget which chapter it was somewhere toward the end and of course 366 00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:25.289 we already touched on it a little bit here, and I think what it 367 00:26:25.410 --> 00:26:29.210 does is takes a little bit of that what we were talking about, that 368 00:26:29.329 --> 00:26:33.279 empathy that can be delivered through a voicemail or through a phone call, and 369 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.160 just steps it up to another level. That if we are sincere in our 370 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.000 message, whether it's I'm really sorry for your experience or I'm so excited for 371 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:45.000 you or congratulations, you just hit a milestone or whatever, the message is 372 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.509 that, if we're sincere in it, that our bodies, in our faces 373 00:26:48.950 --> 00:26:53.029 and our voices all tell it in a way that just simply can't be communicated 374 00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:57.950 any better except live in person. And so, in light of our conversation 375 00:26:59.230 --> 00:27:03.460 here, maybe set up your your initial ideas about video, whether as expressed 376 00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:07.059 in the unleash possible or since you wrote the book and in the context of 377 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:12.180 what we're talking about here today. Yeah, you know, I really believe 378 00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:21.009 that video is critically important because not only can you better see how I'm responding 379 00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:25.609 to something or I project my surprise, my sincere apologies, my excitement, 380 00:27:26.049 --> 00:27:30.039 my you know, information, but equally, as a person, I can 381 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.279 see the other person on the other side and I can read their body language 382 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:36.839 and I can respond and adjust to what I'm seeing on the screen, just 383 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:38.240 kind of like if I was in a room with a person. It's a 384 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.519 little bit different, but it proxies it very well. So I think video 385 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:48.710 is critically valuable tool and we use it in one on one conversations. I'd 386 00:27:48.789 --> 00:27:52.750 by default turn my camera on for pretty much every conversation. There's a couple 387 00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.950 exception. Sometimes band with is you is an issue for a day or a 388 00:27:56.109 --> 00:28:00.019 moment, and that's fine. I do do a podcast that's audio only because 389 00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:03.539 that medium is meant for someone while they're doing something else, like driving and 390 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:07.460 and and that's okay, but the my default is video on. But we 391 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:12.970 also have to remember that video is a really powerful tool for all different kinds 392 00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:18.849 of content, long form content, teaching something, interacting with someone. It's 393 00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:22.890 a great tool for direct mail to open something up and actually have a video 394 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:27.759 welcome message instead of this another message and they're there's just a whole bunch of 395 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.319 things that happen. One of the things we have to remember and remind ourselves 396 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:38.440 of is that video doesn't have to be perfect and it doesn't have to be 397 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.589 always polished. You know, I have on a scarf and I threw some 398 00:28:44.869 --> 00:28:47.109 lipstick on because I love you, Ethan, and I knew you were going 399 00:28:47.109 --> 00:28:52.390 to be videotaping me right, but I'm still comfortable and I'm still not overly 400 00:28:52.910 --> 00:28:56.500 prepped. I didn't have hair and makeup come in do this today right, 401 00:28:56.059 --> 00:29:00.700 and I don't need to, because the whole point of video is actually to 402 00:29:00.819 --> 00:29:04.339 make people comfortable with each other and it is a unique medium by which we 403 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.380 can do that. And if you are not yourself on the video, whether 404 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:11.529 it's a direct mail piece you're sending out, whether it's a little note from 405 00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:15.650 a salesperson, whether it's a high five to somebody did a great job, 406 00:29:17.609 --> 00:29:19.529 it doesn't matter. So just you know, we just got to get good 407 00:29:19.730 --> 00:29:26.000 at being comfortable and I'm always thinking about what can I do for video. 408 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.960 I'll give you a really good example of how I used video to affect a 409 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.759 business outcome for myself. Actually, not that long ago we ran a marketing 410 00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.990 strategy workshop my business partner and I, and it was the first in person 411 00:29:38.150 --> 00:29:42.589 workshop that we done for a classrooms that we were in workshops for individual clients 412 00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:48.589 all the time and I've taught big workshops at conferences that other people have hosted 413 00:29:48.910 --> 00:29:52.509 off and off, and it was the first time that we'd done it and 414 00:29:52.789 --> 00:29:56.420 we assumed the math that half the people who registered woudn't show up right like 415 00:29:56.539 --> 00:30:03.059 kind of typical event type of thing. That happened. But I was determined 416 00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:08.130 to break that trend and so I I think the thing that gives us the 417 00:30:08.250 --> 00:30:11.529 most it was a good class, so I'll say that. And I think 418 00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:15.250 people wanted to come and we had a good venue and we had a good 419 00:30:15.289 --> 00:30:17.289 material. So we did all of that. But even when you do that 420 00:30:17.369 --> 00:30:19.210 you still have drop off. So what we did is, as soon as 421 00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:26.119 somebody registered, I sent a video message to them that said Hey, congratulations, 422 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.400 so excited you came. Here's what to expect for the day. You 423 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.000 don't need to prep and I you know. And it's and it's like if 424 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.150 they don't show up, they've disappointed me a little bit. Right and then 425 00:30:36.710 --> 00:30:41.109 and then the day before the event we said Hey, can't wait to see 426 00:30:41.109 --> 00:30:48.029 you tomorrow and gave some other like little stuff and we had twenty. I 427 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:53.940 think we ended up having twenty people registered. One person got called away on 428 00:30:55.059 --> 00:30:57.380 and out of town trip last minute for an urgent work and couldn't show up. 429 00:30:57.819 --> 00:31:03.380 Every other and and they sent this hugely apologetic I can't be their node. 430 00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:07.650 Every other person came and came on time and stayed the entire time. 431 00:31:08.650 --> 00:31:11.809 We're good, but it's not just because we did a good workshop. We 432 00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:18.130 took the time to connect with people who had registered in this very intimate way 433 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:25.599 and I really truly believe that the video played an important role and getting that 434 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.720 show rate to be higher than it might otherwise have been. It's really good. 435 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.069 That's the social reciprocity pieces is a really good one, in an undervalued 436 00:31:34.150 --> 00:31:37.269 one, but you referred to it twice. The first one is this idea 437 00:31:37.349 --> 00:31:42.750 that they're not just letting down some organization that has an email signature and some 438 00:31:42.829 --> 00:31:47.069 details in a typed out email. They're letting down Samantha. I can't let 439 00:31:47.109 --> 00:31:48.980 her down and in the case that I have to, this is a second 440 00:31:49.059 --> 00:31:53.579 part, I'm going to be profusely apologetic, whereas otherwise it's just so much 441 00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:57.980 more difficult to disappoint or reject a human than it is, you know, 442 00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:04.250 a wall of faceless digital text, and we've seen this too, by the 443 00:32:04.289 --> 00:32:07.970 way, using video to increase show rates on appointment, set demos, set 444 00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:10.769 in these other things, you know, not just a full day workshop, 445 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:15.170 but even like lighter weight stuff, even zoom calls in those types of things. 446 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:17.079 We had a pretty large one of the top ten franchises in the United 447 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:23.240 States. Their franchise sales team uses bombomb and they were able to increase show 448 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:29.240 rates from fifty six to seventy eight percent on one of their initial calls, 449 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:30.349 and so you can you just like walk that. I've just think about a 450 00:32:30.349 --> 00:32:37.430 traditional like sales funnel. generically speaking, the ability to take the initial conversation 451 00:32:37.869 --> 00:32:42.069 and set the appointment is one thing, and then to actually have the appointment 452 00:32:42.150 --> 00:32:45.420 shown to be able to bump by, you know, twenty plus points the 453 00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:47.740 show rates on that call to you. Just think about all the downstream consequences 454 00:32:47.779 --> 00:32:52.099 and all it is is what you what we've already observed, which is it's 455 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:54.299 just human connection. It's just this. Yeah, you know, I can't 456 00:32:54.339 --> 00:32:58.809 let her down. owner. I feel more connected or I feel more trust 457 00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.529 toward the situation. I feel more clear about what to expect because it's been 458 00:33:01.569 --> 00:33:07.009 communicated to me, not through my own tone of reading this. This otherwise 459 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:10.890 like toneless text. I mean really, really good writer can infuse text with 460 00:33:10.970 --> 00:33:15.200 a little bit of tone that people can feel, not just read and think, 461 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:20.079 but actually feel video. You just start feeling immediately. Yeah, you 462 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:22.359 know, it's a perfect example of how to apply this at scale, and 463 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.269 that's a huge difference in your business. Think about that at twenty percent plus 464 00:33:27.430 --> 00:33:30.710 swing and the people who show up for demo like that's big and I do 465 00:33:30.910 --> 00:33:34.269 think social reciprocity, as we've been talking about, as part of it. 466 00:33:34.670 --> 00:33:37.029 I also think it shows it's going to be worth my time because they're saying 467 00:33:37.029 --> 00:33:40.980 things that are relevant. I'm likely to maybe skip through and read an email 468 00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:45.299 like theistics uptate. I probably scan. I also sent text, by the 469 00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:47.940 way, because not everybody watches videos, so we did that. But also 470 00:33:49.180 --> 00:33:53.579 I think there's this component of I'm important, they took time to send me 471 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:59.890 a message. I'm I'm important to them, and so therefore there's a piece 472 00:33:59.930 --> 00:34:01.730 of this. I'm going to want to go there, I'm going to want 473 00:34:01.730 --> 00:34:05.289 to see this and it's going to be worth my time. They're articulate, 474 00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:08.730 they have something relevant for me. So I love the application of applying to 475 00:34:08.849 --> 00:34:13.039 show rates for Demos. I think it can be used for all kinds of 476 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.719 thing. Ethan is the best set this. Every conversation with Ethan Big milestoness 477 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:22.119 if he always sends the the most gracious of videos afterwards out and is a 478 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:28.789 real living example of how out to build that connection with people that we may 479 00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:31.630 never have been in a room with before, but I could still feel like 480 00:34:31.829 --> 00:34:36.230 it right. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that in a really good point, 481 00:34:36.590 --> 00:34:38.219 that this, this gift of your time and attention, is something that 482 00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:40.659 can't be fake. Like no one knows how long it took you to write 483 00:34:40.699 --> 00:34:45.780 that email, but everyone knows that you spent forty two seconds explaining that thing 484 00:34:45.019 --> 00:34:49.099 just for you. Like when it's you know, you can do evergreen or 485 00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:52.340 you can do truly personally. Do It truly personal that is just the ultimate 486 00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:54.849 like this gift of my time and attention. I no one's going to say 487 00:34:54.849 --> 00:34:59.090 that consciously and say, my Gosh, she took forty two seconds out of 488 00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:01.090 her day to say that, but I do get all the time. Thank 489 00:35:01.130 --> 00:35:05.610 you so much for taking the time to answer my question in a video right 490 00:35:05.690 --> 00:35:07.840 and it's like I just saved myself like five or ten minutes. So would 491 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.519 have taken me a lot longer to explain it by typing it all out. 492 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:15.480 So there's a number of really, really good benefits there. At the risk 493 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:20.360 of time and at the risk of throwing a complete curveball into the conversation. 494 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.309 It was recently. I'm going to do it anyway as I love you, 495 00:35:24.429 --> 00:35:30.750 Ethan. Do it good. It was recently International Women's Day and on Linkedin 496 00:35:30.869 --> 00:35:32.949 you gave a shout out to several women that you've worked with and really respect. 497 00:35:34.349 --> 00:35:37.539 You help give away some free subscriptions to innovation women, and I just 498 00:35:37.699 --> 00:35:44.260 wanted a quick take from you on as someone who is obviously built a successful 499 00:35:44.300 --> 00:35:47.380 career as a woman, like why in two thousand and twenty are we still 500 00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:53.690 in this gender inequality situation or and or what are some seeds of hopes? 501 00:35:53.769 --> 00:35:58.409 Just like give me a take on what's the scene and where are we going 502 00:35:58.730 --> 00:36:01.650 and what are you encouraged by? Yeah, you know, I wish I 503 00:36:01.809 --> 00:36:06.960 could tell you why we're still in this situation, because the reality is in 504 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:13.800 my entire lifetime laws have been in effect to make this relatively easy in parts 505 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.639 of the world that I work. That is not true in large parts of 506 00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:22.550 the world. There are still real inequalities in legal structure, in the rights 507 00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:25.269 that a woman has versus a man and in big parts of the world. 508 00:36:25.309 --> 00:36:30.190 And so part of what holds woman back is cultural and legal context that we 509 00:36:30.349 --> 00:36:35.019 take for granted in the United States and in a lot of European countries and 510 00:36:35.420 --> 00:36:37.659 and many places around the world. We just take it for granted the exist. 511 00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:42.579 They don't in many places. So that's a fundamental infrastructure that needs to 512 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:49.050 be fixed more daytoday. Operationally oriented, I think we don't do a good 513 00:36:49.130 --> 00:36:54.570 job of rewarding people of different approaches to solving things. I'll be quite candid. 514 00:36:55.250 --> 00:37:00.449 As a woman, I quickly got promoted in my career and I quickly 515 00:37:00.849 --> 00:37:06.239 had success and I didn't hit a lot of direct glass ceilings. But I 516 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:08.519 believe there's a real reason for it, and I believe the reason for it 517 00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:14.880 is I acted like a man. I did the things in the environment and 518 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:17.869 now not all men act the same the don't you know, everybody don't interpret 519 00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:22.070 that. What I mean was I was really assertive about what I wanted. 520 00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:30.139 I was super agree restive about forcing myself into conversations. I'm not known for 521 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:35.139 sitting back and being quiet. That makes me a strong woman, but that 522 00:37:35.179 --> 00:37:37.980 doesn't make me every woman. There are strong women like that and we as 523 00:37:38.300 --> 00:37:44.179 communities and as business leaders ye back to listening to all voices, including quiet 524 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:46.849 of voices. So you know, I think there's any quality, not just 525 00:37:47.090 --> 00:37:51.289 in men and women. I think there's any quality and a whole bunch of 526 00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:57.210 context around different thought process and different things. But the female and versus male 527 00:37:57.409 --> 00:38:02.920 and equality is robust inconsistent because all of the infrastructure to address it isn't there. 528 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.039 We're not taught the same things, we're not supported in the same way 529 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:10.760 and it's real and it exists today. So I do have hope. I 530 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:16.389 personally have had a very wonderful journey, but it hasn't always been easy and 531 00:38:16.469 --> 00:38:21.710 I've had to I've been a working mother with young children and the first day 532 00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:23.989 I started a job, the president of the company looked at me and said 533 00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:28.659 I did not want to hire you, and I didn't want to not hire 534 00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:32.380 me because of my skills or my experience. I was a perfect fit. 535 00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:37.019 They didn't want to hire me because I had an infant and I lived forty 536 00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:39.619 five minutes from the office that we were required to be in and they were 537 00:38:39.739 --> 00:38:43.610 worried that I would have to leave to pick up my kid at daycare. 538 00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:47.969 And literally, that's the exact conversation we had. I shouldn't that should not 539 00:38:49.969 --> 00:38:52.849 have been a conversation and I was very fortunate. We made a decision as 540 00:38:52.849 --> 00:38:57.639 a family. My husband chose to stay home with our kids and he took 541 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:02.119 the childcare issue off the table for this particular organization. But I shouldn't have 542 00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:06.559 had to. It was the right choice for our family anyways. But a 543 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:08.480 lot of people don't have a choice to make, or they make that choice 544 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:13.110 because they feel like they have to, and so I think just fundamentally in 545 00:39:13.269 --> 00:39:19.510 equity still exists. We have to take an active stand to change that, 546 00:39:20.110 --> 00:39:25.860 and days like International Women's Day gives us the opportunity to surface those challenges and 547 00:39:27.099 --> 00:39:30.739 to move forward and correct them. I love seeing all these programs that are 548 00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:37.820 designed to elevate female voices. I love seeing more young girls follow pursuits and 549 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:42.849 sciences and Maths and other things that have traditionally been very male dominated and, 550 00:39:43.409 --> 00:39:45.409 quite frankly, it's not just the right thing to do. We have to 551 00:39:45.449 --> 00:39:50.730 do it, and I'll give you a really real example. We have artificial 552 00:39:50.769 --> 00:39:54.880 intelligence technology that is building algorithms that fundamentally decides what we see what we don't 553 00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.960 say. Hugh would target we don't if a woman's perspective, and the only 554 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:05.440 people who are coding that are men and it's only trained and they will inherently 555 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:10.230 miss things about a whole a half of the world's population, just like if 556 00:40:10.269 --> 00:40:14.829 it's all young people versus old people, or if it's all people of one 557 00:40:14.949 --> 00:40:19.309 culture versus a different culture. We have to have that kind of diversity. 558 00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:24.300 So if we don't do things to encourage young women to move into these science 559 00:40:24.340 --> 00:40:28.860 is we're going to find ourselves in some very tricky and dangerous situations. That 560 00:40:28.900 --> 00:40:32.260 are not because people are evil, it's just because we all have the context 561 00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:37.769 that we have. And so I am excited and I am optimistic because the 562 00:40:37.929 --> 00:40:44.170 fact that we're even having this conversation even would never have happened twenty years ago 563 00:40:44.289 --> 00:40:49.409 and any of my conversations. So I see that as a positive sign. 564 00:40:49.570 --> 00:40:52.519 But there's still a lot of work to do. Good. I'm really glad 565 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:57.079 that I asked. I think a couple things and and see something, say 566 00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:00.199 something. I think that's one way that anyone listening to this in a workplace 567 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:05.670 environment can start to make the cultural change when it like it's one thing for 568 00:41:05.789 --> 00:41:09.230 that gentleman that you were referring to earlier to think these things, but to 569 00:41:09.349 --> 00:41:15.110 say it openly says something about the culture inside that organization. And so when 570 00:41:15.150 --> 00:41:21.699 you see something borderline or obviously inappropriate, just say something. Question the person 571 00:41:21.739 --> 00:41:23.340 who said it, question the person who did it, just make them think 572 00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:28.380 twice. To create this warness doesn't have to be highly confrontational, but letting 573 00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:31.659 things fly. We're all complicit in in the consequences of letting things fly. 574 00:41:32.329 --> 00:41:38.010 And I do think that just general awareness of I mean it's hard because it's 575 00:41:38.090 --> 00:41:43.929 unconscious bias, and so making the unconscious conscious, you know, is a 576 00:41:44.010 --> 00:41:47.840 little bit oxymoronic or a contradiction in terms or something, but the more aware 577 00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:52.159 that we are, the better off we are. I am going to even 578 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.400 though we'd already did this once. You Think Jeff Holling for opening up an 579 00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:59.679 early stage of your career in a really welcoming way, and you gave a 580 00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:06.630 shout out to the at Bobmx, for accommodating your health condition that you described 581 00:42:06.630 --> 00:42:08.150 at the top of this conversation. So we're just a minute. I'm going 582 00:42:08.190 --> 00:42:10.590 to ask you to answer both of those questions again, because it's been like 583 00:42:10.829 --> 00:42:15.219 ten months since we've talked. But but before we do, for folks who 584 00:42:15.219 --> 00:42:20.420 are listening again, be sure to give a listen to episode fourteen, balancing 585 00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:23.780 automation, AI and human relationships with Samantha and, if you want, check 586 00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:30.130 out episode sixty three, creating fans through human connection with David Merriman Scott. 587 00:42:30.170 --> 00:42:32.650 Again, one of the reasons that that, I mean it was not this 588 00:42:32.809 --> 00:42:36.690 transactional, but this is the way that just, you know, being thoughtful 589 00:42:36.730 --> 00:42:39.170 and gracious works out. You were kind enough to think of me when his 590 00:42:39.250 --> 00:42:43.170 book Fan accracy released. You had a sign copy sent to me and I 591 00:42:43.250 --> 00:42:45.840 was like, I like her, you're just reminding me, like I need, 592 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:49.320 I need to talk to her again, and we had been in communication 593 00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.599 anyway. But Anyway, episode fourteen and episode sixty three. If you enjoyed 594 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.159 this one, you'll like that one too. So, Samantha, as we 595 00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:00.510 wind down, take a minute here to thank or mention someone who's had a 596 00:43:00.550 --> 00:43:05.829 positive impact on your life or your career. Oh Gosh, I'm so fortunate. 597 00:43:06.030 --> 00:43:10.070 There have been so many amazing and wonderful people. I won't thank Jeff 598 00:43:10.230 --> 00:43:15.739 Howe again just because holy sorry, that's okay. Will spread the love a 599 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:20.139 little bit around that. But you know, one of the people that I 600 00:43:20.380 --> 00:43:23.219 I'd love to recognize as Katie Martel. I'm not sure that she would think 601 00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:29.489 of her self in this way. So if you care a lot about equality 602 00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:34.010 for women or truce and advertising in general, a lot of things, Katie 603 00:43:34.050 --> 00:43:39.050 do some amazing work around handering and cause marketing and and calls out a lot 604 00:43:39.130 --> 00:43:44.400 of companies to do it wrong. And she also happened to edit my book. 605 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.320 She also happens to be a person that I've been fortunate to know for 606 00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:52.679 a lot of years, and I I really have to give her credit because 607 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:59.309 she makes me want to be a better marketer every day and she is the 608 00:43:59.429 --> 00:44:02.230 kind of voice that we need out in the world. You know, it's 609 00:44:02.269 --> 00:44:07.190 easy to pay to turn things pink on International Women's Day that you know that 610 00:44:07.349 --> 00:44:12.820 probably isn't going to serve your business well. And she holds us all accountable 611 00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:15.260 and I think we need more of Katie mortels in the world, and so 612 00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:21.659 I'm really deeply grateful for her inspiration but also, very practically, for, 613 00:44:22.059 --> 00:44:23.610 you know, her help. I'm not sure that unleash possible could have ever 614 00:44:23.650 --> 00:44:29.730 happened without Katie. She and I. She kept me honest, she kept 615 00:44:29.769 --> 00:44:34.289 me true to what I wanted to say. She knew me well enough to 616 00:44:34.409 --> 00:44:37.449 know when I was going astray from my my purpose and pulled me back. 617 00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:44.079 And anybody that can make you look smart and talented deserves a big hifive and 618 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.280 she certainly gets a shout out from me for that. Awesome and we are 619 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.519 all fortunate if we have one or more people in our lives that make us 620 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:54.309 want to be better. Today than we were yesterday. Just to get that 621 00:44:54.590 --> 00:44:59.190 like I have that inside me, but to get that support is so helpful 622 00:44:59.190 --> 00:45:01.349 from other people. So I love hearing you describe her as someone who makes 623 00:45:01.349 --> 00:45:05.909 you want to be a better marketer. How about a company that you really 624 00:45:05.949 --> 00:45:12.380 respect for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer? That's an 625 00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:20.659 excellent question. I've had some really good experiences recently and I've had some really 626 00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:24.530 bad experiences recently. I'll give you one of the examples that I that I 627 00:45:24.610 --> 00:45:29.610 like to use because I think it really is demonstrating of a commit with this 628 00:45:29.730 --> 00:45:35.210 company has made to their customers. wayfarer. So I ordered chairs for my 629 00:45:35.289 --> 00:45:37.719 office when my office was coming and I was being a little obsessive about everything 630 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.880 because this was his brand new workspace for me and I wanted everything to be 631 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:46.719 perfect. And the chairs came and I didn't love them. They didn't look 632 00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:51.230 the way I thought they would and I was super disappointed in them and they 633 00:45:51.269 --> 00:45:54.150 looked a little damaged and you know, I called up wayfarer and I'm prepared 634 00:45:54.190 --> 00:45:58.710 to sort of go to battle over why I need to return these chairs and 635 00:45:58.750 --> 00:46:04.500 I want different not only did they like graciously with no hesitation say, no 636 00:46:04.780 --> 00:46:07.219 problem, we'll take back the chairs. I'm sorry you have that experience. 637 00:46:07.699 --> 00:46:13.260 You were looking at these other chair designs that are very similar that were out 638 00:46:13.300 --> 00:46:16.179 of stock. Would you actually like those instead of replacing the one that looked 639 00:46:16.179 --> 00:46:21.610 a little damage when I got them? Like yes, so good through all 640 00:46:21.650 --> 00:46:24.090 this and I'm excited and I'm like okay, so how exactly do I box 641 00:46:24.210 --> 00:46:28.010 these back up and like get them to it's a chair, are you know? 642 00:46:28.010 --> 00:46:30.050 I'm not going to stuff in a nimble open take it to coals to 643 00:46:30.090 --> 00:46:34.000 be returned, like I might do with some of my Amazon things. You're 644 00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:37.559 like, Nope, you got someplace you can donate them. Like I'm sure 645 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:40.679 I can find the Dona. They're like keep the chairs, donate them. 646 00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.880 So they made the whole experience positive for me. Not only did I get 647 00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:51.269 replacement chairs that I'm in love with and I just adore, they also let 648 00:46:51.349 --> 00:46:54.230 me keep the old chairs and not have the hassle of returning them, and 649 00:46:54.469 --> 00:46:58.710 I got to donate them to something that I feel good about. So all 650 00:46:58.909 --> 00:47:02.019 this stuff came together in a way that I think is wonderful, and I 651 00:47:02.139 --> 00:47:06.739 will say that I think wayfarer's phone service has this kind of cared. I 652 00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:10.380 don't think they've translated it well to their email services and their chat services. 653 00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:15.769 So I caution you. Know that experience with them. But on the phone 654 00:47:16.210 --> 00:47:22.210 their team is phenomenal and I really value and I keep shopping their knowing that 655 00:47:22.289 --> 00:47:24.969 I'm going to be able to have this kind of positive experience should another issue 656 00:47:24.969 --> 00:47:28.650 arise, which doesn't. Most of the things I'd buy them are great, 657 00:47:28.969 --> 00:47:30.440 but occasionally it does happen and I know they're going to take care of me. 658 00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:35.159 It's really good. I mean, I can't imagine. I always worry 659 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:37.599 about that, even on a much smaller I mean, and you reference that, 660 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:39.800 like I worry about that with a smaller thing, like should I save 661 00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:44.670 this box? You know it's got a one year warranty. I live in 662 00:47:44.710 --> 00:47:47.510 a very, very small house, so saving boxes so that I can rebox 663 00:47:47.630 --> 00:47:52.070 something is not on the top of our list. It's like straight to recycling. 664 00:47:52.150 --> 00:47:53.909 And so, anyway, I love what they did for you there, 665 00:47:54.150 --> 00:47:59.820 Samantha. This has been great. I wish you good health and continued success, 666 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:04.900 especially through this really interesting and odd window that were in. But folks 667 00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:07.500 want to catch up with you or they want to check out unleash possible or 668 00:48:07.539 --> 00:48:12.059 anything else where we send people to follow up on this conversation. Yeah, 669 00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:14.050 thank you. I'm going to give you that information, but I want to 670 00:48:14.050 --> 00:48:15.610 say one thing before we wrap them. I hope you don't might even, 671 00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:21.210 but as we're going through this amazing point of uncertainty, we don't have all 672 00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:23.130 the answers to all the questions that are going to, add me asked of 673 00:48:23.170 --> 00:48:27.400 us and that we're going to ask ourselves. And the right thing to do 674 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.800 here is just acknowledge the uncertainty, be as open and transparent you can be, 675 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:36.880 don't share false information and don't make promises you can't keep. This is 676 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.840 the really hard one. Don't say we're going to do something that we not 677 00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:44.469 certain that we can do. So it's okay to say I don't know. 678 00:48:44.750 --> 00:48:46.469 It's okay to say we're going to try. I've been seeing a lot of 679 00:48:46.550 --> 00:48:52.030 those positive communications, so please do that. I love for new readers of 680 00:48:52.070 --> 00:48:55.940 unleash possible. Every you know week I get new messages from people with with 681 00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:00.139 information and comments and questions, and there's nothing more rewarding than that. And 682 00:49:00.219 --> 00:49:06.739 leash possible is available on Amazon both as an audio book as well as a 683 00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:09.409 regular, good old fashioned physical book. What's I like? Still the touch 684 00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:14.210 and feel. Ethan's got the copy there, which I love, and Paul 685 00:49:14.289 --> 00:49:17.570 Schmit, my narrator, did an amazing job narrating for me, even one 686 00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:21.690 little sentence about being pregnant, which you know, that's a whole nother story 687 00:49:21.730 --> 00:49:23.880 and we can talk about another time. If you'd like to get ahold of 688 00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:28.559 me, please do. I'm on Linkedin, I'm on twitter. It's Samantha 689 00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:35.400 Stone, really accessible. My email address is Samantha Dot Stone at Marketing Advisory 690 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.309 Networkcom, and I really I give that out freely because I want people to 691 00:49:39.429 --> 00:49:45.550 reach out and ask questions and there's just nothing better than helping your ideas come 692 00:49:45.630 --> 00:49:51.070 to life in a particular organization. So look forward to meeting all your listeners. 693 00:49:51.630 --> 00:49:53.260 Awesome. It's funny. I used to be a little bit tentative about 694 00:49:53.260 --> 00:49:57.940 giving out my email address as I guessed on in conversations like these, and 695 00:49:58.300 --> 00:50:01.659 then you realize someone a if they made it this far, they're obviously into 696 00:50:01.699 --> 00:50:05.900 it and be if they're really into it, I want to talk to them 697 00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:08.530 right it's a privilege, and so anyway, you can also reach me Ethan 698 00:50:08.650 --> 00:50:14.210 etch a and at Bombombcom hit me up on Linkedin, Ethan Butte, and 699 00:50:14.530 --> 00:50:17.690 I everything that Samantha just said. I will include. I write up these 700 00:50:17.769 --> 00:50:22.760 episodes at Bombombcom podcast. I also drop in some video clips. So I 701 00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.400 know there were some visual moments in this one. I'll do my best to 702 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:29.800 try to find those that include them just to kind of bring the episodes to 703 00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:31.760 life. So I appreciate everyone for listening. Samantha, I appreciate your time 704 00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:35.829 so much today. Yeah, thank you so much. I Hey, if 705 00:50:35.909 --> 00:50:38.710 you do nothing else but connect a still that doesn't show me like up my 706 00:50:38.869 --> 00:50:40.989 nose or something, I'll be happy. I don't know what it is, 707 00:50:42.510 --> 00:50:45.949 but everybody collects that one thunnail that you don't want. But thank you to 708 00:50:46.030 --> 00:50:50.579 your listeners for listening. This is a time of uncertainty and I'm so grateful 709 00:50:50.699 --> 00:50:53.900 to have a collaboration with you to talk about and just ignore allegit and to 710 00:50:54.019 --> 00:50:58.780 remind us all that this is about human connection. Video can play a very 711 00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:02.699 important role for us as we're going through this moments, weeks, possibly months 712 00:51:02.739 --> 00:51:08.929 of uncertainty and come together as a community. Well said, Samantha's advice and 713 00:51:09.210 --> 00:51:15.969 success story around video are so powerful. If you're not yet using simple personal 714 00:51:15.050 --> 00:51:20.360 videos to connect and communicate with people, I encourage you to do so and 715 00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:23.679 if you want the definitive guide to this process, pick up a copy of 716 00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:30.880 rehumanize Your Business, hardcover, digital or audiobook. Search rehumanize your business at 717 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:40.949 Amazon or visit bombombcom book. That's bomb bombcom book. My name is Ethan 718 00:51:42.030 --> 00:51:45.429 Butt. I coauthored rehumanize Your Business and I thank you so much for listening 719 00:51:45.789 --> 00:51:52.579 to the B tob growth show. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their 720 00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:57.099 listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews are 721 00:51:57.219 --> 00:52:00.860 enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we 722 00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:04.050 decided to do. If you leave a review for be tob growth and apple 723 00:52:04.130 --> 00:52:08.090 podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James At sweetfish Mediacom, 724 00:52:08.409 --> 00:52:12.730 I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, content based networking, 725 00:52:13.010 --> 00:52:15.400 how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, 726 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:17.559 you get a free book. We both win.