#CX 52: Building Relationships by Creating Content w/ James Carbary

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:09.910 Content based networking essentially is content collaboration with the exact people that you want to 2 00:00:09.990 --> 00:00:15.990 know. So in a sales context, that's potential customers. The fact that 3 00:00:16.350 --> 00:00:22.260 this episode exists is one hundred percent of function of content based networking, and 4 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:25.859 our guest, who you should be familiar with as a listener to the B 5 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:31.140 Tob Growth Show, is James Carberry, cohost of this show, founder of 6 00:00:31.219 --> 00:00:36.689 Sweet Fish Media and author of the book content based networking, how to instantly 7 00:00:36.850 --> 00:00:42.049 connect with anyone you want to know. James and I built our relationship on 8 00:00:42.250 --> 00:00:47.929 content collaboration. We're both customers of each other's service. We've both guested on 9 00:00:48.090 --> 00:00:52.640 each other's shows and you can do the same thing. My name is ethanviewed. 10 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:57.159 I'm chief of angelist at bomb bomb, host of the customer experience podcast 11 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:02.240 and host of the CX series here on B Tob Growth. The process you're 12 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:07.230 about to learn about is no lose. The worst case scenario is you build 13 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:11.629 a relationship and you create some content. Here's my conversation with James about content 14 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:19.700 based networking. We knew that we needed to connect with VP's of marketing at 15 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:23.659 be tob technology companies with fifty plus employees. That's a line from a new 16 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:27.659 book called content based networking. It's author and our guest today, wanted to 17 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:33.569 old relationships and create content with his ideal customers. As Swee Fish Media, 18 00:01:33.769 --> 00:01:38.090 it's a company he founded that produces podcast for B tob brands. Turns out 19 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:42.890 that was me, a VP of marketing at a Bobtech company with fifty plus 20 00:01:42.969 --> 00:01:47.719 employees. Nearly four years later, here we are. We're friends, we've 21 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:52.040 spent time in person several times, where each each other's customers, and we've 22 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:57.159 produced several pieces of content together. So what you're listening to right now is 23 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.989 both a consequence of and a demonstration of content based networking. It's all very 24 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:07.310 Meta. James car very, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Man, 25 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:12.270 I legitimately have goose chills right now, and that was that was probably the 26 00:02:12.349 --> 00:02:15.340 best intro I've ever heard in my life. Thank you so much. That 27 00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:20.099 that is that's incredible. Sure, I mean, and none of it is 28 00:02:20.180 --> 00:02:23.539 really about what an awesome person you are. We could have gone down that 29 00:02:23.620 --> 00:02:25.460 road to but here we are. It's so great to have you on the 30 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:30.449 show. It's a show that your team is kind enough and excellent at producing. 31 00:02:30.810 --> 00:02:32.930 For me in the team here at bombomb it's a pleasure to be your 32 00:02:32.930 --> 00:02:38.090 customer and so we'll start with you where we always start with everyone, which 33 00:02:38.129 --> 00:02:42.169 is your thoughts on customer experience. Like, what is that when I say 34 00:02:42.210 --> 00:02:45.919 customer experience, what does that mean to you? Yeah, so I read 35 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:50.599 a book probably about a year ago called never lose a customer again by Joey 36 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.159 Coleman. You've had them on the show. We're both big fans of Joey 37 00:02:53.759 --> 00:03:00.310 and when I think about customer experience, so much of my thinking really comes 38 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:05.030 from what I learned in that book. Joey walks through eight phases that a 39 00:03:06.310 --> 00:03:09.909 customer goes through and I think up until reading that book I thought that, 40 00:03:10.710 --> 00:03:15.860 you know, I've been spending the bulk of my time thinking about really before 41 00:03:15.939 --> 00:03:21.340 people become customers, right, it's the sales and marketing. What's the experience 42 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:24.659 leading up to someone being a customer? And in Reading Joey's book and seeing 43 00:03:24.699 --> 00:03:30.330 that that's really only that's that's stage one, but it's only one of eight 44 00:03:30.530 --> 00:03:36.090 stages and after reading that book we started really thinking about what are ways that 45 00:03:36.210 --> 00:03:42.800 we can be intentional and thoughtful throughout the entire customer experience. And another kind 46 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.159 of big takeaway from me from that book, and it's really shaped answering your 47 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:51.120 question what I think about customer experiences. Instead of you know, so often 48 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:54.439 in companies you celebrate when you you know, close a new deal, when 49 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:59.789 that new business you bring the sales gone, you do all the celebratory things 50 00:03:59.830 --> 00:04:02.789 there. But what Joey says in the book is you should actually be not 51 00:04:03.069 --> 00:04:10.860 celebrating until you get the first result for your customer, because that's that's why 52 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:14.939 they signed up, was to get an actual result from your product or from 53 00:04:14.939 --> 00:04:18.779 your service, and so just reoriented our thinking around that. So it's a 54 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:25.129 probably a much longer answer than than that I should have given and but, 55 00:04:25.850 --> 00:04:29.329 but that's how I think about it. It's customer experience is getting a result 56 00:04:29.410 --> 00:04:32.529 for your customer and I think doing that, doing that in a way that 57 00:04:32.689 --> 00:04:38.089 is thoughtful and intentional, is how really I think about customer experience. It's 58 00:04:38.129 --> 00:04:41.800 awesome. That was a great book and I was so glad to have them 59 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:44.199 on the show. So actually those are great answers, as long as it 60 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.480 was because a you've left people with something they can do. Go read. 61 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.279 Never lose a customer again or check out. I forget which episode it is, 62 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.430 is somewhere in the teens on this show. To get into that. 63 00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:57.149 And you're exactly right. As so many business smiles, you'll you and I 64 00:04:57.310 --> 00:05:00.269 both have in the businesses that we're in. You founded yours. I work 65 00:05:00.350 --> 00:05:04.149 in mind. It's recurring revenue, right, it's you know, you need 66 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:08.060 that. You want that person to stay for three years, five years, 67 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:10.660 eight years and then, of course all the other good things. And so 68 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:17.100 it's especially important to have that mindset of impact and new impact and repeated impact, 69 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:21.089 or results is the word you use. So love it. Great reference. 70 00:05:21.970 --> 00:05:25.850 So talk about that practically. Maybe give one or two things, like 71 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:31.810 what did you do inside sweet fish media specifically toward this effort? Yeah, 72 00:05:31.930 --> 00:05:38.040 so getting your figuring out in that book and never lose a customer again. 73 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:43.399 They talked about this feeling of buyers remorse and we sell into larger company. 74 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.560 So these are companies that, you know, they're their marketing decision makers, 75 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.589 but in a lot of ways this is you know, this is a really 76 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:54.550 big risk for them. So they're you know, they're CMO is going to 77 00:05:54.589 --> 00:05:58.149 be looking at this initiative. You know, in six months or a year 78 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:01.310 and they're going to be held accountable to hey, did this podcast idea that 79 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:05.339 you have actually work? And so when a marketer makes a decision to work 80 00:06:05.379 --> 00:06:09.899 with us, there are real life consequences for that and because of that, 81 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:14.540 there's a common emotion that comes along with making a big purchase decision and it's 82 00:06:14.620 --> 00:06:16.779 fires remorse. And so when I read that part of the book I thought, 83 00:06:16.819 --> 00:06:21.730 man, what can we do to help alleviate that fires remorse that our 84 00:06:21.769 --> 00:06:27.009 customers are inevitably feeling whenever they sign a contract to work with us for, 85 00:06:27.370 --> 00:06:30.850 you know, six months or a year, and when that's hot? Man, 86 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:33.079 we have a really we have a really fun culture. We've got a 87 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:39.639 really friendly team. What if we sent these little videos shortly after someone, 88 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:43.560 you know, sign sign the deal and we got them introduced to their producer 89 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.990 and started our process. But if we just sent a little video that said, 90 00:06:47.310 --> 00:06:50.110 you know, hey, sally and the rest of the team at, 91 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:54.990 you know, Xyz Corp, I'm going to be your producer, really looking 92 00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:58.149 forward to working with you on this, and then it's pans over to our 93 00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:01.259 COO who says hello, and it's a personalized greeting. And so we started 94 00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:04.939 doing these and honestly, you know, Ethan, it had such a bigger 95 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:10.579 impact than we get more comments on that little two minute video that we send 96 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:14.660 that shows the faces of six or seven people from our team then we do 97 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:17.529 from so many other things that we've done. I mean we've done these elaborate, 98 00:07:18.009 --> 00:07:21.889 you know, paintings for new customers where we put their face next to 99 00:07:23.649 --> 00:07:27.529 Oprah and Ellen and Jimmy Fallon and we had, you know, some people 100 00:07:27.649 --> 00:07:31.160 that acknowledge that they got it, but most people, you didn't really say 101 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:35.959 anything about it. These videos that we send it blows people away and you 102 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:41.839 can just tell like there's so much more excited about getting started when they've seen 103 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:46.269 this little video. So that's one. That's one little kind of micro thing 104 00:07:46.430 --> 00:07:50.589 that we've incorporated into our customer experience in terms of delivering the result. One 105 00:07:50.709 --> 00:07:56.709 thing that we did was really tighten up our launch processes so that we could, 106 00:07:56.949 --> 00:08:00.540 we could, from our side, be able to confidently say we are 107 00:08:00.620 --> 00:08:03.060 doing everything we can to be able to get your show live within thirty to 108 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:05.819 forty five days, because we know that if we can get your show up 109 00:08:05.899 --> 00:08:11.100 and going in you a very brief time window, then you're going to start 110 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:15.529 seeing the results of the relationships for forming with your guests, the content that's 111 00:08:15.529 --> 00:08:18.370 coming out of that that you're you know, that were repurposing on Linkedin for 112 00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:22.089 you, those types of things. So tightening up that launch process and then 113 00:08:22.250 --> 00:08:26.050 those little videos that we started doing both have been game changers from a customer 114 00:08:26.089 --> 00:08:28.279 experience. You know it. You know it warms my heart to hear you 115 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:33.399 say how effective a simple video is. I love the one that I received 116 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.879 because it's and I we will not have a gift ology conversation. I hear 117 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.120 that's a separate episode and you're a master of it. But it was, 118 00:08:41.549 --> 00:08:43.549 you know, it was about me and you have a distributed team and so 119 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:46.909 I got to see all these different people and if I need to reach out 120 00:08:46.950 --> 00:08:50.909 or like, they're real people now. They're not just email signatures or titles 121 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:54.750 or whatever. It's just such a nice swarm touch. Love it. Thanks 122 00:08:54.750 --> 00:08:58.179 for those examples. Let's switch over to content based networking, but stay in 123 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:01.419 the same zone here. When I read contest content based networking, which was 124 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.580 a great read, so fun, super practical, really good stories, tips, 125 00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:09.610 tactics, etc. It immediately occurred to me that it flips a couple 126 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:13.970 big pieces of customer experience on its head, especially up and kind of like 127 00:09:15.090 --> 00:09:18.450 that prospecting area. That's kind of like the networking part of it. Is 128 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:22.049 like let's get to know each other. But how do you think about content 129 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:24.919 based networking relative to customer experienced? If I mash those two things together, 130 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:28.120 is that do anything for you? Is that interested? Yeah, yeah, 131 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.960 so I think it has a lot to do with it, just because so 132 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.360 much of customer experience, I mean the title of Your Book, You know, 133 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:41.750 rehumanize your business like it's it's humanizing a mode of communication. And when 134 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:45.669 you think about when you think about like business development and sales and the stuff 135 00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:48.230 that happens on the on the front end, like the prospecting activity, that's 136 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:54.059 typically a very unt we've made it a very inhuman thing. We send out 137 00:09:54.379 --> 00:09:58.940 these mass blast emails where we put a token in for their first name and 138 00:09:58.019 --> 00:10:03.419 maybe their company name, but you can smell those things from a mile away, 139 00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:07.970 as opposed to flipping it a little bit and saying, Hey, what 140 00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:11.409 if I actually wanted what if I actually tried collaborating with this person to create 141 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:16.529 some content with them, knowing that that's ultimately going to create a relationship that 142 00:10:16.649 --> 00:10:20.210 could actually turn into business, and you alluded to I mean that's how I 143 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.200 met you and we were doing a virtual summit. It wasn't even you weren't 144 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:26.080 even a guest are O podcast. For a while after that you were guests 145 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.799 are virtual summit that we were doing, and I think it was content summit 146 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:35.080 seventeen or something. So is three years ago, and through that we built 147 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.389 a meaningful relationship. We talked about podcasting a little bit at the end of 148 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:41.669 that conversation and but it was, I think, a year or two down 149 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:46.110 the road before we ended up working together. And and that's okay because we 150 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.460 created this genuine human connection and I think when you think about customer experience, 151 00:10:50.539 --> 00:10:54.539 it's so much about humanizing the experience. That's why I love so much and 152 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:58.980 why we use mom bomb that sweetfish is because it humanizes the interaction in a 153 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:05.289 way that very it's really hard to do, but I think content collaboration takes 154 00:11:05.409 --> 00:11:09.809 that to even even another level of actually like being able to work on a 155 00:11:09.850 --> 00:11:13.649 piece of content together with someone that makes the person you're wanting to connect with 156 00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:18.529 look awesome. Yeah, it's so good. I actually missed the step. 157 00:11:18.570 --> 00:11:22.320 I should have asked you to give a just a definition like it. You 158 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.480 define it very nicely and concisely in the book a couple different times and even 159 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:28.200 a couple different ways. But for folks that are listening right now, what 160 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:35.909 is content based networking? Yeah, so content based networking essentially is content collaboration 161 00:11:35.509 --> 00:11:39.110 with the exact people that you want to know. So in a sales context, 162 00:11:39.389 --> 00:11:45.190 that's potential customers. So if you're selling to if you're set, you 163 00:11:45.350 --> 00:11:48.460 like us, if you're selling to be piece of marketing at BB tech companies 164 00:11:48.500 --> 00:11:50.980 with fifty pos and bullies, go and create content with those people like we 165 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:54.899 do on our show. Be To be growth or variety. We've done virtual 166 00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:58.539 summits, we've done a lot of different things where we can collaborate with them. 167 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:01.570 But it also trade. Transcends that to even because you, if you're 168 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:05.929 you know, if you're a college student that just graduated and you really want 169 00:12:05.929 --> 00:12:09.649 to work at a particular company in your city, that's one awards like bombomb 170 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:13.009 has best. You know best place to work. You want to work there. 171 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:15.169 How do you do it? Well, what if you? What have 172 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:18.200 you came up with a series of videos that you did on Youtube where you 173 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.480 interviewed a bunch of hiring managers at all the different best places to work in 174 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.879 your city or in your region or whatever, creating content with those hiring managers. 175 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:33.149 You created a for those relationships. There's a pretty good chance you're probably 176 00:12:33.190 --> 00:12:35.549 going to have your resume is going to go to the top of the stack 177 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:39.269 whenever those company start hiring for position that you're interested in. Can also, 178 00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:41.429 you know, it can work in politics. It can work, you know, 179 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:43.429 and this is one of the stories in the book, if you're, 180 00:12:43.909 --> 00:12:48.460 you know, an aspiring actor, connecting with casting directors in your city and 181 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.659 creating content with casting directors about what it takes to be a successful casting director. 182 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:56.700 Naturally you're creating friendships with the people that are going to hire, hopefully 183 00:12:56.740 --> 00:13:03.129 your next role, and so it applies well outside of well outside of you 184 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.929 know, a sales contact. It's also incredible for marketers because you're getting insight 185 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:13.240 into the minds and the brains of your potential and existing customers, understanding what 186 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.240 makes them tick and there and what are their challenge what their challenges are because 187 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:18.960 of the content that's coming out of it. So there's a lot of different 188 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.039 use case is, but at the end of the day it's content. Collaboration 189 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.120 with the exact people that you want to know great, and one of the 190 00:13:26.149 --> 00:13:31.509 chapters ends with a really nice it's almost it's full page of examples like you 191 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:33.870 just offered. There's like it's so useful in a variety of ways, and 192 00:13:35.669 --> 00:13:37.629 one of my favorite things came toward the end, which was this is a 193 00:13:37.710 --> 00:13:43.500 can't lose situation. The very worst case scenario is if you pursue this and 194 00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:46.659 pursue it for a little bit, you're going to wind up with some new 195 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:48.539 relationships and you're going to wind up with some content. That's the worst case. 196 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:52.379 It is so good, right good. I just wanted to lay that 197 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:54.139 out for folks who are listening it. Like I just, you know, 198 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.970 read the book, Love The book and so I'm all steeped in it. 199 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:01.250 Needed to back out there and make sure everyone knew we were talking about before 200 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:03.409 you go, because what I would like to do with this conversation is there 201 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:07.250 like four are like high level themes that I loved in the book, and 202 00:14:07.370 --> 00:14:11.320 so I'm just going to kind of walk through each of those and maybe just 203 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.480 get a little bit of reaction from you or you know, elaborate or whatever, 204 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.399 and the first one is something. The first two are what I call 205 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:20.320 this theme, is what I call you make your own luck. And so 206 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.509 here's a quote from Oprah, just to illustrate. You Lean on Oprah a 207 00:14:24.549 --> 00:14:28.149 little bit in the book. Luck is a matter of preparation, meeting opportunity, 208 00:14:28.190 --> 00:14:31.830 Ray CROC from McDonald's. Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more 209 00:14:31.870 --> 00:14:37.549 you sweat, the luckier you get. Ralph Waldo Emerson, great thinker. 210 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:41.500 Shallow people believe in luck or circumstance. Strong people believe in cause and effect, 211 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:46.539 right and so all of that stuff just really spoke to me because you 212 00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:50.100 really draw this line between Sara and dip. It be luck and hope versus 213 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:56.450 intention, action and working backward. Talk about why that's so important for you 214 00:14:56.529 --> 00:14:58.289 personally and then also, of course, what that means in this in this 215 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.610 context of content based networking. Yeah, I love I love that you brought 216 00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:07.279 this up. Ethan as is super important to me. Again, I've got 217 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.519 got got goose shows thinking about this concept. This is our third core value 218 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.679 in our business. We have three court values. Love people well, never 219 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.679 stop learning, and the third one is own the result and that's really what 220 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:22.190 this is about. So in our context it has to do with owning customer 221 00:15:22.230 --> 00:15:26.110 results and owning the results of different different facets with the business, but this 222 00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:31.190 concept is really owning the result of your life. One of our court values 223 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:35.190 for our family is right your story, I think. I think we have 224 00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:39.299 a lot more to say about the path that we go down in life then 225 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:43.139 oftentimes a lot of people give themselves credit for. And instead of letting life 226 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:46.740 happen to you, I believe that you can be a more active participant in 227 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:52.049 your own life and that you can make decisions and choices much more intentionally and 228 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.250 thoughtfully about what you want to be doing. I you know, there's there's 229 00:15:56.289 --> 00:16:00.850 these two stats that boggle my mind that you know, we spend ninetyzero hours 230 00:16:00.889 --> 00:16:06.159 of our life at work, but eighty seven percent of Americans have no passion 231 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:10.039 for what they do. And I think, man ninetyzero hours, that is 232 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.799 a lot of time. And so many people just let their career happen to 233 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.870 them. They let what this thing they do from nine to five happened to 234 00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:22.710 them because they happen to get this degree in accounting and then they got this 235 00:16:22.870 --> 00:16:26.309 internship out of college and they just stuck around at the Company for twelve years 236 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:30.429 because it was easy and but they hate going to work every day, they 237 00:16:30.470 --> 00:16:34.100 hate doing what they do. And so in the book I really wanted to 238 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:40.980 open people's minds to thinking. Everyone says that relationships are so important. It's 239 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:45.220 you know that your your net worth is defined by your network and all these 240 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:51.409 different tropes around the you know when you know the right person, things happen, 241 00:16:52.009 --> 00:16:55.889 but there's I don't feel like there's anybody saying that. Well, how 242 00:16:55.929 --> 00:17:00.330 do you actually create those right relationships? Everybody saying that relationships are really important, 243 00:17:00.330 --> 00:17:02.519 and then we should all we should all know people. It's not what 244 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.480 you know to you know. Well, how do I know who I want 245 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.839 to know? And this strategy, this approach, methodology, whatever you want 246 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.720 to call it, allows you to take that into your own hands, because 247 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:17.069 you're not waiting on the person that you want to know to happen, to 248 00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:19.150 run into them, and an in person event, at a conference, Chamber 249 00:17:19.190 --> 00:17:23.150 of Commerce, meeting, whatever, you're proactively putting the illness on. You 250 00:17:23.789 --> 00:17:27.069 say, man, what content can I go out and create with this person? 251 00:17:27.390 --> 00:17:30.220 It was everybody going to say yes to you. If you're trying to 252 00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:34.180 collaborate with Bill Gates on a content project, the likelihood Bill Gates says yes 253 00:17:34.220 --> 00:17:38.140 to you and you know, unless you're unless you're someone as cool as Ethan, 254 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:44.059 probably not going to happen. But there's so many there's so much opportunity 255 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:48.450 here because and you're putting the responsibility on yourself. Is posed to making excuses 256 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:53.170 or giving someone else the ownership of your life and your story and what you 257 00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:56.730 want to accomplish. So that's what I love so much about that. I'm 258 00:17:56.769 --> 00:17:59.519 glad you brought that up. Good. Yeah, it is a really powerful 259 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.480 theme start to finish. I mean you know, even just the way I 260 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:06.039 open this podcast, the level of intention of it. First you started reaching 261 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.519 out to sales people and then you're like, oh wait, no, they're 262 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.559 referring me to marketer, so let's go, you know, talk to CMOS. 263 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.190 You're like, Oh wait, this decision isn't being made in the CMO 264 00:18:14.269 --> 00:18:15.869 seat, it's VP's of marketing. is where this is going to have like 265 00:18:17.109 --> 00:18:18.910 just like that level of intention, you make your own luck. Good one 266 00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:23.910 number two. This is what I call be a value and abundance will follow. 267 00:18:25.789 --> 00:18:30.059 And this is that's a that's a mantra or a philosophy or mission statement 268 00:18:30.099 --> 00:18:32.900 of our marketing team here at bombomb that we generated, I don't know, 269 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.660 maybe a year and a half ago. But I felt like in the book 270 00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:40.019 there's this really strong theme of focusing on the process, not on the outcome, 271 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:44.049 focusing on the relationship, not on the transaction. And again, that 272 00:18:44.170 --> 00:18:48.049 cut that worst case scenario deal where it's like, you know, you get 273 00:18:48.049 --> 00:18:49.890 a relationship and you get content. That's the worst thing that's going to happen 274 00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:53.049 to me. So this idea of you know, I feel like we spend 275 00:18:53.089 --> 00:18:56.680 so much time focused on and like you were talking about even in defining customer 276 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.880 experience, is like, you know, we were so focused on getting the 277 00:18:59.960 --> 00:19:03.480 sale and what that meant was we were losing sight of, you know, 278 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:07.680 the rest of the relationship. Talk a little bit about focusing on the process 279 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.990 more so than the outcome. Like I feel like if you invest in relationships, 280 00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:14.950 good things are going to happen, especially if you do it at this 281 00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:17.589 level of intention. Yeah, it's one of the thing. You know, 282 00:19:17.670 --> 00:19:21.470 I put my I put my phone number in the back of the book and 283 00:19:21.670 --> 00:19:25.539 it's been really in there twice. Yeah, it's been it's been really fun 284 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:29.259 just getting text messages from people that are reading it. And this weekend I 285 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:32.259 was I got a text from a guy and never met him before read the 286 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:37.700 book and he asked me to James, how you know, how long should 287 00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:41.369 I expect it to take before I close a deal from one of these relationships? 288 00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:44.369 And as soon as he said it, I get I get it, 289 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:47.890 I empathize with it. Right like you're doing, you're doing a strategy because 290 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:49.009 you want to get you want to get results from it. But as soon 291 00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:53.519 as he asked I thought like I hope he doesn't Miss It. I hope 292 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:59.640 he doesn't miss the macro reason why you're doing this. And he ended up 293 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:02.039 circling back and he's like, I know, I know, it's all about 294 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.240 the relationships. I just kind of want to mentally I have an idea of, 295 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.750 you know, what I should expect or what a benchmark was, what 296 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:11.549 a benchmark would be. And but I think focusing on the process of like 297 00:20:11.710 --> 00:20:18.269 a systematic approach of creating relationship after relationship after relationship that if you're if you're 298 00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:22.259 approaching relationships with the right people, with people that can actually make a decision 299 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.700 for your product or service, you're naturally going to either create a piece of 300 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:30.940 content that attracts that person that you maybe you didn't even have them on your 301 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:36.089 show, but the content you created attracted that person, which happens, or 302 00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:40.490 you end up talking to someone that can work with you and that sometimes that 303 00:20:40.650 --> 00:20:42.410 takes six days, like it a story that I shared in the book. 304 00:20:42.609 --> 00:20:45.769 Sometimes it takes, you know, a year and a half, like you 305 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:49.759 know our situation of you and I have but people. The thing I'll say 306 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:56.039 about focusing on the process is people can smell in authenticity from a mile away. 307 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.799 Again, I don't want this to be a bombomb INFO, Marshal, 308 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.349 but the reason that, like your videos, when you send a bombomb video 309 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:08.069 to me and and anyone else that you're sending them to, your authenticity shines 310 00:21:08.269 --> 00:21:15.430 through in such a powerful way that it covers up. It covers up so 311 00:21:15.710 --> 00:21:22.420 many, so many other things that can be misunderstood when you're on a podcast 312 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:25.779 interview or whether you're doing a virtual summit or a blog or an instagram, 313 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:29.140 you know, series with somebody, if you're collaborating with somebody, are in 314 00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:33.089 content and they can sniff like, Oh, you just ask me to do 315 00:21:33.210 --> 00:21:34.930 this because you want to sell me your widget, or you want to sell 316 00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:38.890 me on your coaching program or, you know whatever, they're not going to 317 00:21:38.970 --> 00:21:41.289 want to work with you again. They might be nice to and like Oh 318 00:21:41.329 --> 00:21:45.170 yeah, that's that's that. You know will think about it, but they're 319 00:21:45.170 --> 00:21:48.000 going to have a bad taste in their mouth and it's ultimately going to damage 320 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:53.880 your reputation long term. Where if you are genuinely going into it with the 321 00:21:55.039 --> 00:22:00.000 intent of creating really good content, that's going to be super helpful to the 322 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.630 persona that you're trying to serve and you're trying to make them look great in 323 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:08.869 the process. When that's your focus, exactly what you said, even the 324 00:22:10.190 --> 00:22:15.150 the natural byproduct is that people will want to work with you. And so 325 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:18.140 if you're looking at this and you're coming out of it going, okay, 326 00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:21.339 we can, we can test this and we've got, you know, x 327 00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:23.380 number of months until you know we have to produce a deal out of it, 328 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:27.779 that's going to produce the wrong kind of behavior. And if you start 329 00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:30.009 doing this and you're saying, Hey, we're going to have our sales team 330 00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:36.769 the cohost of a show and and really all you're doing is is a veiled 331 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:41.369 attempt at getting on a discovery call. People are going to see it and 332 00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:45.440 it's just it's not going to work long term. So I appreciate you you 333 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:49.240 bringing that up, because that's that's honestly a fear of mine and why there's 334 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:53.839 very few reasons that I don't like talking about this, because I think it 335 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.119 can be. It's transformative. Obviously I wrote a book about it. I'm 336 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:03.309 super passionate about it. But the one thing that scares me is this methodology 337 00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:11.069 or this this approach in in the hands of someone that is not authentic or 338 00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:15.019 doesn't actually care about relationships with people, can go very, very wrong and 339 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:19.259 it can actually be very damaging. Yeah, it's I like you offer that 340 00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:22.500 caution. I actually see the same thing with video. You know, I 341 00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:26.140 the text you got where I'm glad the guy came around a little bit, 342 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:29.250 but this this. So how long is it going to take to turn this 343 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:33.130 into money? Right now, get the seat. Like when someone's follow up 344 00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:37.289 question for me about, you know, sending these simple, casual conversational videos 345 00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:41.559 to bombomb when they're like, Um, can I make it seem like it's 346 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.799 just for that person by faking something in the beginning of the video, but 347 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.960 it's actually for everybody'm like, you're doing it wrong, man, like there's 348 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.599 some videos that should be ever green and it's okay, but just don't act 349 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.589 like there's something else. Yeah, really good caution. There saves number two. 350 00:23:56.710 --> 00:24:00.069 Number three, journalism and journalistic work. You use this language a lot 351 00:24:00.109 --> 00:24:03.670 and I really like it. I mean a I used to work with journalists 352 00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:07.109 and running marketing inside local TV stations. I guess some people might roll their 353 00:24:07.150 --> 00:24:11.900 eyes or ask questions about how journalistic that is, but I work with some 354 00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:15.380 legitimate, awesome journalists in my career and so and and I really like the 355 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:21.940 way that translates into content creation and distribution, you know, and all the 356 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:25.210 various forms you talk about in this book. So talk a little bit about 357 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:27.210 journalism and like why do you like that language? How did you adopt it? 358 00:24:27.369 --> 00:24:30.369 And you had a couple great examples in there too. This, this 359 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:33.609 is actually this piggybacks really well off what we were just talking about. I 360 00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:38.640 think the more journalistic your approach is to the content collaboration that you're doing with 361 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:42.920 the folks that you want to connect with, think the more the more journalistic, 362 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:48.680 the more it worms the other person to you when they see that you 363 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:53.069 are serious, taking the content very seriously. Not, obviously you don't want 364 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:56.630 to take it so serious that it makes somebody uncomfortable, but when they see 365 00:24:56.670 --> 00:25:00.589 that you've done your homework, like you do this masterfully. Well, even 366 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:03.990 we talk to other customers about how well you do this. But the amount 367 00:25:03.990 --> 00:25:07.900 of research that you do go you know, on the person that you're about 368 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:12.420 to talk to. You're referencing things from earlier in their career or from content 369 00:25:12.500 --> 00:25:18.539 that they've created elsewhere. That subcommunicates something to the guests that Oh, this, 370 00:25:19.339 --> 00:25:23.250 this is, this is the real deal, this person really cares about 371 00:25:23.289 --> 00:25:27.769 the content that's being created here. One it kind of set it leveled it 372 00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:30.849 up, levels the bar of like, Oh man, I really need to 373 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:34.250 deliver here, because this is this is going to be this is really good 374 00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:37.240 stuff. The host has done their work. Now I need to show up 375 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:42.839 and do the work for me. So it's creating trust on a different level. 376 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.920 When you approach this from a very from a journalistic standpoint, like when 377 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.390 you're really caring about the content. That translates to how the guests then sees 378 00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:57.509 you and which which you if they're if they're trusting you during the creation of 379 00:25:57.589 --> 00:26:02.150 the content. Then the after effect and what happens, you know, in 380 00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:06.740 the Post interview conversation or the second or third time that you guys end up 381 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:10.940 talking, because now your friends, because you've created this content, it's going 382 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:15.500 to translate there because they see you as a journalist and not somebody just trying 383 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:19.410 to sell something or somebody trying to get a job or somebody you know that 384 00:26:19.609 --> 00:26:23.930 the what, whatever it is that that your ultimate dream is and and the 385 00:26:25.009 --> 00:26:26.650 thing that you want to accomplish. You want them to not see you as 386 00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:30.690 somebody just trying to reach that, but somebody that's truly trying to create exceptional 387 00:26:30.809 --> 00:26:34.680 content. And so when you look at this from a journalistic really trying to 388 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:41.319 hone in on your journalistic skill, just curiosity, asking great questions, knowing 389 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.000 how to do some research, this supplies both on the front end and during 390 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:49.029 the interview. So the front end work of even asking them to be on 391 00:26:49.109 --> 00:26:52.470 the show, we found that if you can do just a little bit of 392 00:26:52.589 --> 00:26:57.029 personalization and say Hey, I read this chapter in your book that was fascinating 393 00:26:57.109 --> 00:27:02.019 to me. I'd love to bring you on the customer experience podcast to talk 394 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:06.339 to you about this idea and how it relates to customer experience. That ask 395 00:27:06.859 --> 00:27:10.900 is so much more likely that the person is going to say yes then if 396 00:27:10.940 --> 00:27:12.940 you just said, hey, I want to have you on my podcast now, 397 00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.569 I want to have you on my podcast, is much as a much 398 00:27:17.609 --> 00:27:19.769 more likely way to engage somebody. Then Hey, I want to get you 399 00:27:19.849 --> 00:27:23.769 on a twenty minute demo of my software product. So you're still you're still 400 00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:27.009 doing it better than most by just asking them to be on your show. 401 00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:30.680 But Man, when you take it to that next level, you say, 402 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.160 Hey, I saw that article you put on Linkedin three months ago and you've 403 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.319 said something about data Du that, man, I think, I just think 404 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.920 our listeners would get a ton of value out of that, or our audience 405 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:42.559 would get a ton of value out of that. Would your mind, would 406 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:47.430 you be up for doing a fifteen minute conversation about it? And that's that's 407 00:27:47.509 --> 00:27:52.390 being a journalist and that's that's being somebody of values, because, because you're 408 00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:56.309 the value that you bring as a journalist is that you can bring awareness to 409 00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:02.299 somebody's thoughts, ideas, passions, and there's very few people that don't want 410 00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:10.019 exposure for their ideas. For today's gross story we're talking about. All date, 411 00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:15.049 I'll stay, offers best in class products and services that provide innovative protection 412 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:19.490 and retirement solutions to millions of households nationwide. But when all state needed to 413 00:28:19.609 --> 00:28:23.849 increase traffic and conversion rates on their website, they knew they should turn to 414 00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:29.400 the pros at Directive. 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Sign up today at Directive Consultingcom 423 00:29:07.299 --> 00:29:11.369 Institute and get your first four lessons on us. Once again, that's directive 424 00:29:11.450 --> 00:29:17.890 Consultingcom Institute. To get for free lessons from the pros. All right, 425 00:29:18.009 --> 00:29:22.130 let's get back to the show. I'm just going to read you a line 426 00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:26.240 from from your book just because I this is just a nice little button on 427 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.359 it. Curiosity, passion and a focus on great content or what make a 428 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.839 journalist to journalists, not fancy equipment. You know, I think a lot 429 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.680 of people hang themselves up. The other thing I was thinking about in reading 430 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.349 through that section, a couple sections that really focused on this what you just 431 00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:45.589 offered, is, you know, I felt like the imposter syndrome, right. 432 00:29:45.910 --> 00:29:48.990 I remember when we first started selling our software, I was going into 433 00:29:49.029 --> 00:29:53.940 communities and specific industries and and teaching video in their language and I was like, 434 00:29:55.579 --> 00:29:56.420 you know, I'm a little bit of an imposter here. So you 435 00:29:56.500 --> 00:30:00.420 just interview some customers and get to know it. Like, honestly, I 436 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:03.099 did not know a ton about customer experience, but I was very, very 437 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:07.490 curious and I knew that it was very important, and so I felt a 438 00:30:07.529 --> 00:30:08.970 little bit like an imposter. Mean, when you get a guy like Joey 439 00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:11.930 Coleman on the show, you're like, man, this guy's been been teaching 440 00:30:12.049 --> 00:30:18.410 and training customer experience for years, you know. But then you realize my 441 00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:22.599 only job is to use your language from the book is to shine the spotlight 442 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.039 on him, Yep, unlock his expertise, unlock his unique perspective and just 443 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.400 make him the superstar, and I'm just the vehicle for that and IDA learn 444 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:34.039 the process. It's excellent, which also reminds me of another thing that's great 445 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.269 about the books, this idea of when you hang around experts, you come 446 00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:40.829 to be seen as an expert. Such a such a fun idea, and 447 00:30:40.950 --> 00:30:45.269 it's true. I get called into conversations on Linkedin now specifically because people know 448 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:48.869 that this is what I do all the time, is talk to talk to 449 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.579 people about creating an delivering better experiences. So good. Okay, last one, 450 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:56.819 and you're a master at this. It is how we got to meet 451 00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:02.220 in person the very first time. Talk about the relationship between online and offline. 452 00:31:02.259 --> 00:31:03.690 You do a great job in the book of I mean, first of 453 00:31:03.730 --> 00:31:08.410 all, the chapter on email writing was spot on. As someone who's written 454 00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:12.369 a mountain of emails and taught about email right, that's a great chapter and 455 00:31:12.450 --> 00:31:15.970 so own. But you know, you talk about some online activity and some 456 00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:19.920 offline activity to to generate these conversations and, of course, to do the 457 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.359 to do the content it self. Talk about the relationship between online and offline. 458 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.720 Yeah, so I think there's there's definitely something to be said about the 459 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.710 intimacy that comes whenever you're meeting with somebody in person. Now I'm a I 460 00:31:34.750 --> 00:31:38.670 don't know if you're a five level languages guy, I'm a physical touch guy. 461 00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:44.789 So whenever I meet in person I'm a hugger, so like complete stranger, 462 00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:49.259 you know. So it's especially pertinent for me because a lot, so 463 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:55.220 much of my personality it's just impossible to come through in a digital channel like 464 00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:57.339 this because I can't, you know, I can't. I can't, you 465 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:02.369 know, hug you and like and and be genuine to myself in that way 466 00:32:04.009 --> 00:32:07.130 through a digital platform. Now we've obviously done you know, it's in be 467 00:32:07.250 --> 00:32:10.609 to be growth through. Done over three hundred interviews now so and the lion 468 00:32:10.730 --> 00:32:15.119 share of those probably ninety nine point nine percent of those have been done digitally. 469 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:22.480 So I'm a fan and I love the flexibility and the ability to not 470 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.559 make excuses, so we can talk to anybody. We've had people on the 471 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:30.150 show from Australia, we've had people on the other side of the country and 472 00:32:30.829 --> 00:32:34.589 the only thing stopping it there is time zone. Stuff and that's really easy. 473 00:32:34.710 --> 00:32:37.230 That's a really easy hurdle to overcome. Um, but I think it 474 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:42.750 was last it was year before last we started doing these bb growth dinners where 475 00:32:42.750 --> 00:32:45.539 I was popping into different cities all over the country where I knew we had 476 00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:49.700 guests, and I'm pretty sure that was that was the first time you and 477 00:32:49.779 --> 00:32:54.059 I got to meet up and man, there is just something special about it 478 00:32:54.539 --> 00:33:00.049 being able to be in the same room with somebody. So there's different folks 479 00:33:00.289 --> 00:33:04.289 in in our there there are people in different industries where I think in person 480 00:33:04.450 --> 00:33:08.970 content is the absolute way to go, financial advisors being one, insurance folks 481 00:33:09.009 --> 00:33:14.960 in the insurance space, maybe even like local marketing agencies, folks that serve 482 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:21.000 a local client base, if you serve customers locally, you know, finance, 483 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:27.430 insurance, those those types of roles. Doing a show about successful people 484 00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:30.910 in your city, and you can name it a variety of different ways, 485 00:33:30.950 --> 00:33:36.509 but doing some sort of content where you're highlighting the success stories in your city 486 00:33:36.829 --> 00:33:39.390 and then being able to go up and to their office or meet with them 487 00:33:39.549 --> 00:33:44.980 in person to create content with them, I can guarantee you that the relationship 488 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:50.539 is going to x. But I and its depthness so much faster than it 489 00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:53.579 would if you're doing these digitally. Now, because we've done them digitally so 490 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:58.049 much, there are things we've learned about, like hey, getting to the 491 00:33:58.170 --> 00:34:01.769 second collaboration or the second reason to talk to someone that's not you know, 492 00:34:01.930 --> 00:34:06.769 hey, want to buy my product, is a really important step because when 493 00:34:06.809 --> 00:34:09.360 someone has talked to you more than once, that I've noticed that after that 494 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:14.119 second interaction is really when someone would consider you to be a friend, just 495 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.079 having a oneoff interaction with them. People have a lot of one off interactions. 496 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:21.400 You have a oneoff interaction with the guy that you know that works at 497 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:25.150 the car wash booths that you go to on the on but but but actually 498 00:34:25.670 --> 00:34:30.389 connecting with somebody a second time, whether it's a second content collaboration or's something 499 00:34:30.429 --> 00:34:31.909 else that you're working on, is really powerful. So so, but if 500 00:34:31.909 --> 00:34:37.510 you're in person you get that all in one. It's in that first that 501 00:34:37.670 --> 00:34:42.500 first trip, because because of the power of being in person. So that's 502 00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:45.860 how I think about offline online. I love doing both. Obviously the scale 503 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.420 of offline is enormous. The opportunity of being able to can you know you're 504 00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:53.449 in Coloro Springs? I'm in Orlando, we can still do this content collaboration. 505 00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:58.650 Otherwise wouldn't, wouldn't wouldn't happen very often if we had to wait to 506 00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:00.570 we were in person. So that's why I think about it. That's great. 507 00:35:00.610 --> 00:35:06.369 I knew you were my people, our people, when you're like hey, 508 00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:09.000 you know, I just committing to get on airplane and go to these 509 00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:13.000 cities where I know, I know people that I've collaborated with, just a 510 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.400 metim in person and say it is great and we produce a piece of content 511 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.239 while you're here. Yeah, I link that up. By the way, 512 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:23.110 folks who are listening, I write all of these up at Mombcom podcast, 513 00:35:23.510 --> 00:35:27.789 and so if you want to links, obviously to the book and some of 514 00:35:27.829 --> 00:35:32.829 these other things, but also to probably our third or fourth content collaboration, 515 00:35:32.909 --> 00:35:37.539 I'll drop that on it. So you your core values are obviously very important 516 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:42.860 to you. I know how thoughtful you were about them. They point to 517 00:35:43.099 --> 00:35:47.059 just being a really awesome human but something that I didn't know you had articulated 518 00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:51.929 just as clearly was your mission. So I'm just going to read it and 519 00:35:51.969 --> 00:35:53.889 I love for you just to share some thoughts on it. Our dream at 520 00:35:53.929 --> 00:36:00.449 sweet fish is to educate one million leaders every single day, because when leaders 521 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:05.360 learn, the world gets better. Yes, yeah, so, so this 522 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.639 is something we're super passionate about and it's a relatively new kind of turn for 523 00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:13.480 us as a company. For the past several years we've been a focused on 524 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.909 really being a service provider. So we know podcasting really well and we produce 525 00:36:19.030 --> 00:36:21.590 podcast for companies like bombomb and a lot of, you know, a lot 526 00:36:21.670 --> 00:36:27.150 of other different folks. But really being the the execution of the actual service, 527 00:36:27.750 --> 00:36:30.590 and what we're starting to do more and more of is really we're transforming 528 00:36:30.630 --> 00:36:35.940 into a media company and what that looks like, I think, is transforming 529 00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:38.579 into an education company. So as we start to own more of our own 530 00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:44.579 shows and build audiences for these owned properties and different industries. We've got a 531 00:36:44.659 --> 00:36:46.730 show called the manufacturing show. It's got to be to be still show. 532 00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:51.769 Obviously our flagship show be to be growth for be tob marketers. We're about 533 00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:54.570 to launch the CIO show. So we've got all these different shows to show 534 00:36:54.650 --> 00:36:59.690 for HR and CEOS, called crafting culture. It's all about company culture to 535 00:36:59.809 --> 00:37:02.239 show. I'm really super excited about so as we start to start our own 536 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:07.719 shows, we really thinking, you know, trying to press into why are 537 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:13.000 we doing this and and what? What's the end goal here and the why? 538 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.710 You know, really coming back to what I was saying, those those 539 00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:19.429 two stats, those two stats that I shared earlier. You know, I 540 00:37:19.550 --> 00:37:22.150 want to inspire. I want to inspire people to own their career, because 541 00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:27.750 Ninety Tho hours of your life shouldn't suck. And if I want to inspire 542 00:37:27.750 --> 00:37:30.380 you to own your career, then I think, I think we can educate 543 00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:35.260 you with the type of content we're creating on these shows. And so how 544 00:37:35.300 --> 00:37:38.019 do we hodify that, make that a tangible kind of how do we educate 545 00:37:38.059 --> 00:37:42.659 more people? Well, you want to educate a million people every single day 546 00:37:42.860 --> 00:37:45.650 and that's an audacious goal. From where we're at right now, you be 547 00:37:45.769 --> 00:37:49.369 to be gross getting just over a hundred thousand downloads a month. So it's 548 00:37:49.449 --> 00:37:52.050 not, you know, it's nothing to sneeze at by any means that. 549 00:37:52.090 --> 00:37:55.210 I'm super grateful for the audience we already have. But I think when people 550 00:37:55.210 --> 00:38:00.880 are actively investing and personal and professional development and they're trying to learn and trying 551 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.559 to grow and they're trying to get better, I think the natural byproduct of 552 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.000 that is this feeling of what we talked about earlier in the interview, of 553 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:13.349 like they take ownership of their life and they no longer feel captive to their 554 00:38:13.469 --> 00:38:17.469 situation or their circumstance, but they take control and they start making actions and 555 00:38:17.630 --> 00:38:22.590 decisions that point them in the direction they actually want to go, as opposed 556 00:38:22.590 --> 00:38:27.260 to just being dragged along in life wherever life takes them, and I think 557 00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:30.219 education is a big way to do that. So that's the context there. 558 00:38:30.579 --> 00:38:34.980 That's awesome. It's increasing be difficult to work here at bombomb because I'm surrounded 559 00:38:35.059 --> 00:38:38.059 by people who read a ton of books and listen to a ton of podcast 560 00:38:38.139 --> 00:38:42.130 which is what I do anyway, but now it's like, I'm no joke. 561 00:38:42.210 --> 00:38:45.610 I'm like six books deep, you know, in depending if it's written 562 00:38:45.610 --> 00:38:50.530 by an upcoming guest, after like restack it, you know. So that 563 00:38:50.849 --> 00:38:53.449 a really good one, sitting and spot number five. That's like phase there, 564 00:38:53.530 --> 00:38:58.159 you know. Yep, and you know, texting each other on the 565 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.760 weekends like Hey, you got to hear this episode of this show and you're 566 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:06.079 going to love when this lady shares this thing about that other thing and it's 567 00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:08.760 just really good. It's yes, it makes everything so much more fun and 568 00:39:09.789 --> 00:39:15.670 I love that you have this this education and leadership blend. I'm really excited 569 00:39:15.829 --> 00:39:17.909 for you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean we could, 570 00:39:19.269 --> 00:39:22.550 we could go on and on, honestly, I mean before we hit record 571 00:39:22.590 --> 00:39:25.460 where, you know, yeah, could have just had that conversation over now, 572 00:39:25.699 --> 00:39:29.860 like instantly. But but we're going to we're going to start winding it 573 00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:34.340 down here, and so I'm going to wind down with your opportunity to think 574 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:37.380 or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and to 575 00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:40.329 give a shout out to a company that you really appreciate a respect for the 576 00:39:40.369 --> 00:39:45.449 way they're delivering for you as a customer. Yeah, so I think giving 577 00:39:45.650 --> 00:39:51.769 giving a shout out to someone who's had an impact on me. I would 578 00:39:51.769 --> 00:39:53.719 have to say now, this might be this might be divisive, and I 579 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:59.199 know not at not everybody loves this Guy, but and Gary Vander Chuk has 580 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:04.039 added a level of value you to my life around just helping me think about 581 00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:07.550 things in a different way than I mean to say. He's the been the 582 00:40:07.550 --> 00:40:14.630 largest influence of my entrepreneurial and of tendency or approach. Would be at the 583 00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:19.750 understatement of the century just the idea that patience is everything, that life is 584 00:40:19.909 --> 00:40:23.820 really long. Why am I trying to like make these make these decisions, 585 00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:27.579 like I'm only going to live for, you know, two more years? 586 00:40:27.619 --> 00:40:30.460 It's like, man, the likelihoods I'm going to be around here for a 587 00:40:30.579 --> 00:40:35.139 long time. So slow down a bit, be patient and start building for 588 00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:39.210 the long term, as opposed to being rushed and just making decisions that are 589 00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:43.530 in my short term best interest but not necessarily my long term best interests. 590 00:40:43.570 --> 00:40:46.530 And so Gary V is probably probably who I would shout out there, because, 591 00:40:46.769 --> 00:40:50.719 man, that guy is you can see up here. I've got all 592 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:55.159 of his books right up there and and I just consume his youtube content and 593 00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:00.599 the stuff he's putting out on social like an animal. So that he is 594 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.000 who I would give credit to. Their great one. How about a company 595 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:07.070 that you really appreciate for the way they deliver for you when you're on the 596 00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:12.630 customer side of the deal? Yeah, so there's a there's a pizza shop 597 00:41:12.949 --> 00:41:15.750 by my old house as Joe's pizza will local shop. I think they have. 598 00:41:16.150 --> 00:41:22.300 I think they have two shops now and they know I was fascinated by 599 00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:24.059 how this worked out. But there's a girl that works there. Her name 600 00:41:24.059 --> 00:41:29.860 is Jasmine, and I don't know if this is necessarily trained or if they 601 00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:34.769 just got a gym in in jazz whenever they hired her, but I come 602 00:41:34.849 --> 00:41:37.329 in and I don't even have to tell her my order. She's like got 603 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:40.210 it cute up and she's like all right, it's going to be Undine hundred 604 00:41:40.250 --> 00:41:43.769 and eighty eight. I'm like jazz, like, how do you how on 605 00:41:43.849 --> 00:41:45.090 earth? And I've seen her do it for other people. So it's not 606 00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:49.679 like you know I I do go there a lot, so that that's probably 607 00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.320 an indictment on my pizza eating habits. But the fact that she's like she 608 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.079 knows, like she's like Oh, don't you know, don't forget your cup 609 00:41:55.119 --> 00:42:00.000 for your diet coke, and I'm like man like, just the thoughtfulness of 610 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:05.550 she knows her customers really, really well, and I know that's not profound 611 00:42:05.750 --> 00:42:08.670 and I know I listen to your show and I hear people talk about kind 612 00:42:08.670 --> 00:42:14.150 of the local you know a lot of local mom and pop shops that are 613 00:42:14.309 --> 00:42:17.099 delivering on this experience. But I think the simplicity of it is what makes 614 00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:22.780 it so powerful. We don't need to overcomplicate how to create an incredible customer 615 00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:29.460 experience for someone. It's be thoughtful, like, be be interested, know 616 00:42:29.659 --> 00:42:36.250 your customer really well and and that's something that jazz has done exceptionally well for 617 00:42:36.369 --> 00:42:39.010 me at Joe's pizza. That's so good. It reminds me of that of 618 00:42:39.090 --> 00:42:44.400 those stats that you offered here that there's just so sad. It's like if 619 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.280 you're disengaged in your work, then you're not going to show up in a 620 00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:52.559 way where you're caring and just the idea of beings. I can't imagine living 621 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.039 in a state where I don't care about what's going on around me and the 622 00:42:55.159 --> 00:43:00.309 people who are around me and the that the positive consequences of the work that 623 00:43:00.349 --> 00:43:02.789 I do. Like I can't imagine being in a place of not caring. 624 00:43:02.869 --> 00:43:06.429 And so, you know, when you're working at a pizza shop, you 625 00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:08.269 know you might have in the back of your mind you know, this is 626 00:43:08.389 --> 00:43:13.260 just for now, until I finish my degree or until I, you know, 627 00:43:13.420 --> 00:43:16.500 complete the training or whatever, but just that respect for yourself and for 628 00:43:16.579 --> 00:43:20.980 the customer to show up and care and what it does for you. I 629 00:43:21.099 --> 00:43:24.739 think that. I think theorizing. I think what's going on for you there 630 00:43:24.980 --> 00:43:30.250 is she's saying through her behavior. I see you, I recognize you, 631 00:43:30.530 --> 00:43:36.130 I appreciate you, I know something about you, and and so we can 632 00:43:36.210 --> 00:43:38.730 stick skip through all the transactional stuff. I'm just going to take you straight 633 00:43:38.889 --> 00:43:43.079 there. And that just again you did a great job of talking about kind 634 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:46.119 of like the message under the message or the message under the behavior. It 635 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:50.239 just says, Hey, James, welcome back. Yeah, let's do this. 636 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.000 Yeah, and I mean they're like I go through seasons where I'm like 637 00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:57.429 really good on my diet and then I'm not so good on my diet, 638 00:43:57.710 --> 00:44:00.349 and so she she knows like hey, is it Diet James today or is 639 00:44:00.389 --> 00:44:04.070 it non diet? Because I've got I got I do the Greek Salad when 640 00:44:04.070 --> 00:44:07.949 I'm when I'm Diet James, and I do that two slices of this awesome 641 00:44:07.989 --> 00:44:10.500 pizza that they do whenever I'm non dietams. And so like even just her 642 00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:15.579 understanding the nuances of kind of the roller coaster of my discipline before my diet, 643 00:44:16.219 --> 00:44:20.940 that kind of thing. It's it's a level more than her just knowing 644 00:44:21.019 --> 00:44:24.210 my name, although I think just knowing a name would probably be a pretty 645 00:44:24.610 --> 00:44:29.570 pretty good step to aspire to yeah, but she goes, you know, 646 00:44:30.130 --> 00:44:32.969 much further past that and it's just I don't know it. I just want 647 00:44:32.969 --> 00:44:37.289 to do business with with friends. I don't think we use the term friendship 648 00:44:37.530 --> 00:44:43.320 enough in business and it's really my, you know, a big part of 649 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:47.480 my mission as an entrepreneurs to build businesses where they're where these these collaborations are 650 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.400 happening and friendships re forming. I would consider you, Ethan, to be 651 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:55.150 a close friend of mine. I didn't. It's it feels weird to even 652 00:44:55.190 --> 00:44:58.190 say like, Oh, yeah, there are a customer of ours. It's 653 00:44:58.429 --> 00:45:00.829 no, Ethans a friend. Yeah, and and man, I think if 654 00:45:00.909 --> 00:45:07.139 we as companies can aspire to build cultures where that is encouraged. To know 655 00:45:07.219 --> 00:45:09.699 what what? What would you do with a friend? Like how would you 656 00:45:09.739 --> 00:45:14.900 get to know a friend better? Let's apply that to how you're working with 657 00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:17.980 this particular customer, because the result is likely going to end up being very 658 00:45:17.980 --> 00:45:22.849 similar. It's so good. In reminds me of the end of your mission 659 00:45:22.969 --> 00:45:25.809 statement or your goal statement or dream statement, which is the world gets better. 660 00:45:25.849 --> 00:45:29.610 It is a better world to live and work in when we approach our 661 00:45:29.650 --> 00:45:32.010 work that way. This has been great. I appreciate you so much. 662 00:45:32.369 --> 00:45:36.440 I consider you a close friend as well. I appreciate the work that you 663 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.119 do and, most importantly, the way you go about it. I love 664 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.800 what you've built. I love the sense of community around what you're doing. 665 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:45.599 And so if people enjoyed this conversation and there they made it to the end, 666 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.789 it's not a short so so I assume they're pretty into it. If 667 00:45:50.869 --> 00:45:52.750 people want to take another step, how do they connect with you on Linkedin? 668 00:45:52.829 --> 00:45:54.909 How do they check out sweet fish? How they check out be to 669 00:45:54.949 --> 00:45:58.710 be growth, content, bias working? Where would you send people? Yeah, 670 00:45:58.789 --> 00:46:01.110 yeah, so, so you can go to sweet fish Mediacom and learn 671 00:46:01.110 --> 00:46:04.900 about what we do on the business side. I'm super active on Linkedin. 672 00:46:05.139 --> 00:46:07.940 So just finding me, finding me on Linkedin. My last name is spelled 673 00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:14.099 CR be a R Y. I think I'm the only James Carberry that pops 674 00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:16.260 up, but you'll see. You'll see, you know, the picture of 675 00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:21.570 me and then the tagline is we produce podcast for beb brands. So if 676 00:46:21.650 --> 00:46:23.329 there is another James carberry out there, just look for the thing that says 677 00:46:23.369 --> 00:46:27.570 something about podcasts and the tagline. Right, you'll mind you don't meet. 678 00:46:28.090 --> 00:46:31.170 Yeah, right. And then the book is the book is on audible and 679 00:46:31.769 --> 00:46:36.480 Amazon, so just search content based networking or again, just search my name 680 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:38.679 either on Amazon or audible. If you want to listen to it. I 681 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.519 read the book similar to what you and Steve Did for Rehumanize Your Business. 682 00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:45.920 So so you can hear me read the book to you or you can read 683 00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:49.869 it yourself, but would love, love to get your feedback on it. 684 00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:52.829 Like I mentioned earlier, I put my phone number in the back of the 685 00:46:52.869 --> 00:46:55.349 book and so if you want to shoot me a text when you're done, 686 00:46:55.389 --> 00:47:00.429 I love having conversations about what people are taken away from it and and what 687 00:47:00.550 --> 00:47:02.019 they're you know, if they got any value out of it, which I 688 00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:06.019 hope they did. I would love to have a conversation with you about it. 689 00:47:06.619 --> 00:47:09.139 Awesome. I'd be shocked if someone picked it up, spent forty five 690 00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:14.500 minutes with it and did not say thousand forty five minutes well spent. I 691 00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:16.809 appreciate that. Yeah, thank you so much for your time, thanks for 692 00:47:16.889 --> 00:47:21.130 the insights, thanks for the way you view the world and inspiring other people 693 00:47:21.170 --> 00:47:22.769 to few it's the same way. Awesome, Eathan. Thank you so much. 694 00:47:22.769 --> 00:47:27.050 Man, this has been incredible. I'm honored to have been asked to 695 00:47:27.369 --> 00:47:32.840 be a guest. So many useful ideas in there, such a healthy approach 696 00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:38.000 to building relationships and growing your business. Thanks again to James for making bombomb 697 00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:43.400 part of that process. If you'd like to get more yeses as you reach 698 00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:47.389 out to connect with people, I recommend doing it with simple personal videos. 699 00:47:47.630 --> 00:47:52.269 And if you want the definitive guide, then you want rehumanize your business. 700 00:47:52.590 --> 00:48:00.420 How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Search. Rehumanize your business 701 00:48:00.460 --> 00:48:09.980 at Amazon or visit bombombcom book. That's bomb bombcom forward slash book. My 702 00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:15.250 name is Ethan, but I'm coauthor of Rehumanize Your Business and I thank you 703 00:48:15.289 --> 00:48:22.289 so much for listening to the CX series here on B Tob Growth. I 704 00:48:22.530 --> 00:48:25.889 hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why 705 00:48:25.889 --> 00:48:30.440 they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a 706 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:32.920 podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you leave a 707 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:37.880 review for me to be growth and apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of 708 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:42.269 the review to James At sweetfish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of 709 00:48:42.349 --> 00:48:45.389 my new book. Content based networking how to instantly connect with anyone you want 710 00:48:45.389 --> 00:48:49.389 to know. We get a review, you get a free book. We 711 00:48:49.510 --> 00:48:49.949 both win