#CX 48: Improving Sales Enablement and Sales Readiness w/ Joe Caprio

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:09.070 That was the biggest Aha for me. was like the number one way to 2 00:00:09.150 --> 00:00:13.589 enable your sales team isn't get that tribal knowledge out of your veterans brains and 3 00:00:13.789 --> 00:00:18.789 distribute it into the rookies brains as fast and it's powerful. If you want 4 00:00:18.789 --> 00:00:22.539 to be a more effective salesperson or a more effective sales manager, you are 5 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:26.539 in the right place. My name is Ethan Butte. I host the CX 6 00:00:26.579 --> 00:00:31.260 series here on the BB growth show and I'm the chief evangelist at bombomb our 7 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:35.929 guest is the VP of sales at chorus, Joe Caprio. Great Guy, 8 00:00:36.009 --> 00:00:42.009 great energy and, above all, great insights, practical stuff about sales enablement, 9 00:00:42.409 --> 00:00:47.250 Sales Readiness, training, coaching, managing and so much more. If 10 00:00:47.329 --> 00:00:51.320 you're in sales you're going to love this conversation, and if you're adjacent to 11 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:55.560 sales, it's important for you to hear it. Here's the conversation with Joe 12 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:02.039 Caprio, from sales enablement to sales readiness. How do we best prepare our 13 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.629 sales people? How do we set them up not just for success against quota 14 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:08.909 but to best serve our customers? That's the topic on this episode of the 15 00:01:08.989 --> 00:01:14.349 PODCAST. Our guest is spent fifteen years in a variety of sales roles in 16 00:01:14.469 --> 00:01:19.900 Boston and San Francisco, bicoastal before becoming vp of sales for chorus. He 17 00:01:19.060 --> 00:01:23.700 was a delighted chorus customer. I the privilege of spending some time with him 18 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:26.500 at an outreach unleash event a couple months back and I'm excited to reconnect with 19 00:01:26.540 --> 00:01:32.540 him here today. Joe Caprio, welcome them to the customer experience podcast even 20 00:01:32.579 --> 00:01:34.650 thank you so much for having me. I could return all the same compliments 21 00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:40.010 to you. That a really enjoyable time every time we've spoke, so I'm 22 00:01:40.090 --> 00:01:42.609 thrilled to be here. Cool. Let's start with where we always start on 23 00:01:42.650 --> 00:01:48.799 the show, which is your thoughts or your definition or characteristics of customer experience. 24 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.959 How do you think about it? Sure, customer experience, for me, 25 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:56.480 I think, is really really morphed and started to encompass the entire journey. 26 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.200 So I think a lot of us are now thinking about the customer experience 27 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.430 from the first brand impression they get all the way through, you know, 28 00:02:04.549 --> 00:02:09.550 the sales cycle right into deployment and making sure you're deeply embedded and being used 29 00:02:09.590 --> 00:02:14.349 properly and expanding and renewing because he earned it. And so I really think 30 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:17.979 of customer experience is just every single customer facing asset and employee, your team 31 00:02:19.060 --> 00:02:22.939 marching to the same tune with the unified message and mission to help your customers 32 00:02:22.979 --> 00:02:27.259 succeed in their business, not just with your tech. It's a great, 33 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:30.650 great answer. You covered a lot of really important elements there when you mentioned 34 00:02:30.689 --> 00:02:35.129 brandon. So this brand experience, customer experience, I'm hearing you synonymously. 35 00:02:35.490 --> 00:02:38.090 It's end to end, it's start to finish, an impact and renewed impact. 36 00:02:38.330 --> 00:02:42.210 It's your people and your assets. You just really covered a lot of 37 00:02:42.289 --> 00:02:45.319 ground there and you're right on. I agree with you. For those who 38 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.280 are who aren't familiar, can share a little bit about course. You know 39 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.319 who are your ideal customers? Who are you serving? How are you serving 40 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.599 those folks? Sure, yeah, I mean are our target customers to be 41 00:02:54.680 --> 00:03:00.990 really gross a our you know, high growth, rapidly scale B TOB sales 42 00:03:00.069 --> 00:03:05.469 teams. We work with some really cutting in technology like bombomb. We also 43 00:03:05.509 --> 00:03:09.629 work with some like massive hundred million dollars funded or publicly traded companies like data 44 00:03:09.629 --> 00:03:15.699 robot Klavo. We enable them specifically their sales enablement and training programs to get 45 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:21.219 their reps field ready faster. So we support quatrix university and they'll be sales 46 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:24.939 academy. And essentially we're an intelligence product that joins your sales meetings, captures 47 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:29.569 what happened, what worked or didn't work, and then turn that into inspection 48 00:03:29.689 --> 00:03:34.530 points for managers, like activity reminders for reps and ultimately, like the best 49 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:38.009 training program that you can ever put your people through is giving them an ability 50 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:42.400 to listen to your top performers and learn from how they go to market. 51 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.719 So we are in intelligence platform and a training platform for rapid growth tech. 52 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:51.800 It's great. It really changed the way our sales management works with and trains 53 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.229 our salespeople and we get great feedback from everyone that uses it in a variety 54 00:03:55.229 --> 00:03:58.710 of ways. So love what you all are up to. One of the 55 00:03:58.789 --> 00:04:00.110 fun things when I met you, one of them, one of my favorite 56 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:03.789 things that's stuck with me right away, was that you were a chorus customer 57 00:04:03.949 --> 00:04:09.229 before you became the VP of sales. What was it about the company or 58 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:13.379 the product or the customer experience they were delivering for you as a customer like? 59 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:16.500 What made you say I gotta join this team. Yeah, I tell 60 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:20.180 the story a lot, as you could imagine, right. But yeah, 61 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:24.930 I was a customers I ran I ran the training and enablement program at a 62 00:04:24.970 --> 00:04:28.410 company called inside squared back in Boston and, you know, we had a 63 00:04:28.490 --> 00:04:31.129 skill gap. We we act consistency of message and we would hire folks right 64 00:04:31.129 --> 00:04:34.410 out of college and try to get them, you know, ready to sell 65 00:04:34.529 --> 00:04:39.439 bi which is a really complicated, intense product and you need to be a 66 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:43.040 little more worldly than folks that are right out of college. And so we 67 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.680 had a skill gap. I bought chorus, I deployed into my sales team 68 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.639 and then I used it for the last year that I was at inside square 69 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.759 and I cut my ramp time in half. Real talk, I got my 70 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:55.790 ram time in half. I increased my win rate while doing that. So 71 00:04:55.829 --> 00:04:59.430 I was getting people to a higher wind rate and less time. I improved 72 00:04:59.470 --> 00:05:03.110 consistency of messaging. I got handoffs figured out so that are a team was, 73 00:05:03.430 --> 00:05:06.699 you know, enabling our customer team with the right you know needs from 74 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:10.860 a customer and it worked. And so my wife kind of makes fun of 75 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:13.939 me where she said, you know, you stayed inside squared for six years 76 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:16.139 and when you finally left. You went and took like ten different interviews, 77 00:05:16.180 --> 00:05:19.339 but I knew you were going to chorus the whole time because in the last 78 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:21.769 year you come home every day and you're like, oh, the other cool 79 00:05:21.889 --> 00:05:25.649 thing that course does for me. So, you know, a lot of 80 00:05:25.689 --> 00:05:27.889 people tell the story, but it's real with me, like I was a 81 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:31.410 very, very happy customer of the software and I just I just love what 82 00:05:31.490 --> 00:05:35.040 we do. Love Enablement, I love training. My dolphamine doesn't come from 83 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.920 close and deals and comes from enabling do salespeople to learn how to close deals, 84 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:42.959 and so I love the mission that we're on right now of helping our 85 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.279 customers support their sellers with better training and enablement. It's really good that you 86 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.470 mentioned something there and you used worldly as as a phrase. To phrase that 87 00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:56.029 that I've been thinking and using. It is, I think about our own 88 00:05:56.069 --> 00:05:59.110 team members and variety of positions, not just in sales. Is like how 89 00:05:59.189 --> 00:06:02.790 do we raise the business acumen right as we start to go up market and 90 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:08.100 work with more sophisticated people with more at stake? And so just close that 91 00:06:08.180 --> 00:06:11.740 gap for me a little bit like how did you use chorus at insight squared 92 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.220 to make those folks more worldly, like what were you looking for or listening 93 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:18.529 for and then feeding back to them, like how do you raise up the 94 00:06:18.610 --> 00:06:24.410 business acumen of these of these young folks who have obviously had an important job, 95 00:06:24.449 --> 00:06:27.569 a complex sale maybe? How did you do that and how to how 96 00:06:27.610 --> 00:06:30.449 did the tech help you do that? Yeah, you know, it's really 97 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:32.240 funny. I'm a really good friend named Mark Cossa glow WHO's the head of 98 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.920 sales that outreach, and I think about the first time that I bought that 99 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:42.800 product and what it did for my sales team. It really enabled my rookie 100 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:47.509 bedrs to send the emails that my veteran bedrs were sending, and so folks 101 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:50.629 that had a year or a year and a half in the seat had figured 102 00:06:50.670 --> 00:06:55.149 out what work and what resonated and what the prospects like to talk about. 103 00:06:55.589 --> 00:06:58.310 And then every new hire that I had would try to figure it out on 104 00:06:58.350 --> 00:07:01.379 their own and by taking the templates from a veteran Bedr and giving them to 105 00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:04.500 the rookie Bedr. They still might not be great on the phone yet, 106 00:07:04.779 --> 00:07:09.139 but man, those emails were tight. You start to play that out on 107 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:13.660 the rest of your sales and support motion and it's like your veterans have figured 108 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:17.050 out a way to really nail this this project, and the faster you can 109 00:07:17.089 --> 00:07:20.569 get your rookies to pick up what's working and what's not working, the fast 110 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:25.769 you can get them to mimic the veterans and see you start really thinking about 111 00:07:25.810 --> 00:07:29.370 like what a the tendkey skills that a person, you know, I sell 112 00:07:29.490 --> 00:07:32.800 or supporter, needs at your company and how can I create really powerful lists 113 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:38.199 of good examples of those skills? So it's no longer lecture and role play, 114 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:42.920 it's actually watching real interactions that you know, moments that made an impact, 115 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.189 and then copying that down in your own skill set. That was the 116 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:48.670 biggest a haa for me. was like the number one way to enable your 117 00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:54.350 sales team is to get that tribal knowledge out of your veterans brains and distribute 118 00:07:54.350 --> 00:07:57.509 it into the rookies brains as fast and it's powerful, so good. And 119 00:07:57.629 --> 00:08:00.939 so it's like the game tape, you know, like we're going back. 120 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:03.819 This is a game from one thousand nine hundred and ninety six and you could 121 00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:07.420 yeah, anyway, can't cheat the man in the glass. Yeah, Lt 122 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.100 in the mirror right, or two thousand and sixty year over. Yeah, 123 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:13.970 so you are hardcore about buyer persona, which I really respect. The way 124 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:16.930 you go at it. You know you're focusing for a bit on Biz ops 125 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.050 and vops, sales enablement. Talk about your approach to buy your persona. 126 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:22.730 Like, what is that? Why does it matter to you so much? 127 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:24.889 I mean, I think it's implied, but I'd love to hear your own 128 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:30.000 words. And then what are you doing practically to really steep yourself in who 129 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.399 your buyer is, in how they live and work and think? Yeah, 130 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:35.799 so I don't care about your features, I really don't. I don't care 131 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.679 about your technology and I don't care about your reference customers. I care about 132 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:45.070 how I should use your product, your service. I care about the actual 133 00:08:45.350 --> 00:08:48.269 teams that I can develop, the changes I can make. And so when 134 00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:50.909 I when I hire and train sales people or even customers success people, it's 135 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:54.590 like, no one cares about your features and they want a demo, but 136 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:56.179 they really want to know how they're going to go out and do their job 137 00:08:56.299 --> 00:09:01.620 better or more effectively. And so I really need to understand my target buyer. 138 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:05.139 Let's I can trick them or sell to them, but so I can 139 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:09.299 understand what they're actually trying to accomplish and then I can highlight the areas of 140 00:09:09.379 --> 00:09:11.929 my product or service that can support their mission. And so my big thing 141 00:09:13.009 --> 00:09:16.730 about about really knowing your buyer. It's not just like you know where do 142 00:09:16.809 --> 00:09:20.169 they hang out and what types of mediums can communicate through? Right. It's 143 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:22.850 not that, it's what are they really trying to accomplish and how can you 144 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:28.320 support them to make them more successful in their careers? Because ultimately, right 145 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.120 they're successful in their career, they're a high performer for their company. So 146 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.000 that is the best way to service your customers, just to make your purse, 147 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.909 your buy or persona really successful in their function. And then, know 148 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:43.389 you asked about how do I have the research piece right? It's one thing 149 00:09:43.470 --> 00:09:48.110 to just sit down in a room and we all we've all talked with fifteen 150 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:50.149 or thirty or fifty of them, and so we just start making up some 151 00:09:50.350 --> 00:09:54.419 persona. You go a little bit farther than that. I do. So 152 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:58.379 the first thing I do is I'm going to pitch. I use my product, 153 00:09:58.539 --> 00:10:01.220 I I drill down on certain people. You know, we record all 154 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:05.379 the calls and then I listened to what the prospects and the customers say to 155 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:09.289 us, and I sort that by roll. And so went ahead of enablement 156 00:10:09.289 --> 00:10:11.809 leverages chorus to train their sales team. What are they talking about? What 157 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:16.889 are they asking for when ahead of sales uses course to inspecting and enforce methodology 158 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:20.610 or process? What are they talking about? What do they care about? 159 00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:24.799 When an executive team builds these listen parties where they're going in there and trying 160 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.240 to mind the calls for insight into what the customers need. What do they 161 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.720 care about? What do they a good about? And so that that's one 162 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:33.159 thing they do is I really listened intently to our recorded calls. The other 163 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.110 thing that I do is I actually send all of my ics to school, 164 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:39.429 and so we sell a lot to sales enablement. So I send every ice 165 00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:45.070 at my company to sales enablement academy as run by mishe McPherson from Humblegrid Sale. 166 00:10:45.149 --> 00:10:48.950 She's affiliated with Matt Cameron from from Sassi Sales Management. She runs a 167 00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:50.940 twoday workshop and so if you have a like a new one, their career 168 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:54.980 sales enablement leader, you send them to niche school. She's a twenty year 169 00:10:56.019 --> 00:11:01.539 sales enablement veteran and she'll teach your sales enablement person how to run sales enablement, 170 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:03.490 and so I send all of my a's and all my CSMS, I 171 00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:07.970 send them to her school. They could actually understand what it takes to do 172 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.929 sales enablement. So when they're doing these calls, are not pitching features, 173 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:15.529 and when the customer success team is doing their calls, they're not just promising 174 00:11:15.570 --> 00:11:18.559 the road map, they're actually in line with what they're they're end user supposed 175 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.879 to accomplish because they were educated on it and get the role. When I 176 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.759 was at inside squared, we sold a lot to rebops and we sold, 177 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.559 you know, reporting by data, and so I would send my reps to 178 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.549 the sales wars and get them salesforth certified. And so every time I take 179 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:35.789 a new GIG, when I'm trying to figure out is who's the buyer or 180 00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:39.470 what are they trying to accomplish and how can I get my people to really 181 00:11:39.509 --> 00:11:43.309 understand that role in that world, because it's different, they've never done it 182 00:11:43.350 --> 00:11:46.789 before. I love it. It's a huge value add obviously for your team 183 00:11:46.830 --> 00:11:48.340 members, because who doesn't want to learn and grow in a variety of ways, 184 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:52.740 but it's also huge value add to the customer because you can just get 185 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:56.460 there faster. So good. So you've mentioned sales enablement a couple of times. 186 00:11:56.500 --> 00:12:01.929 You've also mentioned to me, say, sales readiness. Talk about give 187 00:12:01.009 --> 00:12:05.450 just a lightweight definition of sales enablement and or a lightweight definition of sales readiness. 188 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:09.929 What's to someone like me is a little bit a step away from all 189 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:13.690 of this in a data you're obviously steeping yourself and your team in sales enablement, 190 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:16.000 you know, for the for the more ignorant among us, myself, 191 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.120 in any of the listeners that fit my criteria here, you know what's the 192 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:24.799 difference between those two and and what is the nuance or evolution that sales readiness 193 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.279 brings? Yeah, I think it really comes down to the company that you 194 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.389 work for. This is an emerging category. I think back to like the 195 00:12:31.990 --> 00:12:37.190 like, you know, the Sales Force Admin and how over the last decade 196 00:12:37.309 --> 00:12:43.870 that's kind of transformed itself into like global, worldwide vp of operations and strategy, 197 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:46.700 and you've kind of seen that that role really morph and take shape. 198 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:52.259 And it's because we moved our sales teams inside and started buying these inside sales. 199 00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:54.820 So you know text acct and so that captures a lot of data and 200 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.889 as we started to do that, more and more these companies realized if I 201 00:12:58.929 --> 00:13:01.850 could have somebody on staff that could harness that data and help us make better 202 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:05.490 decisions, we'd get a better company for it. And so the sales ops 203 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:11.009 roll has really kind of expanded and grown in importance and I think now the 204 00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:16.120 next frontier of efficiency is how do I get my humans skilled quickly, you 205 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.200 know, and inappropriately, and so I think a lot of companies now are 206 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:22.399 starting to invest in enablement and readiness sooner and they're building bigger teams and they're 207 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.509 really doing it with like a metrics or data driven approach. So they're tying 208 00:13:26.669 --> 00:13:31.830 the coaching initiatives to behavior change, the revenue improvement, and I think what 209 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.190 we're seeing that was just kind of there isn't standard. And so when I 210 00:13:35.230 --> 00:13:37.470 was in inside squared, I did sales enablement, but my title was VP 211 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.460 of inside sales, and so I really think you're kind of just looking at 212 00:13:41.539 --> 00:13:45.419 at like a role that hasn't really been fleshed out. But the ultimate goal, 213 00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:48.100 ear is what does it take for a seller to be productive, autonomous, 214 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:52.539 reliable consistent, and what are all the things that come into that, 215 00:13:52.659 --> 00:13:56.009 like do they understand their text act? They have their territory to the do 216 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:00.210 the right activities is that are their gaps in your process where technology or training 217 00:14:00.289 --> 00:14:01.730 could support it? 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Not Situations where you know you just have a bad manager, 242 00:16:00.129 --> 00:16:03.610 this not investing in their people. I mean that's the obvious stuff, 243 00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:07.159 but like what are some tweaks that like like a solid performing team that you 244 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.200 just make a few tweaks or look at a couple different things that they could 245 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.519 maybe see some outsize jumps relative to the effort. Yeah, I think it's 246 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:21.710 about repeatable, scalable behaviors. And all too often you've got the head of 247 00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:25.669 the department, typically head of sales, who knows how to sell really well, 248 00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:29.070 and it's kind of like hey, everyone, gather around so I I 249 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:32.549 can, you know, dispel my gospel to you and it's like, you 250 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:36.820 know, you're training like soccer tease and played out right, like the world 251 00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.899 is changed, the way people interact and consume information is changed, yet you're 252 00:16:40.940 --> 00:16:44.259 still standing up there lecturing at people. And so I think it really comes 253 00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:48.210 down to you some technology and like build some repeatable processes where, you know, 254 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:52.049 a weekly film review or like reps peep, like peer reviewing one another, 255 00:16:52.250 --> 00:16:56.970 or, you know, building out like libraries and calls where new hires 256 00:16:56.009 --> 00:17:00.929 can go on like self serve the information leverage and LMS right. And so 257 00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:04.920 it's about doing things on a regular basis within ten just building a structured program 258 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.160 like let's get away from like the Monday lecture from sales. And then the 259 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:12.880 other two big categories you can started to drone on in this. Know, 260 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.910 this is great. Yeah, the other the other two things I hear a 261 00:17:15.990 --> 00:17:22.109 lot are not having a stated opinion right. And so if you hire folks 262 00:17:22.150 --> 00:17:25.750 and then they succeed or fail based on how good they are at sales, 263 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:29.589 you're kind of doing yourself at this service. The best companies that I've worked 264 00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:33.740 with having very defined point of view on all things like what is our mission? 265 00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:36.259 What is our pitch? What is the talk track? What is our 266 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:40.059 methodology? What do you own the crm, like what emails, what customer 267 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.380 facing content do we send to people? And having it all really, really 268 00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:47.930 locked down in a way that it's consumable, it's bite size and it's where 269 00:17:47.930 --> 00:17:51.210 the reps needed. So I, for example, I leverage Guru to put 270 00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:55.089 my knowledge base for my sellers inside of sales or some inside of Gmail, 271 00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:59.400 inside about reach and everywhere in my seller might go. They have access to 272 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.920 the information like when they needed where they need it. That's a big, 273 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.079 big piece. And then the final piece of the frontline manager. Like this 274 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:08.799 happens all too often right to the top sellers. You get promoted to manager 275 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.710 and then you revert to what you know and and so they go work deals, 276 00:18:12.869 --> 00:18:15.630 right, they take over deals and maybe they give some like advice and 277 00:18:15.750 --> 00:18:19.630 passing right after a call. But these frontline managers went on board in the 278 00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:22.029 right way. They were not training the right way. They've never been coach 279 00:18:22.190 --> 00:18:26.710 or teachers of their life. They're just good. I sees. They get 280 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:29.980 promoted to management and you don't go invest in them again, you don't send 281 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:32.779 them back to school, you don't tell them they have a new job right 282 00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:34.140 and they revert to what they know. They just go coach deals again. 283 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:38.740 You really have to invest in this layer of frontline managers because otherwise, again 284 00:18:38.740 --> 00:18:41.569 it's the head of sales with the head of enablement kind of screaming out to 285 00:18:41.609 --> 00:18:45.049 the reps how to do it, but no one's out there after reinforcing it 286 00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:48.170 and making sure that reps understood it. Yeah, it's so good to hear 287 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:52.089 you say that. I've seen that happen a number of times. It even 288 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:56.880 happened to me in a different role like this. This situation where the top 289 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:02.119 performer, or really good performer now is it becomes the managers responsible for five 290 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.000 or ten or fifty other people, but it's a completely different job. Head 291 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.109 job has little to no relationship. I mean, the one thing I prided 292 00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:14.230 myself on in that transition myself. So I try not to ask people to 293 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:18.190 do things that I'm not willing or able to do myself. Obviously helps that 294 00:19:18.269 --> 00:19:21.309 they've been in that seat. They've been there before. They can coach to 295 00:19:21.430 --> 00:19:23.109 it. They know what to listen to when they're listening to the recordings and 296 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:27.819 and what to feedback. But the whole rest of the job isn't the same 297 00:19:27.819 --> 00:19:32.259 job at all. It's not even close. It's not even close. Like 298 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:34.220 they say, the best, the best players don't always make the best coaches. 299 00:19:34.660 --> 00:19:38.569 This is no different. Right, the best spellers do not always make 300 00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:42.809 the best managers. It's a different personality, it's a different set of responsibilities 301 00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:45.450 and you could do it right. You're a high performer. You can probably 302 00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:49.529 learn new things, but not if we don't tell you to right, right, 303 00:19:49.609 --> 00:19:55.119 and it's gives this thing I've experienced with maybe an upandcoming salad performing employee, 304 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:56.920 whether it be a salesperson or another one. Is it they maybe think 305 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.759 that that is what they should do. Do like that is the next logical 306 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.400 step. I should you know, I'm killing my numbers. I may have 307 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.509 been at the worst I've performed in the past twelve months is a hundred and 308 00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:11.950 twenty percent of quota. My next step is I should become a sales manager, 309 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:15.390 but a lot of times maybe you shouldn't. To your point, I'm 310 00:20:15.430 --> 00:20:19.029 not a really on a lot of really honest conversations with with IC's and my 311 00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:22.900 team over the years and a lot of times I'm giving him advice to leave 312 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.700 the company if that's what's right for them. And they think the only path 313 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:29.900 for them is to now mage and SNB team. Right. Well, maybe 314 00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:33.220 the right for them is going to be an enterprise seller and and to do 315 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:36.289 that they might have to leave your org. And so I'm really invested in 316 00:20:36.450 --> 00:20:40.009 what's right and best for the people that I work with, because these relationships 317 00:20:40.089 --> 00:20:42.210 mattered to me. And so now I don't think management is always the next 318 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:45.809 step. I think that there are some other things you might do and you're 319 00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.849 selling career before you try to go down that path. I think we owe 320 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:49.839 to the people that we work with. You know, no one's going to 321 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:53.160 retire at bomb bomb or at course, like no one's going to retire here, 322 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.279 right and so let's let's give them the life that they want and you 323 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.279 know, Leiaeve it or not, of the reward you more then you might 324 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.869 think it's great. I always ask this question of people who are so steeped 325 00:21:03.990 --> 00:21:07.670 in their area of expertise as you are, because you know, one of 326 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:12.710 my goals on the podcast is to create better alignment and more open conversations specifically 327 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:17.869 across marketing, sales cs, but really throughout the organization. Is there anything 328 00:21:17.950 --> 00:21:23.779 that you wish more marketers or customer success professionals understood about sales, the practice 329 00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:26.099 of sales or anything like that? Is there really like if you could be 330 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:30.420 in a room of marketers and or a room of customer success or customer service 331 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:34.049 professionals, we're a few things that you wish more of them new or understood 332 00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:37.089 about what you and your team are trying to do every day? Don't you 333 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:40.690 get me in trouble. You can. The first thing I would probably say 334 00:21:40.809 --> 00:21:44.009 so much. I appreciate them and rely on them and we're a team and 335 00:21:44.130 --> 00:21:48.119 I will not throw stones here. Oh, I think there's a I think 336 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.240 there's a bit of a misunderstanding a lot of times with with folks that it 337 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.200 not run sales teams and they may say this program makes a ton of sense 338 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.920 or this decision is really obvious. Why don't they just do it, and 339 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:06.029 I think that there's a bit of a lack of understanding how challenging could challenging 340 00:22:06.190 --> 00:22:10.869 it can be to change the behavior of an entire team of people who are 341 00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:15.380 probably interviewed tested to make sure they have the personality profile. That is not 342 00:22:15.619 --> 00:22:21.500 easy to change. And so we hire sellers because they're headstrong, determined and 343 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.180 they take that a short memory when it comes to failure and they're confident and 344 00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:27.619 they had conviction in their beliefs. And then we say hey, I sent 345 00:22:27.700 --> 00:22:30.329 them a memo. Why aren't you doing it my way now? And it's 346 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:33.769 really not effective. And so I think the one thing that other departments could 347 00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:37.369 do when working with sales is just think about that a little bit and let's 348 00:22:37.410 --> 00:22:41.650 think about how many times you have to tell someone something before they really learn 349 00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:45.839 it all the different ways you can support and enrich and enable them to do 350 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.039 that, versus just saying well, we announced it at the Monday meeting, 351 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:52.319 so what's wrong now? Great, I love it. Yeah, it was 352 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.799 the fourth bullet play in that email with eighteen bullet points and I don't know 353 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.160 how you missed that. Yeah, right, but just to be clear, 354 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:02.150 for Tmun for Natalie I'm absolutely in love with working with you folks. That 355 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:04.430 wouldn't change it that I think we have a great relationship. That's good. 356 00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:07.470 I just yeah, even they're just, you know, they're we're off in 357 00:23:07.509 --> 00:23:11.549 our corner sometimes, as good as we are about working across across teams. 358 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.619 I think what you offered there was really was, really helpful. This has 359 00:23:15.619 --> 00:23:21.539 been great. It's loaded with fast facts and useful information if you are trying 360 00:23:21.579 --> 00:23:25.539 to build a team or improve sales. ENABLEM and I encourage you to listen 361 00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:29.289 to summer all of this episode again or check out the overview that I'm going 362 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:33.210 to put up at bombombcom slash podcast. And before I let you go this 363 00:23:33.289 --> 00:23:34.970 afternoon, Joe, I would love to know a couple things from you. 364 00:23:36.529 --> 00:23:38.609 First, I love to give you a chance to think or mentioned someone who's 365 00:23:38.609 --> 00:23:41.880 had a positive impact on your life or career and a chance for you to 366 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.880 give a shout out to a company that you really appreciate, a respect for 367 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.759 the way that they deliver and experience for you as a customer. Got It. 368 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.119 I want to thank Fred Show Mo over from insight squared. I was 369 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.670 in manufacturing sales when I met him about a decade ago and I joined his 370 00:23:56.789 --> 00:23:59.789 company as in playing number nine, and he took a shot on me and 371 00:23:59.869 --> 00:24:03.470 he gave me opportunities that maybe my resume didn't warrant, and I know I 372 00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:04.910 earned it. You know, I worked really, really hard for him, 373 00:24:04.910 --> 00:24:07.750 but I got some good results for him, but I wouldn't be where I 374 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:11.500 was today if I weren't for him. And he's one of the more caring 375 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:15.420 and oil and he's a personal friend of mine and he came to our wedding 376 00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:18.180 and he cooked dinner for us the night before, for a hundred and fifty 377 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:22.900 of our guests, and it really meant a lot to me and work friends 378 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:25.930 for life. So that's not one person. That said, he sounds like 379 00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:30.569 an awesome guy in a great chef apparently, and it really ties back to 380 00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:33.569 what you were saying before, right like you weren't going to retire it insight 381 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:36.730 squared, but you know, the time and investment trust that he putting you 382 00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:41.319 in, the opportunity he put in front of you is just obviously a lifelong 383 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.720 value and benefit. So good. How about a company that you really that's 384 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.319 top of mine for you got it. So I met my wife at insight 385 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.230 squared. She ran event marketing while I ran the sales team, and US 386 00:24:52.390 --> 00:24:56.269 problem solving together is where we really got to know each other. And I'll 387 00:24:56.269 --> 00:24:59.789 promote her new company. I don't know people have heard of it or not, 388 00:24:59.869 --> 00:25:03.910 that she works at a company called a WS or Amazon, and the 389 00:25:03.029 --> 00:25:07.779 one thing that I will say about a ws has she came home during her 390 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:14.099 onboarding and on a daily basis commented just how customer obsessed, customer centric they 391 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.099 are and they preach it all the way through. And she said it's at 392 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.930 a point now where if there are two people in a room at Amazon debating 393 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:25.849 or trying to work their way through a through a hot topic, at some 394 00:25:26.049 --> 00:25:30.849 point somebody in the room will always say what's best for the customer and that's 395 00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:33.609 the trump card and that's what they go with. And so they live it 396 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:37.119 and they really really subscribe to it. and Old Bazos sustainments for talking about 397 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.400 it all the time. The customer obsession and customer first behavior is really important 398 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.839 to me and I really think they exemplify it, really do so good in 399 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.559 this this link between the employee experience, where it's very obvious that this is 400 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.869 a real value. It's not lip service. Is what begets an excellent customer 401 00:25:52.990 --> 00:25:56.549 experience. Joe, this has been awesome. If someone wants to follow up 402 00:25:56.589 --> 00:25:59.829 with you or connect with you or with chorus, where would you send anyone? 403 00:26:00.069 --> 00:26:03.589 Yeah, I mean I'm Joe Cap Software. On twitter I'm Joe Caprio 404 00:26:03.710 --> 00:26:07.220 and Linkedin I'm Joe AD Corus, not Ai. Check our stuff out. 405 00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:10.579 We do some good content. We just release the state of conversation intelligence. 406 00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:14.180 It's on our website. We took like three hundred of our most famous customers 407 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.220 and five million of their sales calls and we started to analyze them to find 408 00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:19.809 benchmarks of like, you know, what does it take to winn a deal 409 00:26:19.849 --> 00:26:22.690 or lose a deal, and how many questions are your top sellers asking? 410 00:26:22.849 --> 00:26:26.769 And and then you can actually slice and dice the analysis free based on your 411 00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:30.529 ICEP or your, you know, target audience or whatever, and it's really, 412 00:26:30.569 --> 00:26:33.880 really powerful. So go to go to choruscom and look for the State 413 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.559 of conversation intelligence report or hit me on any one of the channels. Like 414 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.799 we all we all live in the same places here. So awesome. Thank 415 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.400 you so much for your time. I have two new items on the top 416 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.349 of my to do list this afternoon. One is to go follow you on 417 00:26:47.430 --> 00:26:49.269 twitter. We're already connected on Linkedin and I need to go check out that 418 00:26:49.309 --> 00:26:52.349 report and share with some folks that I work with. Excellent you can. 419 00:26:52.390 --> 00:26:55.750 Thank you so much, man. I really, really do love talking to 420 00:26:55.789 --> 00:26:59.069 you and I love your company, so thanks for having on me. Thank 421 00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:03.259 you so much. I always love asking that question. What do you wish 422 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:08.420 more marketers new or understood about sales and the sales process? And I ask 423 00:27:08.500 --> 00:27:12.819 it depending on my guest, all different directions. See Us, two sales, 424 00:27:12.859 --> 00:27:17.849 sales to marketing, marketing to see us and so on, because this 425 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:23.049 podcast is all about aligning sales, marketing and cus to create and deliver a 426 00:27:23.130 --> 00:27:27.809 better experience for our customers. If you want more conversations like this one, 427 00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:38.440 visit Bombombcom podcast. That's the word bomb twice. Bomb Bombcom podcast. You'll 428 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:44.349 meet other great leaders like Joe who are engaged in this ongoing conversation, in 429 00:27:44.470 --> 00:27:47.869 this ongoing effort. I hope you'll join us. My name is Ethan be 430 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:52.549 chief evangelist at Bombomb and I appreciate you listening to the B tob growth show. 431 00:27:55.390 --> 00:27:59.579 I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I 432 00:27:59.619 --> 00:28:03.299 get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to 433 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:06.619 grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you 434 00:28:06.740 --> 00:28:10.180 leave a review for be to be growth and apple podcasts and email me a 435 00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:14.450 screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a 436 00:28:14.609 --> 00:28:18.609 signed copy of my new book, content based networking, how to instantly connect 437 00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:21.609 with anyone you want to know. We get a review, you get a 438 00:28:21.690 --> 00:28:22.009 free book. We both win.