#CX 37: Meeting Customers' Evolving Needs with a CX Team w/ Luke Owen

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.269 Hey there, this is James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media and one 2 00:00:08.269 --> 00:00:11.150 of the cohosts of this show. For the last year and a half I've 3 00:00:11.150 --> 00:00:14.910 been working on my very first book. In the book I share the three 4 00:00:15.029 --> 00:00:19.429 part framework we've used as the foundation for our growth here at sweetfish. Now 5 00:00:19.469 --> 00:00:22.219 there are lots of companies that ever. He'sed a bunch of money and have 6 00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:25.539 grown insanely fast, and we featured a lot of them here on the show. 7 00:00:26.300 --> 00:00:30.539 We've decided to bootstrap our business, which usually equates to pretty slow growth, 8 00:00:31.059 --> 00:00:34.539 but using the strategy outlined in the book, we are on pace to 9 00:00:34.619 --> 00:00:38.530 be one of inks fastest growing companies in two thousand and twenty. The book 10 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:42.530 is called content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to 11 00:00:42.649 --> 00:00:45.210 know. If you're a fan of audio books like me, you can find 12 00:00:45.250 --> 00:00:48.329 the book on audible or if you like physical books, you can also find 13 00:00:48.329 --> 00:00:53.479 it on Amazon. Just search content based networking or James Carberry, car be 14 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:58.240 a ary in audible or Amazon and it should pop right up. All right, 15 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.240 let's get into the show. Hey, welcome back to the B tob 16 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.989 growth show. My name is Ethan, but I host the CX series here 17 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:11.390 on the show, as well as the customer experience podcast. And if you 18 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:14.430 want to get practical, if you want to get some details, if you 19 00:01:14.469 --> 00:01:19.060 want to talk org structure, team members, rolls, metrics and measures desired 20 00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:23.620 outcomes in more you're in the right place. In addition to roles and responsibilities, 21 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:30.299 we also talk about the relationship between in customer success and customer experience as 22 00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:34.090 a practice, why the approach most companies take to customer success is flawed and 23 00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:38.450 what they're doing to change that. We talk about leveling up your metrics by 24 00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:44.530 using the customer Maturity Index. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Luke Owen. 25 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:49.920 Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. If you've been with 26 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.760 us for a while. First, thank you, and second you may have 27 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:57.200 noticed that we've only had a few folks on the show with customer experience in 28 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.879 his or her title, and they tend to be advisors, consultant speakers in 29 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:05.430 that type. So today we have a gentleman who has customer experience in his 30 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:07.349 title. Will talk a little bit about that in particular. He spent more 31 00:02:07.389 --> 00:02:12.310 than four years and hub spot and account management spent four and a half years 32 00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:16.020 as director of customer success at Bedrock data. He's currently the director of customer 33 00:02:16.099 --> 00:02:21.780 experience at Form Stack. Luke Owen, welcome to the customer experience podcast. 34 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:25.340 Thank you, Atin by the beer good. Really really looking forward to this. 35 00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:28.780 I want to get into kind of the title, the role, the 36 00:02:28.819 --> 00:02:30.490 structure a little bit, and I think they're going to be some really fun 37 00:02:30.530 --> 00:02:34.250 nuances to get into there. But we'll start where we always start, with 38 00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:40.490 your definition or your thoughts or characteristics you'd identify in customer experience as a concept. 39 00:02:42.129 --> 00:02:46.400 Sure. So, for me customer experience is sort of the partner soul 40 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:54.400 of an organization that superceedes that relationship with the client right and keeps everybody aware 41 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.750 of how strong that is or how not strong that is, you know, 42 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:05.189 so that we can put in the right playbooks to to make that relationship at 43 00:03:05.310 --> 00:03:07.110 even stronger. So it's kind of like this coolest of view, right, 44 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.229 it's not like one team per se. It's sort of a sort of an 45 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:16.379 organization that has lots of moving parts, lots of different functions within it. 46 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:20.900 Awesome, you've done something that I have not heard, I don't think, 47 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.979 in asking that question, which is kind of personified and like that in the 48 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:27.610 heart and soul piece and and you tapped into something that is probably one of 49 00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:30.250 the most challenging things about customer experience, which is how do we get everyone 50 00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:35.129 on board, how do we create a holistic experience across the board and how 51 00:03:35.169 --> 00:03:38.650 do we make sure that all of these different I forget the term you used, 52 00:03:38.770 --> 00:03:42.439 but you know, department's, team, silos, functions, parts of 53 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.000 the organization are all operating together. Just for context, before we go a 54 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.199 lot farther, what is form stack do for folks that might not be familiar? 55 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.240 You know, what are you doing for customers? Sure so, form 56 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.590 stack. Little background. Form Sex actually been around for quite some time. 57 00:03:57.030 --> 00:03:59.550 Started around two thousand and six. Is One of the first, you know, 58 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:03.750 sort of no code form applications that you can build stop on your website 59 00:04:03.830 --> 00:04:06.909 to start, you know, getting people to fill out your form on your 60 00:04:06.949 --> 00:04:14.659 website. Over the past few years it's sort of migrated it's platform into being 61 00:04:15.139 --> 00:04:18.180 way more for sophisticated right. So all the intake data that you would bring 62 00:04:18.259 --> 00:04:21.779 in from your forms can now start to be utilized and sort of a back 63 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:29.329 office where to help smooth operations out within the organization. So lots of companies 64 00:04:29.569 --> 00:04:31.569 that find form stact really attractive nowadays. Are, you know, some of 65 00:04:31.649 --> 00:04:35.810 the EU healthcare. You know a form sex YIP, a compliance. So 66 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:41.759 a lot of these companies that operationally have a lot of inefficiencies, if you 67 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:45.680 will, haven't quite gotten into the modern world, but now can through like 68 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.759 this very sophisticated form application. So it's really the sort of smoothing the workforce, 69 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:54.470 if you will, operations Nice. This was part of that evolution. 70 00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:59.269 Apis where the data can then be put into all the places that various people 71 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:01.870 might need it. Well that it's interesting you bring that up. How I 72 00:05:01.990 --> 00:05:06.980 got to form stack was actually through the bed rock data crew, because we 73 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:13.620 got acquired by form stack earlier this year and part of the reason they acquired 74 00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:16.180 us, you know, certainly we share the same values and the same mission, 75 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:21.170 but they sort of needed this layer, or needed to make this layer 76 00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:26.050 more sophisticated, to take that data they're getting from their forms and be able 77 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:30.250 to start moving it around a little before efficiently to various systems that some of 78 00:05:30.290 --> 00:05:33.569 their customers are are using. Awesome. Love it and you actually answered a 79 00:05:33.569 --> 00:05:35.600 question I was going to follow up with there, which is how did you 80 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.240 find them? How did they find you? But that already came out. 81 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.680 So for context, what do you do as director of customer experience? I 82 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.519 think you know your background is an account management and see us in particular, 83 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:51.029 killer what's in the title for you and for the organization, and maybe then 84 00:05:51.269 --> 00:05:56.829 also kind of how are you structured? How do you report up? Who 85 00:05:56.910 --> 00:06:00.509 reports to you? Kind of what does this role mean in a in a 86 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:04.379 functional way? Right, right. So the role itself was was there before 87 00:06:04.420 --> 00:06:10.220 me, of course, so customer experience, but I actually I love the 88 00:06:10.259 --> 00:06:14.860 way that they've structured it. So what I what I focus on is the 89 00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:20.209 support organization and that the success organization, the success team. That didn't quite 90 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:24.689 exist until I got there. There was a one gentleman who was doing some, 91 00:06:25.610 --> 00:06:28.889 you know, count management, general success type activities, on boarding and 92 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:33.000 things like that, but wasn't fully developed out in any way. So I'm 93 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:40.560 helping to develop sort of that Customer Success Account Management Component of the experienced team, 94 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:45.639 as well as overseeing the support team that, again, has been there 95 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.149 for for many, many, many years. There is another elements, the 96 00:06:48.189 --> 00:06:53.470 customer experience team. That's also very important to this sort of holistic, you 97 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:57.589 know, view I have of what customer experience is, which is a professional 98 00:06:57.670 --> 00:07:00.699 services that's actually being developed. I don't oversee that. I've got a colleague 99 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:05.620 that, along with her and me, are overseeing sort of this whole customer 100 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:11.980 experience team that comprises them again, support success. That's me. She runs 101 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:15.699 the pro pro services. We have an operations believe it or not, we 102 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:18.810 have a little of CX operations, but I like to kind of draw a 103 00:07:19.370 --> 00:07:25.689 call like our our atmosphere, our protective ozone layer of the CX team. 104 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:28.850 Cool. And so what does opps do in that scenario? Is that like 105 00:07:29.050 --> 00:07:31.240 text AC and and data integrity or like, what is it? What is 106 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.199 opps in this context? Yeah, it's it is sort of the text act 107 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:41.000 management and primarily for CX, at least at the support level, it's end 108 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.949 us. So we use endsk at form stack, and so it's really that 109 00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:48.670 team keeping that system as healthy as possible, alongside some of the other systems 110 00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:53.550 that obviously care our customer data, such as sales force. Cool. So 111 00:07:54.110 --> 00:07:58.110 when you get acquired, you get this role, you get this title. 112 00:07:58.699 --> 00:08:01.740 What are like two or three of the first things you did? Like assess 113 00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:03.579 the scene and then, like what are a couple things that you said. 114 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.939 Okay, I'm going to start here, right and then the reason I ask 115 00:08:07.220 --> 00:08:11.459 is you know, so, for example, we have we have a VP 116 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:16.649 of customer success who oversees the success organization and a support organization, and we 117 00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:22.089 have directors of both of those functions and of course all the probably common rules 118 00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:24.930 that fall under those. Your structures a little bit different. And so if 119 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:30.279 someone is in a situation like ours here at bombomb and they want to move 120 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:35.279 to a situation like you're in, like when you get plugged in as director 121 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:37.840 of customer experience, what does this seem look like and what do you think? 122 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:39.960 Okay, these are the first two or three things I'm going to tackle. 123 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:46.629 So, given the support organization had been there and pretty well established by 124 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:50.110 a couple of folks that have been running the team for about two or three 125 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:54.669 years. One in particular had a strong background with apple retail and so she 126 00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:58.659 was really running a tight ship. So I looked at that team and they 127 00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:03.340 didn't have a lot to let's say fix if you will, although everything always 128 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.779 needs to grow with the team. You know, the company's growing. There's 129 00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:07.419 a lot, a lot of these acquisitions, there's a lot of moving parts 130 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:11.690 that certainly need to be to be worked through and work together on, but 131 00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:16.490 she's got a pretty good along with another manager recently promoted into the support team 132 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:20.250 since it's growing. So I was really been focused on sixth, on the 133 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:26.919 customer Success Management Team, since that again didn't quite exist besides just one individual, 134 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.320 and that's really where I kind of said, okay, we got to 135 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:33.279 get our processes. We're going to get our how are we working in alongside 136 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.759 sales? You know, some the most part sales had been the primaries, 137 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.789 sort of manager of clients to some extent, and so here comes along this 138 00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:45.269 customer success team and it's like, how do we work together and really making 139 00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:50.590 sure that we're getting that sort of relationship between sales and seat and customer success 140 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.259 as harmonious as possible. You know, they as as you know. If 141 00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:58.059 you can't make a good experience in that first ninety days, you're in an 142 00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:01.139 uphill B battle. So we have to really focus in as much as we 143 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:03.899 possibly can on how those two teams are going to work. Hees. That's 144 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:09.210 really where my focus has been, is kind of getting well and in hiring 145 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:13.289 the CSMS. Let's be honest, I got in there one guy. We 146 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:18.610 now have five CSM's, so that was mission critical, of course, when 147 00:10:18.610 --> 00:10:20.289 we first God, it is just building that team up. Cool. How 148 00:10:20.370 --> 00:10:26.039 do you organize your your CSM's is as they're like? Are Are they tiered 149 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.120 based on account size? Like when you look to build that team out from 150 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.679 scratchin a masking on behalf of someone that needs to do what you just did, 151 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.909 you know, what were your thoughts on how to how to hire and 152 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:43.389 arrange those? Yeah, so I'm going to answer it by saying there's a 153 00:10:43.429 --> 00:10:46.309 way I want to do it and there's a way we kind of had to 154 00:10:46.350 --> 00:10:50.139 do it to some extent because so, again, the background is with form 155 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:54.940 stack. They've gone through a bit of a hiring acquisitions free over the last 156 00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:58.620 year. So better ack was the fourth or third or fourth acquisition in the 157 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:03.419 last year. So there was a bunch of brands that are now part of 158 00:11:03.419 --> 00:11:07.210 the form stack world and the customers that could the ideas that it's customer success 159 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.210 overseas. If you're a form stack customer, if you're a better rock customer, 160 00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:15.370 if you're web merge customer, you're a form stack customer and we're going 161 00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:18.240 to be a customer success manager for you at some level. So because of 162 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.559 that we had to specialize a little bit, you know. So we got 163 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.120 two people from the support team that, you know, support always can be 164 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.919 a great place to look for customer success managers, product driven, you know. 165 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.830 So they've got a little bit of that relationship driven, you know, 166 00:11:33.029 --> 00:11:37.669 mindsets, some of that sales acting then can be a great place to kind 167 00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:41.629 of find some success managers, and so we brought two folks up from the 168 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:46.470 support team. So one of them just happens to be experienced with one of 169 00:11:46.509 --> 00:11:48.940 those brands, so she's focused on that brand as well as bet rock data 170 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:54.700 because of both pret technical and then there's the form stack core sort of support 171 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:58.500 reps, so she's focused really on form stack. We did bring one outside 172 00:11:58.539 --> 00:12:03.210 enterprise customer success manager who wasn't with inform stact as a way to, you 173 00:12:03.250 --> 00:12:07.409 know, obviously I'm there as a director, but in an additional leader to 174 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:09.570 kind of be there along with this really junior team for the most part. 175 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:15.129 So that was the only outside and she's just focus on enterprise to some of 176 00:12:15.169 --> 00:12:20.559 our more marquee clients. kind of that's so. So that's kind of specialized, 177 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.879 right. So it's very targeted in terms of like what you can work 178 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.879 with at a technical level. Ideally, what would like to get to is 179 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:33.710 more of its structure at a sort of revenue level. So if you're, 180 00:12:35.070 --> 00:12:37.629 you know, paying anywhere from three hundred and ninety nine to, you know, 181 00:12:37.710 --> 00:12:41.029 six hundred and Tinety nine, you're in the small busines, you know, 182 00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:43.750 mid market team or small business team, and then we get to the 183 00:12:43.789 --> 00:12:46.740 midmarket and then we get to enterprise and it really doesn't matter which products you 184 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:50.460 have. It's more we're going to tier it in that way. So it's 185 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.779 makes it a little bit more you don't have to necessarily think about it at 186 00:12:52.779 --> 00:12:56.940 a product level, and I can get a little bit tricky and Harry, 187 00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.210 because then as people buy more products, then you have to constantly be thinking 188 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:03.090 about, oh now I got US sign us out over here to this, 189 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:05.929 and then that customer experience to starts to break down. So if you make 190 00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:11.370 it more simplistic at a revenue level, likely, you know, customers are 191 00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:15.159 going to be jumping that often, although you of course want them to expand, 192 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.759 but they're going to probably stay within a certain traunch for a little while 193 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.320 and have that customer experience sort of stay somewhat, hopefully the same the same 194 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.750 person over time, really important. I love that. This idea of being 195 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.070 sensitive to, you know, breaking those relationships and starting new ones. You 196 00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:35.750 know, the handoff from sales to SS is enough to manage well, you 197 00:13:35.830 --> 00:13:39.429 know, and then handing, additional handling, additional handoffs beyond that can be 198 00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:43.740 tricky. Cool. I it's interesting the situation and I can definitely see you 199 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:48.019 going in the next evolution or kind of the next expansion of the team to 200 00:13:48.139 --> 00:13:50.620 go, you know, in the direction that you've described, once you have 201 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:54.500 kind of the brands and product breaks covered a bit and people start to to 202 00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:58.129 grow. Let's get a little bit into your philosophy. I mean again, 203 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.570 you have a you know, a decade of experience in Account Management and C 204 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:05.330 S, which I guess actually let's start. They're had a conversation with a 205 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:11.000 guy that I work with and we're talking about CSS in a way just being 206 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.960 the new language for account management. Talk a little bit about either or both 207 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:22.879 of customer success or customer experience as kind of new languages or they feel new, 208 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.789 especially to someone younger in their career that hasn't seen kind of the old 209 00:14:26.909 --> 00:14:31.429 become new again. Talk a little bit about either. Were both of those 210 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.750 terms and kind of what they mean to you from a we've been working on 211 00:14:35.870 --> 00:14:39.899 customer success pretty much since we've been running businesses, but we have this language 212 00:14:39.940 --> 00:14:43.980 in some practices around to talk about that. Yeah, so I'll give you 213 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:46.620 sort of my background. Right is, as you mentioned, or so years 214 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.220 at hub spot and I started there in two thousand and ten and when I 215 00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:54.370 join, you know, they had this customer success management sort of team that 216 00:14:54.529 --> 00:15:00.049 was building out from the consulting team that they had and I you know, 217 00:15:00.289 --> 00:15:03.009 for me I didn't quite know what that meant to some extent, but as 218 00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:07.080 I got into the role it became kind of a running joke that we'd always 219 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.480 be like, you know, I'm your customer success manager and that's just a 220 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.159 fancy way saying your account manager. Right. We we constant extend because clients 221 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.240 of ours, you know, hut spot had all sorts of different kinds of 222 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.870 customers, from mom and pop shops to, you know, various big businesses, 223 00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:24.269 and they didn't know what the Hecker Customer Success Manager was. We ended 224 00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:28.269 up actually changing the title at hub spot, I want to say maybe two 225 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:31.870 years in when I was here, maybe in the year and a half or 226 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.309 something like that, from Customer Success Manager to Account Manager. He said let's 227 00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:37.899 stop, let's stop having to say that extra thing, right, you guys 228 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.700 work out managers. And then, funny enough, and I still have a 229 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:46.179 business card for when we were CSMS and I never got it changed. You 230 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:48.100 know who use the business cards, and all those times, and then I 231 00:15:48.139 --> 00:15:52.690 left in two thousand and fifteen and we moved back to being called customer success 232 00:15:52.690 --> 00:15:56.250 managers. So I think it was kind of like this evolution of the market, 233 00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.090 just shoving it down businesses sort of I wouldn't say throats, but hey, 234 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.840 that customer success manager team essentially mean a dedicated person that helps you with 235 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.639 your account over a like period of your which is kind of a again, 236 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:14.480 it's account manager. So for me, I it's I struggle with it to 237 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.480 sometimes because yes, we have customers because as managers the form stack, but 238 00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:21.990 to me it's not just one team. Write the or. You know, 239 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.269 if we had a customer success team at form stack, I probably structure it 240 00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:29.029 just like I am doing it, with the customer just like they did it 241 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:33.460 and how I'm adopting it with customer experience. That it is sort of this 242 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:40.779 pillar of foundational functions that involved that ball around account management and on boarding and 243 00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:45.419 customer support, prosservices, right. So it's like those things in another themselves 244 00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:48.929 are customer success or customer experience, for whatever you want to call cool. 245 00:16:49.370 --> 00:16:52.649 Let's get a little bit into philosophy and I'll start with, and I've just 246 00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.610 got a few of these for you, customer success as a philosophy, not 247 00:16:56.809 --> 00:17:00.929 as a function. This gets a little bit back to holism, but I 248 00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:03.000 love you just kind of share your perspective and maybe a couple things you've learned 249 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.480 over the past decade around around this. Yeah, I mean I think to 250 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.079 me it's pretty pretty obvious. Right at the end of the day, you 251 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:18.750 have to lead out with the customers. What kind of value are they perceiving 252 00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:22.349 right to get out of your solution, or what do they want to get, 253 00:17:22.829 --> 00:17:27.789 and really centering all of your conversation from the beginning sale right all the 254 00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:33.180 way to the on boarding and throughout the life of that customer and really understanding 255 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.940 what are your primary desired outcomes, as they want to call it, what 256 00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:40.299 do you want to achieve? And sometimes they don't always know and it's our 257 00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:44.059 job to help guide them to what those might need to be and if we 258 00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:47.369 lead out with that right not to say, Oh, you know, I 259 00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:49.170 have product A, B and C and that's what you know. You woke 260 00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:52.289 up one morning saying you need it. We need to really be digging into 261 00:17:52.690 --> 00:17:56.450 not this is the product I have for you, but you're use case that 262 00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:00.000 you have or your desire, you know, outcomes that you have I can 263 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:04.039 help you with and it just so happens these solutions can get you there. 264 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:11.400 And to me that philosophy has to has to be throughout the entire organization. 265 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.349 It can't just be the customer success team that's carrying that philosophy through. has 266 00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:18.470 to be everybody and at the end of the day, your you need to 267 00:18:18.549 --> 00:18:25.430 build the resources to continue to not just say I'll we've successfully sold them on, 268 00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:27.900 letting them say, Hey, I can get my use cases imployment with 269 00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:30.579 this product and then we're off, you know, we're off to the new 270 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:34.380 client. You have to continue to identify, okay, I got that use 271 00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:37.460 case, implement it. Now, what's a new one you want to do? 272 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.250 You know, in seven months or eight months there's something new. Otherwise 273 00:18:41.289 --> 00:18:45.329 you're just it's just a static thing. Or I successfully did what I want 274 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.849 to do. And then if there's no identification of other new things, things 275 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:52.849 they want to do or other goals or other use cases, and you're not 276 00:18:52.049 --> 00:18:57.200 tracking that and you don't have a team that's maintaining that, then that's where 277 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:02.200 the SASS model breaks apart. As we know, you're just that that long 278 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.400 tail is going to get chopped off the minute they get bored of your product 279 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:08.359 and it's so easy to leave it out. So if you're not keeping that 280 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:12.589 cycle of use case understanding and what they want to get, what their desire 281 00:19:12.589 --> 00:19:15.150 outcomes, are you not tracking it? You don't have a process, whether 282 00:19:15.269 --> 00:19:18.910 that's a human being process, if you're a BB company selling a large inner 283 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:23.940 quest solution, or some automated team working through and tracking these things, and 284 00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:26.779 you you're dead in the water. Over, I don't know how long you're 285 00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:32.299 going to be around, but it's going to take. It'll happen. Yeah. 286 00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:36.099 So so let's pick up on that. I love the documentation and the 287 00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:41.210 continued conversation or that is such that you can retain and expand these accounts, 288 00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:45.410 metrics and measures. So you know, got traditional ones like churn and health 289 00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.450 scores. I'd love to hear a little bit more about the customer maturity index 290 00:19:48.809 --> 00:19:52.160 and when we were chatting before we hit record, you know you're working on 291 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:56.880 something else. So I don't know how secret it is, but you know, 292 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.440 I'd love to know how you see the future of metrics and measures of 293 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.920 success. So start with the traditional going to the maturity index and then here 294 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.990 as much as you're willing and able. Sure. So, so right churn, 295 00:20:08.109 --> 00:20:14.150 everybody always focusing on and it's important. We've tend to look more specifically 296 00:20:14.150 --> 00:20:18.309 at net revenue, retention, at a form stack, so kind of taking 297 00:20:18.109 --> 00:20:22.619 all that into one you know, consideration, you know, we look at 298 00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:25.660 it from a quarter to quarter basis. We look at net retension. So 299 00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:27.500 there is a key KPI for us. Don't don't get me wrong, but 300 00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:30.859 I always struggle with it. I think a lot of us do. That 301 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:33.180 that's that's a that's a lagging in the kid. You know, it's not 302 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.490 so much what should I be looking out for, Worre should I be focusing 303 00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:45.009 my time? So I stumbled upon bowses bowse mayors right customer Maturity Index, 304 00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:48.410 I guess what about two years ago, and to me it was kind of 305 00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:52.200 a light bulb moment in some regard of that. We always are asking ourselves 306 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.599 at hut spot I. You know a lot of smart people. They're like, 307 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.200 how else can I say this customer success team is being success? Like 308 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:02.599 how are we how are we measuring what the customer success team was doing and 309 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.109 then ultimately leading to our customers being successful, or potentially successful, if you 310 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:08.869 will, like, what kind of measurement can we do? And is always 311 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:12.869 lots of different like experiments and stuff like that, but nothing really seems sick. 312 00:21:14.470 --> 00:21:18.220 And so his idea really Reson it with me now what we're doing at 313 00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:21.700 form stack. So I don't know if you want me to go into details 314 00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:25.740 of what the CMI is, or maybe basics, like like a quick drive 315 00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:29.299 by, and again I'll link up to it in the in the blog post. 316 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:30.500 For anyone that's listening that wants to check it out. Just go to 317 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:36.769 bombombcom slash podcast and then all the all the blog post will be posted there 318 00:21:36.809 --> 00:21:37.849 and I'll link it up. But yeah, just give a give a, 319 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.490 you know, couple lines on the CMI. Sure. So the idea is 320 00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:45.529 that obviously everybody knows health scores. Generally speaking, you're building out sort of 321 00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:48.640 this score of like how healthy is the client based on their usage of your 322 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.680 product? Right, so it's more of a how healthy is that relationship from 323 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.599 with your customer and your product, which is important. It's great to have 324 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.240 that insight, but in and of itself that's not a great sort of idea 325 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.509 of how successful they might be. Are How happy it might be? Are 326 00:22:03.630 --> 00:22:07.470 they a churn risk? It you know you have somebody using your product like 327 00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:11.190 crazy, but still be a churn risk. So he add this idea of 328 00:22:11.349 --> 00:22:15.140 the customer maturity index, which would be sitting alongside another access point with the 329 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:21.779 health score, that really focus more on the relationship of your customers abilities to 330 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:26.859 gain value out of your product. How structured are they in their organization, 331 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:32.329 from things like have they used a product like yours before? Who are the 332 00:22:32.410 --> 00:22:34.609 stakeholders? How many are there? Does this go all the way up to 333 00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:40.529 the sea sweet or is it just some one employee that's overseeing one department that's 334 00:22:40.569 --> 00:22:42.730 bringing this in as an experiment? And how likely, what did they need 335 00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:48.759 to be successful and kind of gaging that sort of whatever those attributes are for 336 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.000 your business can vary. So it's building that index alongside with the Health Score, 337 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.839 gives you this sort of Matrix that you can then start plotting your customers 338 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.869 on. Okay, they're using your product, but they're not really set up 339 00:22:59.910 --> 00:23:03.109 to really understand how to gain that value. Right. So you have all 340 00:23:03.150 --> 00:23:06.549 these playbooks based on the four quadrooms that you have that you can start to 341 00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:08.230 play out. You start to think like, oh, top right, those 342 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:11.349 are people that are using our pot like and our wealth positioned within the organization. 343 00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:15.700 Based on their structure, they should be our success stories. Does it 344 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.619 mean? Again, none of this means that these people are happy and I'm 345 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.380 not turn risk. It just means that's what they should be and that's our 346 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:22.940 playbook. Right. We now to make them happy, you know, be 347 00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:27.089 they should be our our advocates and our referral mechanisms. And then the lower 348 00:23:27.089 --> 00:23:30.130 left, of course, are you're not using your products, not really structured 349 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:33.170 that well. A lot of effort to go in right to try to make 350 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.049 those people turn around, and sometimes you have to make decisions right in our 351 00:23:37.089 --> 00:23:41.519 kind of businesses, that you might just have to leave those folks alone for 352 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.200 a little bit and start focusing on the areas we have their opportunity. That 353 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.480 is that, in the nutshell, right and to me and I open to 354 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.039 add this extra layer along your health food. Now, how we're doing that 355 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.309 at forms to act slightly different variation that we're starting to play out. It's 356 00:23:56.390 --> 00:24:00.309 very early stage. I don't have any results, but it's kind of being 357 00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:03.710 piloted right now where we're taking this sort of approach of if you think about 358 00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:07.829 this journey, right, of a customer within a company like form stack or 359 00:24:07.869 --> 00:24:11.619 any software, or it really any company, I guess there's all these different 360 00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:17.859 periods and milestones that you have that you call this desired outcome. Right, 361 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:22.980 I have a desired outcome on a feature. There's a feature I really like 362 00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:26.890 to would like to have so I can do more things with your solution. 363 00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:30.170 Right, that's a desire I coming now. Maybe I needed immediately, maybe 364 00:24:30.369 --> 00:24:32.490 it's a nice to have. So if you get it in six months, 365 00:24:32.529 --> 00:24:34.410 great, whatever it is, but there's some desire there. And then there's 366 00:24:34.450 --> 00:24:38.240 also down to the like its minuter things up. I got a support ticket 367 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.799 and it's turned into a bug and it's impeding our ability to really use your 368 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:45.319 product. Well, so I have a desired outcome of having that bug fixed 369 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:52.200 in a certain time period. Tracking those is really tricky because you've got all 370 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.029 those things happening in various places. But if your organizations like FORSAC, where 371 00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.670 you're building a customer success component, or Account Management Team Component, whatever you 372 00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:04.710 want to call it, in this sort of layer of customer experience, then 373 00:25:04.789 --> 00:25:08.779 you have this opportunity to have this team that oversees their clients be able to 374 00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:15.539 identify those desired outcomes and start tracking and creating literally an activity fee, because 375 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:17.859 that's what desired outcomes are. They're going to happen, they're going to happen 376 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:21.890 multiple, multiple times. Some of them are going to have more importance to 377 00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:25.410 the likelihood of the customer being happy over a period of time. So you 378 00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:29.890 can start to kind of envision a similar sort of Constitutencymi, where you add 379 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:34.170 a different layer of waiting cut mechanisms to those desired outcomes. Did you do 380 00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:41.359 that extra index alongside your product usage? That's how where we're focusing our love. 381 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.680 It really I'd love to follow up in like six to ten six to 382 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:48.599 ten months and to see how it's going. Is really clever ways to layer 383 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.269 that last thing here before we kind of move on to a couple slightly more 384 00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:57.390 personal questions for fun. Three pillars of success here, you know, onboarding, 385 00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.309 account management and supporter, or kind of the three pillars of success. 386 00:26:00.710 --> 00:26:03.380 Where do you see maybe for each of those, where do you maybe see 387 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:07.700 people fall down or missed opportunities or, you know, for someone that's that's 388 00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:12.180 listening, it's that that is in CST Cx, talk about the importance of 389 00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:17.660 these three pillars and maybe a just a pro tip around each of them. 390 00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:25.009 Yeah, I think it's easy for organizations to want to say right that they're 391 00:26:25.490 --> 00:26:30.569 a unified organization, but at the end of the day these are separate teams. 392 00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:34.559 Right. Support has its functions and its processes. Customer success has its 393 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.880 functions in this processies and pro services and on, you know, whatever it 394 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.480 is, technical services and support engineers, they have their processes and teams and 395 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:47.470 managers. So you know, you we're all under one umbrella, but we 396 00:26:47.630 --> 00:26:51.430 have to we have to have this vision right, that were we are one 397 00:26:51.549 --> 00:26:55.109 team. You know, doesn't matter where you sit and where you might be 398 00:26:55.710 --> 00:26:59.589 in terms of your responsibilities with the client, at the end of the day 399 00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:03.859 we're one big outfit called customer experience, and I think it's it's easy to 400 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.740 like lose that. I guess focus and lose that, lose that vision sometimes 401 00:27:07.779 --> 00:27:11.940 because when we go back into, like our respective teams were back into the 402 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:15.579 grind right of the day to day. So it's trying to kind of keep 403 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:18.289 everybody, you know, reminding of what is that vision, even if it's 404 00:27:18.289 --> 00:27:22.250 not fully implemented right that moment and it may still be a little disjointed and 405 00:27:22.410 --> 00:27:23.650 people are saying like, when's this going to happen? When are we going 406 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.730 to be like seeing across both internally and organization and externally by our customers as 407 00:27:27.809 --> 00:27:33.240 is one big giant organization that can help you grow and be successful with our 408 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.920 business. I think it's just continuing to have that focus, even if things 409 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.720 are going to they're going to fall apart from time to time, right, 410 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.349 and you just got to keep keep people's energy up about where we're going to 411 00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:47.309 go and it might take six months or m take ten months or whatever. 412 00:27:48.069 --> 00:27:52.549 So that's the thing. You don't lose help very it. It's gets good 413 00:27:52.630 --> 00:27:56.950 for anyone. It's kind of a fun question that I that I tend to 414 00:27:56.990 --> 00:28:00.700 ask people who specialize and I've asked it across all three of these kind of 415 00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:03.779 departments, marketing, sales and see us I'll just ask this to you one 416 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:06.579 way. What do you wish in your experience? What do you wish more 417 00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:14.289 salespeople knew or understood about customer success? Great Question. I love that question. 418 00:28:14.769 --> 00:28:19.170 What I wish they understood about come is that we're we're partners with them 419 00:28:19.690 --> 00:28:23.450 and that we're not competitives, but we're not in a competitive space, like 420 00:28:23.930 --> 00:28:27.440 we're not fighting to get, you know, the upgrade. You know that 421 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:33.160 that you might be also try. Like sometimes you get these various areas of 422 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.720 like sales has, you know, measured also on their retent to, their 423 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:40.160 ability to grow there install base, and then csms come along and it's like, 424 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.910 whoa Wa wait a minute, what's happening here, like are they taking 425 00:28:44.029 --> 00:28:47.390 over my relationship with this client? And it has to be seen more as 426 00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:51.750 a partnership, you know, in that customer success is there to help really 427 00:28:51.950 --> 00:28:56.980 grow that customer together and hopefully benefits both of us. Of course it end 428 00:28:56.980 --> 00:29:00.460 a day, but certainly you, salesperson, will reap the benefits because we'll 429 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:06.299 be helping those customers use the product more and those expansion opportunities and up graportudies 430 00:29:06.339 --> 00:29:11.170 will come along the way. Love it one team don't lose hope. So 431 00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:15.450 personal question, just because I'm curious and that's the fun opportunity I have as 432 00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:18.650 to host of the show to talk to smart folks like you. You are 433 00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:22.009 a Bachelor of Science and philosophy at the University of Vermont. Why Philosophy, 434 00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:26.799 and is there any kind of unique or surprising way that it's it's you know, 435 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.880 you found yourself somewhere along your career dream said man, I'm so glad 436 00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.880 I have a background philosophy. Right. So it's one of those stories, 437 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.240 right. I you know, backgrounds easy. I. How did I get 438 00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:40.029 into it? I was a business major starting out and I hated the professor's 439 00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.670 right the end of the day, I had a hard time going into that 440 00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:49.950 building and actually feeling like I was going to have a successful educational outcome, 441 00:29:51.509 --> 00:29:56.980 whereas I'm like philosophy classes, I loved all the professors engaged, you know, 442 00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.019 going in that building was was a breath of press here, and so 443 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:02.980 for me it was like a no brainer, like I don't want to go 444 00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:06.940 through this next four years not being happy with who I'm being taught by. 445 00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:10.089 I'd rather go and have a good relationship with my professor. That was really 446 00:30:10.130 --> 00:30:12.450 the big obviously, at the end of day, reason why I went to 447 00:30:12.569 --> 00:30:18.289 philosophy. I'm somebody who likes to be I like having the ability to talk 448 00:30:18.410 --> 00:30:22.799 to people about my ideas, of my opinions, but also listen to them 449 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:27.200 and try to understand their argument, and I find that aspect of philosophy and 450 00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:33.200 what I learned in that process has immensely helped me in what I've done over 451 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.269 the last ten years in my career. Working with customers all walks of life. 452 00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:41.630 You have to really understand where they're coming from. You can never assume 453 00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:45.869 right that somebody knows something that you might know or knows it in the same 454 00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:49.539 way right and how they're talking to you about it. So to me that 455 00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:55.819 is such a great background if you're somebody WHO's trying to get into customer service 456 00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:00.859 sales. Even just being able to understand how to have those dialogs so good. 457 00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:03.289 I'm so glad I asked. Hey, this has been awesome. I've 458 00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:07.970 really enjoyed it. Love what you're doing. Love that you already have a 459 00:31:07.049 --> 00:31:11.650 vision for where you're going while you're, you know, turning, you know, 460 00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:15.609 building this team out under, you know, an acquisition and merge situation 461 00:31:15.849 --> 00:31:21.200 here. Relationships are our number one core value here at bombomb and on the 462 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.599 podcast, and so I always like to give you the chance at this point 463 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:27.599 to think or mention someone who has a had a positive impact on your life 464 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:32.119 for career and to give a mention to a company that you really respect for 465 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:37.470 the types of experiences they're delivering to you as a customer. I've had some 466 00:31:37.710 --> 00:31:41.390 really I mean it's a tough question and yet I know you were going to 467 00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:44.390 ask him. I've been thinking of Bout my head, like who who has 468 00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:47.109 had the biggest impact, and it's kind of on the things where it's the 469 00:31:47.180 --> 00:31:49.299 most recent. I guess that I would say when I came into bed rock. 470 00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:52.539 You know, I came out of hub spot. Had A lot of 471 00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:57.140 experience, obviously there with the customer experience, but not a ton of focus. 472 00:31:57.380 --> 00:32:00.740 Right, if you think about it, it's like million things that you 473 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:02.450 want to try to do when you get this opportunity coming out of like being 474 00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:06.329 an interest contributor and wanted to grow a team. It's like where do you 475 00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:10.049 focus? So I was immediately probably not focus very well. When I was 476 00:32:10.170 --> 00:32:15.519 first at bedrock we brought on a crow chief ev an officer probably around two 477 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:21.519 thousand and thirteen the amount de Petro and he his backgrounds log me in. 478 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.279 He's had tons of experience in the Boston area in the revenue space, but 479 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.990 he really helped kind of tone my ability to focus on working through the problems 480 00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:36.549 that needed to be worked on the most, and I would say that experience 481 00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:43.150 and understanding that the sales relationship, between sales and customer experience, customer success. 482 00:32:43.269 --> 00:32:46.259 I owe a ton to that man. Awesome. How about a company 483 00:32:46.339 --> 00:32:51.700 that you've had some good experiences with great experience? Well, you know, 484 00:32:51.859 --> 00:32:57.579 for talking about from a business software, I guess experience. You know, 485 00:32:57.660 --> 00:33:01.289 I myself tend to try to limit how much text Stac I have to be 486 00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:05.849 honest with you, so I don't. You know, I use sales force 487 00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:08.609 and I can't say too much about their experience, to be perfectly honest. 488 00:33:09.089 --> 00:33:13.720 But you know, in terms of I use every note. I absolutely love 489 00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:15.519 ever notes. You know, it's not a you know, it's a one 490 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:19.680 too many experiences of product experience, what they do and how they help me 491 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.039 guide, like how I can structure my notes and just little things that the 492 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:27.390 tech touches that they do. I think there are phenomenal company in that regard. 493 00:33:27.910 --> 00:33:30.750 I am a big user, though, at a music level. I 494 00:33:31.069 --> 00:33:38.710 use all sorts of applications for music. I use from spotify to soundcloud to, 495 00:33:39.710 --> 00:33:43.500 you know, use word pressed for a blog that I used to run, 496 00:33:44.019 --> 00:33:46.539 and medium, you know. So all those companies inspire the heck out 497 00:33:46.579 --> 00:33:50.220 of me, you know, at a sort of how do I make the 498 00:33:50.299 --> 00:33:53.660 experience? How can I somewhat are you know, replicate some of those experiences 499 00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:59.250 of this company do like spotify, Netflix and those companies and bringing into the 500 00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:04.089 BB space, obviously with the not the data scientists they've got, but sort 501 00:34:04.130 --> 00:34:07.490 of be able to replicate that in some level? Awesome. So I you 502 00:34:07.569 --> 00:34:09.280 know, take away there for anyone listening is look around you, because you 503 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.320 have everyday experiences that could be you know, if you're a little bit more 504 00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.760 conscious, for intentional about it, you could apply the things that you're experiencing 505 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:22.920 yourself and and turn those into practices and experiences for your customers every day loop. 506 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:27.150 This has been awesome. How can someone connect with you or follow up 507 00:34:27.190 --> 00:34:30.670 with you and or with form stack whim on twitter? Pretty active on twitter. 508 00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:37.630 My handles chip Owen. That's Kip from a nickname throughout high school and 509 00:34:37.710 --> 00:34:42.099 college and just never goes away. Might as well keep it at Kip Oh 510 00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:45.099 and if you want to pay me there and also on Linkedin. You know 511 00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:51.300 it's for simple luke own cool and form stack is form stackcom, form stack, 512 00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:53.889 Yep, loup dot own a, form Stacom. Awesome. Thank you 513 00:34:54.010 --> 00:34:58.329 so much for your time. Thanks so much for your insights. Continued success 514 00:34:58.369 --> 00:35:00.010 to you. Love the journey that you're on and I really appreciate your time 515 00:35:00.050 --> 00:35:06.369 with us. Thanks. Thank you. I have to tell you I'm never 516 00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:10.920 disappointed when I ask what more salespeople should know or understand about cs or what 517 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.920 marketers should know or understand about sales. If you want more conversations like this 518 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:22.190 one, subscribe to the customer experience podcast in your favorite player and if you 519 00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:28.550 want to go deeper into this episode or any other, visit bombombcom slash podcast. 520 00:35:28.949 --> 00:35:32.190 We break down every episode with right ups and video clips and a whole 521 00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:37.340 lot more. That's at bombombcom slash podcast. My name is Ethan Butt and 522 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:45.619 thanks for listening to the B tob growth show. We totally get it. 523 00:35:45.019 --> 00:35:49.659 We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot 524 00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:52.530 to keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB growth big three, 525 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:58.530 a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week 526 00:35:58.570 --> 00:36:04.210 of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet 527 00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:07.039 PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three