#CX 34: Delivering Extraordinary CX Is Easier Than You Think w/ Dan Gingiss

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.320 I always thought that executive is it. Any company should be customers of their 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:10.630 company, and they should be regular old customers. A relationship with the right 3 00:00:10.710 --> 00:00:15.269 referral partner could be a game changer for any BEDB company. So what if 4 00:00:15.310 --> 00:00:20.309 you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's notice, start a podcast, 5 00:00:20.789 --> 00:00:26.140 invite potential referral partners to be guests on your show and grow your referral network 6 00:00:26.219 --> 00:00:36.009 faster than ever. Learn more. At Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to be 7 00:00:36.130 --> 00:00:40.969 tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've 8 00:00:40.969 --> 00:00:44.850 probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably 9 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:48.770 never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our 10 00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:53.240 interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the 11 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:58.560 trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with Pactics, 12 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:02.840 they're building the fastest growing betb companies in the world. My name is 13 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:06.510 James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for 14 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:10.310 BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When 15 00:01:10.349 --> 00:01:14.310 we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes 16 00:01:14.349 --> 00:01:18.030 of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as 17 00:01:18.069 --> 00:01:23.299 we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get 18 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:32.420 into the show. Ignorance maybe bliss, but it's not defensible in court. 19 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:34.769 Right now, on the B tob growth show we're going to spend some time 20 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:40.329 with Sharon Toregg, and intellectual property and marketing law attorney who's going to help 21 00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:44.609 us stay on the right side of the law as we look to build awareness, 22 00:01:44.969 --> 00:01:48.959 earn customers and grow our businesses. My name is Ethan, but I 23 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:52.239 host the CX series here on the B Tob Growth Show, and here's our 24 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:57.120 conversation. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. This is going 25 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.200 to be a fun episode. You will be glad that you click play on 26 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:05.390 this one. Our guest is run social media and digital marketing at companies with 27 00:02:05.510 --> 00:02:09.189 household names like McDonald's, humana discover. He's the author of the book winning 28 00:02:09.229 --> 00:02:15.629 at Social Customer Care. He's the cohost of experience. This another customer experience 29 00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:20.020 podcast which he co hosts with my guest on episode fifteen of this podcast, 30 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:24.780 Joey Coleman, and he's the chief experienced officer at the company winning customer experience, 31 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:29.819 Didn Geing us. Welcome to the customer experience podcast. Well, thank 32 00:02:29.860 --> 00:02:32.969 you so much for having me. I'm excited for the conversation and can't wait 33 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:37.729 to get started. Yeah, me too, and so will start where I 34 00:02:37.770 --> 00:02:42.090 always start, which is your thoughts or your definition or that primary characteristics of 35 00:02:42.889 --> 00:02:46.520 customer experience. When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you? 36 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:52.479 Well, to me it means how customers feel about every single interaction with 37 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:57.919 your brand. And the two underlines there are the feeling part, because perception 38 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.430 is reality. And so if we think we've built the best mobile APP in 39 00:03:01.469 --> 00:03:06.710 the world and our and our designers and our programmers and everybody tells us that 40 00:03:06.830 --> 00:03:09.069 it's the best mobile APP in the world, but our customers say that it's 41 00:03:09.069 --> 00:03:13.219 really difficult to use, then the answer is it's really difficult to use. 42 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:15.900 The other part, though, is the every single interaction, and this is 43 00:03:15.979 --> 00:03:21.219 where I think most companies fall down, is that every single interaction can mean 44 00:03:21.340 --> 00:03:24.419 everything from a direct mail piece to a phone call, to a social media 45 00:03:24.500 --> 00:03:29.530 interaction to the website to the mobile APP, to an in store experience, 46 00:03:30.009 --> 00:03:35.289 and the problem is is that all of those experiences at most big companies are 47 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:39.490 designed by different people in a very siload organization, and then the result is 48 00:03:39.689 --> 00:03:44.879 that we as customers sort of field as choppiness where things don't align or don't 49 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.000 connect as well as we would like them too. So those are the two 50 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:52.159 things to me that make up the definition that are really critical. It's great, 51 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:53.840 and something that you made me think about there in the back half of 52 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:59.629 that is that one weakness, you know, like the the chain is as 53 00:03:59.669 --> 00:04:02.550 strong as it's weakest link or whatever, just just one weakness in all of 54 00:04:02.669 --> 00:04:09.270 that set of touch points casts potentially negative thoughts and feelings and then ultimately potentially 55 00:04:09.310 --> 00:04:14.900 negative stories about the entire experience, even though you know eighty percent of it 56 00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:17.779 is spot on. You know the twenty percent that isn't can can really damage 57 00:04:17.779 --> 00:04:21.899 the rest for sure, and I think that's the biggest risk today, is 58 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:27.610 that it really only takes one mistake sometimes to lose a customer, and so 59 00:04:27.769 --> 00:04:30.649 the stakes are really high. One of the things that I have found really 60 00:04:30.769 --> 00:04:34.810 fascinating, and this is what I often talked about on stage, and work 61 00:04:34.889 --> 00:04:39.879 with clients on is that is that people are actually the research shows that people 62 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:46.560 are actually more willing to share highly positive experiences then they are negative ones. 63 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:49.680 But the problem is, and ask any consumer, we just don't have very 64 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.629 many positive experiences to show. And so I love doing this on stage. 65 00:04:54.670 --> 00:04:58.269 I'll say hey, raise your hand if you can remember the last time you 66 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:01.149 had such a remarkable experience with the brand that you couldn't wait to tell your 67 00:05:01.189 --> 00:05:04.269 friends, a family, and you know for hands go up. And then 68 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:08.060 I say okay, now, raise your hand if you remember the last time 69 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:11.500 that you were disappointed in an experience with a company, and everybody's hands go 70 00:05:11.579 --> 00:05:16.339 up. So we tend to share these disappointments because they happen to us a 71 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:20.970 lot and they are sort of on one end of the spectrum that's worth sharing 72 00:05:21.009 --> 00:05:26.689 because they're good stories. But we're actually more willing to share those positive ones 73 00:05:26.689 --> 00:05:29.970 if we just had some positive ones to share it. So I love to 74 00:05:30.529 --> 00:05:34.250 explore with companies how do you create those positive ones that people want to share 75 00:05:34.370 --> 00:05:40.240 just as much as the negative ones and actually change that sentiment great and that 76 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:44.720 that just leads right into if, for anyone listening, I create outlines of 77 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.639 these conversations. I try to keep them loose, but I do have places 78 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.230 I want to go with them, and so this actually goes right into the 79 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:55.350 next question I kind of generated prior to our connecting here, which is like, 80 00:05:55.589 --> 00:05:59.990 how are people operationalizing customer experience? Like, in addition to speaking and 81 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:03.300 writing and doing podcasting, you consult, so you're inside these organizations. Like, 82 00:06:03.819 --> 00:06:06.779 what does the consulting engagement look like for you? What a people need? 83 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:13.699 How our companies operationalizing and creating this kind of alignment and consistency within their 84 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:16.779 organizations? Were some whees that look like today? Well, first of all, 85 00:06:16.819 --> 00:06:19.810 I don't claim to be able to knock down all the silos, because 86 00:06:19.850 --> 00:06:25.290 that that can be an impossible task. But usually what I find is that 87 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:30.569 there's two ways to approach the problem, to simplest fastest way, and the 88 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:35.360 way that I always suggest that you start is to identify the pain points that 89 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:41.439 are there today and to get rid of them. And oftentimes companies get so 90 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:48.589 wrapped up in innovation and big technology product projects that the queue to get little 91 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:53.269 projects done is so long they just never get done. And so one of 92 00:06:53.269 --> 00:06:56.350 the things I did when I was at discover. That was really successful is 93 00:06:56.750 --> 00:07:01.740 I managed to essentially grab the person from the technology team and I said I 94 00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:06.220 just got to rent this person for like three weeks and all the person did 95 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:12.259 was work on little pain points on at the time it was the website, 96 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:15.329 just little things that we had identified that we knew were angering customers because they 97 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:18.329 were frustrating and they were so easy to fix, but we just never could 98 00:07:18.370 --> 00:07:24.810 get them prioritized next to, you know, these giant innovation projects. So 99 00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:28.889 in the span of three weeks we fixed about a hundred things and not one 100 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:30.720 of them, you know, was big enough to knock the whole thing down, 101 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:36.040 but a hundred little changes made a huge impact. And, not coincidentally, 102 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:40.879 that was the first year that discover one the JD power award for highest 103 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:45.709 customer satisfaction, an award that they were really pursuing because mx had wanted, 104 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:48.910 you know, all seven years of his existence and if you think about an 105 00:07:48.910 --> 00:07:55.910 mx is this big, highly respected brand. Discover is a much smaller brand, 106 00:07:56.149 --> 00:08:00.699 midwest, different kind of a customer base, and to win that award 107 00:08:00.779 --> 00:08:05.379 was a huge deal and I absolutely attribute it to spending that time removing the 108 00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:09.699 pain points. Then I think you take a look at the flip side of 109 00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:13.129 it, you say, all right, how do we make our experience just 110 00:08:13.370 --> 00:08:16.490 that much better? And one of the things that I love talking about is 111 00:08:16.529 --> 00:08:22.370 the word extraordinary, which really only means better than ordinary. It doesn't mean 112 00:08:22.889 --> 00:08:26.449 that you have to do something that is like sending the man to the Moon 113 00:08:26.569 --> 00:08:28.759 Right. It's it doesn't have to be crazy expensive, it doesn't have to 114 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.919 be outlandish, it just has to be a little bit better than ordinary. 115 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.279 And then an industry like credit cards, which is frankly pretty commoditized, there's 116 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.120 some great opportunities to do things that are a little bit better than ordinary. 117 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.830 A couple things that I think discovered did that were that or great examples of 118 00:08:45.950 --> 00:08:50.269 this. They have the only call center that is or they have multiple call 119 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:52.750 centers, but they're the only credit card company in the US that as a 120 00:08:52.789 --> 00:09:00.019 hundred percent US based service. So what they started doing was they asked every 121 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:03.019 agent, when they picked up the phone, to see tell the customer where 122 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.860 they were. So, hi, this is Dan from Chicago. How can 123 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:09.649 I help you? And what was absolutely unbelievable as if you listen to these 124 00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:13.129 calls, nine times out of ten the very first thing out of the mouth 125 00:09:13.169 --> 00:09:16.929 of the customer was something about the location that that person was sitting in. 126 00:09:18.009 --> 00:09:20.970 It was either Oh, I love Chicago, or how is the weather, 127 00:09:20.090 --> 00:09:24.879 or even as direct as Oh, thank goodness, I'm talking to somebody in 128 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:31.200 the United States. So it drew out and it created this immediate connection with 129 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.200 the customer. And for years they had had US service, they just never 130 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.360 did that extra thing to sort of make the customer aware of it. And 131 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.070 once they made that change, every conversation, you know, was sort of 132 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:46.629 forever altered. And so it's get rid of the pain points and then figure 133 00:09:46.629 --> 00:09:48.789 out the parts that you can go just a little bit above ordinary and that's 134 00:09:48.830 --> 00:09:52.899 when you really start to kind of get that ball rolling downhill and the momentum 135 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:58.259 going of a great experience. So good. I love your definition of extraordinary 136 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:03.740 and I separated those intentionally extraordinary set. But extra lost a little sum extra 137 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:07.250 and in this this idea of I mean in this case there's a real and 138 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:13.250 perceived value to having US based service, but even if that's not a point 139 00:10:13.289 --> 00:10:18.330 of contention for anyone listening, just the idea of opening the all with something 140 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:22.120 a little bit personal that you and I can talk about in this case, 141 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.039 geography is pretty easy to talk about. Whether it's the easiest is why we 142 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:28.799 often start there. But you know and ask questions like what do you do 143 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:33.360 for a living? But just opening the call with something that we can connect 144 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.509 on as people is just a great tip. Can you go one step deeper 145 00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:37.990 on one of those things, though? So pain points, I think the 146 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:41.549 first thing that comes to mind. Do things come to mind, but I'm 147 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:45.389 sure you, with your depth of experience, will offer maybe one more or 148 00:10:45.509 --> 00:10:50.139 add some color to what I'm about. is to suggest one is have one 149 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:52.419 or more people, multiple people on the team, go through the process to 150 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:58.100 find out where the pain is, because we created this process or this website 151 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:03.299 or this function or whatever months or even years ago and no one's been back 152 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:05.929 since right, so it hasn't been reviewed since it's been created or defined, 153 00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:11.289 and so send people through it on some consistent cadence and identify pain points that 154 00:11:11.409 --> 00:11:15.090 way. Another way, of course, would be some level of customer feedback, 155 00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:18.399 but I wonder if they if customer feedback gets specific enough. I guess 156 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.639 you would find emergent themes about really big pain points. But just go one 157 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:28.679 step deeper for folks listening to get practical about how to identify pain points. 158 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.230 Yeah, that's a great question and both of your answers are correct. You 159 00:11:33.350 --> 00:11:37.990 have to sort of do them in combination. So I found when I first 160 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:41.629 I was at discover almost ten years and when I first got there it was 161 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:43.669 suggested to me that I sign up for an employee card. And I said 162 00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:46.179 why do I want an employee card? And they said, well, you 163 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:48.500 know, you get this benefit, you get this benefit and then when you 164 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.820 call customer service, they know that you're an employee. I don't want them 165 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:54.659 to know on them I'm an employee. That's exactly what I don't want right 166 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:58.379 because I don't want to be treated differently from a regular customer. And so 167 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:03.850 I declined to the employee card. And I always thought that executives at any 168 00:12:03.929 --> 00:12:09.450 company should be customers of their company and they should be regular old customers. 169 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:13.610 You don't want the you know, the Red Siren alarm to go off when 170 00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:16.879 the CEO calls into the call center. You want that person to be treated 171 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.360 just like everybody else so that they can hear it and feel it and experience 172 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.279 it. So I always recommend that you become a customer of your own products. 173 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.120 Sometimes that's harder than other times. When I worked at human I wasn't 174 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.549 eligible for Medicare advantage, so I couldn't really sign up for it. But 175 00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:35.389 you know, signing up for a dental plan or doing something, trying to 176 00:12:35.549 --> 00:12:39.429 sign up, at least going through the processes, is really important. And 177 00:12:39.549 --> 00:12:43.700 then you mentioned voice of the customer, which is also critical and there are 178 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:48.299 definite ways where you can capture that. I'll tell you a story that I 179 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:54.139 thought was really instructive. Again, back at discover. So I'm discovers website 180 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:58.730 and every page they used a survey mechanism and there's a bunch of amount there. 181 00:12:58.769 --> 00:13:03.529 They happen to use one called opinion lab and at basically at the bottom 182 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:07.330 of every page, unobtrusive, it's not a pop up. They're just just 183 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:11.129 like a little icon that you can leave your comment about that page and when 184 00:13:11.169 --> 00:13:16.840 you click on the icon, it asks you a couple of quick multiple choice 185 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.279 questions and then it gives you a place for feedback. Now I got to 186 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.440 report every day on the feedback that we got and we got hundreds of pieces 187 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:26.669 of feedback every day. That's what happens to you have fifty million logins a 188 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:31.110 month. Right, you get lots of feedback and you're right. Sometimes the 189 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:35.629 big issues would just pop out and you could eat, you'd get you'd see 190 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:39.190 it ten times in one day and you'd identify, you know, it as 191 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:43.059 a problem. But more often there were a little thing simmering under the surface 192 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:48.059 that, if you weren't putting together those daily reports and sort of tracking some 193 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:50.539 trends, it was really tough to find it. So one of the things 194 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:54.220 we did is we asked a question in the multiple choice section. We asked 195 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:56.970 a question that came directly from the Forester Customer Experience Index, which was how 196 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:01.690 easy was it to do business with us today, on a scale of one 197 00:14:01.809 --> 00:14:07.529 to ten? And I then asked for a report that had never been generated 198 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:11.879 before. I said I want to see a list of every page in reverse 199 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.480 order of the answer to that question. I want to see the pages that 200 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:20.440 people say are the most difficult and then I want to explore the comments associated 201 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.750 with those pages. Now, the page that rose to the very top, 202 00:14:24.950 --> 00:14:28.990 the most difficult page on the on the site according to our customers, was 203 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.909 actually a super important page for us. It was the refer a friend page. 204 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:35.549 It was, you know, introduced someone to discover and will give you 205 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:37.659 fifty dollars. Like, man, what's wrong with this page? I went 206 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:41.539 and looked at it, I didn't see anything wrong. So we dig into 207 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:46.580 the comments and it turned out that for one specific browser, to submit button 208 00:14:46.899 --> 00:14:50.100 was not showing up. So people were filling out their names and their email 209 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:52.610 addresses of their friends and then they were stuck, and this was obviously annoying. 210 00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:58.769 We fix that overnight and sure enough, the next day those scores on 211 00:14:58.889 --> 00:15:01.970 ease of use popped right back up, and that's what sort of gave me 212 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:07.049 this idea of let's go find the next hundred things that are wrong and just 213 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.600 six all of those, because they're not hard, but you do have to 214 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.320 discover them, and so that no pun intended. So I think it is 215 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:18.399 about having you have to have the right system in place to capture the feedback 216 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.950 and then you have to have you've got to be able to go beyond reporting, 217 00:15:22.029 --> 00:15:24.909 and one of the things I find that is is a big mistake is 218 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.110 you ask companies with you listen to the voice of the customer. Oh Yeah, 219 00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:31.470 I get this report every day. Well, a report doesn't fix anything 220 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.940 right and and I can tell you from sitting in the chair. When I 221 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:39.700 get a daily report number one most days of the week I don't even have 222 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:41.779 time to read it. So I start they start stacking up and then when 223 00:15:41.779 --> 00:15:45.539 you have ten of them, there's no way you're reading ten of these reports. 224 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:48.700 So you it's not effective just to be sending out a daily report to 225 00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:52.570 people because nothing gets done. You have to get it that step forward, 226 00:15:52.730 --> 00:15:58.330 that that next step where it says, okay, we've got to identify these 227 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:02.129 issues and then have the ability to fix it. And again, that second 228 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:04.639 piece was critical as I had to figure out a way to get past the 229 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:10.679 big queue and in the in technology and and actually have somebody be willing to 230 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.080 go fix these things. And it turned out that that was a great project 231 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:19.429 and very successful. I love that story and I recognize the pain in having 232 00:16:19.470 --> 00:16:25.549 all this really valuable information but not being quite sure how to harness the resources 233 00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:29.909 internally. And I think this gets to the big challenge of customer experience in 234 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:33.220 side organizations and breaking down the siles which, you is this kind of objective 235 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:37.379 third party that comes in, you know, to assess and diagnose and discover 236 00:16:37.700 --> 00:16:41.259 and, you know, prescribe and things like that. Can't do on your 237 00:16:41.259 --> 00:16:45.259 own. So you said earlier, like I'm I can't break down the silos 238 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.370 just too much. It's a different thing and it's even hard for people internally 239 00:16:48.450 --> 00:16:52.570 to do. It's you know, if this is something produced throughout, throughout 240 00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:56.250 and across the entire organization, how can we work with in these siles to 241 00:16:56.289 --> 00:16:59.809 get it done? And just you know, the idea that you had to 242 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:03.240 take someone out of an existing role speaks to the way that we're not really 243 00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:07.440 structured to get a lot of this important work done and we need to figure 244 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.440 that out. I want to go to social media. Just in the title 245 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:17.990 of Your Book You're obviously blending social and customer experience. Obviously social is inherent 246 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.230 in some ways to the customer experience, but can you speak to your view 247 00:17:22.309 --> 00:17:26.109 of like how are those two integrated? What is we're is social fit into 248 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:33.140 this picture? So I actually believe that the advent of social media is why 249 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:40.140 we're talking about customer experience so much today, because social media gave stomers a 250 00:17:40.220 --> 00:17:45.170 voice that they never had before and shockingly, they use that voice right and 251 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:51.250 so thus we're now all focused on listening to that customer and trying to respond. 252 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:53.849 I look at it as sort of a circular relationship. So I'm a 253 00:17:53.930 --> 00:17:57.130 believer that, again, with the advent of social media, there's no longer 254 00:17:57.170 --> 00:18:02.759 such a thing as an offline experience. Just ask a certain airline that got 255 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:06.519 caught dragging a guy off a plane and you know, you realize that, 256 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:07.640 man, it used to be that when we were on a plane, that 257 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:12.269 was like the ultimate offline experience, and now even that isn't offline anymore, 258 00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:18.710 and so everything can come online and therefore we as companies, even we as 259 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:22.950 social media teams, have to be we have to know enough to be dangerous, 260 00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:26.299 but every part of the experience, because any part fails and you're probably 261 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:30.660 going to find out about it on social media. In several of my jobs 262 00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:34.700 I have found out that the website was down from twitter, you know, 263 00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:38.900 before even the internal technology people know. It's like your customers are going to 264 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:42.690 tell you the flip side. Then the other part of the circle is that 265 00:18:44.089 --> 00:18:48.329 how we respond to people talking to us on social media feeds right back into 266 00:18:48.369 --> 00:18:53.170 that experience. So if we are responsive and empathetic and we can resolve problems, 267 00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:57.759 we can often turn to tractors into advocates, and I've seen that happen 268 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.400 tons of times. You start with an angry customer who really doesn't expect you 269 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.200 to solve their problem, they just want to vent and then all the sudden 270 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:08.440 their problem is solved and they love you. The opposite is true too, 271 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.750 is that if you have a customer, either an angry customer or, frankly, 272 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:15.990 a very happy customer, who reaches out to you and you ignore them, 273 00:19:15.829 --> 00:19:19.990 now you've changed their opinion of you and that feeds back into their overall 274 00:19:21.029 --> 00:19:25.779 experience. So to me, social I got into it as a marketer. 275 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:30.380 The first thing I realized about it was, I don't think this is another 276 00:19:30.579 --> 00:19:33.900 broadcast channel, which is what brands did when it first came out. I 277 00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:37.569 mean, I remember being in conversations. How about we put our TV commercial 278 00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:41.009 on facebook? It's like what? Wait a minute, I fast forward to 279 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:44.769 the TV commercial on my television. Why do you think I want to see 280 00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:47.130 it on facebook? That's not what I want to see. But that's what 281 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:49.410 people immediately thought, that you know, hey, this is a free channel 282 00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:53.400 where we can broadcast our message to the to the masses, and instead, 283 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:59.240 I think what happened is it became the first marketing channel where customers could talk 284 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:04.319 back, and that changed everything because they did talk back and they gave feedback 285 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:07.950 and they said stop with these commercials, we don't want to see these, 286 00:20:07.069 --> 00:20:12.430 or they when you interrupted their facebook feed, it reminded them that they had 287 00:20:12.470 --> 00:20:15.829 been meaning to call you about some completely different issue, and so then they 288 00:20:15.869 --> 00:20:18.710 type in their their problem, even though it has nothing to do at the 289 00:20:18.710 --> 00:20:22.779 marketing piece you just put in front of them. So it changed everything and 290 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:27.299 that's why I've loved to keep I love social media anyway, but I love 291 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:33.579 the interaction of social and customer experience because I think they are really sort of 292 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.569 two sides to the same coin, if you will. Yeah, it was 293 00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.250 super important in my career. I was in broadcast television. I ran marketing 294 00:20:41.289 --> 00:20:45.250 teams inside local TV stations and so you need occasionally do the events like a 295 00:20:45.410 --> 00:20:49.160 parade. You know, there's very little customer interaction. You're just like high 296 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.599 people over there on the curb and you go to like festivals and events where 297 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.960 you would maybe talk to people, but there's so little customer feedback except for 298 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.839 research, which is all anonymized and lumped together. And so I remember I 299 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.430 was still in television when social was on the come up in this idea of 300 00:21:04.109 --> 00:21:07.789 people, a being able to talk about whatever you're talking about and then be 301 00:21:08.069 --> 00:21:11.589 talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about, 302 00:21:11.589 --> 00:21:15.869 but you still need to find the right home to participate with it. So 303 00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:22.420 obviously the rise of social changed all of this and and I agree with you 304 00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:25.460 that that yeah, this does look like a marketing channel. Know, actually 305 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:29.059 this looks like something a lot more and a lot more important. But let's 306 00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:30.660 get a little bit more nuanced. How have you seen that kind of change, 307 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:34.369 maybe maybe over the past five years or so? Like what what are 308 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:38.329 some of the changes that you're seeing happening in social for better, for worse, 309 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:42.730 for neither that that has an impact on maybe the way companies are engaging 310 00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:48.799 with customers. Well, I think the biggest change has been that social media 311 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:53.559 as a service channel started off as the cusp, as the channel of last 312 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.200 resort. So I had already called and was put on hold for an hour, 313 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:02.829 or I emailed and they didn't respond, or my chat session took forever, 314 00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:07.509 whatever, and I'm already be really frustrated because some other customer service channel 315 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:10.990 has failed me. So now I'm going to go to social but I think 316 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:15.940 what's happened over time is that people realized that engaging with brands on social is 317 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:22.579 actually quite pleasant and it's fast, it's it there is no hold time like 318 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:25.059 there is, you know, when you're sitting on the phone, because you 319 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:27.819 can tweet and go about your day and and come back and see the response, 320 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:33.130 you know, whenever it's convenient for you. And as companies sort of 321 00:22:33.329 --> 00:22:37.490 quickly funded and resource social media, what happened is they put some really good 322 00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:41.569 service agents on this channel and people started figuring out, man, I can 323 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:47.279 get my problem resolved really well on this channel. I'll tell you that I 324 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.279 go to social always first. Now it's my channel, a first resort, 325 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:55.799 and I think that's really the trend that has happened and it's because, for 326 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.710 me anyway, it's the most convenient, fastest, most pleasant service channel that 327 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:04.670 there is out there. I think the other thing that has happened and the 328 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:11.470 other trend that we're seeing happening right now is actually this move to from what 329 00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:15.380 I'll call public social to private social, which is to sort of these messaging 330 00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:18.980 APPs and facebook messenger and twitter DM and we chat and all these things, 331 00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:25.420 and this is a really nice trend. For both customers and companies. Companies, 332 00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:30.650 of course love it because the complainers are now taking their complaints off line, 333 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:32.970 so to speak, you know, out of the public's feed year. 334 00:23:33.089 --> 00:23:37.809 So it's so the PR people can relax a little bit and companies don't have 335 00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:41.680 to be so afraid of complaints. Customers like it because, again, it's 336 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:47.000 a very fast, convenient channel. The entire history is there, so you 337 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.000 know you've don't you find yourself not having to repeat your problem or even repeat 338 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:53.720 your loyalty number or whatever it is, your identifier, because it all you 339 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.670 got to do scroll up and you shared it a while ago and so you 340 00:23:56.789 --> 00:24:03.269 can just continue the conversation. I've had an ongoing conversation with American Airlines for, 341 00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:06.069 you know, a year or two now, where it's like every time 342 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:07.750 I have a question or I've got an issue or I want them to look 343 00:24:07.990 --> 00:24:11.059 something up for me, I just go back and they know me and they 344 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.259 and it's so easy, way better than calling or anything like that. So 345 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:19.579 I do think that's a nice trend again for both parties, and that's probably 346 00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:25.250 the second thing that has that has happened, I think again, the third 347 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:29.049 thing is the one that hasn't quite happened yet, but that I'm pushing for 348 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:33.650 and that I really hope happens is this move towards positivity and and this the 349 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.490 ability to change the sentiment by, as we used to say at McDonald's, 350 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:41.039 creating more lovers than haters or making the lovers louder than the haters and, 351 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.799 of course, by, you know, by creating experience is that people want 352 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.559 to share positively with, with friends and family and followers and sort of drowning 353 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:55.390 out some of the unfortunate hatred and trolls and other stuff that is out in 354 00:24:55.509 --> 00:24:59.990 social that is, you know, still kind of the the dark underbelly of 355 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:04.789 the channel. Today's growth story centers around exactly, a SASS company that helps 356 00:25:04.829 --> 00:25:11.099 enterprise companies with their incentive compensation. They'd work with search marketing agencies in the 357 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:15.779 past, but they'd had issues with transparency and Roy. They wanted to improve 358 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:21.420 net new leads via their organic and paid search channels, so they reached out 359 00:25:21.529 --> 00:25:26.609 to directive. Optimizing search engine market share for exactly was the top priority. 360 00:25:26.009 --> 00:25:32.170 Directed did this by improving search engine visibility for target audiences at the bottom of 361 00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:37.160 the funnel in order to generate qualified leads. They focused on value driven content 362 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:42.279 on relevant, winnable terms, landing page testing on PPC platforms and a laser 363 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:49.910 focus on third party directory optimization. Specifically, Cap Tera directive grew sales accepted 364 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:56.829 lead volume by one hundred percent, increased Cap Tera conversion volume by three hundred 365 00:25:56.829 --> 00:26:02.509 and thirty six percent and boosted pre qualified clicks to Cap Tera by thirty nine 366 00:26:02.630 --> 00:26:06.339 percent. If you're looking for results like this with your search engine marketing, 367 00:26:06.740 --> 00:26:11.019 there's a good chance directive can help. Visit Directive consultingcom and get a free 368 00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:18.420 customized proposal. All right, let's get back to the show. So many 369 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:23.930 good pieces in there. I want to get practical for people and companies smaller 370 00:26:25.049 --> 00:26:29.849 than the ones you've you've built value into through your engagement there. You know, 371 00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:33.319 in a smaller organization, social is often kind of tossed off over there 372 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.960 to that individual. If you're lucky it's a team, it's easily siload like. 373 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:42.119 How do we integrate it back in for specifically, you know, for 374 00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:48.109 us, social and social engagement, even in a support type scenario, was 375 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:51.950 all driven out of marketing. You know, it was me and then it 376 00:26:52.109 --> 00:26:53.750 was this Gal that I hired and we would do it together and then we 377 00:26:53.829 --> 00:26:59.430 put someone on social full time and now it's her, but she takes vacation 378 00:26:59.710 --> 00:27:03.779 and, like most humans, get sick from time to time and sort trying 379 00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:07.339 to figure out how to rope customer service and customer success in there so people 380 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:12.859 can get more timely responses. I guess I've a bunch of questions. I'll 381 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:17.650 save that. I'll save the one that there just occurred to me for to 382 00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:19.930 get your actually when a team is much smaller. To you any tips or 383 00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:25.410 recommendations around that, like how do we how do we integrate social like how 384 00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:29.609 do we elevate it out if we're in a company smaller than a human out 385 00:27:29.609 --> 00:27:33.039 or a discover or McDonald's? Yeah, it's a great question and it's interesting 386 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:38.400 because small companies present different problems than big companies. You know, the big 387 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:44.470 company problem, certainly McDonald's, was there were more than a million mentions every 388 00:27:44.509 --> 00:27:47.670 single day. How do you handle how do you hire enough people to handle 389 00:27:47.789 --> 00:27:49.990 that? Right now, for a small company, even ten or twenty mentions 390 00:27:51.029 --> 00:27:52.950 a day. Maybe that same question of like how do we handle this, 391 00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:56.829 because your social media person probably has a lot of other things on his her 392 00:27:56.869 --> 00:28:00.460 plate. and maybe is also your email person or your you know or your 393 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:04.140 website person, so they're doing multiple things. I think the first thing to 394 00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:10.619 keep in mind is that it is still critical that you communicate with your customers, 395 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:12.329 especially when they want to communicate with you. I mean, I always 396 00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:15.490 asked and I have worked in small companies as well, and I think the 397 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:18.730 thing that we have to remind ourselves is without customers, we don't have a 398 00:28:18.809 --> 00:28:23.529 business. So there is nothing more important than communicating, than talking with our 399 00:28:23.529 --> 00:28:26.359 customers, especially when they want to talk with us. So, in terms 400 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.039 of prioritizing work, I would tell the cup I would tell the social media 401 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.799 person forget about your next facebook campaign and answer that customers question, because that's 402 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:38.640 more important. Right. That's I think that's one piece. The second thing 403 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:45.269 is is that it's really important just to set expectations for your customers, because 404 00:28:45.630 --> 00:28:52.509 people are generally very accepting of smaller companies and understanding that they're not two seven 405 00:28:52.789 --> 00:28:56.299 like an airline or like a hotel chain, right, but you do have 406 00:28:56.420 --> 00:28:59.859 to come out in front of it and on your profile page is say hey, 407 00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:02.579 we're here to service you from nine hundred and twenty five or whatever, 408 00:29:02.660 --> 00:29:04.019 and if you if it's after five, will get back to you first thing 409 00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:08.700 in the morning, and people totally understand that. It's when you you sort 410 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:14.410 of either don't set expectations or set the wrong expectations. You know, for 411 00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:18.329 example, if I tweet you at two o'clock in the morning and you've got 412 00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:21.049 somebody answering, then the next time I tweeted two o'clock in the morning, 413 00:29:21.049 --> 00:29:23.680 I'm assuming somebody's answering right, and so you almost want to not do that 414 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:29.079 and wait until my aim and now you've set the expectation with me that you're 415 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.480 going to get back to me in business hours, and so it's absolutely fine. 416 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:34.440 I often get asked, like you do, we have to be two 417 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:37.990 seven, and for most business is the answer show. I mean, obviously, 418 00:29:38.029 --> 00:29:42.190 if you're an international airline and people are flying seven and are having problems, 419 00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:45.349 yeah, you got to be there, but for a lot for most 420 00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:48.990 companies, that's not the case. The other question I get asked all the 421 00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.710 time is will. What channels do I do we have to be in, 422 00:29:52.299 --> 00:29:56.220 and my answer is, I'm going to tell you ahead of time. Is 423 00:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.980 Somewhat disappointing. It is wherever your customers are, and so when I was 424 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:07.210 working on a Medicare advantage product at aimed at seniors, we weren't on snapchat 425 00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:10.450 because that's not where seniors are, but we sure as heck we're on facebook 426 00:30:10.690 --> 00:30:15.289 right and so your business may be very highly focused on snapcheck is. That 427 00:30:15.329 --> 00:30:18.210 might be where your customers are, in which case you've got to be there 428 00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:21.170 and if not that, don't worry about not being there. There is a 429 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:23.279 lot of companies, big and small, make the mistake of feeling like they 430 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:26.920 have to be everywhere, and then all that does is stretch your one person 431 00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.519 too thin, and so I would say focus on where your customers are, 432 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:37.349 the one or two channels, and set expectations and remember that not only are 433 00:30:37.390 --> 00:30:41.549 we nothing without our customers, but it is a whole lot easier to keep 434 00:30:41.549 --> 00:30:45.670 an existing customer than it is to acquire a new one. And yet when 435 00:30:45.670 --> 00:30:52.539 you look at the dollars spent and the focus given to sales and acquisition and 436 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:59.259 marketing, verse is Customer Success and Customer Service and retention in almost any size 437 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:03.339 business, it's way off. And so I think that's the other piece of 438 00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:07.529 advice I would give is that this term customers success. I have some skepticism 439 00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:11.250 about because I've been in a customer success role and to me it felt a 440 00:31:11.289 --> 00:31:17.609 little more like inside sales and it did really making my customers successful. But 441 00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:22.720 I do think that that is a critical role because when your customers are successful, 442 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.440 then you don't have to sell as much because they're going to renew and 443 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.279 they're going to stay and they're going to be loyal to yeah, really good 444 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:32.720 stuff there. And you tackle the other question I had, which was about 445 00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:36.589 it was really about expectations. That wasn't the language I was going to use, 446 00:31:36.630 --> 00:31:38.750 but you know your customers, when they reach out through these, let's 447 00:31:38.750 --> 00:31:41.190 just call them, even though it's ridiculous to do so, in two thousand 448 00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:45.910 and nineteen alternative channels, alternative to email, chat, phone, that they 449 00:31:47.029 --> 00:31:49.460 have an expectation, but you have the opportunity to manage it and set it 450 00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:53.140 in as long as you're clear and explicit. You know what they can expect 451 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.859 in this channel. Then this idea of being on seven it wasn't for me. 452 00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:00.660 It was like, what is the urgency of response, because earlier talked 453 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.369 about this asynchronicity where you, as a customer, contweet and then you know 454 00:32:04.369 --> 00:32:07.410 a while later you check in and there's your response or your answer. Like 455 00:32:07.809 --> 00:32:09.490 you know, how urgent does it need to be? So that was awesome. 456 00:32:09.490 --> 00:32:13.769 That's really, really good practical stuff. Let's talk about your podcast a 457 00:32:13.849 --> 00:32:16.839 little bit. You also have a customer experience based podcast. It's called experience 458 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:21.039 this. It's a very fun format. It is not I run a very 459 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.240 traditional format right. Bring on really smart people and ask them questions that either 460 00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:29.200 a I need to want the answers to or be I think the listeners would 461 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.869 really enjoy and really evoke the seam and build this ongoing conversation. You have 462 00:32:32.990 --> 00:32:37.470 something that's a little bit more timely, topical, back and forth. You 463 00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:39.710 do it with Joey Coleman, who wrote his book on the top of you 464 00:32:40.029 --> 00:32:45.140 concluded that that last response with talk about what you're trying to do with experience 465 00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:51.339 this. Yeah, so we are about to enter our fourth season of experience 466 00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:55.579 this and it has been a ton of fun to do and I hope and 467 00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:59.849 I think that that comes out in the product. Is that Joey and I 468 00:33:00.009 --> 00:33:04.250 really have a lot of fun doing the show and we looked at the whole 469 00:33:04.490 --> 00:33:08.730 show top to bottom and said we want to do something different. If we're 470 00:33:08.730 --> 00:33:15.440 going to talk about creating remarkable experiences, we need to create an experience for 471 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.920 our listeners. We need to do something that is extraordinary, that's a little 472 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.799 bit better than ordinary or or just different from ordinary. And I actually, 473 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.599 previous to experience this, did host another podcast that was an interview show, 474 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:30.190 and so I love I love listening to interviews the smart people and learning from 475 00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:34.069 them as well. So it's not that there's a knock on that format, 476 00:33:34.109 --> 00:33:38.109 it's just simply that we wanted to intentionally do something different. So but we 477 00:33:38.190 --> 00:33:45.180 landed on was essentially a roughly twenty five to thirty minute episode that's broken into 478 00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:50.779 three different segments, and I like to compare it to, if you remember 479 00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.099 the price is right game show, you know they have like fifteen different games, 480 00:33:54.259 --> 00:33:58.490 but they only play five or six games in every episode and so you 481 00:33:58.569 --> 00:34:00.369 never even quite know what game you're going to get. And that's exactly what 482 00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:04.690 we do. So we have about ten different segment types, but we only 483 00:34:04.730 --> 00:34:07.010 use three in every episode and so you don't even know which of the ten 484 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:12.920 you're going to get. So every episode feels different. It's not there's not 485 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:15.960 a sort of if you can't fall asleep at the wheel, because the next 486 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:21.559 episode is going to be something really different. Two shorter format segments also of 487 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:24.590 like seven, eight, maybe ten minutes, allow for just sort of a 488 00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:31.190 quicker discussion that's that's really lively, really interesting, really doesn't lull at all 489 00:34:31.309 --> 00:34:35.389 because you sort of getting to the point and then we move on and we 490 00:34:35.949 --> 00:34:39.940 capture takeaway so that we it's really important to us that there's a that there's 491 00:34:39.940 --> 00:34:45.139 a concrete takeaway from every story that we tell that is practical. The people 492 00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:47.260 can kind of go back to work and be like, Hey, I heard 493 00:34:47.300 --> 00:34:51.659 this great story and here's how it would affect our business. And I've said 494 00:34:51.699 --> 00:34:53.170 the word story now a couple times too. I think we also try to 495 00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:58.769 focus on storytelling. I think the best way to get people interested in customer 496 00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:02.130 experience or enthused about doing something at their own business is just to tell them 497 00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:08.239 stories that are memorable that are practical. I personally try to stay away from 498 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:15.880 stories that are might be amazing but are so outlandish that any that typical company 499 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.400 couldn't possibly do it right. It's like, I mean, most companies aren't 500 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.630 going to spend half a million dollars on, you know, one customer and, 501 00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:24.670 you know, just to get the PR value out of it right. 502 00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:29.789 So we really try to focus on stories that are practical and one of my 503 00:35:29.909 --> 00:35:32.230 favorite parts about the show is that a lot of the stories now are coming 504 00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:36.059 from our listeners. So their call there. You know, we have this 505 00:35:36.139 --> 00:35:39.019 ability. We have like a digital voicemail kind of thing where you can leave 506 00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:44.380 a recording of a story, that of your own experience, and so then 507 00:35:44.380 --> 00:35:46.820 we bring on these other voices, not as an interview but as just sort 508 00:35:46.820 --> 00:35:51.130 of a snippet where we have sally tell her story for two minutes and then 509 00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:53.889 joy and I kind of riff on it and come up with the takeaway. 510 00:35:53.969 --> 00:36:00.050 So it's definitely fun and we've had a blast doing it and and we're going 511 00:36:00.050 --> 00:36:02.889 to keep doing it as long as people want to listen to it. Well, 512 00:36:04.010 --> 00:36:07.880 the way you opened it absolutely does come through. It's just it's got 513 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:13.239 a contagious effect and so I love that customers are interacting or listeners, customers 514 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.480 are listening and participating with it directly. It's great and I'm excited that. 515 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:21.710 You talk about the season approach just really quickly. What's the approach from a 516 00:36:21.789 --> 00:36:23.630 season by is just you guys have commitments and you're like, okay, we 517 00:36:23.710 --> 00:36:29.550 need some periodic breaks to to breathe and round up some new stuff and take 518 00:36:29.630 --> 00:36:32.219 care of other things. Or Yeah, I think that's definitely part of it. 519 00:36:32.380 --> 00:36:37.179 I think the other part is that we've gotten used to as consumers. 520 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:39.940 We've gotten used to sort of binging on seasons of content, whether it's on 521 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:45.019 Netflix or Amazon, brime or whatever it is. Our first season was forty 522 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:49.889 episodes long and it was a bear us to do every week for forty weeks 523 00:36:49.929 --> 00:36:52.449 and I think we found just personally the towards the end of that we were 524 00:36:52.449 --> 00:36:57.369 getting exhausted and we didn't want that to come out in the show. I 525 00:36:57.449 --> 00:37:00.170 still think the content was great, but it was just a struggle for us 526 00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:04.039 to get geared up for it. So we took a little break and then 527 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.880 we moved to sixteen episode seasons, which actually, although it wasn't intentional, 528 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.639 we kind of follow the school year. So we go from January to May 529 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.519 and then we take the summer off and then we come back in September and 530 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:19.269 we go through December. You know, take out maybe a week or two 531 00:37:19.269 --> 00:37:22.710 off for winter break and come right back in January and go through may again. 532 00:37:22.150 --> 00:37:25.150 So right now we're on hiatus over the summer and it's great. It's 533 00:37:25.309 --> 00:37:29.469 it's we could focus on our own things, we can do something else, 534 00:37:29.510 --> 00:37:31.059 we can collect stories so that when we come back in the fall we got 535 00:37:31.099 --> 00:37:36.340 a nice backlog of fun stories to talk about, and so far that's worked 536 00:37:36.340 --> 00:37:39.539 really well in sixteen episodes seems to be. I'm not exactly sure how we 537 00:37:39.579 --> 00:37:42.739 came up with sixteen. I think it was more of a calendar thing, 538 00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.969 you know, four months. It just worked pretty well for us, so 539 00:37:45.050 --> 00:37:49.929 we're going to keep doing it. Awesome again. It's called experience this with 540 00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:54.289 an exclamation point. Even the exclamation point comes through in the listen and the 541 00:37:54.369 --> 00:38:00.239 four seasons coming soon, I noticed. Obviously I like to read a read 542 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.199 about guests. When I can. I try to read some of their blog 543 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.440 posts or read books or listen to the episodes. I'd been listening to experience 544 00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:08.760 this prior to reaching out to you to come on this show. Anyway. 545 00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:15.710 Thank you. Thank you for doing it and I'm glad you're finding the regal 546 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.510 of a nation. You need to get back at it again because it's a 547 00:38:17.590 --> 00:38:21.309 it's a pleasure to listen to, but one of the things I notice is 548 00:38:21.349 --> 00:38:25.510 that you have a background in a couple of prestigious schools. You did communication 549 00:38:25.630 --> 00:38:30.739 and psychology at pain which are the two subjects I studied most at the University 550 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:34.380 of Michigan, and you did your MBA and northwestern's colog school of Management, 551 00:38:34.420 --> 00:38:37.340 one of the best in the world. Before we get into maybe the value 552 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:42.369 of that experience, talk about the perceived value of that experience. I feel 553 00:38:42.369 --> 00:38:46.449 like a higher education, formal education are a little bit under attack and part 554 00:38:46.530 --> 00:38:50.849 by this hustle culture that's like, who needs that? You just need to 555 00:38:50.929 --> 00:38:52.489 get out there and get it done and and all that. And then, 556 00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:55.880 and then also, of course, the more practical consideration of you know, 557 00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.280 the fact that the cost of it is rapidly outpacing you know, the cost 558 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:05.760 of inflation, etcetera. Talk about your thoughts at a very high level about 559 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.639 formal education. Yeah, it's a great question. I'll tell you I've been 560 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:13.070 interviewed on a lot of podcasts and I've never been asked that. So this 561 00:39:13.349 --> 00:39:16.150 is a an answer that has never been heard before. So I love the 562 00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:20.309 question. First of all, I would say, and I think a lot 563 00:39:20.349 --> 00:39:22.590 of people would say, I probably couldn't get into pend today it's so much 564 00:39:22.630 --> 00:39:29.179 more competitive even than when I was there. But I ended up going to 565 00:39:29.380 --> 00:39:32.980 pain really because, first of all they let me in. But as I 566 00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:37.300 was looking at schools, I stepped on the campus and it was just one 567 00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:39.090 of those moments where I was like this is where I belong, I love 568 00:39:39.170 --> 00:39:44.329 this place. I visited lots of college campuses. They're all beautiful. There 569 00:39:44.369 --> 00:39:46.250 wasn't really any that I hated, but I just stepped on that campus and 570 00:39:46.289 --> 00:39:50.650 I loved Philly and I was like this is where I got to go and 571 00:39:50.809 --> 00:39:54.920 it was an amazing experience for me. I spent my biggest extracurricular was the 572 00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:00.239 newspaper, and so I really got into journalism and knowing that it wasn't something 573 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.559 I wanted to do for a career, but honestly, the skills that I 574 00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:07.710 developed as a writer and an editor have have really helped me through my career 575 00:40:07.989 --> 00:40:14.389 in its entirety. People still know today that if they've got a spelling your 576 00:40:14.429 --> 00:40:16.550 grammar air and a word documentary power point, I'm the one that's going to 577 00:40:16.590 --> 00:40:20.190 find it, just because it's going to pop off the page and punch me 578 00:40:20.269 --> 00:40:24.019 in the face, whereas other people will will will skip it. Funny Story 579 00:40:24.099 --> 00:40:28.500 by the way. I actually had a vendor come to present to me at 580 00:40:28.579 --> 00:40:31.619 discover and they spelled discover wrong on the cover page of their presentation and you 581 00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:35.969 could probably bet that I wasn't really giving them the benefit of the doubt for 582 00:40:36.170 --> 00:40:39.570 the rest of the presentation. And I think call log was an awesome experience 583 00:40:39.650 --> 00:40:44.570 as well, and I do think that there is a lot of value in 584 00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:50.199 an MBA and the sense of it just rounding out the other areas of business 585 00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.079 that maybe you're not as comfortable on. All right, so I came into 586 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:59.199 Kelloga and left Kellog as a marketer but being exposed to finance and Statistics and 587 00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:01.760 economics and some of these other things that you know, marketers often get a 588 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:05.710 bad rap there. You know, it's the it's the soft skill and they 589 00:41:05.750 --> 00:41:07.989 don't really get understand numbers and all that thing, and it's so I really 590 00:41:08.030 --> 00:41:14.590 enjoy kind of learning some of that other stuff and I ronically the the required 591 00:41:14.630 --> 00:41:16.269 classes that I had to take in my first year. There were eleven of 592 00:41:16.349 --> 00:41:20.820 them, and the one that I waited to take last because I was absolutely 593 00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:25.380 convinced I was going to hate, was operations and I took operations and I 594 00:41:25.780 --> 00:41:30.139 loved it and it actually turned out to be my second major behind marketing at 595 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:35.090 calog because I thought it was so fascinating, and I do credit that to 596 00:41:35.250 --> 00:41:38.250 sort of my interest in customer service and customer experience was taking some of those 597 00:41:38.289 --> 00:41:44.090 operations classes. That just never would have, I think, crossed my mind. 598 00:41:44.130 --> 00:41:47.239 I would say, however, that what you said is true, that 599 00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:53.320 I think the value of the quality of the school that you went to is 600 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:58.760 not as high as it used to be and I think that Mbas have become 601 00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:01.750 arguably what law degrees became a few, you know, a couple decades earlier. 602 00:42:01.789 --> 00:42:06.110 They sort of become a diamond dozen that every everybody has an MBA now, 603 00:42:06.510 --> 00:42:08.909 and I don't that could be frustrating to me. I don't think it 604 00:42:09.030 --> 00:42:13.789 really is, you know, because I think that the education is still important 605 00:42:13.869 --> 00:42:16.940 and it's and whether you got it at Kellogg or you got it at at 606 00:42:17.059 --> 00:42:21.380 some school I've never heard of, I don't think is that critical. I'm 607 00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:24.860 obviously proud of where I went, but I do think that as I've as 608 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:29.940 I've progressed in my career, where I went to school has become less and 609 00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:32.650 less important and it's funny my dad said to me when I graduated college, 610 00:42:32.690 --> 00:42:37.730 you said the first job you get they're going to ask for your GPA in 611 00:42:37.809 --> 00:42:39.969 college and then nobody else is ever going to care. And he is right. 612 00:42:40.530 --> 00:42:45.679 Nobody's ever asked me since then my GPA Paen, and nobody, including 613 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:49.000 my first job after business school, ever asked for my GPA a Kellox. 614 00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:52.599 So it really doesn't matter. You know the details behind it don't really matter. 615 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:57.000 I passed in both cases. I graduated, but I do think that 616 00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.710 the education part does matter. It helps you to be more well rounded, 617 00:43:01.230 --> 00:43:05.349 it helps you to be a generalist in whatever role that you're in and it 618 00:43:05.469 --> 00:43:09.389 helps you to really understand, especially when you're having debates with your colleagues or 619 00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:13.900 you're having big meetings with lots of differing opinions. It allows you to be 620 00:43:14.019 --> 00:43:17.820 more open minded to, you know, other people's perspectives. Yeah, really 621 00:43:17.860 --> 00:43:22.619 good. You covered a lot of really important ground there and help me organize. 622 00:43:22.659 --> 00:43:24.699 A couple thoughts are on at one. I can absolutely see how operations 623 00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:31.889 would lend itself to a customer experience approach, in particular because it is interdisciplinary 624 00:43:32.010 --> 00:43:37.530 or cross silo or cross function however, you wanted to find that and operations 625 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:42.360 has that, that underlying element baked in. I think there's also an experience 626 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:44.960 there. I mean you got to it really there at the end a little 627 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:46.920 bit, because I agree. I'm and I've hired a number of people through 628 00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:51.280 my career and you if you went to a prestigious school and went really well, 629 00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.789 that's part of the holistic snapshot of You on paper. But ultimately it's 630 00:43:54.789 --> 00:43:59.789 it's you in person, it's the accomplishments, it's the stories you're allowed that 631 00:43:59.949 --> 00:44:05.110 that you can tell extemporaneously in an interview. That really and what other people 632 00:44:05.150 --> 00:44:07.389 say about you, reputation right. Just to double back to social media and 633 00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:12.139 stories, people, talent, experience, I do agree that it all adds 634 00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:16.340 together to make you a more well rounded person in a lot of environments. 635 00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:20.699 But but you mentioned like right off the Bat, when I step down that 636 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:24.010 campus, I knew this place was for me. I think my son had 637 00:44:24.090 --> 00:44:30.570 that same moment visiting northwestern a couple summers back. But but there's an experience 638 00:44:30.650 --> 00:44:34.409 there to like being there in person. I did my MBA over five years 639 00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:37.210 to drag it out as long as I could make it easier to pay for 640 00:44:37.690 --> 00:44:43.039 and I opted not to do any classes online a because the school was, 641 00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:45.280 you know, a thirty minute drive from my office, so I could get 642 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.639 up there a couple week nights every week. But there's something about that in 643 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.510 person experience. I think that that adds to the whole thing. Talk about 644 00:44:52.550 --> 00:45:00.150 it from an experiential standpoint. Absolutely. I mean probably the best and most 645 00:45:00.150 --> 00:45:04.670 lasting impact of going to business school is the network that I created by being 646 00:45:04.750 --> 00:45:07.420 there. And one of the things that they do at Kellog, and I'm 647 00:45:07.460 --> 00:45:12.980 sure there's some psychology behind this, but the first day you're there of orientation, 648 00:45:13.539 --> 00:45:17.179 the head of admissions stands up and basically tells you about your class. 649 00:45:17.780 --> 00:45:22.289 And you know, in my class there was, you know, everybody short 650 00:45:22.329 --> 00:45:27.489 of the like curing cancer, right there was the guy that spent three years 651 00:45:27.530 --> 00:45:30.730 in Africa, you know, saving babies, and there was the other person 652 00:45:30.849 --> 00:45:34.849 that climbed Mount Everest and there was other person that and it was like, 653 00:45:35.010 --> 00:45:37.880 oh my gosh, you just kept feeling smaller and small are because these people 654 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:45.119 had done unbelievable, remarkable things, and that's really that. The takeaway was 655 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:49.679 just it was so it was such an experience to be in a room, 656 00:45:50.150 --> 00:45:52.469 not where you feel like the smartest person in the room, but where you 657 00:45:52.550 --> 00:45:55.510 feel like everyone's the smartest person in the room and they're all kind of challenging 658 00:45:55.670 --> 00:46:00.230 you to think differently. I remember one project that we were on, a 659 00:46:00.349 --> 00:46:02.710 group project, where I was there. It was a marketer, the person 660 00:46:02.789 --> 00:46:06.340 next to me was a teacher, the person next to them was from the 661 00:46:06.380 --> 00:46:08.099 military, the person next to them, you know, was from a was, 662 00:46:08.300 --> 00:46:10.980 I don't know, from the medical industry or whatever, and here we 663 00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:16.300 are all trying to solve the same problem, bringing our unique experiences together to 664 00:46:16.460 --> 00:46:21.090 solve it, and I thought it was absolutely fascinating and you don't get enough 665 00:46:21.130 --> 00:46:27.010 of that in the work world because oftentimes it's a very homogeneous population, versus 666 00:46:27.530 --> 00:46:30.730 being in that trying to solve a complex business case, sitting next to a 667 00:46:30.849 --> 00:46:35.800 doctor, and it was was really, really interesting to me. It's great 668 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.559 and it leads into the way I always like to close the show here, 669 00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.039 because I know you have a call to top of the hour, so I 670 00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:44.559 want to honor that. Relationships are our number one core value here at Bomb 671 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:46.789 Im. We're all about that human connection, the relationship to give and taken, 672 00:46:46.909 --> 00:46:50.590 everything that comes through that. So I like to give you the chance 673 00:46:50.670 --> 00:46:53.030 to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career 674 00:46:53.429 --> 00:46:55.869 and to give a shout out to a company that you respect for the way 675 00:46:55.909 --> 00:47:00.619 that they treat customers. Cool. Well, I'm going to give a shout 676 00:47:00.619 --> 00:47:05.699 out to my friend and mentor, shot a pike in, who is a 677 00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:09.980 customer service Guru, who I like to call my my brother from another mother 678 00:47:10.059 --> 00:47:15.019 because we share the same hair do and when we're walking side by side it's 679 00:47:15.019 --> 00:47:17.210 a pretty funny site. But chef has you know, he's a hall of 680 00:47:17.289 --> 00:47:22.329 Fame Speaker. He's been in the business for thirty plus years and he has 681 00:47:22.409 --> 00:47:27.889 been so generous with his time and his mentorship and and really helping me along 682 00:47:28.130 --> 00:47:31.079 in this business, which I think everybody needs. Everybody needs a mentor. 683 00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:35.679 I've tried to be a mentor too many people as I can and throughout my 684 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.000 career, but it is always nice when you when you get one for yourself. 685 00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:42.199 So I want to thank Chep for that. And the company right now 686 00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:47.469 that I am absolutely obsessed with is called imperfect produce and it's a start up 687 00:47:47.469 --> 00:47:52.949 out of San Francisco. They are essentially taking what they call ugly fruit and 688 00:47:52.989 --> 00:47:58.349 vegetables, that stuff it isn't pretty enough to go into grocery stores and they've 689 00:47:58.389 --> 00:48:01.380 created a subscription program out of it. And what I think is so remarkable 690 00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:05.500 about it is that not only is it a great value, where I'm getting, 691 00:48:05.900 --> 00:48:08.900 you know, might be sometimes really large cucumbers or really small apples or 692 00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:15.050 whatever, or dense or bruises, it's really high quality fruit and vegetables and 693 00:48:15.130 --> 00:48:17.289 a great price, but the other part that they're so good at is that 694 00:48:17.570 --> 00:48:23.210 they helped me measure on the website in real time. They tell me how 695 00:48:23.369 --> 00:48:28.719 much, how many pounds of waste I've saved from the landfill and how much 696 00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:31.159 water I've saved, because they you know because of that, and how much 697 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:36.000 cot I've kept out of the air, and it's really an interesting way of 698 00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:42.949 keeping the customer hooked because you you understand your own contribution, your own value 699 00:48:43.070 --> 00:48:47.030 back. Plus they have hilarious marketing. They're so clever. Their billboards are 700 00:48:47.070 --> 00:48:51.869 funny, the boxes they ship the stuff in are really creative. So I 701 00:48:51.989 --> 00:48:57.500 just I think they've really figured out how to take something as strange as ugly 702 00:48:57.579 --> 00:49:01.300 fruit and turn it into a fantastic experience. So good and what they're doing 703 00:49:01.420 --> 00:49:06.019 there is tying you into something bigger. It's bigger than me in the fruit 704 00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:08.179 I may or may not want to eat for the way it looks and getting 705 00:49:08.179 --> 00:49:10.809 over that. But this idea of like you, you are part of something 706 00:49:10.889 --> 00:49:15.929 bigger when you participate with us, such a such a powerful add Dan, 707 00:49:15.050 --> 00:49:19.409 this has been awesome. Really, really enjoyed the conversation. I appreciate your 708 00:49:19.449 --> 00:49:22.769 time so much for folks that want to and by the way, I learned 709 00:49:22.769 --> 00:49:25.400 about imperfect, imperfect fruit. Yeah, produce and yeah, I'm perfect both. 710 00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:30.039 Probably sorry. I learned about that from experience this. So it's socus 711 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:32.119 to connect with you or the podcast or your book or anything. How can 712 00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:37.159 people follow up if they enjoyed any aspect of this conversation? Sure will definitely 713 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:43.349 comes. See me on my website at Dan gingiscom. It's Gi and GISS 714 00:49:43.789 --> 00:49:47.190 and there's links to everything, their book, podcast, speaking etc. I'm 715 00:49:47.230 --> 00:49:51.909 also very active on twitter, and not surprisingly since I'm a social media guy. 716 00:49:51.989 --> 00:49:54.219 So that's at D Gengis and I love to engage. I practice what 717 00:49:54.260 --> 00:49:57.659 I preach. So if you reach out to me, I promise I'll respond 718 00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:02.099 and generally pretty pretty quickly and then experience. This is available wherever you listen 719 00:50:02.139 --> 00:50:07.289 to this podcast or any other podcast. Itunes, Stitcher, you know your 720 00:50:07.329 --> 00:50:09.690 favorite podcast APP. We should be on it, and it's not. Reach 721 00:50:09.730 --> 00:50:13.010 out to me and I'll make sure that we get on it. Awesome. 722 00:50:13.369 --> 00:50:15.570 Thank you so much for your time. I hope you have a great rest 723 00:50:15.610 --> 00:50:19.250 of your day and really appreciate all the stories you're able to share with us 724 00:50:19.250 --> 00:50:22.960 here. Thank you. I appreciate the great questions and for really pushing me. 725 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:28.079 It was fun cool. Continued success to you. Take care. I 726 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:32.239 love that concierge approach from her Dennis Office and everywhere else it can be applied. 727 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:37.989 If you want more useful customer experience ideas and conversations, check out the 728 00:50:38.150 --> 00:50:44.869 customer experience podcast. You can find it in apple, Google, spotify or 729 00:50:44.989 --> 00:50:49.789 wherever you prefer to listen to podcasts. You can also check out episode summaries, 730 00:50:49.789 --> 00:50:54.699 video clips and a whole lot more at Bombombcom podcast. My name is 731 00:50:54.739 --> 00:51:01.260 Ethan Butte and thanks again for listening to the BE TOB growth show. We 732 00:51:01.539 --> 00:51:06.570 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 733 00:51:06.650 --> 00:51:09.010 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB 734 00:51:09.210 --> 00:51:15.050 growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 735 00:51:15.090 --> 00:51:20.639 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big 736 00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.639 Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three