#CX 33: What Your Marketing Team's Doing That's Probably Illegal w/ Sharon Toerek

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.960 If you're going to repost the content of another person, we need their permission. 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:10.669 You just do. A relationship with the right referral partner could be a 3 00:00:10.789 --> 00:00:15.429 game changer for any BEDB company. So what if you could reverse engineer these 4 00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:21.500 relationships at a moment's notice, start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to 5 00:00:21.579 --> 00:00:26.820 be guests on your show and grow your referral network faster than ever. Learn 6 00:00:26.980 --> 00:00:36.289 more. At Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to be tob growth, a daily 7 00:00:36.289 --> 00:00:40.689 podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like 8 00:00:40.850 --> 00:00:44.929 Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority 9 00:00:45.009 --> 00:00:49.729 of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers 10 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:53.439 and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches, leading sales and 11 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:58.359 marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the 12 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:02.640 fastest growing betb companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm 13 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:06.189 the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and 14 00:01:06.310 --> 00:01:10.150 I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales 15 00:01:10.189 --> 00:01:12.950 and marketing leaders. You'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. 16 00:01:14.349 --> 00:01:17.590 Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take 17 00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:22.540 over the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. 18 00:01:26.900 --> 00:01:32.500 Creating and delivering a better our customer experience is the most important thing we can 19 00:01:32.540 --> 00:01:37.010 do today. It's how we differentiate ourselves and it's how we grow our businesses 20 00:01:37.090 --> 00:01:42.730 most effectively. It needs to be extraordinary, but being extraordinary isn't as hard 21 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:47.519 as it sounds. It just means extra ordinary. That's one takeaway from this 22 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:49.680 episode of the be tob growth show. Many MS Ethan, but this is 23 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.799 part of the CX series which I host here on the show. Didn Gingis 24 00:01:53.920 --> 00:02:00.000 is about to help us become extraordinary. See our brands through our customers eyes, 25 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:06.390 tap into the real service potential of social media, manage customers expectations and 26 00:02:06.549 --> 00:02:10.870 a whole lot more. Here we go. Welcome back to the customer experience 27 00:02:10.990 --> 00:02:15.349 podcast. Today's guests, who am very excited is with us, is an 28 00:02:15.389 --> 00:02:21.699 intellectual property and marketing law attorney who helps creative professionals protect, enforce and monetize 29 00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:24.699 their creative assets. She is very active as a board member and board director 30 00:02:24.740 --> 00:02:29.099 and support of small businesses and entrepreneurship, so we may get into that. 31 00:02:29.219 --> 00:02:34.009 She's worked with jump start, the National Small Business Association, Greater Cleveland Partnership, 32 00:02:34.090 --> 00:02:38.289 the Council of small enterprises and more. She's a two time speaker at 33 00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:40.969 inbound, which is hub spots annual conference. She's also spoken at content marketing 34 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:45.439 world, so we'll get a little bit into marketing talk. She also hosts 35 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:50.840 the innovative agency PODCAST share and Toric. Welcome to the customer experience podcast. 36 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.319 So much even I'm so excited to be here with you today. Yeah, 37 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.280 we've we've actually met in person, which is something I can't say about all 38 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.229 of our guests, and I'm really excited to have you on the show. 39 00:03:00.349 --> 00:03:01.669 We're going to we're going to get into a variety of things. I would 40 00:03:01.669 --> 00:03:06.189 like to maybe talk a little bit about small business entrepreneurship. Definitely Marketing, 41 00:03:06.270 --> 00:03:09.030 definitely law. That's a really unique expertise that you bring to the show that 42 00:03:09.110 --> 00:03:12.939 I think is going to be really relevant to a lot of seats in the 43 00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:15.740 house and a variety of organizations. But will start with your thoughts or your 44 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:20.939 definition or characteristics. When I say customer experience, what comes to mind for 45 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:27.729 you? Yeah, it's it's definitely abroad, potentially abroad topic. I think 46 00:03:28.370 --> 00:03:31.330 customer experience means to me that, at the end of the day, at 47 00:03:31.370 --> 00:03:36.610 the end of the transaction, if you're a transactional business, or at the 48 00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:39.569 end of the project, if you're somebody who works on go on an ongoing 49 00:03:39.650 --> 00:03:46.439 basis with your client or customer, is did the customer feel heard? Did 50 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:52.039 they feel see? You know, dealing in a legal context, there's some 51 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.680 situations where, frankly, at the end of the day, nobody gets the 52 00:03:54.990 --> 00:03:59.949 a hundred percent result that they want for lots of reasons. And but if 53 00:03:59.990 --> 00:04:04.310 that client felt heard or understood, that they saw sense of empathy in you 54 00:04:04.509 --> 00:04:09.669 from what they were dealing with and a genuine interest and getting them to their 55 00:04:09.750 --> 00:04:14.259 goals or helping them, that's the hallmark of a good customer experience. In 56 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:18.300 my my opinion, that is beautiful. It you're using language that I like 57 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.579 to use a lot. Of course, I talk a lot about video and 58 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:26.329 its ability to help people be seen and heard and understood. All words you 59 00:04:26.449 --> 00:04:30.170 just use there to create that feeling and not just so that you, as 60 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:32.129 the center of a video can be seen in her and understood, but also 61 00:04:32.209 --> 00:04:35.089 that you can let the other person know that they have to by looking them 62 00:04:35.129 --> 00:04:39.120 in the eye. So awesome language there, and I agree with you completely. 63 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.759 That is a critical component of a very broad topic. Let's get into 64 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.600 your specialty. Why did you start to work law? Like? What was 65 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.560 the gap in the experience for specifically for creative professionals, as they sought legal 66 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.949 council, Legal Help? Like? What were you trying to solve when you 67 00:04:53.389 --> 00:04:57.509 started your own firm with the specialty right? Well, we were, you 68 00:04:57.629 --> 00:05:03.629 know, I was previously in a more general business focused law practice and sort 69 00:05:03.670 --> 00:05:11.259 of started working with creative services agencies and focus businesses and really love dealing with 70 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:15.420 the issues they were dealing with. And really there was it was what I 71 00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:18.379 call Blue Ocean for me as a lawyer, which is tremendous. But there 72 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:24.970 was nobody helping them. They really were at the intersection of entrepreneurial or small 73 00:05:25.050 --> 00:05:30.490 business issues and issues relative to a specific industry, which is the advertising industry, 74 00:05:30.649 --> 00:05:38.319 and there was really a very few resources for them to go get their 75 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:44.839 legal issues addressed and for someone to give them some proactive council about how to 76 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.790 build their businesses successfully. So it was a wonder opportunity for me to focus 77 00:05:49.910 --> 00:05:55.189 on industry I love and intersect it with an area are a few areas of 78 00:05:55.269 --> 00:06:00.069 law that I was proficient in and and that I enjoyed practicing. So for 79 00:06:00.189 --> 00:06:03.500 me everything kind of met at that intersection and we've been focused there ever since. 80 00:06:03.540 --> 00:06:10.139 Awesome and I expected that that focus in that very particular specialty is a 81 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:14.540 value to the client as well. Yeah, I hope so. I certainly. 82 00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:15.220 I mean, we all hope that at the end of the day, 83 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:20.250 right, I think it is because, first of all, there's just there's 84 00:06:20.329 --> 00:06:28.129 something about understanding the struggles of an entrepreneurial company or are more traditional small business 85 00:06:28.250 --> 00:06:31.290 and at the end of the day, a lot of these agencies are we 86 00:06:31.449 --> 00:06:34.959 work only with independent agencies, so none of them that are in holding company 87 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:41.600 networks. But they are entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs just like any other entrepreneur, but 88 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:46.040 they, you know, they have these specific regulatory or legal or whatever issues 89 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:49.230 that they have there. Creating a lot of intellectual cap but also, I 90 00:06:49.389 --> 00:06:53.910 P is a huge part of what they do and they really just needed an 91 00:06:53.949 --> 00:06:59.670 advocate, somebody to educate them, advocate for them. Help them understand how 92 00:06:59.750 --> 00:07:03.019 to best protect themselves out of the best leverage themselves, and so I yeah, 93 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:06.500 I think they do. We certainly have less to have a lot of 94 00:07:08.259 --> 00:07:13.019 really strong relationship with people who, frankly, don't have a good match elsewhere 95 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:16.610 for their legal concerns. Just for context for folks listening, who is your 96 00:07:16.689 --> 00:07:20.449 ideal client as yours? You're speaking this way. You know who is this 97 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:26.970 company? Who Is this entrepreneur? Approximately, yes, are. That's a 98 00:07:27.089 --> 00:07:32.480 GREIG question. And our clients are independent marketing, advertising and communications firms, 99 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:40.319 which means that they can help other businesses with digital marketing, which traditional advertising, 100 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.949 with their social media campaigns. So it's a business who provides as service 101 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:49.149 to somebody else, which is independently owned and which is midsize or small in 102 00:07:49.189 --> 00:07:56.310 nature. So our typical client probably has about fifty or so employees, but 103 00:07:56.470 --> 00:08:01.259 we have clients with as few as fine employees and I think our largest client 104 00:08:01.300 --> 00:08:05.339 as an agency, with maybe about a hundred and thirty team members. So 105 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:11.819 that's the size we're working with and they're generally revenues of thirty million and below. 106 00:08:11.860 --> 00:08:16.889 Okay, great, it's very helpful. So you mentioned some of the 107 00:08:16.970 --> 00:08:22.370 issues that they face for especially for the executives and marketers listening to this episode. 108 00:08:22.649 --> 00:08:26.170 Where are some of the hot spots where, well, meeting marketers can 109 00:08:26.250 --> 00:08:30.879 get into hot spots? Yeah, well, I can tell you a couple 110 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.799 of things that are particularly hot right now and and emerging even you know, 111 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.080 the privacy the data privacy landscape is changing quite a bit right now, and 112 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:46.269 so we were all focused on Gdpr last year, which is a European regulation 113 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:50.269 that deals with consumer privacy. But now we're seeing here in the US now 114 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.059 like California has enacted its own statute with a consumer privacy act, but we 115 00:08:56.179 --> 00:09:01.220 have other states considering their own versions of data privacy. X Texas is looking 116 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:03.700 at a big change. I know here my homestate, Ohio, has a 117 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:11.809 data act, and there's also this growing pressure in any industry that relies upon 118 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:16.409 the ability to do direct marketing to create some sort of national standard so that 119 00:09:16.809 --> 00:09:20.889 marketers aren't dealing with fifty s different sets of state laws. And this is 120 00:09:20.970 --> 00:09:26.879 one of the few areas I think we're small marketers and then the big data 121 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.200 owners, like the googles and the Amazons of the world, are really aligned, 122 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.559 because no big company wants fifty laws to have to follow any more than 123 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:41.429 an entrepreneurial size this is does so data privacy, first of all, and 124 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:46.230 then social media and influencer marketing compliance is something that is an ongoing concern because 125 00:09:46.309 --> 00:09:50.389 in impacts every kind of company, whether you do be to be marketing or 126 00:09:50.549 --> 00:09:54.940 whether you are BBC company. Probably, particularly if you're a beautity, be 127 00:09:56.100 --> 00:10:00.100 THEC company where your audience might be more vulnerable. It's are you following the 128 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:05.940 rules relative to using influencers, regarding using product testimonials? So those are probably 129 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:09.009 two the two biggest hot buttons. And then we have a lot of day 130 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:15.370 to day international property protection questions, like how do you protect a copyright and 131 00:10:15.450 --> 00:10:18.970 something that's original? How do you make sure that your brand name are your 132 00:10:18.009 --> 00:10:22.039 brand identity is secure? That sort of stuff. Cool. Let's get into 133 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.039 influencer marketing a little bit more. I have my own opinions on it and 134 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.480 I suspect that they're related to the to the legal troubles potentially around it. 135 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.679 Talk a little bit about influencer marketing, like DOS and don'ts, pros and 136 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.190 cons. You know. Where do you see go? Well, where do 137 00:10:37.190 --> 00:10:41.309 you see go poorly? Right? Well, where you see go poorly. 138 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:48.710 The worst example of influencer marketing blowing up are typically the examples we see where 139 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:54.259 some celebrity is involved and something mistake is made, either because a false claim 140 00:10:54.379 --> 00:11:01.500 got made or the right disclaimers aren't made and and there's some sort of financial 141 00:11:01.899 --> 00:11:05.289 harm are, you know, even worse, so some sort of physical harm 142 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.649 to somebody. So those are the you know, those are the sexiest cases 143 00:11:07.769 --> 00:11:13.769 to read about think about, but the trap doors are really a lot more 144 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:20.399 predominant when you're working with Microwin fluencers, those who have smaller, you know, 145 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:22.600 tribes, if you will, and it's usually out of a lack of 146 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:28.320 knowledge on the part of the influence or the influencers team or the marketing team 147 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.710 within your company. And it's stuff like, did you remember to disclose in 148 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:37.309 the campaign that the influence are got free product? That's the influence AER got 149 00:11:37.389 --> 00:11:41.190 invited to an event and they asked to talk or post about it. Did 150 00:11:41.269 --> 00:11:46.539 they disclose that? So it's really lack of disclosing when it's appropriate to disclose. 151 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:56.539 It's making claims and posts about products or things that either aren't true or 152 00:11:56.580 --> 00:12:01.490 they may be true but they're not verifiable, they're overbroad which is more sort 153 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:05.490 of like a traditional advertising principle or translated into social media. And then it's 154 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:11.009 just a traditional things like using images you're not entitled to use, are reposting 155 00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:16.440 content or the likeness of a person that you don't have the authorization to repost, 156 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.200 or reviews, which are more traditional, and electric property or couple sitate 157 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.519 rights issues. So kind of blends all that into one big pile and there's 158 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.669 lots of bad paths you can take and again usually it's as a result of 159 00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:33.870 lack of knowledge, not intense yeah, absolutely, and that's the interesting thing. 160 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:37.830 Many interesting things there. Let's go back to this idea that you know 161 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.470 because you got into microinfluencers and so you know, influencer marketing in in a 162 00:12:43.549 --> 00:12:50.259 fundamental ways is not significantly different than, you know, the celebrity endorsements of 163 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:54.620 years pasted right like I'm seeing O G Simpson running through the airport, gets 164 00:12:54.659 --> 00:13:00.169 into some legal and awful turmoil. You know, if he was still relevant 165 00:13:00.169 --> 00:13:03.889 at that time, certainly everyone that endorsed him would have dropped him. But 166 00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:07.690 the using thing about the microinfluencer now is that everyone has their own channel, 167 00:13:07.730 --> 00:13:09.809 right, like you don't have to be a professional athlete or television star or 168 00:13:09.889 --> 00:13:16.440 film star or whatever musician, to have a platform that has value that can 169 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.720 be monetized. So talk a little bit more about that. Like how can 170 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.000 it be done successfully for someone who has been thinking about it, who is 171 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.710 maybe toy to with a little bit? They haven't started imagined be easier to 172 00:13:28.789 --> 00:13:33.429 deal with a microinfluencer if you've done more traditional, higher level influencer marketing where 173 00:13:33.429 --> 00:13:37.309 there is some guidance, maybe there's legal representation on the other side where they're 174 00:13:37.350 --> 00:13:41.539 probably isn't with a microinfluence or like or are some routes to success right? 175 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:46.379 Well, I mean, these are all great questions and I think that really 176 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:52.779 the reason we're seeing the rise of microinfluence is because, first of all, 177 00:13:54.620 --> 00:14:01.490 celebrity influence, our campaigns are extremely expensive for brands to run and the the 178 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:07.169 errors from a legal perspective are even, I think, are somewhat unforgivable, 179 00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:11.559 because there's the resources there to actually do the due diligence and to do the 180 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.440 review before campaigns go alive. And so you might argue that when it comes 181 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.919 to celebrity influence it's more expensive, you have a lot more costs involved and 182 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.549 executing it successfully. These are all reasons, business reasons, not necessarily equal 183 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:30.950 reasons, why microinfluencing is, I think, more popular and right now. 184 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:35.629 But from a legal point of view, these are the campaigns where if you 185 00:14:35.710 --> 00:14:39.620 do a little of work up front in terms of team education, not only 186 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:46.860 the marketing team at the brand but the team around the influencer, even involving 187 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:52.100 the microinfluencer themselves and helping them understand these are the rules. If you talk 188 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:54.250 about the product, you have to say and you got the product for free, 189 00:14:56.009 --> 00:14:58.889 you need to say that. If we have a relationship with each other 190 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.490 where we pay you for being an ambassador for our brand, you need to 191 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:05.730 disclose that you're an abst just sort of having taking a step back for the 192 00:15:05.769 --> 00:15:11.519 campaign launches and having a conversation with everybody involved about what the rules actually are. 193 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:18.240 So there's easy opportunities for some fast education and training up front as you 194 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.990 get involved in executing the campaign. What then becomes most important is somebody needs 195 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:28.629 to be monitoring it, because of the viral nature of social media. Once 196 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:31.350 some thing's out there, you have to react quickly to sort of dial it 197 00:15:31.429 --> 00:15:35.980 back or it's presidents. President spreads super quickly and then you have a reputation 198 00:15:37.100 --> 00:15:43.539 management problem for the brand, possibly for the influencer, etc. So I 199 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:48.700 think that it's easier to do correctly. I suppose you might base the argument 200 00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:52.090 that it's harder to do correctly because the are a fewer resources, but we 201 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:56.929 really just talking about training and conversation up front to land the foundation. So 202 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:03.730 and my view, if you're going to engage as a brand and influencer marketing, 203 00:16:03.809 --> 00:16:07.039 if you sell the type of product or service that makes it a good 204 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.679 fit for that, we shouldn't be dipping your toes in that water and to 205 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.720 really understand the legal landscape and then from a business point of view. I 206 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.710 know I'm not a professional marketer, so everybody has to do their own analysis. 207 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:25.750 But the microinfluence is working, I think, so much more effective because 208 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:30.110 the audiences for the messages are so much more engaged with the influencer. And 209 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:37.740 those circumstances, if you have a celebrity twitter account, instagram account that's celebrity 210 00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:41.980 is probably not going to engage that much with the average person who's engaging trying 211 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:45.580 to engage with them. But these macro influencers, you know, and the 212 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:52.330 beauty space in the health of lawness space other spaces fashioned they actually do react 213 00:16:52.529 --> 00:16:57.169 with a react to or interact with the tribes that follow them, and so 214 00:16:57.450 --> 00:17:00.879 you can really create relationships for brants that way. Yeah, you want to 215 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.960 find that sweet spot where they have a large enough audience that it's worthwhile, 216 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.680 but they're also small enough that they're still hungry and they want to like over 217 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:15.390 deliver or over deliver for you than I want to go to something. This 218 00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:22.029 is for any CS person or salesperson or marketer or executive who's doing his or 219 00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:25.630 her own content, you know, like in Linkedin or maybe in a blog 220 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:27.309 or in any of these other channels. And I'm going to go back to 221 00:17:27.390 --> 00:17:32.420 something you mentioned earlier because it's so common, and this is the idea that 222 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:36.740 you're using images that you don't have the right to use or music that you 223 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:38.339 don't have the right to use, in the case the people are doing video. 224 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:41.420 I hear that all the time and it is even though I came up 225 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:45.369 in broadcast television, so I was very familiar with with music rights in that 226 00:17:45.569 --> 00:17:51.089 context. They're a little bit different online. Give some pointers to anyone who 227 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:56.009 is publishing content on a platform. On behalf of themselves as a personal brand 228 00:17:56.089 --> 00:18:02.640 and as a company representative around rights to images and music. Like what or 229 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:07.440 anything else that comes to mind around that? A BASS? Yeah, well, 230 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.839 I'm happy that you ask it because it's the first to bin out for 231 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.990 everybody who might be watching this is that, ultimately, if you're posting content, 232 00:18:17.309 --> 00:18:21.670 I don't care which platform and I don't care what type of content, 233 00:18:21.869 --> 00:18:26.700 whether it's copy, imagery video, you're doing it for commercial reason. Right, 234 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:30.259 ultimately, at the end of the day, yes, you're trying to 235 00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:33.180 relationship build, yes, you're trying to do all these other things, but 236 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:36.740 the end of the day, is for a commercial purpose. When it's for 237 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:41.099 a commercial purpose, there is no such thing as fair use. And what 238 00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:44.930 I mean. The reason why that's important is because we've got this whole generation 239 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:49.809 now of digital natives who feel are sudden, they feels that they haven't been 240 00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:56.279 taught differently, that just because something is out there online, it's not free 241 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:02.960 for the taking, particularly when your end use is commercial. So as your 242 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.519 use is commercial and therefore there's no such thing as for use, and once 243 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.910 you've your player on those points, then you understand that if you're going to 244 00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:15.549 repost the content of another person. You need their permission. You just do. 245 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:18.950 I know it's slow things down, I know it's a buzz kill, 246 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:25.660 but you just do. You need their permission to repost. Attribution is nice, 247 00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:29.500 but it's not technically going to get you out from under any copyright problems, 248 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:33.819 and if the person who's content you've posted objects to you doing so, 249 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:37.690 then you have a potential infringement situation. So I always give attribution. Always 250 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:42.289 give credit first of all, but you need permission at the end of the 251 00:19:42.289 --> 00:19:48.210 day, and fair use is not a construct that will help you if your 252 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:52.440 use is commercial, which is all it almost always is. So that's my 253 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:57.920 first I think go to and be original. I mean be original on the 254 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:04.079 way you're using a third person's content. What gets people in trouble is is 255 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:11.029 not adding any of their own original person in addition to not asking for permission, 256 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:15.470 are not giving credit, is not any anny, anything additional or insightful 257 00:20:15.509 --> 00:20:22.180 or original to whatever it is that they're sharing. Sharing just for the sake 258 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:27.059 of sharing, I think, is not it's not worth the trouble from given 259 00:20:27.099 --> 00:20:32.819 the risk that you're taking on from an inelactual property perspective versus of Milogy might 260 00:20:32.859 --> 00:20:38.450 be getting from a branding or a marketing perspective cool. Today's growth story is 261 00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:42.170 about a brand we all know well, are BNB. When they were trying 262 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:47.089 to maximize growth among work travelers, are be and be new, they needed 263 00:20:47.130 --> 00:20:52.200 to develop and execute a content strategy to reach multiple personas at different stages of 264 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.279 the customer journey. Enter hub and spoke marketing. Hub and spoke managed creative 265 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:03.359 content development and crafted a custom publishing process that allowed airbnb to develop more content 266 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.230 in less time. The end result a lot of content across multiple channels, 267 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:12.789 all strategically nurturing leads through to conversion. Within the first six months, are 268 00:21:12.869 --> 00:21:18.019 BNB nearly tripled the number of companies enrolled in their AIRBNB for work program they 269 00:21:18.099 --> 00:21:23.180 also saw huge increases in user adoption, with work travelers booking longer stays and 270 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:27.900 more guests for booking. If you're looking for strategic content at scale, I've 271 00:21:27.940 --> 00:21:32.930 got a hunch hub and spoke can help. Head over to hub spoke dot 272 00:21:33.049 --> 00:21:38.210 marketing growth to schedule your consultation with a content specialist. Today. That's hub 273 00:21:38.289 --> 00:21:45.130 spoke dot marketing growth. All right, let's get back to the show now. 274 00:21:45.369 --> 00:21:51.079 Specifically, if we're on linkedin and we see a video, like for 275 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.920 an upcoming campaign or a Webinar or an event or whatever, that a company 276 00:21:53.960 --> 00:22:00.160 has produced and it has popular music in it, say like like popular music 277 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.470 that you were I would recognize, and they almost certainly didn't pay for the 278 00:22:04.549 --> 00:22:07.430 rights, because I would assume that's a little bit like a celebrity endorsement, 279 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:11.509 where it would be very, very expensive. So why would you buy the 280 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:17.460 rights to a popular song for a oneoff campaign? Like, yeah, well, 281 00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:22.099 illegal, probably? Yeah, yeah, probably, doubtally don't that. 282 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.779 Yeah, if you don't have a license to use a popular recent music in 283 00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:30.849 your campaign, then you can't use the music in your campaign. I mean 284 00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:40.890 there are plenty of sources of legally obtainable music clips. You can subscribe to 285 00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:45.680 services that will provide you access to a catalog. You can, if your 286 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.880 budget allows for you can get your own original music prepared to say as expensive 287 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:52.279 as you think it is anymore. There's lots of sons of musicians that they're 288 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:59.230 dying for that opportunity. Yeah, not, legal, expensive. If the 289 00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:02.869 I mean you're probably depending on your reach or what it is that you're selling, 290 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:07.269 you're definitely going to get a season desist request and you might get a 291 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:11.470 big fat licensing fee demand as well. It's just not worth it. You 292 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.619 know, fair use does not mean if you found it online, you get 293 00:23:15.619 --> 00:23:19.299 to use it online. Fair use is a concept that's a defense to copyright 294 00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:23.539 infringement. That applies and very, very limited settings, and most of them 295 00:23:23.539 --> 00:23:26.650 aren't relevant to the people who are going to be watching this. Honestly. 296 00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:30.650 Right, good. So we should all know what the right thing is and 297 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.450 we should all do the right thing. Let's go a little bit now to 298 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:37.849 to experience and relationships a little bit. I want to I want to get 299 00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:41.920 your perspective on a few different types of relationships. Let's start with like the 300 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:47.720 client to the agency. Right, let's talk a little bit about that relationship, 301 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:52.640 that experience. How if someone is contracting some aspect of their workout to 302 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.559 an agency, you know what should they look for? What you know? 303 00:23:55.750 --> 00:23:59.029 Just talk about I know you manage that a lot or your you have a 304 00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:03.430 good purview into it. Yeah, here's, here's some thoughts or some recommendations 305 00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:07.390 there. Well, Gosh, I mean I think that and I think a 306 00:24:07.430 --> 00:24:11.380 lot of agency said work. We would agree with this. There are so 307 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:21.980 many opportunities to work with a marketing partner who really understands your goals and your 308 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:26.809 audience. It's harder, though, to find the right intersection of somebody who 309 00:24:26.809 --> 00:24:33.690 understand your bowls and your into your industry as well. So you know, 310 00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:37.769 if you can find a partner who has the same philosophy that you do about 311 00:24:37.970 --> 00:24:41.519 you know how they treat a client or customer IEU and they also understand your 312 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.799 industry, that's gold. And I think it's a getting increasingly easier to do 313 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.829 that because more agencies are taking that bold step of developing niches and and sticking 314 00:24:52.910 --> 00:24:56.950 to the niches rather than trying to be all things to help people. And 315 00:24:57.150 --> 00:25:03.269 one of that niche is a vertical and industry vertical or whether it's a horizontal 316 00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:08.779 expertise like email video marketing, it's working with a partner who is really proficient 317 00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:15.940 and some specific technology or tactic or someone who really understands the industry that your 318 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:21.420 client is and so that's those are my best tips from matching up with somebody 319 00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:26.529 who really is a good partner for you. And then, ultimately it's got 320 00:25:26.609 --> 00:25:30.369 to be someone who understands your business goals and it is interested in helping you 321 00:25:32.329 --> 00:25:36.680 achieve them. We were talking earlier about customer experiences. Do they see you? 322 00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:40.640 Do they hear you? It's great that they have got wonderful creative concepts, 323 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.359 but are they the ones that are going to return our life for you 324 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.869 and help you achieve the business goals that you set up to achieve? Awesome. 325 00:25:49.910 --> 00:25:56.269 I love this idea of differentiating by specializing and in that way delivering better 326 00:25:56.349 --> 00:25:59.829 on your customers. That also reminds me of your law firm. Talk about 327 00:25:59.990 --> 00:26:04.059 take success. What you're doing too. Yeah, so talk about similar question, 328 00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:08.299 but but a different stakeholder relative to the agency. Talk about like the 329 00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:14.099 freelancer or someone that might be delivering work on behalf of an agency. Talk 330 00:26:14.180 --> 00:26:19.089 about like an independent contractor or freelancer who is operating in service an agency. 331 00:26:19.890 --> 00:26:25.049 It's a really good question. I mean we are in such a struggle for 332 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:32.329 good talent in the marketing world right now. Every single agency client my firm 333 00:26:32.529 --> 00:26:37.440 has this issue of attracting retaining, and I we're just about every single as 334 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.480 a matter of fact. That cannot one comes to mind. It doesn't use 335 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:45.880 independent contractors or freelancers to augment their teams at some point or another, and 336 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:51.349 so it's just a factive life in the marketing world and I would be hard 337 00:26:51.390 --> 00:26:55.950 press us to find a lot of marketing departments internally to brand who haven't done 338 00:26:55.990 --> 00:27:00.190 this occasionally as well. I just had an interview with a really fascinating business 339 00:27:00.269 --> 00:27:07.019 out of Atlanta called we are rosy, and there's an agency just built around 340 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:12.180 putting teams of freelancers together to serve a marketer or a brand, and it's 341 00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:17.769 just it's the way the future. And so there are some specific legal issues 342 00:27:17.849 --> 00:27:19.809 that you need to plan for when you're working for somebody who's not actually going 343 00:27:19.849 --> 00:27:26.930 to be on your on your payroll. You need solid a agreements in writing 344 00:27:26.049 --> 00:27:30.160 in place to protect the intellectional property in the work that they create for you 345 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.160 and make sure you own it at the end of the day. You need 346 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.200 to do all the things in that agreement that the IRS expects you to do 347 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.480 to maintain that independence between you and them. And then you need to head 348 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.789 think have clear parameters around what the goal is for the work that they're going 349 00:27:45.789 --> 00:27:48.829 to be providing for you and how they're going to help you deliver value to 350 00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:52.150 your client, you know. And then along with it is this whole question 351 00:27:52.390 --> 00:27:56.750 of virtual work and they're not always the same thing. There are some, 352 00:27:56.029 --> 00:28:02.299 there a lot of virtual workers who are toys, and there are dependent contractors 353 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:06.859 who could be virtual but might choose to come in and work occasionally on site, 354 00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:10.259 and so they're not always the same thing, they're frequently the same thing, 355 00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:12.690 and so you need to kind of pay attention to both aspects of the 356 00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:18.250 relationship. Love it. It reminds me of what you offered before with regard 357 00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:22.009 to microinfluencers, because in a way they're being contracted for particular piece of work. 358 00:28:22.329 --> 00:28:26.769 You know that just laying out the rules and gain being explicit and clear 359 00:28:26.809 --> 00:28:29.160 from the get go so that people are on the same page. Of course, 360 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:34.119 a step farther when they are directly financially engaged. Let's for you. 361 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.319 Let's just kind of a soft one. You know, as you think about 362 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.509 what experience you want to create for your clients, you know what are some 363 00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:45.990 things that you've maybe learned or so or rule you've always had or like? 364 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:48.990 You know, what are you trying to do for your clients in the way 365 00:28:48.069 --> 00:28:52.190 that you make them feel? How do you make sure that they're seen and 366 00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:56.579 heard and understood? Kind of talk a little bit about customer experience from your 367 00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:00.220 point of view and delivering that for your own clients. Yeah, I I 368 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:07.180 think that it starts based upon the way your team is cultured to interact with 369 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.490 them, because I'm not always their first point of contact one. I mean 370 00:29:11.569 --> 00:29:17.009 once we establish a relationship with a lot of clients with ongoing needs, and 371 00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:21.210 I mean at so you've got to trust that you've got somebody at the gate 372 00:29:21.529 --> 00:29:26.079 who is going to make them feel seen and heard as well. I think 373 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:33.799 that availability and responsiveness are important and I think one of the bigger mistakes I 374 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:42.069 made earlier on in my business career was confusing responsiveness with reactiveness, and I 375 00:29:42.190 --> 00:29:48.069 think a lot of us in service focused firms do this at some point or 376 00:29:48.069 --> 00:29:52.900 another. But we are so hyper folk is on getting back to the customer 377 00:29:53.019 --> 00:30:00.339 of the client and reasonable short amount of time that we're constantly spending our day 378 00:30:02.180 --> 00:30:06.980 react and react mode and putting fire out mode, and that is not ultimately 379 00:30:07.059 --> 00:30:11.849 serving them any better than a more considered or paused approach, and so I 380 00:30:14.130 --> 00:30:17.490 think we ultimately, the other day, do better job for our clients when 381 00:30:17.529 --> 00:30:22.720 we are reactive but not our excuse me, responsive but not reactive, not 382 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.480 knee jerking all the time. So I think those are my top two tips. 383 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.200 And and you know what the client stone. They don't expect you to 384 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:34.599 pick up the phone every single time they they want their issues heard, they 385 00:30:34.710 --> 00:30:40.750 want empathy and understanding, they want their problems solved. And if it takes 386 00:30:40.789 --> 00:30:42.990 you twenty four hours to do that instead of two hours to do that, 387 00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:47.390 obviously if it's an emergency that can't wait, you do what you can. 388 00:30:47.630 --> 00:30:52.500 But Gosh, early on in my days it was everything had to be taken 389 00:30:52.579 --> 00:30:56.220 care of right like yesterday. It's just not true. And it all another 390 00:30:56.380 --> 00:31:00.700 is it not true? But it's not necessarily going to guarantee that the work 391 00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:04.369 product is the quality, the top quality, that you could put out either. 392 00:31:04.569 --> 00:31:10.650 So such like such a good learning and such a good line to draw 393 00:31:10.769 --> 00:31:15.250 between reaction and responsiveness. And you do want to react in that. Hey, 394 00:31:15.769 --> 00:31:18.490 got your message. Know what the issue is. I ampathize with you. 395 00:31:18.569 --> 00:31:21.559 I'm working on right that people just yeah, that that quick touch, 396 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.880 that that immediate availability to say got it, sorry, got it or whatever. 397 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.519 Right, you don't always have to apologize and just let them know that 398 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.950 you're working on it and then you respond properly in times as the situation demands. 399 00:31:36.509 --> 00:31:40.349 Right and you know I mean, I think if you are if you 400 00:31:40.430 --> 00:31:44.430 know, if you work independently, if you train yourself to have this mental 401 00:31:44.470 --> 00:31:48.740 checklist of questions to ask, or if you have a team of you know 402 00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:53.140 how urgent is this? By when do you expect or need a response? 403 00:31:53.980 --> 00:32:00.019 You know, if you remember to put those processes in place, it helps 404 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:02.529 you avoid that natural impulse. You know, we all like to be helpful 405 00:32:04.210 --> 00:32:08.250 and we all need to be helpful and as put the period of time as 406 00:32:08.369 --> 00:32:14.730 we can. But quick isn't always best. You know, immediate isn't always 407 00:32:14.970 --> 00:32:19.880 best. so that was a hard learning for me, but I do better 408 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.839 now than I used to do. I'll say that it's good. We're all 409 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.839 works in progress. I love it. This has been awesome. I know 410 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.670 folks have gotten some really good tips, especially just around the basics of you 411 00:32:30.750 --> 00:32:32.950 know, just because you can right click and save as doesn't mean you have 412 00:32:34.029 --> 00:32:37.549 the rights to use it. As we wrap up, her relationships are our 413 00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:42.670 number one core value here on the podcasting here at bombomb so I always like 414 00:32:42.789 --> 00:32:45.140 to give you the opportunity, before we close, to think or mention someone 415 00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:50.700 who's had a positive impact on your life or career and to give a shout 416 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:54.059 out to a company that has delivered really good experiences to you. Okay, 417 00:32:54.900 --> 00:33:00.769 this is awesome. One person who's had a tremendously positive impact on my career 418 00:33:00.849 --> 00:33:07.609 as a gentleman named drew McCallen, who owns agency Management Institute, and Agency 419 00:33:07.690 --> 00:33:15.279 Management Institute is a company that provides education, peer to peer Learning Workshops and 420 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:22.119 other out coaching other opportunities to independent AD agency owners. And drew his personally 421 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.279 been a great manner to me, not only because he has, he works 422 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:31.869 with hundreds and hundreds of agencies, but more because of his his spirit of 423 00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:37.470 helpfulness and his spirit of service. He's so generous with ideas and feedback. 424 00:33:38.190 --> 00:33:42.700 As a shout out to him for just being really impactful in my life and 425 00:33:42.859 --> 00:33:45.619 lots of ways, but especially, you know, in the business. And 426 00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:52.380 then an example of this is going to probably sound crazy, but it's fresh 427 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:57.250 in my mind because of something that happened on Friday. I'm going to call 428 00:33:57.329 --> 00:34:02.089 out my dentist office. Actually cool. They are not inexpensive. I'm going 429 00:34:02.089 --> 00:34:08.329 to say that first. But my dentist office is has a policy, I 430 00:34:08.530 --> 00:34:15.039 think, of probably having a limited patient base, because every single patient there 431 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.360 is made to feel special and valued and comfortable and and if they're almost like 432 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.670 a concierge for people who need donal work done, and I fortunately don't have 433 00:34:23.710 --> 00:34:27.989 any donal issues. I just go in my cleanings or whatever toice a year. 434 00:34:28.429 --> 00:34:34.389 But they're just from from the dentist to self, to the Higgenis to 435 00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:39.699 the front office, that they are paramount and treating the customer with respect and 436 00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:45.699 making them feel value. So Dr Steven Marsh GDS here in Cleveland Ohio. 437 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.219 He's an awesome guy and his firm is awesome as well. So that's that's 438 00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:53.610 something probably most your watchers are going to expect. Nobody likes going to the 439 00:34:53.650 --> 00:34:58.409 Dunnist, but if you have to, his practice is a great place to 440 00:34:58.449 --> 00:35:00.809 go, and that you know. I have big corporate examples, but I 441 00:35:00.969 --> 00:35:04.289 like the idea of cliing out maybe all that Nice. I love that. 442 00:35:04.409 --> 00:35:07.280 That is not crazy at all and in the language you use is super interesting 443 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:12.840 to me because I immediately could imagine a variety of other businesses that you know, 444 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.880 are maybe generally pedestrian. They're not necessarily looking to innovate or be cutting 445 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.239 edge or anything with the way that they're delivering, but just changing the language 446 00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:27.150 alone of we are concierge for people who happen to need dental services or happen 447 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:32.070 to need blank immediately conjures this image of I am here to be your guide, 448 00:35:32.110 --> 00:35:36.460 to answer questions and all these other things to facilitate something so that it 449 00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:39.659 is frictionless for you. Such a language that you used. I wonder how 450 00:35:39.739 --> 00:35:45.500 many businesses could just use that change of mindset in recruiting, hiring, onboarding, 451 00:35:45.619 --> 00:35:50.690 training and developing of staff, such that we approach it that way right. 452 00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:53.530 And I filter so, not just the way you're treated by the team 453 00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:58.289 there, which is the, you know, the most important thing, but 454 00:35:58.929 --> 00:36:01.969 just little things, little touches, like the technology they use to remind you 455 00:36:02.730 --> 00:36:07.159 about your appointments. I mean you're you know they're using that only emails, 456 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.760 the texts, you know, if you opt in. And we had a 457 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:16.880 scheduling staffo last week. I had a rescheduled appointment and I actually I caught 458 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:22.230 it lunchtime on Thursday to schedule my appointment again, and my dentist himself actually 459 00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:25.909 answered the phone, which he never does, and he said everybody's a lunch 460 00:36:25.989 --> 00:36:29.230 so I like to help them out. I'm answering the phone. So he 461 00:36:29.349 --> 00:36:31.389 schedules me for he says. Oh, looks like we have an opening to 462 00:36:31.550 --> 00:36:35.860 ourrow morning and a fifteen, he says, but they don't like it when 463 00:36:35.860 --> 00:36:37.739 I schedule, he says. So, if this is wrong, someone'll call 464 00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:40.820 you back. Nobody call me back. So I showed up an a fifteen 465 00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:45.179 the next day. Sure enough, he screwed up. There was no spot 466 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.690 at a fifteen. They all felt terrible. They sent me out of there 467 00:36:47.809 --> 00:36:52.650 with a ten starbucks gift card and it was all good and they couldn't have 468 00:36:52.650 --> 00:36:55.690 been more apologetic. So and I was fine with it because I know that 469 00:36:55.929 --> 00:37:00.250 they cared about the fact that I was in convenience. I you know, 470 00:37:00.369 --> 00:37:04.719 you don't get that by calling your cell phone carrier or whatever. Right. 471 00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.960 So good, great story. You are an absolute wealth of knowledge. This 472 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:12.719 has been a pleasure. I really appreciate the way you invest in your community 473 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.750 and invest in entrepreneurs and small businesses. I should really appreciate that. How 474 00:37:15.829 --> 00:37:20.510 can someone follow up with you or with your law firm? Well, first 475 00:37:20.510 --> 00:37:22.510 of all, thanks you than so much for having me. Has Been a 476 00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:28.469 delight to have a conversation with you reach out with at legal and CREATIVECOM. 477 00:37:29.469 --> 00:37:34.420 You can also find me on twitter at Sharon Tork cooe are Ek, on 478 00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:39.179 linkedin shared Toric, and my email is Sharon at legal and CREATIVECOM. Happy 479 00:37:39.219 --> 00:37:43.380 to talk with everyone. Awesome. Thank you again so much for your time 480 00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:45.929 and insights. I hope you have a great rest of your day. See 481 00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:50.250 even thanks for the opportunity. Have a great one. Hey, if you 482 00:37:50.289 --> 00:37:53.250 enjoyed that conversation, I highly recommend that you followed day and on twitter. 483 00:37:53.530 --> 00:37:59.400 He's one of my favorite follows right now. Is Just D Ginghis Gian giss 484 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.360 on twitter. And again, my name is Ethan Butt. I welcome your 485 00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:08.480 feedback on these episodes. You can email me Ethan Etchn at Bombombcom, or 486 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:13.070 you can hit me up on Linkedin Ethan Butte. Last name is spelled be 487 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:20.789 ute. Thanks again for listening to the BE TOB growth show. We totally 488 00:38:20.909 --> 00:38:23.670 get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can 489 00:38:23.710 --> 00:38:27.940 be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the B tob 490 00:38:28.099 --> 00:38:31.940 growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 491 00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:37.699 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom. 492 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:42.530 Big Three, that sweet fish Mediacom Big Three