Nov. 21, 2019

#CX 30: The Financial Side of CX w/ Sarah Toms

In this episode of the #CX series, , Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with , cofounder and Executive Director of  and coauthor of  about focusing on customer lifetime value to know how to invest in your customers. Hear...

In this episode of the #CX series, Ethan Beute, Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with Sarah Toms, cofounder and Executive Director of Wharton Interactive and coauthor of The Customer Centricity Playbook about focusing on customer lifetime value to know how to invest in your customers.

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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:07.509 Customer centricity is not about customer service. It's not about amazing customer experience, 2 00:00:07.589 --> 00:00:12.669 even it certainly collaborates with those ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but it 3 00:00:12.789 --> 00:00:19.309 really is about being more data driven and surrounding your strategy and your values around 4 00:00:19.350 --> 00:00:25.859 this idea of customer lifetime value. A relationship with the right referral partner could 5 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:30.019 be a game changer for any BEDB company. So what if you could reverse 6 00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:36.210 engineer these relationships at a moment's notice? Start a podcast, invite potential referral 7 00:00:36.250 --> 00:00:41.130 partners to be guests on your show and grow your referral network faster than ever? 8 00:00:41.170 --> 00:00:50.640 Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to be tob growth, 9 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:55.759 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, 10 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:59.600 like Gary Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from 11 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.759 the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with 12 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.269 professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches, leading 13 00:01:07.310 --> 00:01:12.150 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 14 00:01:12.230 --> 00:01:17.709 building the fastest growing BBB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 15 00:01:17.750 --> 00:01:21.299 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 16 00:01:21.420 --> 00:01:23.579 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 17 00:01:23.659 --> 00:01:27.540 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 18 00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:32.540 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attend 19 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:37.609 to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the 20 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:47.879 show. When you hear the words Customer Centricity, you probably think about putting 21 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.040 the customer first or going above and beyond for the customer. But in this 22 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:57.760 conversation on the BB growth show, customer centricity is about implementing a strategy driven 23 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:02.709 by customer lifetime value. It's a financial look at customer experience. Not all 24 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:07.670 customers are created equal, so we need to know where and how to invest 25 00:02:07.670 --> 00:02:10.189 in the right customers. My name is Ethan, but I host the CX 26 00:02:10.270 --> 00:02:15.389 series here on the show and my guests Sarah Toms of the Warton School at 27 00:02:15.389 --> 00:02:21.419 University of Pennsylvania, Co authored the customer centricity playbook. Here's our conversation. 28 00:02:21.419 --> 00:02:28.500 In any given company, for example yours, not all customers are created equal. 29 00:02:28.780 --> 00:02:30.530 So we need to know where, when and in whom we should be 30 00:02:30.610 --> 00:02:36.090 investing. Today's episode does something a little bit unique. Will put customer experience 31 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.330 in a financial context. Our guest entered the tech field around the rise of 32 00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:43.930 THECOM era and she found it a couple of software and tech companies at that 33 00:02:44.090 --> 00:02:46.680 time. For the past six and a half year she served in it director 34 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:51.719 roles at the Warton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Warton, of course, 35 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.400 is consistently ranked as one of the top business schools in the world and 36 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.590 in fact, US News and World Report has it at number one in the 37 00:02:58.629 --> 00:03:01.229 two thousand and twenty rankings. Just over a year ago she became the cofounder 38 00:03:01.310 --> 00:03:06.990 and Executive Director of Wart and interactive, where they're on a mission to transform 39 00:03:07.069 --> 00:03:10.430 education with interactive platforms and simulations. So I hope we'll get into that. 40 00:03:10.909 --> 00:03:15.900 And she and I have something surprising in common. We've both coauthored and Amazon 41 00:03:15.979 --> 00:03:21.219 number one best seller in the customer relations category. Her book is called the 42 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:27.569 customer centricity playbook. Sarah Tom's, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank 43 00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:30.689 you so much for having me. It's a real pleasure. Good I'm really 44 00:03:30.729 --> 00:03:35.729 excited to get into this customer centricity concept in the playbook in particular. But 45 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:39.050 we'll start with the definition of customer experience. What comes to mind when I 46 00:03:39.090 --> 00:03:45.319 say that phrase to you. So for me, customer experience is really that 47 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:51.719 last inch or that last layer that the customer is really able you're surfacing all 48 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:55.909 of your expertise, your goodies, your your secret sauce to your customers and 49 00:03:55.990 --> 00:04:00.669 it's really what the customers get to touch and experience. I hate to use 50 00:04:00.710 --> 00:04:04.310 see the word experience in the definition, but it really is how you kind 51 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:08.909 of bring it together and it's sort of when you think about like an artist 52 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:13.259 putting together an oil painting and all those layers that go into really what that 53 00:04:13.500 --> 00:04:16.500 final asthetic might be. I love it. It's got that front of House 54 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:20.379 component, but the way that you drew in the painting at the end there 55 00:04:20.540 --> 00:04:24.060 is like there's so much in there and a lot of it you can't see. 56 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:27.529 It's the foundation for what comes over the top of it. So good, 57 00:04:27.610 --> 00:04:30.290 love it. I'm going to resident have you define customer centricity. I'm 58 00:04:30.329 --> 00:04:33.689 just going to read the definition and it's kind of breaks into three parts and 59 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:36.449 then have you just kind of break that down a little bit and give a 60 00:04:36.490 --> 00:04:42.160 little bit more context to it. So in Customer Centricity, your coauthor Peter 61 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.959 Fader, define customer centricity as a strategy that aligns the development and delivery of 62 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:53.430 a company's products and services with the current and future needs of its highest valued 63 00:04:53.550 --> 00:04:59.670 customers in order to maximize these customers long term financial value to the firm. 64 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:01.910 Kind of break down those elements a little bit. It's a strategy. There's 65 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:08.500 alignment, are current and future needs of highest value customers and then maximizing that 66 00:05:08.660 --> 00:05:14.699 over time. Yeah, so one of the biggest shifts with customer centricity compared 67 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:19.620 to the more traditional approaches to not just marketing but also financial strategy and management 68 00:05:20.180 --> 00:05:25.449 is really shifting your focus from looking in the rearview mirror, which is, 69 00:05:25.810 --> 00:05:29.170 how did we do last month? What are our profits, what were our 70 00:05:29.209 --> 00:05:32.089 customers doing in the last quarter of the last year, etc. So really 71 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:35.959 looking at kind of the top line or bottom line. And what customer centricity 72 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:40.639 does is it now? It makes you look through the front when shield it's 73 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:45.920 leveraging all of that amazing past data with respect your customers and then thinking about 74 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.389 how you can leverage those insights and draw ideas for how those customers are going 75 00:05:50.430 --> 00:05:55.230 to perform, those ones that stay with you, how future customers who come 76 00:05:55.350 --> 00:06:00.189 to you, who who behave similarly to your existing customers, how they might 77 00:06:00.350 --> 00:06:03.379 perform, and then how do you align all of your tactics and functions and 78 00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:11.500 other strategic goals so that you're you're investing appropriately depending on the lifetime value of 79 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:15.779 those individual customers? I would also say that, you know, I've been 80 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:19.889 working with Pete now for six years. We've developed an incredibly deep relationship with 81 00:06:20.089 --> 00:06:25.810 respect to customer centricity. You know, obviously coofering a book together, creating 82 00:06:25.810 --> 00:06:30.649 a really elaborate simulation together, and I would venture to guess that his definition 83 00:06:30.689 --> 00:06:34.079 from his first book to now has also changed, just like we all, 84 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:39.680 you know, evolve over time. And he would also be saying that it's 85 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.959 not just all about your high value customers, it's what you do with those, 86 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:46.120 those mid and low tier as well. That's all part of the customer 87 00:06:46.189 --> 00:06:50.029 centric strategy just as much as what you're doing with your high value customers. 88 00:06:50.069 --> 00:06:53.629 Yeah, I love it. Again, for folks listening, the book is 89 00:06:53.709 --> 00:06:58.310 called the customer centricity playbook and there's a really great passage in there about this 90 00:06:58.750 --> 00:07:03.579 customer portfolio, which which kind of speak specifically to that evolution of the definition 91 00:07:03.660 --> 00:07:06.459 that you just offered. There's that. You know, it's more than just 92 00:07:06.620 --> 00:07:10.459 the high value, it's everybody, and so how do we manage this together? 93 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:13.660 So before we go on, I would love for you to knock down 94 00:07:13.699 --> 00:07:17.009 because I'm sure this book just in the title and in the phrase Customer Centricity, 95 00:07:17.410 --> 00:07:20.930 you know there are a lot of misconceptions and myths around it when the 96 00:07:21.050 --> 00:07:24.889 first book was released and I'm sure some of those were kind of cast on 97 00:07:25.129 --> 00:07:28.449 to this because of a similar title. What are some common miss and miss 98 00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:34.399 misconceptions when people hear customer centricity? Yeah, and people actually say this all 99 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:39.639 the time. He wished that he had used a better term than customer centricity, 100 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.759 because the problem is, as it sounds like, it's just putting the 101 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:46.430 customer, the customer, at the center of everything you're doing, and customer 102 00:07:46.509 --> 00:07:51.069 centricity is really quite the opposite. Will Not be opposite. But the first 103 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:58.550 thing about customer centricity is really recognizing and celebrating Heterogeneity, recognizing that not every 104 00:07:58.660 --> 00:08:03.339 customer comes to you the same way, with the same Batin propensities. You 105 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:07.819 know their propensity to say, to spend their love for you. They're willingness 106 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:11.819 to go through the gates of hell. You'll hear pee say that quite frequently. 107 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:18.689 So customer centricity is not about customer service, it's not about amazing customer 108 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:22.449 experience, even it collaborates with those ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but 109 00:08:22.529 --> 00:08:30.199 it really is about being more data driven and surrounding your your strategy and your 110 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:35.759 values around this idea of customer lifetime value, really starting with CLB and Hetergeneity 111 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.039 in the first place. Love it for fost so don't have a clear picture 112 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.509 of their own CLV, or ltvs, it's sometimes referred to. Were talking 113 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.149 about lifetime value of the customer. We're a couple easy ways to get going 114 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:52.950 in getting a good approximation of your of your CLV. Absolutely it's it's Sim 115 00:08:54.110 --> 00:09:00.820 people as beginning with understanding recency, frequency and monetary value, the old RFM. 116 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:05.779 So if you can start with sort of understanding how often your customers are 117 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.860 coming and spending with you, how much they're spending with you, and you 118 00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:13.049 know how when was the last time they came, this can really be the 119 00:09:13.129 --> 00:09:18.889 basis of the beginning of a model what it is with respect to Clb, 120 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:22.250 though, is you're then trying to see, okay, let's look into the 121 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:28.200 future and can we start to predict whether those customers are going to continue spending 122 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:33.879 at the same RFM based on sort of the predictors that other others like them 123 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.919 have been doing? There's a bit of statistical analysis in there. I will 124 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.110 also say that there are tremendous resources, open source resource sources out there as 125 00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:46.389 well, and we do speak about this in the book. You know this 126 00:09:46.669 --> 00:09:52.789 our model, that Pete has its open source. There are also new companies 127 00:09:52.830 --> 00:09:56.940 coming up all the time that are getting better at doing a CLB calculations. 128 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:05.100 Am I oversimplifying it to say that a recurring revenue model or subscription model? 129 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:07.210 It might be a little bit easier to do this, because you spoke to 130 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:13.730 say, see a grocery or a bookstore or not Amazon, or even Amazon 131 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:18.490 right like I go to Amazon a certain number of times. I haven't been 132 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:20.519 there in a certain while. When am I going to come back? And 133 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.519 mean that's kind of in that anstre you just offered. You know, if 134 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.559 someone is one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine a month recurring, how does 135 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.639 that differ in terms of is it easier to do lifetime value in that scenario? 136 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.429 Absolutely in fact, if you want to get very specific about this, 137 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:43.269 there are two different calculations use for subscription versus or nonsubscription models. So you're 138 00:10:43.350 --> 00:10:48.190 completely right there, Ethan. There is most certainly a problem. It's difficult 139 00:10:48.230 --> 00:10:50.860 to know, you know, is this customer who came and bought a cup 140 00:10:50.899 --> 00:10:52.460 of coffee from me yesterday going to come and buy that, you know, 141 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:56.700 another cup of coffee from me tomorrow? It's much, much easier if you 142 00:10:56.860 --> 00:11:01.500 know that a customer who has just called up and said I want to cancel 143 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:05.570 my service, you know that they have gone for sure. Versus somebody who 144 00:11:05.570 --> 00:11:07.250 came and bought a pair of jeans from you last season, are they going 145 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:11.370 to come in and buy, you know, their spring stuff from you in 146 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:16.730 the coming season? So it's most certainly more complex, but not impossible. 147 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:20.639 Awesome. I want to go quickly through a few just kind of jump out 148 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.679 ideas that I think will be interesting in triguing for people. I don't intend 149 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.279 to summarize this book, which I'm sure is a summary of years of work, 150 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.190 as you've already suggested, but I do want to get into a couple 151 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:35.990 of these ideas, so I'll just throw out us some words and just, 152 00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:39.470 you know, give me, give me your thoughts on that. Demographics and 153 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:46.190 Personas as antiquated and flawed. Yes, so this was a fun chapter to 154 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:50.820 write and our publisher and editor really loved it as well, because it was 155 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:56.059 just ideas that they hadn't even thought of in their day to day work and 156 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:58.700 ones that you know I I've been working now, you know, in the 157 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:03.490 Technology Industry for over twenty five years. We do use personas, for sure 158 00:12:03.649 --> 00:12:09.809 when we're developing software and APPS for our different types of customers and and it 159 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:13.570 is certainly flawed. It's you know, it's a very blunt instrument for what 160 00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:18.559 you're trying to do, given how much data we have and how quickly that 161 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.399 data shifts and changes. So a big part of your clv calculation is seeing 162 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.639 what happens to those clbs for each cohort over time, because that shifting and 163 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.470 changing. If you're working with a persona, that persona is less likely to 164 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:37.389 shift and change in line with that data. The other problem we have is 165 00:12:37.429 --> 00:12:39.389 humans. Is We're really flawed. You know, we look at each other, 166 00:12:39.470 --> 00:12:43.990 there's a lot of unconscious bias going on and we fill in the gaps, 167 00:12:43.149 --> 00:12:46.379 you know, and so we're saying, Oh, you know Debbie, 168 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:52.740 housewife, or you know Susan Professional, and that's supposed to represent an entire 169 00:12:52.820 --> 00:13:01.129 classification of customer. And is that cus customer representation really accurate? You know, 170 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:03.649 and I think if you were to go further and really explore who those 171 00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:07.769 customers are with the data itself, you're not going to come up with necessarily 172 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:15.039 somebody who adheres to a certain skin color or age or demographic or or, 173 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:20.840 you know whatever. So if someone listening is operating based on us, let's 174 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:26.519 see generic personas they cut their primary customer base and their prospect base into like 175 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:31.029 four stripes, right, like you just offered Susie, homemaker or something. 176 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:35.870 You know, what is one step that can be taken out of kind of 177 00:13:35.990 --> 00:13:43.539 generic blunt not particularly useful because it's so overly generalized. What's a step that 178 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:48.659 we can take out of that? Well, probably taking away the skin deep 179 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:52.740 aspects of those individuals that you're trying to represent in the persona like that. 180 00:13:52.899 --> 00:13:56.769 That really is, you know, the mistake, because what happens when you 181 00:13:56.970 --> 00:14:03.090 start to be attractive to a whole new demographic and you're now you're actually cutting 182 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:07.409 yourself short. So I would say step one just generalize that. If you 183 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:11.159 need to use a persona, call it persona a and make sure that you're 184 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:16.440 explicit with what persona a represents. Like maybe there are characteristics around gender and 185 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.279 age that do fall into that, that do happen to correlate that persona, 186 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:26.990 and that's fine, but don't necessarily then create this entire personality around it that 187 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:30.710 isn't going to shift and change with the data. So that would be my 188 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:35.269 number one suggestion. Great, they're and you've already kind of referred to this, 189 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:37.590 but I love to talk about it more because it's such a big and 190 00:14:37.669 --> 00:14:43.179 important idea in it underpins the entire customer centricity approach, which is there is 191 00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:46.100 no such thing as, and I'm air quoting here, the customer, and 192 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.700 you already did a drive by, but I think it's worth doubling back on. 193 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:52.610 Yeah, we hear this all the time and those are really put together 194 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:56.690 to dirty words for me and Peter. We don't like to hear because, 195 00:14:56.809 --> 00:15:01.409 again, it's generalizing. It's basically saying we're going to come all this amazing 196 00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:05.129 customer data together and we're just going to come up with an average. And 197 00:15:05.289 --> 00:15:09.279 we know that when we take averages of anything that it represents nothing. So 198 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.679 if you're taking an average of a clb which is really really high and one 199 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.879 that's really really low, you're going to end up in the middle and you're 200 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:22.470 not going to really be aligning your strategies and your efforts to either. So 201 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:26.830 that's what we're talking about, is getting way more local, laser focused about 202 00:15:26.870 --> 00:15:33.389 what you're doing when you're investing in your different strategies. So the customer should 203 00:15:33.389 --> 00:15:37.220 not exist, and in fact Peter is worked with a number of industries and 204 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:41.179 companies where they've made it, you know, actually having a swear jar set 205 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:45.779 up so that anybody who starts to refer to their customer has to stick a 206 00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:48.659 dollar in that jar. Nice. There's so many ways that that could be 207 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:52.409 used because I'm sure would fill up pretty quickly, especially is as a company's 208 00:15:52.450 --> 00:15:56.330 trying to make this cultural and practical shift in the way that they look at, 209 00:15:56.769 --> 00:16:02.289 generically speaking, their database. Last one here on this kind of words 210 00:16:02.370 --> 00:16:06.080 response. I thought one of the best stories in the book for me to 211 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:11.240 understand what customer centricity isn't isn't and some steps we can take going forward. 212 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.480 Was that starbucks example? Right? So, you know, to go back 213 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.110 to the myth and misconceptions like Oh, starbucks, of course their customer centric. 214 00:16:18.269 --> 00:16:23.070 BA write names on cups and you know they're very customer oriented. But 215 00:16:23.149 --> 00:16:27.350 that's not what this is about. Historically they hadn't been customer centric, but 216 00:16:27.429 --> 00:16:30.669 they'd made a few strides. Can you talk a little bit about how they 217 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:34.740 historically have not been customer centric and some of the stuff they're doing now that 218 00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:38.419 starts to fit that mold a little bit? Yeah, I know it's it's 219 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.899 great time the actually with that question. So I just had a conversation with 220 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:48.009 starbucks pre prior CMO, and she said that when Pete's first book came out, 221 00:16:48.049 --> 00:16:55.330 where he really did talk about how not customer centric storebucks has, basically 222 00:16:55.409 --> 00:16:57.049 starbucks was like, crap, what do we do with this? And she 223 00:16:57.129 --> 00:17:00.610 said I think we should pick up the phone and call him. He's right, 224 00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:04.200 let's start the conversation, and so that did start a number of conversations 225 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:10.039 to help starbucks along the way with becoming more customer centric. So where they 226 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.319 began was, yes, very friendly. You definitely feel like you know you're 227 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.829 being well taken care of in their stores, but when you go, let's 228 00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:22.789 say, from one on one city block to another, there's absolutely it's sort 229 00:17:22.829 --> 00:17:26.829 of like you're shaking an Edgra sketches you're walking that block. They have no 230 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:32.019 concept that you are a customer and how valuable you are and what you liked 231 00:17:32.019 --> 00:17:37.180 to purchase, etc. Etc. And then when they launched their loyalty program 232 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:41.059 they actually made a mistake in the beginning where they did not hook that loyalty 233 00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:47.250 to value. It was actually to that that frequency element of the RFM that 234 00:17:47.289 --> 00:17:49.809 I was talking about. So how many are you purchasing from us? Not 235 00:17:49.970 --> 00:17:53.329 Necessary, how much? And that was there. There, you know, 236 00:17:53.450 --> 00:17:57.329 big mistake that they did correct. There was a slight flipboard. Folks were 237 00:17:57.329 --> 00:18:02.640 a little bit upset and you probably remember when the if you're a starbucks purchaser, 238 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.400 where they did make that shift, and before that shift people would say, 239 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.200 Oh, can you just bring these up as separate purchases and that would 240 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:12.710 help with their loyalty. Now it really is tied to to their value, 241 00:18:12.910 --> 00:18:18.029 which is fantastic. Such a good example. This idea that you know your 242 00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:22.549 your most common store note actually knows you by name, they actually know your 243 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:26.380 drink, they greet you by name and it's this very relationship oriented thing. 244 00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:30.420 But you know, three blocks away or if you're, you know, traveling 245 00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:33.380 for Work and you're another starbucks, they don't have any ideas. So just 246 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:37.619 kind of closing that gap down such a good idea and there was such a 247 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:41.769 an easy example to understand. I loved it. So it's not just a 248 00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:47.609 playbook, it's also a manifesto. Talk about the manifesto. What motivated that? 249 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:52.410 Why create a manifesto around the movement? What are some of its primary 250 00:18:52.490 --> 00:18:57.880 elements? Yeah, so I talked about this and it really is one of 251 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:03.039 my favorite memories of writing the book with Peter. One thing about co authoring 252 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.559 a book, and I highly recommend it to anybody, because it really is 253 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.430 an opportunity to check your blind spots and to challenge one another on kind of 254 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:17.430 what you just sort of assume is the way to think. So so many 255 00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:21.509 conversations that happened along the way as we were writing the book, and one 256 00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:25.660 of the most memorable was when we hit the last chapter, which we really 257 00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:29.059 wanted to end on this sort of call to Action High Note. You know, 258 00:19:29.259 --> 00:19:33.859 and we recognize that we hadn't yet delved into everything that most happened in 259 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:38.650 the organization itself in order to become, you know, successful in their customer 260 00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:42.450 centric journey. So there is a culture element, there is a leadership and 261 00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:49.289 buy in and championship element, there's an approach to process change and, you 262 00:19:49.369 --> 00:19:52.079 know, making sure that you've got the support from me, even like a 263 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:57.319 project manager or program manager standpoint, because it is change management and action. 264 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.200 You know, when you're mo moving from product centricity to customer Centricity, there 265 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.640 has to be you know, into the weeds. WHO's managing the pieces of 266 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.549 data we need to chase and making sure that we've got a crm that can 267 00:20:10.589 --> 00:20:14.750 handle what we need, etc. Etc. There's a lot of work to 268 00:20:14.789 --> 00:20:18.190 be done and the first version of the chapter, Pete and I worked away 269 00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:22.019 at it and I remember sitting in his office and we kind of looked at 270 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.940 each other and we were just like this stinks, it's awful, it's not 271 00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:30.140 what we wanted, it's terrible. We want this call to action. And 272 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:34.619 so I have a very long commute home for Philadelphia and I was sitting there 273 00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:37.250 and thinking about it and thinking about it and I'm like, you know, 274 00:20:37.329 --> 00:20:42.130 what this reminds me of. Reminds me of when I started out in technology 275 00:20:42.289 --> 00:20:45.529 and just you know, we were so excited about what we you know, 276 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:51.759 what was coming our way in they with respect to the opportunity that thecom was 277 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.359 going to provide. And then in reality, what we were faced with when 278 00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:00.599 we were creating software and creating these amazing, amazing Internet technologies, was we 279 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.990 to follow these lawsy processes. And so we really have agile and the agile 280 00:21:06.069 --> 00:21:11.470 manifesto to thank for the big revolutionary changes that came to technology. And then, 281 00:21:11.710 --> 00:21:14.869 you know, quite frankly, or now everywhere you know, they're pervasive. 282 00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:18.430 So I was thinking about that and I'm like, you know, I 283 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:22.259 think a manifesto is what we need for customer centricity as well. I think 284 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:26.299 this is the time where, you know, people have short distensions pans. 285 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:32.619 We need something that is just easy to understand, easy to kind of sum 286 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:37.529 up what we're talking about in for simple points. And if folks look at 287 00:21:37.529 --> 00:21:40.930 these points and adopt these points, then they'll be well on their way. 288 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:44.970 And so I scribbled up a manifesto and kind of, you know, trapes 289 00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:48.200 my way across campus the next day and went into Pete's office and he's like 290 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.359 yes, this is it. So we started to work on the manifesto together 291 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.079 and we got to the point actually repeat texted me and he just test texted 292 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.589 me a couple days later. So we're screwed up and I'm like, oh 293 00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:03.390 no, what did we do now? So I called him right away and 294 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:06.990 he said, you know, I think this whole book should have been called 295 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:11.430 the customer centricity manifesto. We should have started with a manifesto. Of course, 296 00:22:11.470 --> 00:22:14.829 we were way too far along. We already had the cover of the 297 00:22:14.869 --> 00:22:18.339 book to signed and everything else, but by that point. But what we 298 00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:22.259 really hope at this manifesto is that it will become the call to action. 299 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:26.819 You know that we really envision for the final chapter. Awesome. I will 300 00:22:26.900 --> 00:22:32.450 drop the link to the website that has the manifesto and anyone can sign it. 301 00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.609 I recommend reading the book first so that you are very clear on what 302 00:22:36.690 --> 00:22:40.809 you're adopting, although the phrases around them are very clear in and of themselves, 303 00:22:40.849 --> 00:22:41.769 and we've already talked about a number of them. For example, the 304 00:22:41.849 --> 00:22:48.119 first point in the manifesto is customer heterogeneity over the average customer or for our 305 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:55.079 earlier conversation over the customer air quotes, right. So, so the language 306 00:22:55.079 --> 00:23:00.710 years really simple, but I'll drop that if you visit bombombcom forward slash podcast, 307 00:23:00.349 --> 00:23:03.109 I write a blog post for all of these and you can go visit 308 00:23:03.150 --> 00:23:06.869 there. I'll drop links to a lot of the things that we talked about 309 00:23:06.869 --> 00:23:08.869 in this conversation. So if you're listening and you want to check out the 310 00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:11.980 manifesto, it will be easy to access and of course it is a chapter 311 00:23:12.220 --> 00:23:15.539 in the book. So just you know, we did this a little bit 312 00:23:15.619 --> 00:23:18.460 earlier, but now that we have more context, you know, if someone's 313 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:22.099 listening and they're thinking this sounds great. I just read the manifesto. I 314 00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:26.779 signed it. I believe in these things. I wish we were thinking and 315 00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:32.690 working more this way inside my organization. Where have you seen it be successful? 316 00:23:32.809 --> 00:23:36.730 Like what are a few ways to get started for successful implementation? For 317 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:41.240 example, is this coming out of marketing or is this coming out of Admin 318 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.160 and finances? This coming out of a day AD to team? Is this 319 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.519 coming out at like we're where have you seen the movement, let's call it 320 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.319 this, this change management, is this new behavior in this new posture and 321 00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:00.589 practice? Where have you seen, it emerged from inside an organization for successful 322 00:24:00.589 --> 00:24:03.029 uptake, besides the obvious one that you need executive buy in at some point. 323 00:24:03.069 --> 00:24:07.869 Yeah, I mean this is by far my favorite question and in getting 324 00:24:07.910 --> 00:24:12.259 to interview so many great success stories like electronic arts and the La Dodgers for 325 00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:18.099 this book, a pattern really emerged to me, which was number one. 326 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.619 You have to start small, you know, and all of the beginning, 327 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:27.369 sort of those initial seeds for customer centricity all began with somebody having a gut 328 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:33.170 instinct that something wasn't quite right. So a great example is EA, where 329 00:24:33.170 --> 00:24:37.250 they were spending just cross the line, twenty percent on marketing. Didn't matter 330 00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:40.960 what it was, here's the money, go spend it, no idea if 331 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.960 you know it's doing what is supposed to be doing. And a few very, 332 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.400 I mean not necessarily senior, these were junior data analysts who said, 333 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.759 you know, I think we can just take a small amount of that and 334 00:24:52.869 --> 00:24:56.349 we can just do a very easy experiment and start to really understand how we're 335 00:24:56.349 --> 00:25:03.549 spending those marketing dollars. And that really became the nucleus of what drove it 336 00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:11.019 now drives their customer centric strategy. So first and former most identify a small 337 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.019 experiment that's measurable, that isn't going to, you know, lead to big 338 00:25:15.099 --> 00:25:19.339 issues if it fails. You know, you want to fail fast and fail 339 00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:22.890 quickly and fail small. Number two, you need the data. So making 340 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:26.730 sure that you've got support from either somebody on your you know, your data 341 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:32.529 analytics team. I even had a conversation with a friend of mine who created, 342 00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:36.599 you know, she's a small pottery. She makes her own pottery here 343 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:40.440 in the Westchester Pennsylvania area, and she just read my book. She's like, 344 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.440 I have so many questions. I'm like, okay, let's let's hear 345 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:47.079 them, Nancy. And her big thing was she has no data, you 346 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.720 know, and so we just very, very simply, we had, you 347 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.750 know, a thirty minute conversation about what she could start to map out, 348 00:25:52.950 --> 00:25:56.750 even in Excel, as a beginning point, because she basically treats all her 349 00:25:56.789 --> 00:26:00.269 customers the same. They're all highly valuable and she must give them all of 350 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.819 just as much time and just as much of her as and so, even 351 00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:10.460 though that's, you know, maybe a simplistic example, that can really be 352 00:26:10.539 --> 00:26:14.420 applied into any business. So I would say starting small and making sure you've 353 00:26:14.420 --> 00:26:19.930 got that data to both test your hypotheses and help to then grow from or 354 00:26:19.970 --> 00:26:26.369 incredibly important good recommendations. Really appreciate it and you know, I'm sure people 355 00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:29.130 are in various stages of this. When I think about where we are at 356 00:26:29.170 --> 00:26:33.039 bombomb you know we're doing some of these things well, some of them not 357 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.480 as well. We're not necessarily have a lot of good data and we use 358 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.720 it, but we're not necessarily using it exactly in this way. That's that's 359 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:45.200 prescribed. It's so I can imagine folks listening are all ranges from pottery to, 360 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.390 you know, Fortune One thousand companies that do have a full and proper 361 00:26:49.470 --> 00:26:53.789 data analytics function and it's just a matter of getting them coordinated in aligned. 362 00:26:53.950 --> 00:26:59.069 Let's switch gears a little bit. You're the cofounder and executive director of Warton 363 00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:03.460 Interactive. What was one of the sparks like, because you've been with wharton 364 00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:06.740 for five years at the time, what was one of the sparks to really 365 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:11.019 get this going? What kind of led to the cofounding of interactive? So 366 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:17.410 many things. So yeah, so I was brought on to the Warton school 367 00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:21.730 to really work with one of the things I'm very very proud of at Wharton 368 00:27:21.970 --> 00:27:26.369 is our culture of interactive teaching and learning. So there is not really a 369 00:27:26.769 --> 00:27:32.000 single class I can think of where that it's this passive experience where it sort 370 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:36.119 of stage on the stage. Our professors really, I think, are, 371 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.640 you know, there many reasons for why they are at the the best in 372 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.359 the world, but one is that they really give our students a chance to 373 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.950 roll up their slaves and experience the theory that's being taught in the classrooms. 374 00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:52.190 And some of the best ways to bring that theory to life and see it 375 00:27:52.309 --> 00:27:56.069 in practice is to create, sometimes simple, sometimes very elaborate, simulations and 376 00:27:56.630 --> 00:28:00.220 games that the students can interact with, where they can see the tradeoffs with 377 00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:04.900 decisionmaking and they can really practice in a safe environment. It's sort of like 378 00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:08.900 a flight simulator for business, if you will. So the team I was 379 00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:15.250 running before at the Warton school is called the learning lab and the alst junior 380 00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:18.450 learning lab, and we that team has been around since one thousand nine hundred 381 00:28:18.450 --> 00:28:22.329 and ninety nine and had created a number of really, you know, best 382 00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:26.200 in class business simulations over the course of time. And while I was there 383 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.480 I started to notice, you know, being sort of this outsider to the 384 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.559 higher education space, I started to notice the number of sort of impediments and 385 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.599 things that sort of didn't sit right with me from a technologists standpoint. Number 386 00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:45.910 one is just the complexity of the languages that you need and bringing together the 387 00:28:45.869 --> 00:28:52.430 expertise to actually create these these simulations is very, very hard and takes a 388 00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:55.430 long, long time and cost a lot of money. And so what it 389 00:28:55.470 --> 00:28:59.460 also does is it starts to create a US in them. So it's one 390 00:28:59.539 --> 00:29:03.460 thing being the Warton school or the Harvard Business School, etc. We have 391 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:06.900 the resources, but as I start to go around and talk to, you 392 00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:11.569 know, an other conferences and such another business schools, I started to realize 393 00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:14.849 that there really was like, you know, I was kind of talking to 394 00:29:15.009 --> 00:29:17.450 dead air, like it was like that's really nice area, you can do 395 00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:19.569 that at Warton. We just don't have, you know, the resources to 396 00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:23.319 be able to create something similarly, even though we have faculty who have tons 397 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:29.279 of great ideas and would love to be doing this. So expense, expertise, 398 00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.799 all these other things that sort of, you know, it's not a 399 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.359 democratic approach to education, which also doesn't sit well with me, and also 400 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.670 the University of Pennsylvania was founded by a quake. Are we really do believe 401 00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.789 in these, you know, these quaker values. So as I started to 402 00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:51.950 work, I developed an amazing relationship with Professor Ether Malik, who has written 403 00:29:52.269 --> 00:29:55.859 books on gaming. He brings in a lot of things, from VR to 404 00:29:56.019 --> 00:30:00.019 other Games into his classrooms and we started to work on a number of different 405 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:03.940 platforms, which meant that we were able to create elaborate, hyper realistic, 406 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:11.529 experiential learning that we could do actually quite inexpensively. And this, you know, 407 00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:15.529 this experience that we incubated and these things that we started to create at 408 00:30:15.529 --> 00:30:18.769 the learning lab, we realize that we really had something that we could, 409 00:30:18.930 --> 00:30:22.519 you know, expand and start to offer to the world, and so that's 410 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.640 what we've been doing. We decided to keep the learning lab focused on Warton 411 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.759 Faculty and what they're doing in Warton classes. We didn't want to kind of, 412 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.480 you know, take over any of that and make sure that that, 413 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:38.069 you know, remains preserved and Morton interactive has been created to develop these platforms 414 00:30:38.150 --> 00:30:44.029 that we can share, quite literally, with any educator all of the world. 415 00:30:44.269 --> 00:30:45.950 We're really, really excited about it. Awesome. That was one of 416 00:30:45.990 --> 00:30:51.500 my follow up questions is, who is the customer of Warton Interactive, you 417 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:56.259 know, is it it other educational institutions? Are Our companies taking this on? 418 00:30:56.380 --> 00:30:59.299 You know, as companies, are, you know, investing more in 419 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:03.579 development as a way to a have a better team, but be also probably 420 00:31:03.700 --> 00:31:07.930 increased for tension of the best employees? Like who is subscribing to, say, 421 00:31:08.450 --> 00:31:12.690 the customer centricity simulation in some of these other tools that you're providing? 422 00:31:12.730 --> 00:31:18.119 Yes, for sure. So really our customers, learners, learners and educators, 423 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.440 and I would say I mean cut the customer centricity simulation is a great 424 00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.640 case in point where this has become a catalyst for so many organizations. You 425 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:33.430 know, we played it with major social media organizations, to banks, to 426 00:31:33.869 --> 00:31:37.470 you name it. Are using a customer centristy simulation to really help as sort 427 00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:41.910 of bringing together cross functional teams, and that was the point I've got to 428 00:31:41.990 --> 00:31:47.859 make earlier with your question. Is another element you need in order to be 429 00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:51.740 successful as making sure that you have cross functional teams sitting at the table, 430 00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:53.700 and that's what we do with the simulation. We make sure that we set 431 00:31:53.740 --> 00:32:00.500 up these very diverse teams that are all working together through this daylong experience and 432 00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:05.329 by the end we're really talking about what specifically are the small experiments you want 433 00:32:05.369 --> 00:32:09.009 to run after this experience today? What impediments do you foresee? What are 434 00:32:09.049 --> 00:32:14.049 the internal stakeholders and the external stakeholders that you're going to need to reach out 435 00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:16.799 to and start to bring along to make sure that this journey is successful? 436 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:24.400 So absolutely our goal is to bring this sort of Warton approach to interactive learning, 437 00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:30.430 quite literally, to the world. Great before we wrap, I would 438 00:32:30.470 --> 00:32:34.670 love to know a little bit more on yours about your experience. You're involved 439 00:32:34.710 --> 00:32:37.910 with the women in text summit. Women in tech is something that we talk 440 00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:42.509 about here at Bombb and have done some, you know, smaller scale events 441 00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:45.579 around it because it's such an important thing. But Talk About Your Passion For 442 00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:51.579 Women in TAC like what is the problem, what are some solutions and what 443 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:54.539 has been your experience over the past twenty five years? Oh yeah, I 444 00:32:54.660 --> 00:33:00.009 mean just to try to sum up a question like that, yes, so, 445 00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:01.450 can't. Can you give me the suvery of the last forty five years? 446 00:33:01.970 --> 00:33:06.890 Absolutely, no problem. So, I mean here's one of the problem. 447 00:33:07.009 --> 00:33:10.529 Like, just looking statistically, we are the the number of women in 448 00:33:10.650 --> 00:33:15.880 tech is dropping every single year. You know. So I think we're hovering 449 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:19.880 around twenty three, twenty two percent and dropping. And one of the reasons, 450 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.119 one of the contributing factors to that, is it's not that there are 451 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:27.230 necessarily less women or women are leaving the tech field, which is happening, 452 00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:31.109 but so we're men for whatever reason. But it's because so many new tech 453 00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:36.789 jobs are coming on to the market place and we're just not got the numbers 454 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:38.950 that are helping to fill them where we need to be. And so what 455 00:33:39.150 --> 00:33:44.779 I really believe is that we have a marketing problem. We are not great 456 00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:51.500 at selling technology and technology focused jobs to our girls, to our middle school 457 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.769 girls. That's where we're seeing the dropout happening. So instead of glass ceilings, 458 00:33:54.849 --> 00:34:00.009 we're talking about glass walls. I think that we do have a problem 459 00:34:00.170 --> 00:34:04.730 where a I call it this Programmar, you know, this kind of culture 460 00:34:05.049 --> 00:34:08.650 of men who are coating a way and you know, and that's sort of 461 00:34:08.849 --> 00:34:15.280 like the face of what a lot of people believe being in a technology job 462 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:19.880 is about, when it's not. You know, there's such I mean basically, 463 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.440 if you don't know technology, you're kind of your kind of screwed in 464 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:27.909 this day and age. But if you're interested in this field. It is 465 00:34:28.070 --> 00:34:32.550 highly creative. It you can really redefine and keep redefining yourself as you become 466 00:34:32.670 --> 00:34:37.309 interested in different paths. I know I have an other women and it's a 467 00:34:37.469 --> 00:34:42.340 it's also an opportunity to really be able to have work life balanced. You 468 00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:45.139 know, I have four kids myself. I feel like I've been able to 469 00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:51.139 really, you know, hold my foot down on the gasp while also being 470 00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:54.690 able to balance work life as well. So lots and lots of problems, 471 00:34:54.809 --> 00:35:00.170 just as far as I think, just attracting women and girls into this amazing, 472 00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:06.809 dynamic field in the first place and marketing to the nothing next layer of 473 00:35:06.889 --> 00:35:12.760 immediate employment, but getting farther upstream than that so that there's awareness and passion 474 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.840 for years prior to completely. Yeah, and another problem is is a lack 475 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.510 of good role models. You know, you see the Lawnmsk to see apple 476 00:35:21.829 --> 00:35:24.510 see. You know, you see all these amazing, quite frankly, white 477 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:29.989 men in the field and you don't necessarily see the voices of the incredible women 478 00:35:30.190 --> 00:35:35.900 who are just doing also wonderful work and are innovators and are pushing the field 479 00:35:35.900 --> 00:35:38.380 forward. So I think that's the piece that we really need to start working 480 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:43.460 on really important observation. That's one of those things, you know, just 481 00:35:43.579 --> 00:35:46.139 going to the role models, that's one of those things that is easy just 482 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:50.889 to overlook or whatever, and this part of an unconscious bias that's built as 483 00:35:50.929 --> 00:35:52.929 like these are the kinds of people that do these things and get on these 484 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:57.329 magazine covers and, you know, get the feature stories written and that we 485 00:35:57.449 --> 00:36:00.210 pay attention to and that we model ourselves after. So really, really good 486 00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:05.360 stuff. They're relationships, Sarah, are our number one core values here at 487 00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.280 Bomba. So I always like to give you the opportunity for spending time with 488 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:12.760 us and sharing so many great insights. I love to give you the opportunity 489 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.440 to thank or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your 490 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:21.309 career and just to mention to a company that you feel has given you great 491 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:24.829 customer experience. Oh, great, great, great question. So I really 492 00:36:24.869 --> 00:36:29.789 want to thank Peter Fader, my co author. So, first of all, 493 00:36:30.469 --> 00:36:37.619 I am the first non wartant faculty to be given the incredible, delightful 494 00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:39.900 role of being able to coauthor a book with a warten faculty. So I 495 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:44.659 feel like, you know, he's allowed me to be a trailblazer for other 496 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.730 thought leaders to, you know, have their voices heard, and he has 497 00:36:47.769 --> 00:36:54.050 just been an incredibly thoughtful and caring and supportive co Creator in all the things 498 00:36:54.090 --> 00:37:00.889 that we've been working on together. So my hatsoft really to keep theater completely. 499 00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:05.719 As far as a company that I really enjoyed interfacing with, I'm not 500 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:10.760 necessarily the most stylish human being, given the how busy I am all the 501 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.429 time, and I have really enjoyed stitch fix. They are a company I 502 00:37:15.630 --> 00:37:20.469 just started to become a customer of earlier this year. They have up to 503 00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:24.590 my style game and I also really enjoyed listening to those a podcast with the 504 00:37:25.630 --> 00:37:30.539 founder on how I built this about how she really started from data and has 505 00:37:30.619 --> 00:37:37.219 built this company from spreadsheets on up, based on data about our customers and 506 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:40.980 their preferences and all that and and so far, so good. I really 507 00:37:42.099 --> 00:37:45.570 really love the product. Great example and, by the way, how I 508 00:37:45.730 --> 00:37:51.289 built this excellent, excellent podcast with so many great brands and companies on there 509 00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:54.809 and stitch fix. That's actually the second mention on this podcast of stitch fix 510 00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:59.920 for that blend of human touch and tech touch and blending those two really well 511 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:06.000 to give you a truly personalized or even personal experience. So really good recommendation 512 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.519 there, Sarah. How can someone connect with you with Wharton Interactive? Check 513 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:14.070 out the book. If people enjoyed this, how can they keep going? 514 00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:16.429 Oh well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. 515 00:38:16.590 --> 00:38:21.630 This has been such an enjoyable talk. Probably the best way is linkedin. 516 00:38:21.909 --> 00:38:24.909 If you're looking to connect with me. I'm also on twitter at Sarah e 517 00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:31.980 Tom's, and then I on our interactive dot Warton dot you pend Ed website. 518 00:38:32.059 --> 00:38:35.860 There is an opportunity where you can reach out to us there as well, 519 00:38:36.019 --> 00:38:37.699 and we'd love to hear you through any and all of those channels. 520 00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:42.289 Awesome, Sarah. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate what 521 00:38:42.409 --> 00:38:45.570 you're up to. I hope that this is the foundation of a movement where 522 00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:50.090 people can look back, just as you look back on the agile manifesto and 523 00:38:50.409 --> 00:38:52.769 what that meant to you at the time, that folks can look back and 524 00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:55.639 say I remember when. Really appreciate it so much. I'll link up everything 525 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.639 you mentioned there in the Post that goes up at bombombcom slash podcast. I 526 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:04.480 wish you a great afternoon and thank you again for your time likewise. Thank 527 00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:08.400 you. This is brilliant. Really appreciate it. Thanks again to Sarah for 528 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:13.550 walking us through the financial side of customer experience. I hope you enjoyed that 529 00:39:13.670 --> 00:39:19.550 conversation. If you want more conversations like this one, subscribe to the customer 530 00:39:19.630 --> 00:39:22.630 experience podcast. Of course, you can find it in your favorite podcast player, 531 00:39:22.869 --> 00:39:27.300 and you can also read write ups, check out video clips and so 532 00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:36.260 much more if you visit Bombombcom podcast. Thanks again for listening. We totally 533 00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:39.170 get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can 534 00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:43.849 be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB growth 535 00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:47.650 big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from 536 00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:53.360 an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. 537 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.039 That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three