Transcript
WEBVTT
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Customer centricity is not about customer service. It's not about amazing customer experience,
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even it certainly collaborates with those ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but it
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really is about being more data driven
and surrounding your strategy and your values around
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this idea of customer lifetime value.
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Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom.
You're listening to be tob growth,
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a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before,
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like Gary Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from
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the majority of our guests. That's
because the bulk of our interviews aren't with
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professional speakers and authors. Most of
our guests are in the trenches, leading
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sales and marketing teams. They're implementing
strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're
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building the fastest growing BBB companies in
the world. My name is James Carberry.
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I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands,
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and I'm also one of the cohosts
of this show. When we're not
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interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll
hear stories from behind the scenes of our
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own business. Will share the ups
and downs of our journey as we attend
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to take over the world. Just
getting well, maybe let's get into the
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show. When you hear the words
Customer Centricity, you probably think about putting
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the customer first or going above and
beyond for the customer. But in this
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conversation on the BB growth show,
customer centricity is about implementing a strategy driven
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by customer lifetime value. It's a
financial look at customer experience. Not all
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customers are created equal, so we
need to know where and how to invest
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in the right customers. My name
is Ethan, but I host the CX
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series here on the show and my
guests Sarah Toms of the Warton School at
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University of Pennsylvania, Co authored the
customer centricity playbook. Here's our conversation.
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In any given company, for example
yours, not all customers are created equal.
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So we need to know where,
when and in whom we should be
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investing. Today's episode does something a
little bit unique. Will put customer experience
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in a financial context. Our guest
entered the tech field around the rise of
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THECOM era and she found it a
couple of software and tech companies at that
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time. For the past six and
a half year she served in it director
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roles at the Warton School of the
University of Pennsylvania. Warton, of course,
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is consistently ranked as one of the
top business schools in the world and
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in fact, US News and World
Report has it at number one in the
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two thousand and twenty rankings. Just
over a year ago she became the cofounder
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and Executive Director of Wart and interactive, where they're on a mission to transform
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education with interactive platforms and simulations.
So I hope we'll get into that.
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And she and I have something surprising
in common. We've both coauthored and Amazon
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number one best seller in the customer
relations category. Her book is called the
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customer centricity playbook. Sarah Tom's,
welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank
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you so much for having me.
It's a real pleasure. Good I'm really
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excited to get into this customer centricity
concept in the playbook in particular. But
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we'll start with the definition of customer
experience. What comes to mind when I
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say that phrase to you. So
for me, customer experience is really that
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last inch or that last layer that
the customer is really able you're surfacing all
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of your expertise, your goodies,
your your secret sauce to your customers and
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it's really what the customers get to
touch and experience. I hate to use
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see the word experience in the definition, but it really is how you kind
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of bring it together and it's sort
of when you think about like an artist
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putting together an oil painting and all
those layers that go into really what that
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final asthetic might be. I love
it. It's got that front of House
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component, but the way that you
drew in the painting at the end there
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is like there's so much in there
and a lot of it you can't see.
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It's the foundation for what comes over
the top of it. So good,
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love it. I'm going to resident
have you define customer centricity. I'm
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just going to read the definition and
it's kind of breaks into three parts and
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then have you just kind of break
that down a little bit and give a
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little bit more context to it.
So in Customer Centricity, your coauthor Peter
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Fader, define customer centricity as a
strategy that aligns the development and delivery of
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a company's products and services with the
current and future needs of its highest valued
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customers in order to maximize these customers
long term financial value to the firm.
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Kind of break down those elements a
little bit. It's a strategy. There's
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alignment, are current and future needs
of highest value customers and then maximizing that
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over time. Yeah, so one
of the biggest shifts with customer centricity compared
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to the more traditional approaches to not
just marketing but also financial strategy and management
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is really shifting your focus from looking
in the rearview mirror, which is,
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how did we do last month?
What are our profits, what were our
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customers doing in the last quarter of
the last year, etc. So really
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looking at kind of the top line
or bottom line. And what customer centricity
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does is it now? It makes
you look through the front when shield it's
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leveraging all of that amazing past data
with respect your customers and then thinking about
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how you can leverage those insights and
draw ideas for how those customers are going
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to perform, those ones that stay
with you, how future customers who come
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to you, who who behave similarly
to your existing customers, how they might
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perform, and then how do you
align all of your tactics and functions and
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other strategic goals so that you're you're
investing appropriately depending on the lifetime value of
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those individual customers? I would also
say that, you know, I've been
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working with Pete now for six years. We've developed an incredibly deep relationship with
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respect to customer centricity. You know, obviously coofering a book together, creating
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a really elaborate simulation together, and
I would venture to guess that his definition
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from his first book to now has
also changed, just like we all,
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you know, evolve over time.
And he would also be saying that it's
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not just all about your high value
customers, it's what you do with those,
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those mid and low tier as well. That's all part of the customer
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centric strategy just as much as what
you're doing with your high value customers.
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Yeah, I love it. Again, for folks listening, the book is
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called the customer centricity playbook and there's
a really great passage in there about this
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customer portfolio, which which kind of
speak specifically to that evolution of the definition
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that you just offered. There's that. You know, it's more than just
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the high value, it's everybody,
and so how do we manage this together?
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So before we go on, I
would love for you to knock down
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because I'm sure this book just in
the title and in the phrase Customer Centricity,
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you know there are a lot of
misconceptions and myths around it when the
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first book was released and I'm sure
some of those were kind of cast on
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to this because of a similar title. What are some common miss and miss
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misconceptions when people hear customer centricity?
Yeah, and people actually say this all
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the time. He wished that he
had used a better term than customer centricity,
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because the problem is, as it
sounds like, it's just putting the
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customer, the customer, at the
center of everything you're doing, and customer
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centricity is really quite the opposite.
Will Not be opposite. But the first
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thing about customer centricity is really recognizing
and celebrating Heterogeneity, recognizing that not every
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customer comes to you the same way, with the same Batin propensities. You
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know their propensity to say, to
spend their love for you. They're willingness
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to go through the gates of hell. You'll hear pee say that quite frequently.
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So customer centricity is not about customer
service, it's not about amazing customer
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experience, even it collaborates with those
ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but
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it really is about being more data
driven and surrounding your your strategy and your
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values around this idea of customer lifetime
value, really starting with CLB and Hetergeneity
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in the first place. Love it
for fost so don't have a clear picture
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of their own CLV, or ltvs, it's sometimes referred to. Were talking
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about lifetime value of the customer.
We're a couple easy ways to get going
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in getting a good approximation of your
of your CLV. Absolutely it's it's Sim
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people as beginning with understanding recency,
frequency and monetary value, the old RFM.
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So if you can start with sort
of understanding how often your customers are
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coming and spending with you, how
much they're spending with you, and you
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know how when was the last time
they came, this can really be the
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basis of the beginning of a model
what it is with respect to Clb,
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though, is you're then trying to
see, okay, let's look into the
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future and can we start to predict
whether those customers are going to continue spending
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at the same RFM based on sort
of the predictors that other others like them
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have been doing? There's a bit
of statistical analysis in there. I will
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also say that there are tremendous resources, open source resource sources out there as
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well, and we do speak about
this in the book. You know this
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our model, that Pete has its
open source. There are also new companies
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coming up all the time that are
getting better at doing a CLB calculations.
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Am I oversimplifying it to say that
a recurring revenue model or subscription model?
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It might be a little bit easier
to do this, because you spoke to
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say, see a grocery or a
bookstore or not Amazon, or even Amazon
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right like I go to Amazon a
certain number of times. I haven't been
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there in a certain while. When
am I going to come back? And
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mean that's kind of in that anstre
you just offered. You know, if
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someone is one thousand nine hundred and
ninety nine a month recurring, how does
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that differ in terms of is it
easier to do lifetime value in that scenario?
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Absolutely in fact, if you want
to get very specific about this,
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there are two different calculations use for
subscription versus or nonsubscription models. So you're
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completely right there, Ethan. There
is most certainly a problem. It's difficult
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to know, you know, is
this customer who came and bought a cup
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of coffee from me yesterday going to
come and buy that, you know,
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another cup of coffee from me tomorrow? It's much, much easier if you
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know that a customer who has just
called up and said I want to cancel
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my service, you know that they
have gone for sure. Versus somebody who
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came and bought a pair of jeans
from you last season, are they going
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to come in and buy, you
know, their spring stuff from you in
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the coming season? So it's most
certainly more complex, but not impossible.
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Awesome. I want to go quickly
through a few just kind of jump out
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ideas that I think will be interesting
in triguing for people. I don't intend
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to summarize this book, which I'm
sure is a summary of years of work,
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as you've already suggested, but I
do want to get into a couple
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of these ideas, so I'll just
throw out us some words and just,
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you know, give me, give
me your thoughts on that. Demographics and
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Personas as antiquated and flawed. Yes, so this was a fun chapter to
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write and our publisher and editor really
loved it as well, because it was
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just ideas that they hadn't even thought
of in their day to day work and
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ones that you know I I've been
working now, you know, in the
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Technology Industry for over twenty five years. We do use personas, for sure
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when we're developing software and APPS for
our different types of customers and and it
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is certainly flawed. It's you know, it's a very blunt instrument for what
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you're trying to do, given how
much data we have and how quickly that
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data shifts and changes. So a
big part of your clv calculation is seeing
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what happens to those clbs for each
cohort over time, because that shifting and
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changing. If you're working with a
persona, that persona is less likely to
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shift and change in line with that
data. The other problem we have is
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humans. Is We're really flawed.
You know, we look at each other,
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there's a lot of unconscious bias going
on and we fill in the gaps,
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you know, and so we're saying, Oh, you know Debbie,
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housewife, or you know Susan Professional, and that's supposed to represent an entire
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classification of customer. And is that
cus customer representation really accurate? You know,
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and I think if you were to
go further and really explore who those
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customers are with the data itself,
you're not going to come up with necessarily
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somebody who adheres to a certain skin
color or age or demographic or or,
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you know whatever. So if someone
listening is operating based on us, let's
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see generic personas they cut their primary
customer base and their prospect base into like
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four stripes, right, like you
just offered Susie, homemaker or something.
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You know, what is one step
that can be taken out of kind of
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generic blunt not particularly useful because it's
so overly generalized. What's a step that
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we can take out of that?
Well, probably taking away the skin deep
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aspects of those individuals that you're trying
to represent in the persona like that.
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That really is, you know,
the mistake, because what happens when you
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start to be attractive to a whole
new demographic and you're now you're actually cutting
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yourself short. So I would say
step one just generalize that. If you
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need to use a persona, call
it persona a and make sure that you're
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explicit with what persona a represents.
Like maybe there are characteristics around gender and
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age that do fall into that,
that do happen to correlate that persona,
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and that's fine, but don't necessarily
then create this entire personality around it that
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isn't going to shift and change with
the data. So that would be my
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number one suggestion. Great, they're
and you've already kind of referred to this,
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but I love to talk about it
more because it's such a big and
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important idea in it underpins the entire
customer centricity approach, which is there is
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no such thing as, and I'm
air quoting here, the customer, and
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you already did a drive by,
but I think it's worth doubling back on.
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Yeah, we hear this all the
time and those are really put together
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to dirty words for me and Peter. We don't like to hear because,
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again, it's generalizing. It's basically
saying we're going to come all this amazing
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customer data together and we're just going
to come up with an average. And
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we know that when we take averages
of anything that it represents nothing. So
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if you're taking an average of a
clb which is really really high and one
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that's really really low, you're going
to end up in the middle and you're
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not going to really be aligning your
strategies and your efforts to either. So
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that's what we're talking about, is
getting way more local, laser focused about
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what you're doing when you're investing in
your different strategies. So the customer should
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not exist, and in fact Peter
is worked with a number of industries and
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companies where they've made it, you
know, actually having a swear jar set
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up so that anybody who starts to
refer to their customer has to stick a
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dollar in that jar. Nice.
There's so many ways that that could be
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used because I'm sure would fill up
pretty quickly, especially is as a company's
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trying to make this cultural and practical
shift in the way that they look at,
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generically speaking, their database. Last
one here on this kind of words
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response. I thought one of the
best stories in the book for me to
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understand what customer centricity isn't isn't and
some steps we can take going forward.
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Was that starbucks example? Right?
So, you know, to go back
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to the myth and misconceptions like Oh, starbucks, of course their customer centric.
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BA write names on cups and you
know they're very customer oriented. But
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that's not what this is about.
Historically they hadn't been customer centric, but
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they'd made a few strides. Can
you talk a little bit about how they
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historically have not been customer centric and
some of the stuff they're doing now that
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starts to fit that mold a little
bit? Yeah, I know it's it's
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great time the actually with that question. So I just had a conversation with
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starbucks pre prior CMO, and she
said that when Pete's first book came out,
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where he really did talk about how
not customer centric storebucks has, basically
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starbucks was like, crap, what
do we do with this? And she
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said I think we should pick up
the phone and call him. He's right,
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let's start the conversation, and so
that did start a number of conversations
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to help starbucks along the way with
becoming more customer centric. So where they
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began was, yes, very friendly. You definitely feel like you know you're
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being well taken care of in their
stores, but when you go, let's
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say, from one on one city
block to another, there's absolutely it's sort
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of like you're shaking an Edgra sketches
you're walking that block. They have no
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concept that you are a customer and
how valuable you are and what you liked
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to purchase, etc. Etc.
And then when they launched their loyalty program
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they actually made a mistake in the
beginning where they did not hook that loyalty
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to value. It was actually to
that that frequency element of the RFM that
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I was talking about. So how
many are you purchasing from us? Not
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Necessary, how much? And that
was there. There, you know,
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big mistake that they did correct.
There was a slight flipboard. Folks were
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a little bit upset and you probably
remember when the if you're a starbucks purchaser,
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where they did make that shift,
and before that shift people would say,
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Oh, can you just bring these
up as separate purchases and that would
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help with their loyalty. Now it
really is tied to to their value,
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which is fantastic. Such a good
example. This idea that you know your
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your most common store note actually knows
you by name, they actually know your
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drink, they greet you by name
and it's this very relationship oriented thing.
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But you know, three blocks away
or if you're, you know, traveling
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for Work and you're another starbucks,
they don't have any ideas. So just
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kind of closing that gap down such
a good idea and there was such a
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an easy example to understand. I
loved it. So it's not just a
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playbook, it's also a manifesto.
Talk about the manifesto. What motivated that?
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Why create a manifesto around the movement? What are some of its primary
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elements? Yeah, so I talked
about this and it really is one of
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my favorite memories of writing the book
with Peter. One thing about co authoring
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a book, and I highly recommend
it to anybody, because it really is
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an opportunity to check your blind spots
and to challenge one another on kind of
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what you just sort of assume is
the way to think. So so many
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conversations that happened along the way as
we were writing the book, and one
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of the most memorable was when we
hit the last chapter, which we really
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wanted to end on this sort of
call to Action High Note. You know,
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and we recognize that we hadn't yet
delved into everything that most happened in
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the organization itself in order to become, you know, successful in their customer
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centric journey. So there is a
culture element, there is a leadership and
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buy in and championship element, there's
an approach to process change and, you
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know, making sure that you've got
the support from me, even like a
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project manager or program manager standpoint,
because it is change management and action.
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You know, when you're mo moving
from product centricity to customer Centricity, there
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has to be you know, into
the weeds. WHO's managing the pieces of
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data we need to chase and making
sure that we've got a crm that can
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handle what we need, etc.
Etc. There's a lot of work to
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be done and the first version of
the chapter, Pete and I worked away
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at it and I remember sitting in
his office and we kind of looked at
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each other and we were just like
this stinks, it's awful, it's not
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what we wanted, it's terrible.
We want this call to action. And
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so I have a very long commute
home for Philadelphia and I was sitting there
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and thinking about it and thinking about
it and I'm like, you know,
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what this reminds me of. Reminds
me of when I started out in technology
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and just you know, we were
so excited about what we you know,
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what was coming our way in they
with respect to the opportunity that thecom was
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going to provide. And then in
reality, what we were faced with when
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we were creating software and creating these
amazing, amazing Internet technologies, was we
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to follow these lawsy processes. And
so we really have agile and the agile
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manifesto to thank for the big revolutionary
changes that came to technology. And then,
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you know, quite frankly, or
now everywhere you know, they're pervasive.
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So I was thinking about that and
I'm like, you know, I
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think a manifesto is what we need
for customer centricity as well. I think
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this is the time where, you
know, people have short distensions pans.
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We need something that is just easy
to understand, easy to kind of sum
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up what we're talking about in for
simple points. And if folks look at
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these points and adopt these points,
then they'll be well on their way.
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And so I scribbled up a manifesto
and kind of, you know, trapes
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my way across campus the next day
and went into Pete's office and he's like
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yes, this is it. So
we started to work on the manifesto together
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and we got to the point actually
repeat texted me and he just test texted
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me a couple days later. So
we're screwed up and I'm like, oh
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no, what did we do now? So I called him right away and
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he said, you know, I
think this whole book should have been called
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the customer centricity manifesto. We should
have started with a manifesto. Of course,
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we were way too far along.
We already had the cover of the
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book to signed and everything else,
but by that point. But what we
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really hope at this manifesto is that
it will become the call to action.
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You know that we really envision for
the final chapter. Awesome. I will
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drop the link to the website that
has the manifesto and anyone can sign it.
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I recommend reading the book first so
that you are very clear on what
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you're adopting, although the phrases around
them are very clear in and of themselves,
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and we've already talked about a number
of them. For example, the
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first point in the manifesto is customer
heterogeneity over the average customer or for our
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earlier conversation over the customer air quotes, right. So, so the language
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years really simple, but I'll drop
that if you visit bombombcom forward slash podcast,
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I write a blog post for all
of these and you can go visit
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there. I'll drop links to a
lot of the things that we talked about
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in this conversation. So if you're
listening and you want to check out the
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manifesto, it will be easy to
access and of course it is a chapter
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in the book. So just you
know, we did this a little bit
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earlier, but now that we have
more context, you know, if someone's
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listening and they're thinking this sounds great. I just read the manifesto. I
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signed it. I believe in these
things. I wish we were thinking and
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working more this way inside my organization. Where have you seen it be successful?
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Like what are a few ways to
get started for successful implementation? For
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example, is this coming out of
marketing or is this coming out of Admin
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and finances? This coming out of
a day AD to team? Is this
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coming out at like we're where have
you seen the movement, let's call it
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this, this change management, is
this new behavior in this new posture and
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practice? Where have you seen,
it emerged from inside an organization for successful
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uptake, besides the obvious one that
you need executive buy in at some point.
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Yeah, I mean this is by
far my favorite question and in getting
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to interview so many great success stories
like electronic arts and the La Dodgers for
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this book, a pattern really emerged
to me, which was number one.
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You have to start small, you
know, and all of the beginning,
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sort of those initial seeds for customer
centricity all began with somebody having a gut
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instinct that something wasn't quite right.
So a great example is EA, where
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they were spending just cross the line, twenty percent on marketing. Didn't matter
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what it was, here's the money, go spend it, no idea if
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you know it's doing what is supposed
to be doing. And a few very,
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I mean not necessarily senior, these
were junior data analysts who said,
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you know, I think we can
just take a small amount of that and
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we can just do a very easy
experiment and start to really understand how we're
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spending those marketing dollars. And that
really became the nucleus of what drove it
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now drives their customer centric strategy.
So first and former most identify a small
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experiment that's measurable, that isn't going
to, you know, lead to big
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issues if it fails. You know, you want to fail fast and fail
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quickly and fail small. Number two, you need the data. So making
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sure that you've got support from either
somebody on your you know, your data
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analytics team. I even had a
conversation with a friend of mine who created,
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you know, she's a small pottery. She makes her own pottery here
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in the Westchester Pennsylvania area, and
she just read my book. She's like,
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I have so many questions. I'm
like, okay, let's let's hear
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them, Nancy. And her big
thing was she has no data, you
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know, and so we just very, very simply, we had, you
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know, a thirty minute conversation about
what she could start to map out,
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even in Excel, as a beginning
point, because she basically treats all her
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customers the same. They're all highly
valuable and she must give them all of
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just as much time and just as
much of her as and so, even
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though that's, you know, maybe
a simplistic example, that can really be
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applied into any business. So I
would say starting small and making sure you've
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got that data to both test your
hypotheses and help to then grow from or
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incredibly important good recommendations. Really appreciate
it and you know, I'm sure people
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are in various stages of this.
When I think about where we are at
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bombomb you know we're doing some of
these things well, some of them not
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as well. We're not necessarily have
a lot of good data and we use
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it, but we're not necessarily using
it exactly in this way. That's that's
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prescribed. It's so I can imagine
folks listening are all ranges from pottery to,
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you know, Fortune One thousand companies
that do have a full and proper
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data analytics function and it's just a
matter of getting them coordinated in aligned.
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Let's switch gears a little bit.
You're the cofounder and executive director of Warton
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Interactive. What was one of the
sparks like, because you've been with wharton
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for five years at the time,
what was one of the sparks to really
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get this going? What kind of
led to the cofounding of interactive? So
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many things. So yeah, so
I was brought on to the Warton school
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to really work with one of the
things I'm very very proud of at Wharton
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is our culture of interactive teaching and
learning. So there is not really a
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single class I can think of where
that it's this passive experience where it sort
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of stage on the stage. Our
professors really, I think, are,
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you know, there many reasons for
why they are at the the best in
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the world, but one is that
they really give our students a chance to
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roll up their slaves and experience the
theory that's being taught in the classrooms.
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And some of the best ways to
bring that theory to life and see it
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in practice is to create, sometimes
simple, sometimes very elaborate, simulations and
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games that the students can interact with, where they can see the tradeoffs with
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decisionmaking and they can really practice in
a safe environment. It's sort of like
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a flight simulator for business, if
you will. So the team I was
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running before at the Warton school is
called the learning lab and the alst junior
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learning lab, and we that team
has been around since one thousand nine hundred
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and ninety nine and had created a
number of really, you know, best
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in class business simulations over the course
of time. And while I was there
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I started to notice, you know, being sort of this outsider to the
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higher education space, I started to
notice the number of sort of impediments and
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things that sort of didn't sit right
with me from a technologists standpoint. Number
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one is just the complexity of the
languages that you need and bringing together the
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expertise to actually create these these simulations
is very, very hard and takes a
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long, long time and cost a
lot of money. And so what it
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also does is it starts to create
a US in them. So it's one
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thing being the Warton school or the
Harvard Business School, etc. We have
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the resources, but as I start
to go around and talk to, you
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know, an other conferences and such
another business schools, I started to realize
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that there really was like, you
know, I was kind of talking to
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dead air, like it was like
that's really nice area, you can do
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that at Warton. We just don't
have, you know, the resources to
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be able to create something similarly,
even though we have faculty who have tons
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of great ideas and would love to
be doing this. So expense, expertise,
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all these other things that sort of, you know, it's not a
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democratic approach to education, which also
doesn't sit well with me, and also
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the University of Pennsylvania was founded by
a quake. Are we really do believe
401
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in these, you know, these
quaker values. So as I started to
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work, I developed an amazing relationship
with Professor Ether Malik, who has written
403
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books on gaming. He brings in
a lot of things, from VR to
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other Games into his classrooms and we
started to work on a number of different
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platforms, which meant that we were
able to create elaborate, hyper realistic,
406
00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:11.529
experiential learning that we could do actually
quite inexpensively. And this, you know,
407
00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:15.529
this experience that we incubated and these
things that we started to create at
408
00:30:15.529 --> 00:30:18.769
the learning lab, we realize that
we really had something that we could,
409
00:30:18.930 --> 00:30:22.519
you know, expand and start to
offer to the world, and so that's
410
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.640
what we've been doing. We decided
to keep the learning lab focused on Warton
411
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.759
Faculty and what they're doing in Warton
classes. We didn't want to kind of,
412
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.480
you know, take over any of
that and make sure that that,
413
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:38.069
you know, remains preserved and Morton
interactive has been created to develop these platforms
414
00:30:38.150 --> 00:30:44.029
that we can share, quite literally, with any educator all of the world.
415
00:30:44.269 --> 00:30:45.950
We're really, really excited about it. Awesome. That was one of
416
00:30:45.990 --> 00:30:51.500
my follow up questions is, who
is the customer of Warton Interactive, you
417
00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:56.259
know, is it it other educational
institutions? Are Our companies taking this on?
418
00:30:56.380 --> 00:30:59.299
You know, as companies, are, you know, investing more in
419
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:03.579
development as a way to a have
a better team, but be also probably
420
00:31:03.700 --> 00:31:07.930
increased for tension of the best employees? Like who is subscribing to, say,
421
00:31:08.450 --> 00:31:12.690
the customer centricity simulation in some of
these other tools that you're providing?
422
00:31:12.730 --> 00:31:18.119
Yes, for sure. So really
our customers, learners, learners and educators,
423
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.440
and I would say I mean cut
the customer centricity simulation is a great
424
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.640
case in point where this has become
a catalyst for so many organizations. You
425
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:33.430
know, we played it with major
social media organizations, to banks, to
426
00:31:33.869 --> 00:31:37.470
you name it. Are using a
customer centristy simulation to really help as sort
427
00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:41.910
of bringing together cross functional teams,
and that was the point I've got to
428
00:31:41.990 --> 00:31:47.859
make earlier with your question. Is
another element you need in order to be
429
00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:51.740
successful as making sure that you have
cross functional teams sitting at the table,
430
00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:53.700
and that's what we do with the
simulation. We make sure that we set
431
00:31:53.740 --> 00:32:00.500
up these very diverse teams that are
all working together through this daylong experience and
432
00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:05.329
by the end we're really talking about
what specifically are the small experiments you want
433
00:32:05.369 --> 00:32:09.009
to run after this experience today?
What impediments do you foresee? What are
434
00:32:09.049 --> 00:32:14.049
the internal stakeholders and the external stakeholders
that you're going to need to reach out
435
00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:16.799
to and start to bring along to
make sure that this journey is successful?
436
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:24.400
So absolutely our goal is to bring
this sort of Warton approach to interactive learning,
437
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:30.430
quite literally, to the world.
Great before we wrap, I would
438
00:32:30.470 --> 00:32:34.670
love to know a little bit more
on yours about your experience. You're involved
439
00:32:34.710 --> 00:32:37.910
with the women in text summit.
Women in tech is something that we talk
440
00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:42.509
about here at Bombb and have done
some, you know, smaller scale events
441
00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:45.579
around it because it's such an important
thing. But Talk About Your Passion For
442
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:51.579
Women in TAC like what is the
problem, what are some solutions and what
443
00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:54.539
has been your experience over the past
twenty five years? Oh yeah, I
444
00:32:54.660 --> 00:33:00.009
mean just to try to sum up
a question like that, yes, so,
445
00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:01.450
can't. Can you give me the
suvery of the last forty five years?
446
00:33:01.970 --> 00:33:06.890
Absolutely, no problem. So,
I mean here's one of the problem.
447
00:33:07.009 --> 00:33:10.529
Like, just looking statistically, we
are the the number of women in
448
00:33:10.650 --> 00:33:15.880
tech is dropping every single year.
You know. So I think we're hovering
449
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:19.880
around twenty three, twenty two percent
and dropping. And one of the reasons,
450
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.119
one of the contributing factors to that, is it's not that there are
451
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:27.230
necessarily less women or women are leaving
the tech field, which is happening,
452
00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:31.109
but so we're men for whatever reason. But it's because so many new tech
453
00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:36.789
jobs are coming on to the market
place and we're just not got the numbers
454
00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:38.950
that are helping to fill them where
we need to be. And so what
455
00:33:39.150 --> 00:33:44.779
I really believe is that we have
a marketing problem. We are not great
456
00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:51.500
at selling technology and technology focused jobs
to our girls, to our middle school
457
00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.769
girls. That's where we're seeing the
dropout happening. So instead of glass ceilings,
458
00:33:54.849 --> 00:34:00.009
we're talking about glass walls. I
think that we do have a problem
459
00:34:00.170 --> 00:34:04.730
where a I call it this Programmar, you know, this kind of culture
460
00:34:05.049 --> 00:34:08.650
of men who are coating a way
and you know, and that's sort of
461
00:34:08.849 --> 00:34:15.280
like the face of what a lot
of people believe being in a technology job
462
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:19.880
is about, when it's not.
You know, there's such I mean basically,
463
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.440
if you don't know technology, you're
kind of your kind of screwed in
464
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:27.909
this day and age. But if
you're interested in this field. It is
465
00:34:28.070 --> 00:34:32.550
highly creative. It you can really
redefine and keep redefining yourself as you become
466
00:34:32.670 --> 00:34:37.309
interested in different paths. I know
I have an other women and it's a
467
00:34:37.469 --> 00:34:42.340
it's also an opportunity to really be
able to have work life balanced. You
468
00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:45.139
know, I have four kids myself. I feel like I've been able to
469
00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:51.139
really, you know, hold my
foot down on the gasp while also being
470
00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:54.690
able to balance work life as well. So lots and lots of problems,
471
00:34:54.809 --> 00:35:00.170
just as far as I think,
just attracting women and girls into this amazing,
472
00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:06.809
dynamic field in the first place and
marketing to the nothing next layer of
473
00:35:06.889 --> 00:35:12.760
immediate employment, but getting farther upstream
than that so that there's awareness and passion
474
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.840
for years prior to completely. Yeah, and another problem is is a lack
475
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.510
of good role models. You know, you see the Lawnmsk to see apple
476
00:35:21.829 --> 00:35:24.510
see. You know, you see
all these amazing, quite frankly, white
477
00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:29.989
men in the field and you don't
necessarily see the voices of the incredible women
478
00:35:30.190 --> 00:35:35.900
who are just doing also wonderful work
and are innovators and are pushing the field
479
00:35:35.900 --> 00:35:38.380
forward. So I think that's the
piece that we really need to start working
480
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:43.460
on really important observation. That's one
of those things, you know, just
481
00:35:43.579 --> 00:35:46.139
going to the role models, that's
one of those things that is easy just
482
00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:50.889
to overlook or whatever, and this
part of an unconscious bias that's built as
483
00:35:50.929 --> 00:35:52.929
like these are the kinds of people
that do these things and get on these
484
00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:57.329
magazine covers and, you know,
get the feature stories written and that we
485
00:35:57.449 --> 00:36:00.210
pay attention to and that we model
ourselves after. So really, really good
486
00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:05.360
stuff. They're relationships, Sarah,
are our number one core values here at
487
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.280
Bomba. So I always like to
give you the opportunity for spending time with
488
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:12.760
us and sharing so many great insights. I love to give you the opportunity
489
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.440
to thank or mention someone who's had
a positive impact on your life or your
490
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:21.309
career and just to mention to a
company that you feel has given you great
491
00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:24.829
customer experience. Oh, great,
great, great question. So I really
492
00:36:24.869 --> 00:36:29.789
want to thank Peter Fader, my
co author. So, first of all,
493
00:36:30.469 --> 00:36:37.619
I am the first non wartant faculty
to be given the incredible, delightful
494
00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:39.900
role of being able to coauthor a
book with a warten faculty. So I
495
00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:44.659
feel like, you know, he's
allowed me to be a trailblazer for other
496
00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.730
thought leaders to, you know,
have their voices heard, and he has
497
00:36:47.769 --> 00:36:54.050
just been an incredibly thoughtful and caring
and supportive co Creator in all the things
498
00:36:54.090 --> 00:37:00.889
that we've been working on together.
So my hatsoft really to keep theater completely.
499
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:05.719
As far as a company that I
really enjoyed interfacing with, I'm not
500
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:10.760
necessarily the most stylish human being,
given the how busy I am all the
501
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.429
time, and I have really enjoyed
stitch fix. They are a company I
502
00:37:15.630 --> 00:37:20.469
just started to become a customer of
earlier this year. They have up to
503
00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:24.590
my style game and I also really
enjoyed listening to those a podcast with the
504
00:37:25.630 --> 00:37:30.539
founder on how I built this about
how she really started from data and has
505
00:37:30.619 --> 00:37:37.219
built this company from spreadsheets on up, based on data about our customers and
506
00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:40.980
their preferences and all that and and
so far, so good. I really
507
00:37:42.099 --> 00:37:45.570
really love the product. Great example
and, by the way, how I
508
00:37:45.730 --> 00:37:51.289
built this excellent, excellent podcast with
so many great brands and companies on there
509
00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:54.809
and stitch fix. That's actually the
second mention on this podcast of stitch fix
510
00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:59.920
for that blend of human touch and
tech touch and blending those two really well
511
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:06.000
to give you a truly personalized or
even personal experience. So really good recommendation
512
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.519
there, Sarah. How can someone
connect with you with Wharton Interactive? Check
513
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:14.070
out the book. If people enjoyed
this, how can they keep going?
514
00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:16.429
Oh well, first of all,
thank you so much for having me.
515
00:38:16.590 --> 00:38:21.630
This has been such an enjoyable talk. Probably the best way is linkedin.
516
00:38:21.909 --> 00:38:24.909
If you're looking to connect with me. I'm also on twitter at Sarah e
517
00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:31.980
Tom's, and then I on our
interactive dot Warton dot you pend Ed website.
518
00:38:32.059 --> 00:38:35.860
There is an opportunity where you can
reach out to us there as well,
519
00:38:36.019 --> 00:38:37.699
and we'd love to hear you through
any and all of those channels.
520
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:42.289
Awesome, Sarah. Thank you so
much for your time. Really appreciate what
521
00:38:42.409 --> 00:38:45.570
you're up to. I hope that
this is the foundation of a movement where
522
00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:50.090
people can look back, just as
you look back on the agile manifesto and
523
00:38:50.409 --> 00:38:52.769
what that meant to you at the
time, that folks can look back and
524
00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:55.639
say I remember when. Really appreciate
it so much. I'll link up everything
525
00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.639
you mentioned there in the Post that
goes up at bombombcom slash podcast. I
526
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:04.480
wish you a great afternoon and thank
you again for your time likewise. Thank
527
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:08.400
you. This is brilliant. Really
appreciate it. Thanks again to Sarah for
528
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:13.550
walking us through the financial side of
customer experience. I hope you enjoyed that
529
00:39:13.670 --> 00:39:19.550
conversation. If you want more conversations
like this one, subscribe to the customer
530
00:39:19.630 --> 00:39:22.630
experience podcast. Of course, you
can find it in your favorite podcast player,
531
00:39:22.869 --> 00:39:27.300
and you can also read write ups, check out video clips and so
532
00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:36.260
much more if you visit Bombombcom podcast. Thanks again for listening. We totally
533
00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:39.170
get it. We publish a ton
of content on this podcast and it can
534
00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:43.849
be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB growth
535
00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:47.650
big three, a no fluff email
that boils down our three biggest takeaways from
536
00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:53.360
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537
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