Nov. 14, 2019

#CX 29: 4 Things Every Customer Wishes You Understood About Them w/ Michael Redbord

In this episode of the #CX series, , Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with , GM of ServiceHub at  about owning bad experiences, unlocking the value of social proof, humanizing your service, and improving customer experience....

In this episode of the #CX series, Ethan Beute, Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with Michael Redbord, GM of ServiceHub at HubSpot about owning bad experiences, unlocking the value of social proof, humanizing your service, and improving customer experience.

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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.240 And often, you know, we choose to disagree with their reality. Customer 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:09.310 or something like that. Was Really happened? Productive, kind of, because 3 00:00:09.310 --> 00:00:13.109 their reality is the reality, their perception is their reception, is their experience. 4 00:00:14.949 --> 00:00:18.910 A relationship with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any 5 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:23.739 BEDB company. So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's 6 00:00:23.780 --> 00:00:29.300 notice, start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on your 7 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:34.939 show and grow your referral network faster than ever. Learn more at sweet fish 8 00:00:35.020 --> 00:00:44.369 Mediacom. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB 9 00:00:44.490 --> 00:00:48.609 leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and 10 00:00:48.649 --> 00:00:52.439 Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 11 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.880 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most 12 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.520 of our guests are in the trenches, leading sales and marketing teams. They're 13 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:06.989 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BBB companies 14 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:10.189 in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet 15 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:12.870 fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of 16 00:01:12.870 --> 00:01:17.870 the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 17 00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:21.579 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share 18 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:23.980 the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 19 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:34.409 Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Hey, thank 20 00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:38.290 you for clicking play on this episode of the Bab Growth Show. My name 21 00:01:38.329 --> 00:01:42.609 is Ethan, but I host the CX series here on the show, you're 22 00:01:42.609 --> 00:01:46.730 about to spend some time with Mike Red Board, a gentleman who spent a 23 00:01:46.930 --> 00:01:49.640 decade at hub spot and is currently the general manager of their service hub. 24 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:56.760 In our conversation he articulates so well and so clearly how to create and deliver 25 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.359 a better customer experience, how to change CX from a function to a feeling, 26 00:02:00.709 --> 00:02:05.709 how to accept that the customers reality is the reality, and how we 27 00:02:05.790 --> 00:02:08.389 can own up to bad experiences, how we need to unlock the value of 28 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:13.750 social proof to close down the trust gap, doing things that don't scale, 29 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:17.620 recording videos to humanize our experience, and so much more. So let's get 30 00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:23.340 into it. All right, if you want to learn how and why to 31 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:27.259 turn your best customers into your best marketers. You're in the right place. 32 00:02:27.259 --> 00:02:30.729 You're going to love this episode of the Customer Experience Podcast, because today's guest 33 00:02:31.090 --> 00:02:36.250 has spent nearly a decade at hub spot. Most of that time he served 34 00:02:36.289 --> 00:02:39.969 as a vice president, working in services and support and scaling the customer team 35 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:45.400 to more than five hundred employees. He's currently a hundred percent focused on customer 36 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.719 experience as the general manager of the service hub, hub spots new line of 37 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.199 business. Mike Red Board, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you 38 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.759 so much. Thank you so much, listeners. Thrilled to be here. 39 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.229 Awesome. I'm so cited for some of the stuff we're going to go through, 40 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:04.430 especially just based on your experience. I can't imagine the change that you've 41 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.590 seen over a decade at a company like hub spot, but we'll get there 42 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:12.389 later. Will start where we always start here, which is your thoughts about 43 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:15.340 customer experience. When I say customer experience, what does it conjure where it's 44 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:21.580 characteristics is? To me, the customer experience is the reality of what any 45 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:24.860 one given customer services. So I think a lot of people in the industry 46 00:03:24.939 --> 00:03:28.689 of which all hard right, a lot of people in the industry trying to 47 00:03:28.770 --> 00:03:31.169 find customer serious kind of operationally like on a White Board. But to me 48 00:03:31.530 --> 00:03:35.610 it's the reality. It's the old little things on the sum of the bits 49 00:03:35.650 --> 00:03:38.050 of emotion and touches that a customer has with you and the customer experience is 50 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:43.240 really one threat for one customer or what they feel, but they experienced and 51 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.479 what their impression is therefore up your branch. I love it. The you 52 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:51.840 know, I've asked US question over Thirty Times now to smart folks such as 53 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:54.439 yourself, and the layer yet to here's this reality piece that you started on 54 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.830 is like this is real to that person. And you know, we can 55 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:03.310 sit here internally inside the organization and debate why that happened or how that happened, 56 00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:06.830 but the fact of the matter is we left them with the thoughts and 57 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:11.180 the feelings that created a reality for that person they're going to hold on to 58 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:15.419 until we create the opportunity to change that reality or to amplify in the case 59 00:04:15.500 --> 00:04:16.980 that it's a good one. Yeah, I think often, you know, 60 00:04:17.060 --> 00:04:20.459 we choose to disagree with that reality if we haven't also a customer or something 61 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:25.649 like that was really happened. That's that's not a productive kind of stance to 62 00:04:25.730 --> 00:04:28.850 say, because their reality is a reality there. Perction is their perception, 63 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:31.649 that is their experience, and so I think thinking about it as reality actually 64 00:04:31.649 --> 00:04:35.329 cultivates a bit of culture of like empathy, which is a super important ast 65 00:04:35.449 --> 00:04:39.519 you, I would say, the most important, actually delivering really great customer 66 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:44.199 service. Completely agree when I talk about what I'm learning by having these conversations 67 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:48.160 and sharing it internally. It really is about raising up customer empathy in more 68 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:50.439 places. You know, you find it in spots, in their places, 69 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:54.990 where it's really healthy, but you know it's not. It's not often a 70 00:04:55.509 --> 00:04:59.829 pervasive or prevailing attitude or pasture in every seat in the house. But but 71 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:02.230 you know, that's what it takes to deliver an amazing customer experience. So, 72 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:05.509 for folks who don't know, talk a little bit about the service hub, 73 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:09.379 kind of the the tagline at the top of the main page. There 74 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:14.300 is software that turns customers into promoters and service into growth, which is a 75 00:05:14.339 --> 00:05:16.500 really strong promise. I love all the themes there, but talk about what 76 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:19.379 you're doing there with the service hub. And so if you're going to build 77 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:24.329 a druduct come out sweeing on the tagline right. I think that's for us. 78 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:28.290 The service I was a combination of over twelve years of experience and hup 79 00:05:28.370 --> 00:05:31.850 spot and trying to grow our own business and back in two thousand and six 80 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:34.649 we started the company. I think a lot of the way that you define 81 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:40.120 yourself to the market, your respective buyers, was real marketing and you know, 82 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:45.279 we Ho spot really pioneered in marketing and growth through blogging and, you 83 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.240 know, webinars and stuff like that. I think that wasn't that a lot 84 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.829 of the way which you find your brand. It was from your own voice. 85 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:54.910 I think now, twelve years on, two thousand and nineteen, or 86 00:05:54.949 --> 00:05:58.470 its two thousand and twenty like very soon, I think it's much more your 87 00:05:58.550 --> 00:06:01.709 customers that to find your brands, some of their experiences. That matters much 88 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:05.500 more than what you say. Really can't shout them anymore. Every company is 89 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:10.339 defined by its reviews, every company's defined by his customer reference program and so 90 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:15.339 we just seeing this really big change and how people shopping by it has much 91 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:19.329 more to do with the outcome of their peers customers seriences that it those was 92 00:06:19.370 --> 00:06:23.050 what your sales persons says or what your partner say. So because of that 93 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:27.569 we've now created the product hopefully deliver delight. Voice serioces really kind of chantel 94 00:06:27.610 --> 00:06:30.930 that change that we're seeing in the market to help our customers grow and grow 95 00:06:30.009 --> 00:06:33.959 better and more long way to love that you tapped into a theme that I've 96 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:38.439 heard many ways. You put added a different twist on it a little bit. 97 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.319 Is that is that we're no longer in control as businesses and companies, 98 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.399 that it really does belong to the customer. I'm going to go one layer 99 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.430 deeper and give you the chance to talk about something I think you enjoy talking 100 00:06:48.509 --> 00:06:53.029 about and presenting on and probably that you teach and share internally as well. 101 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:58.910 Talk a little bit about the underpinnings of the why behind turning our customers into 102 00:06:59.110 --> 00:07:01.579 our best marketers, and I think it's around this, this trust gap. 103 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:04.980 Can you define the trust gap that exists and how that plays into all this? 104 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:08.860 Yes, what I just describing the last thought, it was really the 105 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:12.339 change that we've seen over the last decade or so. We're folks have gone 106 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.290 from trusting companies and trusting sales people and trusting you as a vendor, to 107 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:19.649 really distrusting you and trusting only people they know and their peers, or perceives 108 00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:24.449 pure group on review sides or something, and those me they're that represents to 109 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:28.009 such change in behavior and and you're saying under opinion. That is what I 110 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:30.720 call the trust gap. So I see it that you have a lot of 111 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:35.120 messages as a marketplace, but people are just less of us for subt I 112 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.040 think a lot of us doings fact that a lot of those messages that we 113 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.759 as people have been receiving over time, we've noticed our lessons. True. 114 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.509 So when a company says nowadays, we did a bit of research recently that 115 00:07:46.589 --> 00:07:48.949 showed this our state of service. For Court recently, when a customer says 116 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:53.189 we are you know, we saw for the customer, our customer first, 117 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:58.389 only twelve percent of their process actually believe that right. So the past majority, 118 00:07:58.509 --> 00:08:01.339 like eighty percent, kind of start off and you started off on the 119 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:03.980 back foot with them because he disbelieved that your customer first, even if you 120 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:07.459 actually are. These is weve be because in the past had been burned by 121 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:11.019 that steamer. And so I think you have the gap. We're in a 122 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:13.370 bit of a dish it. I think as a sort of industry or a 123 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:18.970 community of consumers vendors, where we don't trust businesses and as a result, 124 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.730 when we trust other people, we will for that kind of third party guarantee 125 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:26.490 that we're making the right decision to create certainty because we don't trust business anymore 126 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:30.360 to burn so much over the last, you know, decade or fifteen years. 127 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.519 So good and so well stated. It reminds me of, you know, 128 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.240 in seth going off for the television industrial complex and it's time to move 129 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.879 away from that. It's like, okay, so we moved in a lot 130 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.389 of the stuff that you did that you were talking about earlier, into taking 131 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.629 control of distribution, be able to have our own messages direct a consumer as 132 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.350 essentially media companies, through all these various platforms that have opened up. But 133 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:58.259 even that now has been so apparently abused by marketers and others that that it's 134 00:08:58.379 --> 00:09:01.139 created there. Some of that distrust is now moved into this new zone. 135 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:05.379 Would talk a little bit about some of those channels. I know you have 136 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:09.009 some thoughts around social in the way that's working, around Google and some of 137 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:15.769 the change that they've made that have made acquisition difficult or demand gend difficult. 138 00:09:15.889 --> 00:09:20.769 That that makes this community of satisfied customers so much more valuable in terms of 139 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:24.759 creating new customers. Yeah, so hollow. When I think about growth and 140 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.360 the way you create growth, there's certain things, a certain tactics, certain 141 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.480 points of time that work in, certain ones that don't, a certain ones 142 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.399 that are table stakes but are not like the real beetle movers for your business. 143 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.440 So I think that, you know, acting as a media company and 144 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.549 having that Web presents, having a log doing content marketing as whole table stakes 145 00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:45.549 nowadays, and I see the really the interest moving towards social proof and as 146 00:09:45.549 --> 00:09:48.590 a lot to do with the trust conversation. So how do you create social 147 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:52.110 proof? Like one of the nouns of social proof? To me, there's 148 00:09:52.429 --> 00:09:54.340 some kind of obvious stuff, and that's like putting case studies on your website's 149 00:09:54.379 --> 00:09:58.139 part of that, you know, being a media brand, there are having 150 00:09:58.179 --> 00:10:01.220 a customer reference program where you can have folks actually talk to each other. 151 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:03.860 It's a deeper way to weave that social proof through, perhaps or stale cycle. 152 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:07.730 Then there's, you know, the way people talk about you on social 153 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:09.210 especially for me to see brands, and you know, there's ways to go 154 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:13.169 off the three influencers, but really when you get that authentic drive and people 155 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.850 really loving you, feels very different. On our social networks, and I 156 00:10:18.009 --> 00:10:22.679 think you have review sites, which are just super key to growth nowadays because 157 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:24.240 that's where a lot of us go and when we search. Those are things 158 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.679 actually rantings really well in Google because people trust them and people know that they 159 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.159 performed well. So those four he studies, reference program social, proved and 160 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.029 rew sites. That's really kind of the key, you nouns, of growth. 161 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.909 And of course that's all the old stuff, contem marketing, all that. 162 00:10:39.149 --> 00:10:41.549 It's still matters, you still have to do it, but it's become 163 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:45.710 a matter of wearing on this new stuff. Do you want to actually grow 164 00:10:45.789 --> 00:10:48.990 and compete in a modern world with a modern customer? Great can you go 165 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:54.500 one step deeper on reference programs? And the reason I ask is, you 166 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:58.019 know, we've had various efforts here. You know, whether it's inside our 167 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.700 support site, you know, by customer request. Years Ago I started a 168 00:11:01.779 --> 00:11:05.330 couple facebook groups. You know, customers like we want a place to connect 169 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:09.289 with other people and then and talk a Lott in. In my experience you 170 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:11.769 have to do a lot of lifting to get them to participate and to speak 171 00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:16.009 to one another and add value to each other. Can you share some of 172 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:18.480 the things he's maybe learned along the way with regard to those types of programs? 173 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:22.000 Absolutely so. The first thing is the same thing that you just said. 174 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.720 Is Hard. Actually producing a successful customer reference program is quite a bit 175 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.440 of work and I think that companies actually should be choosing. Do we want 176 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.789 to invest, you know, somebody's salary and time and a customer reference program 177 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:39.669 where do we want to invest that in more ball posts or whatever it is? 178 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:41.830 I think there's really a trade off there, because doing the sprite is 179 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:46.700 heavy westing. So the ways of seeming work are basically to use some magnism 180 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:50.779 to identify within your customer base people who love you. If you have a 181 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:54.539 lot of customers or if you deliver a really good, serious either way you're 182 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:58.779 going to have some people, at least one that's a rabid fan. Really 183 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.450 want to start with that first one, and that's your very first kind of 184 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:05.690 customer reference or reference will point. Want to find that population, whether it's 185 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:07.490 water or a hundred or a thousand, you want to identify them and tag 186 00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:09.850 them in some way. And then, to your point, you need to 187 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:15.090 cultivate and, you know, create some system that kind of postimated as a 188 00:12:15.129 --> 00:12:18.679 virtual cycle from that. Has To be something in it for that. Whether 189 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.559 it's just being recognized as a star customer, that could be enough. Sometimes 190 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.679 it's about it. If you do, if you do one of these calls, 191 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.399 will give you a fifty dollar Amazon Gif card. Different things work for 192 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.269 different businesses. So I want to identifying them, so to is cultivating them, 193 00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:33.830 and I think that there is a fair amount of turnover at thest six 194 00:12:33.909 --> 00:12:37.269 to s require a lot of upkeep because it's a big pass. If you 195 00:12:37.389 --> 00:12:41.309 ask me to get on the phone or get on a get on a video 196 00:12:41.429 --> 00:12:45.179 with a Persu procepect of yours, that's a lot of mind time and so 197 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:48.179 folks get burned out on it, folks turnover and it does take a lot 198 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.779 of kind of cost effort to keep it going. But a great customer reference 199 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:54.259 program this is one of the strongest forms of social proof and it's one of 200 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:58.019 the strongest ways, I think, to really compete and win with the modern 201 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:01.409 customer in this modern era of trust gaps. So I would argue that the 202 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:05.490 time the marketing department puts toward cultivating that reference program or any of these other 203 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:09.529 kind of social proof tools is really valuable. But it should be looked at 204 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:11.919 on a freight off comparison. Which W should we make that next layding page, 205 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.200 to make that next ad or should we invest the next calory in custom 206 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.480 references? Awesome. I'm going to guess, just based on that response that 207 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.600 you that you have some ideas to share on this too. On talk a 208 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.950 little bit, maybe about things that you've tried and seen or seen some of 209 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.029 the marketing folks at at help spot try, or maybe it's even bled into 210 00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:35.590 services and support at some level. What are some more passive ways to equip 211 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:39.309 customers to be marketers on your behalf? For example, again, just speaking 212 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:43.139 from our experience, we have an affiliate program. We've had it for years. 213 00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:46.460 Is One of the first things that some of our first customers started asking 214 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:48.539 for, you know, a decade ago. And yet, you know, 215 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:54.860 ninety percent of the revenues generated by three percent of the the affiliates you know, 216 00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:58.330 and it's in part because we're not equipping them well enough and giving them 217 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.409 stories to share in that kind of thing. Have you seen other more scaled 218 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:05.009 programs that aren't necessarily as personal, aren't as much of a heavy ask on 219 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.720 the customer side, but it's still tapping into that in order to, you 220 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.960 know, benefit from the the positive relationships you've filled with customers. Yeah, 221 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.559 there are definitely ways to do this. So becustomer refers program that we just 222 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.679 talked about here is quite a high investment on the customers part to help you 223 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.429 as a business to grow. And so if you stopping of it as a 224 00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:30.029 centrum from high investment on the customers part to low investment, you can start 225 00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:33.389 to turn the path maybe even higher. Is like having a customer come on 226 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.070 site through a reference. But you know that's quite far behind what's in the 227 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:39.940 lower rept to me, that's like a red feet right, that's a that's 228 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.860 a quick share on Linkedin or instagram or something like that. Right. And 229 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:48.100 so there's kind of these one quick digital things that are asyncritus on one and 230 00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:52.210 low and time investment, and then there's there's these sacronous, have you duty 231 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:54.769 things on the on the other end. And so different things work for different 232 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:58.250 businesses. But for us, at least we've seen works is to understand again 233 00:14:58.289 --> 00:15:01.769 who those customers are, where your potential advocates. You identify them for your 234 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:05.610 kind of normal business operations, who you know had a great response after support 235 00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:09.440 case, who gave you a ten on your quarterly MPs, whatever it is. 236 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.919 You get that pool and then you can kind of just throw them these 237 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.039 easy opportunities and you'll find out that pool is likely to uptake on them if 238 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.000 there's a so if you send them an email with we just want to saying 239 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.950 if you want to help us out, here's a lazy teed cut past or 240 00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:26.750 quick here, and it's a simple, one quick way to do this thing. 241 00:15:26.990 --> 00:15:28.990 So there's lots of ways to hardest of power of that epic se group. 242 00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:31.110 To me, from an operational stand why? It all starts to the 243 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:35.149 same place. Yes, to identify your advocates. That's through your whole business 244 00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:37.860 process, and then it just a question of do you want to make a 245 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.659 heavy ass or all? I ask, and sometimes it's both. Sometimes are 246 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:45.220 different types of customers within that's within the population that want to do different ones, 247 00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:46.820 and so whatever the light is, fossil thing you can do is that's 248 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:50.970 on the first set of the spectrum, and then things like customer reference programs 249 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.929 and all that's the other end. Awesome. I want to change course a 250 00:15:56.129 --> 00:15:58.970 little bit you. You know what you've seen over the decade there. I 251 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:03.769 mean just in the way that you're responding the depths and the clarity of thought 252 00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:08.159 around it. You're obviously deeply steeped in a lot of hard one lessons, 253 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:12.000 in learnings and observations and a very forward looking company. I mean, for 254 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:17.000 me, hub spot was really important in my career as I was transitioning out 255 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.549 of, you know, previous industry that I'd spent twelve years in. Like 256 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:23.269 what skills are transferable. All the work that hub spot was doing was very 257 00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:29.990 helpful for me. I've always appreciated respected your company. Talk about and I'll 258 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.179 take this some place, you know five, five or ten minutes from now, 259 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:37.779 but talk a little bit about your career growth and progression within the company 260 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:41.940 and I'll tee this up with a few pieces of information and observations of my 261 00:16:41.019 --> 00:16:45.019 own. What I feel like a lot of younger employees wanted all and they 262 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.129 want it all right now, right and I'm imagined that there was some patients 263 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:53.169 and flexibility and and stuff in your movement throughout the organization. But you know, 264 00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:56.610 you've been you've been there almost a decade in seven different roles, or 265 00:16:56.610 --> 00:17:00.970 at least by title, it looks like it's your second company, with a 266 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:04.039 compete for a couple years prior to that, and Undergrad. You're an international 267 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:08.960 relations, philosophy and computer science. Talk about how did you land at hub 268 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.359 spot? What is your movement been and what are some of the things that 269 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.630 you picked up along the way that have now led you to be the general 270 00:17:15.670 --> 00:17:18.670 manager of the of the service hub? So, first of all, thank 271 00:17:18.710 --> 00:17:22.190 you so much for their kind words on, you know, the ways that 272 00:17:22.309 --> 00:17:25.349 responsive being able to help you. That's like the ones my heart. There's 273 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:27.390 a lot of what we think of as our impact over the long term. 274 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:32.140 Is that? That's great. I love that. I mean, I guess 275 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:36.339 I'm a story or a series of maybe short stories here, and that I 276 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:38.460 hope you help the wiseners, just like if you're early on in your career 277 00:17:38.779 --> 00:17:41.539 you're trying to figure out, you know, feears into the workforce, what 278 00:17:41.779 --> 00:17:45.170 to do or if your returns coming back from, you know, being out 279 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:48.410 or having family or something like that. Hopefully some of these stories to see 280 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:52.609 you guys. So for me, I think one thing that I've learned about 281 00:17:52.609 --> 00:17:56.369 myself over the over the years is that I really like building things and I 282 00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:02.240 like going deep on something and building one thing. So I don't think, 283 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.920 as I've warned about myself, I'm not the kind of person over the course 284 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.599 of my career, is going to start fifty companies and you know for going 285 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.920 to be great success. That's not really me. I'm going to help build 286 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.029 a few companies hopefully build into something I'm exceptionally proud of that I want my 287 00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:18.869 grandkids proud. So there's a little bit in this first step just knowing who 288 00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:22.230 you are, and I think you are not through serious. But you know, 289 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:23.549 I think you can try to think about am I the kind of person 290 00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:26.259 works with a lot of places and touches a lot of different things? For 291 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:30.299 my sort of very broad or am I very deep on one thing or a 292 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:32.619 my sort of te tapes, I do a little bit of both. So 293 00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:34.779 for me, you know, I've been looking, or in my s after 294 00:18:34.779 --> 00:18:38.019 a few years of experience, really looking for a company, like it's really 295 00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:41.130 sick my teeth and to and crow with, and I was lucky to find 296 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:45.450 up spot an element where I really just needed a job and it was a 297 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:48.170 company that I interview with I felt excited about. It has buzz around it. 298 00:18:48.569 --> 00:18:52.210 Candidly, I don't think I knew what I was getting into when I 299 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:53.730 enjoined. Up Spot is about a hundred person company. In my job is 300 00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:56.480 new customer on board. I thought it was a job. I interviewed on 301 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.200 a Saturday and again on the Monday and I started working on the next Monday 302 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:02.759 because a friend of mine worked here. I used to go parties of people 303 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:06.799 that also worked a up spots was fact two thousand, and so over time, 304 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.910 though, I feel very fortunate to have a fall with upsot and basically, 305 00:19:11.309 --> 00:19:12.750 you know, I feel as though I've worked at three or four very 306 00:19:12.789 --> 00:19:15.990 different companies and as you go through the girl cycles that we have from a 307 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:19.750 hundred employees to a thousand, you know, through an IPO to an international 308 00:19:19.869 --> 00:19:25.900 company with thousands of employees, you can really junk that experience off into three 309 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:27.900 or four very different types of companies. And I'll tell you working how to 310 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:32.460 start up, where it's just madness every day to trying to keep up and 311 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.220 close the earth to make it turn and every single person is just super focus 312 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:38.769 in that growth. That's a really different type of experience, really different type 313 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:41.970 of skill set. I'm working at like a scale up once you sort of 314 00:19:42.009 --> 00:19:45.970 arrived, and I really trying to scale that growth in the next level and 315 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:48.809 it's less of a purely visceral exercise. We're kind of calling at the earth. 316 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:53.160 is not the skill set. It's more about tactical calling the right strategy 317 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.880 to the right time and making the right tactical moves order to grow. So 318 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.799 I think the companies really change over time, but I think that one of 319 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.279 the challenges in that growth actually keeping the focus on the customer. And so 320 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.950 the one consistent thing that I've seen, and really from our founders, ran 321 00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:10.829 a Dar Mesh, that I've seen over and over and over over the last 322 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:14.789 Seconde. is they are just absolutely obsessed with that customer sperience. The definition 323 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:17.750 that I gave you even at the top of the show around what I think 324 00:20:17.789 --> 00:20:22.420 customer services. It's the reality of the single customers spread of their experience that 325 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:26.019 really comes from, I think, our founders pointed view and their obsession with 326 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:29.339 that one customer sperience and trying to make that as great as possible. Over 327 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:32.460 time. I've had various shot of doing various things, but that's really been 328 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:36.210 our north star. Even if you know the skill sets of changed over time. 329 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:38.650 We've kind of really learned about myself through the journey. So good. 330 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:42.130 I'm really glad I ask that. And now I want to get a little 331 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:48.609 bit into how of the customers change to how has the service function changed? 332 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:52.559 So for you your initial role was on boarding new customers. Talk a little 333 00:20:52.599 --> 00:21:00.160 bit about that journey specifically for people are thinking about customer success generally and customer 334 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.750 support or customer service specifically. Like, what are some of the thing you 335 00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:08.309 know you defined at a company level kind of these different chunks along the way. 336 00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:11.309 What are a few things you know for people that are somewhere along that 337 00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:17.069 journey is a company? What does that look like inside a CS organization along 338 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.740 that path? Yeah, great questions. So I think at the beginning you 339 00:21:19.819 --> 00:21:23.019 know and you're just in the primority lose of the business and you're a couple 340 00:21:23.059 --> 00:21:26.380 of founders, maybe an engineer and perhaps a salesperson. You know, it's 341 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:30.380 we also is the same room. You know, at that point everybody really 342 00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:33.769 understands the fabric of the customer experience. You're doing support, you know, 343 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:37.890 via test message or once on the founder cell phones. Right it's like everybody's 344 00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:41.450 really plugged in. And then there's a very interesting moment that happens that business 345 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.450 hires the first person whose job it is is just working customers. You hire, 346 00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:48.559 you know, a DP of customer success. We hired that support rap 347 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.440 was just going to quer the Q at the end of the day, whatever 348 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.480 it is, because now what you've done is you take that responsibility, this 349 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:59.559 kind of holly responsibility of customer experience, and you've moved it from founder well 350 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.390 to employee level. That's first really big change. That I think is a 351 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:07.029 super interesting one of the means that first hire is really, really key because 352 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:10.029 that person is also going to really define the genetics of your you know, 353 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:12.670 of Your Service Department and the major of the customer studience after that. So 354 00:22:12.789 --> 00:22:17.500 that's really, really key. On the other key moment that happens after that, 355 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:19.220 and then there's one more after following this one, is that you go 356 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.859 from one person to a set of people and those set of people start to 357 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:26.180 do different functions. So you hire a support person or two and they just 358 00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:30.650 kind of did stuff and then one day you wake up and you realize, 359 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.730 Oh, I have one person whose job it is to make our new customer 360 00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:36.930 successful and I've another person whose job it is is to clear the support. 361 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.250 You and I specialized right and that point of specialization is interesting because you start 362 00:22:41.289 --> 00:22:45.200 to develop like expertise. You start to develop the way at your company of 363 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.880 doing, say, on board, of doing the support, and I think 364 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.599 that's where you start to develop practices and you start to get really opinionated about, 365 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.160 you know, what is the new customer experience look like at my company, 366 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.950 and that's a very exciting time. And then that's stage too. So 367 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.509 it goes from just everybody those support started to get specialized, and thet's say 368 00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:07.509 three is really about, I guess, the customer experience and customer success customer 369 00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.980 outcomes becoming the culture of the company. And so there's a really kind of 370 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:18.299 a third level here where customer experience becomes the core of the mindset of every 371 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:22.740 single person and everything you do you track back to customer sperience. Every time 372 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:25.779 you do a sale, every way that you make decisions about your upcoming and 373 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:29.329 you strategy, whatever it is, really value the customer experience and you don't 374 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:32.170 kind of let the tail wagon dog was saying, Oh, how do we 375 00:23:32.289 --> 00:23:34.049 just grow a little more, we'll deal with that customer than later. You 376 00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:38.609 really put the customer first ass scale that. I think that third part is 377 00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:41.880 the hardest thing to do, because the first one, hiring that first round, 378 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.920 and second one, specializing, all of those happened to you on your 379 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.160 journey to growth. But the third one, of really making customer serience the 380 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:56.269 centerpiece of your entire business rategy. That's effort from your founders or your executive 381 00:23:56.309 --> 00:23:57.549 team. All that, I mean the right hires along the way. A 382 00:23:57.630 --> 00:24:00.269 lot of things have to come together and make that work. I think doing 383 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:04.670 that is really what different is amazing companies and modern era from okay less. 384 00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:07.630 I would to work in a basing companies that really care about customers, but 385 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:11.619 the customer sperience center of everything. To do so, how do? You've 386 00:24:11.619 --> 00:24:17.259 already mentioned several ways that that is that third piece. Is the thing. 387 00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:21.539 We're at that door right like you know, we're at that point at where 388 00:24:21.579 --> 00:24:25.049 maybe a hundred and forty people and we're at that point where we have a 389 00:24:25.130 --> 00:24:27.650 lot of folks with direct customer experience that are, you know, a few 390 00:24:27.690 --> 00:24:30.410 months on the job and a few years into their career. And so how 391 00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:33.609 do you know? How do you bring back all of the essence, like 392 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:38.640 the deep motivations and the intentional that and you mentioned, you know, the 393 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:44.200 founders hiring. Well, I assume that it's baked into some of the onboarding. 394 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.960 But what are some other practical ways that people can can infuse the rest 395 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:53.029 of the organization with a sensitivity toward customer experience and its value? And again, 396 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:56.750 just double back on customer empathy. How do we order some practical ways 397 00:24:56.789 --> 00:25:00.430 that you are raising that up inside the organization day to day, week to 398 00:25:00.509 --> 00:25:04.349 week? I love that question. Love it especially because you use the word 399 00:25:04.470 --> 00:25:08.660 sensitivity in there and that's really what it is. And so what we want 400 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:12.339 to do is you want to cultivate a culture that is sensitive to the customer. 401 00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:15.059 And the way you do that, the way you create that, I 402 00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:19.900 think the necessary depths of understanding to have that, like fine great sensitivity, 403 00:25:21.259 --> 00:25:25.089 is you have to actually do things that don't scale right. So, like 404 00:25:25.210 --> 00:25:27.009 when I was on boarding customers of house fought, I spent eight hours a 405 00:25:27.049 --> 00:25:30.049 day on the phone with them and I would touch, you know, whatever, 406 00:25:30.089 --> 00:25:33.890 a hundred customers in a week. I was really sensitive to the customer 407 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:37.839 sperience. When I was a director of support, you know, with a 408 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.200 fifty person team. That was kind of in my review mirror and a sim 409 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.759 more time and spreadsheets. I got really good at interviewing and hiring the use 410 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.960 of my time. I was a good director of support. But that sensitivities 411 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.869 the customer kind of fades away. If you can lean back on it, 412 00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:52.710 you know it starts again the review or gets a little worrier. And so 413 00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:56.430 the way that I think you really stay in touch, even if you come 414 00:25:56.549 --> 00:26:00.509 from a place where you were superb, like inbedded in the customer serience, 415 00:26:00.549 --> 00:26:03.380 way you stay in touch is you go back there, you spentime with customers. 416 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:07.339 You don't just listen to the customer calls, you actually are the person 417 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:11.500 doing the calls. You you have to yourself respond to the question from the 418 00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:15.299 customer about why Ez he didn't work or why did this single this way or, 419 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.420 you know, listen to their hackaways about something and the fact that they 420 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:22.890 display something else not to create that emotional state in yourself and have a really 421 00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:25.890 high Tud relationship with the customer. So I tactical level, what can you 422 00:26:25.970 --> 00:26:30.289 do to create that sensitivity on your executive team? Talk to a customer every 423 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:33.200 month as a team. It doesn't scale. It's the world's most expensive support 424 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.839 call in certain ways, but do it because it will create a sensitivity and 425 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.319 it will, like I shake you out of your normalcy and it back into 426 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.480 the customers reality. Add to the customer serience. If you're in product right 427 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.069 and you're doing research and you know it's kind of quantitative, make sure for 428 00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:53.349 coloring it with quality of research and talk to some customers and feel what they 429 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:56.750 feel or do say visits right. It's sebally empathy in that sensitivity and a 430 00:26:56.829 --> 00:27:00.269 lot of that is doing things. It's a scale. So why I see 431 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:03.819 our team doing this, for our secute sends actually quite a bit of time 432 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:07.460 with customers one on one. And you know, there's one way to look 433 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:10.579 at it like wow, that's a really inefficient use of highly the people's time. 434 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:12.140 The other way is that's the thing that makes us us. We would 435 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:15.930 fail without that and I think that, I think that's second wrote that that 436 00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:19.130 is like the necessary way to cultivate sensitivity in the upathe is just gottis spend 437 00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:22.450 the time with costs, just people to people. It's great. It's one 438 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:29.089 of my curiosities. Again that motivates me within these conversations on the customer experience. 439 00:27:29.210 --> 00:27:33.359 Podcasts is doing the unscalable and a certain point maybe you do figure out 440 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.079 how to scale it. But I think so many people are looking to automate 441 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.720 and scale. I'm using your quotes for people not watching video clips, which 442 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:47.829 you can do by visiting bombombcom slash podcast. We want to scale these things, 443 00:27:48.349 --> 00:27:51.789 maybe prematurely. I think there are some things to your point. There's 444 00:27:51.789 --> 00:27:53.750 some things that that maybe shouldn't be scaled and there are other things that you 445 00:27:53.829 --> 00:27:57.309 can just push to the very, very edge. It's like, okay, 446 00:27:57.859 --> 00:28:02.660 cost benefit not there talk a little bit about that, I guess, from 447 00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:07.940 a success and service and support standpoint. Human touch versus tech touch, how 448 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.900 do you think about it? Is Is it? Is it purely a calculated 449 00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:14.970 piece or like, what are some of your thoughts around when to be truly 450 00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:21.809 personal and then when to personalize? So I love people. I also love 451 00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:23.769 as machines. Right, so I come on, I come on both sides 452 00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:29.279 this. Of course, they have different people have different skills that machines, 453 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:30.599 whichines are great, a something. Some people are great at somethings. So 454 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:36.279 to me, people are actually insanely flexible and they they're very actile. You 455 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.119 can walk in in the morning and say, like not, your job is 456 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:42.029 to do this thing, but yesterday was this sec that's much more difficult with 457 00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:45.150 the machine, but at least a relatively simple machine that you've just stood up. 458 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.710 But people are really flessible and they're very actual. Machines are great at 459 00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:52.309 doing the same task over and over and they're really good at doing things that 460 00:28:52.509 --> 00:28:55.819 people, you know, kind of don't want to do. Also right. 461 00:28:56.019 --> 00:28:59.339 So to me, how do you say that then what people are good at 462 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:02.259 and what machines are good at and create a customer success strategy? That pen's 463 00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:06.140 books. And the answer is, if you have questions about what the your 464 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:08.940 process ought to be, so like say, let's take a new customer making 465 00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:12.009 that successful. If you have questions about what it takes to make a customer 466 00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:15.329 successful, that is not a job for a machine. That's a job for 467 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.890 human. Yes, and Mal can help write, but a human could just 468 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:21.730 talk to twenty customers are probably figured it out over the course of a week 469 00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:25.039 in a much heaper and more actual way. So that's kind of the beginning 470 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:26.640 of the story. Often starts some people when you're trying to Hask those questions 471 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.960 of what ought we to do. Then once you know what you ought to 472 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.400 do, then it's time to like kind of blend people in machines and some 473 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.750 really cool cyborg thing and start outment the forductivity of people and start to move 474 00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:41.589 some of the simpler work. More people work off of their place. So 475 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:44.630 they found there's an email that they send every time. It works really well. 476 00:29:44.869 --> 00:29:48.710 Cool. Let's not have the sent the emails which comes from a crm 477 00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.309 or websycle manager smouche or something like that. Over time, as a people 478 00:29:52.390 --> 00:29:53.900 figure out more and more things and more and more of a false as to 479 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:59.259 kind of like repeatable, successful stuff. Machines are great at that. Over 480 00:29:59.420 --> 00:30:02.500 time, in fact, even that whole process, perhaps on boarding itself, 481 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:04.500 might get fully automated. But I'm a big fan of really starting with people. 482 00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:07.930 To people are actually and flexible, but overtime larying and machines and more 483 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:11.970 and more over time that becomes more mechanized. The trick in that because that 484 00:30:12.130 --> 00:30:18.049 sometimes there are changes that happen, either exhaustion of changes and the market place 485 00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:21.049 or, you know, the way humans are behaving, which talked about at 486 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:22.680 a little bit of the front of the podcast, or maybe you change your 487 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.279 pricing or your packaging or some new competitor and that can really come in and 488 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.000 create like some waves that use that have to go back in with people and 489 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.759 refigure out. That's beginning of this process. So to me, start with 490 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:37.910 people, because of flexible you automate over time and you will eat fun of 491 00:30:37.910 --> 00:30:41.309 your processes individually somewhere off that spectrum. And then you need to kind of 492 00:30:41.349 --> 00:30:45.630 have a hygiene process for making sure that inside, yes, these are good 493 00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:48.470 and you're not fooling yourself into thinking that you've got it all figured out. 494 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:52.819 Saying we're saying in touch with the customer and you really are key to understand 495 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:56.019 what the experience because even when you have automated a lot of their way so 496 00:30:56.180 --> 00:31:00.980 good that in that hygiene process is so easy to miss this idea that we 497 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.329 do need to carve out the time or to make a process to double back 498 00:31:03.450 --> 00:31:07.210 and review and make sure that this all works. The way I the way 499 00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:11.529 I heard, that's grossly oversimplified and if anyone enjoyed that as much as I 500 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:14.930 did, just hit the bounce back button and listen to that response again, 501 00:31:14.970 --> 00:31:17.769 because there's a lot of really good stuff in there. To really dumb it 502 00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:21.079 down. It's the machine is going to operate against a rule set. The 503 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.160 rule set needs to be written and humans are in the best position to learn 504 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.160 and take some of this complex information, put it together, the nuance and 505 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.750 the detail folded together into the rule sets that the machine operates by. Periodically 506 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:36.910 check in and make sure that the rule set still applies and that the machine 507 00:31:36.950 --> 00:31:38.710 is still doing a job. I'm going to hit you with a couple other 508 00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:42.589 just kind of themes, are high level questions, before wrapping the way I 509 00:31:42.630 --> 00:31:48.019 always like to wrap the show, and one of them is based on a 510 00:31:48.099 --> 00:31:51.220 word that I saw on the service hub website. Is something I've been thinking 511 00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:52.900 about quite a bit. There are number of books written with this in the 512 00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:57.059 title. Talk a little bit about friction and friction less, talk about the 513 00:31:57.099 --> 00:32:00.140 friction less experience, and what triggered that for me was that you know, 514 00:32:00.259 --> 00:32:05.569 this blend of both and human and machine is how I think we get best 515 00:32:05.609 --> 00:32:08.609 to friction less. But we are some of your thoughts around friction frictionless. 516 00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:14.569 Am I you? Fristes is a piece of the customer experience and something customers 517 00:32:14.609 --> 00:32:17.680 field around the experience, sometimes for ups. So, for instance, if 518 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.920 I want to engage with your company to accomplish a certain thing and I can't 519 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:27.079 do it the way that I want. I see is frisure. So it's 520 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.589 really a it's very customer centric kind of things, first thing, and different 521 00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.869 customers and different business of different definitions of what friction is. There's not a 522 00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:37.109 one size at all. Christ's, if I wanted to, you know, 523 00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:42.470 sign out for spotify, I don't want to talk to a person. spotify 524 00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:45.819 maybe talk to a person. I don't for it. Having considered that friction, 525 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:47.700 how I would be less likely to sign up a spotify wine honest and 526 00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:52.059 cancel my spotify account has talk to a person. Have user up friction. 527 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.299 That would make me more upset on the way up the door. But I 528 00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:58.730 wanted to buy up spot enterprise class software in order to do, you know, 529 00:32:58.849 --> 00:33:01.650 crm or help desk for something, I might want to talk to a 530 00:33:01.769 --> 00:33:06.130 person and in fact, if you push to a self service versus experience, 531 00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:08.009 I might not like it and might actually want to talk to a human being 532 00:33:08.049 --> 00:33:12.130 in order to make my decision. And so that's a case in which sometimes 533 00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:15.960 buying and doing that self service, that's about reducing frictions of machines. Sometimes 534 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.640 about reducing friction by, in a like human top so once again it's understanding 535 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.319 your customer in the moment, what they actually need and finding the path of 536 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.990 reast recess for that. Anything else is creating friction. So for different businesses 537 00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:30.869 it's really different things. There's consider purchases. Will consider purchases. There's times 538 00:33:30.869 --> 00:33:34.750 where we really want to consultation and advice, there's times we want to be 539 00:33:34.789 --> 00:33:37.630 less of loaners, do what we know is right. And I think understanding 540 00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:40.349 your customer or reading your segments of customers to sub personas within your customer base 541 00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:44.660 and try, and really I think the key Verbus, to match the way 542 00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:47.059 your customers want to be treated with the channels and the mechanisms that you offer. 543 00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:51.420 That's how you reduce friction. You do that for frictional selling. There's 544 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:53.579 a lot of ways to reduce friction in the sales process. Do that for 545 00:33:53.859 --> 00:33:58.210 frictional a service so that people can get their own answers when they want but 546 00:33:58.289 --> 00:34:00.609 also have the help they eat when they need it. And there's all sorts 547 00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:04.210 of ways across the wife stable to reduce friction and I think nowadays the brand 548 00:34:04.369 --> 00:34:07.010 with the least friction went that's how you created your customer experience. That's how 549 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:10.000 you grow as how you beat the competition. It's less about even having the 550 00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.360 best product, it's more about having the best experience. Were Bou having the 551 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:19.719 lowest first hundred percent agree. That's an easy story for a satisfied customer to 552 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.960 tell. Right like I went in with this opportunity or this problem or this 553 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.869 challenge, and guess what it was? Unlike all the other ones. It 554 00:34:27.030 --> 00:34:30.030 just like got resolved or I got to completion right away and it was easier 555 00:34:30.110 --> 00:34:34.309 than I thought because of the expectations around a lot of the stuff are so 556 00:34:34.670 --> 00:34:37.659 low and in this friction zone is like moving so quickly. There's a lot 557 00:34:37.699 --> 00:34:42.900 of progress there. So I think expectations will change rapidly, but you know, 558 00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:46.659 we're still maybe in a window where it's not that hard to exceed expectations. 559 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:52.820 The other place I wanted to go here quickly is video. So you 560 00:34:52.889 --> 00:34:55.530 know we turns out we both sound a lot of simple, personal, unscripted 561 00:34:55.570 --> 00:35:00.489 videos to connect and communicate with people more effectively. We swap videos prior to 562 00:35:00.570 --> 00:35:01.530 this call. So when you came out, I was like hey, it's 563 00:35:01.570 --> 00:35:05.769 Mike. Talk a little bit about why you like video and maybe even how 564 00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:09.440 you've seen it be successful within your within your support efforts. I just see 565 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:15.000 the progress is videos technology over the last five years or so so really fast 566 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.480 and it's a fantastic way to humanize experiences in a world where I think we're 567 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.309 really hungry for human experiences. And so we started probably way back in two 568 00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:27.989 thousand and fourteen or so and our support team using video as a tool, 569 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:31.510 especially when we realize that we're doo emails into a twist it. But man, 570 00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:35.190 this could get really nartly. Let me record a too minute. We 571 00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:37.500 called them video voice sales. Kind of sent the wall with a little bit 572 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:42.820 of test and those just like the opportunity for surprises of light and those it's 573 00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:45.260 just a base. People don't expect it. It's so novel enough that it 574 00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:51.449 kind of feels new and fresh to the recipient and it just it can help 575 00:35:51.489 --> 00:35:54.929 you get over so many, I think, hurdles that technology imposes, like 576 00:35:55.010 --> 00:35:59.050 when you communicate for email, there's always that channeling. Read the email. 577 00:35:59.250 --> 00:36:01.010 How should I response? Should I craft this? There's all this like inner 578 00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:05.679 monolog us, a sense with all that when you're on a just a phone 579 00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.519 call, you never know what's going on with somebody like moming something on the 580 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.639 side or whatever. Like synchronous video and get get away from that. You 581 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.159 at least somebody a voicemail. You don't know if you're actual communicating what they 582 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.239 need, but when your company with video in your face and intonation in your 583 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:22.110 voice clusterface, it just really enrichested. So we just seen video as a 584 00:36:22.269 --> 00:36:27.949 tremendously useful ways to shortcut, like in safe time, the simultaneously actually get 585 00:36:27.949 --> 00:36:30.230 better. How it comes for everybody. It's just like good things come to 586 00:36:30.349 --> 00:36:32.900 those that are more human, and video nowadays, I think, is a 587 00:36:32.980 --> 00:36:37.619 technology that really enables human as well. Who knows those nast maybe it's like, 588 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:39.179 you know, I went to reality, or or you are or something 589 00:36:39.219 --> 00:36:42.300 like. There's some mess. That will be the thing. But I think 590 00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:45.139 right now, at this moment of prober, for the next couple of years 591 00:36:45.139 --> 00:36:47.610 at least, videos a really, really great way to humanize the sales experience, 592 00:36:47.690 --> 00:36:52.329 support experience, whatever it is. It just like just shortcut a lot 593 00:36:52.369 --> 00:36:54.010 of the stuff and just wort personal person to get to where you want to 594 00:36:54.050 --> 00:36:58.449 go. So good and all it takes is getting past that. You know 595 00:36:58.530 --> 00:37:01.800 that that tense, that challenge that people feel in crafting the right response. 596 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:05.119 And did I get the tone right? You know, there's the same thing 597 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.639 with getting comfortable on camera. But once he move past that. I love 598 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:12.840 what you offered their first that the person that's more human wins. But then 599 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:17.030 also you can save time while improving the outcome once you get past that basic 600 00:37:17.110 --> 00:37:22.230 comfort of recording and sending videos like this has been awesome, the ton of 601 00:37:22.269 --> 00:37:23.469 value. I know I kind of took it a little bit all over the 602 00:37:23.590 --> 00:37:28.269 place, but I know that people are going to enjoy the conversation and playback 603 00:37:28.309 --> 00:37:30.739 very very much. Before we go, I always love to give you the 604 00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:35.500 opportunity to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or 605 00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:39.380 career and to mention a company that is doing customer experience really, really well. 606 00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:44.449 Yeah, so I think one of the people that's had a really formative 607 00:37:44.489 --> 00:37:49.650 role in my a lot of the conversation we've had on this podcast today is 608 00:37:49.849 --> 00:37:52.849 Brian, my CEO, and you know he's somebody that's had a incredibly type 609 00:37:52.889 --> 00:37:57.929 focus on the customer to throughout our growth, but he's also somebody who you 610 00:37:58.010 --> 00:38:00.840 know I've been in. He's only close content with for not ten years and 611 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.480 he's one of the most adoptable human beings on the planet and I just constantly 612 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.360 impressed by his consistency of focus, with the new tools and new levels that 613 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.360 he seen able to reach in his job function, which I seel the software 614 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.110 company has changed from my founder. So now you know, let's see your 615 00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:19.269 global public company and it's just straying interests to watch them. But also watched 616 00:38:19.309 --> 00:38:22.590 the customer focus. He's got a great mentor me nowing you make the right 617 00:38:22.630 --> 00:38:24.670 decisions. And you know, Storty Crow my career too. So That's on 618 00:38:24.750 --> 00:38:28.139 the mentor side. A lot of what I have to say is sort of, 619 00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:30.820 you know, share with Brian in terms of totality, right. And 620 00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:34.500 then on the on the customer side, thin, excuse me, the O, 621 00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:37.059 the business side. That I think a really interesting I find that the 622 00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:43.489 place where customers series is most important is where the thing that you're selling is 623 00:38:43.530 --> 00:38:45.329 a little bit of a commodity, right, getting a bunch of places, 624 00:38:45.530 --> 00:38:51.050 and the more competitive the industry, the more husberry serious today is causing her 625 00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:53.570 to be winners stand out whener sometimes. So when I look at that, 626 00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:57.559 I think if some industries that are kind of like old school industries, right. 627 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.280 I look at like the mattress industry and what Casper or like, you 628 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:04.599 know, those kind of quick summer mattresses are doing with customer series. Maybe, 629 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.320 sure, you have any great experience. But an industry that I really, 630 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.829 really like, it's actually the makeup industry and there's two brands in there 631 00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:13.429 want to call out in particular. Want is called Gipsy. They want to 632 00:39:13.469 --> 00:39:15.869 call blass, right, and these brands are selling meg up and they have 633 00:39:15.989 --> 00:39:20.590 a brand identity. They have such an amazing pull through of that brand identity 634 00:39:20.869 --> 00:39:23.659 from their website, their instagram to their service or twitter. It is just 635 00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:27.659 so good sistem. You feel like you're talking to a person that has a 636 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:31.059 real identity. I think it's on an amazing job of cultivating themselves in terms 637 00:39:31.099 --> 00:39:36.579 of personas and delivering a customer serious really in line with what their customers want. 638 00:39:36.739 --> 00:39:39.489 So I love those industries. I love those friends great recommendations. Hey, 639 00:39:39.769 --> 00:39:44.369 if someone wants to follow up with you because they want to see what 640 00:39:44.409 --> 00:39:46.889 you're sharing and and connect and communicate with you, or they want to check 641 00:39:46.889 --> 00:39:51.090 out the service hub or they want to check out hub spot worse some places 642 00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:52.960 that people can connect with you and the work that you're doing. Yeah, 643 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.159 so if you want to get in touch with we have loves talking to you 644 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.039 guys, especially if you made it through the entire podcast. Let's definitely talk. 645 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:00.960 Follow me on twitter at Red Board, my last name or winked in 646 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.400 easy to find them. If you want to learn more about more about the 647 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.590 hub spost service, then go to help spot on Cam Service. It's a 648 00:40:07.630 --> 00:40:09.710 bunch of information out. Again, be happy to talk to anybody about their 649 00:40:10.030 --> 00:40:14.630 rooms, customers, growing, stealing teams, sort us off or whatever. 650 00:40:14.710 --> 00:40:17.150 I love this stuff and thank you, guys for US awesome and I do 651 00:40:17.309 --> 00:40:22.179 want to double down on what might just shared with you as a listener. 652 00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.420 If you got this deep into the episode, you probably have a ton of 653 00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:29.460 ideas. Mike has just made himself available to you and I'll say it's someone 654 00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:32.340 who does the same thing. Not Nearly enough people take people up on the 655 00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:36.809 opportunity. So I know he sincere about and so if you have some some 656 00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:39.289 ideas or questions or anything, reach out to Mike. Thank you so much 657 00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:43.929 for listening and thank you for your time, Mike. Mass of pleasures. 658 00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:50.320 I hope you enjoyed that conversation? If so, definitely connect with Michael redboard 659 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.719 on Linkedin. You can also connect with me Ethan Butte. That spelled beute. 660 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.559 And if you want to go deeper on this episode or any other, 661 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.039 you can always watch video clips and get summaries, takeaways links out to some 662 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:07.030 of the things we talked about by visiting Bombombcom podcast. Thanks again for listening 663 00:41:07.269 --> 00:41:14.550 to the B tob growth show. We totally get it. We publish a 664 00:41:14.710 --> 00:41:17.190 ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up 665 00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:22.539 with. That's why we've started the BETB growth big three, a no fluff 666 00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:27.059 email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. 667 00:41:27.500 --> 00:41:34.369 Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big 668 00:41:34.690 --> Three